So wait did Obi-Wan vanish as Vader hit him or did Vader actually hit and kill him with the lightsaber?
jedi vanish after they die
except vader and everybody in the prequel
bravo lucas
>>63353071
He died.
Later it was retconned to mean that he became a force ghost or some bullshit.
>>63353071
It was a one off movie, not a planned saga. No one really thought that much about it at the time.
Obi-Wan was a mystical wizard-warrior-monk with cool powers, so he did a mystical wizard thing.
Lucas later said he became one with the force but never really returned to the subject later, complain to him that his mythology makes no sense.
>>63353116
Did you already forget Yoda? He vanishes too.
>>63353102
I think that was done on purpose to show that in twenty years obiwan and yoda had become so one with the force they vanished when they died or were killed and had the ability to speak to those whom were alive in even after death
>>63353152
I was talking in the context ANH, Obi-Wan surviving as a force ghost was a later retcon. So it made sense for Yoda to do it as well in the later movies.
>>63353102
Only jedi who know how to do it can do it, and it's still a mysterious practice because Vader is just kinda like "what the fuck" and steps on his clothes trying to figure out what happened to his body, because he never saw it happen before.
The practice of burning dead Jedi is supposed to help them become one with the force.
>>63353071
Apparently the left arm is the weak spot on a jedi, considering Obi Wan vanished before Vader got through the arm
>>63353223
Why didn't Annie disappear?
>>63353223
>Obi-Wan surviving as a force ghost was a later retcon
he speaks to luke like 5 fucking minutes after his death
>>63353071
Tfw his force sprint so fast. Hes hiding naked behind a wall somewhere.
>>63353282
He did. He was just alive in the fire. He actually passed out on the Death Star
>>63353285
>force ghost
I don't recall any in ANH, sorry.
>>63353071
Couldnt obi wan theoretically defeat darth vader though? Isnt darth supposedly much worse now then when he was anakin due to injuries? Or did his force powers grow even stronger?
Anakin is a prodigy but obi wan seems tactically smarter. And obi wan wasnt injured so he should have the upper hand?
>>63353332
is there a difference if he is visible or not? he still spoke right after dying
literally a ghost
>>63353332
>Use the force Luke
I guess we were just supposed to take that as Luke's imagination
>>63353282
Luke had to burn his body for him to become force ghost
I wonder if we'll see this happen again
>>63353071
>Obi wan has left the server
>>63353356
>>63353370
A disembodied voice and an actual visible ghost are two difference ideas. The former evolved into the latter during the ESB script writing. And Lucas did wonder if he went too far with it, but he really wanted to bring back Alec Guinness in one way or another. Gotta sell dem toys.
>>63353104
>Later it was retconned
You mean later in the very same movie when ghost Obi-Wan starts talking to Luke?
>>63353071
Can sith become one with the force?
>>63353444
ghosts don't need to be visible
a total retcon would be if Obi wan just appeared in Empire Strikes Back all blue and we were just supposed to accept that, but we were led on with his disembodied voice guiding luke.
Becoming one with the force wasn't a retcon, it's kinda pivotal to the plot of ANH, because otherwise Obi Wan just suicided into a puddle of robes for no reason.
>>63353457
everyone who dies technically becomes one with the force, life returns to the ether and shit.
The Force Ghost thing was supposed to be a Jedi exclusive ability, the ultimate expression of their ideology with the force, but the EU makes Sith force ghosts appear too.
>>63353524
>Becoming one with the force wasn't a retcon
Cool straw man, Ahmed.
What it means "to become one with the force" was a retcon though.
>>63353352
Vader > Anakin on Mustafar
but Anakin uninjured would have been stronger than Vader or Sheev
>>63353594
I don't understand your point then,
does him appearing as a blue ghost really count as a retcon?
He still communicated to luke after dying in ANH.
It's not like they re-edited ANH to have his blue ghost appear.
>If you strike me down I shall become more powerful than you could ever imagine
Idk I think he planned on force ghosts or something of the sort
Wasn't it sort of obvious that there would be a sequel with Vader flying away like that?
>>63353784
Sequels were not that common and at the time they didn't plan for one.
>>63353636
Obi wan wrecked him though, he was too arrogant, plus obi wan knows all anakins strenghts and weaknesses. Or atleast he did.
And surely obi wan should be stronger now, despite age?
>>63353636
He's definitely not as good with a lightsaber, but he doesn't really need to be. He owns a galactic army, a space station that can destroy planets, and mandalorian armor.
>>63353636
Misread your post as vader>obi wan on mustafar.
Nvm lol
>>63353831
>mandalorian armor
but there's no T on the face
>>63353729
>does him appearing as a blue ghost really count as a retcon?
Technically, yes, but it's minor and not really a problem. There a ton of more retcons between ANH and ESB that are far more interesting and actually can change the way you look at the movies.
The initial question was about what happened to Obi-Wan. He became one with the force, but what it meant wasn't really fleshed out until later since no one expected for Star Wars to last past the first movie.
>>63353828
Well it seems like in the original trilogy that being one with the force (Yoda) doesn't exactly equate to becoming a stronger warrior. Yoda appeared to simply be a teacher to make Jedi one with the force, which was better clarity and peace of mind. So Obi Wan getting older wasn't much of a help in his fighting abilities when it came to fighting Vader.
>>63354122
Check out the lore before Lucas went full prequels.
>>63354194
Certainly a lot better than the whole lolforcesensitive shit.
>he is a teacher, not a real Jedi
Don't really get this though.
>>63354295
Football coach are usually incapable of actually playing football decently
>>63354295
He wanted Yoda to be Buddha I guess, guess he forgot Jedi are a quasi-miliatry monk order though.
>>63353370
Yes, we are.
>>63354295
because at the time all Jedi were supposed to be knights
Yoda was not a knight
>>63354324
>>63354329
That makes sense and everything, but it just seemed like being a Jedi went beyond all that stuff and you could technically be one even if you weren't a combat fit humanoid.
Well, it still works I suppose.
When will people realize all of star wars is retarded not just the prequels
Back then every single force user became a ghost not just ones who knew the ghosting technique
So now who the fuck taught Anakin to be a ghost? Isnt that kind of fucked up that Quo Gon and Yoda didnt get in contact with every single other Jedi after discovering the secret instead of only going to Obi Wan? These arrogant pricks literally taught Anakin how to force ghost in the mere minutes between him turning good and then dying, but Qui Gon couldnt tell Mace Dindu?
STAR WARS IS RETARDED
>>63354331
>fedora tippers are so against spiritualism they literally can't understand ghosts in fake fantasy space movies
>>63353071
he struck him in the midichlorians
>>63354424
It's true, but like Lucas says, since Yoda does not actually fight anyone, it makes no difference for the story (well OT that is).
>>63354329
not every Knight Templar was an armored knight, some were bureaucrats, bankers, accountants, etc. I don't see why the Jedi order couldn't be similar, especially with members who are too old to fight
>>63354454
See, you start off by saying it's not just the prequels, but your issue with the movies is exclusively only because of prequel shit.
>>63354479
I think we all get that, the problem is that because Yoda is shown using the force, in fact, better than anyone else, it's a bit jarring.
>>63354456
Ghosts aren't real, they can't be real in movies.
>>63354549
how can movies be real if the force isn't real
>>63353116
You're right but the whole point of this scene was different. Lucas actually planned Obi-Wan to return in case sequel will be produced. So he made some cheap ninja trick of him disappearing, leaving his robes. On episode V he was supposed to be the one who teach luke about force and how to become Jedi. But than Lucas decided to put more aliens in movies so he made Obi-Wan dead for good and create Yoda as Jedi master. It all worked out in the end but Obi-Wan disappearience has absolutely no point and stupid. So he came up with Obi-Wan being "one with the force" bullshit. There're tons of Jedi in EU and prequels/clone wars who died and none of them vaporized like that.
Not to sound like an edgelord but I really hate the Jedi. The only Force Ghost thing has always struck me as selfish as all hell. What right do these fuckers have to imprint their consciousness on all of the Force and all of existence for eternity? Accumulate enough Force Points and you can learn the Force Ghost technique! Why dont they go out and try to teach it to the common man instead of staying all reclusive in their Temple? Fucking bastards
>>63354596
> Lucas actually planned Obi-Wan to return in case sequel will be produced.
>http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Splinter_of_the_Mind's_Eye
>During the Mimban duel, Luke tells Vader, "I am Obi-Wan," which could indicate that Luke's prowess against the far more powerful and experienced Vader was a result of Obi-Wan's Force spirit flowing through Luke during the duel.
Don't see it, looks like Obi wan actually possesses Luke, in the fail-safe shitty sequel that never happened. Weird as fuck either way.
>>63354596
the prequels and most of the EU all came out after ESB though.
Why didn't they do the disappearance thing again? Isn't that more of an issue with the creators of the new shit for not thinking "hey maybe it would be cool if we elaborated on that or did it again"
Can you really fault the original for being stupid by citing future works for not following it?
It's not like ANH and ESB just came along and disregarded the EU and prequels to have a guy disappear.
>>63354546
I guess the Jedi Knights were originally supposed to be the armed branch of a larger organization. That way you could have Jedi and force users who belonged to a different part of the order and trained with the force, but weren't saber-wielding knights
>>63354723
>Can you really fault the original for being stupid by citing future works for not following it?
That's what annoys me about Star Wars fans the most. Can't stand people what complain about the OT not matching the lore of the PT, like it somehow makes the OT "worse." Lucas' ineptitude is the only reason for those conflicts.
>>63354686
Imagine for a second what the force ghost of a common man would do.
The Jedi do it to pass on important information for the help of everyone.
Also
>Imprinting their consciousness on all of the Force
Says who?
>>63354723
Ok so how come Vader does not disappear? His body was set on fire by Luke. Why he does become one with the force and appear as force ghost at the end of ep.6? This shit makes no sense stop making it sound like there's other reason behind this other than being lazy. He was not suppose to be dead permanently but Lucas came up with Yoda and said fuck the old man Obi-Wan.
>>63354850
>Ok so how come Vader does not disappear? His body was set on fire by Luke. Why he does become one with the force and appear as force ghost at the end of ep.6?
Because story reasons. Lucas never cared enough to make a super autistic universe with well thought out and explained lore.
Vader turns to the light, he is saved, and he shows up as Force Ghost like the other two guys, so that we all can get closure at the end of the story. That's it.
>>63354850
>Why do Obi-Wan and Yoda disappear when they die, but Vader doesn't?
Because he was not dead at all. He had just fainted. Luke actually killed him when he set him on fire.But that's just a theory,a game theory! XDD
>>63354893
If the theory about becoming "one with the force" is valid, Vader after turning to light side should vaporize like Obi-Wan and Yoda. He does not for some reason. He was 100% ready when he died. There's no reason why he did not vaporize. Obi-Wan disappearience is just cheap, lazy trick.
>>63354987
Perhaps Luke setting him on fire was supposed to help him along his way to becoming a force ghost.
By having his body burn up it disappears like the others.
They did suddenly make that a Jedi tradition in later things.
>>63354987
>Obi-Wan disappearience is just cheap, lazy trick.
Yes, but no one expected for this franchise to actually be a hit and get past the first movie, so they have to work around it later.
>>63355057
True and I agree.
Hovever I absolutely can't stand when some people say it all makes sanse and was all planned by Lucas because OT is flawless and godlike.
No. It wasn't.
>>63354686
>Why dont they go out and try to teach it to the common man instead of staying all reclusive in their Temple?
muh midichlorians
>>63353116
But at the beginning of the movie, Obi Wan chopped off the arm of one of the aliens at mos eisly cantina. Obviously he had to have vanished for a reason and not some bullshit "durr lightsabers were meant to vaporize their oppenents until lucas decided he wanted to chop luke's hand off in the sequel"
>>63354987
little flashlights erupting laser beams that suddenly stop at a certain distance was a cheap trick too, but it was fucking cool and people liked it.
Sound in space is a cheap trick too.
The bad guys having an invincible super base that can be destroyed by firing a torpedo into a tiny hole was a cheap trick too.
>>63355112
>Hovever I absolutely can't stand when some people say it all makes sanse and was all planned by Lucas because OT is flawless and godlike.
I'm with you, it pisses me off too. It was all made up as he went along with it. I mean, the fucking Rule of Two was invented by Lucas when he starting writing the prequels, and it was hilarious how it fucked all the EU that came before it, kek.
>>63355131
I don't claim Sabers vaporize humans on touch, just that what happened with Obi-Wan wasn't thought out and planned in relations to the other movies very well.
>>63355112
Nobody has ever really thought that the series was all planned from the beginning.
People constantly talk shit about the Vader reveal as clearly not even making sense in it's own movie because of his conversation with the Emperor.
What the fuck is your point? That if someone didn't flawlessly plan out an entire trilogy of movies and decided to change things and introduce new shit along the way then that person is a shortsighted fool?
If you planned out an entire fucking trilogy and made all of the movies exactly how you planned them out even if you come up with better ideas later hen your movies are going to fucking suck and then you're the fucking retard.
>>63355288
>Nobody has ever really thought that the series was all planned from the beginning.
Not only has Lucas spread this lie for decades, there is a good deal of autists that get mad when you point out it's not true until this day.
>>63355147
That's something different. There's absolutely no explanation why Obi-Wan decided to pretty much get himself killed by Vader. I remember watching it as a kid and like WTF is this bullshit why he did that.
It's like Luke suddenly grow to the size of Galactus, pick Sun and throw it like a ball. This shit is too crazy and makes no sense. Especiallu that we saw that lightsabers can't vaporize people/aliens few scenes earlier in the ep.4.
>>63353309
>>63353813
>Sequels were not that common and at the time they didn't plan for one.
That is incorrect. Lucas planned for one, but they wrote the movie to be a stand alone in case the movie wasn't successful enough to warrant a sequel.
>>63355332
The novel wasn't necessarily going to be a sequel, he just wanted to keep the option open.
If you read it it has very little relation to Empire Strikes Back.
>>63355325
True, even if he knew he can't win and was just delaying, there was no reason to give up at the moment he did. Could have given Luke and Han a few more seconds to get to their ship first.
>>63355332
This.
Obi-Wan was supposed to be Jedi Master in ep V. But than he came up with alien Yoda in his place and made Obi-Wan dead for good.
>>63355332
Right, but the one that was written was a low budget cluster fuck they could do for pennies.
>>63355429
You got a source for that claim?
>>63353636
Ability doesn't mean shit without wisdom, and Obi Wan had that in spades. There's a reason he didn't kill in RotS and then ANH
>>63353116
I kinda remember Obi-Wan saying "If you cut me down I shall become more powerful than you can ever imagine". maybe he was referring exactly to that.
>>63353750
If more "more powerful than you could imagine" translates to watching Luke get naked in the shower then yeah, totally went as planned.
>>63353071
Obi-Wan died in that cave and was a solid form representation of himself through the force. That's the secret that Qui-gon taught him and Yoda.
Obi-Wan and Yoda were long dead before the OT even begun, and only stayed alive through the force in order to see their mission through of training new Jedi to kill Sheev.
What makes less sense is Vader becoming a force ghost after he dies.
>>63355684
Redemption.
Remember OT Vader didn't kill a bunch of kids.
>>63355325
It's not like everyone in the movie sees Obi Wan get vaporized and think "yeah thats normal lightsabers do that"
Luke thinks hes gone for good, but he's really far away and didn't see the whole thing.
Vader was up close and seemed confused about what just happened, he even steps on the clothes.
The movie didn't suddenly decide "oh by the way people just disappear thats like a normal thing"
It was supposed to be a weird moment, you were supposed to be wondering "wait, what happened to Obi-wan"
They went through several ideas after the fact of what it could mean, if your not satisfied with the explanation they gave then whatever. But it wasn't some bizarre student film "I just discovered italian experimentalism" bullshit.
>>63355768
Yeah but he still wouldn't be able to turn into one since no one taught him how to. I doubt Sheev would've
>>63355977
Back in the OT, becoming one with the force, is what happens to Jedi that die, or something.
>>63355977
Maybe Obi-wan taught his spirit after he died.
>>63355977
Maybe there was some secret to becoming a force ghost that he didn't know about until he sacrificed himself, who knows. Don't overthink it.
>>63355325
I think it was powerful. And since he knew he was going to lose against vader anyway,
he showed him the true power of his enlightenment/the light side.
To send a message or maybe try to evoke something out of anakin.
Imagine being crazy fuck gonna kill some buddhist monk, and before he dies he does some peace shit and floats in the air a bit.
>>63355641
Fack, this actually makes a lot of/more sense when you think about that scene.
>>63353104
>>63353448
literally like 15 seconds later
>run, Luke, run!
>>63353370
It was probably him remembering Ben telling him to do that on the Millennium Falcon
>>63357510
He was clearly hearing it like it was literally speaking to him
>>63353424
>xXxLEGITxPOD_RACERx420xXx [Light Saber] xxObi_Wanna_Smoke_Kushxxx
>xxObi_Wanna_Smoke_Kushxxx has left the server
>xXxLEGITxPOD_RACERx420xXx: lol fukin scrub
>>63358351
dat anakins player name =D
I don't know how in the Plinkett review they thought that was a good meaningful fight to bash the phantom menace. It was awkward and it looked like Vader was taking it easy on an old man. and then he dies in such a ridiculous way
>>63358822
does anybody die in a lightsaber fight in a dignified non-ridiculous way
>>63353071
If I were vader I would have cut off his limbs and make him suffer. Too kind of a death really.
Anakin returning as a force ghost was shit, he obviously never learned the technique while being alive do theresno way he could have returned
>>63360366
>emotional ending that hammers home that Anakin has returned to the light and got to rejoin his good friend Obi Wan in the force, while watching his son go on and succeed where he failed
>complete shit because I'm an autist who needs the magical energy binding everything to be based on concrete rules like my RPGs
Qui-gon teaches Yoda and Obi to become one with the force. He trains them as a force ghost.
Obi becomes one and finds true balance and opts to do it at that moment as to save Luke from the bitterness and corrupting power of revenge/vengeance
It's why Yoda and Obi both disappear.
>>63360366
in the OT there was no technique to be learned you could just as well assume all jedis become forceghosts
>>63360473
Who taught Vader?
>>63360579
He found peace and balance as he was dying, but freed from Sheev's grasp.
>>63360653
But who taught him a technique that was only known to dead people at that point?
>>63360706
I think what you're mistake is thinking that disappearing on death is the only way someone who dies can become a force ghost.
You only instantly become a force ghost when you reach enlightenment.
Qui gon didn't disappear when Maul stabbed him but he eventually discovered how to live on through the force after his death.
Anakin was probably helped along the way after he died.
Were talking about a scene where you literally see blue magic ghosts appear and you're trying to apply non-spiritual realistic logic behind it.
>>63360706
It isn't a technique that has to be taught. Qui figured it out all on his own. Anakin did too.
>>63360706
Qui gon achieved balance and became a force ghost after death. He couldn't and wasn't able to initially. He further trained Yoda and Obi who found balance while alive.
No reason Anakin couldn't find balance in his final moments or post death.
>>63360832
>You only instantly become a force ghost when you reach enlightenment.
How come only 1 guy in the PT reached enlightenment but everyone in the OT did too?
>>63353294
Made me kek more than it should have.
>>63360955
because the kajillion jedi in the prequel trilogy were not relevant to the plot?
How do you know they didn't? Just because they didn't all show up and haunt Sheev doesn't mean they didn't eventually reach enlightenment later on.
>>63361099
Prequel defenders are qt3.14
Show a better lightsaber battle than this: https://youtu.be/l-L2K2f2YWM
Pro-tip: You can't
>>63361247
I'm not even defending the prequels, the main point of the argument is ROTJ
>>63361279
But the prequels are irrelevant to the events of ROTJ.
>>63361359
If you'd like to know how the conversation got to that point you can read up the chain.
>>63358932
Neeson
>>63361433
why make the character of Qui-Gon-Jinn? Plenty of people have probably made that argument, but I just don't understand why they didn't make episodes 1-3 about Obi-Wan Anakin's mentor through Padawan through Knight, and then Anakin's eventual fall to the dark side. It's such an eady premise
>>63361722
why make the character of jettster dexter
>>63361822
Because he was the key to all of this.
>>63361822
>>63354511
the problem is the prequels and the OT are completely incompatible
They hit a few beats perfectly, if you took the march on the jedi temple scene out of context and showed it to someone before PM came out they'd be hype as fuck, but made so many terrible decisions that it's almost impossible to feel like these two stories took place in the same universe.
>>63353309
HUE
I don't think Lucas thought nerds would be scrutinizing his work diligently for the next 40 years after he made the first movie
