What went wrong?
absolutely nothing
They tried to make it like star wars
>>62730121
Nothing.
>>62730121
mental illness
>>62730121
the Wachowski brothers aren't good directors
They got lucky with the first film. They stole from good films, and their limited budget meant they couldn't do every retarded thing they wanted.
Most of the budget went towards Lana's hormones
I thought the third Matrix was the worst one.
>>62730218
>Wachowski brothers
WOW, shitlord
>>62730218
>stole from good films
like what?
in b4 ghost in the shell
things
Nothing. It got better. Only newplebs who parrot decade old memes still say it's bad.
>>62730121
nothing. the sequels were spectacular. interestingly, People are stupid, as are you OP, and you're incredibly deaf and apparently you lack common comprehension. Morpheus himself said that most people would not accept the real world. Destroying the machines would have freed everyone from the Matrix. Zion, was the only place on earth that could sustain human life at that time.
All of you apparently wanted some kind of Messiah to usher in the kingdom of man, or some such shit.
tl;dr, fuck off, no seriously.
first matrix film, if you watch it today, doesn't look dated at all or, if it does, still somehow visually aged better than the sequels.
The first indication that the matrix reloaded went wrong was what they call the burly brawl. They wanted to push the envelope further than the tech would let them, and when it looked like shit they didn't care. It looks like a poorly produced PS2 game. It's ridiculous that the burly brawl was considered acceptable within the same movie that gave us the freeway chase. They're night and day in terms of quality.
The other problem was this: reloaded and revolutions started as one movie that was just too long, which they split into two movies that were too short, which they "fixed" by adding a bunch of garbage disguised as exploration of the philosophy of the series. These movies shouldn't drag, but they do. Its almost as if they took the ideas that weren't good enough to make it into the first movie and stuffed them into 2 and 3. Completely bizarre when you consider the Animatrix had some pretty good stories.
I still do watch them and consider them entertaining but it's clear the quality takes a dive. It's almost as if the Wachowskis were unprepared for the first movie to be successful and to be quite honest family if you look at the films they've made since, it's pretty obvious the Matrix was their one good idea.
>>62730607
Lana pls go
>>62730663
no seriously, i've spent the better part of all of 12 years reading and listening to all of the complaints as to why the sequels were garbage and effectively it only boiled down to, 'NEO WAS SUPPOSED TO FREE HUMANITY FROM THE MACHINES AND BECOME TECHNOMAGE DEITY GHANDI."
You cannot, and i fucking double dare your gay ass, list one thing wrong with the sequels.
go ahead, prove me wrong.
>>62730635
bullshit. list the problems man, stop jerking around. list, systematically, what was wrong with the story other than you wanted neo to do something other than become a bridge of peace between two species.
>>62730121
>actors whose names above pictures aren't theirs.
Fuck I hate those posters.
>>62730121
NOTHING ESSENTIAL.
The first film showed us a magical world where anything could happen and it was a bunch of really tight set pieces. We loved it.
The second and third film shut down all the possibility and it wasnt tight. They didnt have enough space to tell their story. Great set up, terrible execution.
>>62730346
akira
>>62730121
No more than what goes wrong on any film. People's trouble with the Wachowskis is mostly an end-user problem. I mean, sure, they only wanted one sequel and had to stretch the story they had in mind into two movies, but that was WB's fault for forcing that on them, and doing both simultaneously was a struggle for all involved. Beyond that, people rejected them any number of reasons not related to their actual quality - they disliked how ethnic Zion was shown to be (a sign of the endemic racism in American society, if anything), they disliked how the Machines were humanized, and how it didn't end with humanity standing triumphant over the "evil" AIs, they didn't like that Neo & Trinity died, because the hero & heroine are "supposed" to live happily ever after. In short, they didn't like having their expectations challenged by what they were ultimately presented with. The Wachowskis, though? They don't care. They've outright said they don't make their movies with the intention of being appealing to the masses, they make the movies they want to see made.
>>62730121
it gave me a latex fetish
>>62730869
The first film showed us a new realm of possibilities then it showed a protagonist who decides just how far down the rabbit hole he was willing to go. Know thyself, is what the Oracle said to Neo and Neo, like any true Protagonist was only willing to go so far. That ability to copy himself onto others....where do you think that ability came from Smith was using?
>>62730869
That's kind of the point you dumbkek. As Lana said in an interview, the first is very typical, but then Reloaded deconstructs and assaults everything we thought to be true in the Matrix not just for the viewer but for the characters (when Neo learns about the purpose of the One and the true fate of all the chess pieces in this game). The third is about creating meaning, once again not just for the characters but how we the viewer take part in that meaning.
>>62730121
The extended the story further than was needed. Neo discovering that he was The One implied that the Matrix would be fixed. He destroyed the smith program, then they decided that he actually hadn't so he needed to do that again, over two movies. It was an unneccessary story. There wasn't anything wrong with the execution of the sequels, but the sequels themselves were not needed
>>62730812
This reply didn't refute anything I listed as an issue, and it dares me to attack a premise that the main arc of the plot is somehow flawed. The main arc of the plot is fine. Reloaded is actually the weak link in the series. It shows you things that are better left imagined. It wastes time introducing characters you couldn't care less about (all of the Merovingian's goons). Revolutions is actually pretty great but halfway through it they annihilate the point of the climax in Reloaded.
Again. Plot is fine. The second act just fucking suffers
>>62730121
They changed the tone too much.
In the first movie, Neo is basically a hacker/revolutionary fighting "the man." In the sequels, things have taken on a much more religious/mystical overtone. Neo is more like a monk or holy man, both in terms of his behavior and his attire. Even the soundtrack was changed, from edgy 90s metal to some sort of overblown operatic techno bullshit.
>>62730891
exactly. the sequels were masterful and there really wasn't anything wrong with them. and people's problems with it wasn't in the film's production, script or shooting, and was nothing more than their preferences.
INCIDENTALLY, ONE OF MY FAVOURITE SCENES FROM "THE MATRIX REVOLUTIONS" IS FROM NEAR THE ENDING, AFTER THE SENTINELS LEAVE, AND THE FOCUS IS ON "MORPHEOUS'" FACE; ONE CAN SEE HOW AT THAT MOMENT EVERYTHING FOR WHICH HE HAD WORKED, EVERYTHING FOR WHICH ALL THEM HAD STRUGGLED, SIMULTANEOUSLY COLLAPSES INTO AN INSTANT OF ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY: IT IS THEN THAT HE DIRECTLY EXPERIENCES THAT THE PROPHECY WAS TRUE, THAT "NEO" WAS INDEED "THE ONE", THAT THE WAR WITH MACHINES HAD ACTUALLY ENDED, AND THAT ALL THE STRUGGLE, ADVENTURE, AND TRAGEDY, ENDURED UNTIL THAT MOMENT, WAS AND HAD BEEN ALL "REAL".
OPTIMAL PERFORMANCE BY LAURENCE FISHBURNE.
>>62730937
You sound like aneophyte in the mystic order of the redpill.
>>62731010
that's rather retarded man, that's like you complaining about Angel's (Good bad and Ugly) goons being forgettable from the Good bad and Ugly movie. You're entitled to your opinion and stuff, but don't dare say it's the movie.
>>62730891
>They've outright said they don't make their movies with the intention of being appealing to the masses, they make the movies they want to see made.
So why didn't they give refunds to the millions that thought the sequels were shit? Since they only care about the art.
>>62731055
Looks like your cruise control button is stuck, tripfaggot.
>>62731055
Mine too, anon, mine too.
>>62731052
Wait, All seeing eye of the Oracle from the first film wasn't a dead give away to the mysticism that was sure to come? And Neo miraculously rising from the dead wasn't some hint either? Damn man, talk about lack of comprehension.
>>62731070
we do as we do until some one better qualified comes along.
>>62731093
Conveniently ignored the fact that Revolutions doesn't build on Reloaded so much as it invalidates the point of it entirely therefore reminding us how painfully unnecessary it was to split into two movies. There wasn't enough story for two films and we got a bloated mess for it.
>>62730635
Good post.
>animatrix hints at intricate, efficient, diverse machine society
>dude giant face made out of metaphorical ants lmao
>generations of machines improving eachother due to a war with all of humanity
>ayy sentinels kill you will a million paper cuts
I honestly think they did a great job with the sequels considering what they had to work with. Its really sad that an original and interesting idea in hollywood gets shit on because it went over the heads of the lowest common denominator who only saw it because guns and violence.
Sure, philosophically, it wasn't anything groundbreaking(not counting The Animatrix), but it was certainly more cerebral than anything Nolan, Bay, or Cameron have made combined.
Dispute these points while keeping in mind that they are facts.
i don't get why all the other smiths in the final revolutions fight just stood and watched
>>62731171
wait? how was revolutions invalidated by reloaded again or vice versa? how was the movie a bloated mess? You people! Just say it didn't go the way you wanted and leave it at that, but to pull stuff from your butt and say this or that..jeez man. I don't like trannies or Larry in drag either but the movies were something special so don't go off on the movie in calling it badly plotted and stuff because of it.
>>62731333
IT FLEW OVER THEIR HEADS MAN.
When the Architect said that the process though upgraded your consciousness you remain irrevocably human. He was talking about the process of giving NEO direct wifi access to the source. before Neo sensed the source as a wifi component could 'sense' sources of wifi connectivity, but he actually gave NEO access (the key that only the one can go through). Neo once given the key had direct access to the Source. When he went up into the stars and arrived somewhere else other than the plane of the Matrix. The Architect was at the Source.
Neo couldn't sense his connection because at the moment his eyes was his main 'sensor'. When he lost his eyes he could see the source. Even earlier, when they were running from the Sentinels, Neo began to 'sense' the source in machines. Shit was so freaking cache.
>>62731333
I think the sequels would have been better if they were made separately. If you didn't know, they were filmed simultaneously.
>>62731364
If you'd remember, Smith said, "That's why the rest of me is just going to sit back and enjoy the show for we already know that 'I'm' (Oracle Smith) the one that BEATS YOU!"
>>62731450
But did the machines have fiber optic?
>>62730121
>What went wrong?
The Wachowski Brothers can't write a story to save their fucking lives is what happened.
The Matrix was a plagiarized Dark City mixed in with cyberpunk shit and a Jesus allegory. That's what drove the plot in the first movie and the sequels just could not compare.
>>62731451
Can you list one thing wrong with the sequels other than you wanted a different outcome for the heroes?
>>62731478
And he would have, but Smith didn't know that "Beating" Neo was the losing move because he was tapped into the source.
>>62731483
at that's relevant because?
>>62731495
More conjecture I see. bring it on, mopes.
>>62731478
it's been so long since i watched it, i thought it looked silly regardless
>>62731508
Neo stuck in an imaginary subway. Completely pointless.
>>62731377
>Neo opts to damn humanity to save one woman and the redemption of his choice is she ultimately lives
>trinity dies in pointless action sequence halfway through next movie and could have been anyone in the process
Reloaded would have been amazing if he set the war in motion rather than reset it in order to save her and then she dies in Reloaded anyway. It would have set the tone for Revolutions immaculately.
>>62731451
Honestly it worked better in that regard because a story of that scale would definitely suffer from consistency issues had there been some large break in-between filmings, with studio-meddling etc.
Personally for me I think the main issue was marketing, people going into both movies expecting more kung-fu and gun-slinging were always going to be dissapointed considering the Wachowski's visions were much grander than that.
>>62731526
>bring it on, mopes.
Go watch Dark City sometime, shill.
The first Matrix is overrated and the sequels are underrated. They're all equally serviceable movies but nothing great.
>>62730346
Ghost in the Shell
Dark City
They Live
Paprika
Alice in Wonderland
Fist of Legend
Tai Chi Master
The Killer
>>62731584
There was plenty of Kung Fu shit in Reloaded. Tea House fight, the opening Agent fight, Neo vs. Smith hoard, Morpheous on the truck vs Agent.
Hands down though, the love the Chateau...it's my favorite fight scene ever.
>>62730121
they ripped off ghost in the shell and couldn't figure out what to do after that
>>62731495
>>62731592
dark city came out literally a year before the matrix and matrix was probably in production before it
and you probably didn't even know about dark city until after you watched the matrix trilogy
>>62730121
The Second Renaissance should have played in the theatres right before Revolutions so people didn't get too WTF
>>62730121
Addition of new and boring characters
Meaningless and uninspired CGI action scenes
I just remembered that war scene against the machine, there was that one guy in the robot who kept screaming like a dumbass during the whole thing, that's how cringeworthy the sequels are.
>>62731519
As the Oracle said, "One cannot see beyond the choice they don't understand." Smith didn't understand why he assimilates NEO, only that he does and for him, it was inevitable so understanding the why didn't mean jack shit...And sadly something inside him cried caution when he called Mr Anderson Neo then had a momentary lapse in awareness. Then and there he should have known to leave well enough alone, but that hatred over took him, and to add Neo agreeing with him about the inevitability of the imminent failure inherent in all human flesh...Smith couldn't resist but to rape NEO.
>>62731537
Oracle Smith had the vision of him raping NEO. So Oracle Smith was all wet for that ending and only that ending.
>>62731566
I mean it's not like NEO came to the conclusion the Oracle was hoping for, for 500 years or anything. But yeah, her planned worked out perfectly.
>>62731552
I mean it's not like Neo wireless started jacking into every port he could have or anything...I mean the Architect gave him access to the Source, he hacked the connected sentinels through the source shorting them out, so at that point his subconscious mind reached merged with whatever port that was open. At that time, through an open port that Rama Kandra and his wife and their daughter Sati had just jumped into, NEO also, albeit unwittingly, jumped in there as well.
>>62731658
Oh I agree and the fight scenes in the sequels far surpass the ones in the original in my mind. All I'm saying is that most audiences went in expecting ONLY fight scenes and instead got a lot of talking, something that is bound to anger the average Michael Bay/James Cameron fan who wants only the most minimal amount of plot explained to them before a car or a bus explodes and people start using their fists.
>>62731592
it's a knock off of dark city how? and i saw dark city in theaters and on dvd when it was released some time later. and i watched it only twenty plus times, although i haven't watched it of late. But i'm sure there's nothing of NEO in Murdoch Other than the protagonist coming into his own.
>>62731674
>matrix was probably in production before it
Yeah, that's why the rooftop chase literally used sets left over from Dark City's production, because The Matrix totally came first.
And anyone who went to blockbuster would know about Dark City, as it was regularly in stock.
They stole the script to the first one. Something that isnt uncommon in hollywood. Then when they tried to continue on their talentless asses failed miserably.
>>62731624
>taking ideas from serveral films means ripping off a concept
>>62731775
opinions are like shit holes, everyone has one and poo gas not to mention, shit, comes out of it.
>>62731674
Yeah, I bet nobody in Hollywood ever saw pictures of the Dark City set design while it was in production. I heard that "movie rumors" were invented by AICN. It's not like these movies aren't shot in the same part of town either, right?
>matrix was probably in production before it
Even if you weren't the one here inventing conjectures, The Matrix already being in production is all the more reason why they would've ripped off Dark City.
Holy fuck, you're deluded. Take your lips off Larry's fake labia and watch
>>62731814
>the matrix already being in production is all the more reason why they would've ripped off dark city
what?
>>62731792
ripping off entire scenes, iconic images, and fight choreography 1:1 from several films means ripping off that film.
Look at what happens when the Wachoskis try to be original: we get Jupiter Ascending and the Matrix sequels. They're not good at what they do unless they're stealing from other sources.
>>62731814
Dark City is great, but there is nothing to discuss about it. Every concept it has is handed to you on a plate before the credits roll. The Matrix has more ambiguity, which is why it's still talked about...not to mention it being more fun to watch.
I liked The 13th Floor better than Dark City.
>>62731890
OMG did Cloud Atlas the Movie rip off Cloud Atlas The Book?
SOMEBODY CALL A LAWYER
>>62731890
I'm still waiting on proof and comparisons as to what exactly was ripped off.
>>62731898
if anything the messiah motiff was done better in David Lynch's dune so I could see people saying the Warchowski brothers ripped that off but Dark City? damn. 13th floor was a much better movie.
and i loved Dark City.
>>62731898
I never said Dark City was great.
Worldbuilding is not "ambiguity" either.
>>62730121
They stopped stealing from Grant Morrison.
Personally I think they fucked up from the start when they introduced the concept of the one. Really what it should've been was a story about how one wakes up to the real world and learns that he can break the boundaries and rules of the matrix if he went far enough. After that they shouldve done a prequel combining all of the elements of the animatrix showing how man fell to the machines. The sequel then would have been a massive uprising and war against the machines both in the real world and the matrix.
>>62731925
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrW3E6BN5Dg
I don't know why I'm bothering to post proof and comparisons, I know you're just going to deny it anyway because you clearly can't be reasoned with.
>>62730121
We grew up
>>62731950
I said it was great, and the ambiguity in the Matrix comes from the dialogue not the "worldbuilding"
>>62731988
That would probably work if after the movie, they did a TV series with long ass episodes. Not sure about the prequel and sequel bits.
>Seeing this movie for the first time
>Get to this scene
>Remember how Cypher warned Neo earlier that when he sees an Agent, he better run
>Oh fuck is Neo gonna run?
>He looks to the stairs
>Then turns around
>Oh SHIT
>Cue fifteen minutes of cinematic BLISS
I wish I was a kid again sometimes. There was nothing quite like this movie at 10 years old.
>>62732037
The dialogue is spaghetti-spewing tryhard zendeep bullshit. It sucks and is not why The Matrix is still talked about. Nobody went to these movies for anything but the special effects and gunfights.
>>62732072
"He's starting to believe"
holy FUCK
>>62731988
and that's why this movie wasn't meant for you. See everyone, that's how you voice your opinion, "PERSONALLY". He didn't like it because he wanted something else. He's one who doesn't like mayonnaise, ketchup and hot sauce on his fries.
>>62732017
Saw this before, and you're so full of shit it's bloody well smelling all the way over here. The Choreographer and kungfu guy was the Choreographer on DOZENS OF KUNG FU FILMS.
>oh no, they used Philip K Dick's ideology, oh knows.
>Oh no, they are able to download shit into their minds. Oh know, they have a bug inside his head, I mean belly button.
>Oh know, red pill.
who has the time though, just so you no you're full of shit.
I can do the same thing anon, i can give you a joggle of information and data and imagery and vids and dare you to make another Matrix.
"I heard motherfuckers saying they made HOV then I said, 'okay then, go make another HOV."
you have the formula, so i double dare you skeezes, any of you, do what they did, make another Matrix that's as brilliant, if not more so. Larry may be an abomination in drag but fuck me he and his brother are the awesome for having done what they did.
>>62731333
>I honestly think they did a great job with the sequels considering what they had to work with
Which is their own wrongdoing, you fucking imbecile. First of all they pretend that they had planned to do three movies from the get go which was clearly a lie. And then they fuck up everything with the sequels, storyline, dialogue, action, you name it, all of it down the drain. I don't know what idiots like you get out of being retrospectively contrarian, but here you go. You got a reply. People back then said that those movies were bad and everybody forgot that they even existed.
>inb4 bait=I was just pretending to be retarded
>>62732168
I never said I didnt like it. Im saying that I didnt like the concept of the one.
>>62732168
The Wachowskis said they were influenced by kung fu films and Japanimation. So much so that they showed studios Ghost in the Shell and said "We wanna do that for real." You can hear them say exactly this on the special features for The Matrix.
:^)
>>62730121
Well. The first one was kinda.. instructive. People noticed that. So the gov stepped in, using one of its cinema-affiliated fronts. But the Wachovskis put up a fight. Sort of. So they got Reloaded, but the gov got Revolutions.
In case anyone felt bothered with the sudden change of theme from 'rebel, hell yeah' to 'cooperate with those in authority'.
>>62732230
so you have no real argument other than you didn't like the tone of the sequels. because that's all i see there, you having a problem with the sequels tone because you wanted something else. but don't you fucking dare say the movies were less because of some bullshit reason that has nothing to do with what or how it was shown but has everything to do with how you feel about it.
list everything wrong with the sequels that isn't, "he went right when he could have gone left. because were it me, I would have gone left."
>>62732274
oh....even clearer to me it all is. and in some respects others didn't like the concept of a man who was a bridge for peace instead of a conqueror.
it's how the Pharisees wanted Jesus to be this conquering king who would make them fellow priest of his and not some humble guy who preached of God's kingdom coming to cure humanity problems sometime in the future. They wanted someone who could deal with the Romans and make them heavenly celestials they saw themselves as.
>>62732279
Tell me something I don't know but to say they're unoriginal is complete bullshit. and again i say, can any of you did what they did.
>>62732305
I don't think governments have a department of movie theme corrections
you must be thinking of jews
>>62730789
nigga
srsly
what are you doing SENPAI
>any criticism gets explained away with
'Just admit you wanted the characters do something else'
Be quiet Larry. No need to get that upset over your shitty movies.
>>62732378
if you know they ripped off films and you know they said they ripped off films why are you still defending their originality?
>>62732378
>defeating straw men left and right
Are you the lost twin brother of Abatap?
Because you can barely repeat the arguments of the posts which you are replying to. You just regurgitate your one and only answer
>you wanted something else. Lalala I can't hear you
>>62732427
>>62732440
>>62732431
>>62732427
>>62732431
any minute now and some one's gonna post that everything wrong with the matrix sequels bullshit, in 3 2 1. But seriously, the sequels were great and no one can suggest otherwise. you can try and all but they were still great.
>>62732440
they didn't rip off films. they simply used ideologies and at most, a concept here or there. fuck me, you people.
here we are though, 2016, can you do something better? of course not, because you and they are full of shit, and forever more will be full of it.
The Matrix fell prey to the same thing that made Star Wars PT and The Hobbit shite: continued over-dependence on special effects. Just like said other trilogies, there are multiple moments in Reloaded and Revolutions where the CGI was pushed beyond the reach of the technology at the time. The result is phony, "liquid-y" looking composition.
This is unforgivable imo, because bad special effects break immersion. They ruin climactic moments.
I never once heard someone mock the effects in the first film, because they weren't over the top nor applied outside of their technological reach. People were laughing at the special effects - and discussing them afterward in the lobby - on the opening nights of the sequels. JUST like Attack of the Clones and the Hobbit.
>>62732507
>can't even get the current year right
How mentally unstable are you?
>>62732507
>they didn't rip off films.
So when you're at your school for the developmentally challenged and your teacher asks you to write an essay, do you write it by copy/pasting sentences and paragraphs from other essays, or did they teach you that was plagiarism?
>>62732168
man the way you try to get your point across is annoying as fuck
kill self
>>62732507
now this is dissonance
>>62732378
Yeah so basically what I'm saying is that it would've been better if he was shown to be someone who was finding his way in the real world and the matrix and that his abilities were the product of his heightened enlightenment. Like how in one of the scenes Morpheus said "some rules can bent others broken", Neo realises that since its all completely a computer simulation, all rules could be broken. Once again this is just my personal opinion. I still like the movie.
>>62732541
He doesn't get to use pencils, he could harm himself or others with it. Only drawing stories with giant crayons.
>>62732507
Instead of asking others to constantly change their wording for arbitrary reasons how about refuting those points?
>>62732502
straw man my ass, list, in sequence, what was wrong with the movies. other than your opinion as to where the protagonist and the heroes should have gone instead of where they ended up.
>>62732515
the sequels were brilliant and the effects passable for what they wanted. how would you have done that scene and not have it become physically dangerous and incredibly expensive not to mention a choreographic nightmare?
>>62732535
fuck man, it's more 2016 than 2015.
>>62732541
you're talking out of your ass again. what exactly did they plagiarize again?
>>62732546
no. and because it annoys you i'm just gonna respond now.
>>62732549
maybe.
fuck the kung fu because the old Choreographer who did all the films listed did it, so of course he'd use his movies as inspiration, you moron, and what wasn't his is of no consequence because kung fu films are notorious for recycling fights.
Philip K Dick analogy is bullshit because everyone and I mean, everyone uses Philip K Dick, and Dick didn't mind that one bit. It's like how Star Trek inspired the cell phone, MRI and mp3s to name a few.
>>62732558
Architect explained that well enough, The one's purpose was two fold, he was to become a recipticle for all of that rejection, and once balanced, all that rejection would be countered and a solution for each found, then he was to 'die' once more and have his solution to the errors put forth which would balance the equation and the matrix would be rebooted.
He'd be reawakened in which he'd choose five males and i think seven females and go into the world to rebuild zion. having his source access he'd hack any machine needed to aide in the rebuild of zion then he'd plant the prophecy of the one and die eventually.
>>62732637
i can make a statement, here's one. Barack Obama is a faggot. See, I said it. Anyone could say anything. Now where's the proof to verify what was said?
>>62732756
>>62730121
Nothing really. I think the movies were true to the vision the Wachowskis had for them, but like several of their efforts since, it's a vision that nobody wants to see or hear.
The Matrix is ironically a very blue-pill story; it's about a guy who's slowly dying in a cubicle who gets swept into a grand adventure where he's the chosen one and he can learn kung fu in two seconds instead of through a lifetime of effort. He can dodge bullets and jump around and punch people and he doesn't have to worry about getting through traffic to clock in on time at work. It's a great fantasy for the audience that in real life is still stuck in those systems, you get to imagine rising above it all for the duration of the Matrix; it's really encapsulated in that final shot of Neo flying off. Hell, he even conquers death in that movie. Just one good note after another, a typical hero's tale.
But of course, in the sequels its different. In the second Neo learns that he's not special or even a real rebel, he's still an unwitting part of the system. And then in the third he finally makes good on being a martyr, for a dubious future where machines are still alive and well. Not quite as feel-good, and I think the audience reaction comes out of that. As far as story elements go it may have been the only thing to do; if people like the first one for being a story about a man fighting against control, what can you do for the second movie other than put him in another cage to break out of? But of course people didn't like that because it cheapened the ending of the first.
I'll say right out that I kind of enjoy them, because I think the sequels have a better sense of the sacrifice necessary for rebellion and change, and the true, horrible extent to which control can be established over people. It's not as easy as just realizing what's going on, which is what the first movie depicts. But clearly people aren't as interested in the Wachowski's true colors.
The sequels set up a bunch of interesting concepts and doesn't pay any of them off in favor of endless Zion scenes.
If the rumors about the scripts for 2/3 originally being one are true it makes perfect sense, there's an INSANE amount of filler in both. You could cut almost every Zion scene and it wouldn't matter one bit to the story, the characters or the themes.
Also they fucked up Neo so bad in the sequels if I didn't know better I'd say it was written by someone who never even saw the original. Neo's self-actualization into a god got turned into a minor kung-fu upgrade and flying.
>>62732756
>other than your opinion as to where the protagonist and the heroes should have gone instead of where they ended up.
You go first by quoting posts here word for word which demand that and have only mentioned that as a negative point. Go ahead I'll wait.
>>62732756
So seeing as you can't form a coherent thought without resorting to one or two rage-filled non-answers. Why are you constantly talking about eating shit of homeless people and paying them to let them be your dicksucking practice dolls?
>>62730121
The problems with the movie is that at first it looked as though it was going to be the Techno New Testament Bible. Then later on it became Techno Freemasonry.
However there was virtually nothing wrong with the first one.
>>62732072
I was fortunate enough to read the earlier 1997 version of the script before I saw the movie. The ending to that one had Neo running from agents in a car chase before finally escaping Smith after Smith shot him to death. That scene concludes with Neo just giving Smith the finger before escaping.
Then the movie blew me the fuck away with it's new and improved ending. I ended up seeing Neo stop bullets in midair, have god-like powers, kick the living shit out of Agent Smith, and then dive in him and blow him up from the inside out.
It was like waiting for cheese and crackers but instead getting a Thankgiving dinner in return.
>>62732507
>here we are though, 2016, can you do something better?
stop embarrassing yourself on the internet Kevin
>>62732875
So when an agent is appearing somewhere, the take control of somebody's mind in the matrix right? What happens to that person? He/She died, right? So what happened to all those people who were taken over by Agent Smith and who exploded at the end?
>>62732869
this nigga knows whats up
Cgi aside, the trilogy is very good the whole way through. It's just that The Matrix is the only good stand-alone film.
>>62732884
you first. you tell me as to why the films sucked.
tell me as a critic would.
>>62732961
and yet you can't say what's wrong with the movies other than, muh feelings.
>>62733157
Dead.
One of the interesting things about the original is how Morpheus uses actual terrorist tactics to get what he wants. He flat-out tells Neo that they'll have to kill anyone they get into a fight with because they may become an agent at any point. Our heroes aren't so heroic, they're desperate people in desperate times.
>>62733177
>no u
Plenty of people gave you a variety of reasons none of which boils down to
>why didn't the characters do something else?
You address those first without deflecting to this nonsense and then we'll see about my issues with the movie.
>>62732756
>the sequels were brilliant and the effects passable for what they wanted. how would you have done that scene and not have it become physically dangerous and incredibly expensive not to mention a choreographic nightmare?
I would not have produced the scene as is. I would push to the very edge of the newest limitations of technology, acknowledge that kewl grafix are not more important than good movie making, and adjust the shoot to those limits.
The action sequences in the first film are the best not because of their scale, but because they are amazing, awe-inspiring, and still acceptable to the naked eye.
>>62733234
Wasn't Morpheus's goal the destruction of the machines? What would that accomplish anyway?
>pulling the plug on billions of people on literal life support
Great idea
>>62730121
Matrix was a fluke. The Hackowskis by accident made a great movie.
The sequels were just cashgrab flicks, and they represent their actual directing skill.
Then after that Larry stated taking hormones and all their movies are even worse.
>>62733245
Also the effects were NOT passable as is in the sequels. Passable =/= audience laughing at them and discussing "how fake that looked" after the film. Fact.
>>62731624
>Paprika
besides the fact that it came literally two years after the last matrix movie, i don't really see any connection there
>>62733177
Okay, baby, I'll spoonfeed you
Reply to only this part of one of the earliest posts in this thread without claiming that this guy just wanted the characters to do something else.
Here is the post and part which criticizes the sequels
>>62730635
>The first indication that the matrix reloaded went wrong was what they call the burly brawl. They wanted to push the envelope further than the tech would let them, and when it looked like shit they didn't care. It looks like a poorly produced PS2 game. It's ridiculous that the burly brawl was considered acceptable within the same movie that gave us the freeway chase. They're night and day in terms of quality.
>The other problem was this: reloaded and revolutions started as one movie that was just too long, which they split into two movies that were too short, which they "fixed" by adding a bunch of garbage disguised as exploration of the philosophy of the series. These movies shouldn't drag, but they do. Its almost as if they took the ideas that weren't good enough to make it into the first movie and stuffed them into 2 and 3. Completely bizarre when you consider the Animatrix had some pretty good stories.
>>62733382
People have that list ready to talk shit about inception is my best guess as to why paprika is mentioned
>>62732515
>>62733367
Yup, people who actually went to see it opening day remember the laughter during the terrible CGI action scenes. And the hilarious banter in the lobby after the credits about which ps2 game looked the most like this garbage.
>>62730789
idk the 3rd one was boring as shit.
>>62733153
in lieu of an actual film critique all you have are quips?
>>62733238
no they gave me their feelings. any of you have yet to critique what was wrong with the film like how many has critiqued what was wrong with jupiter and the fag one, atlas.
none has said what's wrong with the sequels other than, "he didn't do what i wanted him to so it's all garbage."
>>62733245
so your feelings on it is that you prefered a waltz and instead got Metallica's bleeding me. duly noted.
>>62733328
more conjecture i see.
keep em coming guys.
>>62733698
>some weird comparison to God knows what
>talk about feelings even though nobody mentions anything like that
Cmon man, you are not even trying to refute anything. Still your 1 and only reply
"U wanted something else STFU, LIKE seriously"
>>62733628
3rd one is my most favorite one of the lot and here's why,
At the beginning we're given a reason to care about the machines. Yes, we care about the Oracle but she's but one. We were introduced to Seraph but he's a body guard, and being formerly an agent of the Nirvana Matrix, he's a Seraphim type Agent whose purpose it is to protect 'what matters most.' In times past what matters most to him was the Merovingian, which might suggest that in the earlier days when the Merovingian behaved within the constraints of the system, he was to be protected. When he behaved differently he was no longer Seraphs ward.
But the third film gave us the adorable Sat, and the even nicer, Rama Kandra and his wife, Malla who struck me as very machine like, very cold and distant to those who are not her own---a typical wife perhaps. i can go on and on but there's only so much time in a day.
>>62733426
the movie doesn't drag, it builds. the burly brawl was perfect. and he needs to describe the garbage.
more conjecture. but what we need is data, specifics.
>>62733698
>so your feelings on it is that you prefered a waltz and instead got Metallica's bleeding me. duly noted.
I'm not "feeling" anything. I stated an objective fact: that audiences worldwide found the special effects to be cheesy and laughable.
You are the one feeling that this, on account of what I can deduce is rampant fanboyism on part with Prequel apologists, is dismissable. I suggest you take notes on your hypocrisy and learn to not apply double standards. You're the nerd version of #Mizzou.
>>62733886
>the movie doesn't drag, it builds. the burly brawl was perfect. and he needs to describe the garbage.
Amazing rebuttal. I think we're done here. The nurse will bring your meds. It's nap time for dysfunctionally retarded people such as yourself
>>62733811
i want you to tell me what was wrong with the sequels as it happened. tell me why, was the opening sequence wrong? why was the second act wrong, and the third and so on. what was wrong about the sequel to the sequel, revolutions. play by play of course.
not, muh feelings as to why, but genuinely, what was wrong with it.
I have no idea why one autist sees it as his duty to defend these flicks. Bu there is more wrong with the sequels than just the plot:
>Overcomplicating the setting
The "Midichlorian" mistake, they tried to explain too much shit that didn't need to be explained. The focus moves from the world of the matrix (that the viewer knows) to some alien wasteland of the future that is hard to care about. Problem is neo has no power in this world so how does he remain relevant?
>Poorly produced CGI action scenes with little relevance to the story
The choreography on the fight scenes was great in the first film, so they felt like they needed to include the same material in the later films but it was forced and idiotic since they already established Neo as some unbeatable demi-god.
>Shift away from the philosophical dialogue/themes
The secondary characters (Morpheus, Trinity, Agent Smith, oracle, asshole who tried to kill everyone) all had unique takes on the setting and each influenced Neo's thoughts in different ways. In the sequels, they all became dumb neo side-kicks.
>Poor acting
Probably the fault of green-screen filming/directing rather than the actors but Christ the 3rd film especially is cringe-worthy.
This is just off the top of my head.
>>62733916
No. Because you demand aa telephone book worth of details, while you juat answer like a toddler.
I'll just get your answers ready in your stead
>you;x is perfect shut up.
>you:y is not bad, explain to me in extreme detail as to why it's bad
>you:z was universally loved nobody cares about your feelings
>you:you expected good movies and instead had to jerk off homeless guys and eat their shit and sperm. Enough with your feelings. I love the latter part btw
>>62734007
Lemme get the autistic reply out of the way
No. Shut up.
They're perfect.
You wanted neo to be cyberpunk Jesus. Sorry that you didn't get what you want.
Expecting steak at a garage sale festival is your fault
>>62733886
>but what we need is data
>asking for data when discussing opinions of an art medium
>LITERAL textbook autism
>>62733895
you mean 40% of people didn't like the graphics? duly noted. what about the plot, the pacing, the characters and how their solutions and eventualities were conveyed. Did you see any character development or lack there of?
data anon, i must have data!
>>62733915
okay since you're being a shrewd and i think i know what you're getting at lemme address it.
the Nebuchadezzar is back at dry dock and Commander Lock is pissed. he sends in his senior security to address Morpheus (see:arrest) But Mufune knows better and simply request Morpheus pays the Commander a visit.
Neo, rasta, Trin and Morpheus are on their way to their quarters, at least Rasta, Neo and Trin are, Morpheus is on his way to Locke...continue
(we're still building you see.....)
continue....Neo wants to know what's OP and in so many words Rasta tells him, Niobe was with Morpheus the idealist but finding him a bit too rough around the edges she settles for the much safer and homely, although incredibly boring, Locke. Locke knows this so he's mad and Morpheus is all to aware of it but is more concerned with the future of Zion and the human race.
The spat Morpheus and Locke has is one of a theist and an atheist. Locke, the atheist, is, in his mind, the realist and the others are idiots who believes in supernatural bullshit that can't be substantiated, at least not by Locke's estimation (prophecy of the One). If you remember, the last one took people from the Matrix, prophesied he'd return and by doing so, created a kind of religion.
>impossible man who controls machines like they were his toys, uses said machine to create zion and then pens a prophecy of his returning and upon doing so, bringing forever peace to zion.
(continue..)
>>62734092
then i'm an autist, go figure.
>>62734201
>retelling parts of the movie with autistic background brouhaha
The fuck are you doing?
You are just talking about something else.
How about refuting his points with data and not just your feelings?
>>62734201
>40%
You are aware of the fact that 73.2% of all statistics in casual conversation is made up on the spot, right?
>>62733915
(continued)
The impossible man from a hundred years before chose the door on his right because his love was for humanity and apparently he hadn't anyone else, other than the entirety of humanity to worry about.
In the finality of the third film, and by finality I mean the last scene, it is implied the entire thing was all Orchestrated by the Oracle.
Hence, the entire, "That's a very dangerous game you were playing." quip by the Architect was simply him seeking to chastise the Oracle for playing said dangerous game. But what exactly was the game?
The Balanced Equation is all the rejection incurred by the 1% of people in the matrix, is countered and resolved by the one who were to 'die' after going through the door on the right and have his code, disseminated and the prime program reinstated or at the very least, used to reboot the Matrix, having successfully countered all errors and the equation within him, thoroughly balanced creates a stronger upgraded Matrix with the patches being able to contend with the further rejection of those of the 1% at that time. In time however others reject the Matrix and their number is usually no more than 1% or 6.5 million people.
The one however, or our ONE, because he's a forever alone never kissed neck beard virgin autism suffering technophile, Trinity, someone who he probably had a chub for and was all to happy Trin was a girl, was immediately smitten by the dark haired girl.
At this point I'd dare say the Oracle, Mother of Choice, gave Neo and Trin choices, or lack there of that reserved the two of them for each other.
So by doing so, she gave Neo, the austism suffering social pariah loner, some one to love other than altruistically 'everyone'.
(continue...)
>>62734301
I know a fuck tonne of Chinese watched the hell out of this movie..so..
>>62734260
he said the movie was bloated. bloated where is my question. he said it was bloated and it dragged on. rather he cited some one else's post.
dragged on where and was bloated where?
>>62734435
>>62734201
>copy-pasting your self-made novelization of the sequels
Thanks Spergly McAutism, I needed a good laugh after work.
>>62734531
we're looking for the bloat anon, the bloat and how the sequels dragged. got carried away i did with the film's story the one seen and the other that was implied, beautifully. but we're chosing the bloat and the bits where it dragged. i read comments of it slowing down almost to a crawl. don't see it though. maybe you can help me out. i am after all, an autist. and you are not. so you being normal could help me cordon off the bloated scenes.
>>62734531
do you not agree the sequels had a shadowy other that hung about it like that wraith thing in that marvelous game i love playing, middle earth?
we saw the sequels and another shadowy explanation hung in the back ground.
like that scene in which we were educated to what Sati's powers could be----
>>62730121
All of Lana's talent was in his penis.
>>62731619
>They're all equally serviceable movies
Fuck no.
>>62734744
you're right, the sequels were better.
>>62734803
Go away, Lana.
>>62730121
2 & 3
>>62730635
So true, they directed this netflix original called Sense 8. It's made unwatchable with forced LGBT shit
>>62734862
make me.
>>62734947
Okay, you degenerate freak.
>>62735008
is that all you have senpai, muh bbc takes on a much weaker friend? awww. did your pee pee get hard just now senpai when you saw the big black strong bear beat up on a small little feminine man. did it make you sweaty in your briefs, senpai?
the matrix is a good film, i don't care what anyone says, whenever i go back and watch it i'm always surprised at how well it holds up
>>62735063
>that projection
>>62735085
Not if you've seen a couple of jet li and ang Lee movies. Stealing cool momenta from other movies is lame. Especially the so-called amazing and original fighting scenes
>>62735240
>thinks the fighting scenes are the best parts
>>62735240
>watching nip movies
>>62731890
>ripping off fight choreography 1:1
Oh, you're full of shit. Yeun Woo-Ping did the choreo and he's got a trademark style where he uses the same moves in every movie. I guess you could complain he's ripping off himself but that's stupid.
The Matrix is obviously a derivative movie but it's all pastiche and zero ripoff.
>>62735321
never feed the trolls, mang! never!
>>62730121
They tried so hard to be non-cliche that they went full retard instead. They wanted to act like a simple "robots bad, scrappy underdogs rise up against the evil robots, save the day, save humanity, get the girl" plot was too pleb and beneath them and it was all REALLY much more complicated and nuanced than that, so we ended up with navel-gazing shit that makes you not give a fuck about anything.
>>62730121
1) They focused too much on Zion and not enough on the matrix
2) too much CGI
3) terrible music
>>62730218
> got lucky with the first film
It's some of the most ingenious directing of all time. the settings, shot selections, action sequences, bullet time, etc...
>>62730635
I totally agree.
They should have done a single sequel. And worked to use as little CGI as possible and really make every action sequence look great and every piece of dialogue valuable.
>>62735446
>that song at the end of one of the films that literally says WACHOWSKI WACHOWSKI WACHOWSKI
