Swan Master Race edition
Mk3 list building: http://conflictchamber.com
Warmachine/Hordes Books, No Quarter, & IKRPG
textuploader <dot> com / 5wm4h
PP Youtube (gameplay tutorials, tournament coverage, and announcements)
https://www.youtube.com/user/PrivateerPressPrime
Latest Errata:
until errata release check:
http://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?254662-Current-Errata-Threads
Steamroller Rules
http://privateerpress.com/organized-play/steamroller-tournaments
The Giant List of Podcasts and Blogs
http://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?76379-Warmachine-Hordes-related-blogs-websites-and-forums
Table of contents for all NQ issues
http://www.privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?4313-Table-Of-Contents-For-All-No-Quarter-Issues
Lexicanum Iron Kingdoms Lore wiki:
http://warmachine.lexicanum.com/wiki/Main_Page
MK3 RULES:
http://files.privateerpress.com/allnewwar/Prime.pdf
http://files.privateerpress.com/allnewwar/Primal.pdf
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B5OHGgAx7q66NUdvUFp3LWVQRlE&usp=drive_web
Warmachine/Hordes Army Creator (WHAC) .apk
http://charbon-et-charentaise.org/blog/content/app-release.apk
Mk3 faction deck spoils (sans trolls):
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B5OHGgAx7q66NUdvUFp3LWVQRlE&usp=drive_web
>>48286618
updated tier list
Casual reminder:
KHADOR STRONG
Thoughts on this list?
too much infantry?
Better with another caster?
>>48287162
Why no Behemoth. There's like no reason not to take him now.
>>48287645
Behemoth is the new Stormwall, he's a Juggernaut with an second good initial and two Destroyers standing on his shoulders that somehow gained Powerful Attack.
>>48287672
So you don't want to use him because he's good?
Also he's a far cry from being Stormwall levels.
>>48287684
I think these are different posters:
>>48287162
>>48287672
I can tell by their writing style, their position in this discussion and by having read a great many posts in my time.
Behemoth's probably a bit better than the Stormwall ever was, aside from having fewer boxes and no Lightning Pods. But I guess that's an okay price to pay for being 17p cheaper.
>>48286674
So how did legion go from okay to good?
>>48287913
Two part answer:
(a) People started playtesting the hellmouth.
(b) It turns out most of Legion's stuff in Mk2 was so broken that even if you nerf it, it's still ridiculous.
>>48287899
I think you're overstating how good Behemoth is. He's still most of a casters WJ points for something that can be disrupted or knocked around and dies to a properly applied heavy in one round.
>>48288531
Isn't there also that zany pLylyth list with two minion warlocks that's been making waves?
>>48287899
>Behemoth's probably a bit better than the Stormwall ever was, aside from having fewer boxes and no Lightning Pods. But I guess that's an okay price to pay for being 17p cheaper.
Hard to make a comparison between two jacks at such different price points, but there's no doubt that Behemoth is very good.
Not sure about "Mk2 Stormwall Good" though. That phrase can be translated as "So good it makes all other jacks in the faction obsolete". I don't think the new Behemoth quite fits the bill. He does a lot, certainly, but he's still got plenty of competition.
>>48288548
That falls under line item (b), I think. It's basically just a pLyl assasination list.
You could have actually run that list (or something very close) in Mk2, but eLylyth Double Ravagore needed to get knocked down a notch to make room for it.
>>48288540
I don't agree. If you commit him late and just have him shoot 2 fully boosted AoEs every turn until turn ~4 none of those things you mentioned should threaten him.
>>48288562
>So good it makes all other jacks in the faction obsolete
If he wasn't FA:C I'm fairly certain most Khador players would take 2.
>>48288579
Don't count eLylyth out yet, either. People are down on her because she's different, but she's still got a game.
>>48288580
>If he wasn't FA:C I'm fairly certain most Khador players would take 2.
It's an interesting point, but Khador is now a faction with a lot of really aggressively priced jacks. Uncle Karchev's Discount Warjack Emporium is going out of business and EVERYTHING. MUST. GO. (except spriggans, for some reason)
Behemoth costs about two "regular" jacks, or one and a half of most of the other high-end options... plenty of interesting choices there.
reposting classic /tg/ because Khador Stronk!
needs to be updated, though.
>>48288709
Oh definitely. It's just that he shoots as well as ~2.5 jacks.
>>48288817
2013 is not "classic".
>>48288855
>2013 is not "classic".
It is if you're three years old!
>>48288848
>Behemoth costs as much as two jacks
>It's just that he shoots as well as ~2.5 jacks
But he doesn't fight as well as 2.5 jacks. He still trades like a single Jugger (+10% maybe), so he has to justify that extra 12 pts on the way in... which is possible, but not automatic. So that's where the tipping point is.
>>48288855
it was an instant classic, regardless of date.
>>48288961
>He still trades like a single Jugger
Does a single jugger kill an average heavy on average dice without caster input (aside from 1-2 focus)? Because the Behemoth absolutely does without any trouble.
>>48288967
It was some mediocre meme that you chose to resurrect because to you ALL CAPS is the epitome of humor. Nothing more.
>>48288990
you seem butthurt.
>>48289120
Oh come on. You get called out on your lame shit and "U JUST BUTTHURT" is the best you can manage? At least put forward some effort.
>>48288990
>Does a single jugger kill an average heavy on average dice without caster input (aside from 1-2 focus)? Because the Behemoth absolutely does without any trouble.
Sure, the behemoth hits a little harder. Acknowledged. But it doesn't hit enough harder, or survive enough longer, compared to a Juggernaut to put you significantly ahead in the piece trade.
And it's not like Khador casters are exactly hurting for melee jack buffs.
>>48289476
It hits a damn lot harded. Add a buff and watch a colossal vanish.
Also, the difference between taking out a heavy in an activation and leaving it on a few boxes is huge.
>>48289562
We're probably going to be seeing a lot less colossals in the meta compar9to MK2, so I'm not sure that's a major selling point.
>>48286618
Some warmachine stuff was on clearance at my LGS, so i picked up a convergeance battlegroup box. New to the game, where should i go from here? A friend of mine got into hordes recently and theres a small community that plays
>>48290210
Colossal lists are still a thing, but yes, not as much as in Mk2. That still leaves the Behemoth as a heavy that can one-round any other heavy without a dmg-buff and can shoot as well as some colossals.
Does anyone have the Flashpoint novel they can share? Skullisland literally won't accept my credit card
About how long does it take for PP to get back to tickets on their mispack/replacement site? I filed one five days ago and I haven't heard anything back yet, not even a message confirming they'd seen it.
Anyone playing the journeyman league?
>>48290547
Usually only a couple of days, though with the new release it could be longer. If you haven't heard anything at all I'd try emailing them, sonce it might have slipped through the cracks.
Tired of listening to Cryx players wet their pants, going to play Cryx as my new faction.
Looking at pDenny and pGore although I really want Denny3 to work because of the model.
I'm not sure she's viable this edition, even with Grave Wind/Shield guard--thoughts?
>>48290279
Best bet for expanding from the battlebox without spending a ton of $$ is to grab a multi-part heavy warjack kit, add another caster, or pick up a few solos.
Getting a heavy kit, and magnetizing the arms on it and the one that came in your battlebox, and you'll have a lot of options for how to configure your battlegroup.
Adding a caster will totally shake things up, since each supports their army differently. Axis and Lucant are probably the easiest to move to after Syntherion.
Solos are great for spending those last couple points or filling a specific niche. Convergence doesn't really have any bad options here, but the Steelsoul Protector or the servitors are probably the easiest to slot into any list.
Playing Convergence, I'm really feeling the lack of TEP - I miss the colossal too, but the TEP is just too amazing.
>>48291705
Sorry, you're gonna play Venethrax.
>>48292875
pDenny is still the best Cryx Caster. Hands down.
>>48292875
>>48292972
pDenny is really strong, even though her feat took a hit. But the new Lamentation... holy hell that spell is vicious. Venethrax and Shade1 are both rocking it (and unlike mage Blight, you can actually cast it and not immediately die). A lot of hordes lists, in particular, just have no good answer for a 14" Lamentation bubble.
>>48293083
I agree.
I'm not sure who in Cryx can handle Khador/Ret though. I just don't see it yet but there has to be a good matchup there.
Hordes, I think Cryx has that covered.
>>48293273
Oops, didn't meant to click post yet..still had thoughts.
So I was thinking Denny3 maybe as Mortality can be spread pretty easily for her and that can wreck any unit/jack...but damn she'll just get shot to death by Sloan.
So don't know who the answer is in Cryx yet. Maybe Termintard .
So If I want to run a merc jack in Protectorate but I don't want to shell out the 12 to 18 points for the devil dogs, do I want shaw, dirty meg or gastonne?
I've been thinking about picking one of them up for friendly games.
So I just looked at Deneghra1's card and what the fuck how is this remotely fair and balanced?
>>48293916
Because she's a shit polishing caster, and now Cryx infantry is pretty shit.
And hey, she was worse in MK2
>>48293685
Gastonne obviously.
>>48286674
As a Minions (Gators) player, I'd like to think that we're upper mid-tier, if not low-top tier. We don't have anything gamebreaking imo, but one of our big problems (ARM cracking) simply isn't an issue anymore.
Pigs also got better overall, which is a plus for the faction as a whole.
>>48295165
honestly if i were to rank them in any order in tier, it would be
minions
cryx
trollbloods (which is closer to skorne than to cryx)
every faction got powered down in some aspect, but there is a subtle power bump between warmachine armies vs hordes armies, the buff to jacks swung the pendulum a little to far to their side.
legion was a God tier army in mk 2 they still have alot of their former capability despite the power increase to jacks, this is why they moved up a tier (also the hellmouth is fucking bonkers).
On the flipside the other god tier army of mk2 was nerfed into the fucking ground. Not saying they weren't broken but it seems like the over corrected the issue. Their premiere infantry unit lost Tough and stealth and their line infantry were also nerfed slightly. Coupled with some of their jacks already having pseudo power up, they didn't really enjoy the power bump that most warmachine factions got.
Were the full faction decks ever leaked? Specifically Khador, Legion, Mercs? Well I guess minions too but I can't remember any that work with legion.
>>48295848
yea, in may. But the link is in the op
>>48295865
Wow, had to have looked over that link at least 3 times. Forgive me anon, for being a water head and all.
>>48286674
I think minions and cryx should get bumped up. Idk if legion belongs up there and I don't think CoC is popular enough to be up there.
I'm not sure if Cygnar belongs that high either
>>48291745
Can you run two warcasters in a game? Is it a smart move? And im guessing the big box comes with all the arms as opposed to just the arms that came in the starter, so with magnets i have 4 options as opposed to two? Also, are any units worth it for convergeance? Or should i stick to jacks and solos?
>mfw Skorne is top tier but everyone's too busy spewing epic memes to notice
>>48296059
yes, but not common
its essentially a different format
yes
their heavy infantry is pretty good
only if you want
>>48296064
epic, skorne is top tier maymay, anon!
>>48296059
Technically you can run as many as you want. You only use 2 warlocks at higher point costs like 100+ games, but no one ever plays them because they're just clusterfucks that take 4 hours to play. You can use journeyman warcasters in your normal games though. Assuming they're the same as lesser warlocks, it's just a mini warcaster solo that you give jacks to and works the same way your normal warcaster works.
>>48295997
i'd be interested in why you think that.
But i also don't think a factions popularity should dictate its tier rating, due to the high buy in to a especially for a new army with few releases.
>>48291705
Denny3 is fantastic and, imo, one of the strongest casters in the faction. This is the list I have been running with some success. However, I find she is a very technical caster to play. Not very forgiving in the order of activation department.
Hey, I'm new and making a Circle list, but don't care for the starter box.
Is Mohsar good? I'm bad at understanding if things are trash.
>>48296224
Thanks anon for the reply.
Talk out your list for me. What does this do--and what does it pair well against? Thanks again.
>>48296169
Minions are amazing. They have access to an excelent gunline, great beasts, fantastic threat ranges with Arkadius
Cygnar are good, great even, but I think they are easier to counter than people think.
Regarding popularity and CoC. In this case I think it is something to be taken into consideration because of it niche status. Its a limited faction, with a relativly small base. I think there are only 2 people in nor cal, a fairly good sized meta, who field them competativly.
My point, if a faction is strong but no one plays them- does the faction matter in standings?
>>48296088
Heavy infantry? Sorry to be a scrub, but im new to the game, like the persecutors?
>>48296098
Are they under solos or do you use the warcasters? Once again sorry guys for being so new. Just trying to figure it all out.
>>48296596
*perforators
>>48296480
Mohsar is okay, but not great. He's got some good spells and a feat that's good against hordes and mediocre against warmachine, but his pillars can now be charged and he's geared towards army support, which doesn't mesh with how much work Circle wants its warlocks to be doing now.
>>48296743
Thanks for the insight. Do you have any personal recommendations?
>>48296775
Right now, pKromac and pKrueger are good options, since they're fairly simple and good at what they do. I've always been fond of the Kayas, but they're mostly upper-middle class warlocks as always. Tanith from the starter box is also good, I've been coming up with more and more ways to use her. People also really like the Baldurs, but haven't played with them yet in the new edition.
>>48296589
I think its important that people who are thinking about getting into the game, know that they are a good army. Especially since popularity is a location based factor. What's popular in NorCal could be different than in seattle.
minions are a great army, they are my main hordes army, they just lack the ability and tricks that major factions possess. Being mid tier doesn't mean they are terrible, but you do have to play slightly harder against other armies. You can't just throw a character jack into the enemy lines and call it good.
As for cygnar, alot of people make them a big deal, They aren't unbeatable but the changes to the game made them a little better for some people.
Premeasuring is huge, while most top tier players didn't need the help, the majority of players don't have to think and make good estimates on their attacks. Making the faction overall easier to play for most people.
couple that with amazing shooting units and support. The faction got its lower limit of skill range bumped up.
Also the shift to a jack focused warmachine, mean that jack shooting mean a whole lot more, since taking a shot or two at an enemy jack reduces the enemy army by more points than when it was more spread out in units.
>>48296596
yea, their multi health box infantry
>>48296775
im a different anon, but i'd recommend the battle box, its just so cost efficient and lets you feel out the army and naturally try to progress it instead of going in blind.
I just picked up Ret Mk3 battlegroup. How is our new caster? She seems like she's likes Jacks since she can heal and recover shields with her feat. Maybe running 2 Phoenix would be a good combo for her?
>>48296059
As far as Convergence goes, pretty much everything is playable, but it's very caster dependent.
Aurora loves herself some infantry, Axis and Lucant are balanced, Mother can run pure jack, but has some benefits for infantry, and Syntherion pretty much does nothing for them.
>>48296555
In esscence the list sits arround untill its time to win. I tend to play my caster very conservitavly so I dont comit them untill its time to assasinate or score on scenario.
The nyss are there to give the oponent something to kill/snag souls for the trappers. WSC have great boostable stealth guns and pass out mortality/puppet strings. Nightmare and DJ kill stuff/look scary and get filled for free.
The stars of the list are Wrong Eye and Darragh Wraith who together create what I call 'the magical realm' with starcrossed and beyond death.
I'm not sure what I dont drop it into yet. Its preformed well against Ret
I pair it with scaverous and venethrax/lich3
>>48296845
she is indeed a jackcaster and if you can handle a bit of skornagy she works great with multiple sphinges (sphinx), due to thier low point cost to high damage output.
upkeep rhythm of war, cast deceleration every turn, and cast hand of destruction on good targets through a chimera.
>>48293273
There's a simple algorithm for Cryx in the new world:
if !hasStealthHate(army) then
take(BloodWitches + Hag)
else
take(Satyxis+SeaWitch)
>>48293273
>I'm not sure who in Cryx can handle Khador/Ret though
Shouldn't bile thrall, blood gorgers and satyxis make those match up rather easy?
>>48296814
>i'd recommend the battle box, its just so cost efficient and lets you feel out the army and naturally try to progress it instead of going in blind.
I hear you, I just don't like the Orboros box, aesthetically. The only model I like the look of is the werewolf. I'm in it for the golems and such.
>>48296807
Thanks! I'll check 'em out
>>48297113
None of those things survive getting shot by Khador or Ret.
>>48297116
If you're in it for the wolds, you're gonna have an unfortunately bad time of it. They're not great at cracking armor and they're slow. There are three that are worth taking and not even with all casters. Megalith is pretty solid in general, Woldwardens are only really useful with e/pKrueger and maybe Wurmwood, and the Woldwrath goes best with the Baldurs and you kind of have to build your list around it.
>>48297168
>def 16 immune to blast damage
>getting shot off the table by khador
You could also always run an occultation caster
>>48297278
DEF16 isn't enough anymore, not against Joe and Rifle Corps.
>>48297278
Im not the other anon, but against a ret shooting list, def 16 isn't too scary.
>>48297373
pressed enter too quickly.
Rat 6
aiming +2
Deadeye + 3.5
Normal roll of 7
= 18.5 of avg dice
not to mention the same unit that can do that, is also a pretty good melee unit aswell with mat7 pow11 and def/ARM 12/17 base.
not to mention furture sight on the jacks
>>48297113
Running screaming into Khador Gun Corp with Joe = Death. They're fucking dumb.
I just don't know what does it in Cryx. I've been toying around with 3 Bloat Thralls + Coven/Shield Guards
>>48297867
just imagine him screaming, "be like bear, comrades!" and everyone in the unit gaining the strength to beat light warjacks in arm wrestling.
maybe 1 Hjack too many?
>>48297531
That is possible on a single caster that has no way of ignoring stealth.
Your scenario involes an upkeep spell, and almost certainly the unit's mini feat if they are aiming.
>future sight on jacks
let them shoot at satyxis with jacks. Unless its the daemon, but people don't like that jack for some reason.
Also, future sight on jacks is only on one caster.
Sounds like Ossyan booty blasted you
>>48298235
Wait, aren't we talking about Raiders?
Or are you still pitching that Occulation caster thing, when eEyriss is a thing?
>>48298405
>when eEyriss is a thing?
You mean they are placing eEyriss within 5" of your satyxis just to cause d3 damage to your caster?
Sounds like your about to be playing 6 points up
>>48298471
Wait, I just looked up.
Your two Occt casters are the ball and eWho.
And both of them hardcore want that spell on themselves so they don't die to Ret shooting.
>>48298235
I'm on a phone so I can't do meme spoilers, but I am the ozzy player ;)
If Jacks have nothing better to shoot at, then shooting at raiders aren't a bad thing.
Turn one upkeep also isn't bad, neither is popping a mini feat on an equal cost unit
>>48298405
Why are you taking Raiders when Witches are a thing?
>>48298522
I think 3Shade has occultation as well and he is still good
>>48298624
Because the convo was about Raiders.
>>48298624
Why are you talking about witches when blasts are a thing?
>>48298677
They have stealth, and you *can* space your pieces out right?
>>48298660
I really only consider them with lich3. I just can't get into them. Its because the prayers are on the sea witch and not the unit leader.
The witches just have more reliable delivery*
*except v khador
>>48298770
You can try to space things out in your 9 inch bubble but I'm dropping templates on you for days.
>>48298677
Because Retribution is an army feared far and wide for its blast templates
>>48298235
Houseguard Thane lets Riflemen and HRT ignore Stealth
>>48298845
In an ozzy list? Yea.
>>48298858
>Houseguard Thane lets Riflemen and HRT ignore Stealth
Good tech.
Its would be a shame if something happened to it.
>>48298928
Your counter tech is a bone turkey? Lol
>>48298996
*teleports behind u*
*arcs stygian abyss*
psssssh nothing personnel, knife ear
So what are the changes between MK2 and MK3?
Relatively new player here
>>48298928
....if you want to spray guys thats the wrong one
>>48297337
I would recommend bringing Warjacks upfront and infantry as a second Wave against Khador with Cryx.
>>48299188
Lot of balance changes, and some small, but very impactful changes to basic mechanics.
In MK2, Warcasters got a bonus to their ARM for every point of focus they camped, for example.
>>48299479
Is there a list of these changes somewhere?
>>48299494
I'm sure, but I don't know where.
>>48299188
Here are the changes:
Cygnar got better
Khador got loads better, has the best caster in the game, most of the jacks/units are undercosted
Ret--same as Khador
CoC--same as Mark 2 power level wise
Menoth--probably slightly better
Mercs--better overall
Cryx--got kicked in the teeth but I think there is some gold there still. Overall, ouch.
Hordes got fucked over as a whole but faction by faction...
Trolls--lost a lot of their unique play style, will still have competitive and boring lists. Net loss here because of zero creative input
Circle--got hurt bad this edition. I don't see how they compete
Legion--will still have a winning list or two, overall got hit
Skorne---lol! Go read the Skorne facebook page
Minions--the best Hordes faction in the game now
Also, pic related--is Ed Bourelle transitioning? That pick looks like one of those butch Facebook girl profile pics
>>48300074
>Ed Bourelle
he's always looked like a faggot
>>48300074
Any particular reason Hordes got punched in the dick so hard? Or why Warmachines got better in a lot of armies?
>>48300217
Hordes took a nerf to overall fury management, which makes it much more punishing to run beasts hot. Meanwhile, Warmachine got Power Up, which gives a free focus to each warjack that is in its warcaster's control area.
>>48300217
>Fury Management reduce
>Fury stat on most beasts reduced
>Powerup on Jacks now
>A ton of Grev. Wounds in the game now
Question, still have kinda a shitty army for Cryx, what Mercs would work well with them in mk3? Ragman still got his old rules?
>>48300494
Units- nyss, devil's shadow mutineers. Creos with denny1, not scaverous.
Solos-ragmang(always), gorman &saxon still have their uses.
Wrong eye and snapjaw- god like.
End of list
>>48300396
Grievous Wound effects 'jacks now.
>>48301104
Yes but it's harder on Hordes.
Hordes has always been the "we don't have a lot of armor and boxes, but look at the combination of our defense/armor..and we are two Fury away at most from being fresh again".
Glass cannons if you will. So when you remove their spirit and also remove their ability to heal, it hurts a great deal more due to the inherent stat build across each system.
>>48301129
Once a fucking again, Hordes had some of the straight up best heavy defensive statlines in the game.
Don't call them glass cannons when they could deal with shit just as well as warjacks.
>>48300074
>>48300074
which khador caster is best in the game?
>>48301326
Irusk2. He's like pre-nerf Gaspy2 levels of power.
His kit lets him do everything: he gunlines super hard, he protects his troops from shooting extremely well, he's got easy no-knockdown tough, he's got a great feat, and to top it all off, he's great and buffing his troops for melee.
He does fucking everything, and he does it super well.
So how do you play Trolls now? I'm totally uninspired.
>>48301351
None of that is pre nerf gaspy2 levels of power. If you think it is you're a retard that never played, or played against a good gaspy2
Gaspy2 was S tier, irusk2 is A tier
>>48301766
I played against plenty of pre-nerf Gaspy2. Sure, he might not have the bullshit assassination(though the full CRA + FFE Rifle Core shot is pretty nuts against a lot of casters), but he's got everything else.
You can't hide from him, you can't shoot him, you can't even run to engage him.
>>48301613
play Ragnor, Madrak 2, Gunnbjorn and make claims that trolls are fine.
>>48301613
Triple Gargossal with Mountain, Glacier, and Sea Kings.
>>48286618
As a player who is considering joining in, what Warmahordes faction has the most combined bulk and Crowd Control? (or whatever it's called here)
I was looking at the [s]Spanish Inquisition[/s] Protectorate of Menoth for their Choir Boys and just how silly their level of supporting is, but do they have good debuffing skills as well?
>>48301815
why can't i shoot him? Def 17 are very killable. Models behind a gaspy2 cloudwall that killed you if you entered it are much different.
>>48301986
Menoth doesn't have a ton of debuffing, but they have a shitload of control.
Some of the most powerful elements of it got hit in the edition change, but they're still the kings of telling the opponent no.
>>48302000
He doesn't use the AoD for himself, he uses it for the cheap, decent DEF, tough, no knockdown models screening him.
>>48302027
i know, i'm not a fucking idiot. i've played against and crushed him every time. Def 17-18 with no knockdown, tough and blast immunity is nice don't get me wrong. but its super fucking easy to ignore.
all i do is put deadeye on my stealthed def 16 strike force and on my invictors, and with a 50% to hit base, or MUCH MUCH higher on the invictors with a 2 man CRA with re-roll if it misses, do i give a fuck?
don't even get me started on how many ways cygnar can ignore it too, from Caine2 to just abusing electro leaps.
or how about PoM just lighting it all on fire? Unless you're bringing AKs specifically, feel free to clump up in the cover. the blast cant kill you but the fire will.
Gaspy2 pre nerf has excarnate, was hard to kill by himself and had teleport and hellbound to back him up, he had the lethal cloudwall that completely denied LOS to things behind it without a way to see through it. Gaspy2 also had the far better assassination.
there is no way on this earth that irusk2 even comes close to pre nerf gaspy2. its an A tier vs an S tier.
your claim is ridiculous and hyperbolic. basically any solid faction has the tools to take irusk down. Gaspy2 was meta bending good. i can take the vast majority of ret casters into irusk2 and not worry. hows your rifle corps going to feel after a blinding light?
>>48302116
The only thing to conclude from what you just said is that you play against bad Khador players.
>>48302027
What would I be looking for when putting together a PoM 'nope.avi' army? I figure the Choir Boys are a must, but seeing as there are now TWO battlegroup boxes, which one should I get, and what should I be looking for afterwards?
I think the thing that everyone is forgetting about Mk3 is that armies are new skewed towards warnouns. This by itself is a huge buff for some warlocks and a nerf for others, even if spell lists weren't touched in the least. In Skorne you have:
>Buffed
Hexeris1 - More beasts on the table to hit with Vampiric Reaving
Rasheth1 - Our best armour cracker got more targets to crack
Morghoul1 - His feat is now more relevant than ever. In Mk2 his feat was basically useless against Warmachine, but now it's incredible
Naaresh1 - The +3STR from his feat is at its best when you have lots of big things to punch to death
>Nerfed
Hexeris2 - He melts infantry really well, but no one is using it
Mordikaar1 - Essence Blast has fewer targets
Zaal1/2 - They want cheap infantry but cheap infantry is weak now
I'm probably going to try out Hexxy1 and Rasheth as my pairing. Vampiric Reaving against Hordes factions is just brutal, moreso now than ever. And being able to arc node an Obliteration through a Razor Wurm on the other side of the table sounds like a laugh.
Yo what about Circle? Can i run a beast-full list with good old kaya1-2?
Are Constructs still good? Or nerf of Banishing ward did hit Thorle1 (you do realise there will be Thorle2 dont you) too hard?
Oh and not-so-top-dogs. Kromac, Grayle, Krueger, Tanith?
>>48304623
Yes, Kaya can still run beast heavy, you just have to be more careful with fury use. Thorle sucks now for a number of reasons, the banishing ward nerf least among them, and constructs that aren't the woldwrath aren't great. The Kromacs, Grayle, Kruegers, and Tanith are all good now.
>>48305994
> Thorle sucks now for a number of reasons, the banishing ward nerf least among them
Well aside from that he wasnt changed at all.
> and constructs that aren't the woldwrath aren't great
How come? Why lol?
>>48306347
Synergy got nerfed, the Wold Guardian is no longer affected by his feat, Woldwatchers lost shield guard, and the Push power attack was removed from the game.
As for the other constructs, Woldwarden/megalith geomancy now uses the warden's magic skill of 6 instead of its warlock's stat, which has a side effect of preventing the woldwarden/megalith from casting upkeep spells.
>>48306545
They are changing the gaurdian.
Maaan. I hate my new potato camera
>>48303541
Hexeris2 has the everyone is an arcnode now thing, that's a buff to overwhelm the nerf that he is designed to fight lists that nobody plays.
Mordikaar suffers from the changes to revive, but he's skorne's one and only pacman.
Zaal1 truely suffers from losing Union: Ancestral Guardian (can't transfer to AGs now), he could have minimized battlegroup bloat but for that, probably.
Zaal2 suffers for getting his army across the table. Not in the way you think- Immortals are speed 4 now and don't get any kind of deployment bonus anymore. Wait for the Themes (tm).
>>48301351
The truly insidious thing about Gaspy2 is that he warped the game in a way that PP didn't forsee.
Specifically, when you combined him with their Bile Thralls (another PP design failure) you had a module that made slight vulnerability in a single unit (being composed of living single-wound models) into a massive vulnerability for an entire list.
Weirdness ensued.
>>48307534
Yeah, they definatly solved that problem and didn't create any new ones!
>>48307472
Hexxy2's negatives outweigh his positives honestly. Being able to use anything as an arc node sounds neat and all, but the Razor Wurm is what you really want for this, which Hexxy1 can do just fine. Hexxy1 seems much better for generally being a pain to Hordes lists because he can casually put a strain on their fury, whereas Hexxy2 needs to feat.
Mordikaar I've sort of come around to. He can give his entire battlegroup Ghostly, which is fantastic now that you want to bring more beasts. The nerf to Revive is annoying as fuck, but when you're bringing Nihilators and Cetrati you can still tie shit up like a boss.
Immortals have a UA that makes them faster incase you didn't know.
>>48302216
Pick up the mk3 battle box, as it'll give you rules as well as a decent core for the army. Grab a heavy jack kit to magnetize. The covenant of menoth is a big old circle of nope, as well.
After that, what're most interested in playing? Knights? Jacks? Troops? Fire?
>>48307653
Yeah, and takes a soul, which takes management (which means points/activation inefficiency, which is where a theme would come in by either addressing the soul issue or spotting you a free UA) - and still puts you in the speed 5 range for what ought to be an avalanche of statues backed up by AGs and a battlegroup (where the extra deployment area is missed).
>>48306785
Despite that they look pretty good man
>>48306785
A lot can be helped by having a flat, white background and decent lighting.
Any other Retributionists loving the Heavy Rifle in MK3? I've been getting good play out of it especially since I initially only included it as a "points filler". Drops light beasts/jacks and solos.
How do you guys rank the new BB casters, not in terms of how powerful the box is but just the caster for the faction?
>>48308738
Xekaar is just a worse Rasheth.
>>48308738
Maddox and Kozlov are amazing. Malekus is like a solid alternate Feora. Helynna is a monster. Haven't heard much about Agatha on Warmachine side.
On Hordes, Ragnar is apparently pretty good, Skorne players are bitching about Xekaar but I can't tell if it's a general anger at the faction or him specifically. Tanith is good, but tricky to use since she wants to juggle a lot of upkeeps. No idea on Kryssa.
>>48303541
Karax are legit good now, and zaal1 making anything a weapon master is better for armor cracking than rasheth except on feat turn vs blood mark
>>48310540
My experience with Malekus is he always wants 1-2 more focus than he has. He can pull off an assassination on feat, but he really wants a Heirophant or something to help him out. Still, a really solid choice for making your whole FLGS come up with fire-immune lists, because goddamn, what a feat with some zealots and cleansers.
>>48310540
I like Tanith a lot. Shes very cryx-y. She for sure wants a wilder though. I gave her a gnarlhorn in my journey man league, its the most fun thing that will only work once
With the new edition, how are Circle, Retribution, and Skorne? They're the only starter boxes my FLGS has right now and while I have a bunch of Khador stuff, I want to paint something this weekend so I might just go grab one. Haven't played more than like 2 games so I'm new as hell to the game.
>>48311907
Ret is really good, Circle is meh, Skorne is a brave new world.
>>48311907
Circle is okay. We have some good warlock options and our warpwolves are still solid, biggest problem is that we struggle a lot with the new gunline meta outside of Wurmwood, who just neuters shooting straight up on feat turn.
>>48311907
skorne is fucked
>>48310540
Xekaar is good
As >>48309528 says, he's basically just a worse Rasheth
But being a bad Rasheth doesn't mean he's a bad caster
Every turn you cast psychosurgery, cast mortality, and pull from maltreatment to sit on 1
You always take Bonegrinders or a Shaman for craft talisman
You never use witchmark which can seem counter intuitive
He's good, just not something new or interesting.
>>48293916
Didn't you hear? Cryx is dead. Everything they have is trash now and they will never win a game again.
How can anything in Cryx be good now that people can kill banes?!
>>48313598
I know this is a joke, but everyobe should know that bane knights (aka mkii actual golden boys) are unchanged & satyxis are still fairly good. We just lost our prom king ;-; rip gaspy2
>>48310540
Ragnar is really good. Pagani and (I think) Flanzer were saying a lot of good things about him.
Pagani thinks Ragnor + Calandra/Gunny will be the troll staple pairing
Can someone educate me about camping fury/focus? I understand the 5 point damage being moved to battlegroup members within control. My Skorne caster Xekaar has a FURY of 6. Should I always leave one fury on him?
>>48313045
>Every turn you cast psychosurgery, cast mortality, and pull from maltreatment to sit on 1
Are you using Beasthandlers to mitigate the fury?
>>48314164
Yes, Fury is usually camped to allow for transferring damage to warbeasts. It is however not capped at 5, like damage reduction from Focus is.
Rule of thumbs is "camp two" to deter assassination attempts, though depending on the Situation you'll need more or less. Counting on always sitting on 1 is pretty dangerous.
>Are you using Beasthandlers to mitigate the fury?
I'm not that guy, but that is one of the uses of Beast Handlers. You'll hardly see a Skorne list without them, though that is mostly for Enrage.
>>48313847
On a serious note. Gaspy2 and Denny2 got shafted in the transition (and I am still not convinced that Gaspy2 is totally worthless but time will tell) but Cryx still has a fuck ton of real good casters.
Plus you have dude like Scaverous and Venethrax who got real interesting.
>>48314048
Jay Larsen has also praised Ragnor.
Now we know why there aren't Wreck markers anymore.
This is a real unedited clip from PP's how-to-play tutorial video.
>>48313045
Honestly, I think him and Rasheth are not totally identical. Xekaar allows for a bit more accuracy and attrition on your beasts with Psycho Surgery and Feat. Also Mortality allowing you to possible target multiple enemies or units instead of just individual models each turn is nice.
Rasheth is more straight dmg output with a big ass dmg feat and a single target ARM debuff to really fuck over heavies.
I actually think both are closer than they seem. Rasheth just has his big giant feat turn for dmg output and some decent denial spells (Castigate/Breath of Corruption) and Xekaar has better turn-to-turn output, accuracy and more attrition in his kit.
Rasheth is better vs armies with more heavies though so, right now, he is obviously still the better of the two. I am excited for both though. More than any other Skorne caster probably.
>>48314572
That is kind of amazing and I love it.
>>48314572
>Now we know why there aren't Wreck markers anymore.
Because PP lives to invalidate purchases
>>48314408
I think Cryx is in a fantastic position because of the high arm box spam potential for the new edition. I am sad to see my caster get taken down 6 more pegs than I felt were warrented. And its not like in legion where the power casters were nerfed but no one was buffed to compensate (ala venethrax + scaverous)
>>48314762
Legion is weird because their really good casters got worse but some of their beasts got arguably better/cheaper. So maybe there is something to be said for that in the future. Maybe they will be forced to use infantry now as well.
>>48314591
Naaresh is pretty good right now too.
>>48314289
Thanks.
Just bought some Convergence and gonna paint them like Cygnar.
Gonna be straight cash, homie.
Whats the most worthwhile Warmachine Battlegroup Box to pick up currently?
>>48316395
Uhh...probably Cygnar or Ret.
As a cryx player you will still probably not field either of the heavies. None of the khador players in my meta are stoked about their caster and then I dont know much about the menoth jacks.
>>48316591
>None of the khador players in my meta are stoked about their caster
That's probably just because he doesn't really bring anything new to the faction. He's a good caster, just nothing new or fancy. Honestly, the Khador box is probably one of the better ones. The Juggernaut is a good, cheap beatstick heavy and the Decimator is probably one of Khador's better shooting jacks now.
>>48314938
I still find it weird that they insist on Legion using infantry in the edition that is the most hostile to single wound infantry.
At least Swordsmen, Raptors, and Banshees are good.
>>48317090
Just as some factions had gone "too far" into infantry spam, Legion had gone too far into Beast spam. Menoth as well had become the "warjack faction" when it was never intended to be.
>>48316395
This is assuming you're starting a faction fresh:
>Cygnar
Ironclad and Firefly are solid if somewhat situational warjacks. You won't regret having them but you won't use them in every list either. Lancer is a decent arc node jack but competes heavily with Thorn and to a lesser extent the Hurricane. Maddox is okay.
>Khador
The two jacks are great. Juggernaut is so cheap for what it's worth, Decimator is less useful BUT can also be made into Torch, who is awesome. Kozlov is pretty solid but completely outclassed by Irusk.
>Cryx
Probably the least value. Slayer is okay but if you want decent heavies then you pay slightly more for Seethers or Inflictors and if you want to spam cheap jacks then Shrikes and Scavengers are better options. Reaper is not that great. Arc node is valuable. Agathia is alright, but I think she lacks power in a faction that needs the warcaster to do a lot of heavy lifting.
>Protectorate
This is pretty much like the Cygnar box. You won't regret having a Castigator or Repenter, and the Revenger is alright but competing with other options. Malekus is either really good or really mediocre depending on what you play him against.
>Retribution
To be honest I know very little about Ret jacks but I've played more than a few times against Hellyna to know that she is fucking amazing.
>>48317131
Manticore got better in Mk3 but the premium Ret heavy jacks are still Phoenix/Banshee/Discordia and to a lesser extent Hypnos. Sphinx also got a huge boost by being the bargain bin heavy,
Griffons are a good light, but will be more typically used in eVyros beyond anyone else.
Chimera is Ret's only cheap arc node - so there's that but outside of that there isn't much to it. Some casters will take it but others not so much and it is debatable in that if you have the points, a Phoenix is far better.
Hellyna is very good. Different than most Ret casters though.
>>48289562
The Behemoth IS a beast and has a lot of offensive potential. But it is still a SINGLE heavy. There are a lot of armies and lists that can shoot that single heavy off the table in a heartbeat. The big advantage of multiple heavies for the same price is that it is a lot more boxes for them to chew through to destroy the same amount of your points.
>>48317264
>Not listing Hydra among those that got a lot better in mk3
The Hydra is fantastic in mk3 and an easy top choice for Kaelyssa. The fact that it retains /generates focus and gets a better gun when loaded with focus makes it one of the best jacks for its price at range. In melee it lacks reach and has lower P+S than other heavies but Grab & Smash is still a good ability.
>>48310540
It's ok, I still have no idea what to use Kryssa for either.
Her feat and around half her spell list is nice, but she doesn't really have a role that she fills nor does she open up a new playstyle to the faction.
>>48315185
Care to explain? Outside of his high WB points and feat I don't see why anyone would run him.
Reminder that Morghoul1 is now VERY competitive. Why crack Khador armour in one turn when you crack half now, survive their turn with ease, then crack the other half next turn?
>>48319085
Morghoul 1 was always pretty solid in the bg heavy matchup, I'd like to get him on the table again.
>>48318149
I read this as Skorne's Desert Hydra at first and was really confused for a second.
>>48318811
The change to lamentation is pretty good. His feat is a great explosive damage turn and arm skew, where skorne already arm skews very well with the agonizer on the table. Also, he picked up a regeneration ability and can still pay upkeeps with health, so he has more fury to play with what are essentially free upkeeps. Blur is pretty neato, he can just put it in himself if he wants. He gets up to arm 22 with spiny growth and a good whipping.
Honestly there's a lot to like about him now, especially in the immediate mk3 meta of heavy BG lists.
>>48317131
Ret is the dark horse faction - so much potential. Double the possibilities of Circle.
>>48320558
Dark horse? everyone's been calling ret a winner since the beginning of mk3, that is in no way a dark horse...
>>48320558
Ret really isn't Dark Horse when everyone thinks they are a top contender.
>>48320590
Beat me to it.
>>48315185
Yeah but I still don't think he is top tier really. He just kind of plays the same way he did before but better. I do like him though.
Skorne casters are in a weird spot but I think the overall "best" right now is Rasheth. So he will probably be the main caster in 2 caster pairings.
Outside of him though, Makeda3 is probably our strongest caster. Zaal2 is actually pretty close though, he is pretty good. Xerxis1 still isn't bad either.
Everyone else is somewhere in the gray except maybe Morghoul2 who is still pretty bad.
I am intrigued by Hexxy2 though. His ability to Arc spells from any beast and cast a ton of spells with his feat is kind of interesting. He really wants to fight infantry though and a lot of people right are all excited about their jacks though so, he might not be ready for the meta.
I wish PP would release the theme lists. Its like half the game and some factions flexibility (trolls, cryx, skorne) may rely on them.
Got ret?
>>48325385
Hell yeah, son.
Let me tidy my hellhole of a battlestation and get some WIP pics up in here.
>>48301986
I play them and i can say, the protectorate excells at two things: Buff your own rather baseline troops/jacks so they become really awesome and denying the actions of your enemies. Like: nope can't shoot my jacks, forget to roll that die, this fire wont go out etc.
Big disasvantage are the rather squishy casters and risk of so called "over supporting". Malekus is quite a good start tough.
>>48325878
>MEN
Anyway why do people think Sentinels are the New banes? They hit hard, but you need to do/ be way more than that to be as obnoxious as Banes where in MK 2
>>48326752
They have more mat, more P+S (though they lack dark shroud), more armor while in wall of steel, UA gives pathfinder on a charge (an important part of ghostly) and 20 arm as a mini feat.
In my opinion they're better banes.
So I was reading through Minion/Merc solos hoping to find something useful to field against Warmachine factions in mySkorne listsbecause I've come to the conclusion that my 2 lists should each be focused on playing against a different game system, and I just struck absolute gold and read the card for the Gremlin Swarm. Holy SHIT.
>FA 2
>PC 3
>Incorporeal
>Stealth
>SP6 DEF13 ARM12
>Apparition
>Annoyance (living models within 1" get -1 to attack rolls)
>Mischief (when a B2B Warjack activates, roll a d3. 1 = -2SPD, 2 = -2 attack, 3 = -2 damage)
>Sabotage ([Action] B2B Warjack takes d3+3 damage and I get to choose which column it goes to)
Holy FUCK I'm going to bring 2 in my anti-Warmachine list and not even think twice about it. 3x2 points to make life hell for Warjacks when Warjacks are cancer right now is unbelievable value. I can even shield my models with them by leaving 1" between it and my model since you can't completely move past me.
>>48326929
I love how their standard bearer has MAT7 too even though he doesn't have an attack. It's like they just wanted to make sure everything about them was stupid.
>>48326929
I like bane knights better, honestly. Ghostly cant be taken away and makes you immune to feestrikes (the important things) and cryx has access to more debuffs iirc. In addition BLT brings a mat fixer and an arm debuff.
Sentinels may have a higher base mat and solid arm but time will tell if they become as ubiquitous.
>>48327426
>Anti-Warmachine - List 1
(Morghoul 1) Master Tormentor Morghoul [+30]
- Titan Cannoneer [17]
- Titan Gladiator [14]
- Bronzeback Titan [18]
- Basilisk Krea [7]
Gremlin Swarm [3]
Gremlin Swarm [3]
Tyrant Zaadesh [4]
- Cyclops Brute [8]
- Cyclops Brute [8]
Nihilators (max) [15]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (min) [5]
Extoller Soulward [3]
>Anti-Hordes - List 2
(Hexeris 1) Lord Tyrant Hexeris [+29]
- Titan Gladiator [14]
- Titan Gladiator [14]
- Bronzeback Titan [18]
- Agonizer [7]
- Razor Worm [7]
Cataphract Cetrati (max) [20]
- Tyrant Vorkesh [6]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (min) [5]
Mortitheurge Willbreaker [4]
Extoller Soulward [3]
Paingiver Bloodrunner Master Tormentor [4]
Swamp Gobbers Bellows Crew [2]
Feeling pretty good about these.
>>48326929
Right, but they are not "The New Banes". The Old Banes shtick was simply do everything better than anything else,
That's comparable, but not infinitely better or worse.
HERE'S THE NEW BANES
SAME AS THE OLD BANES
>>48325820
Got 2 mage hunter strike trams and 2 solos.
>>48325820
Does the EU pack (all metal, damnit PP) for IF Uhlans come with the horse's tails? Both mine and a friends were missing.
>>48325820
Only played once with ret.
>>48325820
So, I'm in my JML and I picked Menoth. I'm not super stoked with them at the moment. Added in a small chior and a Vassal. I want to try the hordes side but I'm wanting something beefy that doesn't need something like Chior or Vassal. What faction would I be looking for? Legion? Circle?
>>48332050
Skorne ;^)
But really there is no answer to that. If there was a magical cheap heavy that didn't need support it'd break the game.
>>48332082
Naw, not wanting something cheap. I realize that there's not going to be some faction that will do everything. I'm simply wanting something that doesn't need a unit that does nothing but buff warjacks/beasts like the choir.
Frankly I'd love skorne but I always hear such bad things about them.
>>48296480
>>48296743
Mohsar is only as good as your opponent is bad, and even bad players will eventually figure him out if they play against him a few times.
He presents your opponent with a puzzle they must solve if they want to win, but the solution to that puzzle is largely list-independent. If they pass the skill check, and most players will, Mohsar probably loses.
>>48332050
It's worth noting that while the Menoth battlebox caster is pretty good, he's absolute fucking trash in a Journeyman setting, and that is probably coloring your experience with them.
Wait until you're allowed to swap casters and plug in something like Kreoss1 or Amon, then reevaluate Menoth.
Gonna do Khador in a journeyman league. Progression looking like this:
Week 2 : Juggernaut (we're doing 15 points in week 2 because 10 points sucks)
Week 3: Widowmakers + Widowmaker Marksman
Week 4: Black Dragons + UA
Week 5 : Grolar
Week 6: Sylss, Gorman, and Iron Fang Kovnik (provided he's as solid as he was in Mk2)
>>48332168
If you want absolute independence, Legion's likely your bet or even Minions
>>48332050
Circle or minions, imo
>>48330149
>>48330173
Isn't that a solo and a UA?
Which of the iron kingdoms stories have the most character development? Every story i read seems like 5% setup and 95% action that comes off as outright fan fictioney to the point of most characters seemingly only using the spells they have access to on the tabletop, and using them frequently.
i'd prefer a bit more setup than that, hard to enjoy all the cardboard 2D characters having shallow fights without any quality world building, development or consequences...
So I've been out of the game for quite a while now, and I've run into a bit of a quandary.
I have quite a few units that I bought second-hand but never got around to stripping (and by god do they look terrible). Trouble is that the units in question (Skorne swordsmen, ferox, and arcuarii) are all in the old minimum unit size, so there are few places I can find the old unit expansion blisters (not that I really feel like spending all that much to round out the units).
Should I just pitch them and get the new full unit kits if I decide to use the minis at some point? Or put time into trying to save them? It's not like I'll be able to sell them any time soon.
>>48333887
Into the Storm/Into the Wild have a good amount of setup and worldbuilding, and don't focus on existing canon characters or even spellcasters, mostly.
>>48333941
You could do what I did. Pitch in and buy the new ones if you find yourself wanting a full unit, but keep the old ones in case you find the blisters on sale. If you do end up happening on blisters, you end up with multiple full units. If not, you have something to practice your paintscheme on.
>>48319085
Still gets shot off the table.
>>48334768
Is this the answer to everything now? "Nothing is good that you like because it gets shot off the table, everything gets shot off the table T1 noob get more guns and play only our meta"
Guns are limp-wristed even to Skorne's now-shitty armor, toss around a decent army list and Khador's shitty-ass shooting won't do half as much damage as your 13-point unit will in that time.
>>48334817
Are you surprised that "dies to removal" reared its ugly head in MTG: the miniaturing?I'm personally just waiting for someone to discover the storm crow equivaliant
>>48334817
No. There's stuff that doesn't get shot off the table. Problem is that very little of it is in Skorne.
>>48334851
With "removal" being this strong it should not be a surprise.
>>48334851
Whaddya think, is it one of the models that used to be great in everything and now is only decent, like Gatormen? Or is it something that's always been shit and still is shit, even if it's theoretically got it's uses?
My vote goes to Kossite Woodsmen. Strictly inferior to Woodsmen, better find something faster and shootier bro.
>>48334817
Guns are that meta bending right now. Blame PP for fucking up on every aspect of the game from the core rules, the steamroller scenarios and the casters for allowing the current travesty to happen.
>>48328997
>The Old Banes shtick was simply do everything better than anything else
Ah. No. Hell no. Just no.
i got into this game for melee with some combined arms to soften the enemy up. Fuck this gunline shit. this is just straight out warmachine 40k where a heap of games are decided top of 2 when the gunline blows you off the table
>>48332168
Honestly Skorne is fine.
>>48332168
Honestly Skorne is not fine.
>>48332168
Honestly Skorne is completely fucked
>>48332168
Skorne is fucked
>>48335436
>Skorne is fine
What in a Skorne list would you be worried about seeing on the other side of the table? How does the number and degree of things that scare you in Skorne compare to those found in the other factions?
Another important thing to consider is how much build variety is there in Skorne, now? Perhaps there are lists that give the faction a real competitive edge, but if the options that are competitive compared to other factions are significantly limited, then that drains fun, inventive options from your list building, and makes it easy to come up with a counter that you may not have an answer for.
One issue seems to be needing a lot of baby sitter and utility units to make things work effectively. Krea to babysit infantry as they desperately try to move upfield, agonizer to try and keep our beasts from dying to alpha, PGBH to try and control beast fury output since that was tampered with. Gladiator if you want access to rush.
Our Fury5 warlocks also took a hit, with a lot of trap abilities and spells that use far too much of their limited fury pool. Several of our warlocks have painfully stupid skornergy rules interactions with units that they should want to take.
Finally, reading in that AMA with Soles didn't instill me with confidence that they will fix things. He admired that he doesn't really like the melee focus of the lore, finds the faction boring and confusing, and has no idea what to do with them.
>>48335619
i love skorne man, i fucking love them in mk3.
being on the opposite side of the table that is. I've never had easier wins than when i'm up against a skorne player
>>48335564
>>48335584
>>48335598
>>48335690
Haven't played since mkII, how's ma eVyros, Thyron, and Ossyan goin?
>>48335768
>implying Skorne being shit is a meme
wew
>>48335782
eVyros is good
Thyron is meh, but didn't really change
Ossyan is literally a walking god
>>48335782
eVyros got a little weaker but is still good
Thyron stayed the same
Ossyan is RetJesus now
>>48328678
What you do against a serious Gun line ?
>>48335619
I'm going to fix Skorne right fucking now. Soles, if you're listening, take notes you faggot.
>Give the Krea back it's +2 arm buff
>Fix the "medium warbeast" problem:
>>+2 POW on the Archidon
>>+1 POW on the Rhinodon's fists, give it's tail 2" reach, and +1 base arm to top it off.
>+1 MAT on any melee troops that aren't at least 7 already, MAT 6 is not Hoksune.
I'm reserving judgement on a lot of the troop subtypes like Cataphracts and Immortals until we see theme forces, Fist of Halaak2.0 might already be in the pipe for all we know.
>>48335619
>fixing Skorne
I've been thinking about that a lot. Soles pretty clearly stated in the AMA that they have no idea what to do with the faction and that is pretty frustrating to hear. When I think about it a thousand ideas come to my mind (half of which a probably fucking terrible, but that's what playtesting is for) how to make them work.
For example the archidon: Add Parry to Lightning Strike and make the thing 10 points. it now fulfills a role no other model in the faction does (as opposed to if you just made it hit harder) and is somewhat appropriately priced.
Or Cataphracts: They die to a stiff breeze, but more boxes/ARM would make them brokenly good? Then try something different. For example reduce them to 2-3 boxes and give them Ancient Shroud. And there you go; a unit with unique design that can do what it's supposed to do without being unreasonably hard to deal with.
This shit is insultingly easy.
In Cryx, what warcasters are good for infantry or combined arms list?
Venethrax all-jack list, while fun, will be screwed by anything, built to eliminate beast\jack-spam lists. So I need something as my second list. And can decide what.
pDenny seems boring, although she's, probably, "an universal answer".
I have 5 (6) units:
* Bane Warriors + UA
* McThralls + Brutes + Necrosurgeon
* Bile Thralls min
* Blackbane's Ghost Riders
* Nyss Hunters
Also, great variety of solos and some warjacks.
Is there a good site for the new mk3 metagame? I'm a complete beginner and want to learn a bit about it.
>>48335619
Why are you bringing a 7 point Krea to babysit your 15 point Nihilators when you could just spend a bit more and BRING ANOTHER FUCKING UNIT. Or better yet just bring a Cannoneer and dunk on infantry while still having very respectable damage in melee.
>>48337013
Truth is, apart from a few obvious realizations (Ossyan might be pretty okay. Morghoul2 might not be too good.) it's a bit too early for a meta to develop.
>>48337044
Good to know, I have really no clue how fast a meta establishes in tabletop war games.
Then I'm just having some fun meanwhile!
>>48336137
You're telling me that all lists have to have a massive skew towards anti-shooting? There's no way of knowing your opponent is bringing shooting based on their faction, so you must be expecting every list to have a huge skew against shooting.
What does a "serious gunline" do against a Cannoneer, a Gladiator, and a Bronzeback? My Cannoneer can walk 8" and shoot 16". The only problem I can see is Ret whose gunline is actually an incredibly strong melee unit as well. Because that's fucking fair. But then again it's hardly a problem with Skorne that another faction has been given busted units.
>>48337061
Currently it seems to be gravitating towards the extremes of what was recently buffed (jacks and guns). However with "dynamic updates" and major tournaments still waiting to happen there's no way to be certain that's what we'll be playing in 6 months still.
>>48337072
>What does a "serious gunline" do against a Cannoneer, a Gladiator, and a Bronzeback?
Kill them to death until they die.
>>48337072
a cannoneer, gladiator and bronzeback just dies, even with shield guards. Sloan would blow that list off the table effortlessly, because not only are you forced into her vastly superior gun ranges to try to cross the gap between you and her, but she can have stormlances waiting in the wings to charge anything that closes the gap. the combination of hunter, defender, firefly guns and stormlances to crush the models that close destroys that list
>>48337095
>Sloan would blow that list off the table effortlessly
Is there anything, that she'll doesn't blow off? You can't pack enough armor, can't hide behind clouds\stealth, can't out-shoot her, etc.
>>48337124
There are some things I'd be comfortable dropping into her. Few of those are in Skorne though. Most of them start with "Aradus".
>>48337124
Protectorate of Menoth, if she isnt running a stormwall, which reduces her overall dakka she just wont be able to shoot anything really. Plus eSevvy is a baller
