>it's a "the antagonists that have been trying to kill you all campaign are actually misunderstood good guys" session
Does that make us widely misunderstood bad guys?
>>48246179
The only example of this I have would be both too real and too /pol/. So I got nothing.
>>48246460
From a certain point of view, but as long as you have the high ground, I think it'll be fine.
I don't mind people attempting to kill me so long it's nothing personal. We are professionals.
>>48246549
I mean, I could see it being valid depending on how indiscriminate the player characters' own killing has been thus far.
You are not evil if you pray (or someone else prays) for the salvation of your soul.
>>48246179
Thats fair, I do play lawful evil banker mages build.
>>48246549
>>Ur bad guys!!1
>>UUUU
That's the beauty of moral relativism
>>48246773
"You are the monsters" and "Everyone's a monster" are both shit-tier. If lycanthropes run about murdering humans in retaliation for us killing them, they're just proving the point.
Want us to stop killing you? Then come over and we'll talk over some beers and let both sides speak.
>>48246179
>"the antagonists that have been trying to kill you all campaign are actually the Sheriff's men who want talk to you about some killings you were involved in, earlier."
>>48246510
Physical or Moral high ground? This is important, I need to know how quickly I can manage to master my Spinning.
>>48246549
How did that happen?
>>48246179
We... kill them anyway?
>>48246800
The monsters are obviously the monsters, but when you call them out they'll nail you with the compelling argument of 'No U'. Which is fine, you just accept the label and do what you've gotta do rather than arguing about it like a gooner.
>>48246179
>"If you kill me then you'll be just like me!!!"
>"I just wanted to make the world a better place!"
Gray """"morals"""" suck.
Well maybe you should stop attacking everyone with a weapon who isn't you, eh?
>>48247011
What are some good motivations for bad guys to be bad?
>>48247059
Money, power
>>48247059
Protagonist centred morality.
>the antagonists is just neutral character you pissed off by unintentionally wrecking all his plans
How often this happens?
>>48247059
Having a different opinion.
>>48246549
how the fuck did we get 4u from that
/tv/ needs to stop forever
>>48247059
Women.
>>48247011
Proper grey morals are more along the lines of "I fucked over all those [insert racist term] to improve the lives of my people. No regrets."
>>48247059
As far back as I can remember, I always wanted to be a gangster. To me, being a gangster was better than being President of the United States. Even before I first wandered into the cabstand for an after-school job, I knew I wanted to be a part of them. It was there that I knew that I belonged. To me, it meant being somebody in a neighborhood that was full of nobodies. They weren't like anybody else. I mean, they did whatever they wanted. They double-parked in front of a hydrant and nobody ever gave them a ticket. In the summer when they played cards all night, nobody ever called the cops.
>>48247059
Making the world* a better** place.¤* may not be equivalent to or directly continuous with/from other interpretations of what constitutes the/a "world".** relative to one particular person's opinion¤ may occupy only conceptual or virtual spaceGET READY TO GET TANGED BITCHES
>>48247059
Just wants to hurt people?
>>48247059
REVENGE!
>GM reveals I was the evil twin all along, and after I killed my good twin (years ago), the party had my memories wiped so I'd think I was him and they wouldn't have to let go
Wat do?
>>48247059
Money
Sick gains
Political power
Revenge for some slight real or imagined
Utopian vision (corresponds well with #3)
Jealousy
>>48247078
>greed
Good
>>48247122
>clash of interests
Maybe
>>48247152
>Helen of Troy
Hmmmm....
>>48247262
>dark gray morality
Nope
>>48247264
>madness
Boring but okay
>>48247257
>culture
Orcs orcs orcs orcs
>>48247295
>zey killd my family and my cat better kill them back at any cost and cause sooo much collateral damage
Ugh
>>48247059
Entertainment.
>>48247324
Who cares? So long as you think you have the memories of the good twin, it doesn't matter who you really were.
>>48247378
What about the truth, anon? Would the good twin want me to facilitate their continued living in denial? And if I'm the evil twin, does that mean I should do the opposite of what he wanted?
But if I'm supposed to think I'm him, doesn't that mean I should do exactly what he would have wanted?
>>48247059
Being a faerie and having an alien system of morals.
>Insulted? Time to KILL A BABY!
>>48247400
Just be the person you are now, not the one you used to be.
>>48247059
Honestly trying to make the world a better place, but thinks the best way to do that is to wipe out another (note entirely bad) race.
>>48247324
Which does the character prefer (assuming he has both memory sets now).
If he only has one memory set, why does it matter?
>>48247400
>the truth
Who cares? You're a different person now than you were before.
>what would he want
Who cares what he wants, he's dead.
>>48247449
Wouldn't you be worried if you found out you weren't really who you thought you were? What else is a lie? And don't your friends deserve to know the truth?
>>48247059
Hunger.
>>48247339
>>dark gray morality
>Nope
By your logic Hitler's a bad villain, since he thought the world would be better without Jews in it.
>>48247488
>Wouldn't you be worried if you found out you weren't really who you thought you were?
No, because I am, in fact, exactly who I thought I am. The continuation of consciousness is the entirety of the self. If I have the same memories and think the same thoughts, then I am the same person.
>>48247324
Damn, I've seen the mindwiped villain plotline before and forgotten completely where I saw it.
>>48247324
Usurp the thrones, both of them.
>>48247488
The thing is.
By definition, you are always who you think you are. Your memories define you, what you remember is what /you/have experienced.
Would I be uncomfortable with my /history/ beign different then what I thought it was? Yes. >>48247643
KOTOR, it was Revan.
>>48247717
Yes it was, I guess that shows how much of an impression it left on me.
>>48247059
Pfft, other than political megalomaniacs and shit, the whole "power" thing is a bit stupid.
Some of the worst things done by people not at the head of an army were done for money/prestige/spreading ideas rather than just "I want to lord over you muahaha!"
>>48246893
Probably around the time you smashed up a guy's store over can of coke.
But more likely when you held a fast food joint at gunpoint over a burger.
Gotta deal with that anger dude, life's tough on everyone.
>>48246917
I think we could all learn a lot from the Goblin Slayer.
>>48247059
Wanting to be a big man and not understanding the proper consequences of actions.upon being faced with the destruction he's wrought the BBEG falls to his knees and throws up. He tries to keep face but you can tell how deeply guilty and embarrassed he is for everything he's done
>>48247339
Boredom.
>>48247059
Because it's the only thing they're good at.
>>48248196
Sorry I forgot my picture.
>It's a bad guys are people too episode
>>48246800
You know I'm pretty fucking sure the "monsters" would be shitposting in a cave somewhere (maybe they actually communicate with shit?) the exact same sentiments about you.
Can a robot be a hero?
>>48248147
Could've been worse.>Uwe Boll made a good movie within your lifetime.
>>48248286
>>48248493
I was half expecting a "You Died" to show up on the screen
>>48248387
Yeah, why not?
>>48248516
Don't worry, he livedthat time
>>48246179
Nope, never once seen that.
I just don't like it when GMs try to browbeat the party with moral conundrums like that. Having an antagonist whose motivations make sense beyond wanting to burn down the puppy orphanage for fun is important of course, but you shouldn't play take away and say that it was a trick the whole time.
>>48247339
>Genocide
>dark gray
Are you stupid, autistic or both?
Villainy as intellectual exercise, manifest destiny or just because they simply do not give a fuck about you, your crew or anything you hold dear. As ants are to humans, the protagonists are to the villain.
The best way to make a villain organization that is both believably and realistically evil and yet also unambiguously and obviously evil is to have that organization practice Blood In Blood Out.
Isn't it better to think in terms of antagonist? Villains and bad guys is pretty narrow.
>game boils down to trying to teach players a lesson
Fuck that shit.
I did not come to be taught how my morality is shit and I should take my head out of my ass and shove it up yours.
>>48248708
I agree. It should never be "oh no, it turns out we were in the wrong the whole time" but instead it should be "we knew from the beginning that X character wasn't wholly bad however their motivations/moral compass conflicts with our own and we decided to defend our own interests"
>>48246179
>the antagonists that have been trying to kill you all campaign
no
fuck you
I hate this kind of bullshit
This is why I either play chaotic evil or lawful good, so that I won't let this slide and "I don't give a shit about your supposedly good intentions, you made a mistake by trying to kill me and my friends and you must pay for it"
>>48247078
this
if you play it well enough it isn't even the bad guys anymore.
>"I murdered the entire royal family, fucked up all the countries that could oppose my reign and now the people rejoice in the best time of peace since centuries while I bath in their taxes, no longer needed to be spent on warfare. Why the fuck are you going to kill me for? For literally making the country a better place? Retards like you need to be put in place"
>>48246179
>It's a "Nobody knows who's the good guys anymore" kind of session
>>48246800
"You are the monsters" and "Everyone's a monster" are both shit-tier. If humans run about murdering lycanthropes in retaliation for us killing them, they're just proving the point.
Want us to stop killing you? Then come over and we'll talk over some fresh meat and let both sides speak.
>>48246179
The party I'm running a game for are the bad guys though although they generally will do the right thing if it benefits them.
>The antagonists they're fighting who are clearly misunderstood bad guys...are secretly incredibly corrupt and nigh on bringing about apocalyptic events
>>48246510
a subtle kek to you anon
>>48247324
Considering you've been doing good for who knows how long now, and you haven't reverted back to a life of evil, keep adventuring as a good guy, and constantly use the brainwashing as a chip to get whatever you want from them
>>48246179
Are the female "Villians" out of a platinum game? Cause if so, this is fine
As long as the GM doesn't punish the party for the decision, I don't see anything wrong with revealing the villain to have had a troubled past or their own set of morally acceptable goals and ideals. If they want to finish off the guy that actively tried to slaughter them like dogs, then be my guest, but don't be so easily swayed and start thinking I'm trying to guilt trip you when you find out he was his own person with a vision and morals. Fleshing out a character doesn't always mean someone's trying to make a point or paint you in a certain light for your actions. Sometimes things just are, and you should be able to stand by your own decisions given the circumstances and information without getting upset because things turned out differently than expected.
That said, there are absolutely cheap and unsavory ways of handling the matter, ones which often result in an inappropriate tonal shift or just feel like a poor attempt of making fools out of the party, but I don't think there should be a stigma around non-evil antagonists either.
>>48247059
Because it's the thing that makes you happy.
>>48246773
i know , it is an ugly truth and makes things a lot harder than they already are.
finding reasons why you believe what you think is right is the only countermeasure.
>>48249298
>clearly LE behavior
>instead LG or CE
>>48248286
learning from goblin slayer would require reading it, which i wouldn't do to my worst enemies.
>>48248753
>As ants are to humans, the protagonists are to the villain.
This one is actually cliché as hell.
It's acceptable if you can sell it. Fire up vocaroo and give us your best villainous "omoshiroi," please.
>>48246179
just do whatever that is the most effective
what else is there
>>48249725
What's wrong with ye olde bute newe Goblin Slayer?
>>48247059
>>48246179
It depends on what you mean by "misunderstood"
People who do evil shit but genuinely believe, as in completely without a shred of doubt, that what they're doing is good is kind of interesting in a frightening broken mind/zealotry kind of way
People who are fucking evil but indirectly through their actions cause good are also interesting, because it creates the problem for the players of eliminating the evil also causing a net reduction of good in the world
People who are genuinely evil but tries to justify their actions with "but its for the greater good" or "but it won't matter in the end" is bullshit that needs to stop
Played a game where the BBEG was basically fantasy Pablo Escobar. They were sadistic, calculating, outwardly very violent, and held ambition to gain power and territory through their guerrilla army financed by not!cocaine. But loyal men/women within the cartel are rewarded generously with food and wages better then what most poor could expect in an agricultural/manufacturing job, so their was a huge flood of poor youths joining their cartel and sending remittances home. Even though it totally wasn't their intention, their loyalty scheme ended up supporting huge swaths of fantasy Columbia's poor.
We still shot the bastard dead though, we were PC's after all
>>48247011
Mighty Max handled it best.
>"If you kill me, you'll be no BETTER than me!"
>"I can live with that."
>>48248753
>As ants are to humans, the protagonists are to the villain
Except by default people don't actively try to destroy and torment ants. All of this shit of being so superior empathy was impossible shit falls flat considering how common it is for people NOT to murder every small creature they find.
>>48250404
ant was maybe a bad analogy
what about
the mosquito
>>48250432
Mosquito is the deadliest animal when measured in total deaths due to disease transmission. If the protagonists are mosquitos they're propagating massive destruction by just existing.
>>48250472
sounds right to me
>>48247011
"No I won't. After all, you'll be dead."
attempt to kill them or die to them. if the DM tries to prevent either, walk off as soon as he starts talking. This is necessary to make sure he never tries to pull this stupid shit ever again.
>>48246179
Evil exists in the eye of the beholder. Players are generally inclined to believe the people who work against them are evil, but that doesn't particularly matter because their ethical standards are no more valid than any other set of ethical standards.
I mean, you gotta do what you gotta do - I'm the GM and I won't stop you from torching orphanages and peddling drugs to kids if that's what you feel you should do - but your opinion is just your opinion and other peoples' opinions are just their opinions.
>>48247011
I think the better place one is fine, or atleast replace it with the fact that they wanted to make the world how they think it should be.
>>48247324
Did he come up with that without your permission? Talk to him out of game and explain that you do/or don't like the direction he took your character in, and decisions like that should be discussed with you ahead of time.
>>48248537
story?
>>48246549
For you
>>48246179
Rape and pillage then.You are the bad guys now right?
if it's an 11th hour reveal then it's probably the result of bad writing, but if consistently through the campaign they know that the bbeg is doing what they're doing for reasons that make sense but they don't agree with then that can make for a very compelling villain
>>48246757
Would be top tier if not for Lawful Evil lawyer sorcerers
>>48247406
>rules for fucking with the fae
>1. don't
>addendum a: if rule one must be broken, have a metric fuckton of iron lying around
>>48246179
>The protagonists forgive all the evil Kanto gym leaders who were explicitly willing to kill children to further their goals
>>48247059
They're just really horny.Like 24/7.I ran a one shot with the PCs being investigators and such and the "BBEG" was a wizard who mindraped people to go out and rape people while he watched with magic
>>48247339
Autism.
>>48249668
/tg/ doesn't understand how alignment works, anon.
>>48246179
>"So you were trying to cure the plague all along, not spread it? You were at all the plague sites to try and study its effects, not because you had just introduced it to the population? But our mission to track down the cause of the plague was public knowledge, well known to the victims. Why try to kill us at all?"
>"I really don't like your face."
>>48246179
It's a
>OP is a cock sucking fagula thread
>>48246488
>too real and too /pol/
Now I wanna hear this
>>48249343
This is where my character would seriously start investigating the evidence, ask for time until he gets an answer for himself and come back on that
In said case, my character would ask him if there's any business left to do that he has yet to do
>>48247295
This can be done really well. Especially if you have the kind of players who are willing to watch and even cheer for films with a revenge-centered protagonist.
It's all about how you sell it.
>>48249999
nice quads
source?
>>48247059
Hating the status quo and wanting to change it. GM wants to run a game of Shadowrun where the bad guy is basically A BIG GUY who despises the corporation state status quo and wants to rebuild the world without it. He just doesn't seem to care that crashing that system will leave shit quite fucked for quite a while.
When we finally get around to playing the game, we as players actually get to decide whether or not to oppose or join him, depending on who we play at the time.
>>48249725
it's only twoexcellentchapters, you'll live.
>good vs bad guys conflict.
What are you, 4?
>>48252999
haven't a clue
>>48249408
What would a peaceful world even do? Does it just crash and fall apart from being so efficient and stable?
>>48253590
Tell that to the whole world.
>>48252722
Probably because alignments don't work if you analyse them deeply.
>>48248387
Yes.
>>48246179
It actualy was the BBEG and his minions trying to brain wash us. We didn't managed to resist though.
>>48247576And he wasn't wrong.
>>48253867
The Atelier world tends to be peaceful with most issues being economic or character related.
>>48252361
>addendum b: if addendum a must be broken, have a metric fuckton of salt lying around
>>48247059
In my game (I'm the GM), there's a couple of bad guys that I think have motivations ranging from rather shit to quite good.
Shit
>I'm being hit by mind control beams so I'm insane now
>OK
>I need to reproduce and that takes all the souls of the entire human race to do that. I don't think that humans would like that so I'll just do it without your knowledge by manipulating a bunch of people.
>Decent
>Your actions will fuck over the other BBEG and help me so I'm going to help you do your thing. That also benefits me, and I have to eat the entire human race too. But I'll be a lot nicer about it.
>Good
>A meteor is coming in 2 months and humanity is in the middle of bickering amongst itself with stupid shit. The party is trying to go to the different countries of the world and liberate them from their various stupid problems so they can face the meteor. This BBEG is getting together their own party to solve the problems of the countries before the party can. The difference is that after doing so, they install a manipulator into the country's government that calls the shots. This is because this BBEG believes that while the players are overall doing the better thing, democracy and peace is too slow to stop the meteor in 2 months and organizing everyone under one leadership might do the trick and prevent everyone from dying.The meteor isn't actually real, it's just a convenient excuse made up by the BBEG party to light a fire under everyone's ass. They're just trying to stop the two BBEGs who are trying to eat humanity. This fact makes the party more justified than the BBEG group because that two-month time limit isn't actually a thing.
please excuse my plot sperg, maybe someone will find it interesting or find something inspirational in it
>>48254442
Noice
>>48246460
Tvtrope for Villain With Good Publicity.
>>48247295
Dex-Starr is good kitty.
>>48254442
>universe in a early gunpowder age Europe-like continent setting with steampunk shit
>2 countries at war over new resource voidstone which has untapped raw magical power and unknown uses (aka oil)
no bbeg but more of a faction based setting, help the one side or another, also while 2 countries fight each other, various infighting goes on to gain power during the times of turmoil Lord Carthus despite being on the same side as High Lord Taren sells plans of the high lords army movements and weaknesses on the city he controls directly to the other country in exchange for a retainment of lordship over his lands and the High Lords when the war inevitable turns south for the Calcian Lords due to the sheer number of soldiers under Tallasarian command.
t;l d;r i dont do good and evil, i do factions which you can support or join up with or oppose and even if you are technically on the same side these factions fight one another behind the scenes.
>>48254571
http://imgur.com/gallery/oh7xR
>>48247339
>Madness
Wanting to assert your dominance over lesser individuals is perfectly natural.But fuck you if you think natural = good.
>>48252754
>Curing the plague and killing your bitch asses aren't really mutually exclusive goals.
>>48252999
Latchkey Kingdom. Good stuff.
>>48246179
What if I just want everyone to be guys with an agenda?
>>48247059
The quest for immortality. This can be literal, but it may be more interesting if it's metaphorical - the villain is looking to leave a mark on the world, to be remembered.
What about not having a villain at all?
>>48255103
That would be pretentious and boring.
>>48255121
It is not. You could have things like the villain being dead and the campaing having to deal with the consequencies of his actions. It could be about a curse, plague or something impersonal or jus adventure.
Murder is just extroverted suicide.
>>48255141
It's a lot more interesting if the antagonists have personality and motivations and can be interacted with. There doesn't need to be a main villain, but a campaign without villains at all will be weak.
>>48255239
Some of the best stories I can think of have no villain. It's just a matter of focus.
>>48255295
Nevermind I didn't read the thread
>>48246179
>it's a "Person is antagonist because he doesn't accept my point of view that is only right and everyone who disagrees is evil and has to die" episode
>>48247059
They want to improve the world but trying nicely failed.
Something like Malcolm X or Ozymandias.
>>48249343
>Why the fuck are you going to kill me for?
well shit nigga
>I murdered the entire royal family
>fucked up all the countries that could oppose my reign
i mean there isn't any possible way somebody could possibly harbor a reason to hate you after regicide and war, right?
fuck is this shit
>>48249343
>Why the fuck are you going to kill me for?
*stabs*
I am Lord King now
>>48249343
Is this the part when antagonist gives you order to kill him publicly because everyone hates him?
>>48256067
LULUCHUUU
>>48249343
>Wages war on all the world
>Thinks the only people who suffer and die in war are enemy combatants
>Thinks the people cheering his name are doing so willingly
>Is baffled that anyone would want him dead
I agree. You're a great villain.
>>48249343
>>48256067
Yes, yes Well done anon, well done
HOWEVER
>>48250573
>>48250209
No, you shoot first, THEN do a one liner.
SHOOT FIRST, THEN ONE LINER.
SHOOT FIRST.
>>48249343
You have to go back
>>48249343
Cool story bro, still murder.
>>48246179
>antagonists are misunderstood good guys
Yes, I know, 'cause I'm the bad guy.
What, surprised?
Ponder yourself this - why am I sitting in this comfy chair while you are hiding somewhere in the city sewers?
Why am I giving public interviews on prime-time TV and people laud me like a new coming of Maecenas, while you must hide from the SWAT teams and conceal your face?
Why am I eating luxury dinners at Dorsia, while you must scrap upon trash together with rats?
Let me let you in on a secret - it's 'cause I got a good PR management team, and you don't.
So while you ponder upon my words, let me tell you another secret while I am at it - while you are watching this tape, the SWAT team is closing in on your location at this very moment.
I estimate it will be there in about 30 seconds.
Run. Run like a rat you are.
And know that you've lost the war.
Even if you somehow, someday, manage to kill me, my legacy will carry on, and you will spend your entire life running from shadows, never accomplishing anything of worth.
The only thing that you will leave upon this planet is a small pile of ashes. Your legacy will be destroyed, while mine will be put on a pedestal and worshipped.
I hope you will remember this.
Ciao.
>>48246179
I am proud to say that - to my GM's frustration - I have prevented the party from ever doing this by steering them away from revelations like this, and by being cruel to the villains. Like, exceptionally cruel.
I've derailed any attempt to introduce moral grayness by going "Sure, sure - What look do they have?" or "Well, that's interesting. Let's find a tavern."
I have also kicked a sorceress in the face with iron-capped boots to break her jaw, when she was trying to explain her side's plot. Also, I handed over a supposedly sympathetic villainess to high command to be 'vanished'.
In fact, I'm finding this silent struggle a lot more fun than the campaign itself.
>>48256740
You're obviously a NARP faggot.
>>48256353
What's the point of saying some cold ass shit to a dude AFTER you kill him?
>>48257367
Because then he doesn't kill while you're saying your cold ass shit.
>>48257374
if he can kill you while you say one liner than he has as much chance to kill you before you say this
>>48254939
Most healthy human beings like helping other human beings. It's an evolutionary trait, from us being social creatures. Things like abuse, however, are learned traits and cyclical.
Natural = Neutral that slightly leans toward Good at times.
>>48257487
Human beings will help other human beings, so long they felt they belong to the same tribe. There's a point, when it becomes a game of numbers instead of a game of empathy.
>>48257534
People help others who aren't in the same "Tribe" all the time. The only time something like that happens is if one feels the need to defend their tribe from the other tribe. That stems from fear and, even more, a desire to protect what one loves.
>>48247059
Differing political or religious ideology.
>>48247011
How is becoming just like someone who wants to make the world a better place bad, wouldn't killing them then be good because it would cause me to also want to make the world a better place?
This moral greyness is confusing, can I just go back to killing monsters for money now
>>48249343
>"Yes, yes, yes, I get it. Remember the part where you said you killed the entire royal family?"
>"Well, you forgot the ROYAL BASTARD."
>"That'd be me."
>an ancient evil is awakening
>it promises that it isn't evil any more and the entire party believes this
Can't wait for the Bad End so I can say I told you so~
>>48251136
What an idiotic image.
>>48247059
"The greatest happiness is to scatter your enemy, to drive him before you,
to see his cities reduced to ashes, to see those who love him shrouded in tears,
and to gather into your bosom his wives and daughters."
- Genghis Khan
People with two first names are douchebags and can't be trusted.
>>48257810
What an idiotic post
>>48247011
t. lawful stupid
>it's a "let's ignore the fact than any trope can be good or bad depending on its execution" thread
>>48255100
Herostratos scenario, huh?
>>48257907
he's right, tho
>>48246179
>Trying to defend yourself again walking corpses is morally wrong.
Morally superior people would let themselves get eaten.
>>48246179
Tough shit, we got paid to do a job and we're going to complete it. We even offer a special deal where if you think you're going to be killed before we have a chance to succeed our mission, you can pay up front and we'll continue on after your death.
It costs a lot more to cover unexpected expenses, often times we require the client to leverage a significant portion of their wealth against the event of their death in addition to the premium we charge for the service.
So, yeah, we try to avoid taking on anything world ending but if the entire world could be ended *just* by us putting this orb in a statues hands, well maybe it deserves to end in that case.
We've saved the world twice by technicality so far, once by stabbing a dude as soon as the contract was complete, and we've plane-shifted to a new world after accidentally nuking one.
4 campaigns spanning 1000 years as members of a Merc company, 2 low fantasy, one "modern" fantasy with guns and shit, and a fourth where we established The Brotherhood of Steel and Applied Explosions in a high fantasy world after we fucked up in the modern fantasy.
Turns out our "escaping due to technicalities" kind of tweaked the DM and so on the third one we experienced "No, nukes DON'T kill everything" and he expected us to lawyer our way out of that one instead of trying to nuke Shub-Niggurath.
>>48257952
Yes, now let us bitch and moan for a while more
>>48257662
If slaughtering people, causing wars, and oppressing reasonable freedom for a chance of a better world, I don't think I want to live in his world.
>>48249343
There's two ways of looking at it. Even if you did it for good intentions, you did a crime of murdering the royal family, and you'll pay for it with your life.
Or, if you don't think you should be punished for killing them, let's look at the precedent. OH LOOK, there's precedent in killing the leader of a country and getting away scott free if you think killing him will make the world a better place. Guess what I'm going to do now, oh pretty little dictator? Here's a hint: It's getting away with murdering you in cold blood because I think the world will be better with you six feet underground.
Anybody have the screencap of the story about the BBEG be an ancient wizard in a golem/warforged body whose whole evil plan involved breaking into a tower that he thought his family was sheltering in?
That was a pretty good example of the antagonist being "somewhat" good the whole time
>>48246179
I don't give a fuck. You try to kill me, you die. If you do it for some "righteous" excuse, all the more reason to kill you.
>>48248493
did he died
>>48259476
wow dude are you 12?
>>48258579
Did you still nuke it?
>>48257374
I applaud your practicality, but quipping to an audience of dead people is kinda creepy.
>>48252754
>Be me
>Plague doctor out yo find the source.
>Been on the trail of the source, so close I can taste it.
>The outbreaks are even starting to occur as I arrive.
>Try to help as many of the sick and comfort the dying the best I can before my trail can go cold, only right thing to do
>This group of adventurers have started following me, might be able to help.
>*whiff*
>...Crossbow bolt nearly missing head says otherwise.
>After a short bout, realize I need to leave if I want to reach next town, let the Bitch Ass Party live for now.
>>48246179
>The party disagrees with what the GM considers bad
>>48261825
>Head to next town.
>No sign of plague yet...
>Never mind, guy with obvious signs of fucked walks past.
>Seems this plague invokes necrosis, I realize.
>Source may be a necromancer or even a Lich trying to gather forces by making more dead to raise.
>Find out a shady man had been through
>Try to ease the dying for a bit, learning piecemeal of where the conjurer of this plague resides this moment
>Nobody seems to know where exactly slim shady went.
>Oh my entire pantheon one guy actually thought to keep an eye on sketchy shady guy and knows where he is
>*thunk*
>Bitch Ass Party again
>And they killed my only source on the exact location of the source before he actually said it MOTHERFUCK
>Try my best to kill them, even chugging a few of my elixers to DO AT LEAST ONE OF THEM IN.
>Manage to down 2 before deciding I don't wish to waste any more of my limited resources.
>Skedaddle.
>I wonder if I'm pissing them off more than anything.
>I need to move on.
>the party brings modern morality and political thought into a game set in XII century.
>>48261965
>After a dangerous trek through some dark, likely cursed woods, I reach Salvation.
>Literally.
>Town's name us Salvation.
>People seem uneasy around me, almost distrusting.
>No need to worry about that.
>I need to find info.
>People aren't talking.
>I resorted to good old back alley interrogations to find out what the fuck is wrong with people here.
>Also to find shady the plaguefuck.
>Turns out BAP thinks I'm the one spreading the plague, sent out a messanger to warn next town of me.
>My target may know they have somebody trying to stop him
>May have skipped this town.
>Perhaps if I trace his path I can find his next destination by pattern.
>tfw party members that are chaotic evil in a good aligned party
>party is travelling down the road
>3 bear cubs come out from behind the bush
>they are chasing each other and playing around
>we stop, start looking at the cubs and saying how cute they are
>druid starts feeding them and petting them
>Momma bear comes out from behind us
>starts roaring
>all of us stand aside, clearing a path between us and her babies except for the rogue
>Rogue: ''I stand my ground''
>you fucking wat
>combat starts
>druid and ranger refuse to fight, Paladin is trying to calm down the bear
>rogue sneak attacks it, kills it
>druid and ranger are fucking pissed
>Rogue: ''I kill the cubs''
>ranger aims his bow at the rogues head
>Paladin says ''You aren't killing anyone''
>Rogue player starts complaining the party is turning on him for no reason
>we explain that he is in a party with 2 people that are very close to nature, and a Paladin which is sworn to uphold good and acts of kindness
>''Yea well I am chaotic evil that's what my character would do''
>runs off while we tend to the cubs
He tried to get revenge on us later, we ended up killing his character in self defense and he stopped playing with us. Sometimes I fucking hate this hobby.
>>48262104
Good riddance.
also
>aiming bow at head
>aiming bow
>at head
Nigger. You don't aim a bow. If you've drawn it right, i.e. to the ear you can't even aim in the same mechanical way you point a gun at something. It's very much instinct based on knowing how a bow is aimed. Moreover, it seems your ranger was holding his bow drawn, which you never ever do because it tenses your muscles and weakens the draw.
You draw and shoot, draw and shoot. Never hold.
then we have aiming at the head.
why
it's a bow
you hit them with a broadhead, which is designed to rip and tear blood vessels apart
why would you aim for the head
muh bows
muh welsh pride
fuck you
>>48248147
my takeaway from that movie was it was not about one man's loss of control or his sanity, or about the cop trying to bring him down, but that L.A. sucks.
>>48262042
>I seems I chose a good time to leave the previous town.
>Townsfolk began pointing the Bitch Ass Party in my direction.
>Had to pay stablemaster just to get my horse back after paying to get it in the stables.
>Probably got ripped off on both ends.
>I need to either kill them or explain what is happening.
>Wait for them on the trail between towns.
>Explain to them that I'm looking to destroy the source of the plague like them.
>"So you were trying to cure the plague all along, not spread it? You were at all the plague sites to try and study its effects, not because you had just introduced it to the population? But our mission to track down the cause of the plague was public knowledge, well known to the victims. Why try to kill us at all?"
"Because your bitch asses were ruining my own investigations, and made me lose my trail. Hopefully it hasn't gotten cold yet."
>BAP join me in my investigations.
>Thank fuck I got them, too, since it turned out it was a Lich.
>Everything turned out better than expected .
>Learned a lesson on responding with reason instead of aggression.
>Yadda yadda yadda.
>Probably would have been easier if they didn't have faces so stupid I honestly thought they wouldn't understand what "I didn't cause this, you stupid fucks" meant.
And that's why you don't dump stat Charisma.
>>48262191
You aim it as a threat. Who gives a shit what the bow's designed to do, of if you're weakening your draw? It's a longbow at point blank range to the face. It's gonna fuck you up either way.
>>48247059
Love.
Personally, I think when done right the 'good guy, super cool friend is actually the villain' is better than 'bad guy is really a good guy'.
>mfw the super chill Elf that helps my party out is not only the king of elves but also litteralyHitler and planing the downfall of every other race and just about everything he's got them to do furthers his plans
>mfw the Alves (Drow) while going out kill people, making painting with their skin and blood and paving the roads of their city with the bones of men,dwarf,elf and orc alike are more accepting and kinder then the Elves
>>48256333
>>48256086
>>48256067
it makes sense
but it doesn't make sense
still in top 5 anime
C.C. is best
>>48262427
> it doesn't make sense
Lelouch is alive though and that's what important
>>48262461
>lelouch is alive
>mfw it makes sense that a code is never destroyed, only transferred
>mfw he's got a giant scar in the shape of a Geass sigil on his chest because that is where he died from and the only wound a Code can't heal is the one that killed you in the first place
>mfw he and C.C are running around the world doing fluffy things, occasionally stopping in to see their niece Anya and her parents Syako and Jeremiah on their orange farm
>mfw everyone actually got a good end
nigga that shit is kawaii as fuck
>>48262269
sticking a bow in a man's face is about as threatening as jamming a gun in his face. It's all cock and swagger, but it's aiming at a small and very mobile target since it's not a core part of the body.
>>48246800
>Then come over and we'll talk over some beers and let both sides speak.
And that is when you lock the building from the outside and burn it down shooting anyone who escapes. While they are still reeling from the loss of their leaders you launch a brutal offensive against the enemy exterminating entire villages. The fleeing refugees will clog up roads slowing down anyone attempting to actually combat you.
>>48262584
>As far as Nunally knows her brother, father, mother, and her entire family are dead
>Still a cripple
Nunally sure as hell didn't get a happy ending
>>48262626
Yeah, but more important is the symbolism. It's not 'I will shoot you in the head', that's avoidable. But it's 'If you continue your course of action, there will be blood'. It's saying "Stop that shit before I fight you" without using words.
>>48257731
>>"Well, you forgot the ROYAL BASTARD."
Is that a title? Is it like the Royal Scribe but shittier?
>>48262709
there are ways to do it without making yourself look like an idiot
Ever watch Dogs of War? Remember the beginning where there's one of the mercenaries in the aisle of the DC-3 waving a knife around to threaten the pilots? Don't be him.
>>48262677
she got 'zero', still have Nina, Shirly, Kallen possibly, Kaguya and Tianzi possibly, Rivlaz and Cornelia. maybe even a brown haired purple eyed kid that hangs around the palace.
it's not as bad as you think, and why would she want Charles to be around? or even the other imperial family who im sure are going to be stabbing her in the back after their geass wore off.
>>48262756
>she got 'zero',
Zero isn't anybody's friend though. Its like having Batman, sure its cool I guess but its not like having a brother.
>Shirly
Dead
>Rivlaz
Go to hell Rivalz!
Still a shit plan overall if the goal was to make her happy. Lelouch probably should have tried to get back to Britannia or some shit.
>>48262806
Lelouch was making a world where she will be safe, not where she will be happy. He succeeded
>>48262806
>dead
shit, i actually forgot about that. been a while since ive seen it, and Shirley was always a weak character
>zero isn't anybodies friend
we clearly see him escorting her around to all the public events in the epilogue, and it is clear that they have a close relationship
>lelouch should have tired to go back to Britannia
sure, that is a great idea anon
>>48262709
Yeah, but you'd better be certain you can pull a second arrow quickly because you've just threatened someone's life in a way that isn't actually that dangerous.
>>48251136
Why are they all little girls in skirts
Also why would anyone play with an evil character
Pagan Min did it right.
Enjoy the Crab Rangoon!
>>48247643
I think MTG did it as well in the Agents of Artifice book. Jace swapped minds and memories with a friend that looked just like him, so when Jace was "assassinated" it was actually the other guy since his would be assassin was killing himself without realizing it. Not a villain, but still a moral laps in my opinion.
>>48247059
Because if the plan is crazy, and suceeds, then it will be glory for eternity.
If failure, it was crazy enough to enjoy the ride.
>>48263338
>Why are they all little girls in skirts
because such skirts do not restrict movement
>>48262247
That seriously is pretty much the point of the movie.
Dfens is the monster that city created.
More likely he was the "hero" the city generated for itself. The shitty, shitty, hero.
>Dfens is the unwitting subject of a CN god's attempt to create a paladin.
>>48263940
I hope you're having fun, at least.
>>48247011
>>"If you kill me then you'll be just like me!!!"
bonus points if the heroes have already slaughtered their way through rank after rank of the villians minions before hand. Dark Lord Satan-Hitler gets to live and mend his ways, but random stormtrooper #1-178? Clearly they were past redemption and don't deserve the same mercy as their boss.
>>48247011
No, (You) suck
>>48265351
>using the you meme invented by /s4s/
>>48246179
Am I supposed to read that left to right or right to left?
>>48265410
I read it left to right becasue I kinda figured that heart was sort of punctuation mark and there's no period after badge in the leftmost bubble, but by having the second part be in a second bubble it implies a slight pause, so if the phrase were written out in a non comic book format it'd be "You get the Basic Badge, because you're a Basic Bitch."
buuut I could see it working the other way too...
>>48263940
Not you again. Fuck off already, it's called 4CHAN for Christ's sakes.
>>48265984
Nah, I'm pretty sure it's you. You were telling some other fellow to "die in a fire," followed by "die in a river," so I'm willing to bet that somebody saying "die in a river fire", following the same syntax, as a response to the same thing, incorporating each initial response, is the same person. But seriously though, you're not going to change board culture by being an asshole about it, and you should be aware of that by now. Also, ironic shitposting is still shitposting
>>48246179
Is a Princess Mononoke style evil-because-of-the-corruption-of-man's-industries acceptable?
>>48255896
you mean real life?
>>48262191
hipster /k/ pls go
>>48257367
Hearing is the last thing to go. Assuming you didn't blow his head off, anyway.
>>48270750
>>48270763
wow are you alright, my dude?
do you want to talk about your problems?
>>48247059
What are motivations to be good?
>>48274652
Occasionally people will develop morals that will preclude them from harming others who have done no wrong, or try to help people
Its why you see doctors going into shitholes like syria or western africa and helping people
This idea, as with everything, is a slippery slope though when it comes to acquiring power or the use of arms
Every revolution starts when the ideologue wants to game power to help people, and once they've gained power they use it to gain more power
>>48259654
In case the camera perfectly angled to film his death didn't tip you off:
https://vimeo.com/42953316
>>48246800What that anon is saying is that no one is a monster; monsters aren't real. We choose to perceive our enemies as monsters, and they do the same for us.
>>48246179
Literally every opponent our old GM threw at us
>He was just trying to avenge the death of his little brother!
Yep, but he forgot his "little brother" was a tyranical piece of shit who killed thousands and raped double that
>>48263559
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hlIUrd7d1Q#t=1m23s
The combat miniskirt - truly one of mankind's greatest innovations.
>>48246179
The morality of an NPC always has to do with whether or not they're making life difficult for the protagonists. If yes, they're evil as sin. If no, they're alright.
