(Yes, I just pasta'd the last one)

>>48209224
The description being the same is fine, but you forgot the link to the last thread.

Last thread:
>>48149677

>Any guess when the new starter hits? A friend of mine is interested in the game and wants to start with Haqq.
Their site says early September.

Bakunin Bigdaddies when?

File: speed_art_1_1.jpg (40 KB, 618x240) Image search: [Google]

40 KB, 618x240

>>48206265

No it was a special edition model.

>>48209540
I wish. They seem really solid on paper.

>>48209818
I like a cheap shotgun duo to run up and contest with crazy koalas. Really difficult to remove.

>>48209317

Red Veil is supposed to be coming out in September.

>>48210036
Threadly reminder you can spam perimeter weapons with Baggage.

>>48210036
I like the Red Fury profile. It's armed to the teeth. Plus a Shottie going Duo helps with AP.

>>48210346
Red fury + shotgun seems to be the way to go most of the time. Maybe a solo HMG if you want a long range rambo in bakunin but aren't willing to fork out 90 points for a Lizzy.

File: 1466809353924.png (812 KB, 918x525) Image search: [Google]

812 KB, 918x525

>>48210163
Yup, its order intensive, then one palbot ruins your whole stupid strategy.

>>48210500
My favorite spot removal in Bakunin is Kusanagi with Spit in Haris or Prowler with Spit.

Stacking camo/cover/supriseshot is pretty beastly.

>>48209818
Is Red Veil replacing Aug or July releases?

>>48211012

Mayacast said that is it for July plans. Just red veil, Musashi, and Unknown Ranger.

No word on Aug

File: 639x306.jpg (109 KB, 639x306) Image search: [Google]

109 KB, 639x306

>>48211278
Hope we start seeing some HS profiles in August.

Sukeul, Taskmaster, Ayyad would be nice.

>>48211012
For July release

>>48211373

You spelled Marauders, Minutemen, and Mavericks boxes wrong.

which faction would be good for a new player? I know that ariadna is good, but I don't have the money to buy 30 models. Am looking for something like 10 models to start with, am ok with buying singles, but I wouldn't want to buy a big box to just get one model.

>>48211720

Honestly, all the factions are fine to start with. Pick the one that aesthetically appeals to you or has gameplay mechanics that sound fun. People say that Combined Army is a rough army to get started with, but that's where I started. If you're dead set on a 10-model force, then PanO, Yu Jing, ALEPH, and CA come to mind as factions that can do that sort of elite list relatively easily.

>>48211807
I do not know much about mechanics and I do not have a way to learn them from someone without an army. I do not care much about looks, but I would like an army that is hard to build as I don't have a drill to pin models.
I don't think aleph is an option right now, because 3 people already started to play them.
What is the difference, in game play, vs Yu jing? and which can be made cheaper. Am assuming the big robots cost a lot more then normal models and require pining.

>>48211720
This website has good ways to grow to 300 vanilla fairly cheaply:

http://www.ctinfinity.com/new-gallery

They haven't done the sectorials yet though.

>>48211875
To make a 10 order list that works, you need survivability and a link (for order efficiency).

I would recommend Onyx, which is great because it comes in a nice starter box for you (12 models, but whatever):

http://www.gamenerdz.com/infinity-combined-army-first-contact-onyx-force-300-point-army-pack

>>48211875

I'll just give you a faction overview to help you with everyone if that's alright (sans Ariadna since you said you're not interested, and tohaa because I don't know much about them).

ALEPH: super elite army. Can easily spend half their points on 2 or 3 models. Extremely tough due to being hard to shoot and hard to put down (ODD/No Wound Incap). Gets plenty of access to rare/powerful equipment.

Combined Army: Another super elite faction like ALEPH. Has access to lots of rare technology, and has plenty of unique alien gear and alien tricks such as plasma, mind control, guided sniper rifles and so on.

PanO: Do you like shooting? PanO likes shooting. Very high tech faction with lots of great mecha and robots. Have plenty of great and unique Heavy Infantry in the form of the Knights, the most mecha options in the game by far, and plenty of good long range options.

Yu Jing: Their specialty is heavy infantry. Typically a YJ army is comprised of lighter infantry and skirmishers supporting a hard nugget of HI who are your main strike force. Has plenty of rare equipment on power armored guys like invisibility, or being a transformer.

Haqqislam: Premire light infantry faction. They're the second lowest tech faction in the game, but they tend to have lots of guys with crazy biological powers like super jumps, regeneration, impersonation (an incredibly rare ability).

Nomads: elite medium infantry and hacking galore. Nomads also excel at bringing lots of cheap equipment to the match - while each unit might not be as impressive as their counterparts, they make up for it with their hacking and all that cheap, cheap gear.

Hopefully those help. Those are just the vanilla factions, each faction also has multiple 'sub factions' in the form of sectorials, who trade out their unit choices for various advantages such as the availability of certain units and being able to get link teams.

>>48212082
My store doesn't have those whole army boxs, or rather had and sold them to vets, what they sell now are most of the blisters, the 4 model boxs. They also don't have most of the special operation boxs, those with dual faction models.

>>48212055
Thanks had a look at the armies there, but almost all of them have more then 10 models and those that have 10 or 11-12 have those big models. But maybe when the site gets updated, other armies will fit me more.

how would this be
3 fusilers one with a heavy machine gun
1 swiss guard with a multi rifle
1 knight of montessa Lt.
its 146/150 pts,

the only problem with this is that it is 5 models and most armies in our legue have 10 or more.

>>48212455
If they are fielding 10 models in 150 points they are using the cheap stuff.
At the other end, 10 models at 300 points pushed against the AVA of the good models, which is why you'll see the unlimited models show up as cheerleaders and many forces with either a big ATG or two teams.

>>48212552
TAG, that is.

>>48212552
Are there any armies that run 10 mans without an ATG?

Right now we have 5 ariadna players, 3 greeks and I think one guy wants to start islam, and his brother plays japan.

>>48212594

Combined Army could do it the easiest outside of ALEPH particularly if you use the EI aspects at 300 points. YJ and PanO would also be reasonably good at it given that they can field 70ish point models.

>>48212674
Could you give an example list. I did check the army builder, but it is very confusing each army has like 30+ units and most have 2-3 versions one can pick.
At first I wanted to take a force of models armed with snipers and HMG, but that seems to be illegal.

>>48212594
Military Orders and I'm pretty sure ISS can do it too.
Instead of one big TAG you use a 5-man elite HI link.
Some people say spamlists run circles around 10-order list, but a Hospitaller + Joan link is nearly impossible to remove without heavy ordnance.

>>48212714

Sure. So before I post the list I cooked up, the basic list building rules of Infinity are thus:

-Your army must have a Lieutenant
-You must not go over the points limit (duh)
-You must not go over the AVA of units (e.g. if it's AVA 1, you can only have 1 of them).
-You get 1 SWC per 50 points. So a standard 300pt game gives you 6.

There are some other restrictions and such but those are the basic rules everyone has to follow. Example 10 order list:

-Anathematic Lt hacker
-Noctifier (missile launcher)
-Med-Tech Obsidon Mecharoid + 2 slave drones
-Suryat (HMG + Tinbot A)
-Q Drone (HMG)
-Shrouded (forward observer)
-Shrouded (forward observer)
-Ikadron
-Ikadron
-R-Drone

You can copy and paste this army code into army builder (click on the folder with an upwards arrow in the upper right corner) to see what that looks like in army builder:

GwBgjAPgzCIdAmApAVgVJCCcKDsSBCBFVMYJMADiksLNRHyvoKhLXKsuVa1Rkw4ALITaoEnStzq0UIPs1oEwIBmAq4s+Zarnqwm7UPUooyMFhWFj/c5dVFdYfd3UABD0A===

how about something like this
joan of arc lt
2xorder sgt with combi rifle
1xtrauma-doc
1xcrusader spitfire
1xcrusader combi rifle

>>48212097
We actually have a faction overview. Albeit, maybe it needs to be updated for N3.

>>48210036

Is it really worth it if you just Duo shotguns though?

Like my inclination would be to just take 2 Lunokhods for ~50 points

I get the benefits of the SWAST but I think if you aren't gonna take a bursty weapon on at least one of them, they aren't worth it.

What would be the best vendors to go to for preordering Red Veil?

>>48214432
Game Nerdz, at least if you're in the US. No shipping charge.

>>48214432
Yeah gamenerdz's alright. There is also Miniaturemarket, TheWarStore, Infinityharbour

People who's main armies aren't Yu Jing or Haqqislam: Are you buying Red Veil?

I am very much on the fence right now about getting it right now.

>>48215971
I am, and I don't play either faction.

>>48215971

I kinda want it just for the terrain set and the Unknown Ranger not the two factions. However, those are some great minis.

>>48215971
Yeah. I play Haqqislam very often with little to no interest in YJ and I was going to split the box. Well, the ninja sold me and I'm keeping both sides. I'm not sure if I'm starting right away, but I'm definitely looking into collecting. Even got me some of the new ISS stuff

>>48215971
Yes. I own a few models of each, but this will enable me to build 300 fairly easily.

>>48215971
Yup. I've been thinking of starting Haqq ever since Maggie was revealed, and I've delved into vanilla YJ from ISS recently. Probably won't preorder though, I'll wait until I've at least painted some more of my current dudes.

Hello.

Since infinity has a low model count (compared to warhammer and even warmachine) I'm considering building 2 faction and using it as a board game?

Do you think it feasible and reasonably cheap? (~150$ max)

What would you recommend to buy?

File: 638x450.jpg (151 KB, 638x450) Image search: [Google]

151 KB, 638x450

>>48212594
Check out Pan-O.

A few Aquila and Swiss eat up points super fast.

>>48217009
Operation Red Veil. That's exactly what you are talking about. Two factions, terrain, missions.

But infinity gets really fun with people invested in their armies who play on a full sized board.

>>48217009

Operation Red Veil/Icestorm sound exactly like what you're looking for.

>>48217035
I run NCA, 5 man bolt link, Aquila guard, two locusts, a deva leutenant and an engineer or a trauma doc. 300 points and very scary for massed lists to deal with.

>>48217073
>>48217053
thanks! :3

So I have one of the old Squalos. Should I get a new one, as well, or would that make me regret the old one?

>>48216220

Shame the tact bow ninja is crap on the table. Only barely better with KHD.

>>48218927
I find this confusing in a game with so much added detail.

File: 1466280300128.png (590 KB, 750x1290) Image search: [Google]

590 KB, 750x1290

Should I spend 3 SWC on the HMG and Sniper Spetsnaz, or should I pick one and make the other a shotty Super-Commie?

>>48218927
Yeah the tacbow is not a good weapon. Unfortunately the highest burst weapon is her Pistol or Trinity which only works on enemy Hackers. But at least it's the cheapest TO Infiltrating specialist.

>>48219870

4 camo token madness all the way.

>>48220092
Only four? In the right list I'm pretty sure I could take at least 8.

Also, does Marksmanship Level 2 mean it has the abilities of Level 1 or ONLY Level 2?

>>48220324
All numbered skills give the benefit of the previous numbers as well. Holoprojector lv2 lets you use both lv1 and lv2 simultaneously for example. It's why lvx exists.

So Marksmanship lv2 ignores the -3 bs mod for cover and adds shock to your ammo but lvx does neither.

File: advent calender.png (200 KB, 782x436) Image search: [Google]

200 KB, 782x436

>>48220324
>at least 8
Don't be a pussy. Do it.

>>48218927
It's a shitty weapon, but Ninjas shouldn't be in ranged combat at the best of times. Hack and slash was their best tactic before and it's their best tactic now.

I want to see a sniper version of the medikit, wouldn't that be super rad?

>>48220420
Foxtrots are 18 points each? The fuck? Damn, Adriana has some nice units.

>>48220420

Whelp, time to bring along Charontid.

Does anyone has any tips on how to start playing infinity in an already established group?

>>48221197

It's not that hard really. Pick the faction you like and get some models. Drop by the established group and tell them you're a new player. Unless your area is populated exclusively by cunts, they'll be happy to have someone new and you can do some 150 or 200 point games before moving into the normal 300 point games. Or just show up and talk to them first, and get some purchasing opinions from them before getting your minis.

>>48221222
Yeah I kind of a did, but here is my problem. No one wants to teach me how to play. Everyone just plays ITS 300pts, I did try to play a few games, but 210pts vs 300 optmised lists ends in a slaughter of the non fun kind. I mean I get they are all very good at the game, and know all the stats and rules, but it kind of a sucks when people tell you to go faster, when you dont. They tell me to roll when I don't know what am rolling for , and when I try to ask about it they tell me to learn the rules better.
As far as buying goes, they buy most of their stuff online and the store has a mix of old models and stuff no one wanted to buy. I did ask if they could order models I want, and they said ok, as long as I order 300$.

Ah it is not like they are bad people, I know they won a lot of tournaments playing WM and w40k, and even went to big events in other countries. So they aren't bad. I just want to know if there is a good way to learn the game alone, and start a low number model army without all the new models, as most armies have run anything between 20-30+ models.

>>48221314

Well I meant what to order as like a shopping list. Gamenerdz is a good site to get your stuff from since they're about as cheap as it gets. But those guys sound like jerks since they're making it pretty hard to get into it. Infinity is hard and takes a long time to learn so they shouldn't be that rough on you.

How to learn alone? That's tough if you don't have anyone to explain the rules to you. My suggestion would be to look up the Operation: Ice Storm (and soon Red Veil) missions and just play them solo. They're designed for newbies and so they slowly ramp up and introduce new rules and stuff. It'll at least teach you the basics before you have to start dealing with the more complex stuff. After that, familiarize yourself with the rules for command tokens, smoke, and hacking I suppose. Some of the more common special gear/rules you'll encounter. Hacking is much simplified over what it once was though at least.

And that's a REALLY high number of models for an army. Most lists clock in between 10-15 models so you can definitely start a low model army. Some factions do it easier than others but pretty much all of them can run a 10 order list of one sort or another if you want to be absolutely bare bones. But that can be a bit tricky to learn with.

>>48221348
>they won a lot of tournaments playing WM and w40k
That doesn't mean they're not bad people. If anything that means they're probably bad people.

Watching Batreps on youtube could help you out, but I'd look for another group if possible. 20-30 models in an army makes for a painfully slow and boring game. 10-15 is standard at 300 points. Those guys sound like complete cunts.

>>48221314
>>48221348
They sound like cunts. I am so sorry. Any normal person would run you through a few games. I love running beginners through games. I've probably run through icestorm 20 times.

>>48221314

Wait are you saying you ask someone to teach you a game and they played with more points than you because you didn't have enough models and then complained when you took longer than normal.

Holy shit what a bunch of assholes.

>>48221314
>Yeah I kind of a did, but here is my problem. No one wants to teach me how to play. Everyone just plays ITS 300pts, I did try to play a few games, but 210pts vs 300 optmised lists ends in a slaughter of the non fun kind.
Ugh, those kind of dicks. Isn't there a warcor around? If they play in tournaments, there should be a warcor around and those guys are supposed to teach new guys how to play.
200 vs 300 shouldn't be happening, ever. In every game you agree to a point limit and stick to it. Everyone should start at 200pts no Spec-Op and the more experienced player should recognize that and help the other guy along.

Is it at all a good idea to put an AD unit on its own in a combat group, walk it on then use a command token to shift it over to group 1 later?

>>48222663
It's pretty common practice, yeah.

>>48222702
It does work then, good.

Next tactical question - should I go for a Combi Rifle or BSG Garuda?

>>48222746
Both are good. Depends how much terrain you guys have. BS Garuda is murder at close range, but Combi is more versatile.

>>48222746
That depends on what you want to do with it. The BSG can effectively flank and kill an important unit or several cheerleaders in one fell swoop, while the combi can lay down suppressive fire in an inconvenient location and make the enemy waste orders removing or avoiding it.

File: Twitter9b33786.jpg (128 KB, 723x357) Image search: [Google]

128 KB, 723x357

New Snipershot. Looks like a big armorpiece.

>>48222833
There is also the fact that Garuda is hackable, meaning the combi might shoot hackers and repeaters at optimal range more safely.

>>48222885
Looks a little like PanO backpack.

>>48222794
>>48222833
My FLGS tables tend to have very open backfield areas with lots of dense cover in the middle - it makes Van Zant a right cunt.

Combi is probably the best bet. The chance to wipe the smile off the faces of people who leave medics and engineers at the backfield with buddy bots humping the leg of a TAG or HI will be glorious.

File: 570234903d153_14-BlackFriarsDossier2015Gris.jpg.f08ee3b221e67c8314e3ce65c7afa742.jpg (124 KB, 800x566) Image search: [Google]

124 KB, 800x566

>>48222885
I'm guessing Black Friar

>>48222924
Looks kinda like the shoulderpiece.

>>48222885
>>48222924
Might be.
If so, I hope it's the Multi Rifle one.
If not I'm getting the PanO Spec Op and hope he's holding the MSR in one hand.

>>48222949
I'm going to guess the MR option will be later possibly in a new MO starter.

>>48222885
Giraldez posted a censored image earlier, it had a chunk of blue in it. I'm guessing Black Friar(s).

File: 13627058_797178960611_582889653257359850_n.jpg (43 KB, 960x539) Image search: [Google]

43 KB, 960x539

From the Haqqislam facebook group.

Certainly a lot of stuff for such a big guy.

>>48222984
I think it's a given he'll be in the MO starter, but I'd hope it'd be the sniper one, to follow a trend; it seems about half the starters now have a sniper model in them.
I also hope that they replace the Teuton with a Father-Knight (maybe ML) or a combi+DEP Holy Sepulchre; one is non-order and the other you're likely to want just one of, regardless of your main order. I think they messed up a bit by making it Teutonic, especially when Hospitallers are supposedly the largest order.
Or preferably they just rework the Teutons into something playable. Like give them Core: Special with Magisters and/or Order Sergeants if you're going to restrict their ability to link with each other. Being a fairly cheap BS14 HI just doesn't cut when compared to their competition.

>>48223426
>BTS 6
Wait, what?

>>48223426
Well holy shit that guy must be well over 50 points

>>48223496
53 from what the chatter on the fb page is.

>>48223467
The MO starter might contain a Magister or it might contain a Friar, it could go either way. They've got to fit an infiltrator/drop troop and a heavy hitter in there as well, so I doubt it will have both.

I still have no idea what the fuck happened with Teutons. Especially since it's possible they'll be part of the next PanO sectorial.

>>48222885
Please not the Black Friar... Ugh. I don't want to buy a fucking model that I don't like the concept of just so I can use the profile...

>>48223480
This is the Caliphate. I would have been surprised if he hadn't received that BTS bump/

>>48223615
Yeah, I'm not entirely sure which role does the Magister fit myself. Usually a starter has 3 regular blokes, a heavy hitter, a skirmisher and a support guy. And frankly both support and skirmisher roles would be fulfilled by the Spec Sergeant. I suppose giving him a sniper would make him the Support, which would make him the one to be replaced by a Black Friar. Magister would share the spot with a non-sniper TO Spec Sergeant or a Crusader.

>>48223840
Magister is support. That's the most broad role, skirmishers need to have some sort of special deployment and it's too cheap and shitty to be the hitter.

>>48222924
I believe this is correct.

>>48221314
These guys sound like assholes. Whereabouts?

Awesome, I just finished my Black Friar proxy, so this is perfect timing lol.

>>48223426
I like it.

File: scout ariadna.jpg (46 KB, 500x550) Image search: [Google]

46 KB, 500x550

>>48209317
My starter should arrive on thursday

>>48224487
It won't

>>48224537
Fingers crossed.
We'll see.

>>48224565
did you order from CB? If so, good luck. my RVZ took two months to arrive.

>>48224608
Yes, directly from CB. Warcor offer. Already got confirmation from UPS.

>>48224681
Lucky you

File: 13533159_10209280477516274_7057226279819244531_n.jpg (113 KB, 960x960) Image search: [Google]

113 KB, 960x960

More pics from manga incoming:

File: 13592701_10209314828335023_719929548617406328_n.jpg (102 KB, 960x960) Image search: [Google]

102 KB, 960x960

>>48224804

>>48218927
The tac bow is only there to lower the price of the ninja. Using a combi on a ninja is a losing strategy, for starters. Remember, the only other KHD in the army is the Kanren, for the same number of points, and seeing as it's AVA1, you might want to use it for other duties (like being a sniffer buddy or FO). Now, 29 points is still a fairly hefty price tag, but TO + infiltration + DA CCW does allow it to tie down rambos if you can get proper deployment.

Do we know the contents of the YJ starter in Red Veil?

It looks like 3 Celestial Guard but that would mean the starter requires you to play Imperial Service? Seems odd.

File: 13615177_10209319509172041_1881845917160800083_n.jpg (140 KB, 960x960) Image search: [Google]

140 KB, 960x960

>>48224816

>>48224840
CGs have helmets, these guys don't.

Content are as follows:
3 Zhanshi with combi rifles
Zuyong with MULTI rifle
Tiger Soldier with assault hacking device
Hsien with HMG
Ninja with tactical bow

File: Zhanshi.jpg (201 KB, 1280x722) Image search: [Google]

201 KB, 1280x722

>>48224840
It is 3 Zhanshi.

>>48223480
Lots of HI are BTS 6 nowadays. Though 4-2 move is interesting though, and given a ~53 point-ish breakpoint, makes it more similar to a Yan Huo than other HI.

Comparatively, it's +1PH, +1WIP, +3 BTS compared to a Yan Huo, has sixth sense, vet, and minelayer, and better secondary utility in smoke/AP mines and a heavy pistol for the same price. Conversely, it doesn't have HRMC or dual ML (+neurocinetics) which makes it less effective against hard targets or links.

>>48224840
3 shitters zhanshi a hsien a tiger soldier a zhuyong and another shitter ninja with shitbow

>>48224876
Ballin, thought that I had to be wrong on that one. Looks like an even more certain purchase to me.

>>48224897
I'd say it's functionally closer to a Taskmaster, despite the difference in speed. Yan Huo are pure weapons platforms, much like Azra'il. Al Fasid are board control units, hence the mines and smoke grenades.

>>48224898
The shitbow comes completely free, so it's not all bad. You shouldn't actually be using it anyway.

Sadly, there is nothing said about the shasvastii rework recently?

>>48224998
The next book will have it
Though when the next book is coming is anyone's wild guess

How could the tacbow be improved considering it's very low point cost?

>>48225018
I want to start a shasvastii army so fucking bad. I got into the game last year and I was going to my first army but heard about the rework

>>48225053

It shouldn't be more than a year out considering they've been working on it for awhile now but CB is notorious for delays.

>>48224817

Makes the worst TO infiltrator somewhat cheaper by limiting them even more to their extremely situational melee crap. Something which even the guy on BoW didn't even bother with even given the chance.

>>48225302
Why the fuck are these Panamanians so fucking bad at cc taxing shit?
Like wtf?

>>48225302
The idea is to make a situation for the melee crap yourself. It's not that hard to do with a TO infiltrator, and the results can be downright nasty against non-CC troops. Never underestimate a hidden deployed ninja near a chokepoint.

>>48222595
well they only play 300 ITC games, either they play them at tournaments or they test stuff for tournaments. That is more or less any game is played here. They don't play smaller armies, I doubt they even have under 300pts armies bought.

>>48222604
I don't think my shop has a warcor on sale. Weren't they limited edition gencon models or something?

>>48221462
I don't think there are many people play smaller then 20 order armies here. From what I have seen all are that, or more, with the factions that can spam stuff being more popular then other.

>>48225552
http://infinitythegame.com/warcors.php

Yeah, finding a different group seems like a good course of action. Your current one appears to be full of WAAC cunts who suck the fun out of everything they play. They're probably netlisters too.

>>48225649
There are no other people playing infinity in a different way, all 3 stores have people with same sized armies. The difference is that one store only runs tournament games, one has people who do not play people outside their store, and the third store where they play anyone, beause they have fewer people.

It is not just infinity, WM/H, and w40k are played the same way here.

>>48225882
See if you can saturate the third store with a bunch of other casuals. Either that or burn all of them to the ground and begin anew.

Remember to use TR remotes and bring plenty of template weapons.

>>48224804
>>48224816
>>48224848
Woah damn, pretty cool.
Can't wait for this to come out and hopefully be good, just so I can post about Infinity in /co/ as well.

The guy in the third pic has a Nomad rifle.Chances of seeing a Chimera improving

>>48226006
We don't realy have such a thing as casual players. Table top games cost too much for people to buy bad stuff, so most people buy only the best armies with best units, and make everything legal to win. So no helping people outside of their team. My problem is that out of 4 friends I played with 3 left for summer,and out of those 2 are not comming back, because they went to work in germany.

>>48225302
>>48225499
Well, on a full table ganking an Aquilla Guard that moved out to hunt with your infiltrated ninja is sweet as fuck.

>>48226006
>>48226115
Tr remote and 3 sin eaters.

Bakunin a best troll

Doiiit

>>48226115
One thing about Infinity is that there's no autowin buttons like there is in 40k and WM. I agree with the other guy, play very defensively and laugh as the enemy walks into your meat shredder.

>>48224848
Wow that picture accurately describes most of my experiences with oniwabans

Our YJ player is pretty fucking fierce with the TO slice'n'dicers

Did anyone try already to cast some infinity minatures. Since CB took all the line infatry blisters out of the catalogue, and since you actually have to buy multiple starter boxes to max out order monkeys, I was thinking about giving it a try for my next army.

Actually I thought about going Caledonia and casting the old caledonian volunteers with chain rifles, as well as some 45th highlanders with chain rifles, and maybe also the Christopher Lambert guy. What do you think ?

>>48227596
Oy vey, is good idea!

>>48225302
It's relative. You're running YJ, not Tohaa or Pan-O; your TO comes in two varieties: ~70 points for your Hac Tao, or 30-50 points for your ninjas. While the former can shoot and bunker down and possibly do hacking, the latter really can't.

After the KHD tac-bow, The next cheapest TO specialist in your entire army is at 40 points (and shock CCW is significantly worse than DA anyway). 11 points is a lot especially if you're wasting them on zhanshi. Besides, ninjas are, by definition, situationally effective. They have BS11 and ARM 1, BTS 0. They're not going to be winning firefights.

>>48226115
>>48225552
>best armies with best units
>20 order armies here

These things are (usually) mutually exclusive. While having two few orders is a death sentence, there's significant loss of efficiency once you get above 16 for most armies, and above 20 even for spammy ones.

Depending on how dense your terrain is, strong ARO setups (or even powerful Rambo ones) will shred into very high order pool lists.

>>48227887
Just stop trying to take our TO units and take our amazing camo units instead. Guilangs are amazing.

>>48228028
Well, yes, you're going to be running at least one Guilang in almost every list, probably with his best buddy Daofei, but if your heart is set on taking a TO unit in YJ, a ninja KHD's not that terrible a choice. Now, obviously, your game plan's going to be pretty different, but at 29 points it's certainly feasible to throw it into a 300 point list and still have Guilang, 1 or 2 HI, your standard assortment of CG + kuang shi and specialists, and still have 12+ orders.

hum... had my funny day, thought about something like this. would be 40 orders, and wallace would make all of them regulars and they all have a more than decent close combat attribute, and all have smoke. Would be a dedicated close combat army.

[url=http://army.infinitythegame.com/index.html?l=MwBgTAPqIRCMAWApGAHGJBOdSCEmUB2QrQkPAsY08/IkzMi+m5qhpu91r6x2yn06CO5AAIiek/myECWM3qNnKlUhcI3zuMsXBQA2ApmAZc+sEaym8FqybN3jN84ednpmnV7kr138U9tXzVFIL8wrQjOAyJkTAN9XFiqeMSkIA===]Open in Infinity Army[/url]

File: 300 points funny caledonians.pdf (1 B, 486x500) Image search: [Google]

1 B, 486x500

this list:

>>48227951
most people here play ariadna or steel phalanx.

So, what are you painting?
I spent nearly whole day painting a Custodier and a Wildcat from start to finish. I'm too tired to do a photo session for them though and phone pictures are too blurry to show anything.

>>48229445

Bring it only against a really good friend, that list would suck to play against given how long it would take to move all those minis and do all the AROs.

>>48229493

While Ariadna can hit 20 orders without too much trouble, they do still need to sacrifice effectiveness. And a 20 order SP list would be toothless.

>>48229561

Working on my Hassassin force. Painting them is easier than playing them whoof have no idea how to approach list building. Played my first game with them recently but it was against a Marut list. Complete stomp, conceeded top of turn 2.

>>48229604


shure ;-) it's more a joke than a list. but with the extremely impetuous thing it's nearly 80 orders in the first turn ;-) besides: Wallcae grants you furthermore an coordinated order almost for free every turn (You may declare a Coordinated Order that includes the user by spending the Special Lieutenant Order only, without further expenditures of Command Tokens or extra Orders. )

>>48229604
I don't know, most ariadna have over 20 orders here, and they seem to run events just fine, form what I heard, and am assuming the guys would not lie about armies they actualy own and do not want to sell. Now if they had 20+man armies and wanted to sell, I would be suspicious, but to be honest this is not the first time I am told that we play table tops in a different way.

I'll try to get enough models to play a 10 order army, I like how some of the models look, but no factions has enought o play with 10 models. Or it is 10 models I know would suck, if they made an army.

>>48229445
>England_still_won.pdf

>>48229784
>I'll try to get enough models to play a 10 order army, I like how some of the models look, but no factions has enought o play with 10 models. Or it is 10 models I know would suck, if they made an army.

You'll figure it out eventually, hopefully you can still have fun with that local group. As for 10 order armies those are a little tight but absolutely doable. PanO, Yu Jin, Combined Army, and ALEPH can all make that sort of list relatively easily. 10 orders is a perfectly valid way to play. They can be pretty fun because it usually means you get to take a bunch of your best units in one list.

File: invincible powers.jpg (757 KB, 936x638) Image search: [Google]

757 KB, 936x638

>>48229561
Well, since I have too much fun with just placing my minis next to each other, here's a quick snap with the shitty camera.
Entire team done; the second one from the right was today.

File: why did they pose the ORC like that in the first place.jpg (571 KB, 853x562) Image search: [Google]

571 KB, 853x562

>>48230120
And here's a familiar scene with today's Custodier.

>>48229604
I can manage a USAriadna list of 10 orders.
It eats SWC and AVA, but I can do it.

File: FK.jpg (257 KB, 1306x980) Image search: [Google]

257 KB, 1306x980

>>48229561
I want to finish this knight soon (probably as in Corvus Belli soon)...
I'm glad how the paintjob goes so far.

>>48230162

Oh yea it's not impossible just trickier for Ariadna. I saw someone in my league run a 12 order 'elite' USARiadna army recently for fun.

>>48230136
Get back to drawing; Your PanO minis are horrifying.

>>48226144

No idea why an Aquila cheese would conviently move up front for that to matter, especially when he has a HMG. And even if ninja somehow gets into melee, *yay* for doing lower damage most non-pistols.

>>48225499

Well good luck to that.

File: 1445066496555.png (655 KB, 1280x1880) Image search: [Google]

655 KB, 1280x1880

>>48230120
>>48230136
A few tips you may or may not want to consider.
That orange on the bases looks really horrifying. Make'em black and try different colors for the actual basing, plain black doesn't look pretty nice either.
You're using way too much black wash. Try to use less and distribute evenly.
Don't use pure whites but mix it with a little bit of grey first and only drybrush the highlights with whites.
I can tell that you're stroking the brush in multiple different directions while painting an area. Try to stroke only in one direction.
Ah, and thin your paints.
Good luck and keep up the work. Have some Robutt because I feel like it.
Infinity really needs more nice asses on their tanks.

>>48230747
I meant TAG's. Tank butts would be pretty weird, eh.

>>48229445
>"Funny"
>The list that's been posted approximately 70 times before

>>48230747
>Ah, and thin your paints.
I always get this for some reason. Believe it or not the paints are super-watery when I paint. To the point where I have a hard time controlling it a lot of the time. The paint is not thick, it's not well distributed, it spills over, making it look like I used too much. That's what I get for not using an airbrush.

As for black wash: it's the highly contrasting light in the photo, the washes are mostly blue. I've only used black wash on the blue parts; some of the Wildcats have black wash on their pants, but I was trying to be considerate with it and I switched to blue since. I do overuse washes though and I still have a hard time of getting the white right. I do use grey and just glaze with white over it and yet I can never get it right.

I should also get some ultra thin brushes, the ones I used are too worn down and I can't get nice thin lines in those crevices with the ones I have. But I have no idea where to get one.

As for the orange on the bases: I know it's awful, but I've chosen function over aesthetic here; bright orange is easy to see on most tables, so you always know the miniature's facing. Same reason why on the PanO ones it's light gray with blue.

>>48225485
Melee should be limited and deadly when it happens.

CB does a great job achieving those goals.

>>48230896
I said that as a joke, desu. But you shouldn't thin your paints that much either. I use acrylic paint thinner and mix it in ~1:0.8 ratio with the actual paint depending on the consistency of the colour (yes, different colours may have different consistencies).

>That's what I get for not using an airbrush
May the Brushgod have mercy on your soul.

>yet I can never get it right
Practice makes the Craftsmen.

>the ones I use are too worn down
Aye that's a problem. As soon as the point of the brush (dunno what it's called) starts to split you should get a new one. Look after your brushes and try to keep them intact if you don't want to run to the store every two weeks. Guides on how to should be plenty around on the web.
As for the size, 0 is absolutely perfect for the most work you'll be doing on your mini. You can get them at any tinker shop or you know, just try the internet.

Well, the orange bases. Guess I can't change your mind on that. Every man's his own.

>>48218927
Really?

She's really helpfull to me time to time
Especially when her weapons are full on stealth, so as long as you not
on enemy LoS, you never lose your camo in every shot.

Its great when come down in killing the paper armoured speciallist
like Locust and Kanren,
and being a terror of the unknown to opponents.
Giving her KHD makes her more versatile.

My advice is don't take much concern on her burst really,
it make your luck drop.

>>48225552
20+ order armies are not competitive unless you are way over-saturating terrain, especially in deployment zones. There should not be room to hid 10+ models in a DZ without deadly amounts of bunching.

Follow the rulebooks guide to terrain for a few games and everyone will realize that 10-15 orders is optimum.

>>48229422
One decent MSV sniper and you lose.

One over watching ML and you are pulling models off by the handful.

Could be a fun game as long as you don't think it will be competitive.

>>48225552
>I don't think my shop has a warcor on sale. Weren't they limited edition gencon models or something?
No one answered this so:
Warcor is not only a unit but also a CB-approved organizer/demoer/newbie-teacher, like PP's Pressgangers or Wyrd's Henchmen. You can find their list here: http://infinitythegame.com/warcors/warcors_list.php?lang=en

(also, the Warcor in-game unit is available, there's an alternative version that's some bonus for the above-mentioned Warcors)

Any Ariadna player tried to use one of the merc TAGs? Wanted to try something new, and Scarface kinda interests me.

File: interplanetary-customeeple.jpg (61 KB, 640x480) Image search: [Google]

61 KB, 640x480

>>48229784
This is what tables should look like (source: interplanetary).

Do your tables look like this?

>>48231201
Then why bother having cc anything I'd its going to cost an arm and a leg for a rare occurrence?>>48231201

>>48230282
That looks great.

>>48231371
Because despite it being a shooty scifi its still an anime game and that means swords/katana/hammers/etc?

They are goddamn ninja. You expect them to not have CC ability?

>>48230896
Paint in multiple layers then. It's OK to thin your paint so much that it takes 2-3 layers to get good color coverage, OTOH it'll give you a smoother coat.

Also, buy some glaze medium. A bit added to paint makes it behave better (not flow everywhere like a wash) and if you add more you get a nice blur/semitransparent effect which is awesome for smooth highlighting.

I cheat by adding lots to a wash and using a hairryer to avoid getting the "rings" effect. Ifyou do it right you can shade white armor with a black wash.

>>48231371
>N3
>CC cost arms and legs
>being this noob

My domarus slice more Jotums than you

Git. Fuckin. Gud.

>>48231437
I expect their cc weapons skills and abilities to not overprice them if they're barely going to use them

>>48231748

>>>/v/

>>48231775
The problem is its not, ninja will use their CC frequently

its the most effective way killing dudes without alerting the whole fuckin base full of their buddies, TO makes it even better

stop being trigger happy PanCuck if you want to git gud on it

>>48231783
>Hurrr hurr back to veeeeee

Thats why /tg/infinity never good in this game.

>>48231775
That's also Yu Jing's thing. Some dudes are really good at melee, and everyone else is better than average.

I play Haqqislam and I've only made melee attacks with Fidays since most other even CC capable units are just better at shooting

>>48231958
/tg/ is generally pretty shit at games in general

Will there be an Earth sectorial? What would it be like?

>>48232245
You mean Earth bastion? There is a possibility but don't get your hopes up. I'm waiting for O12

>>48232625
>O12
Isn't that kind of ALEPH's job?

>>48231959

>YJ's 'thing'
>every other faction has the same/better shit without paying extra

>>48231900

Playing against noob opponents can only redeem their inherent crappiness so much.

>>48231775
They are not overpriced for how many options they have. I take them all the time and am happy with them in competitive lists.

>>48232245
Earth Bastion Army.

No clue, but probably Sepulcher Knights.

File: First purchases.png (72 KB, 402x426) Image search: [Google]

72 KB, 402x426

is this a good start for shasvastii?

>>48233102
>shasvastii
>good start

>>48232920
Whatever man. I play YJ and its great. If YJ sucks, play a different faction. Idk what to tell you, Ninjas are awesome, and paying an extra point for CC ability on line troopers isn't the end of the world.

>>48233102
Yup, looks like you are hitting some solid choices.

The best things about Shas are:
>Linked Gwailo HRL
>Multiple Nocs
>Multiple Q drones
>Speculo Killers

>>48233110
Fuck you, the shasvastii are cool as fuck.

>>48233132

Holy shit they do get 2 Q-drones. I never knew that. That's bizarre, and absolutely fucking brutal.

>>48233174
He means shas reboot soon fellow space frog

>>48233202
Really? When?

>>48233219
Next book whatever it's called

>>48233219

Next book, whenever that is.

>>48231316
You can't outside of the Anaconda for MRRF

>>48231360
>absolutely no cover on those roads
>not even a fucking waist-high car or trash can.

What are you, European?

>>48233079

Most of those 'options' are terribad at best, and even when at optimum condition (such as it were), they are still FAR less flexible compared to everyone else.

>>48233114

Still pretty shit when you can take those 1pt specialist upgrades due to that CC bullshit. Which does add up.

>>48233253
Scarface works for QK

>>48233322
Then don't run them?

Yu Jing has other options.

>>48233282
Europeans like to reenact WW1.

I'm getting excited about anons 40 caledonians charging a MSV2 in supressive fire down those streets.

>>48233282
There are planters and dumpsters.

Looks fine to me.

>>48233411

Certainly not worth the list space. It does suck to see them being dumped onto new players though.

>>48232920
>YJ Thing
You have a view of faction theme that's primitive even by 40k standards.
Git gud.
>>48233322
Protip: If a single point is making you lose, you suck pretty badly.

>>48231360

It irks me that buildings are not straight.

This could also use some more stuff on the road. This empty spaces look so boring.

>>48234060

>which does add up

Also YJ being the 'HI faction' is now a sad joke with even Haqq getting lol randum HI.

>>48233939
>Certainly not worth
>while it just roll pretty fine by other chinks player

Dude........
Do you....... even play the game?
Because you talk like a theoryhammerfags that not even get involve directly in the game, with only list builder and stats at hand.

But wait, forget it Guges.... you're unsalvageable.

>>48234180

Again, grow out of your infantile notions of what faction has what 'thing' as their 'thing'.

Do you remember 1st edition? When more or less every faction looked more or less the same? Do you whinge about MO losing their character because they got an AD option? Oh man, Nomads got a Viral CCW, that's robbing Hassasins of their character.

And yes, those points can add up.
Protip: If you're losing because of 5 points, you just suck.

New, would-be Steel Phalanx player here. Could someone explain Fire Teams to me using small words? The stuff I can find online is confusing me, and they aren't in the core rulebook which was the only Infinity piece my LGS had. I understand they can only have 4 people in them, and that it makes your Orders more efficient, but how, in specific?

>>48234236

>Doesn't use CG/KS or even 'sots instead like the vast majority of vanilla YJ players

CB apologist pls go.

>>48234330

Hoo boy, those were the days when the CC tax *really* added up.

>>48234330
But in a white void, discounting faction-wide balance and an entire army, it's a whole five points! The Venezuelans have no idea what they are doing.

>>48234180
Yea and most of Kebab HI are mediocore and bland.

Corpocuck HI are just good at shooting and killing, with subpar versability and support.

YJ on the other hand.......
>Not! Crysuit all range TO killer
>MSV boat that not suck at close range and even can give you exta swc
>Not! Terran marines that basically MB rapetrain 2.0
>Much superior chinks Az'rail
>Cheap, 1000 times folded Samurai HI knight a shit
>Super jumpy 1000 times folded Samurai HI

List goes ooon.....

And in the next book, THEY GOT WHOLE ARMY OF THEM!

So suck it Guges and your PanO wanks

>>48234344

They can have a maximum of 5 people, actually. Sectorials sometimes have specific rules and limits and combinations, though, and Steel Phalanx often uses their Eurawhatsits rule, which permits slightly different use of them.

The core idea behind fire teams, is that it's a group of figures, that are all activated with a single order. One of them is the spearhead, which actually does the order, and the rest, while they activate with it, are just there to provide bonuses to the spearhead figure.
3 figures will give the spearhead an extra B. 4 figures will give the spearhead SSL2 and +3 Willpower for discover checks. 5 figures will give the spearhead +3 BS. In the reactive turn, those bonuses apply to all members of the link team. They all have to perform the same action/reaction, however, or the link team breaks.

Normally you can only have a single link team, but special rules like Haris and Euragreekcheese Fireteam: Asparagus Heads allows for extra link teams.

As you can probably guess, having a bunch of figures reacting with 2 shots, sixth sense level 2, and +3 BS can be a powerful defensive obstacle, and those bonuses can be used to great effect on the active turn to overcome difficult targets. Link team bonuses can make weak figures like LI powerful fighters without much of a points investment. The downside is that they have to be close to each other, and thus a single template might horribly damage the team, and killing the spearhead figure breaks the team. Plus, taking 5 of a crappy figure was probably not on the cards UNLESS you had the link team to rely on.

>>48234367
>must use dissssss!!!!!!
>every others do, so are you!

Warmafags, please go back to your containment thread.......

>>48234447
Okay, so. If I give one member of the team the move-and-fire order, do all of them move AND all of them fire, or does the spearhead do the firing and everyone else just sit there? Also, if I have a spearhead built around the character in the ASS starter and have the Myrm hacker in a link (assuming 2-3 other Myrms) can she hack if she's not the spearhead, or do I lose that functionality because not everyone can hack?

>>48234506

They all move, but in the active turn only the link leader gets to push buttons/shoot whatever. But you can elect a new leader each time they activate. So they all get AROs, but only the leader gets non-movement skills in active.

>>48234541
So...What I'm hearing here is a squad of dedicated cheerleaders for one guy, giving not only additional orders but additional bonuses above that. The link team leader being chosen every time they activate is a pretty big deal, though - on the reactive turn, is it just 'whoever was Leader last'? Are there any limits for who can be leader?

Also, how does the greek specific one work differently, other than apparently allowing another link team?

>>48234506
>If I give one member of the team the move-and-fire order, do all of them move AND all of them fire, or does the spearhead do the firing and everyone else just sit there?

In active turn? Yeah only spearhead (i assume what you mean its a link leader)
that can shoot.

>Also, if I have a spearhead built around the character in the ASS starter and have the Myrm hacker in a link (assuming 2-3 other Myrms) can she hack if she's not the spearhead, or do I lose that functionality because not everyone can hack?

If she not the spearhead then no. Only the leader can do some action in active turn.

>>48234462

>be special snowflake
>not use better 2 alternatives (more then some other factions) because 'muh reasons'

>>48234422

The whole point of those wageslave HI is to shoot stuff dead, which they even do at cheapass prices. Plus that whole not sphass-Templar list et al.

>>48234506
In that case, the spearhead would move + fire, and everyone else would move + support, to give the fireteam bonuses.
The hacker can hack, but the rest of the team couldn't support her, as they can't hack, so the order for them effectively fizzles in the hacking part, if I understand this right.

>>48234236
>forget it Guges.
Are we mumbling about a board fixture?

File: First list.pdf (1 B, 486x500) Image search: [Google]

1 B, 486x500

>>48233132
how is this for a shasvastii list?

>>48234583

Yes whoever was leader last is your leader in the reactive turn but other than losing the link it's not as big a deal since they all get their super AROs.

You can read about enomotarchos here: http://wiki.infinitythegame.com/en/Fireteam:_Enomotarchos

big differences: unlike fireteam: core/haris, you can have more than one enomotarchos link in your army. And also unlike Core, Enomotarchos caps out at 4 figures rather than 5

>>48234630
Forget it, Jake, it's Wu Jingtown.

>>48234642
That being where I thought four came from. Excellent. Thank you very much. I'm disappointed I can't score the +3 BS, but I'm sure once I look up what Sixth Sense does I'll be willing to take four. Four doesn't seem so big a deal to me right now, though, because I get MSV 3, which apparently just sees things, fuck you?

>>48234344
I would get the new Human Sphere book anon. Both explains fire teams and has all the ALEPH stuff in it.

>>48234721
After I've paid off my Guild Ball guild and gotten the Myrm box, it's on the list.

>>48234414

>'only' 5 pts

That's 5 FO upgrades there. Or 1 FO/1 KHD. Et al.

And excepting bots and the rare few units, it's way more then 5 pts.

Ah good ole whine jing
How I've missed you so

>>48234701

You don't have access to the Asura (and her MSV3) in an ASS list just so you know.

>>48234754
Ah, I had, indeed, missed that. Thank god. I was not comfortable putting Nipples McGee on the table, no matter how good she was at kicking ass.

>>48234701
SSL2 effectively removes a lot of the bullshit that comes from LOS and token shenanigans. Surprise shots, smoke, attacking from behind, etc. MSV3 is pretty amazing, though, although it's very rare, and is analogous in it's effects. Of course it tends to come at a premium, or at least on premium figures.

>>48234734
Assuming you didn't already buy them, or you even had the figures with the option. It's a very whiteroomy problem at worst. And considering the points value mechanisms and the sophistication of an entire army, to say nothing of comparing figures across armies, the points value boils down to irrelevant compared to list construction skill and player skill.

>>48234765
Considering the way she's sculpted, filing off the bumps isn't hard.

>>48234845
I know, I know. I just don't feel comfortable filing the nipples off anyone, miniature or no.

What would you all suggest buying for Haqqislam after the Red Veil box?

>>48234653
It's Jack. And where's his truck?

>>48234893
Hawwa Hacker
Hunzakut
The Remote Box
Lasiq Sniper
Ragik
Djanbazan
Muttawiah
Naffatun

No particular order.

>>48234893
Naffatun, any of the Hassasins, Djans, or Remotes would be excellent long term purchases.
>>48234891
I suppose clipping probably runs into the same issue.

>>48234893

Those burner boys (and girls) look good for cheap-ish flamethrowers. Saladin AND at least a Fiday if you want to be Super Evil. The bigass TAG is actually pretty reasonable for the pt cost (dunno about $ cost though).

>>48234891

I agree. The very idea of miniature mutiliation is horrid.

>>48230701
Thanks. I have had good luck with that. Never taken down an Aquila with it myself, but my Ninja has engaged and shanked plenty of button pushers and spitfires. Even maimed a Maghariba with her once.

Mind you, I'll happily admit that Ninjas are the worst TO infiltrators in the game. They play a different and less versatile role from other TO dudes, but that doesn't mean they're useless.

>>48234929
>>48234978

Keep in mind though the remote box (the chickenleg ones) and the djanbazan are pretty old and are likely to be redone 'eventually. Djan sniper is still cool though I guess, even if not quite as useful as the HMG.

File: nADKg9A.jpg (142 KB, 900x506) Image search: [Google]

142 KB, 900x506

>>48235097
>>48234929
Are the Azra'il any good? I really love their model.

>>48235121

Feel free to get them if you want (HMG version looks great), although they seem to have a similar role to the Red Veil Big Dude.

>>48235121
Yeah, they're budget weapon platforms. Feuerbach is good in ARO and AP HMG is good on the active turn or in supp fire. They're big and slow though, so keep that in mind.

>>48234422

Janni can do the rape train as well. At even cheaper prices if you want to use Hafza filler.

And Haqq HI ain't all that bad either. What with regen monsters, holo BS, and even 2 fatties options to choose from now.

>>48234236
BTFO

>>48235165
Ah, by role do you mean the "Rambo" of the army?(Heard that term thrown around a lot)

>>48209646
funny thing about infinity.
Most of the models with character are limited edition. I can't even tell apart most regular units.
Kind of a shame really.

>>48235247
Eh, Hafza come with their own problems. The big appeal of Wu Ming is their sheer versatility. The only profile that doesn't bring at least 2 useful things to the table is the HMG, and it's an HMG so it doesn't need anything else.

>>48235320

I think they were talking about the Ayyar and their holo 2 specialist troop shenanigans. Though I do wish they had more profiles they're cool but kind of limited.

>>48235311

They are usually better off attacking yeah. And the more aggressive they are used, the more orders they need (thus getting cheap-ish burner boyz can help). Sometimes the whole order pool can be burnt on them to go on a rampage (until they get ARO killed) hence the term 'Rambo'.

>>48235356
I was responding to the Jann rape train and the use of Hafza in that.