How can you create a martial character without any reliance on magic or magic items in a magic heavy setting?
Is it possible?
The only two possibilities that I can think of are either a personal anti-magic field (which is kind of exceptional in most settings) or pic-related.
Thoughts?
I shouldn't need to add this but just in case, I meant "create an effective character."
Try playing something other than 3.5
>>48150921
Why not make one whose supernatural powers are less flashy, but make him better at fucking people up?
>super fast
>strong
>hard to kill
>keen senses
>jump like a boss
>resistant to magical influence
Too late, you didn't specify you were playing 3rd edition dnd
I mean, what system?
>>48150921
The Goddamned Batman, though you might consider his gadgetry "magic items." There are numerous "Super Normals" in cape comics that consistently hit above their weight because they are clever and/or ruthless.
Sokka, Ty Lee, and Mai from Avatar: The Last Airbender. All three were formidable in the setting.
Someone in a magic heavy setting who goes entirely without magic is basically the setting equivalent of the Amish. You're rejecting quality of life improvements and effective solutions "because it's magic and I don't want to use magic". It's kind of nonsensical and it would make more sense if you just used physical buffing magic instead of pew pew laser magic.
>>48151056
Even Batman utilizes supernatural effects when he needs to. Every time he's come up against a Kryptonian, he's had some kryptonite stashed away.
>>48150921
It depends a lot on how magic works and what it can or can't do.
If being a walking anti-magic field or a chi-infused supermonk doesn't break your idea of what constitutes a non-magical character then go for it. But you could also rely on technology, intelligence and/or charisma. The guy with dozens of fanatical armed men and some magic-users following his every word, plus the strategic mind to put them to good use, is pretty formidable regardless of whether he personally has magic or not.
>>48151171
That is why I included the caveat about his gadgetry. The fact that his belt always seems to have exactly what he needs is pretty close to magic.
>>48150921
You need to specify a system.
In general, the best way to reach maximum effective as the guy who can't use magic is to use everything at your disposal that isn't magic and fight smart with those things. Bombs, caltrops, oil slicks, blankets, nets, poisons, grappling hooks, hand cannons, ect. ect. All the things that the ultra casters have access to but would never think to use because they're so focused on bigger and flashier spells. For example, if you're going up against a lightning centric mage, set up the arena beforehand by driving metal things into the ground to divert his spells while using wooden/leather equipment yourself.
Study spells and magic, but not in the way that you use them. Just enough to know what each spell does. Study monsters too. Know thy enemy. Know thy tools.
Both Hercules and Odysseus serve as good examples of Pure Martial done right.
Like - if a Martial is to compete with Wizards in a high Magic setting, he needs to be able to either do such fucking insane feats of strength that they make the laws of physics cower, or he needs to be crafty and clever as fuck.
A good example is an anime called Chivalry of a failed Knight. Basically it is a Martial Vs. Caster because the guy is considered a "failure" of a knight because he can't do flashy magic shit and the most he can do is do strength enhancement that lasts for a few minutes so basically what he did was take his strength enhancing ability and compress it down to like a minute which gives him maximum superhuman strength combined with all of his swordsmanship from practicing.
I feel they made him a bit stu-ish a bith because of some of his techniques like being able to "see" the logic behind an opponents attack or some shit like that but the I like the concept
>>48151039
>>48151041
>>48151273
>You need to specify a system.
My bad.
The system is not D&D 3.5
It is GURPS with a heavily modified magic system.
The setting was originally based off Faerun though.
>>super fast
>>strong
>>hard to kill
>>keen senses
>>jump like a boss
That describes Rock Lee pretty well
>>resistant to magical influence
A lesser form of anti-magic, and more acceptable.
>>48151436
>GURPS
Oh. Well just like pump your strength really really fucking high and hit like a truck and have a warships worth of HP.
>>48151436
Sounds like you need to look at the Martial Arts and Supers splats.
>>48151056
>The Goddamned Batman
That kinda works, but the tech level doesn't support it.
Honestly, Batman would be the uber-magic-item-user martial in the setting.
Which is cool as hell.
Some level of mage knight is really the ideal option, but if a player wants to be the Amish Don Quixote >>48151171
Is it feasable?
>>48151307
How do you spec Odysseus without author fiat?
>>48151519
Whos that guy from Mortal Kombat X who uses pistols and rifle? He has a few low key magic items on him so he seems like he's be a better fit then Gary Stu man.
>>48151466
>>48151504
No offense, but you're kind of reinforcing my decision not to mention the system.
Amping the stats and seeking alternate splats are not in-setting solutions.
Although, fleshing out the Rock Lee option could probably benefit from the martial arts splat.
>>48151332
I will have to check this out.
Is it any good?
>>48150921
Anima BF is made for you
>>48151056
>The Goddamned Batman
That character can't work beyond comics or movies anon, RPG characters don't have that amount of plot armor, you'll need literally more fate points than grains of sand on Earth
>>48151717
It's short and doesn't have much in the way of real substance but it's a fun thing to watch for some of the fight scenes.
My favorite one is the MC's sister who uses Ice powers versus the schools president who uses lightning based quick draw attacks with her sword.
>>48151742
Play a knockoff Batman then.
>>48151273
>In general, the best way to reach maximum effective as the guy who can't use magic is to use everything at your disposal that isn't magic and fight smart with those things.
Well, can an OP use /thread?
More of this please.
>Bombs, caltrops, oil slicks, blankets, nets, poisons, grappling hooks, hand cannons, ect. ect.
Are any of these in the setting?
Not really.
Is there a logical reason why not?
Aside from the gunpowder... fuck.
>All the things that the ultra casters have access to but would never think to use because they're so focused on bigger and flashier spells. For example, if you're going up against a lightning centric mage, set up the arena beforehand by driving metal things into the ground to divert his spells while using wooden/leather equipment yourself.
Goddamned Batman
>Study spells and magic, but not in the way that you use them. Just enough to know what each spell does. Study monsters too. Know thy enemy. Know thy tools
Batman the Beastmaster with Knowledge(Magic Lore)
Not a level 1 PC, but one helluva character option
Rock Lee was magical.
>>48151849
In the sense that he was delightful, or that he employed magic in some way?
>>48151887
Not that anon, but I'm pretty sure everyone worth a shit in that setting had ninja chi power. It's only not magic in that it's not called magic.
>>48151680
You could widen your influence over the world beyond the battlefield by making a character with social influence and wealth and whatnot to go with your martial prowess. Even when you absolutely need magical help, you might know a wizard who needs money or owes you a favor.
>>48151436
>resistant to magical influence
>A lesser form of anti-magic, and more acceptable.
Yes. Just because you're not a wizard, doesn't mean you can't withstand their juju.
>>48151742
Because any character based off the Batman must have every fiat and writer loophole that has ever been employed to support the Batman?
Right.
Cage's Batman copy from Kickass used guns, lacked principles, & died a horrible sloppy death, such is the life of a PC.
>>48151920
http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Rock_Lee
http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Taijutsu
>>48151920
100% correct.
And Rock Lee did not use an ounce of it.
>>48152001
he uses it when he opens his chakra gates or whatever, although he's already ridiculously fast and strong before doing that.
>>48151921
The Social Martial or Captain Diplomancer could work too.
Magic could kick his ass, but he's got a guy for that.
Helps party cohesion too, while being better than just some guy who who is good with a weapon.
>>48151920
>>48151985
>>48152001
>And Rock Lee did not use an ouce of it
He did, 8 gates shit was ki, just a different way of using ki
>>48151985
>>48152001
>First chapters of the manga explain tha tliterally whatever you do is because chakra
>"nuh nuh, he didn't use chakra!"
So Rock Lee is dead and whatever we see is just our imagination? because that's the only explanation of why he doesn't use chakra
Rock Lee can't into Ninjutsu and Genjutsu, nothing else, that doesn't mean he isn't as magical as Neji or Chouji, he just uses "magic" in a different way
>>48152143
karate kid
>>48151680
>not using splats
Then why the fuck are you playing GURPS
>>48152042
>>48152061
Okay, find me a better example of a martial that renounces any and all magic in a magic heavy setting and still kicks ass.
I'll wait.
Actually, now that I think of it, the gates thing is similar to a Paladin only ability in the setting that lets you tap into unused soul energy to use as physical energy.
>>48150921
>They didn't let Guy sacrifice himself
Still mad they didn't just let him go out in style
>>48152216
At the risk of triggering someone who hates the site, you can try flicking through the Badass Normal page on TvTropes for something that sounds suitable.
Doesn't GURPS have the absolute mundane thing?
Just be one of those and when a wizard tries to cast a spell on you kick him in his dumb face
>>48152151
>All things are magical, even posting on 4chan, so we're all wizards.
>>48152287
Pocket sand him from across the map when he tries to use ranged explosion magic on you.
>>48152208
>Then why the fuck are you playing GURPS
Because I rebuilt D&D magic from the ground up, realized it no longer matched D&D rules well, and GURPS Fantasy was a good fit.
Not all GURPS needs to be ALL GURPS.
>>48152295
In Naruto, you fucking retard.
>>48152346
>Not all GURPS needs to be ALL GURPS.
No, but if you want cool martial shit, use the cool martial shit rules, man
>>48152283
I remai, skeptical, but unrriggered.
I will look.
>>48152363
But.. where would he get them?
He'd have to make them himself if playing GURPS.
>>48152282
Naruto ended like shit
>Built up villains turns to be nothing and they introduce a new villain out of the blue
>Literally have the means to ressurrect every death but decide not to
>They simply forgive kid edgelord
>Long etc
Well, Naruto was shit, shouldn't have expected any other kind of ending
>>48152151
>First chapters of the manga explain tha tliterally whatever you do is because chakra
If that's the case I'm pretty sure it was retconned when Kaguya and the chakra fruit was introduced, because humans managed to walk around and do stuff and generally stay alive before they had chakra.
>>48152382
Shippuden is more filler than plot
>>48152349
Chakra = magic inherent in all life
Ninjutsu and Genjutsu = Sorcery and Wizardry
He can tap into his life energy, that doesn't mean he can cast magic equivalent.
Follow an analogy.
>>48152216
There are tons of capes that fit the bill.
Marvel
Hawkeye (trick arrows might count as "magic items")
Mockingbird
The Punisher (military grade weaponry might count as "magic items")
Bullseye
Black Widow (she had some sort of super-serum but it mostly just keeps her young and thus able to stay at the top of her game)
DC
The Question
Green Arrow, Speedy/Arsenal, and Arrowette/Artemis (trick arrows again)
Robin/Nightwing and Batgirl
The Crimson Avenger
Vigilante
The Blue Beetle (Ted Kord version is just a guy with some gadgets)
The Karate Kid
Numerous Batman Villians
Pre-Serum Deathstroke/Slade Wilson
Deadshot
>>48152398
Pretty sure that fruit gave you the ability to control chakra and not actual chakra
>>48152287
Yes, the Mundane Advantage is a thing. But it is really a type of Reality Altering Super Power as at high levels it can literally turn a monster into a Scooby Doo Style guy in a rubber suit.
>>48152447
He fucking becomes Flash meets Hulk by using chakra, don't give me the "nuh nuh, he's a normal guy, he doesn't use magic".
>>48152447
I prefer to follow the manga and not your head canon
>>48152454
No, that wouldn't make sense, her whole motivation was getting back the chakra her children "stole" from her. Nobody has chakra before her.
So I don't think there's any evidence that Rock Lee is using chakra except when he opens the gates.
>>48152527
Even with the retcon, Lee still needs the Gates to compete with the rest of his friends and enemies.
>>48152527
>I don't think there's any evidence that Rock Lee is using chakra except when he opens the gates.
He has chakra coils (chakra veins things) but they are malformed and do not allow him to utilize chakra "externally" (throwing jutsu around). He can still use chakra to reinforce himself and be stronger and faster.
The gates just remove limiters. the first one removes the normal "cant use full muscle power cause bones cannot endure it" while the last blows open the gates regulating the chakra flow through his body, same reason, diferent kind of power.
>>48152454
The fruit was the origin of chakra.
>tfw everybody has chakra
>tfw sharingan came from byakugan
>tfw only one mangekyou
>tfw only one Uchiha left
>tfw Obito died before the 4th became hokage
>tfw 1001 more stuff that got retconned later
God, is Toriyama even worse than Tite?
>>48152484
>>48152504
What "spells" does Rock Lee "cast"?
What does he do that any human in the setting couldn't do with enough training and determination?
What rituals does he do to perform superior feats?
What have I missed?
>>48152687
That is very different from what I remember.
One of us is likely wrong.
>>48150921
>He never saw Rune Soldier
Rune Soldier is an anime that is exactly what you're thinking about OP, go watch it and have your answers fulfilled
>>48152843
Literally geniuses like Kakashi can't do what Lee does, Kakashi even explained that not even all the amount of training can allow you to open the gates, that only a few can and that Lee and Gai can ever open all.
As for spells he casts Bulls strength, haste, cats grace, bears endurance and improved versions of these.
>>48152899
I can only hope your smugness is deserved.
>>48152939
So Lee is exceptional, like a PC.
>As for spells he casts Bulls strength, haste, cats grace, bears endurance and improved versions of these
That doesn't answer the question I was asking. In what way does he cast any of those spells the way a mage casts magic?
>>48152167
Billy Batson for that matter.
>magical
>no spells except technically shocking grasp
>has been known to go toe-to-toe with the fucking Spectre.
>>48153087
There are more ways to do magic than wiggling your fingers and shouting some vancian words.
Shadowrun adepts never even think about and sometimes aren't even aware of the magic they use, but they use it all the same.
>>48153120
Wasn't his power literally from a wizard?
>>48153168
I agree with you in spirit, but you're still failing to follow the analogy.
How does he do it?
No answer?
Fine, but he remains a martial.
>>48153120
Yeah, no. His powers are specifically magic. He casts fucking Tenser's Transformation when he yells SHAZAM.
>>48153366
A martial who uses superhuman, mystical abilities far and beyond what a normal person can do.
It's not "chi", but that doesn't make it mundane.
>>48153843
>A martial who uses superhuman, mystical abilities far and beyond what a normal person can do.
>It's not "chi", but that doesn't make it mundane.
But if any determined normal person could achieve the same abilities through mundane means, what then?
>>48150921
Play 4e with inherent bonuses, or any number of other games that fully allow this.
>>48150921
Rolemaster.
Crits>magic.
>>48154444
>But if any determined normal person could achieve the same abilities
No, they fucking can't, you can train 10 life times and still get nothing, 8 gates are not a training only ability, you need to be special, stop pushing around that Lee doesn't use chakra.
>>48158082
I hated how everyone in naruto turned out to be special supermen when the whole premise was gifted vs training
>>48158232
Welcome to shonen
>>48150921
Yes, it's possible but just don't expect to be as powerful as magic users.
Playing a character that relies purely on physical strength in a high magic setting is just gimping yourself.
It's like bringing a knife to a gunfight.
If we're talking settings instead of mechanics, then the simple answer is that you force magic users to specialise. You want huge fireballs? Specialise in pyromancy. You want impenetrable armour? Specialise in reinforcement magic. You want to create food and water from thin air? Specialise in conjuration. You want to see the future? Specialise in divination. You want to create your own planes? Specialise in meta-construction. And so on.
This way, you wouldn't have mages inevitably outclass warriors, as there would always be holes in their skillset that a warrior could exploit. And while a mage could work hard and master several specialities, such individuals would be exceptionally rare and high-level. And an equally exceptional warrior would be close to a demigod in stature, so the mage's power wouldn't be much of an issue then, either.
>>48152888
He's lying, the malformation is bad fanon. Lee was just hopelessly bad at ninjustu and genjutsu. If he didn't have chakra he would have died in the main part of the story before the fruit retcon, and even after that he would have been useless because he couldn't amp up his physical stats.
>>48151725
This
>>48158428
Oh right, I also forgot the little things like Shunshin and water walking, which were also chakra and also things he did.
>>48158428
Gai mentions at the begining of the manga, during the exams, that Lee BARELY can use genjutsu or ninjutsu. He actually can use some, examples being walk on water, run up walls and minor shit like that
>>48151436
Really high Speed and Dodge to dodge magical blasts, and Magical Resistance to resist everything else. Really high ST to penetrate magical DR also helps.
>>48152843
>What "spells" does Rock Lee "cast"?Fist
>>48158406
This framework would also solve the issue of monks being underpowered. Just make their particular martial art into another discipline of magic, focused around expressing one's inner power through physical action or something. That's why an unarmed monk in a tunic can go toe-to-toe with a knight in steel plate: his fists hit like hammers, and his skin can turn aside blades.
Oh, and it lets you do fun things with the geography of your setting! Instead of all wizards being the same everywhere, maybe different magic disciplines developed in different parts of the world. One country might have powerful fire mages, while a country over the nearby mountains has mind-readers, and a country across the sea has mastered summoning and binding demonic servants. A great empire might be able to gather up these scattered disciplines, and master them all. Then when the empire falls, those disciplines could scatter to the winds, and grow into new forms.
>>48150921
Extremely advance martial arts character who might as well be using magic. Seriously, rock lee might as well have been using magic (sorry, ninjutsu) for as fast and powerful as he was. Then fucking sasuke mary sues up the same high speed body in an hour.
>>48150921
Grab as much broken cheese and bullshit for your martial as the magics have grabbed for themselves. Declare that your martial character runs at the speed of light because of his connection to the Speed Force, kicks over castles with the firey passion of his youthful heart, shoots people from ten thousand miles away with the weeaboo weeabow of weeaboo, can run through a forest at full speed without breaking a branch or disturbing a creature because he has elf blood, hears an owl on the other side of the country with his ultra-trained ears, etc.
Because frankly, the typical RPG "wizard", particularly in a magic heavy setting, is a fucking mary sue that has little or no connection to any literary wizard elsewhere. Gandalf's heights of magical accomplishment were Fireball, Knock and Hold Portal. If the wizards want to have Wail of the Banshee that kills everyone hearing it, you damn well march right up and demand that your fighter gets Fist of the Mountain which breaks countries. It's only fair.
>>48154444
Not the person you're arguing with, but it was specifically mentioned that rock lee couldn't be a ninja till guy came along and taught him to better control his chakra and redirect it into taijutsu. And even then Guy thought he still couldn't do it until Rock opened his first gate. Rock lee clearly still uses chakra since his fist and legs can destroy boulders without too much effort, can walk on water and upside down, and he can still ninja jump like a mad man. If anything he's like a psionic character who specializes in self buffing.
>>48158232
If it was about that then Rock Lee and Naruto would have had switched power sets. The premise was friendship and family.
>using GURPS
>ever
>especially for hardcore martial characters
Savage Worlds has a d10 Strength guy with a greatsword equal or surpass those robe-wearing faggots when it comes to laying down sheer hurt, just saying
>>48158681
Mages in GURPS suck as DPS, hard. Just saying.
>>48158681
>laying down sheer hurt
How to wizard wrong: The sentence fragment.
>>48151680
Sure they are, training really hard and becoming strong sounds pretty in setting regardless of locale
Splatbooks are just forgotten tomes from another time and place :^)
These threads are always good for finding the weird little biases about martials that many posters have. Like equating martial with mundane, and then equating mundane with earth based physics only.
These are fantasy worlds, often filled with gods, magic, terrifying monstrosities that defy any semblance of earth physics, and yet, all warriors must adhere to our physics, and not the one's that exist within these universes. None of them can apparently ever train so hard, and so well, that they can leap up cliffs, or swing a blade so well it creates a slashing vortex, or strengthen their skin to leather or even iron levels of protection. And all of it being completely non magical.
Nope, only hitting things hard with a pointy stick and being fit. Thats all they get.
>>48151056
ty lee and mai, defnityl, sokka was more a force multiplier that a powerhouse. he'd be like a bard, but smart. (submarines, WOO!)
>>48158694
>>48158701
And the save-or-die faggots come crawling out of the woodwork right on schedule.There isn't actually a fucking Sleep spell in SW core, just saying
>>48158724
scratch that, I am a faggot, there is. But it's far easier to wake up, you'd better hope your fighter minion is capable of being quiet while he does battlefield cleanup
>>48158724
>save-or-die
Wow, how boring.
>>48151680
GURPS Martial Arts is the Magic book for guys with swords, don't include one if you're not using the other.
>>48158738
That's how casterfaggots roll
>>48158724
You are an idiot, right? Save-or-die suck even more in GURPS, thanks to Rule of 16 and cheap Magic Resistance.
>>48158760
Oh wow, you got me, I don't play GURPSBecause it's fucking autism with d6s
>>48158772
>spoiler
Yeah, you definitely don't play GURPS.
Anwser independent of the setting:
Depends if you wanna make a chracter magic-less fluff wise or prove the other players you don't need to play a spellcaster.
First one is just aking you GM for a refluff into technology, mad science, crazy determination/preparation or power of friendship.
Second one actually depends on the system and if it's not easily done, maybe it's not worth trying (unless you're into that kind of challenge, but don't come whining after).
>>48158772
Well then shut up about it, you are just making yourself look even more of an idiot.
>>48158800
>mention how a system does martials vs casters better than the one OP uses, suggest he uses that instead of trying to hamfistedly use a fistful of sourcebooks he doesn't want to use to make a decent martial character
>"w-well shut up about it, stop trying to suggest something better!"
wat
a
t
>>48158818
>>system does martials vs casters better than the one OP uses
>I've no knowledge of this system, but I'll tell you all about how my favourite one is better than it!
>>48158841
Do tell me how "autism with d6s" doesn't perfectly sum up GURPS, please.
I've tried reading it, honestly the sourcebooks are good just for how much detail they go into but the system itself is just plain awful. Slow as shit, needlessly detailed, and with a character creation phase like Mutants and Masterminds on acid
>>48158818
>mention how a system does martials vs casters better than the one OP uses
And how the fuck you would know it, not playing the other one?
>>48158860
>Slow as shit
I thought you said you didn't play GURPS?
>>48158860
>Do tell me how "autism with d6s" doesn't perfectly sum up GURPS, please.
Because it only describes Technical Grappling and Vehicles, not any of the rest of the system.
>>48158860
And here come lies.
>Slow as shit
In your paralytic hands, maybe.
>needlessly detailed
Say for yourself. Some people love details.
>character creation phase like Mutants and Masterminds on acid
Literally what. Character creation in GURPS is so easy that after trying to create one in DnD 5e I just said "fuck this" and got back to GURPS.
Do something.
Do something really well.
If that's hitting dudes in one specific way to do one specific thing, do it well.
>>48152843
>What "spells" does Rock Lee "cast"?
>>48158644
>walk on water
>>48158441
>water walking,
Well that settles that.
Apparently I should have used The Karate Kid as my OP image. >>48152167
But, pic related is the one that I'm familiar with.
>>48158566
No.
No to all of this.
Not saying that cheesing out martials isn't a solution, but to me that's like responding to I housefire by fetching marshmallows.
>>48152216
Akatsuki from Hagure Yuusha no Estetica. He's a ki master in a world of magic. He's also top fun.
Dude rock lee is the best
>>48158406
>>48158532
Interestingly, my magic system already does this.
So, naturally I love it.
I'm just concerned that I've crafted a world where not having magic, chi, or psionics is like fighting unarmed, or bringing a knife to a gunfight.
>>48159422
Hey, if you want to instead put out the metaphorical housefire by turning wizards into tertiary casters who get Fireball as their capstone, be my guest.
>>48151566
-10 hp
>>48150921
Go the Saitama route. Just get your physical stats to such ridiculous levels that you can make physics your bitch.
>>48150921
you learn magic so you can take it away from everybody
>>48150921
Depends 100% on the motherfucking system, idiot.
Isn't Rock Lee a bad example here? He still runs off of magic (chakra), he just doesn't shoot fireballs or anything.
>>48159899
I know Warcraft designs are shit, but why is there the face of the duck hunt mutt on this schmucks weapons?
>>48161686
You, read >>48158710
It's easy in anima beyond fantasy. Just play a weapon's master. It's suprisingly rewarding.
>>48158082
Of course Rock Lee uses Chakara, you can see him walking on water or walls multiple times throughout the show
>>48161723
They are Pandaren faces and because the designers are stupid.
>>48161723
Pandarian
>>48161723
>Warcraft designs are shit
How?
>>48161914
The correct therm is chatora
>>48161686
Rock Lee is a fine example because in a high-magic setting, saying "I use my magic" is like saying "I use my muscles." No fucking shit you do, idiot. The question is how? Do you use it in elaborate rituals to summon demons or launch fireballs or heal the sick and dying? Or do you use it to be strong as a giant, durable as a mountain, break the earth open with your fists and a swing a sword hard enough to shockwave-slash through buildings? Call it magic or mana or chi or essence or ether or whatever the hell you want, but if magic pervades everything then everything is magical up to and including martial abilities. Wanting to be non-magical in a high-magic setting is like wanting to a wizard in a non-magical setting.
>>48150921
Why would you? Would you play a mage in a setting without magic? Why not just play a magical martial character?
>>48151832
>There's no blankets, oil, rope, poison, or caltrops in the setting
>>48151273
>Drive metal spikes into the ground to ruin lightning magic.
This is 'use air bending to keep people from breathing' level of bullshit.
>>48151307
Hercules uses magical artifacts, and is a demi-god.
>>48151307
>Hercules
You could have said Diomedes, Cadmus, Atalanta, etc instead of a fucking demigod.
Also Odysseus was pretty meh martial wise, he was a master tactician though.
>it's a infinite captcha loop episode
>>48161290
Couldn't even read a dozen posts before raging?
Switch to decaf.
>>48161686
Rock Lee is a good example, just not a perfect one.
>>48162874
He's a good example of making a magic-powered martial (Which is the better way to be a martial in a high-magic setting), not a good example of a mundane person (Which is how you be the setting's own amish).
>>48162390
>Why would you?
>Why not just play a magical martial character?
Trying to determine if my setting basically says, "You can be any type of character you want, now what kind of Magic user would you like to play?"
But we have at least three types of purely non-Magic builds so far, so that's good.
>>48162952
He's barely magical and operates on the same level as highly magical peers.
He's a good example, just not a perfect one.
>>48163181
>He's barely magical
Hachimon Tonkou, motherfucker stuff that literally only him and Gai are able to use and that make them as powerful as kages
If Lee is barely magical so is Neji who only pokes you with fingers and pretty much nothing else.
>>48151436
>It is GURPS with a heavily modified magic system.
Is it like standard magic or something more esoteric?
And what's your point budget?
You want Mana Damper, switchable, and maybe some other stuff to make it a bit more affordable.
Pretty much all the perks out of Martial Arts.
Enhance Time Sense, Very Fast Healing, Very Fit, Ambidexterity, some level of Luck.
If you have the points for it, Extra attack or Altered Time Rate (with disadvantages of some sort making it basically superhot bullet time?)
Enhanced moves.
>>48163353
Also causes them to spontaneously combust and it's only through the intervention ofJesusNaruto that Has survives.
>>48163466
He has a giant radar though
>>48163470
Samefag
>Reads see that's he's against fuck splat books for some reason?
Anyways, the main thing I was suggesting from Martial Arts was a bunch of perks, which you could generate on your own using them as guidelines.
Various Iron body parts, form mastery, grip mastery, Power grappling, etc.
>>48158743
This
I mean...You know GURPS splats aren't like D&D splats, right?
>>48158441
Yeah, it's really fucking shit that they eventually forgot that. I know there are several points before Shippuden where you can see everyone sitting on a wall, with Rock Lee having dug his entire hands into the wall to hold himself up. And that was fucking hilarious.
>>48163578
Regarding the splats, it's not that I hate splats.
It's more of a question of it not being an in-setting solution.
>How can this warrior be feasably effective in a world with magic?
>Splats.
That's not exactly an answer to how someone with martial arts can effectively attack and defend against opponents with magic.
But I will look into those.
>>48162655
Well I meant that I hadn't properly developed those tools for using in battle in my settings not that you know there are blankets in my setting.
Not that that makes me any less derpy.
>No blankets! Afgans only!
>>48152451
>The Blue Beetle
wasnt he using a alien-exosuit?
>>48151436
Your core weakness is hit power(fixable), durability(plenty fixable) and reach against flying or cliffs. The latter is also fixable.
>>48163857
>Ted Kord version is just a guy with some gadgets
you're thinking of jaime reyes, the latest blue beetle.
Combat drugs can be an option, provided the system doesn't shit all over them with enormous penalties or dying of addiction
>>48152001
>>48151985
Basically: Taijutsu is internal, Ninjutsu is external.
Thats the core of it.
Lee has some genetic defects, which means he can't be trained to normally do the external effects. And since his ninja village has faith in standardized education, he won't get training to allow him external arts.
But he can still do all the internal arts. His core is that he forces circulation of Ki, which grants him superhuman powers.
Which is what all Naruto ninjas do, to perform all movement and Taijutsu. Which they are also forced to perform, because to be a elite, you need to move like a speeding bullet in short bursts.
He can still do the really important things(Air Step when Gated, Water Walking and Surface Walking), but he can't do a lot of convenient low level illusions.
>>48151436
If it's GURPS you just need to give yourself a good skill, high attributes and quality equipment and you'll be golden.
Equipment and the ability to use said equipment is strong as fuck in GURPS.
>>48159471
>I'm just concerned that I've crafted a world where not having magic, chi, or psionics is like fighting unarmed, or bringing a knife to a gunfight.
Well, the idea is more to decouple combat magic from all other kinds of magic, which is what makes Wizards so broken. Yes, there is a qualitative difference between swinging a sword and hurling fireballs, but compared in a vacuum, they're not exactly unbalanced. A swordsman could potentially nullify a fire-mage's advantages through cunning tactics, such as by taking them by surprise, fighting in or near a body of water, or drenching themselves in water immediately prior to battle (hey, desperate times...).
And that would be fair, because both warrior and mage are "fighters" in this scenario, instead of the warrior being a fighter and the mage being a walking swiss army knife. And if either PC wants to engage with non-combat magic, they can, because they're not skills tied to being a mage. They're skills on par with, say, fishing or woodcarving, albeit with more exotic applications.
(That said, it might actually be best to just drop the magic martial arts stuff. That's basically just "fighting, but better", which yeah, totally undermines the point of playing a mundane fighter in the first place.)
>>48162680
Not that anon, but my understanding of electricity is fairly limited. Why wouldn't it work exactly? Does electricity not typically go for the most conductive item in the immediate vicinity?
>>48159471
>I'm just concerned that I've crafted a world where not having magic, chi, or psionics is like fighting unarmed, or bringing a knife to a gunfight.
Is that really that bad? Is a game where you pick which source your superpower comes from a problem? If Normal McNormalson can't compete in a world with wizards, superhuman warriors and psychics, then don't let anyone be Normal McNormalson.
>>48162680
How would that not work?
>>48164030
>
You have ait backwards.
Taijutsu is just the catch all for all martial arts in the setting which thing breaks down to internal styles (i.e. the soft fist style of the hyuga clan) versus the hard style fist (the ones used by Rock and Gai)
Ninjutsu and Ginjutsu are similarly just overal technical terms for techniques: one being the application of Chakra to use various ninja techniques such as Kunai throwing as well as various elemental techniques and Ginjutsu is involved with sensory and illusion techniques.
>>48163820
>No blankets! Afgans only!
They've actually used blankets to hide from drones sometimes. From a drone's perspective, someone covered by a blanket can look like a rock.
>>48164580
Thrown weapons techniques are known as shurikenjutsu. Ninjutsu is specifically the application of chakra to cause physical effects, Genjutsu is the application of chakra to cause mental effects. Kenjutsu is swordsmanship.I kinda hate myself for knowing these things.
>>48164666
That's why thermal imaging exists
If setting is highly magical, then high-level martial characters have to be sort of muscle wizards either by raising their strength score or letting them use magic-like martial abilities.
Being just great at swordsmanship won't do shit against fireballs.
Even Batman used extraordinal items (like kryptonite) when needed, sure he would use magic if he was capable of doing so.
>>48164580
>Taijutsu is just the catch all for all martial arts in the setting
No. Not in Naruto.
It generally is in anime, but it isn't in Naruto.
>>48164731
>I kinda hate myself for knowing these things.
I can name from memory all the ships and droids from all the Star Wars movies. Even the prequels.
I never asked for this.
>>48164803
Batman has actually beaten a lot of uber powerful characters just using martial arts, among them full powered kryptonians, new gods, old gods, etc
The best way is to max skill in manufacture explosive/poison, any fighting art, traps, and sneak. then understand the limits of your equipment. then, play smart
>>48164976
Don't you think it's some sorf of asspull then?
Batman is basically just a rich guy, maybe quite above average when comes to strength and dexterity, for example, bt still just a human.
>>48164345
A small spike wouldn't be the most conductive item compared to the person near it. A huge lightning rod, maybe, but then you'd have to lug around a big lightning rod in the event of lightning magic. And if they used it while you're still carrying it? Congrats, problem not fixed at all.
>>48165062
It's, and that why batman is a bad example for anything that isn't plotarmor bullshit
>>48164441
>then don't let anyone be Normal McNormalson.
This doesn't jive with me.
I don't like dictating that a player can't be normal in a setting where normal people still exist.
>Can't I play a normal guy trying to succeed heroically against impossible odds?
>No, pick what kind of mage you will be.
or
>Yeah, but unless you do a,b,c, or d, you'll basically be Amish.
Which is more likely to be fun?
>>48165199
>Congrats, problem not fixed at all.
Problems still fixed. As long as the lighting rod is touching the ground it travels through the rod and not through your body.
>>48165275
Actually that's just why the laundry list of Batman's resume is largely plot armor bullshit. Batman himself is actually still a phenomenal detective and physical combatant when you disregard a lot of the things that bad writers have done with him.
>>48165311
>I don't like dictating that a player can't be normal in a setting where normal people still exist.
There are plenty of RPG settings where normal people exist alongside distinctly abnormal PCs. You don't play a heroic mortal in a party of Solar Exalts. You don't play an unmodifed human in Corporation. You don't play a non-mutant in Cybergeneration. You don't play a non-Overed in Double Cross. More to the point, "normal guy trying to succeed heroically against impossible odds" is a completely out-of-context character concept unless the entire party is also made up of normal people. Otherwise, anything that's a legitimate challenge against the rest of the party will treat Normalman like the dirt-farming peasant insect that he's chosen to be. You know how Batman wins? Plot armor. Batman has superpowers. Most prominently, the power to be rich as fuck and the power to retroactively declare that he had a plan for something that no one would ever imagine happening. So, sure. Someone is allowed to normal so long as they're okay with being richer than god and having magic that lets them rewrite history.
>Which is more likely to be fun?
Is this theoretical person strapped to a chair in your living room? Are they unable to opt-out of a game that they don't personally want play? If they have such a problem with not being allowed to be the only mundane person in the entire universe with enough bullshit to keep up with the rest of the group, then they don't have to play.
>>48165475
>alongside
I meant "alongside but apart from"
If you have a HIGH magic setting then pretty much everything is magic including "normal" people
If you want a fighter to compete against wizards they need to be just as magic but in a martial way for example: super strength,durability,speed,striking at a distance and all sorts of anime/comic book/video game bull shit
Playing a character with NO magic whatsoever in a high magic world is like playing a double amputee sure you can get equipment to make you MAYBE halfway decent in most situations but once you lose those you're dead weight the rest of the party has to drag around
Keeping martials bound to REAL World physics and conventions in a High MAGIC, High FANTASY world is absolutely retarded and terrible design
