Since the other thread actually went somewhere, what are some goods or services aquatic races like mermaids, sahuagin, or sea elves might provide to coastal surface dwellers? What might they be given in exchange? How could these change the systems land-dwellers use for coastal businesses and shipping?
Examples from last thread include
>Exports: 'Drydock' work without needing the ship to leave water, such as minor repairs, barnacle clearing, etc
>Things from shipwrecks
>Protective services as lifeguards or guides
>Imports: Forged metal objects
>Overland transportation
>Foodstuffs
>>48150386
deepsea products would be a good export. Rare fish and products from underwater creatures that are not otherwise available for surface dwellers. My PCs don't yet know that the base of the pudding so common in my setting was made from the waste excrement from sea cucumbers, but they will find out soon. Preferably after everyone has had at least one serving.
>>48150386
Pearls could be a good one. Pearl divers are already a thing in real life, but living down there would mean much easier access.
>>48152338
That and imagine what you could do in a fantasy setting. Maybe they maintain special oysters and feed them special sediment that turns into unique sorts of pearls for magic/alchemical uses.
The only reasons the humans can't do it is because the Merfolk can dive down to where they are situated at with ease and possibly have predators that will attack non merfolk.
>>48152380
I think it's more a matter of just being able to breathe underwater consistently. After all, imagine trying to have a farm, except there's a giant curtain in the way so you can't see if anything is trying to eat your crops, and you can only spend as long as you can hold your breath in the field.
It's just so much easier for Merfolk to do it that any humans wouldn't be able to compete.
Are crustacean folk the coolest aquatic race?
>>48150386
merfolk would have a near monopoly on sea trade. they can control the oceans easily and can bring unique shipping technologies to cement their advantage. ships towed or pushed by whales makes their shipping much faster and safer. imagine a cargo ship with a chariot-like harness with a team of whales pulling it. other ships wouldnt be able to compete. so trained marine animals would be a major industry similar to the horse industry on land.
also, marine ecosystems are incredibly productive. this means merfolk agriculture would be a massive export. fish, kelp, oysters, crabs, abalone, pearls.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76TLGgjQMOc
their huge surplus will also support very large populations with time to do intellectual pursuits. magical research, universities, schools, artists, and other services.
on earth, the end of the ice age caused ocean levels to rise, which covered up most of human's ancient settlements. in a fanasty setting, ancient artifacts and such would be routinely harvested from sunken ancient ruins and sold.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6MwYsZwfWU
gold dredging from the seafloor. merfolk have easy access to a rich mineral resource. shovel sand into bucket and lift it to the surface for sifting. easy money
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaAZe9RAKzc
If aquatic races are to trade, we can't assume they'll lug their cargo around with them over long distances. Is there an aquatic version of a pack mule? Not just like throwing bags on a shark, but something more fantasy-like? Does anyone have pics of something like it? I can't of been the only anon who thought of this.
>>48159439
its called a boat, anon
>>48150386
furs and leather products like sharkskin and otter pelts
whale oil and blubber
salt?
>>48150386
Ocean dwellers would trade the basic ability to be sail across their domains for things. Realistically, if they wanted to they could sink pretty much any ocean-going vessel at leisure, or at least render ocean trade non-viable economically and hideously more dangerous than it already is.
they would probably want things like ceramic goods and exotic foods like things that are cooked, land-based meats and spices, glass objects, and other things that simply can't be made underwater.
if you could work out some kind of actual mutual beneficial arrangement with them (say, you got a community of them addicted to preserved meats or something), you could probably set up a stable trade network and even open some shipping lanes, potentially.
>>48159439
Giant Turtle.
>>48159439
a sea horse
https://es.pinterest.com/ashe0119/water-horse/
>>48162949
>>48165364
are you people serious... they would use whales and dolphins for beasts of burden, not that stupid shit
>>48166425
Why though? Whales are mainly useful if you need something huge pulled, but for an average 'cart' a turtle makes more sense. Dolphins eat fish, and thus are more expensive to feed compared to turtles who can subsist off of farmed algae. They also live a really long time. They're the perfect equivilent to an underwater donkey or mule. Dolphins would be more akin to a dog, since they have good senses and can help with hunting.
>>48166880
>implying that algae isnt edible by merfolk
pic related
>>48166880
If we're discussing the various domestication niches that underwater mammals occupy; what would a moderate sized cetacean, (Orca, Grey Whales), be for?
>>48167037
I'm implying that it isn't edible by dolphins.
>>48167122
I don't think those are as worthwhile to tame. They're closer to the equivalent of bears or lions. Dolphins mainly eat fish and are rather social, which could lead to a situation like with dogs. Full blown whales are massive, but eat krill, so they could potentially be prodded.
Killer whales eat things that are about Merfolk sized, and generally don't have many advantages to how dangerous they are to tame. While you might tame some as a beast of war, full domestication would be crazy.
>>48167171
They're fairly social so slight domestication might be possible, maybe even better than cats anyway.
>>48167171
>They're closer to the equivalent of bears or lions
i would say they are closer to elephants and rhinos, while the sharks and killer whales are the lions and bears from the sea
>>48167435
I just don't think they would fill a solid enough niche to make up for the danger. Housecats aren't sociable, but they eat vermin.
Again, Lions are the best analogue I can see. Somewhat social, they can kill and eat you easily, and even if you tame one they're not very handy.
>>48167543
I was talking about killer whales. Whales that are massive and filter feed are certainly closer to large land herbivores
Two questions I need answered before I can underwater game.
How do you drink potions underwater?
What does an underwater ship look like? Surely they can make some sort of underwater boat, but not as sci-fi as a submarine
>>48167696
Have potions be infused into plant matter. Like, they inject seaweed with the chemicals, which kills it, but gives you a sort of healing herb.
Underwater boats would likely be similar in shape to aquatic creatures. Big rudders on the sides like fins, a rounded nose to keep it aerodynamic, a rudder on the rear to steer, basically take an airplane, remove the roof, and round it out into a more teardrop shape
>>48167696
>Surely they can make some sort of underwater boat
For what compelling reason?
>>48167805
Sea dwellers would no more build submarines than humanity would have built this if everyone had wings and could fly.
Without some pressing need for a technology, it just won't get developed.
>>48167865
I'm not talking about submarines. I'm talking about the equivalent of a sled or wagon for carrying heavy loads.
>>48167914
Underwater ship would be very much like a classical ship.
It need to be built from a rather light material and somewhat sturdy so it doesn't break.
You fill the inside with merchandises and stuff, and then you have big sails to gain speed in sea current
>>48167914
It'd probably be more or less a sled with floats and weights to maintain neutral bouyancy
>>48168065
So, a literal U-Sailboat
>>48167914
they would just use normal ships dude. possibly towed by whales/seamonsters/etc. theres no reason to have a submersible transport
>>48168255
>theres no reason to have a submersible transport
"I want to move something heavy underwater" is all the reason you need.
>>48168407
and why would you want to do that when it is easier to do it on the surface
>>48168505
Because then your undersea civilization doesn't need to maintain docks and shipyards on the surface, and can bring supplies directly from underwater city to underwater city.
Really, what benefit does a normal ship serve when you can breathe underwater, unless you're transporting stuff that needs to be dry? It's going to be pulled by sea creatures anyway, so speed doesn't matter. You just need something rather lightweitht, but not too buoyant, and you can travel in a straight line instead of having to drag all the crates to the surface, lift them up to the ship, sail, and then lower them back down.
Honestly, I dont get why you're so insistent that underwater transport wouldn't be a thing that merfolk came up with.
>>48168651
>Really, what benefit does a normal ship serve when you can breathe underwater
fucking massively less efficient due to fluid resistance, no wind power to help power it, and it is insanely heavier because it is filled with water instead of air.
thats why. it is IMMEDIATELY and OBVIOUSLY inferior to anyone with a god damned brain.
>>48167696
>What does an underwater ship look like
It's a motherfucking boat. Sailing on the surface, you dumb motherfucker.
>>48168651
>I don't understand basic fluid mechanics
>I don't even know what resistance is
This is adult-only page. And you lack Elementry-tier knowledge. Get the fuck out.
>>48168651
>Because then your undersea civilization doesn't need to maintain docks and shipyards on the surface
Yes, because having them underwater solves so much...
>>48167914
You are at least aware about the difference air and water resistance make, right? And friction? And how things submerged in water don't submit to gravity the same way submerged in air does?
It's literally Physics: 101
>>48167696
>How do you drink potions underwater?
sippy cups/babbybottle/waterskin
best option imo is to use a flexible container with a valve top. you stick the valve opening in your mouth and squeeze the potion into your mouth like a cake icing thingy or cauking gun.
also potions are oil based so tehy dont mix with the ambient water.
The sea dwellers export jewelry of a whitish gold-like alloy. The otherworldly depictions of sea creatures and alien geometry in the reliefs of their elongated tiaras and trinkets inspire both awe and a subtle sense of horror in the land dwellers without really knowing why. The material can be melted down for regular, untainted gold. They can also trade a great service- shepherding huge schools of fish, masses of crabs, lobsters, and other sea life into the nets and crates of fishermen. Even in seemingly lean times, a settlement so supplied will never want for the meats of the sea. In exchange, their price can be hefty. At first they may ask only that some surface dwellers be sent to live among them for a time- though indeed they will never be seen again and their fate will be truly uncertain. In time their hunger will grow though, and their desires will bring them to land, walking on amphibious legs, seeking their horrific compensation, and to establish a foothold on the shores.
>>48168913
which would be obvious to any species that lives exclusively underwater, of course
![tumblr_o9fu6nzSS61rtelceo1_500[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/v0nMD5c.png "tumblr_o9fu6nzSS61rtelceo1_500[1].png")
>>48150386
Cyclopeses.
Most Aquatic races exclusively rely upon Cyclopeses for all of their land-based needs and requirements: no other terrestrial species can be trusted as much as the socially awkward Cyclops.
Whether they're Merfolk, Selkies or Octopus/Squid people; they all rely on Cyclopeses for any and all terrestrial commodities and exports since the timid giants almost exclusively house themselves on remote islands and coastal environments.
Merfolk provide for their gentle one-eyed neighbors forging materials foraged off the sea floor or flat-out stolen from wreckages (or soon to be wreckages) as well as generous amounts of delectable sea foods: fish, whale meat, shellfish, kelp, etc. The Cyclopes in turn provide a number of extremely useful services but the main one their most well known for are the astoundingly artisan crafted ornate weaponry aquatic races are often found wielding- how else do you suppose the merfolk have such untarnished works of art underwater?
The other important, but less well known is the construction of artificial reefs: Cyclopes -on commission- will gladly wade out into the water to move or transports stones that aquatic races can use to plant and extend the reefs they use as farmland and hunting grounds. Cyclopes will also go so far as to pre-carve these stones with intricate shapes and holes to maximize the surface area of the reef and to allow adequate homes for more fish.
Despite all this though the interactions between these races often execute themselves via the Cyclopes sheepishly sliding out of their homes and doing something nice for the Merfolk.
While the Merfolk in turn try and return their appreciation and admiration for the Cyclopes without making them feel anxious.
It isn't however uncommon to see the two species come closely together during star-gazing events and festivals: Cyclopes fond of and often extremely knowledgeable of astrology and Merfolk loving any reason to party.
![7d57841893f8b514ddb53a863faae3b8[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/n09fuPm.jpg "7d57841893f8b514ddb53a863faae3b8[1].jpg")
>>48170432
Bumping the thread with a few more thoughts:
-Cooked food is something that is either impossible to do or otherwise so impractical that no one underwater would even humor the idea. Everything they eat is eaten raw. Cooked food as a result is a relished and sought after commodity if only because it's "different".
-Other popular exported commodities among aquatic people include: Clay/Dry Pots, Rope, Fabric and the bones of terrestrial animals -considered exotic-.
-Shellfish NOT Kelp are the single most important agricultural product of aquatic peoples: Clams, Muscles, Oysters are all grown en masse to support and feed communities supplying them with meat, shells and pearls (both of which can be used as currency).
-Crustaceans are considered a poor man's food underwater by many peoples as large communities use Crabs and Lobsters as a means of sanitation and waste disposal. Crab toilets are common in waters too cold for Sea Cucumber Toilets. These Crustaceans are often sold and traded as a means of passive-aggression towards surface folk aquatic peoples dislike.
-Domesticated Octopuses are common in communities and come in a wide variety of breeds; often being kept as companion animals or to hunt pests (such as shrimp).
-Domesticated Squids on the other hand are specifically bred and domesticated as hunting animals due to their cunning pack-hunting nature.
-As Mentioned before many aquatic communities purposefully make or encourage the growth of reefs by strategically placing rocks or otherwise creating surface areas where kelp, corals and fish can call home.
-Artificial Reefs do not just extend to food production; Aquatic peoples also bend, breed and organize corals that they can grow and dry into hard dense structures they can use as buildings underground. Corals are specifically domesticated for this purpose as wild ones simply do not grow fast enough. They also must be killed as "living" corals are soft.
>>48172507
Perhaps we can take this moment to iron out an aquatic race (or several of them) beyond the norms or at least flesh them out?
I'm guessing the typical merfolk would be the sort you see out in the open oceans and in the shallows around land and far more fishlike then their inland counterparts that would be mammalian and possibly amphibious (although I think the focus is more on the ocean side)
While undesputidly the masters of the sea they can't be everywhere at once but once they become aware of humans trying to do fishing this could lead to initial violent contact in the manner of "Get the hell out of my hunting grounds) that is to say if the merfolk even eat the same sort of fish although they may still want them around if it's beneficial to whatever else they do (Algae/kelp farming, muscle/oyster/clam farming etc) but could also lead to the first trade once they figure out they both have things that both races want.
>>48172610
>>48172629
Do I give the crabs in my waste area a say in the reefhome? Why should I treat you shell things any different;y?
>>48172650
SAY THAT TO ME NOT ON THE INTERNET I WILL SNIP YOUR SNAP
>>48172666
I just traded for a set of "tongs" I heard the humans use this to boil waste crabs in pots before they eat them. It'll be useful because I don't want to sully my hands on your shit covered shell.
>>48172687
TAILHURT FISHASS CANT WALK ON LAND
SNID ARE STRONGEST AND BEST + COOL
>>48172629
SNIDPOSTERRRRRRR
>>48172723
I am always here, and ready at a moments notice!
![918a9fa0045548013f94d5a1ed9cff2f[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/FjMYbFc.jpg "918a9fa0045548013f94d5a1ed9cff2f[1].jpg")
>>48172507
Some more thoughts before I run off to go make some dinner; please feel free to steal or critique as much as you like:
-A Nomadic lifestyle following the migrations of small whales, marine mammals, fish and large aquatic reptiles is the most common way aquatic communities make a living. Riding currents and tides to ease the tiresome expense of travel while making everything they need from the bodies of prey animals.
-Most established underwater cities are not entirely underwater; being founded around and on -ATOLLS- large ring shaped reefs where underwater peoples can be provided with private and valuable dry land for various purposes while simultaneously being never too far from water.
-Atolls also make excellent defendable structures as the insides are often hollowed out or incredibly indented due to volcanic activity making it possible to convert them into underwater fortresses- something incredibly uncommon or impractical in an aquatic environment.
-A seemingly minor "house-keeping" detail, but most house hold products are made of shells and bones: Vases & containers usually made from ammonite or snail shells (even commercial "barrels" are typically just humongous ammonite shells), Turtle shells have a reputation as cutting boards, but they're also used as windows, lenses for glasses, goggles and make surprisingly decent mirrors. Shark teeth are obviously made into knives, but due to the sheer diversity both in size and shape they can be made into a plethora of cutting utensils and tools such as scythes and saws for kelp or even hooks for shellfish.
-Due to the physics of water most medicines are ingested, but a few are also injected: various poisonous slugs can be fed unique fish, shells, kelps and corals to produce specific venoms that are then "stung" into patients and used to treat illnesses. Sea Cucumbers can also be fed similar ingredients to make "pills", but being stung is preferred to eating feces.
![captivating-atolls-of-the-maldives-1423804024[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/Uu2BM77.jpg "captivating-atolls-of-the-maldives-1423804024[1].jpg")
>>48172749
Oh, uh, for those who don't know: Pic Related are what Atolls are.
Atolls are naturally occurring formations caused by Volcanoes erupting and forming a stereotypical hill in the middle of the ocean only for the center of the island to collapse back into the ocean. The collapsed volcano either becoming sandy center or a small island in the middle.
Either way a large ring is left behind that usually grows into a reef since any semi-shallow surface area within the ocean eventually becomes a reef.
>>48172784
I fucking love atolls. And archipelagos.
I always liked how they portrayed merfolk as an aquatic branch off of hominids in that one mockumentary Animal Planet did.
>>48172862
>>48172610
>Perhaps we can take this moment to iron out an aquatic race (or several of them) beyond the norms or at least flesh them out?
we already have anon
also
1d4chan.org/wiki/merfolk
>They fire venomous parasites as weapons
There would most likely be several races of merfolk. Here's some ideas.
Surfkissed.
These are the traditional image of merfolk with a human looking torso and fish lowerhalf. This is an inevitable consequence of these folk having colonies and settlements close to surface-race shores. They are the ones who have had the most contact with surface races, both in trade and diplomacy. To aid in this contact they are trained to breath above water. It is similar to a human training themselves to hold their breath longer...it works, but barely and only for a very short time.
Nomads.
They shun the shores and the surface of the water. Their upperhalf is noticably scalier. Although they forsake the trade connections the Surfkissed have with surfacers, they will still trade with Surfkissed for foreigner goods.Although stereotyped as primitive by the wealthier merfolk kind, they are perfectly willing to use modern (to a fantasy world) technology.
Abyssals.
They are from the deep blackness below and are more monstrous than Nomads or Surfkissed. Not much is known about them, but all the fairytales speak of their evil acts.
>>48172968
>literally blue water people
>5e
Nasty
>>48173577
>literally blue
didnt even read the first paragraph i see
>>48150386
Sahuagin are much smarter and more powerful than merfolk and aquatic elves, and would absolutely dominate the oceans. Maybe they would sell merfolk and aquatic elves to land-dwellers as aquarium pieces/exotic sex slaves. In exchange they would want magic items, can't have too many of those.
>>48150386
bump
>>48172507
>Crab toilets
How does this work?
>>48175760
They eat the shit.
For health potions just do what darksun did. They had magically infused fruit you eat. Could easily do the same for kelp or some other bite sized edible thing.
>>48150386
Tug crews who manuever larger boats in and out of ports
It'd be trivially easy to actually retreive the bodies of people who drowned - to the point that ships could basically carve an address onto anyone they're throwing overboard along with water proofed letters home from the sailors that the Mermaid-express could deliver under the sea.
(because the existence of people for whom the seas are effectively indistiguishable from plains would lead to Mongolian or US style relay based messaging networks across the seas that would completely change how ocean travel worked, complete with the mermaids scalping surface ships with overpriced supplies at carefully located trade posts in the middle of major oceans.)
>>48172507
>>48175852
>bum pinchings increase 1000000000000%
>sailors now wear assless chaps around docks to show of their "badges of honor" (e.g. the butt scars they got from crab shitting) and identify them as genuine sailor
