Warmachine/Hordes General /whg/
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haven't even played a single game of this and i'm starting the general edition
Mk3 list building: http://conflictchamber.com
Warmachine/Hordes Books, No Quarter, & IKRPG
textuploader <dot> com / 5wm4h
PP Youtube (gameplay tutorials, tournament coverage, and announcements)
https://www.youtube.com/user/PrivateerPressPrime
Latest Errata:
> WE MK3 BOYS
until errata release check:
http://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?254662-Current-Errata-Threads
Steamroller Rules
http://privateerpress.com/organized-play/steamroller-tournaments
The Giant List of Podcasts and Blogs
http://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?76379-Warmachine-Hordes-related-blogs-websites-and-forums
Table of contents for all NQ issues
http://www.privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?4313-Table-Of-Contents-For-All-No-Quarter-Issues
Abridged Lore
gargantuans abridged:http://pastebin.com/XPKMKYUc
Exigence abridged: http://pastebin.com/6D1fwSgv
devastation abridged: http://pastebin.com/KxkzfnXj
Lexicanum Iron Kingdoms Lore wiki:
http://warmachine.lexicanum.com/wiki/Main_Page
MK3 RULES:
http://files.privateerpress.com/allnewwar/Prime.pdf
http://files.privateerpress.com/allnewwar/Primal.pdf
Warmachine/Hordes Army Creator (WHAC) .apk
http://charbon-et-charentaise.org/blog/content/app-release.apk
i don't into prunes
Fuck Retribution warjacks, mother fuckers are so hard to make look good, there is just nothing to work with. I have an airbrush and everything is just lacking.
>>48057454
what scheme you going for?
they do look to have large smooth surfaces. you could use a pattern - airbrushing means all you need is a template of some sort. don't even need a full pattern template, just a guiding shape.
>>48057454
Just accept that Transluscent White all over is beyond you (nothing wrong with that). Go for something metalic or warm-color enameled.
In the last thread someone posted a supposedly MKIII WHAC update. I've checked and I haven't seen anything there about one coming out. Did that link actually work or was that BS?
Skreeeeonk!
>>48058378
Warmachine/Hordes Army Creator (WHAC) .apk
http://charbon-et-charentaise.org/blog/content/app-release.apk
skreeonk.
do people not read these days?
text-to-speech warrroom when?
LGS stories? I was one of the first people to put real money down on preorders for the new decks and BBs, everyone else just puts their names on lists etc. Now that the limited stocks thing turned out to be true guess who gets first dibs? The damn regulars who don't pay on time anyways.
Fuck, I don't even have the war room app and most of them do. Guess, I'll wait to play another month or two
>>48058796
My LGS got two extra battleboxes of each faction than he had anticipated (6 Warmachine boxes, 4 Hordes boxes). I'm beginning to wonder if this limited stock story is even true.
>>48058885
My PG said canada got a total of 3 battleboxes. I find that a little hard to believe
Well I just bought a Teraph. Never thought that would happen, but the deal was so good.
>>48058885
What my LGS didn't get enough of was Faction Decks (and some battle box types). But I think the shortfall is the decks.
>>48058949
My LG had a shortage of legion, and another one had a shortage of just about everything. Apparently the distributor gave a pile of stock to some convention, and couldn't supply the stores properly now
Is there a good pdf of Mk3 faction cards? Want to proxy it up for my old models but also don't want to spend 24 bucks per faction yet
So what do people think about the Gang+Knockdown ruling? Are PP just trying to weasel out of having to update a whole host of cards, or did they genuinely intend the rules to interact in this way? And if so, why?
I've been very good and not complained about all the (largely deserved) nerfs Cryx have received, but I'm going to be really upset if the ruling holds and my Satyxis all get screwed over.
>>48059387
>did they genuinely intend the rules to interact in this way
That is just beyond unlikely.
Is this a bad time to start playing Warmahordes, with the shortages and the new edition?
Or, is this a good time and I should just look on ebay + FLGS?
>>48059387
No its a stupid accident and PP is trying to weasel out of retarded interactions.
Its a ruling so bad that you and your opponent would be willing to ignore it instantly.
Every faction has stuff that's affected negatively for this for no reason/
>>48059387
>>48059412
>>48059418
So what was the official ruling after all? Last I read, people had only just noticed the "error" and were discussing it
>>48059387
I think my meta is choosing to ignore it. And they dont have to change any cards, just the wording regarding stationary and knockdown. Its like 2 sentances
>>48059614
Infernals are claiming that Gang/Flank were tested with Knockdown and the rules are intended to be this way. PP are being torn apart over it on their official forums, so we'll see if they stick to their guns or errata it.
>>48059687
Anyone who doubted that we're sitting in the beta test right now shouldn't need any more proof
>>48059387
It's a definite weaseling. Aurora for example can't flank warjacks because she stationaries them. Great bears can't kill a frozen warjack because it got easier to hit.
Which is a higher priority in Kreoss 1 lists?
Eyriss for distruption to keep jacks, and possibly casters, out of the fight?
Or Taryn to shadowfire steady crap and black penny jammers?
>>48059387
It's not even the gang/knockdown ruling that's the studiest example of this.
Take Aurora, for example. She's got flank and stationary against warjacks on her melee weapon.
It's it's totally impossible for her to ever get the flank bonus against a warjack as this ruling stands.
And that's intentional?
>>48059764
You know what, I'm find with it being a beta. There's no replacement for the kind of playtest an entire community can give you, and it will result in a better game.
I just wish they'd admit it, and wouldn't make bullshit rulings that don't make any sense.
>>48060163
Yep, this release has been a fucking joke. With DC moving on, the kids are in charge of rules now and Soles haircut/trench coat obviously isn't enough to write good rules.
In melee vs engaged, half the fucking cards are inconsistent, stupid fucking rulings like this that make no logical sense and worse...they just fucking lie and say it was intentional. There is no FUCKING WAY it was intentional, that's just a lie. Period.
Someone post the photo of Soles playing inside with a trench coat on. It cracks me up and reminds me that this is a small gaming company with kids running it.
>>48060229
And they locked the thread.
Though, in defense of that, I doubt the mods had anything to do with this ruling, so it's not like a conspiracy.
>>48060048
Probably Eyriss.
>>48060259
Yep. Hands over ears...
I mean, look at this shit;
http://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?254662-Current-Errata-Threads
That's an errata list TWO FUCKING DAYS after their official release. That's sad. And some of those rulings are just bizarre. The Gang ruling obviously. Or how about the Frenzy Warbeast ruling. If he frenzies, he makes one basic attack. Oh but stuff can trigger off it like Overtake and Snacking. Oh but stuff that may grant an attack can't trigger off that one.
Ok...
I'm new to CoO and Hordes in general. Are there any "must have" models to pick up for them besides Shifting Stones?
>>48060478
Stalker
Ghetorix
Gorax
Bloodtrackers + Nuala
Wilder
>>48060507
>Gorax
You mean Feral
Layer up from gray, or start with white and do a 7-1 gray to water wash on the transitions and curves on those ret jack shoulder pads.
>>48061044
Always layer up if you want to go for white. White does not take well to washing. Of course you should use an airbrush if at all possible.
>>48059418
>>48059412
>>48059687
You know, I went and looked.
Everything changed from melee range to engaged, flank, gang, etc.
So it's entirely possible this change WAS intentional.
Which is fucking mind boggling.
>>48061557
Well, of course the change was intentional. But I doubt the actual target of that change was Gang and Flank and such. They may have just been collateral damage.
>>48061667
Except there's nothing else effected.
>>48061557
The thing is, it also changed charging. You can't charge a knocked down model because you can't be engaged with it. But when people asked about that, the Infernals confirmed it was a mistake and would be changed in the errata.
And even if the Gang/KD thing was intended, why? It's illogical and doesn't seem to serve any kind of balance purpose.
>>48061758
Never said it made sense, just that it might be them going "You don't understand out game" instead of "Shit, we fucked up."
>>48060478
Consider the Kreugers and Kromacs.
Any of the starter sets is a pretty good bargain, I think Tanith looks really good, but I don't play circle so take that with a grain of salt.
>>48060644
>pay 18 for a heavy that either trades and loses my access to primal or just sits back and supports
>or just pay 7 for a support light
Seven
>>48061981
Sits back and supports and then deals damage when you need it is better than sits back and supports and does nothing else light.
Check the texas tournament lists - not a gorax in sight
>>48062021
Ferals are great but you end up accidentally getting like two over you Circle career so I don't know if they count as must buys
>>48062099
Accidentally getting them? I know you got one you don't need in the battlebox, but where would you get the second one accidentally?
K. Back to posting on 4chan after 2 years if absence.
Here's my list for my first MKIII Steamroller.
How badly am I going to get steamrolled?
War Room Army
Legion of Everblight - Rhyas, Backswing into it
Theme: No Theme Selected
75 / 75 Army
Armory - Steamroller Objective
Rhyas, Sigil of Everblight - WB: +30
- Succubus - PC: 4
- Nephilim Protector - PC: 10 (Battlegroup Points Used: 10)
- Zuriel - PC: 18 (Battlegroup Points Used: 18)
- Angelius - PC: 17 (Battlegroup Points Used: 2)
The Forsaken - PC: 4
Strider Deathstalker - PC: 4
Strider Deathstalker - PC: 4
Spell Martyr - PC: 1
The Forsaken - PC: 4
Blighted Nyss Raptors - Leader & 4 Grunts: 18
Blighted Nyss Swordsmen - Leader & 9 Grunts: 15
- Blighted Nyss Swordsmen Abbot & Champion - Abbot & Champion: 6
---
I legit don't care for once if I lose. I just want to make sure my logic is solid.
>>48062221
Probably from the MK3 battlebox.
>>48062296
Shooting lists will eat you alive. Other than that you should be fine. Swordsmen and Raptors will do really well in MK3, assuming of course the former don't get looked at sternly by a guy with a gun.
Have Infernals said anything about WSC and Goreshade1 or Witch Coven?
>>48062351
Why? Attachments for warcaster units just work like for any other warcaster.
>>48062378
Prime says that they can have attached solos, doesn't mention units at all. Same with the Coven's own rule.
>>48062414
Huh. Well that is more of a clarification than a distinct rule. The Warcaster rules say that Warcasters can have an attachment and the Warcaster unit rules state nothing to the contrary.
I'd say it doesn't change anything, it's just shoddily written.
>>48061557
The only thing I've seen that works still is Zaadesh's Tag Team, which says another model in the battlegroup has to have the enemy model in it's melee range, not for it to be engaged like everything else.
>>48057066
>textuploader <dot> com / 5wm4h
> still the old pasty
... wtf wmh general wtf.
>>48062221
>oh you play circle? Want my old super fucking ugly metal feral? Thanks
I have three in total
Metal one, plastic one (love it), extreme one (it was half off)
>>48060478
The Mk3 battlebox is good, and includes a top-tier caster.
The Mk2 battlebox is good, but it includes a trash-tier caster, but you may be able to find it on clearance, so pick one up if you see it.
You'll want shifting stones and the stone keeper. You want a Warpwolf Stalker. You probably want a Druid Wilder. You want a Blackclad Wayfarer. You probably want two. You want a pair of Gallows Groves (which is handy, as their blister includes two).
Beyond Tanith, you want Krueger2 ("Krueger the Stormlord"), probably Kromac2 ("Kromac, Champion of the Wurm"). If you get Kromac2, you *definitely* want Ghetorix. You probably want Ghetorix anyway. Morvahna2 ("Morvahna the Dawnshadow") is still quite good, regardless of whining about her, but she wants a lot of infantry to thrive, and they're more expensive than beasts, so she's probably not the best to start with -- Tanith does love some Reeves of Orboros, but they're not the kind that Morvahna2 really wants to work with anyway.
>>48062296
Zuriel isn't worth it after what they did to him.
Just go with a standard heavy.
>>48063038
Thought I was in the adeva thread for a second there.
>>48057454
Metalic worked well for me.
Shop is doing a journeyman league for Mk3, I ain't entering because I really don't want to buy theSkornebattlebox but I told them I'll give people games using the Mk2 box which funnily enough comes out at 0 points too. We're most likely going to ignore retarded shit in Mk3 for a while. Like today I went to charge a knocked down beast with my caster and was kindly reminded that I'd fail that charge. Like seriously just fuck off.
>>48063349
They've already said charge is being changed to end in melee range instead of end engaged ofr the movement
>>48063349
That one was ruled as wrong a couple of days ago so whoever said it and eat shit, though gang/flank bullshit is still there (not defending PiP and their "we swear we didn't fuck up" backpeddling though)
>>48061981
>he doesn't understand the concept of reserve heavy
>>48063397
>though gang/flank bullshit is still there (not defending PiP and their "we swear we didn't fuck up" backpeddling though)
You didn't think that half a point discount to bloody bradigan was free, did you?
>>48062327
Lol well what's the alternative?
I never felt like Legion had much shooting denial that shooting factions couldn't trivially circumvent.
>>48063038
I'd like to try him out as an assassination threat more than anything, otherwise I'd switch em out for Scyther or Ravagore.
So, trying to plan out a Malekus list, this is my current (pre-Revelator) iteration.
Not sure if I should drop the Idrian boat for 2x Knights Exemplar. Still pondering the Ignite target for the list, but I like (and have) everything except the Idrians.
Any full copies of prime and primal about?
>>48060229
DC?
>>48064185
Doug Seacat.
Guy who designed Convergence, and likely one of their best designers.
>>48064207
He stopped designing rules? What the fuck.
>>48064207
Uh, DC and Doug Seacat are different people.
Coming from a MtG background, the rules for Warmahordes seem like a complete clusterfuck. Today we spent about 10 minutes trying to find where in the book it said what collateral damage was. Like, there's about 10 different references to collateral, but instead of actually saying 2d6+STR in brackets or something, it just leaves you in the dark unless you find that only small reference on the correct page.
>>48064316
This. David carl is DC
>>48064368
Stop skimming. Actually read the entire rule where relevant.
>>48064185
David Carl. Normal dude. Guy knows his shit.
Unlike Jason Soles. Black trenchcoat type. Who doesn't know his shit.
>>48064417
At the time we were trying to figure out how to do damage for a throw and all we could find was references to collateral damage. And before you ask, no, collateral damage is not listed in the index.
>>48064473
I was about to say.
Well I liked Seacat's lore work back in the day. Are his novels any good?
>>48064555
I've only read Blood of Kings by him. It was pretty good, especially for WM fluff. Correia (Into the Storm) is better for WM fluff though, I find.
>>48064536
It's listed under "Damage, Collateral".
Everything relevant is listed in the Index.
>>48064623
I liked both, the Malcontents series really surprised me.
>>48064368
>the rules for Warmahordes seem like a complete clusterfuck
I was just thinking to myself "They're actually pretty good, with the exception of throws and related stuff", and then
>Today we spent about 10 minutes trying to find where in the book it said what collateral damage was.
Yep.
Ignoring the current "engaged vs. in melee range" bullshit, collateral damage is the worst part of the rules set.
>>48064652
Oh silly me, I was looking for collateral damage, not damage collateral. I FEEL LIKE SUCH A FUCKING IDIOT.
>>48064783
I mean, it's the second place I'd look.
>>48064783
Yeah, who would've thought that putting all damage references in one place would be so confusing.
>>48065200
Who needs glasses when you have hindsight?
>>48062296
Why would you bother with a spell martyr over a shepherd? Rhyas doesn't really have anything worth arcing through a martyr.
>>48064207
>designed Convergence
>one of their best designers.
You, uh, have LOOKED at the vectors, right? With your eyes?
>>48065592
... Good point. I still keep thinking Shepherds are 2.
>>48064207
>>48065663
He meant ruleswise
Also fuck you vectors look cool
>>48064536
Now I know you're full a shit since it refers you to the page with colateral damage.
How do you guys think a Khador Semi-Gunline would work in Mk3? This is what I'm thinking so far
Irusk2
*Behemoth
*Rager
*War Dog
Winter Guard Artillery Kapitan
WG Rifle Corps
WG Mortar Crew
WG Mortar Crew
WG Field Gun
WG Field Gun
Iron Fang Pikemen
My meta only really ever plays 50pt games so. Opinions most welcome
>>48066980
less artillery, more rocketeers. You also want to expand the pikemen with UA and such so they can hold in the front more.
>>48067002
Didn't realise WGRC could take rocketeers! that makes a huge difference in my thought for this list now
>>48058885
Mine got enough to cover all preorders but 1, and had 2 faction decks per faction and an extra ret battlebox.
What would your dream Karchev list be? My friend wants to play against him (skorne player) and I have no idea what to play with him. Have just about everything khador can take, including most mercs
>>48067985
Karchev and 15 Mad Dogs.
>>48067985
Karchev
- Beast09
- Ruin
- Juggernaut
- Juggernaut
- Grolar
- Beserker
Max Mechanics
Widowmaker Scouts
>>48067985
Maybe something like
Karchev
Behemoth
2x Jugger
Kodiak
Widowmakers
Marksman
Min Kossites
Max Mechanics
2x Eliminators
Hutchuk
Ragman
>>48067446
Dude my Irusk2 list is behemoth, ruin, a unit of black dragons, a unit of assault commandos, and a unit of rifle corps with Joe and 2 rocketeers. It's fucking brutal.
>>48068449
hutchuk?
looks similar to what i was thinking, had bailoch and ternion injstead of kossites / ragman
>>48065925
No, Aurora looks cool. The winged infantry look cool. The TEP even looks cool. The vectors look like rejects from one of those robot fighting competitions.
Hey guys I havent really been round the previews of mk3 but I was wondering if Amon is gud now.
>>48069054
Likely the best in Protectorate.
>>48069381
oh really? well that certainly is a step up from m2's "jack catser that has not enough focus to be a jack caster"
is he still a jack caster though? or did they change how he operates?
>>48069545
He's a pure jack caster. With power up and cheaper heavies, he's seriously good. Like S-tier good.
>>48057454
I used the Menoth scheme's Sanguine Reds instead of white, but kept the rest of the studio scheme the same. Ended up being real fuckin' nice, earthy, and somewhat more realistic than the fuckin' straight white animu shoulders.
>>48068547
you use AKs outside of Strakhov?
>>48068748
Problem with bailoch and ternion is neither trigger road to war, and the list doesn't hugely benefit from the clouds.
Hutchuk and kossites ambushing gives some scenario game to an otherwise slow list, and can take out stuff like the choir to help give the 'jacks an edge.
>>48070164
Aks are decent, their pokemon damage immunities are pretty strong into menoth and legion, and Rat 6 sprays are always nice.
Battle Lust makes them POW 11 weaponmasters too, which is pretty decent.
>>48064158
READ THE FUCKING OP
So, we totally need a comic about Raiders being all ready to destroy a Cyngar Junior until one of them accidentally headbutts him, and the rest of them get mad and refuse to help.Bonus points for /ss/
>>48070328
Does that justify 16pts + 2pts per flamethrower tho? I'd rather spend that on Pikemen and give them Battlelust
>>48070345
he wants the books with the fluff not the rules alone. Probably why everyone else ignored it, there are no scans yet.
>>48070536
Your wish is my command.kindof
>>48071351
like this better, although the comics are still very cancerous in general
>>48071359
What makes them cancerous?
>>48071474
the pure cancer of it.
>>48072045
>SKREEONK
>>48072095
yup, there it is
>>48062553
>http://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?254662-Current-Errata-Threads
There are MK1 books too.
As far as I know, new faction books wasn't published in digital form yet.
So what's the deal with hex hunters? Are they any good now, better, worse?
>>48072476
Good:
* 0.5 pts cost
* Grunted: Shadow Bind for swords on attachment
Bad:
* -1 SPD
* No Grunted: Hunter on attachment
* Prowl instead of Stealth
Overall: Worse, but still playable
>>48062296
Hello vassal user who i'm sure i know!
>>48059387
>>48059412
>>48059418
>>48059614
>>48059622
>>48059844
>>48060163
Total noob and non-regular here. What I am gathering from this is that PP decided you have to be enganged to the target to get flank/gang meaning knock-downed targets or targets that otherwise dont engange can't be flaked/ganged? Am I understanding this right?
>>48072822
When a model is knocked down, it cannot be engaged (a term basically signifying active melee combat exchange). It can be targeted by attacks and I think is even hit automatically. The issue is that Flank and Gang both specify that the target must be engaged by an ally (either from the same unit in the case of gang, or by a model/unit/type specified by flank[thing]) to grant the bonus.
It seems to me (at best) that they were running with a line of reasoning that tries to encourage knocking things down to open line of sight paths and such for shooting or something. Worst case (and seemingly more likely) is they dun goofed.
>>48072913
"in melee" is
>a term signifying active melee combat exchange.
>>48072913
The simple solution is to change things that require you to be engaged like Flank, Gang, and Charge (which I believe they've already done), to require you to be in melee range. Tag Team already works this way despite basically being the exact same thing.
>Tag Team
>While in the spellcaster’s control range, models in its battlegroup gain +2 on melee attack and melee damage rolls against models within melee range of another model in the spellcaster’s battlegroup
Anyone have a link to No Quarter 66?
>>48070702
Pikemen can't shoot things on the way in. Pikemen don't have rat6 assault shots or rat 6 sprays.
Black dragons, AK's and WGRC+2 rocketeers + Joe I feel will be a new list core.
so I havent really been keeping up
35pts and 50pts was the norm for mk2
however given the point cost lowering of many units in addition to the doubling of jack/beast costs, will 70 to 100pts seem too much? It almost seems that 100pt mk3 is the equivalent of 70pt mk2.
>>48074048
50 was of mk2 what 75 is for mk3
35 in mk2 is 50 in mk3
don't expect everything from your old shitlist to fit. but you'd be surprised how much shit you can jam in there.
>>48058378
yeah m8 i also spout bullshit.
>>48074151
>you'd be surprised how much shit you can jam in there.
This is partially given by Warcaster points going from "one spare Jack maybe" to "3 spare Jacks easily". Ditto for Hordes.
>>48059387
The KD - gang rule is as baffling as being able to attack your own models but _not_ charge them...
But as we all know fluff =/= crunch and there are no house rules in warmachine.
So suck it up and deal with it niggas.
>>48064473
Yep DC could into rules. Soles cannot.
I'm sorry for the guy, but honestly I could have done better over the course of a weekend.
>>48074385
mk3 is definitely them going "this is WARMACHINE. HAVE MORE JACKS"
khador casters finally are going to take more than one jack!
Am I the only one that wouldnt mind a subgame of simplified rules where its focused on dozens of grunts grinding up against each other?
as opposed to "its like chess but your king is also the queen"
and please dont joke "lul 40k"
>>48074479
what you describe is more like "lul AoS" really
>>48074479
>"its like chess but your king is also the queen"
>warcasters are the tranny chess piece
>>48074489
AoS doesnt even have an official point system!
>>48074552
It does now, actually.
>>48074549
>warcasters are the tranny chess piece
pretty sure either Convergence, Legion, Cryx, or Cephs might actually do that
ah hell, circle could voodoo that shit too. and maybe even Menoth might inspire someone to transcend their birth gender.
>>48074558
man I have been under a rock in forever
hard to imagine its actually been a year since AoS release.
>>48074393
it makes sense in one situation.
sort of seems like maybe flank or gang is supposed to be different to how it is now. but....
the situation is that the benefit is there for when you are attacking an enemy who is fighting another of your models.
if that enemy is knocked down, then your model isn't being engaged by it. so you not getting the bonus is sort of not quite so shit.
compared to using it as an attacking boost, like everyone seems to think it is supposed to be.
personally flank should be different, while gang can stay the way they've written.
why?
because if you attack a gang member, the gang is going to attack you.
but if instead one gang member attacks you, the rest of the gang might not attack you.
while if my force advances and engages your army, and then i flank with a strike force catching you unawares, therefore getting a bonus makes sense on the attack.
>>48074581
I don't think Menoth would care as long as you showed total obedience and produced babies to become more upstanding Menites.
>>48071826
>>48072045
>>48072095
>>48072104
Actually I'm not skreeonkanon.
>>48074687
Actually the Protectorate has pretty solid stances on 'things as Menoth intended it' and 'kill the abomination'. And I'm pretty sure a hermaphrodite would be considers an abomination as sorcerers are also considered abominations.
>>48074695
It's not like I have copyright on the comic format.
Nice one, anon.
And if anyone's wondering why I haven't made any in forever it's because I've beenenjoying the sunshine,helping my parents renovate, andplaying the game instead of just ranting about it.
As always, ideas are appreciated.
>>48074774
Are you really comparing Thamar's Gift, which can actually be dangerous to human life on a large scale, and a brain disorder to be of the same magnitude?
No, I'm pretty sure the theologians would keep it quiet. They wouldn't obtain any ranking societal positions if importance or much power, but as long as they said the prayers, offered their faith and produced babies for the crusade, a lot of them would turn a blind eye.
Now if they were running around trying to persuade others into deviancy abd non-offspring priducing relations, upsetting the status quo, or in general being an etesore, the scrutators would have a field day torturing the gender fluid sparklefag.
>>48074793
Can you make one with 2 liches lamenting about raider knockdown/gang?
What about a shark-smile, door to door lich, trying to convince a warcaster to buy a unit of bloodgorgers and revenants.
so has skorne not really changed at all?
still hordes of nihilators and titans chopping stuff up.
>>48075026
it got worse basically, except for rasheth and titan gladiators
>>48074793
>>48074989
How about the Satyxis Captain training he other Satyxis with drills and one of the Satyxis keeps on rolling crits to KD the dummy?
Something along the lines of "Damn it Carl!"
>>48075081
>Male satyxis
>>48075090
>DAMMIT KRYSSA!
>>48072574
Well on Vassal it's harder to lose your models.
Just found out my UA and Nyss swordsmen are MIA from my foam tray. Meaning they are in storage somewhere.
I'm just swapping in Warspears because I legit have nothing else aside from Spears and Striders.
>>48074989
Good idea, I ended up with something similar.
>>48075594
Well if we're on the topic of Rengrave and fucked rules and you are looking for inspiration, here's a treat:
Rengrave has Cleave, which triggers on destroyed. He also has Death Toll, which triggers on boxed and transits straight to RfP (though only on living warriors, you know, the kind of target one would want Cleave against).
>>48076003
http://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?253473-Rengrave-cleave&p=3583210
Changed from Cleave to Rapid Strike. Must not have been a "This is how we playtested it so this is how it works" interaction.
>>48076139
I see. Thanks for the info.
So I've only just noticed but Targ is fucking insane. Can I really just take him in Skorne with no problems? I feel as though there should be a downside to a 4 point model that not only does the Willbreaker's job better than it, but also has Ancillary Attack.
>>48076324
Oh fuck I just noticed you can only attach him to Minions warlocks. The dream is over.
>>48074855
PP is a total SJW company (source: http://privateerpress.com/company/harassment-policy), so a tranny warcaster/warlock is only a matter of time. It will most likely be an established character too. I'm betting on Zerkova.
I feel as though models being removed from play is kind of redundant now that tough has been brought into line. Surely just removing it from the game and making everything be destroyed wouldn't cause that many issues, right?
>>48076498
Well, first of all, Tough and RFP never really interacted. You know you got to tough off most RFP effects, right?
Second, it prevents recursion abilities.
>>48076139
>http://charbon-et-charentaise.org/blog/content/app-release.apk
have they fixed that Venetrax can never get souls from his melee kills yet?
>>48076348
Wait hang on a minute, what's the point of Targ being able to work for Skorne if he can only be bonded to Minions warlocks? Incase you feel like playing a 2 warlock game?
>>48076723
Pretty much, yea.
>>48076723
yes, I mean thats the entire point of all merc and minion locks and casters (and their attachments)
fun fact. magnus is the only warcaster that will work for hordes, more specifically skorne.
>>48076866
I know. Orin Midwinter is likewise the only Merc, and also for Skorne.
>>48076897
Nyss.
>>48076866
No, magnus doesnt work for skorne anymore as of mk3
>>48076910
THANKS PP MY LIST IS INVALIDATED
>>48076906
Shut the FUCK up no one asked you.
>>48076637
Not as far as I know. And they probably won't. Guess you'll just have to try to use the Eruption to kill more things for souls. Gotta have options, right?
>>48074615
nice try. Still a load of rubbish, but at least you tried to explain it.
Every time someone makes a post about being gay, or how wmh would be better if it became a pamphlet to promote gay people, I will post a CHEESE.
This amounts to four cheeses so far.
How do you like your cheese, wmh? What's your cheese of choice for game night?
>>48077173
Take your persecution complex and leave. Nobody is trying to turn you into a faggot, you already are.
why why did they go out of their way to make Shedders so fucking bad in the new edition.
I don't about removal of tenacity. It's just that they replaced the thing with a completely unplayable model in return.
a PS 10 flanker is a waste of points and I will never run more because they brought back a retarded and unfun rule on a low fury beast that will be full. Sorry but 8-12 points that is just going to kill themselves in a waste.
So can't take multiples waste of 4 points for only 1, and of course the animus is trash at SELF so it's not even worth taking 1. I would gladly take 1 in certain lists to give Typhon pathfinder but nope, that would make legion too good again I suppose.
And no this isn't salt, I accepted and got over the Eyeless sight change fast.
Nah stuff like this and the fact that the Carni chassis went to spd 5 for no good reason are what really piss me off about the faction change.
Also no I'm not bad because I have 9001 Thagrosh shredders, as of the new starter I only have 6 but that is six models I will never have a use for which sucks.
Speaking of the starter, the Neraph really can't contend. If it were the same as it is now BUT still as fury 4 then I think it would be used but nah let's make it fury 3 again for no reason why PP design department everyone.
Enough rant, everyone having fun in mark 3?
>>48077426
You're kind of retarded, aren't you?
>>48077426
>is anyone having fun in mkiii?
I guess? I'm still very disenchanted from the roll out and just complete rules cluster fuck. I really have a hard time believing the gang/flank change is intentional. It just makes the game *less* streamlined imho.
>>48077519
this
>>48077519
why because I have legit opinions?
>>48077536
I mean, because you believe you do, yes.
>>48077560
would you take a shredder or more in a a list?
>>48077579
I mean, I don't play Legion, so that gets a pretty obvious answer from me.
>>48077589
Why are you even replying then? It does feel like legion got nerfed quite a bit but at least I don't have to deal with the salt of everyone hating playing against it
>>48077528
What was the gang/flank change exactly?
>>48078029
I never minded playing against Legion, most of it's players were bad. For example, your complaints.
There are things to complain about in Legion, and you've missed all of them.
>>48078031
Knockdown/Stationary models can't be engaged. Gang/Flank requires engaging to work.
So if a Raider rolls a crit knockdown against an enemy model, she loses the damage bonus for gang.
>>48078193
That's stupid. I'm shocked they aren't just errating it.
>>48078495
They specifically said that it's working as intended, which is why people are pissed.
do you think sexbots have been invented in warmahordes?
>>48078593
And what about dragon dildos? Made by frigid nyss women from the flesh of an actual dragon?
>>48078193
>There are things to complain about in Legion, and you've missed all of them.
By all means enlighten us anon.
>>48078842
>us
>>48078593
Old, old, old tech. Anon. Iron Maidens, Steelsoul Protectors probably derive from them.
You see, way back in the day what they would do is identify an accomplished warrior woman, kill her, and enslave her soul into an artfully sculpted mechanical body to be somebody's loyal bodyguard/eternal slave. Good times.
Is anyone else super bothered by the plastic castigator?
Either the fuel tubes connect to different parts of the chassis, or the pauldrons are not parallel.
>>48079105
I don't have mine yet, but i'm told a hair dryer to heat it up just enough to make the plastic malleable does the trick. So that way you can make the tubes fit, but like I said I haven't tried.
>>48078593
What do you think the Iron Mother Directrix is? A sexbot.
Question for those who know, what is the Retribution fluff come MK3? Did Skorne take over half the country? Did Gorshade make it Scyrah? And where in the world is Adeptis Rahn?
>>48080127
Skorne was defeated, an earthquake out of nowhere also destroyed every single fucking fortress they had in the west because "lol fuck skorne" attitude by PP.
so retribution kicked their asses. Skornes going to need more mammoths to drop on the elves in future
>>48080164
Really? Deus ex earthquake? For a race of dead gods they sure have a lot of divine intervention.
>>48080256
The earthquake was caused by the Devourer Wurm's brief appearance on Caen in Devastation.
>>48080256
Rule of wargames
Have X Factions?
Ok nothing too terrible can happen to X Factions, otherwise they cant be a faction.
>>48059387
I've done a lot of defending/justifying changes in MK3 but this one is sooo fucking stupid. In fact when I read the few justifications for it I get really mad. It's such a stretch to bring up some fluff interpretation of the terms gang/flank. If they where only an attack bonus then yeah sure. However, the same line of thought about why you'd get extra damage should apply to _every single model attacking a helpless target_.
At some point gameplay needs to come into the picture when designing rules.
>>48074393
I can 100% support the no charge thing. It's a very specific gameplay and tournament oriented change to cut down threat range of things like feat. I'll even be playing Gorten in the future whom is arguably the most affected by such a change due to low spd and focus stats.
It's boggling from a fluff perspective but this is a game and rule sets need to do what's right from a gameplay perspective now and then.
>>48064473
Now I don't hate soles like many do. However, I'm a shadowrun player and I take issue with you calling him a black trenchcoat type. That suggests a level of careful pre-planning.
Anyway thanks /tg/ I needed to vent about this stupid stupid change.
>>48077173
>>48077190
>>48077269
>>48077289
Ahh, someone else in the Wisconsin meta.
Is there any reason to play eFeora instead of Amon now?
The only one I can think of is that 15/19 is a fair bit better of a defensive statline than 16/14, but that really isn't enough to build a list off of
>>48080962
Feora's more of a ranged caster?
>>48078879
That royal we, wew lad.
>>48080973
>he fell for the firestarter meme
>>48080962
So far I'm thinking Malekus does Feora better than Feora.
I'm focusing on Amon, Malekus, both Sevvies, and Kreoss1 right now, and don't (yet) see much reason to worry too much about other PoM casters.
Vindictus, though, maybe.
>>48081709
I think pReznik has a lot of merit. As much as Amon? Maybe not, but he's got some terrifying assassination potential.
>>48081709
What's wrong with Kreoss 2 and 3?
>>48081758
Nothing *wrong* with them, but I don't yet see them as top-tier.
>>48081744
He's definitely good now, but as you said, not as scary as Amon. I probably need to work with him more, though, as he could be an excellent pair to Amon, as Amon's only real weakness is assassination, and I'd like to pair him with something that threatens a crazy assassination.
>>48081709
I actually built a Thyra list I really like.
War Room Army
Protectorate of Menoth - Thyra
Theme: No Theme Selected
75 / 75 Army
Thyra, Flame of Sorrow - WJ: +29
- Hierophant - PC: 3
- Guardian - PC: 15 (Battlegroup Points Used: 15)
- Hand of Judgment - PC: 18 (Battlegroup Points Used: 14)
- Blood of Martyrs - PC: 16
Vassal of Menoth - PC: 3
Vassal of Menoth - PC: 3
Choir of Menoth - Leader & 3 Grunts: 4
Deliverer Sunburst Crew - Gunner & 2 Grunts: 5
Flame Bringers - Leader & 4 Grunts: 17
Daughters of the Flame - Leader & 5 Grunts: 10
Daughters of the Flame - Leader & 5 Grunts: 10
---
GENERATED : 07/02/2016 20:19:16
BUILD ID : 2021.16-06-25
It's super fast. Daughters and Flamebringers with Occultation are across the table on turn two.
>>48076637
That's fine actually. Him denying fury is probably the better thing
What are some good generic picks for Minions? My LGS owner has decided to get into the game with them, at the moment his 75 points of stuff is:
(Barnabas 1) Bloody Barnabas [+28]
- Blackhide Wrastler [16]
- Boneswarm [7]
- Ironback Spitter [15]
- Ironback Spitter [15]
- Bull Snapper [5]
Croak Raiders (max) [17]
Gatorman Posse (max) [18]
Viktor Pendrake [4]
Gatorman Witch Doctor [4]
It only works out at 73, but after looking through Minions I'm pretty damn sure he should be using Targ since the Spitter seems pretty good. Not only is Targ insane at managing your beasts, but Ancillary attack with a beast that 1) dumps 4" continuous corrosive blasts, and 2) still manages to put out good melee damage is insane. I'd also recommend a Bellows Crew for him since while Barnabas can drop swamps, the Bellows Crew straight up blocks LOS with clouds.
>>48082771
Actually forget the Boneswarm, it was 2x Croak Hunters, so he was only missing 1 point.
Have I mentioned Harkevitch is great? He is REALLY great.
He solidly and fantastically ran 5 Warjacks (Black Ivan, 2 Destroyers, 2 Kodiaks), to completely obliterate a Cryx Force, even after I stupidly ended up marching my Rifle Core through a forest so they ended up doing nothing.
Casualties in a 75 point game where 1 field gun dude, and 3 mechanics 1 of which I killed myself.
Enemy Casualties included a full max unit of Satyrix Raiders, Full Bane Warrior Unit+UA, And Some heavy Warjacks, and a Warwitch Siren.
Flipping MASSACRE!
Also not to cryx players. Use Bane Warriors as a second wave. They do not tar well.
>>48082954
>POW8 bonk
>>48083084
What do you mean by that?
>>48078691
The lore makes it sound like Everblight coming stoked the fires of passion in the Nyss and now they fuck like bunnies.
The shredders like to watch, from the side of the table.
>>48083666
trips of truth!
we need more meme content dammit
>>48083713
So end of MKiii is coming already.
Jesus Christ, that was fast
>>48062296
Kk. BatRep time.
I got Steamrolled from bad play the first two games.
First game was against Minions funline. I didn't properly use Raptors and essentially had them wiped out trivially by croaks. Swapping occultation on Warspears did the job of preventing shooting very well.
Death was premature because Rhyas charged in and failed to kill what she needed and then proceeded to be blown to bits.
Second was against trolls Funnbjorn army. He feated at the best time and denied my a shooting turn, and was set to properly retaliate and dominate the following turn. Low fury meant I wasn't able to get every spell I needed out on the board on time. I got three feat charges on Gunnbjorn with Raptors, one succeeded but was transferred away.I misplayed the reaping rule leading to an irreparable game state and forfeited the match. Opponent was a bro and we reracked for a decidedly less shitty game. I lost both by being blown to bits.
The final and best game ironically came from Cygnar.Tit for tat till the very end. I eventually could not fully recover from the attrition advantage my opponent possessed from the second turn onwards but lucky dice in the second turn kept me in the game for a round longer. Rhyas was blown to bits though, but we got to live the dream of actually killing heavies and doods and shit.
TlDR: I've played some games, but more often than not felt like I was at a disadvantage both tactically and skill wise, as I got blown off the table. Would probably not play in a tournament again, but it's nice to play a game with the actual minis for once instead of pixels on the screen.
>>48084935
Well, at least you are having fun.
The game is becoming a grinder for me. I'm probably gonna quit the game when september hits
>>48082954
>Khador is easy mode the post
>>48085044
Yeah, I'm just keeping this game for casuals.
While I had fun, its just not what it used to mean for me after all my friends stopped playing it.
Imma still paint my Legion hella tight tho.
Cryx player slammed my Bronzeback into my caster, killing poor new caster with an X name.
i cri erry tiem
>>48085422
Damn, son. No camp?
>>48082954
>to completely obliterate a Cryx Force
Wow, that's completely unheard of in the new edition.
Anybody here UK based could give me a rundown of what's the best place to buy WMH minis? I usually hear about Wayland Games and Element games. I'm mostly interested in who is the cheapest.
>>48082954
>Bane Warriors ... do not tar well.
Tough will be missed, sorely.
>>48088054
i'm not in the uk.
but i've found wayland games to be just about the cheapest everytime, and that includes shipping all the way to nz.
sometimes there is an american seller who is cheaper, by a little, but then their postage is rotten expensive - and in my experience slower than royal mail!!
and just a quick look @ element, and they aren't as cheap as wayland right now.
i've also found trolltrader on ebay to be reasonable, but there's probably cheaper if you don't have to worry about sending things to the other side of the planet...
>>48088054
Wayland games and the troll trader.
It's also worth to join the faction communities on crapbook cause every now and then someone sells their army.
Trying to work on an eSevvy list.
I feel like I'm brain-locked on PoM theorymachining, as I keep ending up with either Amon jackspam or ranged-heavy with everyone else (and sporting a big assassination threat).
I think I like Tristan + dual Redeemers too much, but damn it looks good. I like dual Sunbursts a lot, but between theorymachine and Mk3 experience on table, they feel like autoincludes in every PoM list to me.
>>48059340
Different anon, but please god, someone say there is. I'm completely broke and only get paid every 2 weeks, and really want to play in my FLGS' launch event tonight
>>48089421
Reminds me of my latest list..l
>>48089658
Yep. Several similar themes there.
Have you run Tristan + dual Redeemers yet? Is it as good as it looks on paper? I've only managed to get Amon on the table so far (I tried to start Menoth last year, picked up an all-in-one, but didn't get stuff on my painting table until a couple of months ago, so I have like... one list so far).
>>48089724
He's great but has the problem any journeyman with warjacks does.
Also positioning can be awkward so that's why I have a max unit of Choir, to still catch the redeemer and reckoners at the same time.
>>48086994
Well if it makes you feel any better I got completely schooled by his cryx force next game with a smaller battlegroup with kharchev.
>>48067985
My default Karchev list currently:
Karchev
-Behemoth
-Destroyer
-Destroyer
-Devastator
WGRC+3 rockets+Joe
Widowmakers
Mechanics
Sit back and shoot while messing with opp plans via road to war and devastator. If opp commits to melee, you wreck his stuff with feat.
Would also work with B1, Z2, V1, Hark with slight changes.
Question regarding accumulator- say I have a desecrator next to a unit of banes and tartarous. Do I get 1 or 2 focus? Not counting power up, obvi
>got latest hordes book
>ooh I cant wait to use these new gargs
>suddenly edition change without even getting the model
so what do I use this book for now? kindling?
>>48091058
Only retards buy anything that can be pirated for free. You only live once, why waste your money that you could be spending on things that can't be pirated? With all the money you spent on books you could've gone on a vacation to Japan.
>>48057066
But mortars and heavy machine guns are semi-stationary, not fully stationary. What if they need to relocate? Crew served weapons are also a lot more complicated than single-user ones. Do you expect a child to understand what angle or direction to fire the mortar so it hits the right general area?
>>48091955
You'd likely use them in entrenched positions, where the gun's not moving.
And as far as aiming goes, you'd just have a trained person to do that. Anyone can walk rounds in provided they've got someone sighting for them, and you need someone dealing with the radio on the mortar anyways, he can just as easily control the mortars target.
>>48091955
They will learn... quickly
>Someone at my LGS is deciding to pick up the game and they're starting with Skorne
>I now have someone to share my pain with
>>48090951
Just one unless wording says per model/unit
>>48080962
Did anyone here save that vessel of judgement amon conversion that was posted a week ago?
>>48092535
>Shared pain is best pain
>>48093399
>>48092535
So from what I understand Skorne are powered by pain and suffering. So is the reason that Skorne is weak is because their players aren't willing to suffer enough?
>>48094473
Get out, Will.
#DesignSpace
>Three Years A PP Game Tester
>>48094473
Not so much powered by, it's just that their warriors are desperate to prove themselves in combat so their soul isn't tortured for eternity when they die. There's only so many sacral stones to go around.
>>48094823
Their magic is straight up based on the concept of channeling pain and death.
>>48094836
Okay there's always that aspect.
>missed out on horde boardgame KS
>now I cannot has super cheap minion army
I hate slowpoking! its like "buy 4 minion beasts, get a shit ton of other models for free". I dont give a shit that their bg plastics may not be as good, beasts are costly!
I'm not sure I have enough Shield Guards.
Seriously though, combined with an ADR of:
TEP 19
Inverter 15
Diffuser 6
I think this is going to be in my pairings. I've put it on the table once and it did fine, I just need to figure out how it does in general, instead of just as an anti shooting list.
>>48094942
Whoops.
>>48093239
Here anon. Got any questions?
>>48093239
This one?
Can someone give me the tl;dr on why skorne is bad in mk3
No one in my playgroup plays them so we're curious on what happened.
>>48100030
their workhorses got badly nerfed, a lot of other things also got nerfed, and they didnt get much buffed
the most influential nerfs were to the beast handlers' enrage no longer giving free charges, the titans having their fury and defense reduced, far strike becoming self-only, and side step no longer ignoring free strikes (this really only mattered for karn, but it hurt him a lot)
a lot of other nerfs also happened, like croak raiders getting weaker also hurting incindiarii, losing the fist of halaak theme hamstringing xerxis1, and spell slave no longer allowing marketh to cast upkeeps
some stuff got better, like the reivers getting cheaper, the agonizer and rasheths feat affecting non-living models, morg2 getting his old feat back, vorkesh giving sacred ward instead of spell ward (this is actually very significant for every single defenders ward caster) and the venator dakar being good, but on the whole it very strongly appears the nerfs outweigh the buffs significantly
>>48100207
Don't forget they lost their ranged defensive tech in the Krea, in addition to it losing the benefits of Far Strike(and now flank being pretty conditional).
>>48100317
the kreas new animus is good though, while the new far strike is awful
>>48100486
It's fine as an animus, but nothing compared to it's old one.
Anyone have experince running Mohsar? What have you guys found to work/not work?
Played khador in the journeyman.
Holy fuck this is unbalanced. My decimator was single handedly crippling lights and being 14 inches away from its target at the end of the turn. My khador was consistently outthreating everyone, including circle. And then I look at fucking menoth, whose feat means the repenter's flamethrower rolls an extra die and that's about fucking it. I felt bad when my decimator's first shot of the game on round 2 crippled that thing's flamethrower.
>>48100537
Low level games are super unbalanced, yea.
For example, the Menoth BB caster's feat can be ballbbusting.
>>48100571
It's ball busting if you let the repenter light your caster on fire.
But I don't give a single shit about additional die fire damage rolls on arm 20 jacks. If he boosts the damage on the repenter that means it's like 6 boxes on a jack, and I think that immolation is 8? And then 2 or 3 from continuous fire. That's not ball busting when you out threat him.
>>48100628
I'm not talking about BB or low level games, man.
I'm talking about when he puts an entire army on the table that has decently high POW fire damage.
>>48100654
Yeah, that's true. We discussed that at the store. He's basically worthless in a battlebox game but can be pretty legit once you start taking cleansers and sunbursts.
Anyway, he made me feel better about taking a decimator in my Full Steam battlegroup only list with harkevich. Because repositioning with ranged jacks can really fuck with your opponent.
(Harkevich 1) Kommander Harkevich, The Iron Wolf [+28]
- Behemoth [24]
- Black Ivan [19]
- Decimator [16]
- Ruin [17]
- Juggernaut [12]
- Devastator [14]
>>48100807
Dude, take the 8 point heavies, it'll be hilarious.
To celebrate freedom day, does anyone have that image of the circle griffon painted up as a bald eagle wrapped in flags?
>>48101040
Sadly, I only have two berserkers. They'd do well with butcher 1 because of boosted melee and free charges, but he has no threat extension. Hark has the threat extension a BG only force wants, but has no way to make berserkers more accurate. It's a shame.
>>48095453
>>48099432
That's the conversion, thanks for the post! I linked the guy who was thinking about it in case he has questions.
Pic Unrelated, painted my hellmouth yesterday,
So I haven't played in a while, and just noticed that Mk3 has been released. How do Menoth work in the new rules?
>>48101188
Goddammit.
Where'd you manage to get that?
>>48101662
LnL
>>48101662
lock and load, probably. or maybe he's a future timeman posting from the year 20XX. Hellmouth is pretty good in mk5 I hear, really made up for the nerfs in mk4.5.
>>48101662
Lock and Load.
>>48101704
Shh. They can hear you. They're coming.
Don't answer the door.
>>48101482
>How do Menoth work in the new rules?
The same, but better. Harby sacrificed her rules so that the rest of the faction could git gud.
>>48100684
And the Revelator isn't out yet...
>>48100507
To put it in perspective, if they'd kept the old krea animus you probably wouldn't be getting as many complaints about models losing defense.
>>48102344
I'll go on to state that if you had polled the faction and said that they could either get the other nerfs they're complaining about (titans defense 10, light warbeasts losing armor, titan fury losses, and no free charges)... well, on account of the free charges thing there would be a pretty violent internal debate... but I think "Krea Remain" might have won it.
>>48102344
The armor is what hurts so hard. Like, the Krea is way better at protecting the light infantry that Skorne didn't super care about, but now it can't protect their heavies anymore.
And with gunlines becoming so much more powerful, well, it feels like an especially nasty nerf.
>>48102407
I would say fury/charge issue, but I do agree that it's a major faction balancing factor.
>>48102450
I do feel like the Fury changes were to change the focus of the faction, so they feel massive, but I'm curious as to how they'll shift.
Krea is a straight nerf though, and a nerf in a spot that would have helped them survive the new edition a lot.
>>48102512
I wouldn't have minded the nerf if the Skorne reverted to mki where they were all about feeding their infantry into the grinder and coming out better for it through souls or vengeance.
but they didn't... they just suck now. I don't even play skorne and I have my sympathies
>>48102614
I mean, there's some good shit in the faction now.
Both their Gargs got much better(Well, the Hydra just makes sense now), Rasheth is amazing, and some of their other choices seem really solid.
>>48102450
I'd have said that in the end, we can make up fury performance with slightly more bodies- but if we lost Paralytic Aura, we've got *nothing* that can stand in for it. Suddenly the best way to deliver a Gladiator is to buy two Gladiators, and it sure as shit ain't certain.
>>48102646
Rasheth isn't amazing, he's just good.
>>48102980
A four point ranged armor swing is pretty damn good, especially with the buffs to Skorne's range game.
>>48102407
Is titian def reduction really that big of a deal? Most things previously had to roll below average to miss and that hasnt changed a whole lot.
>>48103306
against shooting the def actually meant something combined with the krea aura
>>48103306
If they were still def 12, then +2 ranged def is actually impactful. There's a lot of rat 5 out there.
>>48103306
Ask Circle if going from def 14 to def 12 would be a big deal, because that's what we're looking at with the krea or with some form of concealment like ashen veil. Skorne had a fair number of ways to increase def, and still does. But increasing def when your base def is 10 is pretty pointless.
>>48103306
12/19 was the best heavy statline in the game, and 10/19 is a huge nerf.
MAT/RAT6 stuff went from needing 6s to needing 4s, and MAT/RAT5 went from 7s to 5s. Those are huge changes in the odds of hitting.
Especially since the +2DEF bonus from the Krea existed(and still does). 14/19 would be an excellent statline to deal with heavy gunlines, 12/19 not so much.
>>48103448
For reference, 6s 72.22% is while 4s is 91.67%
And 7s is 58.33% while 5s is 83.33%
So that drop of 2DEF means you're looking at getting hit 20% more often by shit, which is 1-2 extra weaponmasters or extra heavy attacks. That's often the difference between a dead or alive beast.
>>48103448
>and 10/19 is a huge nerf.
10/19 is the statline that the jack factions(CoC and Menoth) get. only makes since that the beast heavy skorne also get 10/19
>>48103912
This isn't a debate about if the nerf was warranted or not, just the implications.
Beyond that, Menoth have a shitload of anti tough tech, and CoC's entire faction is built around the fact that individually, their stuff has terrible stats, and requires you to do a lot of chaining to get their money's worth.
>>48103912
This is mainly a problem with shooting. Guess what Menoth doesn't give a shit about? That's right, non-magical shooting on warjacks. And if you don't use passage, menoth has arm buffs that work vs shooting.
For CoC, you have a caster that has a +4 arm feat (the best Skorne can manage is a +2 arm feat) and another one with reconstruct and auto repair. Also jacks have more boxes than beasts.
>>48104020
>(the best Skorne can manage is a +2 arm feat)
Sure, but they also have several +DEF feats to help against shooting. Xelkar arguably has the best defensive feat in the game.
>>48104046
Yeah, better feat and then trow him into that gunline. Otherwise it's not going to do jack.
>>48104020
>the best Skorne can manage is a +2 arm feat
We have a 7 point lesser that has a pseudo +2ARM bubble on top of other dumb utility. Yeah sure Titans lost 2DEF, but they basically gained 2ARM which is a trade I'd take any day of the week. Like damn son they didn't just blindly nerf Titans without buffing other stuff. And it's not like a Gladiator can't take out any given heavy in one activation. And FYI the Bronzeback still kills anything it wants to kill outside of colossals which was always retarded anyway.
>>48100030
>Fury Management
Condition on beasthandlers got nerfed so there is less fury management
Enrage no longer gives free charges and Skorne now has no access to free charges
Titans had their fury reduced
>Defensive stats
Titans had their def reduced by 2
Cataphracts lost 3 boxes
>Animus
Far Strike became self only
Fatewalker got worse
Krea bubble lost its Arm bonus
Skorne gained Spiny Growth but Spiny Growth became self only
Sentry lost Locker
Losing theme forces hurt Cataphract play or usage
Morg2 got his feat back but lost a few rules (like immunity to CMA/CRA) and traded out Silence of Death (which got buffed in Mk3) for a shitty nuke
Makeda1 randomly lost Combo-Strike, Defender's Ward and traded Savagery for Quicken
Makeda2 lost Road to War and Leash
So now only Mak1/Morg1/Xerxis2 can buff speed
Spell slave can't cast upkeeps anymore so Marketh is now pretty costly for something of debatable use
Xerxis1 lost Inhospitable Ground for Rift
Mobility went up in cost which hurts Xerxis2's gameplay
Croak raiders got nerfed
Gators got nerfed
Bog Trog Ambushers got nerfed
Flank and Gang no longer work on Stationary/Knocked Down targets
Hakaar doesn't count as an Ancestral Guardian anymore so Zaal can't Direct Spirits to him
Zaal traded Invioable Resolve for a spell that makes models undead (hence no longer producing souls for him/his guardians)
There's tons more but its late at night and I can't quite remember it all.
>>48103448
Rather have 10/19 than 11/18.
>>48104505
You're mentioning bad things while completely ignoring the good side of the changes. People like you are perpetuating all kinds of dumb shit all over the internet because you can't perceive anything as a positive change. You said what the Krea's bubble lost, but completely ignored the fact that it's just straight up better at shielding infantry from the now prevalent 4" blast templates. And that it got bigger.
Also, Quicken is quite possibly better than Savagery + Defender's Ward. Before my Nihilators could walk 11", fluff their damage roll, and do nothing. Now they get to charge that 11" and basically guarantee enough damage on their first target to trigger Berserk at least once. The only issue is MAT but hey, she kept Carnage. And every faction lost straight DEF buffs and gained DEF against shooting and magic so really you're just being a huge babby over nothing. Go read the Agonizer's card and stop being a fag.
>>48104820
A: The Krea aura is nice but you have to consider that the Krea has to be able to keep up with your infantry while casting it's animus. He can only walk 6 or fail a charge at 9 and the tip of his animus will be at 12". Typically, Skorne infantry is going to be running 12" and spreading out. At the end you are going to be required to hold some stuff back and stuff it into a 3" bubble before letting the krea charge into that bubble and that could be hard if you're trying to force scenario pressure. That said, I actually am okay with the Krea change and like the idea of what it does. I do wish it was slightly bigger.
B: While I totally agree that Quicken is better than Savagery in most cases, it is not better than both Savagery and Def Ward. Def Ward is really good. It's more up to the Battlegroup wide Shield Guard ans whether that is actually better than Defenders Ward. I really don't know if it is. Makeda1's feat is still pretty terrible though.
>>48104913
Subjugation of Wills thematically has a point - its just missing a piece. With the buff to Stay Death, that rule should have migrated over to Makeda1. Access to both Stay Death and BG Shield Guard would enable Makeda1 to better support her feat.
But sadly that is not the case.
>>48104938
I think the secret to SoW is the warbeast packs.
They're cheap and pretty amazing shield guards with their new rules.
>>48104505
Infact I'm just gonna do this whole crock of shit.
>>Fury Management
>Condition on beasthandlers got nerfed so there is less fury management
Not unique to Skorne.
>Enrage no longer gives free charges and Skorne now has no access to free charges
Sure.
>Titans had their fury reduced
The Bronzeback's fury pool was already massive overkill, and the Sentry gained a point of MAT so it's less likely to miss in the first place. Every single Titan also got quite a bit cheaper.
>>Defensive stats
>Titans had their def reduced by 2
Sure but we gained a +2ARM bubble on a lesser.
>Cataphracts lost 3 boxes
Sure but we gained a +2ARM bubble on a lesser.
>>Animus
>Far Strike became self only
Sure.
>Fatewalker got worse
Sure.
>Krea bubble lost its Arm bonus
And gained a bunch of other shit.
>Skorne gained Spiny Growth but Spiny Growth became self only
So we never technically lost anything. It's not like the Razor Wurm's old animus was any better so this is actually a straight buff that you're crying over.
>Sentry lost Locker
And went from 9 to 15 points, a huge drop.
Cont.
>>48104955
The problem is their anti-ranged tech, not their melee tech.
>>48104947
I've been saying that since the leak. They are a very affordable option in list building.
>>48104505
To be honest, I think if they took back 1 nerf, it should be free charges from Enrage. A lot of the other stuff is fine but I think the free charges could make or break Skorne right now.
Other than that, my biggest gripe caster wise is X2 and Morghoul2. X2 feels really unnecessary. He was one of the only battle engine casters that worked and did what he was intended to do. Changing him felt really weird and I kinda hope they do something to rectify him, give him an extra point of Fury or something maybe. Hell, it's not like it effects his feat or his spells, he just needs to be able to camp something.
Morghoul2 just feels like a wash. Maybe I am wrong but he just isn't a good assassin and his control feat is not great. I don't know what he is intended to do. I feel like they should have just remade him from the ground up isn't the "hyper-assassin" he seemed like he was supposed to be and maybe given his feat to someone else like, say, Hexy1.
>>48104955
I finished the rest of this but fucked up my browser and lost it. Either way, you're mostly crying about shit that's either been sidegraded, became better, or isn't exclusive to Skorne. Sure we lost X, but we gained Y.
>>48104998
>Don't give a giant blind to the assassin with a spell called Flashing Blade
>Give it to the fucking vampire
>>48104947
Totally agree. I actually think Makeda1 has been really undervalued because of her changes. I honestly didn't like her that much in MK2.
It just a matter of how good Subjugation of Wills actually is. If it's as good as it seems like it should be with the Scarabs then I think she could do really well. There is always a chance it's just not as good as it seems because it's still requiring you to pay 10 or 20 points for 4 to 8 models that aren't really doing anything except taking up space when they're not eating gunfire.
I would love to see more people play her to see how it all works out honestly.
>>48105020
You say this like it doesn't make sense.
Also, in game, Morghouls feat doesn't do a whole ton for him as an assassin, as does most of his abilities except flashing blade. At beast it allows him to not need to boost to hit if he holds it till his assassination run (which would be a mistake). His biggest failing is simply his Fury 5. For a dude who is supposed to be an assassin, he has a hard time getting to the enemy and has very limited resources to carry out his assassination.
Morghoul2 feels like they tried to bolt assassin stuff to a control caster and then toned down the control casters abilities to compensate. I just wish he was one or the other.
Hexy1 with a blind feat would be, actually, probably broken as fuck. Simply because his new spell that lets him steal focus/fury coupled with not needing to boost to-hit rolls would make him a frightening assassination. As he is, his feat is really shitty. It just eats up the clock as you try and fail to make your enemies armies hit one another ineffectually. It's surprisingly hard for a lot of units to actually hit each other.
>>48105146
The biggest buff to Hexeris1 is the Razor Wurm gaining Long Leash on top of retaining Obliteration. Sure it LOOKS like Hexeris2 can kill more infantry, but def 13/14 infantry ain't gonna reliably get hit. Hexeris1 can upkeep Soul Slave on the Wurm and Death March on your Nihilators then slam dunk an Obliterate on a mass of infantry with a fury left over to boost damage on the solo.
>>48105255
Hexy1 was and still is one of my favourite skorne models, so i REEEEAAALLy hope this edition does him some justice
Is there any way to get the Troll battle box to work in the upcoming journeyman league?
>>48105617
Slag Troll is basically mandatory week2, but with Ragnor's STR buff and Rush it can rip two systems off an enemy heavy pretty reliably. That said you're always going to be at a disadvantage because hurpadoo 4lights, but it's vaguely playable.
Skorne, Cryx, Menoth or Khador???
Never played tabletop before and I want good looking heavy-hitters that aren't complete glass cannons... What faction would be the best in that case in Mk3?
>MKIII is coming and we will make sure that the game is balanced again!
>We took at the trollblood community's needs and decided to address them!
>We will remove the tough tax, the animus tax and the stone tax so your armies can be more diverse now and not suffer because of that!
>DESIGN SPACE!!!
>MKIII comes
>Ok, so now tough is no longer busted when you happen to be lucky, stone is slightly less useful and more awkward to include now that we shifted the point costs to promote beast heavy armies and your buffing animi suck now!
>But we decided to not make up for it by buffing your other units or lowering their point costs now, so suck it up, they are even worse now that you can't support them properly
You know what's gonna happen? Exactly the same thing that happened in MKII. Because most trollblood lists suck, people will only run the busted ones like Gunbjorn ranged supremacy maymay because running anything else means that you can't compete with other factions as they are simply stronger on a point for point basis. Then the lists will get errata'd into oblivion and trolls will become completely unplayable. Good job PP. Fuck.
>>48106430
always skorne. always.
unless you actually want to play something else because reasons.
>>48106647
>always skorne. always.
I'm absolutely ok with that, but why?
>>48106671
cryx is obnoxiously gay.
menoth is the spurned gay who shoots up a gayclub.
and khador totally has dirty times in airport men's bathrooms with senators, catches something and then goes home and kisses his kids on the mouth.
when i say cryx is gay. i do not mean your upstanding dude who just happens to be attracted to winky instead of cunt. i mean those faggots that the gay community, and the planet, as a whole sort of wishes would just shut the fuck up and die from the hiv already.
while skorne doesn't discriminate. they'll bang just about anyone. boys, girls, old people, the neighbours' pet hamsters. and that is disgusting. yet admirable.
but know this.
skorne always does the fucking. on top of you, you on top. doesn't matter.
its skorne fucking you.
always.
even when you are balls deep in any of skorne's hot lusty orifices, it is skorne using their hole/s to fuck you. and not the other way around.
they'll be on their knees gagging for breath, but you won't be able to pull away.
no matter how hard you spank their butts or step on their heads, they'll death grip you deep inside, and keep backing into you.
harder and harder.
but don't worry. even if skorne backs up into you with such vigour until you are standing on the edge of a cliff, their muscular control won't ever let you pull out and fall.oh, and just between you and meskorne swallowsalways
>for the salt
>>48104955
The new sentry is pretry excellent. I think the Krea animus got better for its intended role of infantry delivery.
However, the cataphracts are pound for pound a lot worse, especially in comparison to manowar. The agonizer already had a -2 damage debuff to warbeasts, and focus denial to warjacks which it didn't need to survive in order to deliver. I think it was a sidegrade.
The discounts are pretty good, especially for the Gladiator and sentry. I'm not really convinced they're better than the discounts and upgrades a lot of warjacks got however.
>>48107193
>The agonizer already had a -2 damage debuff to warbeasts
This basically meant nothing though. A punchy heavy could wipe out every infantry model it could reach without caring about the debuff. Now the -2STR bubble applies to anything and everything, which means you can send your Cetrati in to brawl with any generic infantry, which is a fight they ARE going to win handily. Cetrati can just sit tight and fuck niggers UP now. Then the Willbreaker comes and gives them tough because Vorkesh's untargetable ability has been buffed. Also that Agonizer animus holy shit the possible plays.
>and focus denial to warjacks which it didn't need to survive in order to deliver
No one used warjacks in the first place so this is a moot point.
>>48107036
O-ok, t-thanks!
>>48104046
+def on a def 10 chassis isn't shit.
>>48104241
It's not +2 arm, it's -2 str to enemies. That means it does exactly fuckall against shooting, which is what I directly said is skorne's problem in mk3. Being durable in melee doesn't mean shit when you're being shot off the table.
>>48104955
Titans did not get significantly cheaper. They got the same point discount almost every single fucking beast and jack got in the game.
95 fucking percent of heavies follow the formula Mk2cost*2 -2. When almost everything uses that formula then titans didn't get "a good bit cheaper", their cost is identical in comparison with everything else. The sentry is the only exception, it's -3 instead of -2. Which isn't a huge drop, and most factions got a heavy with a similar decrease.
People need to stop perpetuating the myth of mk3 point decreases. Especially since you have fewer points overall in mk3 than you did in mk2. A mk3 list is around 103 points, a mk2 list is 56 points. That means your list is 4.5 mk2 points less than before.
