https://www.mediafire.com/folder/vx477quhxz4vt/Regend5Ling#btf4cvsidtj6ff
Honorable seppuku edition. Have you ever failed so hard in a game that your lord had to order your death?
>implying I've ever played L5R
>>48043163
>Have you ever failed so hard in a game that your lord had to order your death?
I had a PC try for the spear
Not only did he fail, lost his right arm, and ended up releasing Kinjiru, but he was so tainted by the experience that his only out was seppuku.
>>48043230
Seems like that would be the usual result of such efforts.
>>48043163
>Have you ever failed so hard in a game that your lord had to order your death?
Kinda. The character didn't fail his lord per see, just called him out on his bullshit and subtly but sternly warned him to stop. The lord got mad, ordered my character to cut up himself, and after a moment of weighing the situation, my character stepped to his lord and chopped his head off with a single strike.
The lord was warned. Don't fuck with a Honor 9.0 character.
>>48043391
What was the bullshit he called him out on? What happened after? Who gets to replace said lord and what happened to the verry onorabu gai?
>>48043391
9/10 would uphold the bushido code with
>>48043163
>Have you ever failed so hard in a game that your lord had to order your death?
Kinda. I had a GM who had a complete hard-on for Scorpions and thought Honor made you nothing more than a mark. When I created a Lion bushi in his game, he had my daimyo give me a direct order to seppuku 5 minutes into the first session, because "the daimyo was having an argument with another daimyo about whose retainers were more loyal."
According to the GM, my failure was deciding to create a character who cared enough about honor to follow such a "blatantly ridiculous order" in the first place.
>>48043504
Sounds like the GM needed to eat a wakizashi.
>>48043391
Story time. Now!
>>48043504
The funny part is that Scorpion off themselves in a heartbeat if ordered to do so. The only real difference between them and other clans in that regard is that they're more willing to dishonor themselves in the process if it's necessary.
Scorpion generals have purposefully and knowingly lost wars and committed seppuku because their lords felt it was necessary for their just as keikaku plans.
>>48043644
Sorry anon for the bad ST.
>>48043687
Sorry you had such a terrible GM, Anon
>>48043391
>Heinous crime -20
>Breach of etiquette -20
>Disloyalty to a Lord -18
>Disobeying a Lord's command -10
Now people will know not to fuck with an Honor 3.2 character.
>>48043807
>>48043807
Following orders despite personal misgivings is also an honour loss at rank 9, though. And, depending on what the lord's actual plans were, going along could easily have counted as being duped into performing a criminal or disloyal act.
Really, what he should have done was prounounce scathing death poem and then made his seppukku in public in explicit protest of the lord's new direction.
>>48043987
This.
>>48043987
It was at this point in the thread this game began to sound gay as fuck.
>>48044069
Death and honor are big parts of the game, and sometimes they can't be separated.
L5R is not the game for people who desperately want to avoid character death.
In a fight, you can die in less than three rounds. In an argument, you can die in less than three sentences.
The legal system has several varieties of death sentences and big gaping loopholes that make framing people easy.
The feudal system allows those higher up to demand the deaths of those lower than them.
The culture has suicide as a standard way to cleanse tainted honor.
If you really can't stand your character dying, play something else.
>>48044197
It is worth noting, however, that actually getting to honor 9 is not super typical.
A big theme of l5r is that is very easy for Bushido to dictate two mutually exclusive things in a given situation, and the more honorable you are, the more those kinds of problems you'll face. If you aren't every so often losing a little bit of honor for one action in order to avoid losing more for something else, that's atypical.
>>48044197
>play something else
Or someONE else. There are character varieties that are less affected by this (ninja, ronin).
>>48044265
As a GM, thats something I've had some problems with, because as a Player, I got very good at justifying a lot of situations in order to avoid honor loss.
Example - in my campaign right now, most everyone is honor 2 or less, with one Honor 3 Lion who took idealistic so he could have a more sun tzu attitude on war, and an honor 5 daidoji.
The Honor 5 Daidoji is the problem, because he doesn't lose any honor for anything.
>trusted retainer to the Okita daimyo, who desperately wants to help the Shima reclaim their lands - but can't due to the Emperors commands that no clans may war with each other
>Daidoji goes ronin in order to be his lords instrument in helping the Shima, and not exactly disobey the Emperor
>therefore, the honor loss is negated because he is being loyal to his lords heart, even if she cant be loyal to her alliances in reality
>party is planning a partisan rebellion against a family of scheming backstabbing yasuki retainers
>this will include lots of guerrilla warfare
>daidoji justifies this by "these guys are honorless scum anyway, they don't deserve any respect in how we fight them"
I think I'm probably gonna ding him a bit on that last example - but it suits this character better to be something none of the other players can be: a trusted emissary. He can be sent to all the other factions the player party are hoping to court, considering an Honor 5 character is very well received.
Problem with that, the player isn't very good at RPing and has an aversion to talking in character.
>>48044431
You should ding him on that last example if "those guys" are fellow Rokugani.
If they're shadowlands or gaijin, then there's no honor loss (Or gain) in guerrillaing all over them.
>>48044553
Well, truth is, "those guys" are just a yasuki vassal family that use money and politics to make up for military shortcomings.
They put together a strong three family alliance, used that to bring false testimony against the Shima family and dishonored them, and then played upon that shame to conquer their province, using "adopted" scorpion troops, and scorpion sabotage - considering this is in the wake of the coup, the fact that an entire scorpion vassal family was adopted into them as a way to escape being exiled, it can be seen as against the law\emperors pronouncements
Its no different then what the Crane and Scorpion do all the time.
>>48044651
They're Rokugani, ding his honor.
>>48044695
Considering aspects of this guerrilla war is going to be...
>rousing peasant rebellions
>accosting tax collectors
>killing magistrates
>taking rice and tax shipments
>attacking military patrols
>striking at trade routes
>pirating trade vessels
>fomenting rebellion in castle\fort towns
>accosting castle\fort garrisons in the streets\in the night\in sake houses\in geisha houses
I can point this out to the Daidoji that all of this is dishonorable as fuck
>>48044784
It is dishonorable, but the Daidoji as a family sacrifice their honor for the greater good. That's always been their thing. See the Harriers too.
>>48044843
Or the Scorpion as a clan.
>>48044864
They don't see it as much of a sacrifice culturally. They do it for the clan therefore what's the loss? I mean aside from the odd one who manages to acquire a normal sense of honor somehow.
>>48044843
True enough I suppose - its kinda how the Daidoji fight.
Difference is, and heres the kicker, this player is trying to maintain his honor only because of school technique, and the fact his wound ranks are configured by his honor, not his earth. So therefore, for a purely gamplay benefit, he wants to keep his high intact for his wound ranks.
So really, he can't do the harrier style shit, nor even the uji style guerrilla war, because his honor wont allow it. I let him get away with going ronin, because it fits my campaign plan, and its justifiable from a certain perspective - and while I didn't ding him honor for it, his family was furious, and demanded every piece of outfit, including all his weapons and armor, even his clothes, before telling him to get his dumb ronin ass the fuck out and never come back
>>48044922
No, they do it for the Emperor and Rokugan, as a clan if not individually.
>>48044939
Doesn't the Iron Warrior tech add to wound rank rather than replace the formula entirely? Still useful, he however should have been a Daidoji Scout if he wanted to go full guerilla. Since the Iron Warriors are basically their standard heavy infantry
>>48044939
What? Is this 4e? Because if it is it shouldn't matter if he has Honor 5 or Honor 0; he'll still get the same bonus. It only matters if he has Honor 6+
>>48043411
>>48043671
It wasn't very interesting, the lord was an average dude who was corrupted by wealth and power. He abandoned Honor, and brought great shame on his peers and retainers alike. My character, being high-Honor and all that, used the Zeroth Law Rebellion card to save the lord from himself. He gave him a chance to apologize and change his ways, but it did not work.
After the kill the lord's son took his place, and he ruled much more wisely than his father. The other samurai in the court just went with the flow because they were scared shitless.
My character pretty much continued his life like nothing happened. He mourned his lord, but as a truly honorable samurai, he felt zero regret. He got a few ranks of Infamy though.
>>48045002
>>48045018
Its 1st Ed
>At the first Rank, the Daidoji bushi uses his Honor Rank, rather than his Earth Ring, to figure his wound level. Round all fractions down.
As for the intentions of the character, he didn't set out to be a guerrilla, thats just the present situation. His character originally set out to be a dutiful samurai, in the hopes of becoming his lords most trusted retainer, thereby leading his family to glory through honorable action. The definition of a low ambition honorable samurai
>>48045091
Oh boy is he fucked.
>>48045112
Hes got options, but they really are the hard mode of choices.
>delivering declarations of war
>acting as an emissary
>informing armies of imminent attack
>dueling magistrates\metsuke
>acting as a metsuke against notable enemies
>acting as emissary to other political factions
>>48045091
CHANGE THE DAMN TECH.
If you've put the PCs in a situation where they're inherently screwed by RAW through no fault of their own, then you owe it to them to change things up; either change the situation or change the RAW.
If the PCs *choose* to do things that screw their characters knowing they're screwed (and do it anyway), then no, don't pull punches. But deliberately putting a Wound Ranks = Honor Rank PC in a situation where their Honor MUST drop like a rock is no different than the dick Scorpion-loving storyteller above killing off the Lion just for being a Lion. You're still choosing to kill off the PC (this one is just going to take longer).
Give the player the option to play it as the 4e version technique; that way it's his choice. If he wants to go down the Honor Loss = Wound Rank loss death spiral, then it's HIS choice.
Players think they have more power over the game than they do, and largely they need to get over their attitude of "I deserve <thing>!". But this - specifically - is one time where the GM having the power needs to be very carefully used. You should never put a PC into an outright, literal, no-win (Choose A, you die; Choose B, you die more slowly) scenario
>>48045607
I don't know. Normally yes, but this isn't a situation he forced the PC to go into and part of L5R is dealing with the consequences of your choices within their insanely harsh and contradictory moral code. He is making his bed, let him lie in it.
>>48043987
>>Really, what he should have done was prounounce scathing death poem and then made his seppukku in public in explicit protest of the lord's new direction
This would have been gloriously honorable and people would've written poems about the character after the fact.
>>48044431
>>therefore, the honor loss is negated because he is being loyal to his lords heart, even if she cant be loyal to her alliances in reality
pffffffffAHAHAHA! Bullshit! Istantaneous honor loss!
>>48043807
Arguably, the execution could be considered as protecting the honor of the clan. Think what would happen if a lord fled from battle like a coward. NOBODY would give a shit if his own bodyguard killed him.
>>48043504
your GM was shit
>>48049531
Well obviously. Scorpion fanboy, remember?
>>48046738
My big issue with L5R is that while the rules suggest this playstyle, the fiction has characters doing shit that will an entire Sudoku book.
>>48049379
That might be an honour gain, but there's no lying to Bushido. Killing your lord is going to ding.
>>48049715
I think it helps to realise that not everyone is intensely burdened with the idealistic disadvantage. They know honour can be regained, or that sacrificing their own honour can put their clan in a better position.
>>48049715
>>48049754
It also helps to realize that Honor (the score) is supposed to constantly and wildly fluctuate over the course of a session, let alone a campaign.
>>48051151
>constantly and wildly fluctuate
Eh. Not really, unless you're taking actions uncharacteristic for your honour rank. Also, not uncommon for groups to tally honour changes to take effect at the end of a session.
Is there a character creator program for 4th edition? A friend of mine really wants me to run a game, but I feel like creating a ton of NPCs fully statted out by hand will be a pain.
>>48052266
Try L5RCM.
>>48045607
I'm not changing anything. The player wants a high honor purely for gameplay\munchkin reasons, and the campaign is going into a direction that makes that difficult to maintain. Its up to him to decide how to square his choices with circumstances, and I've been helping him - specifically by giving him choices on how to maintain his honor within these circumstances.
>>48046738
I know what I'm doing, thank you
>>48047345
He got his punishment for going ronin - as far as he was concerned, by going ronin he was being true and faithful to his lords wishes, and upholding what he feels was right in his sense of justice - a crime was committed through the dishonor of others, and the proclamation of the emperor was allowing that crime to go unpunished.
Look up the story of the 47 Ronin as an example of what I'm talking about
>>48052266
>fully statted out
So just don't do this. There's no real reason to, at all.
>>48052398
>I know what I'm doing, thank you
Was that sarcasm or not? I don't know if I should be offended for pontificating or whatever
>>48053026
The post that was in reply to, assuming its yours, was basically "hes fucking up, just let him fuck up" (He is making his bed, let him lie in it.)
Therefore, in reply, I know what I'm doing. This isnt my first rodeo.
>>48053094
That's what I figured. I was mostly arguing with the other anon. Sorry if that sounded belittling. Not attempting to incite any duels here
>>48053185
My original point is that I tend to be soft on Honor Loss, because I, as a GM, can rationalize the reasons for the actions, and I can see why the honor wouldn't go down. This is because I've played this game for 8+ years, and I've made questionable decisions as a player. I've got somewhat adept at coming up with explanations to keep honor intact.
Plus, my player party is very new to this game, so I'm trying to be somewhat forgiving. By not penalizing his honor, but penalizing him in other ways, I'm not straight fucking the player, like this >>48045607 thinks I'm doing.
>>48053278
That is a very reasonable stance all tings told. Are you sure you're playing 1e? The 90s were strong with that one.
>>48053320
Yeah, I'm running 1st Ed. the rules are simpler, less complicated, and easier for new players to pick up. Its not exactly balanced, but I have a number of houserules that fix those issues.
Specifically, I have no issue with 4th Edition, in fact I like it a lot - but I'm also running my campaign during the Coup and Clan War, and 1st Edition represents that era better. I'll probably make the edition jump if FFG comes out with something that I like.
I'm also an old fogey whose set in his ways, and I personally like 1st Edition the best.
>>48053381
Cheers, fellow 1E fan. I too prefer the pre-Coup to Coup era the best. Mind sharing some of your houserules?
>>48053381
I read 1e a while ago, years after I started my first 4e game, and I don't even know how to feel about it. There's some weird archaic bits to it that even other games of that era don't have, but you can also see the skeleton that later editions are built on really clearly.
>>48053426
Sure.
I have...well, a fuckin ton of things, not all of which I use.
The first thing I did was marginalize the kakita dueling school almost completely and I rarely allow people to play them. In its place, I wrote up an entirely new school, the Doji Bushi School
>Attribute Bonus +1 Agility
>Honor: 3.5
>Skills: Kenjutsu - Kyujutsu - Meditation - Sincerity - Ettiquette - Any 1 Bugei Skill - Any 1 High Skill
>Outfit: Same as RAW Kakita Bushi
>Rank 1 - Way Of The Crane (All TN raises now raise by 3 instead of by 5)
>Rank 2 - Strike From The Soul (During Attack Rolls, any dice that roll lower than Void Ring, you may ReRoll them, accepting new roll, even if it is lower)
>Rank 3 - One Soul, One Blade (One additional action per combat turn, for the purpose of attacks, parries, or movement.)
>Rank 4 - Souls Grace (Attack and Damage rolls are not affected by Wound Penalties)
>Rank 5 - One Truth (Raises are now not limited by Void - Void points spent on Attack & Damage rolls grant 2 extra dice per void point.)
After that, I completely overhauled the Iaijutsu Dueling rules, so that Void isn't the only thing thats important. I based the system somewhat off how the CCG used to do duels, and I'm not fully convinced it works well. Its a long document, so I can post that next if you'd like.
I undertook a project to overhaul the combat system completely, and heres some of what I did...
>everyone now starts with two actions per turn, for attacks, parries, and movement
>parries are Agilty+KenjutsuK1 added to TN
>you can pass on an init roll to add extra dice to defense attempts
>a successful parry will give you the ability to act immediately. a successful attack allows you to attack again
And I wrote up Swordstyles. The goal of this was to give more options in combat in the form of maneuvers, and to give some difference between non-bushi characters and regular swordsman (like ronin). Ill explain that more if your curious
>>48052459
You are more than likely correct. However I just like to have them statted. Just in case.
I know that I can just say they have are rolling x keeping y, and that they could just deal with whatever I throw at them. But I just really am a fan of having a real character sheet in front of me.
>>48053573
I actually am curious. To be honest, I never really did much around with duels, since I preferred dealing with the "demons and shit" part of L5R better than the politicking (chalk it up to terrible Scorpion fan GMs as a player)
Post away!
>>48053609
Heres my Iaijutsu rules...
- L5R Iaijutsu Dueling -
Step 1 -
Each opponent may choose to roll Awareness + Iaijutsu, TN 15, to
determine His opponents skill, void, void points, etc
He may only determine one thing, at TN 15, and additional
information with raises
Step 2 -
The opponent who rolled highest in the previous roll chooses
who calls focus or strike first.
Focusing -
An opponent may only focus a number of times equal to their
Void. Each time the opponent chooses to focus,
- The TN to hit his opponent raises by 5 (from 5)
- He rolls a single D10, and records the number (Focus Dice)
Note: The TN is shared - as the Duel Begins, it starts at 5
Each time a Focus is called, that TN raises by 5.
Each time a Focus is called, the duelist who is focusing
must succeed a Void roll with a TN equal to the current
TN. Failure means he has lost his composure, and a
strike is immediately called.
Each time a focus is called, add up the current amount
on the Focus Dice - these Dice are not to be shown
(exception: GM)
Once an opponent has run out of Focus, he must call Strike
A single void point may be spent to grant an additional Focus.
Step 3 -
Once an opponent calls Strike, either volountarily or because
he is out of Focus, the totals of rolled Focus Dice are revealed.
The duelist with the highest total of his showing focus dice
gets to strike first, at the current TN set by the amount of
focus actions in the duel.
Each Focus in the duel provides a bonus of +1k0 to Damage
Just finished the second session of a Crab Campaign, wherein the party realized their Aunt's backwater port is not a high class place. They engaged in a tournament during the Kanto Festival that saw them fighting to stay on top of a hill of rocks, and then had to compose poetry while they were pelted with rocks. Surprisingly the Yasuki Courtier won due to being an angry fuck who managed to dodge being pelted with stones.
He won a big green snail. He's start to get that he really doesn't like the sticks and would be better off in the big city.
They also get ambushed by some insomniac Serpents of Sanada, one of which slashed the Kaiu girl in the face and caused her to flee at the cost of her honor. With no back-up, and their nicest aunt at knife-point, Shinsaku the Courtier butchered two people; gutting one with his wakiazashi and then impaling one between the eyes at a long range. The Kuni girl brought out the Katana of Fire and eviscerated a pirate.
Kuni Girl and Shin hung out with Hu and they believe him not to have murdered a Daidoji Kuge for his swords, because why else would one go ronin? Kuni Girl actually suspects he may be an ex-Harrier on the run for use of gaijin pepper and teppos.
Everyone met back up at the Aunt's manor and the locals are viewing Shinsaku and the Kuni as heroes and the Kaiu got false credit as well. The Kuni Girl talked to her Aunt about what some fire kami said during the Kanto Festival about how some child is angry at the four Aunts and how the fire kami were promised a night parade.
For a more light-hearted romp than previous campaigns, it is shaping up. Party is expanding into taking some more martial skills because "I am a Crab" has become their mantra for surviving brutal bullshit.Considering we're essentially running the first part of Rise of the Runelords but in Rokugan, it is going very smoothly as far as story beats are concerned.
>>48043163
Yup.
He opted out of it and became a ronin though, legitimately cutting ties with his old life rather then kill himself to erase his lord's shame. He decided his lord's honor wasn't worth his life and neither was his own, so he just up and vanished one night rather then outright refuse.
He definitely made up for it on a personal level over time but his old lord never forgive him and he had some nasty blood feuds with members of his old social group and was forced to kill at least two of them.
>>48052347
Thanks friend.
>>48052266
This will save you much time and effort. That being said, you don't need a ton of NPCs. Enemies of the Empire provides you with some basic Ronin of all spades that can work as anything if you just toss them a technique or so.
>>48053609
As for Swordstyles, they work like this...
A swordstyle is three things - a principle (basically they work like a school technique), a curriculum (usually three skills you get a free rank in), and a number of maneuvers (from 8 to 12).
When you get a swordstyle, for free as part of a bushi school, or bought at character generation with CP's, you get a free rank in all the curriculum skills, the principle ability, and usually 2 maneuvers. Learning maneuvers costs exp or CP.
Heres a pastbin of an example of a non-school swordstyle (particularly a scorpion one)
http://pastebin.com/ips0xens
>>48053627
I'm confused.
Shouldn't you just call strike if you win the assessment? A TN 5 to hit? Can you give me an example case?
>>48053709
Because of the way Duels work, if you call strike, your calling THE other person to strike. So normally, by RAW, iaijutsu in 1st edition basically becomes "focus until you cant anymore" which makes void the most important stat - he who has the highest void will likely win.
In my system, an iaijutsu duel is now two things - your ability to pass composure tests, and your focus dice. focus dice become a game of poker, because your might have rolled a 9 on your first focus dice, but your opponent might have rolled an exploding ten. focus dice determine who strikes first - the higher strikes first in this case.
So it becomes a game of "how long can I focus and build up a high focus total, vs how long can I go before i fail a compsure roll" - plus, with the TN going up per each persons focus, it can run the risk of being unhittable for people with shit agility and iaijutsu
However, it is luck of the draw, but you can control it somewhat. If your focus dice keep coming up shit, you can just keep raising the TN if you think you can keep hitting composure rolls, so that the other guy is fucked trying to hit you. This is where the 2nd rank Kakita technique really shines
>>48053660
So why was a green snail a prize?
>>48053778
The problem with the poker analogy is that there is no bluff. Failing a composure roll just makes you strike, which is awful for the person who went second because they're either tied or behind one die. It seems to be really heavily favored for the winner of the awareness roll. If they roll a 9 or 10 they just call strike and whomp the other guy, and if not, assuming void is even, they're still at a huge statistical advantage.
If I would make a change, make it so losing composure is merely a failure of that focus roll, but still counts against your totals. But either way it's just an exercise in statistical probability than anything else. Still, it seems better than even the 4e rules right now.
>>48053816
Well there was a coin purse alongside it too, but it mostly has to do with one of their Aunts being a Shugenja who runs a temple for Suitengu and Isora who specializes in making lesser nemuranai. But that Aunt is currently protesting the tournaments because her siblings have stopped caring about the more important religious tenants of the Kanto Festival.
So rather than getting a cool magical shell, Shin got a big green snail. If he has a problem with it, he can take it up with the "not fun" Aunt Mineko.
It is sort of a petty issue going on within the family at large. None of their Aunts are married. Aunt Hama loves scary stories and intimidating her potential suitors too much, Aunt Yukari resents men due to her father not letting her serve as a samurai-ko and a scandal when she sought out training with a Kobo-Ichi Kai fighter, and Aunt Shizu got humiliated while trying to court a Mantis man. Aunt Mineko, the youngest and least batshit of them is sort of the odd-man out because she rather enjoys her life at the moment and while she would like a husband is perfectly content where she is.She's probably also being courted by the Severed Hand ex-Scout named Hiruma Wanimoto who the party believes may have hired the wako to stage a coup on the other three aunts.Which isn't the case at all. Hama, Yukari, and Shizu are just really shitty at their jobs and Wanimoto is trying to make them realize that they need to have better defenses. He didn't hire any wako and he's disgusted that this is how his point was proven.
So the snail is just a petty way for the Aunts to have other people voice their distaste for one another by making their lives a little bit harder.
>>48053923
I wish I had your gift for antics. My usual games are usually character heavy mysteries (so usually magistrates) but I'm having them plan a festival on behalf of a local governor now and find it is hard to make it fun, give freedom but not go full sandbox (which I respect people who can do that but I have historically found I am shit at it), and keep things moving at any sort of pace.
I try to push my limits as a GM but inevitably seem to really suck when I do so.
I played a couple of L5R games with people from /tg/ on IRC back in the day
fun times, even if the campaigns were disasters
>>48053863
Eh, I happen to feel that 4th Editions Iaijutsu rules are terrible. It reduces a rather scary multiple round endurance trial into a single contested roll.
While I agree that my iaijutsu rules may not entirely be perfect, they seem to work well. The poker analogy comes from the fact that a good focus dice roll doesn't always mean its best to call a strike immediately, but I've had PC's kill on the first turn, and die on the first turn, due to a gamble that didn't pay off (either for the NPC or the PC). Most duels go for three rounds, and tend to fail when the TN hits a 20 or a 25. Thats usually 3 focus dice per duelist, and theres a possibility that at least some of those are high numbers, and or tens.
This is based on how the CCG did dueling - when a duel occured, cards with a focus value were placed face down. You didnt know what the focus value of each card was - it could be high numbers, it be trash numbers, it could be cards with effects designed to manipulate the duel. The only thing you knew was how many cards the other guy was putting down, which meant, if you wanted to win, you should keep focusing. All kinds of clever strategies come out of this, like initiating a duel using a personality card that you dont care about, and throwing down shit focus cards, just to get your opponent to dump cards out of his hand to try and save whoever is being dueled - particularly useful before a battle, when he probably just dumped cards out of his hand that might have been battle action\terrain cards, etc.
Failing a composure is rather huge because it robs you of a focus dice, and ends the duel, so each time it comes around to a "focus or strike" you have to ask yourself "can I make this composure roll? can I hit the new TN? can I make do with the numbers I already have?"
As such, Players in my campaign tend to treat Iaijutsu duels with a fair degree of apprehension, and don't ever enter them lightly.
>>48055077
>Eh, I happen to feel that 4th Editions Iaijutsu rules are terrible. It reduces a rather scary multiple round endurance trial into a single contested roll.
That's sort of the thing. There's not really any decision making to be had in any duel system I've seen. Yours can be boiled down to a single roll and some probability math. So they're all terrible to me.
>>48055077
I know how CCG dueling works, but I'm telling you, as a powergamer, your system boils down to the starting roll. If you win, you have a massive statistical advantage. If you roll well on your first focus (lets say a 7) and then strike on your next round, you have a 60% chance to first strike (win), a 10% chance to kharmic (tie), and a 30% chance to lose.
Those odds are INCREDIBLY good because they only go down on average the more you focus (assuming the competitors have even stats).
The meta for your game is thus:
1) Win the awareness roll at any cost
2) If you roll well on your first focus, strike.
3) If you don't roll well, you're forced to continue focusing.
4) If you go second you don't have any choice but to focus. Your goal here is to make the TN too high for anyone to get hit, and then go to a normal skirmish.
>>48055133
I've never had players in my game group that have approached it from a purely numbers point of view. Most everyone looks at it from a perspective of...
>oh shit, if i fuck this up, im gonna die
or
>high focus roll right? well fuck, ill just roll a ten, and if i dont roll a ten, ill just nudge the dice until it is a ten
I think this is the best I've come up with, but really, I'm open to better suggestions
I've considered a few changes
>removing focus dice, and just using RAW with the ability to spend void points for additional focus actions
>using RAW plus above, and using composure rolls to stop focusing going stupid high
>using my system, but giving each side their own TN instead of a shared TN
>using RAW but with a shared TN
>>48055186
Actually there's one thing I do really like about your system. It's not unreasonable for the duel to go past the first strike, giving clans that don't focus on a assess/focus/strike part of the duel more presence.
Like I said, your system is better than 4e RAW, at least in my opinion, but it still needs work. That said, I don't have any ideas myself, which sucks because I hate to criticize your work without adding something constructive. Makes me feel like a dick.
The only idea I have is a "build your strike" style, perhaps. During the focus you secretly choose 1 of 4 options.
Options are
- Moment: Increases your strike priority (highest priority strikes first)
- Nimbleness: Increases your Armor TN
- Swiftness: Increases your Strike Roll
- Understanding: Look at your opponent's choices so far (Awareness)
The rolls would be public, so you know how many dice your opponent is rolling. Your goal is to try and figure out how they're building their strike and try and counter it. There's even an RPS element. Prio/Attack > Attack/Defense. Attack/Defense > Prio/Defense. Prio/Defense > Prio/Attack. Sorta.
Eh, no it sucks. I'm just posting this now because it might help someone figure something better out.
>>48055313
Hmmm....
Thats some interesting stuff there, and I think I'm gonna put that in my toolbox.
Ultimately, I pitch Iaijutsu duels as this:
Ultimately, you want an Iaijutsu duel vs a skirmish. Why? Because an iaijutsu duel deprives both sides of their toys - no one gets school techniques (save like two schools that focus on iaijutsu), and it comes down to pure attributes and skills. Both in the setting and out, I explain that duels are designed to be an equalizer, which is why its preferred for settling disputes.
Problem is, duels aren't an equalizer, its just a way for someone with higher void to win all the time. My system even has a problem with that, but it gives options for how to handle things - in my opinion, its weakest link is that it relies on random roll of focus dice.
With your suggestion, when a focus comes up, the communal TN raises, and you have options on how your preparing yourself for the outcome. Whether by going first, at the cost of accuracy (and maybe even making yourself easier to hit), making yourself harder to hit (but likely going second), making it easier for you to land a strike (but, like above, probably making yourself easier to hit).
So if you want to strike first, your TN to be hit dumps to like 5 or something, and your opponents want to not be hit, he chooses to bump his TN up, by half or a double. You go first but miss, and now your opponent is going to cut you in half.
The 4th option, of seeing what the other person is doing, is essential so you know whether hes going for a priority strike - because if you do without knowing, it comes down to a possible kharmic strike with both parties at a TN of 5.
Or, heres a thought - with each of the options, as the duel progresses, the longer you've locked yourself in to that choice, the better benefit or return you get from it. So there is a benefit to choosing your "stance" early and sticking with it, vs shifting your stance to something else
(cont)
>>48055453
So, as the duel begins, duelist one assumes a priority strike stance, and duelist 2 chooses to watch and assess his opponent - second focus comes up, duelist 1 stays with priority strike, and duelist 2 switches into the TN boost stance. as focus 3 comes up, duelist 1 decides to switch to TN boost, and seeing a stance switch, duelist 2 switches to priority strike.
duelist one gains a TN bonus, but now is going to be striking second, or with a penalty to whatever determines strike order - while duelist two is going to get to strike first, or a bonus to strike order, at the cost of his TN which just dumped to five, while duelist 1 has his TN go back to normal with a bump
>>48055494
>>48055453
I apparently can't type worth a shit tonight
I meant what I said as an alternative to yours. I don't know if they'll mix quite right without it getting too complicated. But whatever you think is good for your game is good for your game.
My lord was about to fail his province so hard I committed seppuku on my own.
GM didn't think I'd actually go through with it. He thought Id dishonor myself and my warriors by disobeying orders.
He hates paladins too, which explained a lot when I found out.
>>48055313
Refined...
Assessment: Mostly same as RAW. Replace the +1k1 bonus for beating your opponent's roll with "gain one peek". Then gain one peek regardless. A peek can be used before any focus roll to reveal any one aspect.
Focus: Each player secretly chooses an aspect. Attack (Awareness), defense (Reflexes), speed (Void). Each player rolls Iaijutsu/trait, and adds 1 to that aspect for reach raised called on that roll. The TN starts at 0 and increases by 5 each round. Either player may move into the Strike instead of Focusing. If both players fail a Focus in a single round, move to the Strike.
Strike: Each player reveals their aspects. The highest speed strikes first (or Kharmic in case of a tie). Attack must match or beat defense for a successful strike. Duels that fail to draw blood continue to a skirmish as normal.
>>48052398
For anyone arguing with this, don't forget the Japanese proverb "Seven times down, Eight times up"
There is nothing wrong with going ronin, in actual Japan many samurai believed that a samurai who had never been a ronin could not be trusted. Lords often forced their retainers to become ronin as a test, to see if their loyalty remained true even in exile.
>>48055853
Rokugan isn't Japan.
>>48055853
>Lords often forced their retainers to become ronin as a test, to see if their loyalty remained true even in exile.
There is so much lore to l5r, I'm rarely surprised when anyone forgets some. I'd suggest reading Way of the Wolf. Or, y'know, just continuing as you were.
>>48056013
I was trying to think of the name of that. What was it again? Warrior's journey or something?
>>48056029
Musha Shugyo, the warrior pilgrimage
>>48056029
Musha shugyou, which translates to roughly that, yeah.
>>48056033
>>48056037
Thanks, bros.
>>48056049
Despite it being something you can do in rokugan, the description even says that you get treated like shit regardless. By RAW, clans are jealously protective of their martial techniques, so doing a musha shugyo will just get you a lot of doors slammed in your face, assuming some arrogant school senpai doesn't decide to make an example of you.
You have to have a lenient GM whose ok with nothing having clan sensei's acting like assholes
>>48056072
>nothing
Not, i mean
Please see this post >>48055532
>>48043163
Quick go watch bushido: samurai saga 1963
>>48056072
>By RAW, clans are jealously protective of their martial techniques, so doing a musha shugyo will just get you a lot of doors slammed in your face
That's assuming the secrets of clan techniques can be learnt simply by having them used against you - short of kenku swordmasters, that's simply not true, and musha shugyo is not an exercise in futility.
I always pictured the true secrets as similar to the karate kid training or shigurui in terms of exercising and strengthening particular parts of the body, but more esoteric, anyway. Makes more sense, even if the setting leaves it up to the group.
Do the burning sands and the rokugan share any monsters? They are kinda close to each other.
>>48056072
It depends on how you run it, I think - if you do a bunch of really good deeds and learn a lot on your travels, I suspect even the pettiest of sensei would accept you back simply because you've proven that you can made the Shugyo worthwhile and grew from it, being a good asset to the clan.
It could also make a good story element for someone coming back from Musha Shugyo, having to prove themselves to a sensei of the clan in order to be reinducted into the school.
This may just be how I'd run it, but in order to be accepted for Musha Shugyo there must either be a real imbalance in the person (i.e. stereotypical Crane snob with a lethal dosage of arrogance) which requires them to learn about the world, a veteran of the clan who is trusted enough to be left on their own, being so far down the inheritance line that the loss wouldn't be devastating to the clan/family (like the 4th or 5th son), or a family history wherein another member of your immediately family went on a Musha Shugyo and was better for it (and even then, it'd be a maybe). It'd still not be the norm by any means, however.
>>48055983
Shut the fuck up. 1) That's not how that phrase is intended. 2) Musha Shugyo is a thing.
>>48056654
Musha Shugyou was entirely different, it needed your lord's permission and the nod from your sensei.
>>48056029
In any case, I brought up WotW because it talks about becoming ronin in greater depth than just that one reason/way.
>>48056654
It kinda is, though.
In Rokugan, ronin are reviled as little better than bandits. Even the Dragon's view is summed up as 'when I see a dead ronin, I'll mourn, but not before'.
What's your favorite school tg?
I really like Taoist Swordsman personally, being able to deal 10k10 DR sounds like a lot of fun haven't gotten there yet though. I also like the the idea of being a bushi who searches for enlightenment through the perfection of swordsmanship.
I would post a picture of one, but there ain't any.
>>48057479
>there ain't any
There's plenty of Dragon monastic samurai with one blade in hand.
>>48057479
Spider Monk. Yes, I know it's a Spider School but I have a thing for sohei.
>>48057729
Try that again ...
>>48057741
Mah nigga
>>48057741
I like the dark paragon techniques, myself.
>>48055077I like the 4e rules.
>>48056329
Naga/Nagah and Wyrms that the Yobanjin who inhabit the nearest parts of the Sand. As for legit monsters beyond that, not quite sure.
If you marry out of clan, would you need to take Multiple or Different school to keep training in your existing one, or is it assumed that your oaths and promises to not share which you'd have made going to a new clan anyway will hold enough to let your school remain open to you? I mean people from totally different clans can train in the schools with promises not to share and favors exchanged. You started there.
>>48057479
>What's your favorite school tg?
Flavor wise, I love the Daidoji Bodyguard\Iron Cranes. I've got a serious hard for heavy armored spear infantry, and I've always been a crane fanboy anyway.
Mechanics and flavor wise, the Hida Bushi School is just pure fun.
Favorite 1st Edition school, toss up between the Wasp Bushi School and Shinjo Bushi School.
>>48061875
If you marry away, you are still a member of your original School and still progress in it as normal.
It's very likely that your new clan will allow you to take basic lessons in one of their Schools (Meaning their sensei will teach you Skills, but never Techniques or Kata), but you need to return to your original sensei when it's time to learn a Technique.
>>48057748
Well, I'll go commit seppuku in the corner.
>>48057741
Spider monks are rad. Like to think of them as Siths with a more religious spin.
>>48062089
Also like the Iron Cranes, in flavor, not so much in mechanics. Don't really like any of the "yojimbo" schools.
>>48062155
>If you marry away, you are still a member of your original School and still progress in it as normal
Outside of game mechanics, the real question is what access you have to your school's sensei and dojo. If you weren't that important, the answer may be 'none', unless you have particular allies. Depending on which clan you married into, multiple schools into your new family's school(s) may not be an issue.
>>48062584
Basically this. Odds are, if you're being married away, you'll probably be forced into soft-retirement as you're now in charge of your spouse's estate, and that's going to eat up a lot of your time.
>>48062089
Heres a slightly larger version of that pic
As well, I highly recommend, for both character and NPC portraits, art from any of the newer Nobunaga's Ambition games
Whats your favorite L5R weapon? By extension, whats your favorite samurai weapon?
Yari spear is undeniably the best.
>>48064169
The Nodachi.
I like big swords, I cannot lie.
>>48064169
Honestly, Kusarigama. I play with a 2.5 ft per square grid with 3e diagonals. The reach of those weapons are insane in that format.
>>48064313
They are pretty useful in L5R, and I plan on showing that in my campaign with a notable ex scoprion ronin who uses one. Using that chain, to disarm, trip guys, all kindsa shenanigans
I imagine it will drive my player party fuckin' nuts, until the musket ronin PC drops him with a shot to the chest
>>48064169
That would be the naginata in my case.
Why do people play L5R? It's one of the most poorly designed games ever published. It's fundamentally broken on a number of different levels.
If you want to play in the setting, I'd advise using GURPS to do it.
>>48065991
Burden of proof, please.
>>48065991
Im sorry, do we come into GURPS threads and tell you monkeys how shit your awful system is?
No we dont
Fuck off
>>48066005
He's posted this in 5 or 6 different threads now with different systems in the "Why do people play X?" sentence.
>>48049717
If your lord is so grievously dishonorable as to merit death, he has already killed himself, you're just removing the creature operating his body.
>>48066473
Even Fu Leng possessed Hantei 39th posed a divisive problem for Bushido following samurai of Rokugan. Anything less is only going to prove more so.
>>48045091
And this is a Daidoji technique?
Why? This flies in the face of the family's role in the clan.
>>48066473
This is one of those situations where the honor gains and losses -might- balance each other out, but you're still murdering your lord.
>>48066531
Not really. The vast majority of Daidoji fall under the "iron warrior" archetype, as the stoic, honorable military/yojimbo types. They don't do dishonorable things.
The Harriers are not a large part of the Daidoji.
>>48066531
What exactly do you think the Daidoji do, mostly?
>>48066531
?? Most Daidoji are stoic and honorable who defend their charges, in this case the Crane. Them being tanks is something they've always done since 1e, and the Harriers and Scouts only came up far later both in the timeline and in the actual game.
>>48064511
I love Chain Weapons, which makes me hella angry that no school is truly devoted to it. The Mantis Alternate Path doesn't give you SAA with Chain Weapons, and so if you want to main Chain Weapons you need to be either a Bayushi Bushi who takes the Scorpion Chain Weapon Alternate Path at R3 or a Soshi Magistrate.
>>48066650
Chain weapons are so fucking powerful though. They probably don't need a school.
>>48066531
Harriers a shit, and as much as master shredder was a cool dude, the Daidoji aren't a whole family of teppo using blue ninjas
>>48066709
I wish they had kept the 1e art style going.
>>48067861
Book art nosedived around 2nd Edition, and became absolutely awful in 3rd Edition.
4th Edition actually has pretty good art.
I personally blame WotC for the terrible art during the 2nd\3rd Ed eras.
>>48067934
Most of the RPG art is usually repurposed card art, so I guess it really reflects trends in the CCG more than anything else. But you're right, since 4e the art is overall better. Like this nice Sith Lord here
>>48069063
"Totally not a villain, samurai-dono."
>>48069340
"Please ignore my card keywords. A gaijin put them there. You know how they lie."
>>48069340
That guy is a Yogo, though. They're not very nice people, even by Scorpion standards.
>>48043163
bump
>>48070351
I think the O-yoroi is the standard that L5R uses. What makes this better?
>>48070428
Better materials, basically. Intended to be bullet-proof in the days of the tanegashima, and for the most part it did an okay job.
Remember that scene in the Deadliest Warrior Back for Blood where the Spartans fought the samurai and the spear thrust didn't even get past the iron part of the lamellar do? That was "modern," gusoku, and it stopped a well-made Spartan spear in full-thrust. The doctor thought it wouldn't even bruise the ribs.
>>48070507
>Deadliest Warrior Back for Blood
That sounds like an incredibly metal movie. What is it? Why are samurai and spartans fighting?
>>48070594
It's just the Season 2 intro thing for the show Deadliest Warrior. They called it "back for blood," because it was certain winners from their pre- and post-gunpowder era fights basically doing a tournament.
The samurai and the Spartans were considered their best pre-gunpowder combatants (not really fair, since the knight fought the pirate and lost, so the knight technically fell into the losers bracket of the "gunpowder," and couldn't compete anyway). Spartans won, but it was a good episode.
>>48070665
I have owned or been around a tv my entire life. Why did I never hear of Deadliest Warrior before? I don't live in a bubble, I use the device regularly. Somehow this slipped me by. Was it on Spike or something? That kind of sounds like a Spike show.
>>48070688
It was a Spike show, yeah.
The little cinema-like "computer shows us the fights," were always stupid as shit, and some of the pairings made no sense (knight vs pirates? Maori vs Shaolin? Really?) but the weapons tests were always fun to watch.
Anyway, samurai armor--at least, 17th-century gusoku--was VERY protective. The test that literally bent a Spartan spear 90 degrees didn't even include the under-layers of silk and chain.
>>48070428
The o-yoroi was a cavalry armour, with little to no though being given to people being able to move well in it on foot. Later (emerged pretty early for the grunts, spreads upwards through the ranks as warfare became more infantry-focused) domaru armour was a lot less box-like, still good on horseback, but also resonable on foot.
Using larger plates, less lacing, and so on also made things easier to manufacture, though this may not strictly speaking be part of what sets o-yoroi and domaru apart. It's just something that also happens to follow that divide, as the new construction came about around when people abandoned o-yoroi except for nostalgia, in which case they'd go with the old construction methods anyway.
If the domaru is capable of stopping things the o-yoroi isn't, then that too is a result of that.
>>48070507
Any metal breastplate should defeat basically any and all single handed melee weapons, because the human arm (et.al.) can only deliver so much energy in a swing or thrust. (Couched lances being one exception, since then it isn't your arm that delivers the punch, but the warhorse.)
Of course, Deadliest Warrior would miss such things, because it's a show that's pure shit in both idea and execution.
>>48070737
>the under-layers of silk and chain.
The "chain" bits aren't found under the breastplate, it's just attached on the sleeves where there is nothing much else.
>>48070790
I stand corrected on where the chain is. But the point remains. The armor did its job in that test, and that test was ideal as fuck.
Two hands for the initial thrust, held by one hand when the hips were turned for impact, against a ballistic gel torso that was advancing at like two miles per hour and was otherwise forced to stand up rigid so that deflection wasn't taken much into consideration.
And the spear blade still turned ninety degrees and the only part of the armor that broke was the lacquer on one of the lamellar plates, and that didn't get through the metal underneath.
Shocked me, frankly. I expected it to fail. But then, the era of armor they were using was intended to deflect or absorb tanegashima bullets in most situations, save for a direct impact from close range.
>>48070737
Using silk as an under-layer doesn't actually add much (Or any, in most cases) protection, but it does increase survivability by "catching" projectiles, making the wounds cleaner and easier to treat after the fact.
>>48071030
It adds something for cushioning, it must be said. And that can mean something. The difference between a broken rib and a bruised rib can make quite the difference.
>>48071070
Well yes, but no more than any other soft padding does.
>>48071030
That still sounds really useful for helping warriors survive.
>>48070848
>And the spear blade still turned ninety degrees
While more padding would have made penetration even harder, it would also have been kinder to the spearhead.
>>48071030
A single layer won't do much. Start adding layers and things will make quite a difference. A kevlar vest is "just" a number of layers of cloth. Silk may not be as strong as kevlar, but it's still very strong.
Here's some testing of linen: http://myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=11131
How many blayers we'd find in/under Japanese armor? I don't know.
If you want the silk to follow the projectile into your body, then you'll need a lot of spare cloth that can move freely. That ain't happening under a breastplate. The whole thing smells of myth.
>>48071118
It is fairly useful, which is why basically everyone with access to silk used silk under their armor.
But it's not actually protective (Aside from the basic padding factor). Getting stabbed with a silk undergarment is just as bad as getting stabbed without it. You'll be slightly less likely to get an infection, and slightly more likely to have a wound that can actually be stitched back together.
It's certainly not nothing, but its presence wouldn't meaningfully affect a weapon test.
>>48071148
According to the sources I can find, you'd actually want a thinner layer if you want the silk to be driven in with the arrow, but not ripped. The wider the area between the garment's stitching, the more give there is in the material.
Apparently there's actually modern body armor made of silk that can stop 9mm bullets, but that's very tightly woven and basically functions like kevlar, with little give.
Historically, the nips had a cape-thing called a Horo that worked pretty well at actually stopping arrows. But that's a rigid frame with a lot of empty space between the surface and the person wearing it.
New to the system, and haven't played it. Been looking around the core book, doing bits of theory crafting. Is "Luck" as overpowered as it looks? 9 xp for three best-of rerolls a session is monstrous by most game's standards, and in this particular case Void Points don't look like they'd fill that gap for anybody who isn't a lucky bastard.
>>48071404
It's pretty good, yeah.
How good it is obviously depends on how long your sessions run.
>>48071404
It's not quite as good as it would be in other systems, because rolling more dice than you keep is already a very similar effect.
The fact that you can freely choose to reroll anything is more valuable than the reroll itself, if that makes sense.
>>48071511
Rolling more dice than you keep can actually be better than a complete reroll.
If you're rolling 6k3, you roll six dice and keep the three best. If you're rolling 3k3 with a potential reroll, you might be rolling six dice, but you only get the last three if you do that.
So it's more of a safety net than anything. Good to avoid failure, but not as good at boosting your results.
>>48043807
And this is why there ought not be Honor 9 characters. Every character with an Honor of 8 and above has so many Jaime Lannister dilemmas that they can't possibly maintain their Honor.
>>48044431
No. Just no.
>>48072658
Care to explain?
>>48072733
Not the same anon, but there are a lots of dishonorable stuff, especially for a Honor 5.0 character.
>Being too chicken to go against the Emperor's will openly
Violation of Courage. By going underground, she also violated Honesty and Sincerity. By not being true to her own cause, she violated Honor.
>Not paying respect to even the vilest oni/poorest eta/craziest gaijin
Violation of Courtesy. By making up poor excuses, she also violated Honesty and Honor. By shying away from the hardness of her task, she violated Courage. By desiring to hurt others when she mustn't, she violated Compassion.
And she does all this out of selfish reasons fueled by her pride and her devotion to her lord rather than her honor and devotion to the Bushido.
>>48072927
Eh, theres too much detail to explain it, but there are so many exentuating circumstances in this case, that I'm disinclined to take hard measures.
>Being too chicken to go against the Emperor's will openly
The Emperor just turned the Akodo and all their retainers into ronin, and told the scorpion to get the fuck out of rokugan forever. The daidoji PC's lord isn;t going to risk the emperors wrath honoring an alliance with a family that just got whiped out by a sanctioned hit by its parent clan - there is no way they can intervene, and Doji Hoturi isnt going to stick his neck out for a retainer family, even if it is a well respected one. (Hes also disappeared, so theres that). The daidoji himself had basically two options - sit back and watch his lords allies get destroyed forever, including a close friend of his, which is basically the only option his lord has - or go ronin in order to help, and cut himself open for defying the emperor after the wrongs have been put right.
>Violation of Courtesy. By making up poor excuses, she also violated Honesty and Honor. By shying away from the hardness of her task, she violated Courage. By desiring to hurt others when she mustn't, she violated Compassion.
These points I agree with, however.
>And she does all this out of selfish reasons fueled by her pride and her devotion to her lord rather than her honor and devotion to the Bushido.
The definition of a Samurai is to serve, and Bushido is, at its core, the code of conduct of service to both a lord and the emperor. Going just by what you said, you'd have us believe that following bushido at the exclusion of service to your lord is the very definition of honor, when it is in fact, the very definition of selfishness.
Also, pride didn't come into the decision one bit. The decision was fueled by one primary thing - a desire to strike at his lords enemies when his lord (the she in this) cannot, due to the emperors proclamations
>>48073080
A truly honorable samurai bear the consequences of his actions, no matter how bad they are. If going against the Emperor's will is honorable, then that's what the samurai must do, no matter what happens after that.
Devotion to the Bushido overrides one's devotion to his lord. If the lord goes against the Bushido, then he does not deserve to be served (or the servitude may change to something very interesting like >>48045072), easy as that.
The question at this point is whether the character's goal to retake those lands are justifiable. Were those lands lost to subterfuge or some other unjust method? Because then it is on. Were those lands lost legitimately, in honorable conflict? Then it is just a matter of pride, and a honorable samurai should just take the loss with a straight back and live with it (as well as really think about his part and why did he let the loss occur).
>>48073145
>If going against the Emperor's will is honorable
It is not. Sometimes the only choices are dishonour, more dishonour, or seppuku.
>>48073145
>Were those lands lost to subterfuge or some other unjust method?
Yes
A rival family to the one in question, which has coveted the lands due to their rich iron mines, has, over the last three generations, brought various false testimonies to dishonor said family. More recently, using more trumped up testimony, was sanctioned in invading those lands and taking them by force.
Now, heres something you have to understand. At this point in time, considering this is all happening within the Crab clan, the Hida family are about to commit the ultimate dishonor, and just about everyone in the character group is aware that the fleet of crab that arrived at otosan uchi during the coup, could never have arrived unless they set out before the coup even started.
So, the Hida family (the lords of the family that got blackmailed and fucked over), sanctioned a yasuki retainer family (the ones who did the fucking) to knock over one of its retainers, after believing said family are scum due to trumped up false testimony by more yasuki retainer scum. Couple this with the fact that Hida are doing massively dishonorable shit, and possibly were planning a coup against the emperor themselves.
The Shima lost faith in their lords over what is just too many stabs in the back. Its time to take the whole lot of them out and restore the clan to honor.
Some of you are probabling going
>lol what, infighting amongst the crab? thats dumb
Yeah well, in about a years time from my current campaign time, Hida Kisada assembles an army of shadowlands creatures and decides its time for a coup detat against the Hantei. Thats canon.
Are doctors or other medical practitioners considered hinin, as they have to deal with blood and disease?
>>48073377
No, but many professions utilise eta servants to deal with unclean situations. With urgency, one may simply be ritually cleansed later on, and some samurai are simply less caring about perfect spiritual cleanliness.
>>48073165
Going "muh Emperor is flawless" is just general fuckery low-honor samurai would bring up to save face and pretend that they are totally honorable. A truly honorable samurai is never afraid to face the truth, no matte how unpleasant it is.
>>48073216
In this case, while the reason to retake those lands is honorable, the means to do this is not. The character is simply lost to accomplish a goal rather than thinking about how accomplishing said goal would make him no different than the ones who wronged his lord and family.
I expect this behavior from a samurai low on honor (unversed in the ways of Bushido) but high on pride (yet he thinks he is totally on-spot). He should undertake a most likely long and arduous investigation, dismantling the false accusations and bringing those who are behind them to justice. Of course, this would be 5000% harder than just going in with guns blazing and muscling one's way through the case, but the life of a honorable samurai is anything but easy.
>>48073455
>Going "muh Emperor is flawless" is just general fuckery low-honor samurai would bring up to save face and pretend that they are totally honorable. A truly honorable samurai is never afraid to face the truth, no matte how unpleasant it is.
There is no Loyalty but to the Emperor. There is no Honor but to die in his name.
>>48073455
>Going "muh Emperor is flawless"
I did not say that. How are we going to converse if you only reply to the posts that exist in your mind?
A samurai's first vows are to the emperor. Samurai do not go back on their word. They do not promise - they say what they will do, then make it so. To oppose the emperor breaks that vow, and puts their existence as samurai into question.
>>48073216
>>lol what, infighting amongst the crab? thats dumb
>Yeah well, in about a years time from my current campaign time, Hida Kisada assembles an army of shadowlands creatures and decides its time for a coup detat against the Hantei.
Same clan whose founding Kami basically told the Hantei post-tournament, when the day comes that your line isn't strong enough, mine will be there to step up to the throne.
Not such a stretch as people think.
>>48073501
You must be loyal to the Bushido and not to a person. If you are no longer loyal to the Bushido, then how can you call yourself honorable? You would be just a glorified ashigaru. A very loyal glorified ashigaru.
>>48073600
Serving the Emperor =/= doing whatever he says. A truly honorable samurai will serve the Emperor in the right way even when the Emperor doesn't know how the samurai should serve him in the right way.
The burden of being true to those he is responsible for is the samurai's to carry, no matter how heavily it weighs on his shoulders.
>>48073834
A truly honourable samurai will find ways to serve correctly and with etiquette.
Previous posts have questionably interpreted the former, or upheld the importance of the latter to Rokugani samurai.
>>48073834
>You must be loyal to the Bushido and not to a person.
My quote is specifically from L5R, I didn't make it up.
Your interpretation of Honor in L5R is somewhat flawed, it seems.
True Honor is to your Lord and the Emperor. Nothing else is important.
I will entertain no more of your gaijin barbarisms that would suggest ultimate loyalty would be up to the Samurai in question
>>48073985
>My quote is specifically from L5R, I didn't make it up.
I never said that it isn't an accepted point of view in Rokugan. Just that it isn't something low-honor samurai (or, to better say, weak-honor samurai) push to justify their own existence. This kind of self-conceit is 90% of the samurai drama in Rokugan.
>I will entertain no more of your gaijin barbarisms that would suggest ultimate loyalty would be up to the Samurai in question
This kind of ignorance is the remaining 10%.
>>48074288
I need Bayushi to leave.
>>48073636
The Hida having Imperial ambitions isn't that bad. Allying with the freaking Shadowlands is.
>>48045091
Hey, does anyone have a larger/clearer version of this pic?
>>48074658
Have you tried the website clearly and prominently printed on the image that also happens to be the name of the artist?
The card was 'victory or death', if that helps.
honor bump
>>48076561
Man, I'd let her ding my honor, if you know what I'm saying.
>>48077676
Why does this hideous picture keep getting reposted?
>>48077694
it's got oldschool charm
>>48077694
It's the only L5R fanart which is at all memorable.
>>48077741
>>48078548
>only 90s kids would get it
Anon-san im begging you.
>>48078760
You want better fan art? Then make or commission some art showing canon character tits. Until then, that pic (and other late 90s era fanart) is going to keep getting posted.
>>48074849
I did, actually. The site link to the L5R gallery is fucked and leads to a different gallery altogether.
I have a question for those of you more knowledgeable about 4th Edition then I am
I want to make a Samurai cavalry archer.
What is the best way to do this? I figure Unicorn Clan is the best place to start, but how else should I go about this?
Is it possible to do it making a Tsuruchi?
>>48081824
Technically, every great clan has some amount of cavalry, and every cavalry unit has some amount of archers. Just take ranks in the Horsemanship skill if there's a particular bushi school you want to be from. You won't be the absolute best, due to lack of Techniques, but you can always justify it as being a member of a cavalry focused dojo within your School.
For mechanical advantage, you'll be wanting the ability to use bows as a Simple Action.
The Tsuruchi can SAA with a bow regardless of being on a horse, and so they could be cavalry archers. The Dragon have a rank 3 alternate path called the Dragon's Wind that gets SAA with bows while mounted. Shinjo Bushi can use bows with SAA when mounted, but their techniques aren't great in general. Utaku Battle Maidens can SAA with anything, including bows. I think the Morito (Ox Clan) bushi can as well.
>>48082001
Matsu Berserker can SAA with any weapon too, so there's that.
>>48082014
Matsu bushi are limited to melee weapons.
>>48082023
My bad.
>>48082001
In just doing some looking on my own, through the core-book, it seems one part of this build is whether or not you even get a horse as part of your outfit. Tsuruchi archers do not.
Im not aware of how much a horse costs, but assuming 4th edition still uses the three breeds, likely if you aren't a Unicorn, the only breed you have access to is the Rokugani Pony, which isn't a particularly great cavalry horse.
As for the U\Otaku, you have to be a women, and I don't play off-gender unfortunately.
Its too bad the Moto School is too focused on heavy weapons, and the 4th Ed Shinjo school is so lame.
>>48082148
A standard Rokgani pony, the everyone-who-isn't-a-Battle-Maiden horse, is 25 koku.
>>48082148
rare imagery of the seahorse clan
>>48082148
The rokugani pony isn't that bad if you're just going for archery, and I'm willing to bet that most GMs would just give you one as part of your outfit if you make it clear that you want to be cavalry.
>>48082177
Right, which if your starting koku is 10 (for a Tsuruchi for example), you are shit out of luck on having a horse.
I guess then it comes down to whether you have a GM who will take kindly on you and give you one. But I figure most GM's would be like
>why do you want a horse?
>I want to be a cavalry archer!
>play a unicorn
>unicorn schools suck for archery, tsuruchi is best archer school
>then play an archer, not a cavalryman
>b-but...GM-sama...
>If you want a horse, buy one, or play a Unicorn
>>48082148
There's also the Utaku mounted infantry.
>>48082255
>Right, which if your starting koku is 10 (for a Tsuruchi for example), you are shit out of luck on having a horse.
Inheritance.
>>48082264
I think they have to chose between swords, polearms, and spears (Which means no bows), and, as the name implies, are actually infantry who go real fast out of combat so they can get into combat faster.
>>48082255
And that's why you make your character part of a cavalry dojo within their School as part of their backstory.
A good lord supplies what their servants need, and what a cavalry archer needs is a horse, a bow, and ideally some arrows. Your lord isn't a shitter, right?
>>48082290
Alternatively, if your gm is more permissive, look at the travelling pack's pet option.
Dog, Cat, Monkey = 1 item
Songbird = 2 items
Horse = (not there, but ask your gm)
>>48082354
The travelling pack is 90% superfluous handwave shit in my experience.
>>48082290
Thats a good point! I had always assumed "Inheritance" meant "ancient item of power if not usefulness"
>>48082329
Again it all depends on the GM.
>>48082264
Where do I find all these alternate paths anyway? Is there a specific 4th Edition Unicorn book with all the additional rules? Or is spread over multiple splats?
>>48082369
My traveling pack is usually filled with cakes and pillow books.
>>48082380
They're all sort of spread around.
Here's a good list of them. If you hover over something, it gives a short explanation of its Techniques (Not always correct, but useful for quickly digging through schools) and a book reference.
http://pixel-breath.com/imperial-registry-index-of-all-schools-in-l5r-4e/
>>48082434
>http://pixel-breath.com/imperial-registry-index-of-all-schools-in-l5r-4e/
Neat! Thank you very much!
>>48082369
OTOH, I've played in games where not having intelligently chosen travelling pack items bit almost everyone on the arse at some point.
>>48082305
True, and being printed after the yomanri path, they don't have RAW access to it.
>>48082589
That is one failing of the way 4e handles alternate character progression. Schools in splats are rarely given access to paths and kata that were printed before they were, even if they should have it.
Not that it's hard to fix, since it's usually pretty obvious when a school should have access to a specific kata or path, but by RAW, they get a bad deal.
>>48082631
Kata are slightly easier - if you're not on the list, but a bushi or ninja of the same clan, raise the ring requirements by 1.
Are there any Yari\Naginata focused schools or paths in 4th Edition?
>>48082974
There's a FUCK YOU UNICORN ronin rank 3 that gets SAA polearms and a big damage boosts against mounted warriors and large creatures.
There are numerous spear schools but none that specialises in those exact weapons iirc.
>>48082974
There are quite a few schools that focus on spears, and a few less that focus on naginata/polearms.
>>48082974
Crane get the elite spearman path, and hayaku ancestor who gives a free raise with spears.
>>48082255
>If you want a horse, buy one, or play a Unicorn
Which is when you slap your GM in the dick. There's absolutely zero reason not to help a PC create a core archetype within the fluff in the absence of a more comprehensive RAW.
>>48082974
The Lion(Matsu) Elite Spearmen are an entire School all about chucking nage-yari and using their snowflakey three-pronged magari-yari.
>>48083096
>There's absolutely zero reason not to help a PC
My GM is one of the old Jorei Bengoshi (sp?). That group of rules lawyers that did official stuff for AEG back in 3rd edition? For our group, if it's not RAW, it doesn't exist. Fluff doesn't matter. Errata and FAQs aren't RAW either - everything must be exactly as written in the rules; common sense and literally everything else be damned.
>>48083099
Oh yeah, I forgot about that one. The throwing weapons part of it is somewhat odd, but the rest is pretty neat
>>48083180
Odd, but powerful.
I think they're the only school aside from the Mirumoto who have a third attack per round.
>>48083163
What if the errata is written in an officially published splatbook? Because Imperial Archives has a ton of errata.
>>48083163
>if it's not RAW, it doesn't exist. Fluff doesn't matter.
>Errata and FAQs aren't RAW either
Hahaha what? Who the fuck are these people?
>>48083096
>in the absence of a more comprehensive RAW
.... But there is RAW for this.
>>48083227
They're the reason fourth edition did a 360° and moonwalked away from third edition's attempt to create techniques and mechanics fire everything.
>>48083317
WILL THE LEGEND OF IKOMA HOTSUMA CONTINUE?
FIND OUT NEXT TIME.
>>48083163
Fire GM. Run your own game, with Fortunes and Winds and oiran!
>>48082369
>Not taking five monkeys
>>48083874
>only 5
You get 10 items to take with you. What's hold you back?
>>48083906
Pets count as two items.
>>48083906
pets counts as 2
>>48083925
>>48083943
Solution: use monkeys to steal other samurai's unassigned traveling packs. Retroactively fill their packs with more monkeys.
>>48083874
I had a PC in a game I was in a long time ago, who was a scorpion who pretended to be a monk all the time. If someone pissed him off, he carried tons of pet crickets with him, and would release them inside that persons house\castle
Bow bump
>>48082255
Or you could pick up the Commerce skill and make yourself a merchant patron. Good way for the GM to plot with you too (oh your merchants are attacked by bandits, etc).
>>48072733
The Honor system is not to be bargained out of. I would have caused Honor loss for that Daidoji every step of the way. If the PC complains "but my concept is a high honor guy," its your job to say "honor is hard, exceptionally hard, to maintain." The code of Bushido is, by design, impossible to follow. Characters who walk that path, live that life, and eat nothing but Honor Pie all day need to balance perfectly. If they do not, they must tumble to a more reasonable Honor rank. They can always attempt the climb yet again. That is a major part of the struggle of playing a character who strives to be honorable.
>>48085341
>its your job to say "honor is hard, exceptionally hard, to maintain."
Plus they weren't making that effort to do so really, just rationalizing their choices. Really that sounds like an interesting low honor, high Perceived Honor character.
>>48085341
>>48085448
The whole struggle of what is honorable, what is right, and what is practical all being completely separate things most of the time is kind of the entire fucking point of the game.
>>48085474
almost every time.
Okay /tg/. It's festival time. Give me ideas for commoner festivals that upstanding samurai can crash.
>>48086740
"Pretend you're a samurai" Day.
>>48082974
There's also the Utaku Mounted Infantry, who can focus on either of those weapons.
>>48086740
Not a new one, but shouting day. Peasants gather to shout to osano-wo about crop problems, personal issues, etc.
Samurai usually ignore it, but ronin have been known to break up gatherings. Some villages whisper complaints about samurai instead, or in addition to.
>>48081824
Shinjo Bushi Basic School + Shinjo Scout Alternate Path at Rank 2 + Yomanri Archer Alternate Path at Rank 4, and you are done.
The Tsuruchi Archer is pretty bleh on a horse because the School has no Horsemanship-related bonuses.
>>48087713
>The Tsuruchi Archer is pretty bleh on a horse because the School has no Horsemanship-related bonuses
I find it odd when people consider basic attribute + skill unworthy. That's what you'll be using for everything, but for a handful of exceptions.
