If the imperium is a Fascist hellhole, how would a capitalist hellhole look like?
oh god the amount of comunism in a single post
/pol/ bait thread, please ignore.
>>47785066
Look at any Cyberpunk setting, really.
>>47785107
There's no need to speculate about how a Communist hellhole would look, we all know how that goes.
>>47785066
You can argue the empire has a form of comunism moreso than facism, since you are locked in your job even if you can do something else better.
>>47785107
I wish we had those kind of commies/sjw's here, as they are more the "we will stand in front of the uni and stab/bomb/shoot you for saying you are not one of us"
>>47785302
The thing Marx would hate most is modern Marxists.
>>47785066
Shadowrun.
>>47785321
this.
What if commie?
>bread lines lines
>>47785066
America.
Cyberpunk
>>47785066
All really depends on the pressures of the setting?
Real life : Mexico
How it would play out in 40k?
The admin would be down played, each world is ruled by landed elites, or merchant guilds, or magos factory complexes. People are now just another form of currency, some world's grow people as a product selling excess people for technology from the scions of Mars (who 99.99% of the time promptly servitorize or harvest the brain matter for computational assets, while recycling the rest).
The war against chaos can be brought off, poor free people and slaves are the majority of the armed forces, sent their as they could afford the delistment cost or send others in thier place )
Rogue trader ships and fleets constantly being created to explore the unknown, free people can sign the charter and buy shares in the profit factor.
Mega rich dynasties control subsectors, the pdfs are replaced with the corporations security guards, the arbiters uphold the imperial standard ( the codes and practices of capitalistic enterprise).
Gold is the color of the imperial throne, and it can buy you what ever you can imagine or find amongst the billions of space bazaars on millions of planets.
>>47785066
EVE online
>>47785066
The corpus from warframe
They are explicitly a capitalist hell. Being born incurs a debt you owe to your family. Your education and upbringing are just another thing you owe.
>>47785829
Robocop is the most intellectual dumb action movie ever
>>47785066
The Imperium is a mercantilist, decentralized, pseudo-feudal empire. It's neither fascist, communist, nor capitalist in any true sense. Individual worlds might have collectivist or liberalized economies, but they all fall under the thumb of the administratum who allocates the resources and capital. There's very little free trade in the Imperium.
>>47785066
>capitalist hellhole
There is no such thing. The free market will solve any problem, and if it doesn't, either that's objectively not a problem or there's still too much regulation. True capitalism has never been tried!
>>47786315
Absolutely this. The Caldari's whole shtick is that you're born as an employee of a large corporation and worked into an early grave. It's fairly on the nose but then this is the same universe that gave us the Amarr(we have slaves and worship space Mohammed) and the Minmatar(have you ever watched firefly? Well basically that but we used to be slaves)
>>47786698
It's certainly fascist in the sense that everything done by the Imperiums citizenry and institutions is done to support the Imperial military. Militarization of society is a key component of Fascist ideology.
But everything else you said is basically correct. The Imperium is a libertarians worst nightmare.
>>47785321
This this.
>>47786716
As someone who was born before the 1980's, I personally miss the smell of lead in the air.
What's a bit of blood cancer when you can watch rich people hold increasingly large and absurd parties in their solid gold skyscraper swimming pools?
Sometimes you can catch a bit of boob if you squint, or look through one of those pay-a-dime binoculars.
![bioshock-rapture-city1[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/OcBj1ZY.jpg "bioshock-rapture-city1[1].jpg")
>>47785066
Rapture
>>47785107
It's almost like propaganda doesn't show the boring, depressing truth of living under a particular political regime
One word:
Jopall Indentured Squadrons
http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Jopall_Indentured_Squadrons
We used to talk about it, back when /tg/ was good.
http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/9395826/
>>47785321
+3
>>47785066
Real life.
>>47786577
Yes.
>>47785107
Not OP, and not a communist/socialist etc. But defending Capitalism in it's current form is insane. It is steadily turning our society into a Lord/peasant dynamic. Most people arent equipped to resist their own greed, thats human nature.
It's not a black and white issue. You can still support the idea of a free market, and the core tenets of capitalism - while admitting that capitalism has been bastardized and manipulated by those on top.
Capitalism wasnt supposed to be 'fuck you I'm taking as much as I can, to your detriment' Yet that is what it has become. Stop defending the very people that are fucking you, your family, and friends in the ass.
>>47785066
Rapture
>>47787796
People live longer and are wealthier on average than any other time in history.
>>47787909
Yea the ones rich enough to have good healthcare, and the .8% who make as much as the lower 40% combined. We have worse income inequality than India. Motherfucking beggars on the street make closer to maharajah than you do to the Walls family.
>>47787909
Yes they do, but they would still be living longer and healthier - perhaps even longer and healthier, and certainly a higher quality of life - if the system wasnt being abused by the few, at the expense of the many.
Im not going to get into a pissing contest with you though. Its undeniable that corporations, politicians, and the extremely wealthy have and are abusing the system. Laws are created to protect them, and expose you. Thats the reality.
I get that you want to identify as a liberal hating, stars and stripes supporting, X and Y values embracing, citizen. But dont sacrifice your common sense to do so. You are being taken advantage of. Your life could, and should be better. Capitalism doesnt need to go away. The absolute power of those at the top needs to be checked, monitored, regulated.
>>47788000
>We have worse income inequality than India
Without checking any statistics I can already guarantee that's because there are more rich people in the US and those are richer than the richest people in India. Still the poorest are far better off than the poorest in India.
This argument is smoke and mirros.
>>47788000
No, in general people live longer all over the world. It's been this way for decades. The beggars of today have luxuries that the peasants of yesteryear could never imagine.
>>47788066
I'm not even American idiot. Capitalist systems have undoubtedly provided never before seen wealth and prosperity to millions that has improved their quality of life considerably.
Fuck off to /pol/ with this bullshit. It doesn't belong on /tg/
>>47788114
>I'm not even American
Neither was Ayn Rand.
>>47787796
The problem with capitalism is that it only works if corporations are entities that work purely out of rational self-interest. Unfortunately, they're highly dogmatic and run by people who have their own personal biases and goals. What we have is some strange form of economic oligarchy, where no one is concerned so much with production or profits as with getting to the top and keeping anyone else from attempting to challenge that position.
>>47787796
What to do with that verybad system then
>>47788220
Kill millions of people in a bloody revolution that the Prollies don't actually support of course. :^)
>>47788114
Calm down anon. You dont have to reply or even open the thread. As for quality of life being higher than ever, you are right. But it could, and should, be even higher.
>>47788220
I'm not qualified to offer a viable solution. But I imagine it would involve checks and balances that actually work; and putting the power of gov't back in the hands of the people. As opposed to lifelong, self-serving politicians.
>>47785066
Commoragh
>>47788220
Remove people from business and have the robots control the management side of things.
Hell, have robots control the production side of things, too. Why even involve humans in the first place?
>>47788341
This. Commoragh is literally a Mafia state.
>>47785066
Probably a system in which the banks are centralized in all but name, the government isn't in charge of printing its own money, and the every time the banks fuck up, they're bailed out by the publics tax money and the use that money to influence the government into having giving the banks less regulations and grow larger still.
>>47788372
Cheeky
>>47788331
>lifelong, self-serving politicians
many of whom are related.
At some point we're gonna have to stop and think "wait a minute, how did the nobility manage to reconstitute itself financially, give itself immunity to the rule of law, and retain exclusive ruling rights for their families... and at what point should we start calling them Lords and Ladies again?"
I guess "Lady Clinton" or "Lord Bush" would tip everyone off that something fishy has happened.
Like how Art Deco skyscrapers fell out of style: too superior-looking.
>>47788402
As a socialist I'd have an easier time accepting the harsh reality if they had proper titles, posh castles, armed retinues in full plate and all the rest. It would change nothing, but anesthetics would be so much better.
>our beloved ruler, Donald I, emperor of the North America, king of Hawaii and Puerto Rico, lord of Samoa, Guam, Kingman Reef, etc.
>>47785066
Shadowrun
>>47785066
>What would a Capitalist hellhole similar to the Imperium be like?
Mutant Chronicles
>>47786558
Sounds like debt slavery to me. You're basically forcing those services on a minor who shouldn't be in a position to sign such contracts.
>>47788220
Gradually back out of free trade agreements (going cold turkey would cause too much of an economic shock), get meaningful trustbusting going on, overturn Citizens United, and get some suitably angry lawyers to close out tax loopholes. Also, term limits for congressfucks.
The first two are the most important, as backing out of free trade limits the efficiency of exporting the entire economy, and busting up megacorps reduces their ability to pull anticompetitive bullshit.
>>47786716
I'm reminded of the dude who bought the rights to some cancer medicine and then charged hundreds of dollars per pill for it. What you gonna do, not live?
>>47787909
Lifespans have been increasing since the dawn of time thanks to constantly improving technology. Crediting capitalism with that today makes no more sense than crediting monarchy with that a hundred and fifty years ago.
>>47785066
Company towns and debt slavery would be the dystopian version of capitalism. You rent living space from a company-owned apartment complex, you spend your money in a company-owned store, and wages/expenses are calibrated to make sure you never really have any other options.
Very Shadowrun.
>>47785066
Ferenginar, pre-DS9.
>>47789880
People always hold up that example as a failure of the free market without realizing that the free market solved it. The public backlash was so great that the company changed its policy and lowered the price.
>>47785066
Commorragh
>>47790233
>>47789880
you've both misunderstood that instance
the guy did it to lower the companies stock market and make its rival company succeed
the fine for stock manipulation <<<<< the profits made.
>>47790233
Isn't "public backlash" an outside influence on the free market, though? And government regulation could be seen as a formalized version of public backlash.
>>47787460
>4 actual bullet holes directly through torso, and very near if not directly though the heart
>still standing
thats domino, she doesnt have any sort of healing factor or invulnerability, she just makes people around her unlucky
that artist is a fucking fagola
>>47790398
>Isn't "public backlash" an outside influence on the free market, though?
Nope. And the free market is more democratic than any government could ever be.
>>47785066
Elect Drumpf and find out.
>>47790502
>drumpf
fuck off you memespouting faggot
trump is a repulsive human being and not fit to lead a country, let alone a fucking corner store, but attack him based on his policies or actions, not the fact that his parents had a name that sounded kinda funny that they had to change when they immigrated
its people like you who make me disillusioned about the political left
>>47790453
so the free market includes public opinion, what about any forms to concentrate an organize public opinion.
You've already thrown out the government, what about unions, boycotts, organized protests?
>>47790541
As a Trump supporter I find the Drumpf meme useful because it usually foreshadows the level of discourse to expect.
>>47790585
certainly roots out the retards before you need to actually talk to them
>>47790581
As long as they don't use force.
>>47790585
You mean when he loses?
>>47785217
Didn't feudalism also do that?
>>47787796
I want you to imagine that you have a teenager. He's a football player. He's dumb, he's handsome, he's really good at throwing a ball and doing squats. He's 17.
Now I want you to imagine that you have a really, really, really hot high school biology teacher. Somehow. She's smoking hot. Literally on fire. Redhead. She's 29.
Now I want you to imagine that this teacher lets the teenager fuck the living shit out of her six times a day for two months. Eventually she starts grading him higher and letting him skip classes. Students notice. Eventually the authorities get involved.
Who is at fault, Chad Thundercock who is a dumb teenager whose authority figure allowed him to behave inappropriately, or Ms. Wallace, whose sole job was to NOT let Chad Thundercock fuck her, and to grade students fairly?
That is the relationship between Capital and Government. Human greed is predictable, but unless exploitation is FACILITATED by government, it is not dangerous, merely callous. Today the people fucking "me my family and my friends" in the ass aren't ebil corporations, they're a bunch of Jews who run the banking establishment, the federal reserve and the government agencies whose job it is to audit and oversee these organizations. Instead of doing their jobs they use their power to influence the markets and to pull of complex frauds on the public. The State isn't supposed to collude with business, that is literally the definition of corruption.
Yet for some reason everyone's idea of an appropriate response to government corruption is to expand the powers of government, or to increase taxes on everybody. As though those taxes will not go straight back into the pockets of the corrupt bureaucrats who caused the problem in the first place. This is why we can never have a rational conversation about "fixing" modern Capitalism.
>>47790660
Trump's purpose was never to win the General Election. His own campaign staff admitted that he didn't expect to win the Primary, even.
Trump ran to destroy the Neoconservative Republican Establishment, and at this he has utterly succeeded. Unlike Bernie Sanders, who ran to expose the blatant corruption of the Democratic Party and instead illustrated that its voters don't care about corruption, the RNC leadership has been completely humiliated. The illusion of Neocon invincibility is gone.
This may not seem significant to you, but a very significant portion of the country identifies as "Conservative," but can't get on board with the delusional Evangelical Trotskyists who have taken over the party.
The fact that he has a chance at all of winning is nice, but it doesn't really matter. The Republicans control the House and the Senate, and because they dominated the Midterms right before the last Census, that isn't going away until at least the 2020s, so it doesn't matter if we elect Hillary Clinton, Bernie Sanders or Walter Mondale, we're safe from the depredations of the Left for now.
>>47787796
>Capitalism wasnt supposed to be 'fuck you I'm taking as much as I can, to your detriment' Yet that is what it has become. Stop defending the very people that are fucking you, your family, and friends in the ass.
>there's a finite amount of wealth in the pot and rich people are just taking it
I don't understand what I think I'm criticizing: the post
>>47790828
>it doesn't matter if we elect Hillary Clinton, Bernie Sanders or Walter Mondale, we're safe from the depredations of the Left for now.
>what is the Supreme Court
>>47790452
Holy shit! That is Domino, isn't it? I thought it was just some Joan Jett cyberpunk babe. I figured she wasn't dead from all her wounds because of internal cybernetics. I usually see Domino drawn chalk white/slightly blue tinged occasionally. In this pic she looks ordinary Caucasian skin tone... but I can see the black spots around her eyes. Huh.
>>47790726
B-but muh invisible market handle!
>>47785066
Congratulations, m8.
You successfully attracted a large number of brainless people to this thread.
>>47785066
capitalism isn't a system of government you dummy
>>47791024
yeah, it's definitely domino, seen it on /co/(rip) a million times
it's really nicely drawn, but the lack of attention to detail really bugs me
>>47785066
>how would a capitalist hellhole look like?
1890s America.
Or 2010s America.
>>47790541
>attack him based on his policies
Can't do that, because he's literally the most liberal candidate in both parties' primaries. He's also probably the most sane. Regardless of which party you belong to, his candidacy is an embarrassment.
On the Democratic side you have candidates arguing about how we need to ban all guns so people can go back to murdering each other with knives and clubs like God intended, and about how important it is that we need to invade sovereign countries for reasons that clearly don't reflect authentic American interests.
On the Republican side you have candidates arguing about whether or not you should be able to buy dildos, because somehow it's the government's job to dictate what recreational pastimes citizens are allowed to participate in.
And then you've got Trump, who's said basically nothing except that we probably shouldn't invade people haven't done anything to us and spouting border wall memes that it's obvious no one is ever going to follow through on.
>>47791538
he's said other things, they're just massively inconsistent with each other unless their about him being awesome an anyone who opposes him being corrupt.
His campaign is the same as his business, he's selling sizzle, and making sure no one sees any sausage.
>>47791538
>border wall memes
>memes
THE WALL JUST GOT
TEN
FEET
HIGHER
>>47791538
He's publicly condoned violence and barbarism, for one thing.
>>47791617
>anyone who opposes him being corrupt.
Well, he's not wrong.
>His campaign is the same as his business, he's selling sizzle, and making sure no one sees any sausage.
He's no worse than any of the other candidates in that sense.
>>47791538
>policies OR actions
dont cherrypick the bits you want to address because its easier, you intellectual midget
>>47791835
>Well, he's not wrong
no he's very wrong, because he accuses EVERYONE who opposes him in any way as being corrupt.
Some of them are, but not all
>He's no worse than any of the other candidates in that sense.
No, the other candidates are trying to convince you that the sausage is a lot better than it is, and that there is more of it.
Trump doesn't have any sausage. And only a vague idea of what sausage is.
There is a difference. The other candidates will give you something sad, disappointing, and frustrating. Trump might actually break the sausage factory.
Corrupt governments can function, depending on the form of corruption. Trump could make President Jackson look good, replacing corruption with incompetent corruption.
>>47788341
Simple as that.
Hell, the answer was on the very setting, why did this thread became such a /pol/ack shitstorm?!
>>47792200
Because if there's one thing /pol/ can't do, it's refrain from spamming their message everywhere they go.
And they say vegans and vapers are bad...
World so polluted you need to even pay for air.
Zero regulations on anything, so you can only rely on megacorps with established reputation to know you're not ingesting poison and even then you still can never be certain
Company scrip is the norm, universal use money only is worth so much in comparison to scrip that effectively only megacorps have any
Property laws means than while you're technically not a slave and free to leave any time, anyone within the property who doesn't act according to the property owners wish ( read: you're not allowed to leave) is now a trespasser, who will be "removed" with lethal force first and not given the opportunity to vacate the premises. This is entirely legal.
Education is not a right and there is no public education, you only receive enough education to know how to do your job.
>>47785066
>capitalism is bad
People smart and charismatic enough to get money, well, get it. Natural seleciton at its finest.
>but muh inequality!
Abolish the family/bloodline inheritance, and you suddenly have a much better society.
Meritocracy is a superior system, no matter how you look at it, and capitalism is good enough to support it, even if there are much better options.
Definitely not fucking communism/fascism or their variants, though.
Shame that aristocracy nearly died out due to capitalism, though. Bourgoisie is good and all, but there are some things that just can't be done with a drop of blue blood in it.
>>47792647
>Abolish the family/bloodline inheritance
>man works hard so his children don't have to
>government suddenly up and takes that away
fuck off
>>47792647
how can you at once support aristocracy and meritocracy? do you literal believe the well-bred have an innate superiority that ensures they'll naturally rise to the top?
>>47792647
The problem is meritocracy doesn't exists.
Timmy is born in a wealthy home, and will continue to be wealthy for his entire life, even if he's a retard.
John is born in a poor home, and the chances that he gets out of the shithole he's living in are close to 0.
>m-muh free market!
Capitalism and the theories that support it try to accommodate reality to a model, when it should be the inverse.
Economy is not all about rational decisions. NOBODY takes all the rational decisions, not even you when you go to the store to buy something to eat. It's all influenced by culture, society, social norms and a REALLY FUCKING LONG LIST of things.
So thinking "b-but everyone behaves rationally!" is stupid as fuck
>>47792599
Do you have any actual evidence for this?
>>47789797
came to post this
>>47785311
If I remember correctly what I learned about him, he already disapproved of marxists back in his days.
So, yeah, I gues you're right.
Shadowrun.
>>47785066
Pic related is the only answer
>>47789797
>Mutant Chronicles
Damn, that was pretty nice. Shame the movie was a pile of shit.
Also, this.
>>47791016
This is the only reason to vote for trump.
If Shillery gets in we will have a left wing supreme court that will shit up everything for the next 50 years.
