So /tg/, how's your novel coming along?
>currently have well fleshed out alternate history timeline/setting as a different spin on WWII and the 1930s/40s world
>can't settle on how many characters to feature and what locations in the globe to have said characters
>>47737605
Awful. I love to write, but I'm horribly fickle. I have a lot of neat ideas, and I generally understand how to write a short story, but I'm never going to write an entire novel that isn't a pretentious pile of crap.
Writing it literally as I'm posting, actually.That's code for "I'm procrastinating on /tg/"
>>47737709
Do it anyway, man! We've got Perdido Street Station, it's not like pretentious means you can't make it.
Also, >Alt history WW2
Please just go balls-deep and write this, OP. We need more. Bitter Seeds was not enough.
about 1.2 million collected words 94% of which are absolute nonsense or unrelated to anything else
>>47737736
Have you red Man in the High Castle or the Uber comic series? It's exactly about that.
Maybe one day I'll actually write a novel, but right now I'm on a bit of a children's lit kick.But if I get really lazy, I'll just create an overarching introductory frame narrative for my seemingly unconnected short stories, slap them together in a random order, and write some sort of pretentious forward jerking off Sassure as hard as I can.
>>47737736
The john birmingham world war 2.0 books are kinda terrible, but also a really neat yarn.
>>47737709
Don't worry about pretentiousness, stuff like that is subject. Plus if you're really worried you can always have friends or editors refview it and you can always do rewrites.
>>47737736
OP here, definitely going to write it at some point, its just in the early stages is all. And is Bitter Seeds good? It sounds a bit more like sci-fi historical fiction rather than the average alternate history premises of "what if x event happened differently" and even then seems a bit odd for sci-fi but maybe thats just me.
>>47737806
>and even then seems a bit odd for sci-fi but maybe thats just me.
Sounds like you haven't read slipstream mashups or speculative far future hard sci-fi. Sci-fi is almost odd by definition.
>>47737605
OP again, I feel I should also clarify that when I say alternate WWII, don't picture the usual stuff with WWII, setting I'm working on has a central powers vidtoey in WWI so things are different to say the least in this setting what with Kaiser Wilhelm still kiciking around, Trotsky succeeding Lenin, and DeGaulle becoming a proto-fascist alongside Mussolini.
>>47737835
Fair enough, I've dabbled in that kind of sci-fi but barely. Perhaps I should dabble more/get more exposure to that sort of sci-fi.
I've got a neat little three act structure written out. Just gotta get into the nitty gritty.
>>47737854
With regards to slipstream scifi, there is a very good anthology called "Feeling Very Strange: The Slipstream Anthology" and it will cover just about all your bases. Either you'll love it or you'll hate it.
Now for hard far-future speculative sci-fi the first one that comes to mind is The Engineer: Reconditioned by Neal Asher. Now the genre may be debatable, but the general premise is pretty sound. He writes a bunch of body-horror based short stories about exploring an alien planet, and the entire thing is just very... unsettling. Giant flying living ships filled with parasites unsettling. I found it particularly neat how he describes applying the scientific method to the planet-seeder-type creature.
>>47737605
Slowly but surely, and so far fairly decent in quality, as I have a bad habit of rewriting when I should be writing. Thank you for asking my good anon.
>>47737605
Very slow.
I like worldbuilding and can get it correct to set a mood I want. However I rarely can get myself to properly write it down as novel and the more I write it the more I start to doubt whole thing. It is like I missing a spark to start beliving into things I came up with and put together.
>>47737967
Are you me?
I wrote extensively in university, but I'm on a two-year hiatus. I'm seemingly incapable of doing anything without a tremendous amount of stress and a firm deadline.
>>47737605
I can't write worth a damn and I barely write at all if I'm not writing for specific things like Storythreads .
My current idea is about superheroes. I have an outline I actually want to write something so it's a bit better than my other attempts.
>>47737605
It's stuck.
Each time I'm trying to write more of it I get an idea for different story. Can't focus on a single one for the life of me.
Finished it over a year ago, had nothing but rejections from agents.
You can imagine that I'm not feeling very optimistic.
I gave up on my dreams ages ago.
I am not a naturally good writer nor do I have the mental fortitude to put the work in to becoming one.
>>47738048
What was some of the feedback? Do you need help?
Once they create that machine that transfers human thought to a page, I'll finish it
>>47738048
Say fuck it and put it online.
>>47738058
Nah, the feedback is that it's well-written, it's just not fitting into any existing niches, so it's entirely my fault for writing something that isn't easy for agents to sell. I just threw myself into it and produced something I wanted, when I should have been thinking more about what they wanted.
>>47738086
I'd rather just move on and do more traditional stuff there's more of a market for. That's what I'm doing now. At least I can say I learned more about writing and story structure from the first book.
>>47738120
What was the book about anon?
And you never know, uploading it chapter by chapter as a blog or something could attract a cult audience.
As a guy who never gets the time to just sit down and write it seems like you're missing out on a great opportunity.
>>47737605
slowly... very slowly...
>have 60 pages of world building
and I am constantly in the process of updating designs and histories of the main/more interesting civilizations, and their technology... etc
Trying to make a rather hard sci fi so as a result I'm learning heaps and adding bits and pieces
I have barely anything done in terms of people or character development or a story line as such sadly. Rather I have pages and pages of in depth ramblings about the societies and the civilizations in my setting.
not sure if its going to be a novel or a heap of short stories and the such, that most likely will be sealed away somewhere so nobody reads them.
TL;DR space opera that doubles as a social commentary
>>47738202
Bro. Bro. I'm tellin ya, cool it on the worldbuilding. Unless you are writing an RPG and not a novel you never, under any circumstances need that much worldbuilding. Write what shows up, let the reader worry about what doesn't.
>>47738151
Maybe when I finally get a response from people who still haven't rejected me.It's about an archivist who lives in a massive floating shell in the sky. He works endlessly in his prison doing busywork with books and documents until the shell's broken open one day by a clockwork knight woman who's trying to find someone. When the shell-structure collapses they both escape as it falls down towards the world below, revealed to be a large island with a giant tower in the middle.
It's kind of a mystery adventure story. It becomes apparent the inhabitants of the different parts of the island are trapped in mental "fogs" of routine and logic loops and the protagonist is one of the few free-thinkers alongside his companion, so the pair of them travel throughout the world searching for others as they head towards the tower, which is sending out airships full of soldiers to stop them. They end up recruiting a mad cannibal, a gun fanatic and a woman who's half-human, half-sword, and the focus is about the disparate personalities and perspectives of the group as they deal with traps, ambushes, conflicting opinions and so forth.
I tried to put a lot of surreal imagery and horror elements into it because I like that sort of thing but the end result is that it's kind of full of weird visuals that I bet are the reason it was turned down so much.
I'm struggling to make a unique and coherent magic system. Most of what I come up with sounds like superhero powers rather than proper magic.
>>47738243
I'd say do as much world-building as you can; then put the absolute minimum you can into the book. That way you have a logical structure that can be inferred from the way people behave, and give verisimilitude to the world at large without massive info dumps every 5 pages.
Plus if you're successful your asshole kids can take your never intended for publication world building notes and shit out some cash grab sequels after your dead.
>>47738003
>My current idea is about superheroes
I've seen more of these recently.
>>47738277
>>47738243
He's writing hard science fiction. If such a thing is actually publishable in this day and age, his audience will want to know more about the setting and how things work.
>>47738278
Which is why I probably will never try to publish it.
Which is really how it goes for most of my ideas.
But it's something I want to do for fun.
>>47738267
But anon, super hero powers ARE magic. Just use particular conduits to summon the magic, create some incorporeal force that ties all magic together, and make sure the characters don't act like super heroes. Sure, a wizard might save a castle by stopping a boulder with the power of his mind, but dollars to doughnuts he'd be a pretentious fuckwit about it. He may even be too apathetic to help in the first place.
>>47737605
>Fantasy Heist Novel
>Not sure how to get all the characters on the same page without them breaking character
How does a crew of thieves keep their shit together? The danger level is through the fucking roof due to them about to rob a Dragon, who is also a sorcerer, who is also the unquestioned Grorious Reader of an entire nation. How can I get them to not just immediately NOPE out and snitch on the others? At least too much so as to ruin the heist?
>>47738303
One of them puts a "no snitching" curse on the others?
>>47738303
They're stupid and self deceiving.
>>47738303
Put in a frame narrative were they're compelled by an ominous plot device to work together. Maybe the king is holding some people they care about hostage? Maybe it's a quest by one of the gods, and failure would result in a horrific punishment? How about it's some sort of demonic blood pact where each member is linked to the other like some sort of human voodoo dolls? You could even have the most snitch-prone characters feel some sort of honor-among-thieves thing.
>>47738299
I don't have a problem with behaviour, I just have a problem with the magic being so limited as to be a superpower. Like if you were Superman or the Flash, you wouldn' t call yourself a wizard coz your powers are to fly or to go fast, and a wizard does things like throw fireballs, or summon creatures, or mind control, or all of the above.
The particular conduits thing I'm not sure I understand. Like if Superman could only fly if he had a magic bracelet or something? Doesn't really disguise the fact it's a superpower rather than broader magic.
The incorporeal force thing I'm also not sure I understand. I'm happy enough to tie magic to gifts from the gods or whatever, but if you say that Superman can fly and the Flash can run fast because God made it so, I'm not sure that's convincing or interesting fantasy magic.
>>47737605
>have setting
>have characters
>have plot
>can't actually write for shit
Just kill me.
>>47738317
I sort of like this. The magic system in the story sort of encourages dickbag mind-shenanigans. But since all the thieves have some sort of magical background this might be an odd thing to do.
>>47738330
One of them hates the Wyrm King more than his own well being. Literally fought for 60+ years just for a shot of killing him, and only now has set up a heist that could realistically kill the King. One sees him as a father-figure and is in it to help people and to see more of the world. And one is a master-thief whose family was destroyed by the Wyrm. He's the one I worry about as he's lived on the street so long that "look-out-for-number-one" is just ingrained in him.
And he's the main POV. So...
>>47738303
The best way is the characters. Give them a reason why it's important. Like, maybe the dragon killed her dad. Or he's a thrill-seeker, and this is the ultimate thrill. Character driven stories are always better.
>>47738243
well I feel I need to know the places and events that create the characters... A lot of the plot sorta is based on how the civs and factions interact with one another and how they try to out do each other and gain an advantage/maintain power in any way they can.
>>47738360
>I sort of like this. The magic system in the story sort of encourages dickbag mind-shenanigans. But since all the thieves have some sort of magical background this might be an odd thing to do.
All of them curse each other in an attempt to protect themselves, but the magic intermingles and turns into this irremovable clusterfuck curse on all of them where by if one of them snitches they'd all die. The only way to remove it involves one of the treasures they're trying to steal?
>>47737605
Who is your main character?
What do they want?
Who or what is stopping them from getting what they want?
What state is your main character in at the start of the story, and what state are they in at the end?
What are you trying to say with this story?
These are the elements you need to bear in mind while plotting a story. Only once you've got these elements settled should you bother to worldbuild, because then you'll know precisely what elements of your world you actually need to work on and develop.
>>47738283
This was pretty much my logic too
>appealing to super nerds is really fucking hard they will be all over my maths if I fuck up.
>>47738277
that was the general idea really
I'd be ok with that desu.. I'd still be providing for my kids and their kids so... I win?
>>47738383
Magic in-setting is very person-dependant. No item could help them in that way...but magic is also triggerable by events, signs, and other things. Perhaps the heist itself breaks the curse? Or killing the Wyrm?
>>47738456
You're the writer, anon.
>>47738360
Hmm, if the character is naturally pragmatic, why not make it pragmatic not to snitch? I know it sounds kind of obvious, but perhaps the Wyrm King uses some of his dragon sorcery to try and create some sort of broad spectrum illusion as a last-line-of-defense against thieves?
In my head this played out in one of two ways:
>The Wyrm King shows the grizzled thief a future in which he succeeds in killing the Wyrm King, but is consumed by inconsolable rage and becomes a murderous dictator. In response, the grizzled thief decides he wants to reveal the party to the Wyrm King so that he can spare the world his wrath, which looks much worse than the dragon's wrath as part of the illusion. Maybe even his dead family convinces him or something, that's not important. What is important is that pragmatic main character thief recognizes that grizzled thief is possessed with dragon madness, then has an epiphany, slaps some wits into grizzled thief, and recognizes the pervasive nature of the wyrm king's evil.
or,
>The pragmatic thief experiences an illusion that compels him to snitch on the party. For some reason I really want it to be his dead family giving him an impassioned speech or something. As the master thief is about to snitch, he notices something off about the illusion. I was thinking a locket from a wif, or a rock given to him by his kid that's noticeably different. Anyways, master-thief realizes that it's an illusion and comes to resent the dragon for manipulating him instead of simply asking. You can even have him have asides about wanting to snitch and foreshadow that he's going to snitch, before flipping the script.
>>47738303
They all know each other, and have been working together for years on smaller jobs. They're not going to snitch on each other because they're all good friends, and are all committed to the gang's goals.
Jesus Christ, this isn't hard.
>>47738495
Furthermore, if you want them to be immune to the traitor-magic or whatever, just fucking make something up. Fuck canon, fuck worldbuilding, and fuck anyone who whines about "muh consistency".
Drama is king, not the fucking set-dressing.
>>47738534
When I read your post, I instantly thought of this guy. I don't really know why, but here you go.
>>47738258
I WOULD READ THE EVERLOVING FUCK OUT OF THAT
>>47738258
And why haven't you self-published this masterpiece and promoted the fuck out of it on reddit?
I've taken courses in science fiction and I have a professor who would literally cream her jeans if it's as fleshed out as it sounds.
>>47738337
Oh shut up, stop fucking whining. If you never get to it, you'll never improve your writing enough to have something published. Now shut up and get to work.
>>47738258
It may have been rejected because the story took too long to get moving, lingering on the life of the archivist for just a bit longer than your proof-reader was willing to put up with.
Alternatively, it may have been rejected because the main characters had no clear goal. Sure, they want to get to the tower, but WHY? Why does the clockwork knight want to get there? Why is the Archivist going with her? You need to dramatise the "why" for the character's goals to matter to the audience, because if the audience doesn't know "why" a character is doing something, they will struggle to empathise with them, and by extension struggle to get emotionally invested in their struggles.
Just some thoughts.
>>47737605
I don't know where to start because my setting is too goddamn big and I worked on it too long. I freeze up when I try to work on a story and not the setting itself. Its driving me crazy as i finally feel mature enough to pull of writing that isn't full of angst, edgy, too dark, and a pile of pretentious shit.
Thinking about bouncing around with short stories while I get my act together and figure out what exactly in the setting i want to write about.
It sucks.
Also fuck my setting for being so big and interesting never thought that would actually backfire on me.
>>47738669
I actually worried about your first point when I was writing it. I'm actually friends with a couple of published authors in my area and they've read my book, we figured that we got the introduction down enough to make it not feel like it drags after a few drafts.
As to your second point I deliberately left out a bunch of stuff from that so it's not really fair to call it a synopsis. I didn't really want to post the whole thing for obvious reasons. I'm fairly confident that my story does cover the things you've suggested, but obviously I'm probably biased.
>>47738639
I've never used Reddit, I'd have no idea where to start.
Hey guys, just thought I'd pop in here and gently cross-post to my spiel in a nearby thread.
>>47711733
We've had half-a-dozen submissions already, which is pretty amazing for only a few days of promoting ourselves. I hope you'll consider submitting something for glory and tiny amounts of cash!
>>47738120
You can always put independently release it for kindle anon. At least that way it will bring in something.
>>47738258
That sounds amazing.
I just hate myself for letting my insane setting become an unholy abomination due to the size and scope of it.
>>47738337
Write erase write erase. Eventually you'll get something that you don't hate.
>>47738714
>I didn't really want to post the whole thing for obvious reasons.
Ideas are cheap. Good artists have millions of their own that they never act on. Nobody's going to steal yours. And even if they did, so what? All they've got is your ideas, not your text. Any work they produce will invariably differ greatly from your own, by dint of not being written by you.
Besides, the measure of a good work is in the execution, not in ~ideas~.
>>47738733
That's interesting. It's already june though, what happens if you build up a huge backlog of stories?
>>47738733
I thought you were guna post again in /sffg/. Also I'm just finishing up the editing for mine now, will send in the next hour or so probably.
>>47738714
I'm not going to give you a tutorial on groupthink because it's exactly as horrible as you imagine.
As an alternative suggestion, send it to a reputable author to get their endorsement, or enter particularly good excerpts in a contest/anthology.
I know I'm just some anonymous fa/tg/uy, but I would love to write a glowing articulate review for you in order to generate some hype.
>>47738686
>Thinking about bouncing around with short stories while I get my act together and figure out what exactly in the setting i want to write about.
Don't write about your setting. Write about people. Tell me their desires, their goals, their dreams. Show me them struggling for what they want. Show me them achieving or failing their goals, decisively.
And for fuck's sake, don't hobble yourself by trying to adhere to your setting 100%. Tell the story you want to tell, and adjust the world to enable it. If you say the sun rises in the east, and there are verdant plains in the rain shadow of a mountain, who the fuck can tell you otherwise? No-one, that's who. In your world, you are God, and your word is law.
>>47738772
We've discussed the idea of buying stories in suspension for later issues, but at this point we'd be happy just to be able to field six great stories. That's kind of a 'bridge to be crossed when we come it' situation.
>>47738774
I was, but I'm waiting for the old thread to die first. I'm really conscious of spamming the boards I'm posting on and exhausting everyone of my presence. I'll probably post in every second or third thread until the start of August.
>>47738836
>>47738733
How do you guys do payment? paypal?
>>47738836
Ah okay. I'm emailing now. Mine's The Shadow Under the Ice. I hope you enjoy it, even if it's not successful.
>>47737605
Slowly. I've got all the elements there, I've got it plotted out to the end, I just keep wanting to rewrite the stuff I'm working on at that moment which means I haven't gotten past the prologue.
>>47738835
>rises in the east
...Or north, or west, or whatever.
Sorry, forgot which way the sun rises. My point still stands.
>>47737605
I really should be sleeping considering its 4 in the morning and I got prior engagements.
It's not going well. I pick up steam write a bit and move on to something else and most of the time it's not even writing. Just another hobby I found interesting.
For my current one I have characters, a few basic plots and I'm going to try to rewrite some of the first chapter if I have some freetime tomorrow.
It's basically a bunch of short stories, following individual members of a social media/gaming company's security force.
The stories aren't really all that violent and most of the confrontations are solved out by talking but the characters are all weirdos who don't really get the current generation they're in. It's not a criticism of the current generation, it's just they don't get it and most of them are already pretty odd in the head.
If I ever finish it I'm probably not going to try to get it published but I like it, or at least the idea of it and will at least try to get something done.
>>47738841
Yep! Considering the international nature of things (We pay in $US, but are are not in the US ourselves) we have to use PayPal as a safe go-between.
>>47738843
Thanks for submitting! Good luck! I hope you find our feedback useful in any case.
>>47738927
As I spend most of my free time writing proper novel-length stories feedback on my writing style is highly appreciated.
Where are you based?
>>47738927
Well 750 words isn't much. I should give it a shot then.
>>47738733
zero chance of me doing that to be honest
>>47738733
I'll give this a shot. Pick a topic and I'll write about it, then submit it later tonight.
Things I like:
>body horror
>noir
>sci-fi
Things I don't like:
>bumblegum romance
>fan fiction
Anything in the middle is fine with me.
>>47739023
Guy wakes up after a long night with a dragon head instead of his regular one. Short story about him dealing with it while having breakfast, not burning down his house, hiding it at work, etc
>>47739040
That's perfect, secretly I love Kafka. Thanks anon!
>>47738303
What you are grasping for? Is commonly called the beginning of a story. If you can't do that, you might want to try another hobby, one with lower confidence requirements.
>>47737605
>So /tg/, how's your novel coming along?
so many ideas
so little actual writing
And when I do write something it's never for a novel, just a short exercise. Then when I read it back all I can think is: could have been better
pic semi related, it's probably the best thing I've written in a while
>>47737605
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBG3zEEhAvw
I told my friends that I would release my novel as an ebook at some point last month. It's not released. I'm still proofreading and making small changes, adding just some more dialogue and little details to explain more. But I want to finish it so badly so I can concentrate on other projects.
>>47738686
>>47738686
I know those feels anon, I've been working on my pet project for months... but yet no actual story line.. histories yeah but not a story.
>>47738686
>>47739181
You guys need to realise that writing and worldbuilding are very different things. You can casually worldbuild while watching TV or browsing 4chan or half-chatting with your family. Writing is a more personal experience, and requires privacy and concentration.
Also, with worldbuilding, you're constantly going back to add more details or write new stuff. With a story, my strong advice is to not look back on it until you're done. Leave editing until the editing phase, which comes after the writing phase.
>>47738267
Magic """""""systems""""""" ruin the mystical feel
>>47739181
CHARACTERS.
GOALS.
CONFLICT.
RESOLUTION.
These are the building blocks of all drama, and all storytelling. If you do not ground your action in solid character motives, slam those motives into conflict, and then figure out who's left standing at the end, no-one will ever give a shit about your precious worldbuilding.
>>47738456
Change your magic system
>>47739274
I agree, I want to keep it mysterious. But there has to be some underlying consistency, especially since my plan was for the protagonist to learn it eventually.
>>47738267
https://pactwebserial.wordpress.com/
>>47739420
There are two hundred of those and I don't even like webcomics. You'll have to actually say why you linked it.
>>47737605
Novel? Y'mean campaign setting?
>>47739283
Stop systemising magic.
>>47739442
Not a webcomic. Pact's entire deal is that it's based around a magic system that's as far as someone can get from superpowers but remain internally consistent. If you are willing to read a novel that's around half the length of game of thrones and is also deliberately written in a way to make it a struggle to read, you will find what I consider to be the best magic system ever written.
>>47739282
CAPS LOCK IS CRUISE CONTROL FOR COOL!
thank you anons
>>47739199
I have a weird habit of researching everything... so I can/ have spent a few hours a week doing nothing but reading/world building
>>47739282
is it wrong to flesh out the world building before characters ? I kinda stated here >>47738377 why this is taking me forever ( although I admit I'm being an assburger perfectionist when it comes to details )
I do have a goals, conflict and half a resolution though
>>47738283 this is and will always be my main concern, hard sci fi audiences are super harsh of handwavium... plus Its a uncommon genre these days.
>>47739285
Take a look at Unknown Armies for some ideas about magic systems that don't seem at all "systematic".
>>47739471
Hmm I see, it's a series of short stories. I'd be willing to read it if it were printed, but I hate reading on my computer screen. I appreciate the suggestion, but is there a tl;dr anywhere?
>>47739482
If you're writing hard science fiction, you shouldn't use handwavium. The whole point of the genre is that its internal consistency is its main drawing card. It's like writing a psychological story but not having any character consistency.
>>47739508
Thanks, I'll look into it.
>>47739285
Remmber: outside of games magic is exactly one thing: A plot device. Consistency is good, but is actually not required, despite what /tg/ has brainwashed you into thinking. Internal inconsistency is perfectly acceptable and is a plot device all it's own (see P. Anthony's Xanth, Changeling and Madwand by Zelazney, The Shattered World by Michael Reaves, Harry Potter series, etc.
>>47739517
It's actually one long novel written on the internet, and there is not a tl;dr over the magic system since the whole thing is an exploration of how the magic works in action. It's difficult to explain and the story has the main character learning how it all works as a main component.
>>47739517
what would be the limits of tolerable handwavium in a galactic setting with aliens n shit ( I have ftl but its nerfed to the extreme )
>>47739520
Harry Potter series is exactly what I'm trying to avoid. There's no explanation of why Dumbledore is a good wizard. I mean you can say it's his bloodlines or his dedication, but I mean what does that give him?
If you're a good guitar player, it could be your long fingers or the hours of practice, but those things give you the ability to move your fingers quickly down the fretboard and pluck the right string without hitting any others. Surely there's more to it than saying the word right ("it's leviosa, not leviosa") and moving the wand correctly ("swish and flick"), or else Hermoine would be Voldemort's nemesis.
>>47739570
Well thanks for the suggestion. I wish I could say that I'll try and find the time to read it, but anything longer than a few thousand words is basically a no unless I can pick it up from a bookstore.
>>47739579
I don't know m8, I haven't read your story. Even in non-hard sci fi, it's good practice to set up later developments so they don't come off as deus ex machina. If we need to hand wave away a smaller ship beating a larger ship, it's better to say earlier in the story that the larger ship was experiencing technical difficulties or that the smaller ship's captain is an experienced space combat fighter than to say that they simply fought harder or something. It rewards the reader rather than frustrating them.
>>47739622
>>47739520
Sorry, I got sidetracked talking about how much I hate Harry Potter magic. Lord of the Rings is a better example: magic is still mystical in that, but the internal consistency is that it's given to the wizards by higher beings and they're entrusted not to use it to alter the sequence of events in the world. The other end of the scale is Eragon, where the magic system is basically mathematical and it's all about where he gets his mana from.
I'd like something like Lord of the Rings, where it's mystical, but it still has to make sense, especially if my protagonist learns it. I don't think that consistency is not required, and that such an approach would alienate the protagonist from the reader because he can suddenly just do whatever he wants on some occasions but not others.
>>47739622
oh there's none of that handwavium ( plot armour )
I was talking about tech handwavium ( things that cant exist )
>>47739639
And that's fine too.
Just don't get bogged down in trying to figure out the mechanics of it.
>>47739647
Well like I said it's your story, I can't know what you're talking about specifically. In my experience, the best approach is the Star Trek one where you explain away the holes with some fantasy invention like dilithium. If your space weapon couldn't actually work under contemporary science, say that it was made to work after the discovery of unobtanium. That said, hard science fiction should really try to be grounded in contemporary science, so it depends how set you are on keeping with the hard sci fi trope.
>>47739654
But when I have to write how he learns it, how do I do that without knowing how it works? What makes one magic user stronger than another?
>>47739681
really the only things that aren't possible yet are FTL/warp drive (but still a reliance on very slow sublight engines) , artificial gravity/inertia dampeners (the later im still debating whether they are even needed in most ships )
Are bio ships a step too far?
>>47739482
Do the exact mechanics of how your space-bullshit works have any bearing on the central conflict of your story, and its eventual resolution?
No? Then it doesn't fucking matter, and you shouldn't waste your time worrying about it, or explaining it to the audience.
>>47739766
Well I'm just an anon, but I think bioships are fine, though personally I'd like to know how they came to be. Obviously no life that we know of can survive long in space, so for a species to evolve in space it'd have to have very different characteristics to what we presently call life.
As for the FTL and artificial gravity, there are very realistic modern scientific proposals for those, have you considered using them?
Remember that these things should only be explained in the first place if they're actually relevant to the plot. This is a story, not an encyclopedia, so not all of it will be necessary to explore in depth.
I think FTL is something you're expected to make up shit for. It's better if you use things that have been explored by scientists before like wormholes but it's not necessary to put too much thought into it.
Of course if you want to write about the logistics of a space empire operating with no FTL I bet that'd be a really cool story to tell.
>>47739769
QUITE A LOT ACTUALLY....
>>47739783
bio ships are coral like "plants" that live in and around the metal shell of a ship, and they need flesh and sunlight to survive ( basically useless to actually travel anywhere )
I have actually been looking at the artificial gravity proposals the past hour or so.
thanks anons your help is appreciated
>>47739622
Read anything by Brandon Sanderson. His characters might not be the best thing ever, but his worldbuilding is always on point and the guy is known for his magic systems.
>>47739792
actually there is such an empire in my setting ( they are the ones with bio ships)
>>47739861
Thanks, I'm a /sffg/ regular so he's been on my list for a while. I'll make him a priority.
>>47739860
>QUITE A LOT ACTUALLY....
If by "quite a lot", you mean "I'm using my worldbuilding notes to determine how the central conflict of your story is resolved, instead of deciding what kind of story I want to tell first and then building a world to justify it", you're doing it wrong.
>>47740048
If you start with the kind of feeling or emotion that you want your story to evoke, then work backwards from there, your work will be vastly more compelling, both to write and to read.
>Forgot to put this in the linked post
I can't focus on fleshing out one thing.
I'll write about 1000 words or more pertaining to a region or organization within my world and then I'll drop it and go to something else.
So at the moment I have loads of stuff started in my novel but nothing finished through and through .
>>47737605
Waiting for my friend to finish reading it so we can discuss whether yet another revision is warrented. Im on the side saying "fuck it, send it out and keep these changes for working with an actual edittor"
>>47740084
Once again, characters and motives are the real draws in a story, not the ~deep lore~. Do any of the regions/organisations in your world have anything to do with the plot you have in mind? Do you even have a plot in mind, in the first place?
Figure out what kind of story you want to tell first, then build the world and characters to suit.
>>47740084
Yep, I know that feeling
>>47737605
>the worldbuilding is dope, y'all
>haven't even started actually writing the story
Sounds like /tg/, all right.
Just start writing. If you're not happy with something then change it in the next draft.
>>47740121
Currently got two plot lines set up
One revolving around a dying order of Rip and Tear Paladins holding against a massive incursion of Demons in the far north of the world and their attempts to unite all mortalkind against the coming Legions.
Simultaneously the Kingdoms,which make up a majority of mortalkinds people's, that were born from a millennia old Empire are all about to fight over who has rightful class over the old Imperial throne.
I'm currently away from home and thus away from my character and faction sheets so that's all I can say about it right now off the top of my head.
>>47741691
So, when can we expect the next book, Mr. R. R. Martin?
>>47741838
Don't know.
Now that you say it holy shit what am I doing I'm making GoT with more magic.
Goddammit imma kill myself.
>>47741944
Originality is overrated. Execution is what matters.
And frankly, if you write your story with plotlines and characters that actually go places, instead of following Martin's example and killing off characters randomly for ~shock value~, your work will be infinitely better than Game of Thrones.
>>47737605
>>47737967
>>47738202
>>47738686
Reminder intense focus on worldbuilding is the absolute worst way to ever actually get a story written.
Put those history outlines away and start working on characters and stories, /tg/.
>>47742013
Finally! Someone who agrees with me!
>>47742013
No. Now put those characters away, we need to discuss argriculture.
>>47742057
>setting has industrial revolution
>but no potatoes
>mfw
>>47742080
>setting has potatoes
>but no Americas
>>47742057
>Agriculture
Why the fuck would I waste time on that? What's really important is discussing how in my setting, one thousand years ago on the continent of Araketh--on the other side of hte world from where my story is set--the Knights of the Last Sun worked together to dispel the evil Man'ar Demons from the land and found the Great Ezerali Empire.
>>47741998
Know what. You're right. I think I'm gonna change a few things so it's not blindingly similar.
But I've put this much into it might as well finish it regardless of success.
If anything it'll be more experience.
>>47741998
>instead of following Martin's example and killing off characters randomly for ~shock value~
Confirmed for never actually reading the books.
>>47742103
Forget world history, what's really important is nailing down the underlying particle physics that govern the properties of matter in my setting!
Also all my characters are illterate peasants, who never interact with anyone who can read.
>>47742160
Don't forget to articulate those particle physics into a complex magic system.
But there's only one major magic-user and she just thinks it's blood magic or some shit.
>>47742013
What if they're intertwined. For instance:
>want one character to be French destroyer captain during the war
>well gee, what trials and tribulations will he be encountering during the war
>time to chart out what the broader naval campaign that'll be going on in the war and his arc within it
Obviously that's a cherry picked example but in a setting that revolves around not only an alternate-history setting but a war scenario as well, I don't see how you can't worldbuild a bit just to establish what in the fuck is going on in the war that the character has to struggle against.
>>47742289
Nigger there's a difference between worldbuilding for consistency and worldbuilding just because you like writing timelines.
And honestly, even in your example you don't need that much fucking detail. Most of the time when you have some kind of veteran character, all you really need to reference is "The War" and maybe a few specific snapshots of his time in it.
The cause, politics, and ins-and-outs of this war aren't really relevant to this character and unless he fucking started it.
>>47737605
Does it involve the I Ching in any way?
>You're dead, Horselover Fat. What you think is you is just a robot simulacrum, writing the same novel over and over again.
>>47742398
That's how you end up with generic cliche characters. "I was in the War, man. Really messed me up. I have flashbacks."
>>47742289
This is how you get interesting, original characters. Map that shit out in detail. Doesn't mean you have to _describe_ the whole naval campaign to your readers, but you should have a character and world bible for yourself, the author, to really get into the backgrounds and motivations of characters, which are built on experiences that occurred in that world.
>>47737605
Finished my first draft at about 120,000 words. Just going back and editing with a friend whos good at that shit. Its taking forever because god damn, I hate editing.
Its a fantasy story with were-creatures. Specifically there is a war going on between werelions and werewolves. The focus is in what is essentially a concentration camp for werelions.
>>47742160
>>47742103
You stupid son of a bitch. Do you even grasp how important agriculture is to history of nations? Shit bitch I bet you don't even know about the Columbian Exchange.
>>47742492
>he thinks spending all your time writing world bibles is good writing advice.
Less is more, anon. All that time you're spending mapping out this campaign or that war is time you're not spending writing an actual story. You should have an idea of what happened, but writing timelines all the time just because you think it'll help you avoid "generic cliche characters" is an uphill battle.
>>47742398
The book is setting during the war, so everything within it featuring him is going to be snapshots of him during the war.
>>47742469
God no. As much as I like Man in the High Castle the stuff with the I Ching gets a bit silly to me at times.
>>47742492
While I wouldn't say you're guaranteed to fall into generic tropes with that approach, being conscious of not falling into such genericness is always important.
And obviously yeah, I'm not going to be showcasing every aspect of the naval campaign or going so far as to detail the exact sizes of each navy, but I need to know the basics of what'd be going on so that whatever does get shown to the readers makes sense/has some consistency.
>>47742724
Fair points though. There needs to be some sort of map but making it too needlessly detailed will just be taking time away from actually writing, finding that balance is what's tricky. Go too in-depth and the book might as well just be the campaign map/details alone.
>>47742289
Of course that's fine. No-one ever said "don't worldbuild". We said "figure out what elements of the world actually impact your character's struggles, and focus on developing those parts exclusively".
The who, what, why and where of a war are all fair game if you're writing a character who is knee-deep in it. It's not so much if you're writing a character who lives three centuries later, on a different continent altogether, with no ties or interest in a old, foreign war.
Worldbuilding kills.
>>47743896
Honestly I've never been good at worldbuilding.
I just say fuck it and hope the people reading are dumb.
>>47742880
This is exactly the problem I have with the Malazan series. Half the time I feel it's Steven Eriksen giving me either a.) a lecture on philosophy or b.) a lesson in history about people and worlds I have no vested interest in. His philosophical ramblings are at least interesting. His history lessons? Less so.
>tfw writing murder mystery/political intrigue and knowing nobody's gonna publish it because it's fantasy
>>47747167
You're living in 2016.
There are numerous publishing houses these days that will publish anything that looks like it could appeal to the new wave of nerds and if Glen Cook could do it back in the 80s you can do it now.
>>47747384
Can you rec a few? I've had nothing but turnbacks so far.
>>47737605
>tfw you've been working on a detailed industrial weird fantasy world for months
>you have no idea what the plot is
>>47742013
>>47741625
>>47740121
>>47740069
>>47742880
Hard sci fi anon here, thank you for the advice anons. I got some proper shit done.
>>47740048
not so much that, more so the tech/math stuff if you get my drift..
>>47747508
bump
>>47737605
I write short stories. They are going well, I'd post them here if I thought anyone cared
>>47749765
what kind of short stories?
I don't write nearly enough, but nanowrimo at least gets me working on long-format stuff on a regular basis.
I'm supposed to be writing a short story right now, though. I'm doing a competition with my group of writing friends.
I haven't written in years, but I had a dream that took my fancy. A guy waking up from a bed, surrounded by others. Meeting a woman. Realizing he had been woken up into a futuristic post-apocalyptic society. Then slowly realizing that something is wrong, that the society as it is shouldn't function, or at least makes no sense in how it came about. Over time inconsistencies pile up until he realizes he may be living inside someone's play thing. Then as he discoveries what actually happened in the days (or months) leading up to being frozen he has to discover where and what he is.
The original dream had a female controlled society with an entirely servile male population. An issue with continuously getting ill due to unfreezing, and a woman who was trying to reason with me that the society was broken and I had to fix it.
>>47738258
where can I read this? I red pen if you need that also
>>47737605
Struggling with coming up with all my power players. Need 16 demigod level characters rolling around and I've only been able to flesh out the abilities of 12 of them. Personalities are quite the trick also.
Also don't have a fucking clue where the story goes after the first act. I have a good conflict set up for the MC to get right into, but after that's resolved I don't know how I'm going to string together a series of Highlander-on-steroids fights.
Also struggling with populating the world. Have most of my fae race written up (still needs expanding but I like what I have so far, and there isn't that much room left to fill). Have the start of a gyphon culture, also working on some lizardmen and minotaurs who I think are neat, but I want more than that. It's supposed to be a hopped up fairy tail world, it should be weird. I'm just not sure what to put in it.
>>47741998
believe it or not, most people in the book actually don't die for shock value, and have credible reasons for dying. maybe you should stop watching hack n hack's weekly GoT fanfiction on HBO.
>>47741998
I can't actually think of any characters in the Song of Ice and Fire series who only die for shock value. Examples?
>>47742013
Trick is... How the world is oriented is important for me to figure out. I need to know what my power players are doing while the MC is off fighting Wannabe Death. Figuring out the power players is just as important, ofc, but I need to figure out what there is for them to do at the same time.
>>47737605
>Title: TRIUMVIRATE
>Synopsis: A beast becomes the first ever nonhuman to ever read, write, and learn magic, becoming the first nonhuman imperial archmage, and it couldn't have happened at a worse time. With the assassination of the Imperator, the Imperium faces collapse as the Consuls fight for power. This first literate beast, known as the Archbeast, finds himself thrust into the center of the world stage as the nonhumans view him to be their messiah while the Consuls seek to manipulate to sway the nonhumans towards their own ends. Everything hinges on the Imperator's cryptic last word: triumvirate.
Well it's been a few months since the first draft was completed (it's important to put these things away between drafts to rest your mind), but I'm really excited to start the second because I have taken beta reader feedback into account and devised the ways to correct the problems. Beyond those revisions, this draft will focus more on emphasizing the themes and atmosphere of the story. In particular I want to truly establish the simplistic and literal speaking patterns of the nonhuman races with the more metaphorical dialogue of humanity, while emphasizing in vocabulary what makes each race unique. Also I need to add more dilapidation and broken-ness to the world, because civilization in it is on a downward slide.
>>47737605
"maybe my children's fantasy novel has too much cosmic horror"
>>47751011
You should figure out who the final battle is between, then build the story to lead to that. You can't plot a route very easily if you don't know what your destination even is.
>>47738258
>Clockwork Dames
>weird mystery surreal horror with "ambiguous-punk" elements
Sounds pretty fuggin nice.
Hire an editor and publish it on Kindle. If that takes off publishers will be killing themselves trying to obtain physical publishing rights from you.
See Andy Weir.
>>47737605
Technically done, I've been going through it for the last ten months slowly rooting out plot holes and rewriting weak parts. I have some issues with pacing, and I am becoming unsure of the style I used. I tried to be succinct, but in places the text seems too dry, as if court official is following the characters along and notarizing their daily activities.
>>47752131
>Hire an editor and publish it on Kindle. If that takes off publishers will be killing themselves trying to obtain physical publishing rights from you.
Some publishers won't touch anything that has already been released. They want total, exclusive rights. I know because they told me.
>>47737605
Can't get my head around proper formatting. I hate computer word programs so I just use a typewriter. But my publicist has been getting on my ass to switch because it would help the younger people under him with my work.
Schmuck.
>>47737605
>tfw you have 120 pages of "worldbuilding" which is 40% technical readouts, 40% history, and 20% unfinished character profiles for 60+ major and minor characters
>And 3 drafts of the story that you started and abandoned because you couldn't write a good beginning
Should I give up?
>>47752817
Plow through the beginning and come back later. If you have it in you to be a writer, you get better as you go.
>>47752827
I tried that and skipped ahead, but then I look back and wonder just how do I get from point A to point B.
>>47752844
I wrote a 1-3 paragraph synopsis of every chapter, beginning to end, before I started trying to flesh things out. Then the highlights and major plot points, items, characters, and conflicts were already known.
>>47752817
No don't give up anon
What's it about that you need 120 pages of world building
>>47752883
That sounds like a good plan.
>>47752768
You're right, but if the story is *really* successful, publishers will take the hit to get in on the cash train. They'd probably offer to buy the online-rights from you too, it's happened before.
Of course, this is assuming you're really really successful, don't get too hyped, but also don't let your dreams be dreams etc
>>47752908
I just wantedto make a Western Gundam-style story, and I loved going into detail on the mechanical data and history of the setting so that the actual space colony rebellions made sense, instead of Spacenoids murdering 8 billion people because Nazis.
>>47752910
Well, I finished the book, and it ended almost the way that I intended from the beginning. Ended up with some extra chapters in the middle because as I went a plot developed a life of its own and I wrote in another protagonist. Book would have sucked without it.
Struggling to decide on what age I'm shooting for. I want to make it for young teens, but I also want to include references to drug dealing and sexuality.
>>47752926
I understand anon I've done something similar.
Make a series of shortish stories and have them intertwine at your will
>>47741998
The only ASoIaF death that was "shocking" was Neds, and that wasn't even done for shock value. It established Joffery's character and set in motion events that are still happpening and being revealed.
>>47742179
>Have complex magic system worked out in my head.
>Based off of a system I made up for a homebrew that never happened.
>Even have exerpts from textbooks on magic written out.
>Only one magic user character.
>Will likely never get to explore the system deeply.
Oh well. If I get famous, maybe I'll pull a Rowling and release the textbooks if I start to lose relevance.
>>47747167
If the first Dresden Files book got published in 2000, you can do it now.PEACE TALKS WHEN BUTCHER
>>47751355
Sounds fun, Anon. Who's the main character(s)? Would you tell us what Triumverate means, or do you want to keep it under wraps? What age are you writing for?
>>47752988
Robb's death was sort of shocking.Arya getting offed like that was a shock, I'm surprised George wasted so much time on her story. And I didn't see Jon getting knifed immediately at the end of book 5, I figured that'd be later.
>>47753023
>Saw Robbs death coming chapters ahead.
It's fair enough, since a lot of peope skip Cat's chapters, but she spent a good 3 chapters doing nothing but telling Robb that Frey can't be trusted, that he's too proud, you've betrayed him, he'll betray you. I'd have been more shocked if he wasn't killed.>Arya
Unless you're talking about that fakeout death at The Twins,I assume you're talking about the show. I don't watch, but I heard there was something shocking about Arya going on.>Jon
Hope he stays dead in the books, desu. Worst Lord Commander ever. I'm not even talking about letting the wildlings in, but forsaking his vows because of the pink letter was terrible. he deserved everrything that happened.
>>47753052John forsaking his vows isn't entirely his own fault. The Night's Watch needs support and there's no way he'd get it from the Boltons even if he was loyal. So why not be disloyal?Aryafails to kill her first target in the show and tries to flee to Westeros because she meets a kind actress in a play about Joffrey's reign. She gets knifed in the uterus by the show's "Waif" character and falls into a dirty sewer.
Walder Frey did the right thing, I always thought. And he had a great scene in the episode last week.
>>47753081That's a pretty big deviation from the books. The Mercy chapter from TWoW that Gurm released shows Arya murdering her target pretty effectively, and I think it's implied that it's nowhere near her first target.I've just always hated Jon. Partly because of all the R+L=J rabid theorists online, mostly because of who he is as a person. Has the show now released him from his vows because he technically died?
Frey absolutely did the right thing. Can't have a king who thinks solely with his dick, especially since it's totally accceptable to fuck who you want once your wife gets pregnant with a boy.
>>47753130
Anyway, we're gumming up the thread with ASoIaF talk now. Thanks Anon, it's been fun.
>>47753130
Arya kills in Dance of Dragons, remember? The old ship insurer. That was the test.She failed that equivalent in the show and instead hired a ship to take her back to Westeros.
>>47751355
You synopsis is missing a crucial piece of information: who the fuck is the main character, and what do they want?
I don't give a damn how unprecedented this nonhuman mage is, or whether the "Imperium" is collapsing. Is the Archbeast the main character? What do they want? Do they want to be the messiah? Do they want to help the Consuls? Do they just want to be left alone?
The whole point of political fiction is the collision of multiple conflicting characters' goals. That idea falls apart instantly if the main character has no goals of their own.
>>47737605
I'm still struggling to get that "thing" that makes a setting go from generic to interesting.
Like how everybody in The Witcher is alien,how TES is just a dream
Without it,everything is lost
>>47753458
Literature snobs do have a point in that genre fiction tends to channel George Lucas a lot. Don't do that. Setting is a prop, no one will care how awesome it is if the characters are flat and unbelievable and the plot fails to captivate.
>>47749765
I care
>>47753458
>Without it,everything is lost
Actually, if you bet everything on a setting gimmick, everything is lost. The Witcher sells itself on extremly fun and well flowing dialogues and very funny and likable characters, as well as overall sense of irony, self-awareness and fuckton of references and in-jokes. Nobody really cares about the actual lore of the world, and nobody cared about the politics until the games came.
Similarly, TES sells itself on the fact that it's interactive and putting the lore together is an involved activity rather than a passive dump. It works for a game, but not for a novel.
A novel needs good plot, and that usually (though not ALWAYS) means good characters. Good style helps a lot too.
The by-weekly story-threads helped me a lot since the last fall - I started writing fairly regularly, started sharing my works and getting feedback, first here on /tg/, later on among my friends, colleagues and even some literary critics.
My first goal: a collection of micro-stories is reaching the point where I'm starting to think of it as more-or-less concluded, and now I'm trying to move on with my other goals:
A) bitter-sweet adolescent novel with fairytale and mythological elements, taking place simultaneously in Prague and Tokyo, telling two parallel stories of two siblings. I have the plot laid out, started writing character sketches and small exercises to play with the tone and the form of the narrative. This one will take a while to finish, I don't believe it will be done anywhere in the next few year.
B) a "mosaic" medium-length story borrowing set in Japanese country-side, intended to be combination of absurd, magical and slightly horror themes - I have roughly 16 pages of individual "fragments", but I'm terribly stuck right now.
C) a children adventure-fairytale story book, mainly intended to be dedicated to my youngest sibling. I have mostly just basic groundwork - some core characters, premise, not much anything else.
We'll see where things will go. I haven't been actively writing for almost a decade, revisiting it is a big deal for me, and it mostly happened thanks to /tg/.
>>47753022
Enokus Runewright is the "Archbeast," a pussy-ass cat who, having achieved his entire purpose of existing by becoming an archmage, has no idea what to do next. Unfortunately for him, society collapses literally an hour after he finds out he's an archmage. He finds himself on a personal journey across the Imperium trying to prove himself worthy of all the attention heaped on him. He's somewhat paranoid and a hypochondriac on account of nearly his entire family of equally-gifted beasts clearly getting murdered by the gods for being crimes against nature. Pic related.
Orra the Goblin: A somewhat loud young goblin inadvertently responsible for Enokus becoming an archmage, she is infinitely more practical than he is and takes herself on as his spy and all-around informant--or she would if he had anyone he wanted to spy on. Mostly she spends her time trying to get him to stop being an academic pussy...cat and actually effect some positive change on the Imperium.
Pentalum the Gladius: A brutal no-nonsense mage who specializes in getting shit done. Everyone hates him (subjecting Enokus and Orra to an inexplicable bureaucratic strip-search doesn't help) but he's the only thing in the world keeping Enokus alive.
As for Triumvirate it refersto the Imperator's assassins, the other three-pieces of the God of Cruelty, who wanted to re-merge with him.
>>47753332
Actually he doesn't have a goal because it's the equivalent of a punk with a phd suddenly being a serious contender for president. He is utterly confused and totally unworthy of the position thrust upon him, and although the summary is accurate this is not a politics-style story.
>writing mini stories about other places in the setting
>because I'm too terrible at writing to tackle the main story
just fuck my shit up
>>47754442
Bash them all together and release "Collected Short Stories in the World of X" for 99 cents on kindle.
Get you and others hyped for your main story.
>>47754461
>hyped
I'm not so sure it'll do that ;___;I'll rewrite them all before I release them I guess
>>47741998
Every death in GoT was done to establish some form of plot or character. No one falls off their hourse and dies, no one gets a bad flue and dies, they all die *for a reason* even if its an ignoble death
>>47754475
There's a guy hanging around /lit/ and /tg/ collecting short stories for a magazin or something, send him one and use that as advertising to rope people into buying your collection
>>47737605
Shut up, sit down and write.
>>47754575
>There's a guy hanging around /lit/ and /tg/ collecting short stories for a magazin or something, send him one and use that as advertising to rope people into buying your collection
The Bard Quarterly thing? Yeah, it actually seems legit. He's hanging around the Storyfag thread right now, if I'm not mistaken.
What's the most overt "author's fetish" moment in any fantasy book you've read?
>>47754442
Just write what you're excited to write right now. Chances are you won't care about the idea later on, so you might as well wring as much experience out of it as you can get.
>>47752131
I think my biggest hurdle with that issue is I have no idea how to self-promote.
>>47754401
> he doesn't have a goal
This is bad
> because it's the equivalent of a punk with a phd suddenly being a serious contender for president.
And this is a bad reason for it.
Every character should have a goal, even if it's just some vague, long term thing like "survive".
People like characters who do things and have reasons for doing them. No one wants to read a story which is just one long story of some schmuck staring like a deer in the headlights while things happen to him.
>>47755138
the entire torture arc in sword of truth
>>47757836
How so?
>>47755138
The entirety of the book Titan. It's science fiction, but still
>Futa centaurs
>Impregnation that serves no story purpose and doesn't get carried to term
>Unnecessary lesbianism that conflicts horribly with the characterization(and I'm always about lesbians, this was just bad)
Don't read it.
>>47755138
The furry sex scenes in The Magicians and The Magician King.
Ok, so, in an aristocratic society, people who earn their titles on the field of battle rather than inheriting it have the right to stick "Lance" in front of their title.
So, "Lance-Baroness of Sapphire Shoal"
Is this cool?
>>47758398
Yes. But why "lance"?
>>47737605
I have 117 pages of outline done for the first installment of my series. Characters are fleshed out, Plot is written out so no stupid loopholes. It's looking pretty good I'd say.
Now i just have to write the real thing.
>>47758398
Sounds fine, as long as you work it in a way other than explicitly saying "The Lance-Baroness earned earned her title through valor on the battlefield" in your prose.
Too many writers use actual narration to describe pointless details the characters have no way of knowing.
>>47758428
To add on this, what is everyone's opinion on Giant, ancient Laser cannons in a fantasy setting?
>>47758460
As long as they are installed on some kind of Imperial Knight...
>>47758460
Shouldnt be a huge deal, I would just avoid the word "laser". Just say it spits out beams of hammer lightning or something like that.
>>47758495
technically it's channeling the divine energies of a captured God
>>47758427
It comes from the days of armored cavalry, when titles were literally won at the tip of a lance.
>>47758428
>117 page outline
Jesus fuck dude. I thought my 20 page outline was excessive
>>47758512
Neat. Sounds cool anon. Sounds like its got some great potential. Just dont say the word "laser".
>>47756821
No shit. It's a synopsis on 4chan, not a friggin query letter. I'm stating the premise, not pitching a manuscript. The whole story is about this character's personal transformation, but forgive me if I want to communicate the premise.
>>47758460
>>47758512
>>47758428
ok, I'm curious. What's this about? Just give me a basic overlay
>>47738303
>How does a crew of thieves keep their shit together? The danger level is through the fucking roof due to them about to rob a Dragon, who is also a sorcerer, who is also the unquestioned Grorious Reader of an entire nation. How can I get them to not just immediately NOPE out and snitch on the others? At least too much so as to ruin the heist?
read The Lies of Locke Lamora
>>47758556
>this salt
If you communicate your story elements and premises better people won't get the wrong idea, brochacho.
>>47737605
I write in quasi-monthly installments for an audience of exactly 38 people. I just killed off the fan-favourite protag and now I just have to wait for that number to plummet.
>>47758632
bump
>mfw signing up for kindle direct publishing
I will do something wrong, the taxmen will be knocking on my door soon.
>>47758428
Damn it George, just finish Ice and Fire first.
>>47758730
NEVER
I'm completely in love with my setting. I daydream both worldbuilding and character driven stories for it constantly. I've been working on a RPG for it over the past four years.
But the RPG is still only a skeleton, and all the actual writing of done amounts to a handful of short stories made in short bursts of motivation, maybe 20,000 words combined over the course of 4-5years, not counting rpg mechanics and world-building documentation (of which there isn't much either).
I've shown the short stories to various friends, and all say my writing is great, but then again they are my friends.
I just don't have any motivation. Part of it is run of the mill laziness, sure, yet I'm not a lazy person when it comes to any other part of my life.
I'm not proud enough to be motivated by the undertaking alone. Even if I say I love fiction, that gives me no incentive to put my own fiction into words. I love entertaining, but my time and effort feels better spent being a better friend or GM than pouring hours every day into creating works that I have neither faith nor reason to believe will ever reach or be appreciated by a significant number of people. Really, I'm not even sure why its such a big deal, not everyone needs to try to make something out of their daydreams, and most people are perfectly happy never writing significantly after school, even if they love reading.
But obviously the fact that I've written this much means that I do care, for some reason, and that just makes the whole thing kinda pathetic. This thread has been pretty uplifting, I'll probably end up doing another short story after this post because I'm feeling uncharacteristically amped. I'll probably not finish it, it will probably sit unfinished for about two months, but then I'll get another burst of motivation and it will eventually get done. As long as I do that much I can at least keep pretending there will be an actual novel one day, until I either decide its better to let go or step up.
Decently. I'm essentially novelizing a Call of Cthulhu one shot I've designed and run a couple of times now. My characters feel fleshed out and the flow of event A to event B feels natural and smooth. I'm currently working through the snowflake structure, somewhere in the middle of turning a six paragraph synopsis into a six page synopsis.
>>47758730
GRRM working hard on the latest book.
>>47758631
sure, sorry for the delay.
>Set in a fantasy world the inhabitants are currently living in an era of unprecedented peace under an agreement made between Man and the Gods known as The Pact. The Pact dictates that in exchange for the five continents of the world remaining isolated from each other the Gods will ensure that peace is maintained across the land. To do this they would occasionally send down beings known as Scions. It's the job of the Scions to help prevent or stop any event that might bring the world into turmoil. The most recent crisis being the uniting of several small, impoverished nations into a larger nation known as "The Union". Under a despotic leader The Union now sets their sights on their neighbors of Selvia, Kartusia and Xella The main character, a Scion named Sara, is one such Scion. However she is ambushed by an unknown force upon arriving on Earth and looses her memory and her knowledge of being a Scion. She is found by a Selvian Peasant and new soldier named Isaac. Now with the help of Isaac, a disgraced Kartusian knight and a Unionist Mercenary she must unlock her memories and discover her purpose before the Union throws the region into chaos or worse, the destruction of The Pact itself.
also, some fun spoilers.Sara and the Mercenary fall in love. However, the Mercenary is the person that Sara was supposed to kill. He eventually becomes Emperor of the Union and begins a world war that results in the pact being broken
It's come to a grinding halt.
I hadn't even started writing and it's already fallen apart.
I've been world-building a mid-fantasy world(aka, I just took the Eurasian and middle east landmasses and added magiks and fucked the history a bit), but now I think it's too uninteresting.
Like, oh, sure, it's like the real world. That's it. I need some sort of gimmick(lack of a better word) but I can't think of anything. I just want to write stories in a world that's basically The Witcher, Hyboria, and Warhammer Fantasy all mixed together.
Hell, an anon even drew a map for me. But now it's worthless because I'm redesigning the whole world.
Fuck me.
>>47760282
What's the main threat? I just created a main threat first for my story and built around that.
>>47760299
There is none. The closest thing to that would've been the god-men from a million years ago but they're only in the setting to provide ANCIENT RUINS and MAGICAL ARTIFACTS. Like the Dwemer.
I just want to write medieval war stories and political bullshittery.
>>47760328
>I just want to write medieval war stories and political bullshittery.
that's fine, but you still need some underlying issue that causes this. Maybe people are fighting to declare themselves the successor to an ancient Empire?
>>47760282
It doesn't look exactly the same but you might consider getting lawsuits from GW.
>>47760091
sounds neat.
would we ever find out what that "unknown force" is or is that just some bullshit to cause her memory loss?
>>47760362
the reasons change. The world is going to start out in a sort ancient greece; Alexander the Great era. From there, it's going to enter the viking age(but the vikings are 3 meters tall and celtic), moves onto the medieval era, then goes onto early modern era(like pike and shotte era), then, the last era I've thought of is the napoleonic era, but with cyberpunk vibes. Except it's not cyber but steam. Like Thief, I guess.
I just want to write epic histories and shit. I think I'll just write fag random things for now.
>>47760392
yes. The "unknown Force" is actually the main villain of the story. see below for spoilers in case you careIt's a man named Tiderius who turns out to be the very first Scion. he betrayed the Gods thousands of years ago for plot reasons I don't want to get into and is currently backing the Union to get revenge on The Gods.
>>47760428
I don't recommend taking a specific region and going through such a wide range of time and social changes. make multiple settings if you want to do that. Otherwise you'd have to connect past events in some fashion and how they effect the current time's customs and traditions
>>47760454
>...connect past events in some fashion and how they effect the current time's customs and traditions
And that's what I love about history. It's ever evolving; ever changing. It's fascinating and I want my setting to be like that.
I want the reader to hear a passing reference to a event that happened two hundred years ago and say "Hey! I remember that from the last book!"
I dislike the stagnation of fantasy in terms of cultural and technological. It's just weird to me.
>>47760492
If that's the route you want to go I suggest you read the Foundation Series by Asimov. He has huge times skips
>>47760431
sounds cool. Hope you actually finish it.
>>47752065
I actually have that part vaguely plotted out. I even have most of the epilogue figured out unless I decide to undo a particular character's death. The trick is just getting there.
I have begun and abandoned six different writing projects in the last year. They make it to anywhere from 50 to 200 pages, then that great old Crippling Self-doubt rears its head, and I surrender. I just can't help but veer towards the "conceptual" and "painting the medium", and there's this voice in my head that lays down with unshakable certainty the fact that my work is not only pretentious, but a shallow and vapid kind of pretentious that doesn't even have anything to say.
This belongs on >>>/lit/.
I'm writing a story about an arranged marriage between two families set in a old age mythological notJapan. Its rather slow and pondering and deals a lot with politics and culture and what the characters think about situations and the reasons behind them. Not sure how long it will end up as so I can't really call it a novel.
Its almost like a writing exercise to me, since usually my stories are rather energetic and full of life and excitement. This one is mostly very somber and has many self imposed rules on it that makes it sometimes difficult to write. But I still feel it has potential. Maybe there is an audience who likes to read boring stuff.
>>47762325
>Maybe there is an audience who likes to read boring stuff.
Hey, the Culture novels did well so you should be fine.
>>47762421
And if the story even breaks 100 pages. I have only envisioned the wedding and the events before and after it, but just that does not really go to novel lengths. Thusfar I have just called it a short story.
>>47762462
Why not combine it with another story to break the dry, political stuff up? Like, thread in some more action-heavy plot with another character so you alternate chapters, and then the two plots start interacting.
>>47762325
Why does the one on the left wear the mask?
>>47762462
The word you're looking for is "novella".
>>47762495
I just really want to make this entire chunk of nothing but dry, political stuff and see how it turns out. I usually write so flashy stuff that I wanted to test my limits by doing something really far from my comfort zone.
I mean, in this story I havent even described how someone has huge boobs yet and that is a trope in my writings.
>>47762503
I had completely forgotten that term. It is going to turn up as a novella for sure with this rate. Thanks friend.
>>47737605
I will never make it... Because of my inability to grasp even basic concepts of english language and fact, that I love to write short stories about obscure strange horror/fantasy/sci-fi and every possible combination, I will never make it in my country, therefore, never make it outside... sigh
Anybody interested in a young magus who needs to defeat the ancient Clockwork God who sees humanity as a mistake? Fighting against the races loyal to Him, the rocky Parva and varied Alfar? In space?
Or a young monkey man in Monkey Kingdom who tries to find meaning in life after his single mother dies, and ends up the only survivor of a shipwreck after taking up sailing as his first real job and has to make it back home from a strange land?
Or an urban fantasy about a half-angel girl who ends up finding out that "God" is dead or at least gone and then elopes with a half-"demon"? With a minor focus on small-unit tactics a la Twig?
I've got so many god-damned ideas.
There was a point where I was churning out five pages a day of, if not great, decent material. Now I don't know how to want to write again.
Bleah. Maybe I'll submit something to Bard Quarterly. See if I can't start it up once more.
