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Saw spoiler in the old thread and was enraged by how much of a retarded pussy leto is in blood of kings, hence
>>47578113
Absolutely. There's actually a scene in Blood of Kings when he finds out the Empress has double crossed him and his response is.
>But she's a Morrowan!
And everyone else in the room kind of stops for a reason to try and figure that shit out, before they go back to dealing with the situation.
>>47578705
To be fair, the whole issue of Leto being too nice of a person is shown as why he's failing as a king throughout the entire book.
Doesn't Vlad give Leto a run for the title of nicest person in setting, at least re: his people?
>>47578852
I wouldn't call Vlad nice, he's honorable, sure, and not an asshole, but he's not exactly super duper extra friendly.
Hark would be considered a nicer person, for example.
>>47578852
Vlad just has a strong sense of duty and responsibility toward his people. He's also an all round reasonable guy. But I wouldn't call him nice, no
>>47578685
Is it just me or are Idrians looking pretty fuckin neato in Mercs?
Sweet Mat 8 Pow 14 charges, pow 13 shooting that can do Damiano tier Pow 15 2 man CRAs against their prey. Not all that expensive either
>>47578705
That's exactly why Julius was able to become king. Even Cygnarans that hated Vinter wanted Leto gone
>>47577998
Well, that sounds pretty dumb overall. Why would they get rid of one of the few characters that's actually interesting?
>>47578852
He's kind of an ass, to be honest, but at least you can rely on him probably honoring his word and caring about Umbrey as a whole.
Any paladin is probably pretty nice, especially by PoM standards.
The empress is still in the running for top hypercunt, though there is some stiff competition.
>>47579152
The empress just wants to see all of Khador's stolen lands restored at any cost. She's a damn good ruler from Khador perspective and an oportunistic bitch from her enemies point of view.
>>47579191
I guess so, but you'd expect a seasoned politician like her to understand the concept that you don't *have* to betray your temporary allies at the first opportunity. At some point behavior like that would come around to bite you in the ass.
>>47579267
Khador in general just isn't used to having allies is all
>>47577998
TL;DR: everyone loses but nobody actually dies?
>>47579316
Well, Vinter sure does.
>>47579292
there's also the fact that if you were going to betray them, having them at their weakest with their ruler right there would probably be the best time to do it.
>>47579352
that basically had to happen for any of the timeskip plot or new stuff to make sense. close out that fucking chapter
>>47578779
yeah it seems like there are other groups, like Caine's old boss, who are basically like "Leto is too nice to ever order X but X has to get done for the good of the realm so we'll do it in his name."
being too nice is a bad quality in a ruler especially when you're at war with (1) the opportunistic northerners; (2) the religious group you oppressed and then exiled; (3) the people who want to put a carburetor in your corpse and send you screaming at other people; (4) the natives you fucked over, etc etc etc
>>47579452
Wait, who actually approved of imprisoning Menites during the war? Doesn't sound like a Leto thing to do
Is there a pdf for Wrath of the dragon father and blood of kings?
>>47579267
Sure, but her two most compentent generals, Irusk and Vlad, were both highly uncomfortable with the betrayal. It was a pretty dick move.
>>47579410
Sure, it's just a shame we lose one of like maybe three actually interesting people under the swan.
>>47579565
Magnus is back and he's a pretty interesting chap desu
>>47579492
Stryker iirc. he was the only person who needed to approve, being at like the top of the military hierarchy
>>47579593
Actually, didn't he kill a ton of Cygnarean soldiers and agents over the years? I mean, I get it, royal pardon and all, but I cannot imagine the military guys just accepting that. Especially considering that said new king's basis of power is precarious as fuck.
>>47579836
That's why Julius didn't actually give him any real power yet.
Julius told Magnus he needs to stay a merc, but that he will get his reward when the king has the standing to do so. For now, he has his pardon and the personal friendship of the king.
Stryker also seems to be coming around to Magnus as well, he practically spoke in his defense when they were deciding what to do with him.
>>47579836
And that's what makes it interesting, the civil war is over but there's still a lot of bad blood in Cygnar
>>47579890
Yea, and Julius all but shot down Leto's whole "No one will get punished" thing over the traitors as well.
>>47579940
I thought Julius was a bastard, so I'm not getting how he was the "rightful successor" and Leto admits he wasn't. that's not how bastardy works.
>>47579886
did Vinter's pet caster from the 4th army survive? i really want to see her statted out on the table,
>>47580001
I guess the Church of Morrow can declare children legal even if born out of wedlock, if the situation is right.
And given that one of the highest priests of Morrow was standing there claiming he's the rightful heir of Vinter, it sort of worked out.
Leto also said the court system would figure out the bastard aspect out, pretty quickly, likely meaning he was going to force the issue.
>>47580022
She did.
>>47580022yeah there was a concentrated effort to keep her alive, I'm hoping they'll use her a bunch more in the fiction leading to her tabletop appearance as well
>>47580117
cool. i know casters are rare, so it would suck to waste one, especially if you addressed the concerns she had.
>>47579836
Sort of. In the warmachine storyline Magnus has mostly fucked up inquisitors and sort of helped Vinter early on but after he went epic he mostly just stole that convoy of gold (which Julius also helped with) and killed some sword Knights.
He then proceeded to save an entire city from falling to Khador and keep Vinter from killing Leto so he's kind of a wash
>>47580131
That she was corrupt, insubordinate, and at one point of the novel actively delighted in killing fellow Cygnarans because they were issued better equipment than her? She can rot in jail.
>>47580022
Tbh she was literally just pStryker iirc
>>47580161
She took the pardon she was offered, and was then shunted to the 4th army and left to rot for years, even though she was an experienced and battle tested caster.
Of course she's pretty pissed off at Cyngarians, especially the other armies who spent years calling her trash.
>>47580131
>>47580161
>>47580173
she could totally end up becoming the magnus of the julius era
Venethrax +26
-Withershadow Combine -9
-Deathjack -23
-Deathripper -6
-Deathripper -6
-Inflictor -13
-Inflictor -13
-Harrower -16
Mobius -6
Bloat Thrall -4
Warwitch Siren -4
Soul Trapper -1
thoughts?
So, what happened to Vinter's body? Because if there's a chance we'll get a lichlord Vinter out of this...
>>47580301
Buried under castle raelthorne.
And yes, please
>>47580301
That would be pretty cool. He could basically be the Von Carstein of Warmachine, coming back from the grave to take his rightful kingdom
>>47580209
I was thinking a node, 4 or 5 inflictors, then support as needed
so is Sturgiss less shit in the new meta?
>>47580415
Do not speak of the old times, They have past and are buried under what only amasses to a betrayal greater than the Horus Heresy.
Let the dead rest.
>>47580576
Yeah, you're right. But the new Total War rekindled my interest in WHF. It's such a cruel joke that we get the best WHF video game right after the setting is obliterated
>>47580446
i don't want to buy that many inflictors haha. and having an extra node is always good. what were you thinking for support?
>>47580597
God, I've almost conquered the entire badlands as Grimgor now.
My forth army, I think, is going to be nothing but Savage Orc Big 'Uns. Let's see how Chaos likes that shit.
>>47580470
No, he's still shit
>>47580597
It is but a dream of an age long past. Beautiful yet fleeting
>>47580597
8th endures and then there's 9th age.
>>47580470
Who?
>>47580604
Wsc, darragh, maybe ILO jurys out on them, maybe WWS
holy shit soles actually gave circle an apology for being shit at answering questions
http://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?250276-When-our-insider-drops&p=3546274&viewfull=1#post3546274
>>47580849
did he apologize for the design decision that is Age of Cygnar too?
>>47580914
>Age of Cygnar
kekek
"It hadn't really occurred to me how divergent my knowledge of the game had become until I started writing these Insiders and realized that I was more likely to recall significant play test changes ran than changes actually from Mk II."
"The change to the Shifting Stone's place effects was so long ago it is not even in my notes... That likely means August of 2013"
They'd been moving away from Mk2 over two years ago, and had been designing for mk3 by the sounds of it. This explains why so many of the last few releases have been bent as fuck.
Not that I agree with all the design decisions I've seen for Mk3, but we'll see how it goes I guess.
>>47581086
there was also this from later in the thread
"I think another missing piece of the puzzle is theme forces. We intend for theme forces to be a regular building block of armies in the new edition. Certainly not all armies will be built using a theme force, but a lot will. And theme forces do not allow for the use of character warbeasts/warjacks that are not expressly listed as a model that can be included in the force army. The exception is that a character warbeast can be included in a theme force if it has a Bond with the warlock that is commanding the army."
so if it actually works like he says then theme forces really are the main factor we aren't seeing when we're trying to judge balance
>>47581234
if this is the case I hope that there will be multiple options for any given caster so even if you dont have a particular infantry unit you can still use that caster effeciently. unlike the fairly narrow current themes
>>47581337
Theme forces are now more akin to what Merc Contracts or Minion Pacts are in Mk2. They're no longer tied to specific casters, they're built more around specific unit/model types.
>>47581337
I think it'll be more like one circle theme force can only use wolf sworn, and another requires no wolf sworn, stuff like that
>>47581234
same time: theme forces aren't going to provide cost discounts.
so what do you suppose they WILL provide? i don't play mercs so what do contracts usually give you
>>47581486
access to new units or changes to unit allowance? Game buffs like being able to advance move or AD?
Theme forces are going to have direct in-game effects
I think an early insider mentioned a gun mage theme that gave gun mages CRA or something like that
>>47581486
Gunmages will get CRA.
>>47581508
gotcha. i remember them saying in-game effects, like a + to the initiative roll, versus pre-game effects, like cost decreases
>>47581530
lol dumb
>>47581486
So would this be where people saying that Legion Infantry got better and Beasts got pulled down a little might make sense?
since the infantry appear sorta nerfed in general.
>>47581486
we've seen they can add non-faction stuff you normally wouldn't be allowed to take
Llaelese Resistance Theme Force (replaces Highborn Covenant) allows one non-character Cygnaran or Protectorate unit as mercenaries.
The Kingmaker's Army (replaces Magnus' Agenda and the Bad Seeds theme force) - Magnus1, Magnus2, Bart, Damiano, and Drake MacBain as casters. Allows Long Gunner, Ranger, and Trencher units to count as mercs and join in the army.
>>47581602
That's legacy though, those always did that.
>>47581578
CRA Funmages won't be so bad
>>47581645
right but now they use that mechanic in any given faction
>>47581524
It'll be useless things like 'Place a 3" Cloud Effect that goes away after the first round"
>>47581683
*can use that
>>47581597
Though Legion infantry didn't really get better overall; most of our good units got nerfed too. Swordsmen and Archers got slightly better, bringing them up from 'terrible' to 'ok'.
>>47581597
that's pretty much the only hope left for legionnaires now
>>47581751
really what improved legion infantry was (1) the beebs staying the same; and (2) caster changes
also yeah i get maybe legos were doing too much but as with Gaspy2, the response was incredibly heavy handed.
>>47578852
Absolutely not. While he's not bad by Khadoran standards, Khadoran standards state that "invade countries over ages old butthurt, distracting everyone from the real enemy, and unleash insane superpowered criminals on women and children while doing so" is a 100% okay way to go about your life. Basically every Khadoran character, no matter how personally good they are, is marred by their loyalty to a single-minded evil.
>>47579152
>The empress is still in the running for top hypercunt, though there is some stiff competition.
The primary competition, I'd say, would be Saeryn (tricked her autismo sister into becoming a deranged mindslaved mutant because it might lead to her gaining some power), Krueger (literally willing to destroy everything to prove he's not a second-stringer), and Vayl (sold her entire people into slavery and mutilation due to butthurt).
>>47582205
i am so mad at Saeryn after Wrath of the Dragonfather. hunt down and drag that bitch.
>>47580301
>Lich Lord Vinter
Oh god yes please.
They'd have to tone him down, though, wouldn't they? His stats, when put out before, were such that he would just disintegrate anything he touched with his mad sword skills.
>>47580849
Why did circle get an appology? Hes been just as shitty for the entire insider cycle.
>>47582280
Circle Christmas never ends.
>>47582232
Man, what's she done now?
>>47582280
first main faction post-leak aside from khador, and khador just got a truckload of christmas from it?
>>47582120
beebs as in beth and bel?
>>47582280
he was particularly salty with circle
>>47580470
Nope still a poor mans pgaspy. Even power up fails to make him more interesting as his spellcasting and melee still sucks. His feat could have some synergy with bile thralls now, if you can clump infantry together i guess, as the 8 spray could do some work
>>47582357
blightbringer
>>47582296
she had a chance to get that athanc everyone's been chasing for the whole edition to everblight. instead she betrays him, severs her and rhea's connection to him, and gives the athanc to blighterghast as a counter to everblight.
>>47582592
Nonsense. She gave the Athanc to Blighterghast to prevent Toruk's imminent 100% victory over all dragons and the whole world. Everblight was being a spiteful bitch and wanted the Athanc no matter what, even though it would doom everyone including himself.
Anyone have a current link to the full card decks? Only downloaded the cards for my main faction and I want to familiarize myself with my new enemies.
>>47582615
It is interesting that she can think more strategically than him. And even do her own thing, instead of having to always be subordinate to the dragon. Have they ever gone into how she's able to do so?
>>47581234
sounds interesting; because some cunts have already started list building and it's basically:
caster + all the character WJs
So it would be nice if that wasn't possible.
Then again I kinda hope any kind of spam isn't possible.
>>47582714
I don't think that's unique to her. If I recall, Lylith went epic, don't remember which one, after almost breaking free from everblight after some incident.
>>47582735
Lylyth tore the Athanc shard out of her chest in delirium when Everblight abandoned her. Saeryn is able to very deliberately shield parts of her and her sister's minds from Everblight, to the point he can read those thoughts or exert control over them.
>>47582790
"CAN'T read those thoughts", of course
>>47582715
no it will for sure be possible, it's just the person that chooses to go all characters will have to weigh gaining the character bonuses versus losing the theme bonuses, which sounds okay to me as long as the theme bonuses are worthwhile enough that losing them is an actual penalty
The two theme list bits I've never understood:
-Caine2 requiring multiple Lancers for one of his tiers, despite their counter synergy with his abilities and no particular Lancer presence in his fluff.
-Vayl2 getting to take other people's character beasts for some reason.
>>47582790
And this is the problem with having only skimmed the pre-reckoning books.
Holy fuck they should have let Hungerford answer all the Insider questions, he's been nailing it in the Cygnar thread.
>>47582714
It's twin magic. Twin magic is a big theme in the setting. See: Morrow and Thamar.
>>47582950
Also, Haley and Denny
>>47582905
Vayl is in many ways the heart of the Legion, even if Thags is where most of Everblight lives.
>>47582941
what's he saying?
>>47583005
He's engaging the users and answering questions, rather than being a passive-aggressive prick.
>>47582706
Pretty please?
>>47583005
It's not so much what he's saying but how he's saying it, he's got a sense of humour about stuff the other devs don't.
>>47583037
Soles' haircut isn't helping.
any Legion players not starting from a base assumption of 2 units of raptors?
>>47583249
Me. I don't even own one, I'm not spending $200 on two units.
>>47583249
>>47583316
I just picked up a unit of raptors and anyssa for a a total of 72$ so I'm okay with that. I dont plan on getting anymore though.
pic somewhat related
Let's play survey, /tg/
>List that you loved to play in MK2 that is now dead
>List that you want to play more than anything for MK3
>>47583367
1. Vayl2 in tier
2. Vayl1 with a bunch of infantry and typhon
>>47583367
I don't even need to post my list, I played eDenny and they gutted her feat.
How's Khador lookin' in MKIII?
>>47583367
Beastspam with Legion.
Bethayne combined arms.
>>47583517
Pretty good. Also randomly rocketeers can join winter guard riflemen now. I think its pretty neat.
>>47583517
The general consensus is that Khador and Cygnar are fighting it out for the top spot. So far it looks pretty damn good for the reds.
>>47583367
legion beastspam
sarlacc pits
>>47582592
>>47582615
So, wait, Saeryn and Rhyas are rogue elements now? Fuck yes, this makes me the opposite of mad.
Get fucked Evercuck, this is what happens when you go for harem end.
Is Vinny D the Skinny G god tier now?
Admonition, an actually good feat, and his old feat as an upkeep.
He seems legitimately good and not a meta dependent answer to your warcaster being shot off the table.
The only downside is he effectively has less points to run infantry with now, but boostable attacks are never that bad
>>47583525
>>47583568
beast spam is really fucking fine
>>47583562
you know the old saying, "better red than a filthy swan." but seriously yeah khador won.
Hungerford should really be the face of PP. He needs to handle all the community outreach shit. Soles should be locked in a closet.
>>47583619
It is? I wasn't aware. Please explain.
>>47583621
I can't help but notice he's ignored or brushed off the concerns about Caine and Sloan though
>>47583665
Probably because they're fine
>>47583589
new 'b-but sempai I don't deserve to have you notice me' exchange student more than makes up for them
>>47583665
He specifically says the sloan 9 hunters thing has been tried a few times in playtesting and while it's mathematically possible it never works.
>>47583691
i love that Thragrosh basically has a harem of warlocks excluding his random adopted son.
>>47583651
>Jugger chassis is now mat 7, but still pretty cheap
>winterguard rocketeers get a bonus die on direct hits
>Casters didn't get nerfed too hard
>Infantry didn't get nerfed too hard
>Jacks got buffed
>>47583651
the only thing that has majorly changed with beastspam is the ability to run hot consequence-free. but this hasn't just hanged for Legion, it's changed for all hordes factions. And you can certainly set up a board state gearing toward a particular frenzy so that if it happens, that frenzy is mitigated. you saw this a lot even in mk2 with how people played abby2, they'd be prepared to have a red hot feat turn and then frenzy into the survivors next turn and it wouldn't matter because the feat turn did everything it needed to do. same principle for mk3, except the stakes are higher because...khador will be taking 3 jacks on average now instead of 1, for example, and cygnar will be taking multiple instead of consolidating all points into an easy-to-focus storm wall in every list
tldr it wont be the same as it was but beast heavy is not dead like some gloomers keep on trying to insist
>>47583249
do they really look that strong to you?
14/15 with 5 boxes is good, but they still die to boosted guns, and we are going to see a lot more boosted guns with more jacks on the table, and a lot less of the things they were good at killing
>>47583740
Oh no, I was referring to beastspam. I don't believe your statement saying its fine.
>>47583740
most khador casters got buffed
>>47583704
what's mathematically possible? there are a few issues
1. top of 1 assassination - this is what people are screaming about and it's mathematically supremely infeasible so who cares
2. shooting into deployment on the top of 1, full stop - this is kinda bullshit from a NPE perspective, honestly, and is supremely off-putting regardless of actual efficacy
3. the fact that the feat held for turn 2 with 9 hunters will be much, much more devastating. but...2 is when most people feat anyway, so there's opportunities to mitigate on bottom of 1 or top of 2 depending if the opponent went 1st or 2nd, and 9 hunters can't play the long attrition or scenario game well at all.
>>47583740
WGI got nerfed into the fucking ground though
But WGRC is boss tier now. Most jacks got buffed, Ruin got hit pretty bad by the change to how he uses souls, and Drago is just fucking dumb now. Also, no reason to use spriggan when torch exists and has its flares and is a point cheaper.
That's basically the extent of the negative I can say about khador now. Other than demo corps moving from "probably won't use these" tier to "completely unplayable" tier. And some people are salty they can't run their 8 units of doom reavers.
>>47583748
Frenzy did good damage last edition. Now its just one attack.
Trading beasts for jacks doesn't look possible this edition. For every 1 heavy I take there can be two crusaders, or a juggy and some solos. Can't hit and run very well now. Our cheapest melee heavy, the Neraph lost power for no reason.
I do still believe in the power of shredders, but I don't know if that can carry me through how heavy the field will be laden with armor now.
>>47583760
ok dude. well considering top tournament people are also saying it's fine, idk what to tell you.
>>47583807
What the fuck are you talking about? Frenzy has always been just one attack.
>>47583795
WGI?
>>47583795
>hyperbole about how much WGI got nerfed
lolno. worse sure but into the fucking ground, ask legionnaires what that actually feels like
>>47583795
Oh, and sorscha2.
Losing her elite cadre and freezing grasp and her bond sucks. Freezer on your caster is fucking pointless. She's purely a feat caster now, and it's a feat to destroy armor in a faction that's not hurting for armor cracking. She was my favorite in mk2 but I just don't see using her now.
But in exchange I got turbo assassination psorscha, I got actually usable karchev, and the irusks and strakhov are fucking monsters.
>>47583795
Ruin wound up great, don't be retarded about the souls thing. Drago, I don't care to think about, i can't think of a reason to take him even with vlad.
>you'll never be a young Khadoran warcaster recruited from the northern tribes
>you'll never have seen many of your fellows taken by blackclads and turned into warpwolves
>you'll never come across a qt Nyss ranger fleeing Everblight and tend her wounds
>you'll never bond with her over the shared experience of seeing your people twisted into something inhuman
>you'll never fight Cygnaran dogs with her at your side
>you'll never realize Khador kinda a shit when Greylords come for her seeking elvish lore
>you'll never fleet to Free Llael with her and join the resistance
>you'll never hear her laugh at how silly the prayers and incantations of Menites sound to her
>you'll never feel the cold air burn in your lungs as you duck under the swing of a Destroyer's axe together and and thrust your weapons deep into its inner workings
>you'll never hold her hands in yours, and inwardly marvel at how the years seem to have barely changed them
This is true suffering.
>>47583837
They're a 12/13 single wound unit with short range weapons. There's 0 point in bringing them anymore. If they kept bob and weave for def 14 I'd still use them, but they're just not good. WGRC obsolete them. If you want an 11 point jamming unit we've got kossites (with 1 higher def and prowl) or steelheads.
>>47583858
He used to be able to kill every single fucking model within 2 inches of him. Now he just gets to turn souls into focus and can cancel a spell in a tiny bubble. It's just hard to see him being worth the extra 5 pointsl over a juggernaut except for butcher's bond.
>>47583858
There is one reason to take him, but definitely not with vlad.
You can take him with a superiority caster. Speed 6, mat 9, def 13, steady. Then he pops imprint to become def 15. That is super goddamn slippery for arm 18 and 32? boxes, with poltergeist.
With vlad though just take berserkers.
>>47583837
legionarries don't look that bad desu.
still cheap with high arm, vengeance and cma.
Biggest thing that I can see that they lost is set defense on the UA, but how bad could that be?
>>47583934
It's not so much legionnaires are bad so much as completely outclassed by Swordsmen.
>>47583934
Legionnaires actually went up in price and got nothing for it.
Also the UA lost its awesome flag and the minifeat was nerfed.
>>47583885
IKRPG is for you
>>47583940
I feel like swordsman are a much worse tarpit, seeing as they lack Iron zeal, full reach and vengeance.
Swordsmen definitely hit hard targets better, but I would wager that is working as intended.
>>47583977
Swordsmen have basically the same threat range. 1 in melee range and 1 more speed. They hit harder. They are defense 14 too.
>>47583992
>same threat range
discounting vengeance, yes
Def 14 and arm 17 both offer solid protection. Which one is best naturally depends on the threat being faced
>>47583858
lolno
>>47584194
Great rebuttal
So what is the general concensus about MK3?
I really really rarely play and was at my gaming group for the first time after month today - lot's of good people, some play for my country on international events.
They were stocked about being able to play with new lists and a new meta but made fun of lot's of the changes and how PP obviously didn't know their own game to make it balanced.
Will the new game just be shit for the first year or so?
>>47584298
Warmachine mk3 is fantastic, the best it's ever been.
Hordes mk3 is utter garbage.
>>47584298
It's easy to look at changes and say "That's stupid"
However when you're playing the game it'll be fine.
Except the Rhinodon. The Rhinodon will not be fine.
>>47584327
Archidon is worse than rhinodon desu
Zaal1:
-Gladiator
-Gladiator
AG
AG
Hakaar
Max Nihilators
Max Nihilators
Max Immortals w/UA
Max PGBH
How's this strike you guys?
>>47584452
Zaal1 can't direct spirits to hakaar anymore
>>47584470
Sorry, not direct spirits, the other thing. The fury to souls thing.
>>47584470
>>47584491
Honestly I expect this to get errata'd in the first wave, if not already corrected on the print cards. RAW vs RAI.
>>47584540
Anyway, I suggest going with a unit of karax.
It's a trick I used in mk2 a lot. Karax does a big last standed CMA or two and only the guys that made the attack roll die. Then they've still got 8-9 jamming dudes to get through.
>>47583367
>Gaspy2. good night sweet prince
>Scaverous's dirty thirty, I guess. Who said infantry was dead.
>>47581524
I understand they will be more like Merc Contracts.
So stuff like allowing certain units to be taken (like Gunmages for Higborne) or allowinf abilites on certain things (again, like AD solos in Highborne) are likely. I wonder if they will have price reductions as well.
I can see something like a "Crusaders of Sul" Exemplar army having points reductions on Medium infantry or giving them special abilities.
How do you guys think the wold style of play is gonna be for Circle in MK3? I've always wanted to get into circle but just for them. I'm thinking with the increased terrain their innate pathfinder might be legit.
>>47584728
>Woldwatcher
Garbage
>Woldwyrd
Potentially Good
>Woldwarden
Garbage
>Wold Guardian
Decent
>Megalith
Mediocre for his cost, except with certain 'casters
>Woldwrath
Decent
>>47584833
Fuck :( I was hoping they would get buffed. Ah well, now I gotta decide on either starting Trolls in MK3 or Cygnar
Anyone have any Gunnbjorn dojo going yet? Curious to see how people are reconciling his toolkit and his beast preferences.
>>47584939
I wanted the Satyrs to get buffed :I
Not sure why they got worse
>>47582706
Second this, would love the khador deck
>>47585005
>>47582706
http://www.megafileupload.com/jnKb/cards.zip?pt=FrAZGm1cPNRgDYVHIYgfMxFsYE5ApyOswCm%2BWacU5r0%3D
>>47584966
Satyrs may be the 'spam huge amounts' beast
>>47583621
I agree with this statement.
>>47584966
In general they seem to be relegated to the budget beast role, which very well may have structural issues.
The gnarlhorn seems like a defensive tool. Roots of the earth+ being a counterslam bot and a mediocore heavy for 6 mk2 points at least needs some games to determine if it will be bad.
Shadowhorn looks like a good scenario piece.
Riphorn has a chain attack, so it will often get the same # of attacks as a warpwolf, especially with primal. Seems like a good idea to take one with a feral and use it as a primal missile.
>>47585188
I thought that as well initially, sans feral. However, its slower, no pathfinder has terrible stats and needs a lot of work to get into fighting shape, and still doesnt hit that hard.
>Nobody wants to sit there through a slog for two hours in a slog of a game
Fuck you Hungerford, I love those games.
do we have any info on Deathjack's resculpt?
as someone who cant bring himself into enjoying AoS, and hearing about all this Mk3 talk, will Warmahordes release a new two player box set with the latest addition of Mk3to introduce new players?
![WARMACHINE-MK.-III-2-PLAYER-BATTLEBOX[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/LUsglfZ.jpg "WARMACHINE-MK.-III-2-PLAYER-BATTLEBOX[1].jpg")
>>47585893
yup, we just don't know when except that it's further than 3 months away. there's always picking up 2 single battleboxes when they aren't sold out
>>47583591
He's at worst a B+, probably an A. I don't think he's S-tier, then again we don't know if S-tier casters will even still be a thing once the meta shakes out.
>>47585105
They really aren't that though, the cheapest they get is 12 i think, and like 14 for the riphorn. Sure that's cheap but it's not spammy cheap, and at SPD5, no pathfinder, with pillowfists, they don't piece-trade worth a fuck without significant help from a caster.
>>47580849
kek, in the very next post he admits they were buttmad because people were using the leaked cards to ask intelligent questions rather than throwing them softballs.
>>47586111
I was kind of surprised the chain attack guys let the Rhinodon slide, they'd just had a podcast on why it was so bad.
I do get the feeling it was a gentleman's agreement.
It helped that Hungerford can actually fucking talk about the new edition without sounding like an asshole.
Anyone got the Venator Dakkar card?
I'm more surprised at that they just decided to not address the kara sloan issue. "we tested it out a couple of times and it didn't pan out" is not good enough!
chainattack interview confirmed errata card packs are once a year and will only contain cards that were changed, for all factions. so there should be a lot of swapping/selling faction cards you don't need
>>47578758
Stryker also had a heroic BSOD afterVinter simply gets up after getting knocked down by Rowdy's earthquake *attack and pounded on TWICE by said jack's hammer while he was down. Oh, and this is after Vinter goes full King Bradley on Rowdy and cleaves him in half via the torso.
>>47583237
IDK how you can even show your face in public with hair like that DESU
>>47581086
>Not that I agree with all the design decisions
I have no idea what the fuck was going on with the khador play test. Things are either crazy good or fucking worthless.
>>47586370
it's looking likely the fucking worthless stuff worked in a theme force somehow, so that's how it stayed
>>47581486
>ame time: theme forces aren't going to provide cost discounts
I will believe it when I see it. So far I can only put half my doom reavers on the table even though they are "fa:u"...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxcfmkcg1OA
>Vinter vs everyone.mp4
>>47581683
>>47581602
I'd love to see some more stuff like that for actual factions. Like say, a Vichy Lhael Khador force. Vanguards and Thorn Gunmages are Khadoran in this force.
>>47586448
Man why is FMA such an exception to fights in shonen? None of the rest of them use environment and different types of battlers like this.
I wish there where more.
As much as I'm bitching about Mk3 I'll admit that it looks like the gap between the best casters and the rest did meaningfully decrease, which was the thing that was making the game shitty. Sloan or Caine2 might be retarded good, but they're no Mk2 Harbinger/Haley2/Gaspy2/Body&Soul/MachinationsOfShadow.
There still looks to be a depressing amount of "These are the best 3-5 casters and the best 10-15 models in your faction, play only this or you're retarded" intra-faction balance issues, but those already existed and I'll take them over having to frantically try to answer a few S-tier lists or auto-lose.
Contemplating starting small forces.
Skorne: Rasheth/Mordikaar/Zaal/Xekaar
PoM: Amon/Durst/Thyra/Sevy
Think these are good caster rosters?
>>47586521
I don't agree quite yet. I think there are a few obvious go to casters in every faction.
>>47586676
There are, but that isn't what I'm saying. Having an obvious best caster in a faction isn't the same as having a Haley2, not by a long shot.
>>47586519
Jojo does, as do some other stuff.
>>47586694
OK Jojo is a great exception. I love me some jojo. Name me some other stuff please. I would be happy for other stuff.
>>47586689
The problem is, I feel like Caine2 kept the threat of his assassination while also getting tons of attrition and a little bit of heavy control as well.
Yea, the overall range on his assassination is lower, but he can also save it for much later in the game.
Plus, he can GW to keep your caster from healing, so he gets to try again next turn.
>>47586578
I like Big V more than Thyra, but shes alright. Amon is a little too mem-y for my taste, but he looks better than his mk2 incarnation.
>>47586703
I'm trying to think of shit, but I recently watched Sword of the Stranger, and that's the only thing coming to mind. It's too late, and I'm too tired, sorry.
>>47586739
Any thoughts on how you'd build Vindi in 3e?
>>47586705
On the other hand he lost a shot since Reinholdt and Squire are now mutually exclusive. Shield Guard seems easier to come by for most factions as well, and losing 3" off his Gatecrasher hit-and-run keeps him more honest.
He's certainly good, almost guaranteed one of the top 3 casters in his faction and maybe in the entire game, but he's far closer to balanced than the S-tier Mk2 casters were by any stretch of the imagination.
>>47586578
>>47586739
Thyra is actually pretty good.
I had a pretty solid list in mk2 that took advantage of her feat to unjam zealots, while simultaneously using A&H to turn zealots into monsters and make stranglehold more reliable.
The same concept could, more or less, be applied to mk3.
Her biggest problem was getting more than 1 turn of armor cracking, but with powerup and the changes to Silence of Death that won't be nearly as much of a problem
>>47586768
It's a bit back and forth. Sure, he lost a shot, but he also has a much easier time killing warcasters, especially low armor ones, since he can force shield guards and Focus spending far earlier into the barrage.
>>47586809
I'd bet money that's just going to be a thing. Cygnar is almost certainly going to have either Caine2 or Sloan in their list pair, account for that in yours. Neither seems so off the wall that a list that can deal with them won't also be able to deal with a good range of other stuff, I see lists designed around bringing high-quality shots being pretty common on the Warmachine side of things given how well Power Up interacts with gunjacks.
>>47586703
Fate/Stay Night is fun for mythology showdown rock-paper-scissors, but I'm fairly biased towards it since it was my first exposure to visual novels and weaboo fightan. Fate/Zero is around if you prefer grittiness to shounen.
I'd say it depends on how familiar you are with general western mythology, and whether you'd enjoy seeing elements of it run through a westaboo filter.
I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that if a model/unit doesn't have something to make it not die to blasts you just don't bother putting it on the table if you can help it in Mk3.
In terms of Units you can sneak by with Reposition to prevent blast-bait clusters without sacrificing offensive positioning since each individual dude isn't super important (though units with important officers are boned), but unless you have a way to make them not die the days of a squishy support platoon following your army around might be dead and gone, because a single Redeemer will just fucking end them.
>>47583367
pGrissel MMM
eMadrak with a load of fens
Runners up are stumbling drunk Rok and Ragnor giving the mauler beatback
>>47586767
I'm thinking two units of zealots, a unit of exemplars, bastions with senschel and 1-2 castigators as the core of the force.
>>47587034
Replace castigators with reckoners, I screw those up sometimes.
So, I heard an MK3 core rules pdf is making its way around the interwebs. Does anyone know more about that?
>>47581697
How is that useless? Place it in front of the enemy caster and deny him 3" movement on turn 1.Yes I am grasping at straws.
>>47582276
>They'd have to tone him down, though, wouldn't they?
Well they already have Bane Lord Grimmr and while that guy is too god for his (MK2) points, he's not incredibly broken.
>>47583367
>List that you loved to play in MK2 that is now dead
Mak3 "Molik eats the World"
>List that you want to play more than anything for MK3
Mak3 "Tiberion and Molik eat the World"
>>47583724
>his random adopted son
You don't mean Thagrosh do you? Because Thagrosh is literally Everblights self-insert.
>>47583621
Well, Hungerford was Quartermaster before, so he kinda has experience dealing with man-children.
How's this for a Mk3 Durgen Madhammer list?
Madhammer +29
-Avalancherx2 -34
-Gunnerx2 -12
-Reinholdt -4
Nyss Hunters -19
Herne & Johne -5
Horgenhold Artillery x2 -12
Thor -4
Rhupert -4
Orin Midwinter -5
Alten Ashley -5
Feels pretty good to me, only glaring weakness I think is lack of magic weapons but short of shoehorning in A&H just for that purpose I might just have to suck it up.
>>47583724
>>47587342
Oh. I misread. But regardless, Everblight has the harem, Thagrosh is the "protagonist" through which he acts.
>>47583704
He didn't specifically say Sloan + hunter spam.
He said WJ spam in general.
I srsly hope PP has got it right and covered over the obvious gaping holes:
>Players are fucktards and will use the stupidest spam lists if it allows them to get an easy win.
But somehow, I feel doubt;
>Because eVayl tier list, Bradigus tier list, eMorvhanna, eLylith, Body & soul, eAsphyxious, Butcher2 mad dogs (albeit manageable, it's still stupid)
>>47583795
whoa whoa: doom reavers are FA:U, so why can't they use 8 units of Doomreavers???
>>47584346
Nah. Archidon is bad-ish. It still has its uses, though I wouldn't want to pay more than 10 points for it now. However there is absolutely no reason to take the Rhinodon. If you want SG, take the Razor Worm.
Anyone have leaks of the Troll or Cygnar decks?
>>47585893
>>47585980
They're expected to be released in August. There's going to be one with Cygnar+Cryx and one with Skorne+Trolls. So the core factions that were not in those boxes in MK2.
>>47583885
Deserters deserve to die desu
>>47587034
>zealots
Right now those seem like a rahter poor choice.
Which faction is the saltiest about the MK3 changes?
>>47587536
your faction
>>47587536
Cryx, Circle, Skorne. Two out of those are understandable.
>>47587352
that anon meant kallus ruined it
>>47587560
Why Circle? Haven't really payed attention to them
>>47587562
Does it though? Traditionally, a harems needs a few eunuchs to guard it. Kallus fits right into that role.
>>47587568
They got hit pretty hard. Movement shenannigans are all but dead. Especially the Druids got hit by the bat of nerfs.
>>47587541
>Ret
Other than like the 4 retards on the forums that crutches hard on Wo9V, we don't have anything to be salty about m80.
>>47587560
Are the changes really that bad?
Hey guys, what's the TL;DR for MK3? Better or worse than mk2? How do they compare in fun and tactical options/army building?
>>47587598
Right now it's worse than MK2. Give it a year and it'll be better.
>>47587598
Broadly better, the top-end of the power curve came down noticeably and most factions seem to have better (still not perfect) internal balance. Infantry-based skew lists are probably dead, ridiculous theme forces are dead (hopefully they won't come back from the grave in 6 months when the Mk3 themes come out, but probably not), and taking a large battlegroup as a Warmachine player isn't super retarded anymore.
>>47587573
before we could just say 'Waifus of Everblight', now it's 'Waifus of Everblight and Kallus' like he's knuckles or something
>>47587251
>place a cloud effect
>Deny him 3" of moment
>pick one
>>47587747
So you don't charge up your caster turn one? I assume you play a lot of Vayl1.
Is he just going to be a Snipe dispenser again this edition? The hit to infantry probably hit him as well.
>>47586448
Vinter is Luca Blight
Skorne player here
so i took a 2-3 month break from the game and now i can't win any games playing "mk 2.5". i used to have a pretty respectable win rate. now Retribution, Khador and Cephalyx are kicking my ass.
None of my old staples seem to be doing work except Tiberion. my lists always seem to fall flat of having something really good. my opponents don't really ever have the "wow thats unfair" moment that i could get out of them in mk2 when mordikaar had his list kill some of his nihilators and revive them into a forward position to charge the enemy or when Molik launched himself 20" across the board immune to free strikes with boosted attack rolls or when they faced Fist of Halaak and there was a lot of boxes to grind through.
is skorne really and truly dead? Am i just struggling to find the right things that click in mk3?
What faction should i play instead anons, i want to actually win games and have fun.
>>47588141
>eHexeris + Razor Wurm
>Gladiator spam
>Black Spot + Swordsmen
Were you doing any of these?
>>47588141
>is skorne really and truly dead?
No. Some of our stuff went to shit, but >50% is still good. It's still possible to win with Skorne, just not in the same way as before.
>my opponents don't really ever have the "wow thats unfair" moment
That is a good thing.
>>47588214
None of my opponents are bringing any infantry, its just jacks jacks jacks jacks jacks. So i tried going heavier on beasts but i cant seem to piece trade with khador because at the end B3 is still alive
>>47588285
Apply more Gladiators.
>>47588218
What sort of lists should i be playing then? right now i just feel at disadvantage in every matchup :(
>>47588036
He has no affinity to infantry
Jesus can PoM just shut the fuck up about MUH CHOIR for more than 3 hours?
>>47588311
Against jack spam? That's really tough, not going to lie. I'll be dropping the following into it:
Mak3 (+24)
- Gladiator (14,+10)
- Sentry (15, 5)
- Soldier (18, 23)
- Tiberion (22, 45)
- Molik (20, 65)
2x PGBH (min) (10, 75)
It should also be able to deal with shooting really easily, as only one heavy is really sucseptible to it and there are 4 shield guards in the list. Rasheth could also be possible, but I'm having trouble coming up with a good list for him.
Where do you find Vinter's dnd stats?Voyle's as well for that matter.
>>47583367
>List that you loved to play in MK2 that is now dead
Kraye, with anything remotely interesting
>List that you want to play more than anything for MK3
Magnus the Wargod
>>47583885
You know, this makes me wonder.
Has Morrow ever accepted the worship of a non-human and taken them into his little slice of the afterlife? He really doesn't seem to be the kind of deity that cares whether or not his worshipers were of whatever race or whatever tribe, so long as their deeds were good.
>>47588724
>Caring about Morrow when you could be worshipping Thamar
>>47588320
Colossal + Gunbunny spam could be potentially good
>>47588756
If you're taking an Earthbreaker (or hell, any Rhulic heavy with a gun since they all fucking KD) take 1 or 2 of the Dorf artillery. Knock something down and suddenly two 3-dice pow14s to the face from 16" away with arcing fire.
Gunbunnies are real good but if you've got ranged knockdown, which Rhulic lists always will because it's on all their heavies and colossal, it's more than worth subbing out bunnies for arty.
