So let's get this right.

PP decided Warders box spam was too strong, so they got the nerf bat. They lowered their POW to 10 (now 11), to make sure that while they're in base to base they can have ARM 21...but they won't really hit that hard.

Then they remove animus buffing on troopers to ensure that wouldn't happen as well. They reduce ARM benefits from EC as well, as they really don't want ARM 22+ to be the norm.

Warders are now 17 points.

Now, let's look at Man o War Shocktroopers.


While under Shield Wall, they'll be ARM 21. Ok, same as Warders so far. But wait, Iron Flesh is +2 ARM now. So a full unit of Shocktroopers are going to be ARM 23. I didn't think that was acceptable! Oh well, I'm sure they got nerfed on their POW like Warders did.

Huh, they're POW 14 reach. That's 3 points higher than Warders. Damn they have CMA too. Well, wait anon, surely they're more fragile in wounds maybe than Warders?

8 boxes. And repairable, with Mechanics and a UA that prevents being pushed or knocked down. Well ok....they must be expensive then.

16 points for 5. Cheaper than Warders, plus they don't require the Krielstone to get high ARM. Well ok then...

So pButcher + 2 units of Man O War going to be a thing? Front unit will be ARM 23, no knocked down, no push, Shield Wall lasts until their next activation now. Engage them? Here comes Jacks or hell, he'll just throw Fury on the unit now instead so you can eat MAT 7 POW 17s.


Blatant cash grab by PP.

>>47503085
Trollbloods players already bought Warders for MMM, but Khador players didn't buy Man-o-Wars so there needed to be an incentive.

File: foryou.jpg (575 KB, 1920x1080) Image search: [Google]

575 KB, 1920x1080

So what's the faction balance looking like, apart from Cryx being shit tier?

>>47503315
Hard to say, but to me it looks like this:

Khador > Cygnar/Retribution > Menoth/Mercs/Cyriss > Cryx.

Haven't looked into hordes enough yet to have a solid opinion.

>>47503154

Man-o-Wars came in the 2 player box, there's fuckloads of them out there.

>>47503085
You conveniently forget to mention that Warders are an ENTIRE UNIT of dudes with Shield Guard.

But no, really, continue being buttmad, it amuses the rest of us.

>>47503085
Khador players have been bitching daily for the last SIX YEARS about how MoW were bad and they wanted PP to buff them, and now Shocktroopers are finally allowed to be good and you call it a cash grab? lolwut?

>>47503599
The problem is that PP's way of balancing apparently is buffing stuff straight from shit to OP and the other way around.

Look at the whole of MK3 spoilers right now... They didn't take the time to balance MK3, they just switched some stuff around. All the things people bitched about are still there, just in different factions.

>>47503524

So you feel Shield Guard makes up for the following:

MOW have 8 wounds vs Warders 5
MOW have POW 14 vs Warders 11
MOW will likely be ARM 23 vs Warders 21
MOW are repairable, Warders are not
MOW are cheaper
MOW have access to a unit wide +3 on damage, Warders can't even get Animi now

Yes, Shield Guard makes up for all of that. Sure...

>>47503599

It's not that they buffed them. They DID need a buff. But telling people they were tired of ARM/Box spam, then basically making MOW better Mk 2 Warders, makes zero sense. Unless you want to sell MOW.

No one is talking about Lynnsa. Hunters mark is going to be bretty gud if we're playing more heavies. She has a 17 inch bubble and it's Magic power 7. Gives a free focus and +2 charge range to anything charging it. That's enough to enable a lot of assassination if you can keep her concealed.

I'm looking forward to running her in crocs. I'm tempted to take a swamp horror with her and extending everyone's threat ranges by 4. +2 from hunters mark and +2 from the reach pull. with Warpath up under Barnie that becomes 16" threat on a wrassler. 2 pow 17s and a pow 20 at mat 6 and with 4 fury is going to get very messy for anything short of a colossal. and if I don't need the rage animus I can give it reach instead making it 18" threat. Not bad for a 16 point heavy

>>47503703
MoW are absolutely not better than Mk2 Warders, because they have to use Shield Wall if they want to get super-ARM, which is incredibly fucking limiting.

You're just delusional.

>>47503703
>So you feel Shield Guard makes up for the following:

Yes. If you don't understand how valuable it is then you're playing at scrub-tier and your opinion is worthless.

>>47503772
Using her storm with Wurmwood's feat will cause beautiful butt pain.

>>47503457
Cygnar is definitely ahead of khador. Everything in khador was adjusted to be solidly in the B+ to A+ range. Cygnar still has some S stuff, with not much lower than an A.

Can someone post a link to the Legion Mk3 faction deck imgur please? I forgot to bookmark it when they got posted last week.

>>47503888

pretty sure all the imgur stuff got taken down

>>47503857

>Shield Guard makes up for all of that

You're on drugs anon. I've listed the multiple ways they're better and you pull out the scrub-tier argument. "Git gud". Mm hmm.

>>47503848

Maybe not as good as Mk 2 Warders, that might have been hyperbole. But certainly better than Mk 3 Warders..

>>47503703
To be at their high arm, they're walking speed 4 up the field. Unless you put 5 points into a UA in which case they're walking speed 6.

Warders are running 10 inches or charging 8 and still having all their benefits, they have tough, shield guard, and def 12 instead of 10. Def 12 means mat 6 is missing them 41% of the time.

That's the difference.

>>47503918
5 points into a solo, rather.

>Maybe not as good as Mk 2 Warders, that might >have been hyperbole. But certainly better than >Mk 3 Warders..

Where's your problem then? That the creme de la creme of multi-wound infantry as far as the lore goes finally gets to be what it should be while Trollbloods Buff-Synergy-Box-o-Rama of Fun-Destruction was nerfed? Indeed, sense-filled opinion

mmm.
a little salt.

is that blue crystals i see?

>>47503931
It's basically a 5-point UA. One that can't keep up with the unit it buffs, because the buff's not affecting the buffer itself, another reason why it should be a UA instead of a solo.

>>47503884
The ATGM Rifle-Dude alone is a spit in Khadors face with it being an all around better sniper that THE snipers aka Widowmakers, which got nerfed to uselessness with silly high point costs for models without matching special abilities matching those point costs.

Man o Wars are supposed to be played with the UA, the kovnik solo with desparate pace, and pIrusk reposition orders. Walk 9" in shield and regain weapon master, immune to push and knockdown

>>47504084
What does "regain weapon master" mean here

>>47504110
It means that guy thinks MoWs used to have WM.

Yes if you keep comparing these 2 units in a total vacuum then yeah you will find differences between khador and trolls that you don't like but consider what trolls can do that khador (and every other faction right now) can't do.
Champs are def12 arm16 with defensive line. Making them def14 arm18 under stone. Add madrak1 sure foot spell and we have def16 arm18 heavy infantry which is something that with spoilers to this point no other faction in the game can do.

>these troll tears

They're delicious. Warders were overpowered, warped the meta and held back the faction.

They deserved a nerf. PP wanted to make MoWs the best medium based infantry in the game, so they did. Bitch more faggit

Who's read The Blood of Kings? I just finished it, I thought it was alright.

You keep trying to compare troll armor skew to khador armor skew. And yes khador is better at it. Because that is all they have now. With the change to iron flesh, khador cannot run a high def skew any more. No more def19 kayazy no more def19 Butcher. Or def ten million sorcha. Khador is doing it's kind of armor thing and trolls have way more options. You can't look at 1 unit from each side and make doom predictions off of that.

>>47504184

Warders got better than they currently were in Mark 2.

And it's faggot, get an education.

>>47504217
Magnus was right, Julius is too much of a pussy like Leto though.

>>47504184
Are you sure they are, though? I think reciprocators are the best medium based infantry. They trade 1 point of arm for 2 def, and can either choose to have equal pow as shock troops or to have set defense. 14/20 is a pretty damn nice statline without any support. Lucant has deflection and his +4 arm feat, iron mother has tac supremacy for reposition 3. And they're speed 5.

>>47504217

not happy with midwinter stuff but was okay otherwise

>>47503896

Damn. Was hoping to figure out which Warlock I'm going to build a list for first.

>>47504351
I can give you the legion PDF if you want.

>>47504025
>Widowmakers
>nerfed to uselessness

U wot m8?

Minions look pretty ill now. They're the only hordes faction that's been able to get me excited.

>>47504427
They lost camo and are now 8 points. Cygnar can take two rifleman solos for 8 points that are better than the widowmaker solo.

>>47504427
They lost Camouflage. Everyone not horrible at shooting can get rid of them. And 1 shot per 2 point cost. Yeah, that's damn nice, when marksman/sniper is the only thing they get. Deadly shot should've been a no brainer for them, or at least be granted by the Widowmaker Marksman. Or Stealth. Not just keeping the cost but cutting away the defensive tech.

Also, I like how the widowmaker marksman is FA 1 while the objectively superior arcane rifleman is FA2. Both cost the same.

>>47504467
>They lost camo and are now 8 points.

So? 8 points in Mk3 is the equivalent of 4 Mk2 points (i.e., the same exact point cost they are in Mk2). And, yeah, they lost Camo, but they now ignore Tough. Honestly, not much of a nerf.

As for the Marksman, he got a straight buff since he traded Sniper for Deadly Shot.

You're an idiot if you think they're useless now.

>>47504533
Everything else in the game got cheaper, and the point total of the game decreased, so they are relatively more expensive.

>>47504562
>Everything else in the game got cheaper
If you seriously think Widowmakers aren't going to see play, you're an absolute idiot and there is no getting through to you.

>>47504575
They're too expensive. Why not take Kell for 5 points to get off two deadly shots with a magical gun at higher rat and prowl?

>>47504467
Too slow for you :/

>>47504605
>Why not take Kell for 5 points to get off two deadly shots with a magical gun at higher rat and prowl?

For less than twice that, you get off twice as many shots without needing to sit still and aim. And you get Friendly faction buffs. And Deadly Shot doesn't really benefit you when you're popping single wound models.

>>47504455
Agreed. I'm trying to work out 2 lists now that don't require me to buy 2 Blind walkers. I think it might be fun to run Barnie and a swamp horror since Warpath will make them much faster and they have 4 attacks at base. Casting rage on it making them pow 15 chain attack and then pow 18 pecks.

Rage in general seems pretty insane. +3 strength with no downside is going to wreck face.

>>47504652
Oh boy, friendly faction buffs. Which buffs are you thinking of that are relevant for them?

>>47504605
There is no reason not to do that. Widowmakers are, if those spoilers are the final truth (which I don't hope/believe) inferior to almost any other sniper in the game, from a game value perspective. They should rename them Winterguard Snipers and get rid of the fancy looking name, if this is theirs final status

>AK changes
I'm not sure if they're better or worse for it. Strakhov giving them a meaningful buff is nice, at least.

>>47504652
You get 2 times the non magical shots, so hurray for you. Also, less wounds, less space taken up (for terrain, thats now significant and, afaik, prowl). Your arguments stands invalid on the FFB's, because there is virtually nothing that would benefit them with the loss of the good version of Iron Flesh.

>>47504664
S&P, HoF, various feats such as Irusk's which gives uber tough and a RAT bonus, Shatter Storm, also they're great for triggering Road to War with Karchev. The list goes on.

>>47504676
They lost volume of attacks, lost assault and battery for an inferior assault, and at least their gas used to be a gimmick where you could lower something's def a bit. And you can't blow up their flamethrower anymore.

But I guess they got +1 rat? Hooray?

>>47504709
I'll grant you Road to War, I was planning on fielding them for that. And shatter storm is okay. But the others are marginal.

>>47504733
Oh, and they picked up brutal charge, which is decent. Still don't think that makes them worth using.

>>47504733
>I'll grant you Road to War, I was planning on fielding them for that. And shatter storm is okay. But the others are marginal.

How about the interactions with Irusk2? Pop them in an Artifice of Deviation AoE and cast Solid Ground. DEF 18 and immune to blasts and KD on your AD snipers and suddenly you have a hard to remove unit upfield from the rest of your force popping shots at the enemy early on to inflict some early casualties.

Weald Secrets from the Old Witch so they can ignore concealment and cover.

>>47504762
The brutal charge was probably to compensate for losing the shield attack and assault+battery.

But yeah, they lost their toolboxes and didn't really get anything to push them into proper usability. I was kinda hoping the third time would be the charm, but I guess it's back to wishing for an officer attachment.

>>47504733
>lost assault and battery for an inferior assault

What exactly makes assault and battery better than assault?

>>47504217
I read that it has a Vlad vs Vinter fight. Is it good?

>>47504819
Assault and Battery lets you shoot and then run. Or shoot and then charge at a different target than the one you shot at.

Assault is only better in the case of the flamethrowers, since they shoot after the charge.

>>47504794
Without putting anything short of a fuckton into the unit. Oh wait, you did that. Which other snipers don't need to do their damn job, and therefore don't charge you ridiculous amounts of pay for magical results.

>>47504896
Yeah, I feel that in general your opponent will be appreciative of any upkeeps you put on the 4 model sniper unit instead of a 10 model anything else unit.

>>47504794
With that amount of resources channeled into them, other units would deal quite probably better with threats and would do so cheaper.

Will the Blood of the Kings novel take place during the MK2 or MK3?

>>47504926
I think it's the 2 year interim

>>47504912
You would at least appear to be a gentlemen to your opponent for running sub optimal on principle

>>47504926


It takes place like 5 minutes after Vengeance

>>47504912
Units of that size should run without much support. And the good ones do just that, without being overpriced^^

>>47504668
>if those spoilers are the final truth (which I don't hope/believe)

Dat desperate, clinging hope.

>>47504896
>>47504923

Except they don't NEED those to get work done. These examples are meant to show the benefits of being Friendly Faction as opposed to Merc options. Read the conversation.

Widowmakers will get shit done. They always have and they will continue to do so with or without support.

Are they as good as they were? Not necessarily, but saying they're worthless now is completely retarded.

>>47505011
>what is ranking officer

Can anyone share the Wrath of the Dragonfather or Blood of Kings pdf?

>>47505011
Oh, I will keep playing the, that's not the case, but I will keep criticizing bad design and unfair balancing issues. If you wan't to read my anger and me stating them being useless as without any hyperbole, that's your problem. Are they mindfully priced?
No way.
Do they reflect what they should be fluffwise?
No way.
Do they have the power to be evenly up there with other factions sniping option, which are mostly not lored to be such feared snipers, with or without buffs? No f-ing way.

It's Man-O-Wars all over again. Once upon a time our med-base infantry was something special. Then almost everyone else got their version, and they were overall vastly superior to our version. Same happens here again, just not on that scale and partially through rewriting the rules.

>>47504978
Indeed, I keep hoping for a bit more brain put into the whole balancing, not just for my faction^^

>>47504467
>They lost camo and are now 8 points.
>They lost Camouflage.

I almost never ran them in cover or concealment. They never got shot off the table.

>>47504819
Assault and battery let you take shots before moving and at targets different than your charge target. So, assuming they hit you could clear the front line of a unit and charge into the back ranks of the unit and really rip it up.

Also, imo assault is a side grade to assault and battery. You trade the ability to kill more dudes for the ability to extend your guns range by 3" (and threat 18 guns are no joke). Plus rat6 will actually hit the broad side of a God damned barn once in awhile.

>>47504668
>inferior to almost any other sniper in the game, from a game value perspective.

Every sniper in the game can at maximum kill 1 model a turn if it moves. Widow makers are 8 pts and can kill 4 a turn. On top of this you can take every sniper possible along side of them and two round heavies at range.

I dont understand why you are crying like a little faggot.

any kind anons have spoiler links? I've been out of the loop for a few days, now every thing seems to have been taken down.

>>47505215
rat6 is pretty nice, but losing the gas debuff is rough

>>47505178
speak neither for you nor your opponents. Maybe you never used them defectively and therefore your opponents never saw a threat in them.

>>47505251
Probably because your brain is small enough to think a a whining faggot. Pretty sure that's it. Every other Sniper is not defined only by his kill potential against single wound grunts, which you astonishing retarded falsely hypothesized. They have no def tech anymore, have nothing that makes their shot more fearful or flexible (Armor Piercing, different attack types, etc.) And are overpriced in comparison to other snipers when you regard all this.

>>47505540
>>47505458
srs, dat autocorrect...

>>47505032
four points

>>47504392

Sure I'll take it if you're offering.

>>47505703
A point tax

>>47503699

Except for Skorne, who got the shaft this time as well. Now they where bad in mk2, had some "one trick pony" stuff going down in the best of cases. But now, now they seem absolutely horrible. Sure, a lot of things has been nerfed, but just take Khador for instance, everyone seems to have gotten something thats the new "thing". The only thing that was something for Skorne in mk2 was molik missile, the bronzeback and HI spam, and all that got nerfed... .and the rest as well.
I don't even play Skorne and even I was like "lul wut?" when the insider was released. Apart from some ranged (bad sales I guess) units, and of course the cav, all things got from bad to worse. And we all know they only bumped the things that didn't sell during mk2 (and no wonder, their cav units are crazy expensive for shit ugly models!).

>tfw coc
>tfw literally nothing relevant changed
SAME AS IT EVER WAS

>>47505914
and, this a surprise to you?

>>47506017
No, I have reached mathematical enlightenment.
Change is wrong.
C is perfect.

>>47505914

Did you miss the memo that CoC was the pre-launch team for mk3? A "try it out" team if you will.

How does the new Cygnar sniper compare with Iosan Ghost Snipers? As that seems like a more fair comparison than a full unit of snipers.

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71 KB, 1000x437

Are they going to be good this edition? What about light artillery in general?

>>47503085
troll player here. Another key difference between how both units get to arm 21 is that warders can run and get to 21. Man-o-wars have to use the order which means they're only moving 4" unless they're desperate paced, in which case its 6". I don't have the cards in front of me but didn't warders go up to spd 5 as well?

>>47506208
Didnt light artillery get buffed pretty hard

File: pirates.jpg (46 KB, 640x480) Image search: [Google]

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How is Cryx looking in mk3? Heard some good things about slayers. Is revenant crew finally worth using?

>Skorne
>Only faction with no free charges
>PP laughs and says have a free slam
>Fuck you PP

>>47506188
ghost sniper
6 4 4 7 14 11 7
rng 14 rof 1 pow 10
pc3 fa2
marksman, swifthunter, pathfinder
deadly shot

arcane rifleman
6 4 5 7 14 11 7
rng 14 rof 1 pow 10
pc4 fa2
aim to ignore stealth, reposition 3", marksman
magic weapon and select shot type:
deadly shot or
snipe or
blessed

melee identical

>>47506384
Select two shot types

Such as a range 18 deadly shot

>>47505032
Valachev can only be attached to units, not solos. Remind me again, which Merc units are snipers?

I'll give you a hint: None.

>>47505540
>They have no def tech anymore
You seriously overestimate the usefulness of Camo. I rarely had it come into play and I used Widowmakers in most of my lists.

>have nothing that makes their shot more fearful or flexible (Armor Piercing, different attack types, etc.) And are overpriced in comparison to other snipers when you regard all this.

Luckily you can bring 4-5 of them unlike other factions which are limited to a couple solos. Also, you're making the classic blunder of making 1:1 comparisons across factions instead of comparing them to the options available to the faction.

>>47506297
Blurry and badly painted.

>>47506208
Horgenhold arty has brutal damage on direct hit, is cheaper, and all arty can move and shoot now

Horgenhold arty is top 3 now. Top 3 are horgenhold mortar, khador mortar, skorne catapult. With the catapult probably tied for third with the riever cannon.

>>47506416
wot?

MAGELOCK RIFLE
ATTACK TYPE – Each time this weapon is used to make an attack,
choose one of the following special rules:
• DEADLY SHOT – Instead of making a damage roll to resolve an attack
with this weapon, you can choose to have a model hit by this
weapon suffer 3 damage points instead. A model disabled by this
attack cannot make a Tough roll.
• SNIPE – This attack gains +4 RNG.
• WARD BREAKER – When resolving this attack, this weapon gains
Blessed

>>47506448

oh snap!

>>47506416
Youre thinking the gun mage solo, rifleman only gets one type

>>47506384

To bad the ghost sniper don't have stealth or camouflage, sure seems like the name suggest such a thing (not to mention the book art!).....

>>47506438
Bringing multiple of them is literally 2 more weak shots on single wound models without def tech that will need more place on terrain to at least get cover or concealment. Those 2 additional shots are neither magical, threatening to anything not a singlewound trooper (bar the occasional single-hit-box-left jack/medium/solo/caster) and have no flexiblity attached to them in the form of at least a single special ability. So nope, more of them is not fair deal. They just aren't worth the points. Lower the cost down to 6, i might take em, seems fair for 4 dudes. But then, please don't call them "Widowmakers", because they are in no way a powerful sniper unit.

Im not sure why Widowmakers are useless now considering that Khador has more defensive Tech then ever.

>>47506699
In 40k terms, they are essentially ratling snipers. Which have to compare themselves with Vindicares. Yeah-Hah to that, PP...

>>47506737
They're not useless. You've just got a whiny bitch or two hyperbolically complaining.

>>47506438
Also, comparing units with the same expected utilities with each other is no blunder, it just gets repeatedly called that by the persons in such discussion who violently defend their newfound awesome toy. It's like the cryx players defending the utter fairness that was Bane Knight spam back in the old day's. Criticizing Banes was always "in a vacuum" and arguments from player experience and statistics where flukes and one-time occasions.

>>47506757
Like Camouflage was +2 to defense, and thats about it.

Like yeah, I see them worse against medium infantry, but thats the point of medium infantry.

If you want to compare apples to apples compare the Widowmaker Solo to the other Sniper Solos. In my mind he is quite on par. Slightly better and more expensive then the Ghost Sniper, and slightly worse but less expensive then the Cygnarian guy.

I would say the only thing Devaluing Widowmakers is the Kyazy having anatomical precision. But cheap ranged unit is cheap ranged unit.

>>47506737
Well for sure theyrnt useless, I would call'm highly underwhelming. What's that additional defensive options you're talking about? Arm does not deal any good to them, so the new flavorful but, well, "to be seen if good" Iron Flesh is more or less out of the picture for them. Spam them with clouds from Greylords? Nothing other Armies can't do or can't do better. Or they don't even need it because their marksmen got the stealth and prowl they deserve^^
Look on the WM Marksman, that's a solo one can life with. Are Widowmakers so powerful, that 4 of them cost double his value? I wouldn't say so :/

>>47506861
2 points per model is not cheap in my book. Or any book. Weren't Widomakers the original Snipers? Why does Cygnar get a good one (which is cool, he looks awesome on paper) when the original owners of the sniper guys get the mediocre version and the unit version even get's a not needed nerf? Quite understandable to rage about that imho, its not fair.

>>47503772
Personally I'm pretty tickled that it looks like she'll still work with Ret, so the freshly buffed Sentinels will appreciate the extra charge even more.

>>47506861
They also suck at solo hunting, picking out 5-Box Officers is risky on occasion, Blast damage is a quite sure kill on them and 'jacks have practically nothing to fear from them. They only can hunt singles or wounded solos with good results. And that's not worth 2 points per guy.

>>47506834
>violently defend
Could you fuck off and not come back again since you're so goddamn retarded.

No one is violently defending shit in Warmachine. I have not once seen someone throw a punch or a chair over Bane knights.

>>47506991
They will indeed. It's a shame it's model not model/unit. It's better for giving beasts and jacks some love.

>>47505286
I think the gas thing is okay. You can hit a heavy warbeast with it if you don't feel confident of killing in one round for whatever reason to stop the warlock from trivially healing back aspects.

>>47507051

So, did you have a problem with them in Mk2? Cause those are all issues they had in Mk2 and they saw plenty of table time.

>>47506384

So pretty comparable. The Ghost Sniper is a little worse but he's also 3/4 the price and just as good if you plan to put holes in jacks.

>>47507157
It's not about having a problem and not bringing them if you have. It's about nerfing them now without also nerfing the cost or alternatively use the mk3 rollover to bring them up to par with the rest of the snipery bunch. Keeping them on the level they were on, ok, that would've been ok-ish, But nerfing them, handing out better snipers to other factions and no lowering the point cost? That's a problem. And come one, +2 Def is A LOT in this system, we know that.

>>47507051

Do you also feel as threatened by the Iosan Ghost Sniper? As he's got just as much offence as the Gunmage and he's even cheaper.

>>47506297
Not good
No they are not
Slayer still has the same problems

>>47507259
>And come one, +2 Def is A LOT in this system, we know that.

I'm going to be honest, I rarely got much use out of Camo despite using the shit out of Widowmakers. Honestly, I think you're massively overstating the negative impact of its removal.

And who cares if other factions got good sniper models or even if they're better than Widowmakers? It's not like you're having to choose between Widowmakers and Arcane Riflemen. What matters is if Widowmakers are a viable option in faction and they are.

>>47507259
And still, all the other snipers have some kind of flexibility to them, no matter if its deadly shot for better jack and solo damage, a magical weapon or some other additional rule above Sniper+Marksmen, there is no reason to not hand such a thing out to Widowmaker as well. Give them new weapons over the timeskip. Why the hell not. The POW10 on a hunting rifle with sniper being a single damage point and tough denial, that is just subpar without any kind of rule on top.

>>47507303
I find him balanced better, no magical weapon, he's right on par with the Marksman as a solo, just a point worse on the Rat, which justifies the cost reduction in comparison to the Marksman, He's fair. The Arcane is ruleswise over the top, his rifle should for example not be allowed to reach RNG 18, that makes using Arcane Precision way to easy. Aiming should be more of a gamble for such a model. Powerwise, the Tempest Sniper should cost 1-2 points more, he would be fair, but the gap between him and the other Sniper Solos shouldn't be that big. Also, FA:1 or even C, not more than a Marksman.

My problem is not with the solo, but the unit be so shitty. Look at other ranged options we have. They are just nerfed, and haven't any role not fillable by another Khadoran with ease.

>>47507399
but they want to move away from infantrymachine.

if you have units with the individual model power equivalent of a solo, something is wrong.

only problem i can see with the scouts is the lack of buffs in faction. they're good because they're rat7 advanced deploy pathfinders with the ability to auto-delete-on-hit standard infantry and plink away at multiwound models - possibly taking out a system or last hitting more efficiently.

but they're not wonderful. which is ok. khador isn't cygnar. khador isn't even ret. but the widowmaker scouts provide a service that might plug a hole in an army list.

>>47507557
but it is cygnar.
accurate ranged is what they (are supposed to) do.
rng18 ignores stealth is decent. but it is pow 10. they have pow10 magic pistols. this is a magic rifle.

widowmaker marksman gets pow12, is rat 8, has advanced deploy, pathfinder and stealth.
in a faction not known for being gun mages...

>>47507760
And get's fucked over right by the Rifleman. They have Gun Mages, I love Gun Mages, in fact, Cygnar is my second faction, I OWN Gun Mages, almost exclusively (whole Gun Mage Strike Force, Caine+Mages+Officers+Captain Adepts+Blazers) but I still think, Gun Mages does not translate to "Firearm Mages".
Cygnar should NOT have a "Sniper Mage" at that Level, when it's not a character. FA:2 basicly means they have quite some to go around. Translate that to fluff, just for 'fun'. It's easier to find a special kind of mage in Cygnar than it is in Khador to find a good shot. Seriously? The fact alone that the WM Marksman has Stealth as his feature of defense and the Rifleman gets exactly the feature he needs to circumvent that, instead of ignoring concealment and cover or something alike is bullshit, isn't it?

>>47507917
Dude, stop. You are in serious danger of hypernatremia if you keep going like this.

>>47507917

> Gun Mages does not translate to "Firearm Mages".

Sure it does. Gunmages can work with literally any gun. That's part of the fluff for them and has been since 3.5

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>yfw no matter how much khador gets buffed, khadorfags still shit up every thread with their bitching

>>47503315
What happened to cryx? i know banes lost stealth and the ua lost tough but everything else should be fine right?

>>47507760
Cygnar always had great ranged game. No reason to nerf and disgrace the sniper Khador already had with Cygnar just quicking a better one up.

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>>47503481
>tfw picking up Cinerators on the cheap

>>47507953
In that case, awesome Snipers are Khadoran fluff. Also, Khadoran Bitching? Yeah, I bitch about exactly one unit, not about one of my factions being underpowerd over all. I don't look foward to being called powergame or red cryx because the balance scale is off again. If Jack Spam ist Khadors new OP, I play Cavalary Spam, if our Units are overall "too tanky1" for my local meta, I bring out Winterguard etc.

>>47507978

I've got some bad news for you anon...

>>47508072
>In that case, awesome Snipers are Khadoran fluff.

What? How is that related?

I was correcting you about being wrong about how gunmages work.

TT gunmages using pistols is purely due to the unit type, not due to how Gunmages work.

>>47507948
Any counter arguments? Being salty is not being wrong. Prove me wrong, I can take that, discussion appreciated, but salty, who cares, you're allowed to be mad about your units being nerfed, too. At least, when they neither deserved or get outmatched just for PP's fun^^

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>>47508081
Well tell me anon.

>>47508103
I play Khador and I'm telling you right now you're full of shit. Widowmakers are fine.

Are they outdone by other factions' stuff? Maybe, but who the fuck cares? The only relevant question is whether or not they are a viable option in Khador and they are. It doesn't matter if other factions have things that do the same job better because they don't have to compete with army space for those things.

If you're so jealous of Cygnar's fucking snipers, go play Cygnar and leave Khador to the real men.

>>47508133
All Cryx units suck now. There are literally no good Cryx units anymore (except Satyxis Gunslingers).

>>47508165
wut??? What changed?

>>47508173
Everything.

>>47508199
I missed the imgur links, can you give me an details?

>>47508101
Because "How Gun Mages work" is a Fluff thing. Rulewise, they are Pistoleers, we all know that. It's per fluff okay for Cygnar to have a magical Sniper, but gamewise not when that new model outmatches the abilities of corresponding models in other factions without beeing much pricier. It's just not good designed from a balance perspective and not a good addition treatment wise, when other factions should not be left behind so far like it happens here. Don't take away some other factions thing, give it magic and tune it up to eleven. Wheres the Khadoran light Jack? The Arcnode? The Skorne unit with pathfinder? If Cygnar needs a good Sniper, all this things need to become reality, too^^

>>47508230
Every card has the rule:

Cryx Unit: UR A FAGT YOUR OPPONENT WINS

>>47508230
You're being trolled you autistic shitcock.

It was Skorne, then Cryx and now Khador.

>>47508165
Thats not entierly true. Bane Knights are still very potent and Satyxis Blood Witches might have gotten a buff. Traded 1 speed for stealth and their clouds & incorp off of friendlies is not bad. Plus you can have 2 blood hags now.

Expect the pDenny gunline and pSkarre Dirty Thirty to survive into early mkiii

>>47508249

I love how it is LITERALLY 'Ghost Sniper+' but the Retribution players are not giving a shit here.

Also: Strong Ranged Game has kinda always been Cygnar's thing.

>>47508249

You are so full of shit. Ranged bullshit has always been in Cygnar's wheelhouse. "Snipers" is not a fucking Khador exclusive design element. Give it a rest.

>>47508249
Cygnar are the supreme ranged faction, they sacrifices things in other areas to get better shooting. Next you will claim Cryx shouldn't be allowed better debuffs than other factions and Retribution shouldn't have better assassination solos than other factions. These are faction defining models and the points cost takes into account faction identity.

>>47508254
Ok, not sure how I'm being autistic but ok.

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>http://www.megafileupload.com/b2g2/Retribution_deck.pdf

>http://www.megafileupload.com/b2g3/Legion.pdf

>http://www.megafileupload.com/b2g4/Skorne_deck.pdf

>http://www.megafileupload.com/b2g5/Protectorate_deck.pdf

>http://www.megafileupload.com/b2g6/Minions_deck.pdf

>http://www.megafileupload.com/b2g7/Merc_deck.pdf

>http://www.megafileupload.com/b2g9/Khador_deck.pdf

>http://www.megafileupload.com/b2ga/Cryx_deck.pdf

>http://www.megafileupload.com/b2gb/Convergence_deck.pdf

>http://www.megafileupload.com/b2gc/Circle_deck.pdf

>>47508309
Don't fall for any of this shit.

>>47507973
Think you got Khador and Skorne mixed up there bud.

>>47508173

Basically, Cryx is now in relative balance with the rest of the factions.

Skill-less Cryx players (which is unfortunately a relatively high proportion) who relied on overpowered infantry to not lose horribly are butt-devastated. Reasonable Cryx players often grumble a bit because of how much stuff changed, but really, no one with a functional intellect expected "moar banez" to survive the edition change.

>>47508144
If I'm full of shit, I beg you, climb out of me.
I care, because such things are simply not needed additions. Are they a viable option? No, they are not, you hump of dump, because single wound killing can be done by almost anything. Especially if the other option is a 2 point per guy poser unit. Taking it up the ass without complaining and not putting out critique about stuff while demand from others to do the same? Yeah, a "real men" you are indeed. brave and outspoken. I don't wan't all armies to be the same fucking goo with diffrent paint slabbed on, so keep the special stuff to specific factions.

>>47508296
>doesn't understand social cues
>Gets trolled for it
>"I don't know how I'm being autistic"

Jesus fuck..

>>47508358
If you honestly believe that Widowmakers are unusable shit now, then you are a complete idiot.

If they weren't unusable before, why the fuck would they be now? Nothing about their offensive output has changed. You just see another faction's new hotness and you're jealous. That's all this is. Get the fuck over it.

>>47508358

Then bitch first about the Retribution.

Or let the Retribution bitch first. As 'Deadly Shot Solo Sniper with Rat 7' came to them first.

>>47508280
Not a Retribution Player, so I can't put out a backed argument about how Retribution works as a whole, but yeah, they should have a problem with the blues stealing stuff . Also, I play Cygnar, it's not a "BUT MUAH FACTION!" Thing. Gun Mages are my main army.

>>47503023
for somone thats not keeping up with warmachines put pops up once in a month. did anything exciting become know the past weeks?

(also i forgot when the launch was) does it launch in europe at the same time

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>>47508249
You mean the faction primarily focused on ranged attacks has better ranged options than other factions? What a shock!

>Khador, Skorne

Oh now it makes sense.

>>47508428
We have cards for everything that's been released for Mk3, at least in near final forms.

The release date is the same for Europe, but it appears PP has fucked up their supply line, so there's not going to be a lot of merchandise delivered on time.

>>47508422

I AM a Retribution player.

I don't particularly give a shit. I kinda wish Ghost Snipers had picked up Stealth or something (It's kinda in the name) but Cygnar getting a good ranged guy doesn't hurt me. They had plenty of good ranged guys as it was.

>>47508443
Skorne was the first thing that came to my mind, I don't play them, Cygnar and Khador are my factions. And I play Cygnar mainly, still :P
If ranged was the Cygnar game, take away all of Khadors ranged weapons, but give Khador everything in cygnar with Arm 19 and above. Armor is the Khador thing. Widowmaker always were the Snipers, and the Khadoran Sniper, to be precise (he he, Snipers. Precise.) They should just not be outgamed so hard.

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>>47508512
>now just switching to extremes
No. Just stop.

>>47508512

They are not outgamed

Point out another unit of snipers in the game. Something that can evaporate a whole unit of shield guard troops.

Other factions still only get Solo snipers.

>>47508422
As a retribution player I like it because it fits the factions identities fine.

I get good melee solos and good ranged solos for assassination. If the ranged faction gets my good ranged solo then I'm fine with that, same as I'm fine with the melee faction getting my good melee solos. It's overlap in design space and they're both using them in different ways to I am.

>>47508317

Why not? It's legit you just need to have adblock turned off on the page to download the PDFs.

>>47508615

I do kinda wish that more focus would be given to Retribution's other theme, combined arms.

Assassination is fun but I really love stuff like how House Guard Riflemen can fire into melee without much worry of hurting your own guys and how much stuff can advance through it's allies.

From the Circle Facebook group:

>It gets a super advanced deploy but the mouth can't move after. Tentacles can be sacrificed to drag a model to the mouth which then gets a pow 15 attack...I think it's a max 11" drag because of cmd range iirc. Tentacles are pretty weak but it can spawn one a turn and can activate straight away. The mouth has high arm and takes one less dice on damage.

So who's got the Legion spoiler? There are French versions of all of the sets with old stuff and Mk3 Prime stuff out there, but we've only seen Cygnar and Trolls so far.

Does anyone have a link to the troll blood leak? I have seen every deck but that one so far.

So did we ever figure out what Magnus was going to do with all those Galleons? Are they going to be Cygnar units now?

>>47508249
>>47508249


Skorne swordsmen naturally have pathfinder on the charge, skorne immortals can get pathfinder with UA. Skorne ferox have pathfinder. Any other skorne unit can be given pathfinder by the Tyrant Commander who is a far superior form of Saxon Orrik.

wat u mean "where is the skorne unit with pathfinder" ?...

>>47505914
CoC has changed more than I think it looks, the changes are just pretty small.

Overall, I think Mother got a lot better. The new Induction means her ranged game is that much better, she gets to cast more of her spells, and being a 15/17 seems great. Her servitors also picked up Gun Fighter and benefit from her feat now, which most certainly makes up for the loss of the Arc Node

Aurora's new spell promises to be fucking hilarious. Flight is so much better than Pathfinder, and her new feat, while losing her terrible assassination, is overall better for her army. I think her ability to absolutely ignore the enemy battle lines is going to fuck up a lot of lists.

Almost all of our shit got cheaper, and most of it got buffed.

The TEP got fucking buffed, even if as written it doesn't work.

>>47506603
Noone gets camouflage, it was removed from the game.

>>47508747
Problem with combined arms is they pretty much covered it already. You have the tanky ones and the stealthy ones. What's left is er.. croak hunters?

As a Retribution player I don't feel I lack anything I want. They filled up the design space pretty well as is.

>>47509556
Would you prefer it if the story became such that there is no more Ret faction, just Ios under Vyros' military dictatorship?

>>47506438

Atleast there is one good khador player in this thread. I really don't understand all the tears. If I need a magic sniper i take kell. If I want a sniper who is hard to kill I take the marksmen. If I want volume of attacks I take widowmakers. If I want utility I take eiryss. And if I want to shoot units off the table I take all of them.

Isn't Ashley a sniper now with deadly shot?

You could kill a heavy before it can even become a threat with that much sniper damage... I don't understand why camouflage was so important. They ability to ignore tough is fucking huge for me. I took widows to clear charge lanes and they can do exactly that better than ever.

>>47509589
Why would I give a fuck? The story will never end, it will continue to grow over and over

Oh no Trolls are in danger, so they have to bring out the fire trolls
Oh no, the dires weren't enough so they have to bring out Mulg
Oh no Mulg isn't enough so they have to bring out the Mountain king!
Oh no..

It doesn't matter because it has no relation to the game. Is there even any one outside of Eiryss who even cares about other versions of themselves?

>>47509640
>Is there even any one outside of Eiryss who even cares about other versions of themselves?

What?

>>47509415
>The TEP got fucking buffed, even if as written it doesn't work.
How so for both?

Can I still make faggots enter my magical realm of stalling the game forever?

>>47507917

I agree with the fluff part. 1. If one thinks those rifles are as common as to allow FA2, your simply falling in to pp´s marketing trap.
2. And as you say, those mages seems to "pop up" everywhere, instead of being as rare as you could get.

I personally think that there is a core of lore fanboys at the center of privateer press, that gets repressed by the marketing division in a "yes, while it would certainly be cool to have a one of a kind named marksman armed with a rifle, you could make it a regular gun mage and FA2, so it earns us money to keep going!".

This can be seen in other circumstances as well, where you get the feeling that a part of privateer really wants to stay true to the lore and the look of the game (such as deducting a -1 to many HI, because that armor must be heavy). But at the same time, neglecting this thought when wanting things that sells really bad, to just be "that good" so everyone wants them, regardless of fluff reasons.

We have to remember, that this is first and foremost a company, and it will look to its survival above all. They cant produce in the rapid phase of GW, throwing new toys every week, and they know most of the vets already has everything in the current meta, and sticking to the caster of their choice. Now, how do we make money? New customers most certainly, but how do we make the vets spend without looking like GW and make a Age of Warmahordes?

>>47509691

> Repressed....

I meant oppressed, but fuck it, you know what I wanted to say.

>>47509687
TEP is RAT5 POW11 now

However, it requires you to place the servitors completely within 1" of the TEP, which is obviously impossible.

And yea, Lucant still bricks pretty fucking hard. He got a couple soft nerfs, the biggest one being Watcher, but Recips are still 8 wounds, and you can still bring one back every turn at full health. The only thing it lost is it's ability to make an attack the turn it comes back, but that doesn't actually matter.

Change to Shield Wall is a decent enough buff against fire causing lists for Recips as well.

And Lucant's new feat(+4 ARM and +2 to all repair check rolls) is hilarious now. Mechanics are healing a minimum of 4 damage each now, letting you restore a huge amount of damage from the opponents Alpha.

>>47509653
No one plays multicaster games and no one but Eiryss has an epic version outside of casters as I recall.

>>47509779
I think they might want to say "each one" as in, each has to be 1'' apart from the TEP tops

>>47509795
Alexia.

Warcaster characters are about not being able to bring the same caster in your two list pair.

>>47509799
No, they changed every instance of "Within" to "Completely within" in the game. The TEP just got the change without consideration of how it doesn't work.

>>47509820
They removed that from steam roller now, models can be in any list. It's a shame as it forced interesting list decisions.

>>47509943
They removed character restrictions in list building for everything BUT warcasters.

You still can't pair the same caster in a two list format, you can just put pEyriss in both lists now.

Can any1 post the circle cards?

>>47508309
>>47510124
Last deck here.

Is it true that they're not going to update the IKRPG to fit with Mk. 3? If so, how hard do you think it will be to homebrew rules conversions?

>>47510374
They are just gonna release a bunch of update rules in the no quarter magazines.

Is there a Blood of Kings or NQ 66 pdf floating around?

>>47509589

I'd honestly prefer if the Retribution was disbanded as an in-universe faction and the mage hunters intragrated with Ios' military. Give more room for stuff other than 'Mages must all die!' with Ios' goals.

>>47509691

>I personally think that there is a core of lore fanboys at the center of privateer press, that gets repressed by the marketing division in a "yes, while it would certainly be cool to have a one of a kind named marksman armed with a rifle, you could make it a regular gun mage and FA2, so it earns us money to keep going!".

How? Gun mages can work with literally any firearm. Heck, even the correct material is only required to prevent long-term damage to the weapon rather than to allow them to fire in the first place.

Heck, the RPG which has been out for quite a while now puts 'Magelock Rifle' as STARTING GEAR for gunmages.

>>47511033
If I remember right, even the original IKRPG had Magelock rifles.

>>47510374

I honestly hope they don't.

Warcasters were already one of the most powerful character options in the RPG. Giving them power up and changing Marshals would make playing a Jack Marshal a joke compared to playing a warcaster.

That and the '-5 from one damage roll' is a lot better in an RPG where you'll be taking less hits than in a TT game where an entire unit of riflemen can unload into you.

>>47510925
NQ66 was posted in a previous thread.
Looking for blood of kings myself

Wrath of the dragonfather pdf anyone?

>>47511172
>Giving them power up
That would actually be a good thing, because Warcasters in the RPG don't give a flying fuck about warjacks, the powerful Warcaster builds go the Stryker2 route and murder fuckers with their ability to buy and boost attacks with a two-handed mechanika weapon. Plus warjacks in the RPG are weenie little bitch machines because they just copy-pasted their tabletop stats while every character that isn't a warjack is waaaaaay more powerful than it's tabletop equivalent.

So is anyone else excited to play mk3? I play circle, legion and menoth and I'm amp'ed for all three factions. However, I keep going on the forums and its just the same few people having a shit fit about the changes.

>>47511483

I disagree heavily. Giving them the ability to murder stuff AND run a warjack or two would get silly.

Warjacks are equipment for real characters, not characters themselves and yet Warcasters and Jack Marshals already outclass other PCs. They don't need a buff.

Though, I personally think they should have given all archtypes some limited ability to buy attacks/boosts. Rather than having 'Only warcasters may do this and thus win at everything'

>>47511208
Ok. Any idea how many threads back?

>>47511532

I'm disappointed with some Legion changes (poor Zuriel), but in general I'm excited to see how things shake out.

>>47503023
So for mk3 I'm thinking about running pBorka with Rok, a mauler, the krielstone boat, the champion boat and fire eaters. What else could I include?

Does anyone have the trollblood leak? The imgur album seems to be gone.

>>47505914


You besides their main focus steroid mechanic basically tripling in efficiency?

Yeah, nothing

>>47511532
I gotta say.... as a Trollblood player I'm really just not excited for very much at all. Trollbloods aren't a bad faction, but man I feel underwhelmed by a lot of things (I'm not even very excited for Madrak-2 since I'm almost totally certain he will be nerfed soon enough).

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>>47511783
>>47512163


My thoughts so far after some Mk III;

Rok seems good
Mulg seems ok
Axer still good
Mauler still good
EBDT seems lost
Bouncer seems ok
Pyre probably only elemental that's good

Champs are garbage
Warders seem good again
Single wound infantry just die to anything

Overall, pretty underwhelming...but even more alarming, it's fucking boring to play.

Totally uninspired design.

Man, new Kodiaks are divine. They fit into every caster.

Their relative cheapness, infantry clearing (Auto hit 1 inch thresher), speed boost, cloud generation, throwing or knockdown.

I think everybody will love this Jack.

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>>47512292
>Overall, pretty underwhelming...but even more alarming, it's fucking boring to play.
That's exactly what I'm thinking as I'm trying to make lists. I'm tooling around with a Madrak-1 list and after getting his battlegroup together I'm just thinking, "Hrmmm... what boring units and solos do I want to bring with him?"

He was one of my favorite 'locks in Mk. 2 (he wasn't good, but he was fun) and now everything is just so boring. Not necessarily bad, but just boring. I'm so sad that Caber Tossers got Single Shot and that the Slag lost +2 damage. Everything in Trolls is just so... eh.

>>47512321
>>47512366

And more alarming still, is that now with points increasing and focus on jacks, skew lists are going to become even worse. Brought a balanced list? Sorry! I just picked;


Butcher 1
--Jugger
--Jugger
--Jugger
--Zerker
--Zerker
--Zerker
--Kodiak
--Ruin
...and 3 units of mechanics.

Hope one of your lists can handle that!

>>47509511
A lot of things with camouflage had it replaced though. Like kossites replaced it with prowl.

>>47512366

Sadly, a lot of lists are going to be;

Madrak
--Fairly big battle group

Warders
Warders
Stone
...and whatever else.

Warders soak shots for beasts, Madrak will never die in that list and his feat will take care of any infantry. Hell, his feat and Madrak alone can take care of any infantry. Good luck killing him when he ends his killing frenzy around the board camping 8 fury.

I am personally excited for trollbloods. Almost all of our heavys got buffed and the 2 that did not got changed in pertty ok ways. Mulg still kept most of what made him good. He still has the highest base arm, highest hp, and the highest base pow on his weapons. The other one, the earthborn is an completly diffrent animal than what he was. He will not set the world on fire but he still has more hp than the mauler and has the highest possible arm and melee threat in the faction. Not the star of a list but a great beast to buff. So with beast point costs droping almost across the board beast heavy has never been more viable in trolls.

>>47511862
Seconding this. I've got everything else, but managed to miss the trolls.

>>47512701

>Mulg still kept most of what made him good

Are you on drugs? He lost protective fit, lost a Fury, lost a POW, lost a speed buff if they damaged him, lost the extra attack with Doomy.

So, with Doomy, which is where you usually saw Mulg;

He lost two attacks
Lost a POW
Lost any speed buff
Lost Protective Fit

Those ARE the things that made Mulg good. There's a reason he is only 19 points in Mark 3. They nerfed the hell out of him.

And he doesn't have "the" highest ARM or highest POW on his weapons. Dozer has base ARM 19, Rok has base POW 18, which are the same as Mulg.

EBDT lost a Fury and his terrific animus. Which is not a given he will be highest ARM anymore since you can't bring a wall.
Mauler got cheaper/better
Blitzers got marginally better
Bombers are probably about the same, maybe better since they skip the Impaler tax.

Lights universally got worse across the board due to Self Animus now. Pyre is probably ok, Slag is pretty garbage, Bouncer got a bit better, Storm Troll is still ok I guess, Winter Troll is still trash. Axer got a bit worse but still good.

Any one want to give me a jumping off point for some Retribution lists? I'm looking at Ossyah, Rahn and Garryth. Playing the shit out of them and then picking 2 for serious tournament play.

>>47512925
Almost every single super killer heavy in the game got nerfed, it's not like Mulg had his damage hit while no one else did.

Anyone got eyes on the Ret cards for the Lys Healer and Ellowyr Swordsmen from Mk III Prime. The spoiled deck for Ret only has Mk II updates not new models.

>>47513117

Yes, I know.

I was responding to the absurd post of "Mulg still kept most of what made him good". Hence the quote in my post.

Big dumb inf spam list

Irusk 2 +27

Behemoth 24

Rager 11

Sea Dog Pirates 13
Valachev 4

Hawk 4

Doc 4

Winter Guard 11
3 rocketeers 6
UA 4

Joe 4

Mortar 5

Field Gun 4

Sylys 4

Koldun Lord 4

Pirates with battle lust are brutal, and he's giving tough, steady, and blast immune to lots of shit with a 14 inch solid ground. Joe lets me extend the tough range on the winter guard or lets them pull off pow 12 battle lusted charges, or accurate brutal damage rocket shots from long range. There's a good bit of boosted shooting, between powerful attack bombards and cycling FFE on the artillery. Irusk has to play forward to keep infantry in his tough bubble, hence the rager. Rager is capable of doing some work with his pow 15 gun if he's close enough, especially if the koldun lord ice cages something. Vs heavy armor, Behemoth can go melee and delete most heavies, and the high pow boosted shots plus winter guard CRAs will do work. Won't stand up to a true jack spam list and will have to really work together to take down a colossal, but will completely shred any kind of heavy infantry skew because of Hawk. Each pirate model is capable of killing a fully buffed warder when gang is up and battle lust is used. Doc works on friendly privateers rather than friendly faction, meaning the sea dogs are 4+ tough and steady when in irusks's control area.

>>47513408
And my point is that Mulg might still be one of the heaviest hitters in the entire game, it's just that the standard of a heavy hitter in general has gone down.

You can't complain that Mulg's damage output got nerfed when absolutely everyone's damage output got nerfed. It's a change to the core mechanics of the game.

Don't Hawk and Doc only affect faction friendly models or some shit?

>>47513504
Nope! They affect friendly privateers. They don't care if the privateers are merc or khador.

>>47513504
they do "Sea Dogs"

i understand ranking officers make their unit faction as well as what they are.
so
khador sea dogs

>>47513465
And honestly, I might drop the winter guard UA. With what this list is going for, not sure I need the sprays or reposition. Can put those points towards a widowmaker marksman, or a manhunter, or another field gun. Something that can put a few damage onto an armored target to help out.

>>47513516
>>47513539

Well that's actually kind of sweet then. lol

>>47513556
If I dropped the UA and made the rager into a berserker, I could fit in an artillery kapitan and a field gun. That'd leave Irusk without a shield guard and relying on LOS blocking, but it could be nice.

>>47511580
I actually still had it in my history
http://www60.zippyshare.com/v/S5o0KN38/file.html

Any live links to the spoiled cards?

>>47513476

I can list a number of jacks and beasts that hit harder and didn't get touched. So not every heavy hitter got notched down.


And again, regardless, read my OP. I was responding to the comment "Mulg still kept most of what made him good".

He absolutely did not. If you want to debate me, debate that.

>>47513652
You can list heavies and beasts that hit as hard as Mk2 Mulg that didn't get touched?

Could you do so?

>>47513671
what's the magic word?

>>47513683
You're actually lying and you can't?

>>47513688
i wasn't suggesting i could. you got the wrong anon.

>>47513628
>http://www60.zippyshare.com/v/S5o0KN38/file.html

Oh hey thanks mate. :)

>>47513671
Its funny because no heavy, and most gargaossals did not hit as hard as mulg.

>>47513760
Did Mulg beat an enraged bronzeback?

>>47513827
Certain casters made the BB better, of course, Mulg was dependent on Runeshaper.

>>47513827
Mulg in mk2 had 6 pow 23s at reach and a pow 20 at .5 melee. Correct me if i am wrong but the bronzeback had 7 pow 19s a pow 18 and a pow 14 headbutt. So it depends on the target who does more.

>>47513908
Pow 18 headbutt, Hard Head.

>>47513908
Under Xerxis1, the BB had 7POW22s, a POW21 and a POW21 Headbutt. And under feat it's got an extra die of damage to every attack.

And the BB gets to add the tusk POW to the headbutt, by the way.

>>47513965
There is that, but people didn't really use it with xerxis.

A better comparison would be Morghoul 1 with Abuse giving it +2 str and +2 spd. Or Rasheth with his various arm debuffs.

>>47513965
in which edition?

if you're talking mk3 i might get into skorne

because that sounds fun. even if everything else drowns in salt.

>>47514004
The Fist variant that doesn't use Karn absolutely brought a BB instead.

warmahords
is the pc game as bad as i've heard?

>>47514027
I mainly saw tibbers though

>>47514019
MK2.

The point is that Mk3 has toned of this super damage stuff down.

Xerxis lost Fury, though he did get a +2 to damage order, but it only counts for the first attack.

Kept his additional die on feat though, so he can still hit like a truck.

>>47514031

Not as bad, but still pretty bad.

>>47514050
All depends on what they wanted. All three variants were good.