Because it wont be alive unless someone starts a thread-edition
Topic starter: Ronin; do you play them? Do GM's allow them? Are they totally shit?
Yes, yes, and yes.
If a ronin wants to not be shit, he needs to focus entirely on getting better skills and stats, because they aren't going to be getting any techniques that can be used as a crutch.
>>47490211
What Ronin techniques are worth hunting for? IMO rank 1 Forest Killers and The Tessen are on par with some great clan techniques.
>>47490180
Honestly if you want to play a Ronin game, play 3e or 3eR. Both have decent to godly ronin schools. 3e's version of the Ronin Duelist is insane in the membrane and should have been called the Ronin Assassin School.
>>47490651
>insane in the membrane
I like you.
>>47490651
Personally, I think that ronin shouldn't be that great. They don't have the support structures to make truly great schools and techniques (The great clan stuff took centuries to refine) and most of them don't have much in the way of training or education. A badass ronin should be badass because of hard work and natural aptitude, not because he learned a super technique that should by all rights not even exist in the setting.
>>47490651
What do you think of 4th editions generic/ronin school?
>>47490180
are there any schools that favor a larger sword like a nodachi?
>>47490704
Alternatively, the Ronin should be willing to take on styles that are either self-destructive, prohibited, or outright crazy. Maybe they're not better than the main schools, but they might cheat like a motherfucker or allow moves that aren't as technically superior, but are often effective.
I don't think it's worthwhile in a system to make an entire character archetype straight-up worse at everything than everything else, but the ronin should be an uphill battle where they're scrambling for bonuses. Maybe a school that gives extra bonuses for ganging up on a target with your buddies, or that gives a bonus every time you suddenly switch weapons mid-fight as you try to take the advantage. It'd be at least fun.
Last session an NPC found their weapon in my room, am I guilty?
I didn't actually take it, but from what I read of the law, this is pretty damning, right?
>>47490825
Nodachi are curious as the share the same damage model as a Tetsubo, but unlike the Tetsubo few schools focus on weapons with only the "large' keyword. That being said, while the badger school does not mention Nodachi, their fluff does. The Shark clan from the cut minor clans did focus on the Nodachi.
>>47490853
Interestingly enough this is how 4e ranks break down. They either reward having a high honor and fighting those with less honor, reward dirty tactics, or reward fighting alongside others.
>>47490949
Better hope your party has a Kitsuki
>>47491030
>Better hope your party has a Kitsuki
Oh they do!It's me
>>47491030
Many schools have members that focus on different weapons (The Crab have chain weapon specialists even), but to actually have a capital T Technique requires either A: A singular prodigy who develops their own Technique, then manages to rank as a sensei, petition the clan to run their own special dojo, and successfully teach it to people who can then take over as sensei for that special training when the original developer eventually croaks
or
B: A concerted effort from many of the clan's sensei to develop a Technique over the course of generations.
It's been stated that there are people who make their own techniques, but never get to pass them on, and there are special dojo that train skills (Like the Crab chain specialists) that haven't developed a Technique yet (And might never do so because the circumstances don't line up).
How often do you see ronin with high honor, or who act in an honorable way? Does being a wave man automatically make someone an honorless dog?
>>47491030
what were the shark clan like?
>>47491346
Complete douchebags. Literally just jumped up bandit hedonists who were only tolerated because they had Imperial protection and their closest neighbor (the Crane) were given special Imperial favors to not crush them for being a bunch of literal actual bandits.
>>47491438
>not JAWESOME
iamdissapoint.jpg
>>47491438
shitty. i was hoping they were a cool minor clan like the monkey
>>47491724
>monkey
>actually being minor
I mean, I know what it says, but comeon.
>>47490180
Topic starter: Ronin; Are they totally shit?
Yes. Both mechanics and meta wise. The Ronin Schools are mediocre at best, and the setting treats Ronin like shit unless you are playing a Clan War era game and/or join the Mary Sue Ronin Brotherhood.
>>47490714
It is shit.
>>47490825
IIRC, the Monkey Bushi techniques are all based on Kenjutsu weapons, meaning that they can be used with nodaichi, and there are quite few cards and art pieces that picture monkey clan bushi wielding nodaichi, including toku himself.
>>47491724
>>Monkey Clan
>>Not being a total kolat front
>>47492620
>kolat
your tinfoil hat is showing.
>>47492704
There is no such thing as the hidden temple.
>>47490714
>>47490180
mechanically ronin are subpar, to put it mildly.
The ronin techniques range from (almost) equal to great clan techniques, to absolutely awful.
Their big problem comes from two factors, however.
First off, there aren't that many ronin schools, even less that are worth the tme it takes to write them down on your sheet, ,and not a lot of these are made to synergise. So your options are limited from the start. The biggest chokepoint in this are the "attack as a simple action"techniques, which is essential for keeping up after insight 3. There are not a lot of them, and all of them are horribly limited in some way (or, like the Kaeru technique, just plain awful).
Secondly, as a ronin your access to these techniques is completely in the hands of the DM. You are not entiteled to a new technique each time you level your insight rank, the book even states outright that ronin should not get a lot of these techniques. I could argue about the in-setting accesability of these techniques, or roleplay requirements for getting them, but in the end it comes down to whether your DM want's you to have them or not.
If the DM want's to cooperate and cut you some slack to keep you on the same level as the clan bushi, you might be able to build something that can keep up. If not, you are just fucked.
>>47492704
>>Founded by a peasant
>>Approved by an Emperor who was trained by a Kolat Master and may well have been a Kolat himself with how bad he fucked up the Celestial Order
>>Suddenly has some the best techniques in the Empire
>>Super honorable awesome guys everyone loves
Not only does the Monkey exemplify kolat philosophy it is incredibly well funded and protected. They are totally a kolat organization. Master Tiger might well be their daimyo.
>>47492787
or they are as they seem and are just a clan of non-assholes that never gets out of minor clan status because they don't fuck over others.
>>47490180
There are only 6 Samurai in the picture
>>47493096
Plot twist. The viewer is the seventh.
>>47492787
The main problem with that theory is that the Scoorpion are so close to the Toku that they could probably claim them as a vessel family if they wanted, and somehow never found out that all of them are Kolat agents.
If the empire's official backstbbing sceming bastards can't find any dirt on them, they are probably clean.
>>47493146
Well the Sscorpion never found the Kolat until the Kolat revealed themselves to combat the lying darkness. Really, the Kolat never did anything wrong.
>>47493146
And yet the Scorpion had no idea that Shinjo Yokatsu and Akodo Kage were both Kolat Masters. I am a huge Scorpion-fag but they are far from infallible, in fact their own hubris about being the schemingest schemers that ever schemed has allowed enemies of the empire to put one over on them.
>>47493146
*vassal, not that it matters.
What >>47493294 says is really true. The Kolat snuck right under the Scorpion's nose for a thousand plus years, largely because the Scorpion thought they were the smartest people in the room.
>>47493096
Actually there are only five samurai in the picture.Mifune's character isn't a real samurai, he's a peasant with a stolen sword.
>>47493421
I'll bet you money the poster was assuming all the characters from the film were in the shot, and simply didn't count.
>>47493294
there may be kolat members and supporters in the monkey clan, or all clans, but i seriously doubt the whole clan in a kolat front
>>47493609
I'll bet you money the file name was on the image before the poster found it.
Hint:it was
How would I go about finding a game of this to get into?Don't say GameFinder, literally no GM ever leaves their info there for L5R
>>47493796I literally found an L5R game in Gamefinder a few weeks ago
>>47493796
Well posting in these threads ain't a bad start. A game just started from interested people the other week. Roll20 and the looking for a group subreddit ain't bad either.
>>47493623
It doesn't take the whole clan for it to be a front. Even the Ox wasn't 100% Kolat. All it takes is the leadership and a handful of other key positions to control a clan. Just look at how the Unicorn were kolat puppets until Shinjo's purge, and even she didn't get every kolat in the clan. It would be even easier with a tiny clan like the Monkey.
>Send party back in time to Tengoku with help of second Gate of Oblivion... turns out trolls back in the day uncovered the secret of time travel
>They encounter Hantei before he fought his dad
>One of them met Amaterasu and she gave him 3 hairs from her head
>The Togashi monk and Shosuro Ninja both affectionately call him "Hantei-kun" after he said calling him by his first name is alright (I mean why wouldn't it be?)
>Results in this
my players sometimes
>>47492761
Forest Killer's would like to talk to you about technique usefulness.
What was your favorite "Book of..."? Mine was earth simply because of The Lair.
>>47495616
I too enjoyed Earth because it contains lots of info on my favorite and by far most played clan, the Crab.
>>47495713
Of all the Clans, the Crab are the bro-est
Don't know if this is the most appropriate place to post this, but I've been thinking of homebrewing a Banner Saga RPG using Roll and Keep, and most of L5R's damage models. Does that sound like something people would be interested in?
Bumpu
has anyone played an oriole craftsman? a friend is looking to run a game and i was wondering how they play
>>47498828
The crafting rules rely a lot on the GM not fucking you over (From both a meta perspective and an in-setting perspective), so how they play depends entirely on how your friend feels about you being able to make gear for yourself and others.
I've heard Lions roar,
but who can roar like the storm?
Not you, Matsu-san.
Ten thousand fierce waves
clutch our ship like trembling hands,
yet my tea lies still.
What contemplation
makes Shinsei's statue sweat so?
Dew on a stone brow.
>>47498889
my GM said no oriole. so now i'm thinking either the hare or monkey. does the hare bushi school actually work well?
>>47490180
Were Ronin bad in 4E? I always felt like their schools didn't make up for not being part of a clan.
>>47499305
i'd like to play a ronin who stole techniques from clans by spying on them. but the system doesn't seem to make that possible
>>47499416
Stealing Techniques isn't really possible, because most of them have a LOT of preparatory learning before you can even begin to actually utilize them, which is why your School doesn't just hand you all five of its Techniques right out of the gate. If it's a capital T Technique, it's partially supernatural and requires a lot of practice and learning to get right.
>>47495603
Oh certainly, the forest killers rank1 is pretty good, so are the tessen. But then your group goes to insight rank 2, and later 3, and then what? that rank1 technique will only get you so far.
>>47499305
That's because they are not meant to be. In fluff, ronin will always be weaker then clan samurai, because they lack the thousands of years of handed down experience and the support network of an entire clan
The RAW reflects this, making ronin a horribly subpar choice from the word go.And even then, some writers think it isn't nearly enough.
What's the quickest way to get to rank 2?
>>47502914
Buy one point in every skill, then pump rings, leaving void for last.
>>47502914
Take shitton of Macro Skills at Rank 1 like Craft, Perform, Artisan, and Lore.
>>47499252
Hare can work quite well, and the Hare Knife-Fighting style is one of my favorite.
>>47505312
For a minor clan a Hare Bushi is quite good. On par I would say with the middle of the road great clan schools.
Noodles like raw eels,
but her hair a silken snake--
love ignores some faults.
Would that my son's cat
could drag him in with the mice--
I mistrust his friends.
Bees may sting but once,
but Scorpions, many times.
Have care, Hachi-san.
>>47505347
Pretty much my feelings as well. It's not a monster school, and you won't be able to do some insane shit other schools can, but what you've got is quite great.Also I'm looking to play L5R sometime, anyone have a spot open?
>>47500908
IIRC some of the rank 2 and 3 techniques sent that bad if you have high honor.
>>47493796
I was planning on doing an online campaign after finishing the one with my meatspace group of friends.
If everything goes by plan, the campaign should be wrapped up by end of July.
Two details, I'm EUWest and it's not a sandbox campaign.
>>47507278
The real problem with ronin getting those techniques is that the setting doesn't support it.
Someone from a real school (Great Clan or Minor) just goes back to their teachers, takes the next test, and then gets taught the next Technique. A ronin goes back to their teacher and their teacher doesn't have jack shit left to teach them (Because their singular Technique is just that), so they have to go find another group with another Technique and convince them that it's worth their time and dignity to dish it out to someone who is provably willing to switch away from their original teacher(s) (And otokodate) to another one, which is sketchy at best and downright dishonorable the rest of the time.
>>47509791
Just run with the base ronin path from Enemies of the Empire IIRC, it should work out fine.
>>47510185
Do you mean the one from Secrets?
>>47510224
Whoops, yeah that one.
>>47510299
That ones actually pretty good. Simple attacks with knives and katanas at rank 3? Yes please.
>>47509791
It's not hard to string a bunch of ronin techniques in a chain and then refluff them as coming from one group. The 4e book is pretty forgiving about refluffing that kind of thing in general, to account for timeline stuff otherwise precluding interesting mechanics.
>>47490180
As a forever GM I don't like ronin simply because they're more work. In a mixed party I have to dedicate more time and effort to making the ronin player not feel totally useless (especially since, comparatively, they are) when I shouldn't have to. In any other situation if the GM has to bend over backwards to cater to one PC who just has to be different, that player would be called a That Guy, but that's just how ronin have to work in L5R.
Ronin only really work when either everyone else is, or they're a clan ronin.
>>47505825
>knight posting
Dirty gaijin go home
Are monks bad?
Not the tattooed monks, but the other kind of monks
>>47512466
No, most of them are pretty good, you can do some crazy shit with just kiho.
Am I the only one who regret all the Chinese stuff in L5R?
L5R really doesn't feel japanese enough.
>>47512584
Personally I think L5R would have been more interesting if they had a China-esque counterpart to Rokugan.
Careful in suggesting that L5R be more Japanese though, for some reason it triggers some anons to go into an autistic tantrum.
>>47512667
You got the idea, I would have prefered a more Japanese part and a more Chinese part, but the way both cultures are mixed is really awkward imo.
