What does ryhas' feat even do? I know these aren't final cards but I could barely understand the wording on it...

blood witches lost incorporeal

I feel like there is a lot to complain about for legion yes. But look on the bright side, both the abbys look a lot better, blight wasps got buffed, eLilith and evayl are still decent castors, lily3 has potential to be good, and kallus and bethane got outright better.

>>47419513
Everything gets an extra melee attack.

The first time something you have damages something with a melee attack you can place it anywhere B2B with the model it damaged.

>>47419513
your dudes can hurt an enemy and then be placed anywhere b2b with that enemy - in the backarc of course.

>everyone ready?
>feat
>charge, first initial etc
>placed in back arc
>slip it in from the rear

maybe more than once. could be double penetration in the backdoor. feat gives an additional attack.

>>47419546
>>47419551
But they don't get the back strike bonus on the second attack? So what's the point of it, just a janky engage mechanic?

>>47419457
Ok, lets look at tournament statistics from the start of 2015 onwards.

Cryx took 1st in 16 of 62 events. Runner up is Circle with 9 wins, Cygnar at 8, Legion and CoC at 5, and everyone else in the dustbin below that.

But I'm sure that's just because Cryx players are cooler, sexier, and more skilled than everyone else, and has nothing to do with the faction.

>>47419573
They do in MK3.

That reason is part of the reason Rhyas wasn't played much in MK2. But you could use it to leapfrog their frontline to hit something in back.

>>47419578
and when you compare the number of players you find that it's actually below average for the turnout slightly

Again, take your bullshit statistics elsewhere

>>47419582
But that actually seems like a good ability? So why is everyone saying she is still shit teir?

>>47419596
casters are not just their feat.

and salt.

>>47419596
5 Fury

File: hahafuckyoubrother.jpg (153 KB, 500x530) Image search: [Google]

153 KB, 500x530

>everyone else in Cryx is salty over the death of infantrymachine
>I'm just loving that our warjacks are now even better and might be seen on the table

"Why would you ever own three Slayers?" they said.

This is why faggots. I knew in my glowing Cryx bones that this day would come.

holy shit did Withershadow Combine get shit on

Why the fuck would you take them now?

>>47419551
It's designed pretty much specifically for swordsmen with the UA.

Charge, initial, place in B2B, Overtake, feat attack, Overtake, Cleave

>>47419617
what is better about the jacks? Most were nerfed as well

>>47419530
Abby1 feat looks absolutely retarded, and with affinity for forsaken I'm already trying to make a list.

>>47419626
It's the same as her old feat, except she doesn't have to take damage to heal them.

>>47419625
>what is better about the jacks? Most were nerfed as well
You are talking about jacks, not beasts, right?

File: retard.png (77 KB, 987x733) Image search: [Google]

77 KB, 987x733

DAILY REMINDER THAT AVERAGE SKILL LEVEL OF REDDITARDS IS GARBAGE

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warmachine/comments/4kqqr0/massive_mk3_faction_deck_spoiler_dump_read_at

>>47419625
Every single warjack in the game gets a free focus now.

Do you know how easy that makes it to just dogpile shit with our much cheaper 'jacks?

>>47419654
yes, Cryx jacks were mostly nerfed

>>47419641
>Run an angel/bb. With heavies
>turn 2
>Opponent comes 5 boxes close to killing collosal.
>All other heavies have taken damage.
>Pop feat.
>Heal 60+ boxes fo freeeeeeeeeeee.

I wanna play her just for that euphoric yet cancerous moment.

>>47419662
Cryx didn't have a problem with giving focus out on our jack casters

again, cryx jacks mostly have been nerfed, point out how they are "better"

>>47419617
I like that warjacks will play a much bigger role in Cryx. I also like that infantryspam isn't the most viable option anymore.

However, I don't like how they've nerfed everything else along with the infantry, so that infantryspam still feels like our main option but just less good.

>>47419681
Nigga every single one of our warcasters can be a 'jack caster now.

>>47419704
And they'll all be beaten by everything else. YAY

>>47419704
and being forced to take 30 points of shitty jacks is good?

You are avoiding telling me how our jacks are "better" than before

>>47419704
tell me how Terminus is a jack caster

>>47419716
forced?

cause you will actually use them now

Psevy just fucking has EoM now, no upkeep no casting. Lmfao.

>>47419726
warjack points now stop stalling or admit you are wrong

>>47419734
Spend those points on a charter jack.

>>47419742
A character jack?

Those all received nerfs

You are incorrect in saying Cryx jacks got better

The entire army was nerfed

Is was coc/merc deck in the pastebin?

Can some one explain how PP expects me to shove my 10 units of doom reavers into a 75pt list? 75 is the new 50 right?

At max i can have 5 units on the table at 75.

>>47419592
You don't seem to understand how tournaments work, but that's ok, I forgive you. Singles tournaments aren't faction team events, there being more Cryx players just means there's a higher likelihood of Cryx mirror matches eliminating Cryx players, and makes it easier for non-Cryx to safely bring specific tech to beat the disproportionately represented Cryx (which, if Cryx were balanced, would bone them completely).

If you look at tournaments that reported 2nd/3rd/4th place Cryx suddenly normalizes down to about 15%. Which is still more than anyone else but down from their 1st place dominance. This is because top-level players are much more evenly distributed between the factions than the general field (who bandwagon on Cryx), but the top-level Cryx players still float to 1st almost as often as the next two runners-up combined, despite actually being under-represented at the top tables relative to the massive number of Cryx players in the general tournament population.

>>47419752
I am not based anon saying they got better.
Your Jacks got nerfed? Yes.
Are they more inline with the abilitis of other factions? Yes.

>>47419765
so what you are saying is what i was saying which is that cryx wins an appropriate amount for the number of players, thank you

>>47419765
I like how you contradict yourself

>>47419769
Please enlighten me how they are more inline? I don't see it.

>>47419780
Speed 7 heavy Def 13 arm 17 has reach can threat 12 inches without moment buffs. Your Jacks are going to alpha, always.

>>47419668
>Cryx jacks were mostly nerfed
What? Are we seeing the same cards?

>>47419792
no, not against beasts and not when they are shot dead and not "always" if the opponent isn't stupid

>>47419803
yes, go compare them, they were mostly nerfed that is correct

>>47419813
Which ones? I mean non-character.

I'm looking at the Slayer, Reaper or Seether for example. Those are fucking baller and very competitively costed. If you don't want them I'd gladly take them.

>>47419826
They either did not change or were nerfed. Go look at them all and compare them to mark 2

>>47419776
>>47419780
I didn't contradict myself at all, you're just bad at thinking. The general population of a tournament and the players at the top tables are two entirely different things.

Cryx has a massively disproportionate number of 1st place finishes relative to their representation at top tables. If you can't process what that means, then I apologize for picking on the mentally handicapped.

>>47419806
This is applicable to all Jacks.

Your jacks have solid baselines.

>>47419838
no they don't, I've look at their numbers. We've had this conversation.

you can't just decide what "top table players" are and pick a number that supports your views at cryx being over powered.

The numbers say cryx loses more than it should for the number of players, you lose this argument good day

>>47419846
no, YOUR jacks have solid baselines.

Cryx are cheap and underpreform

>>47419838
So because you made up your own logic without proof that others can't follow they must be retarded right?

>>47419806
Best Menoth Jack
Speed 5 mat 6 rat 4 Def 10 Arm 19 32 boxes. Ps:17 reach ps:14 shot range (17 effective; 12 base) 16 points.

Tell me the stats of your closest pc jack, (15,16,17)

>>47419848
>no they don't, I've look at their numbers.
Oh really, do you have a more comprehensive source than the tournaments reported on Discountgames? I'd love to see it.

>you can't just decide what "top table players" are
1st/2nd/3rd/4th as reported on Discountgames. If we can't use the public record of finalists across dozens of tournaments as a metric for which players and factions are placing highly, then what can we use?

Warwitch Siren loses a point of Def, loses a point of Magic Ability and shadowbind can be shaken

>>47419837
Like I said. if you don't want those 10p heavies with 3 initials at mat7 and SPD6, I'll gladly take them.

>>47419871
and power 16 and 12. and at a statline that gets them dead before they earn even that 10 points back

>>47419865
You can absolutely follow it, look at Discountgamesinc and their listing of top-placing tournament players.

It's not my fault you're too lazy to do research and are arguing based on your feelings rather than facts.

>>47419674
The problem is most Legion heavies aren't exactly resilient. Most of the time they'll get one-rounded.

>>47419881
"top placing"

Listen, you have nothing but a biased viewpoint that totally "proves" all the top players are out to get you

>>47419892
By all means, refute me. I've made my point.

Cryx players do not represent 25+% of the players in the top 3/4, they're floating around 15%. And yet they take 1st place 25+% of the time.

>>47419906
How are these stats or the other factions?

>>47419906
that is not a measurement

>of the players that place 1-4th place cryx are 15% of the players and 25% of the time take 1st!

no! that's not how statistics work, you look at the total number of players and see how they do overall, not just you can just scrape off a random top percentage to try and force your bias

>>47419934
that is how statistics works actually.

you take the numbers you want and spin them through the math machine of your choice and
>voila
you've proved your point.

and if the statistic anon is looking for happens to be "of the cryx players who place in the top x , how many get first place?"
>then guess what niqqa
sounds like he statisticed that shit right up.

>>47419954
It is a bullshit grouping that presents false information to the users

"does Cryx take more tournaments than they should per number of players?"

"no, but if we use this only this certain set of data and ignore the rest of the data it makes it look like they do"

>>47419967
yeah. statistics.

the argument shouldn't be about this shit.

it should be about how broke the game had gotten. and if PP has done what is necesssary to fix it.

i don't even know, haven't ever played a game. wanting to get into it, getting some models together, been holding off because inbound edition etc just been lurking and watching battle reports.

>>47419856
Oh lord, the day a crys player says that Khador Statlines are better then Cryx ones.

Was +1 Mat (To only SOME Khador jacks) all it took?

Seriously, not everybody is carrying around hidden troves of POW 14 guns, just waiting to Completely destroy a Cryx heavy.
>>47419934

So what about all the other levels of play. If Cryx dominates in each one something is still wrong.

>>47420001
You should probably drop the name.

>>47420001
uh, basically yes.

Worrying about hitting was the only thing holding us back, a free charge is just icing on the cake.

Khador jacks got the most improved in mark 3

>>47419934
>you look at the total number of players and see how they do overall
That only works if you assume every player who enters has an equal chance to win, which is roughly as true as asserting the earth is flat or that if you drop an apple it'll fly directly upwards into the sun.

Speaking of Mk III, does any awesome spoiler person happen to have info on the new Ret Solo coming in prime. It's not in the deck due to newness but hopefully should be in the playtest cards that have been leaked,

>>47420001
>Oh lord, the day a crys player says that Khador Statlines are better then Cryx ones.
Well he is right in that point. Khador heavies are looking incredibly good. That doesn't make Cryx heavies bad though. They're just good in different ways.

>>47420029
so then tell me, what is everyone's actual chance to win? What is the number there bullshiter?

>>47420016
Khador has the least jack support so they get better baselines than everyone else.

>>47420044
what is the jack support that everyone else has besides menoth?

repair? Khador has that

>>47420044
I see a lot better jack support on the casters now

>All the top player in the world consider Cryx the best faction.
>Now one goes to tournament with a Cryx drop.
>Cryx player start to cry for the nerf.

Look at this guy >>47419869 is so retarded he can't understand that his 2 point solo just got better because now can handle FOC to everything while retaining combat utility.

So, how about some list building? I'm working on a Rasheth list. So far I've got:

Rasheth (28)
Gladiator 14
Sentry 15

Reivers+UA 19
Croaks 17
PGBH 5

Witch Doc 4
Willbreaker 4

This comes down to 50p, so 25 left to spend. I'm not entirely sure on the 8 points of support solos here, as they currently only support one unit. Not 100% sure about the Croaks either, but so far I see no better alternative. What would you guys do?

>>47420042
Are you stupid? There is no way to determine that number based on the data available to us, but it sure as shit isn't anything close to 1/[number of players].

If it was, you'd see a relatively even distribution of Cryx in the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th place slots. If your logic was correct, their representation in any given placement should be real damn close to their overall representation, and based on the data available to us that is only true of the 1st place slot.

>>47420016
Nah.

What really buffed up our jacks was the intense re-costing and tweaks.

I mean a Maurader is a real good buy now. His special ability isn't linked to any weapon whatseover so he can just keep doing it as long as he wants. And point cost is only 10! Thats 2 points dropped, and on par with expensive light jacks.

Khador can now throw lots and lots of HP for lower costs.

>>47420106
you're right there isn't, which is why your bullshit "top-players" stats can't speak or prove anything

>>47420085
>because now can handle FOC to everything
what?

what are you talking about? How supposedly did they get improved?

>>47420085
>>Cryx player start to cry for the nerf.

Eh. Cryx player here, we got off far lighter than I was expecting. Most of our units still look playable, and a few of them have me really interested. Ripjaws, with Crit. Armour Piercing and Powerful Attack, look like a great buy for only one MK3 point more than a Deathripper. The Crabjacks also look much improved now. I like the idea of fielding Slayers as "lights" and the Crabs as our actual heavies.

>>47420129
Power Booster isn't restricted to Warjacks without focus on them any more. A Warwitch can just hand out a free point of focus a turn.

>>47420142
and that affected slayers in mark 2 or inflictors only

>>47420150
Or, all your jack if you consider Power up new rules and the fact that you can bring 2 Siren

Is eKreoss feat still the same? anyone got cards on spell list and such?

Here's what I'm most hyped about in Skorne:
>Razor Wurm
Can actually do the job it's always been there to do now that control range is doubled on it. And that animus, that ANIMUS. I'll just park him next to some of your infantry. Try to move? Eat free strikes. Try to kill him? Eat spines nigger.
>Xekaar
Goes without saying now that the new warlock looks insane.
>Cyclops in general
They're all getting cheaper, which means they can be used as general filler or beatsticks. I mean, 2 Cyclops Savages can PROBABLY take on a 16-17 point unit, but you get a tasty animus on top of it. My main problem is the Raider which is now not only the most expensive of all cyclops, but easily the worst. No one EVER used a Raider in Mk2 because they wanted to shoot something.
>Titans
4" blasts, Snipe, and cheaper makes me really want to use my Cannoneer. The Bronzeback has lost some (admittedly usually overkill) damage and got a whole point cheaper, the Gladiator got a whole point cheaper.
>Despoiler
Void Spirit poop range just went from 2" to 5".

Everything else is what you'd expect. Kinda pissed off that the Cetrati I'm in the middle of painting have just been nerfed into the ground by losing 3 boxes and a point of armour.

>>47420294
How viable would a Skorne army based around single-wound infantry and the Bug beasts be? I really like the disciplined, almost Roman legion-like look of their rank and file infantry, but hate the Mammoth and Cyclops beasts. Is there a Warlock that could get buy just using the bugs, plus lizardy things like the Razor Wurm?

>>47420325
Xerxis1 is a fantastic warlock for spamming infantry because his feat turns everything into monsters for a turn. Praetorian Swordsmen/Karax look like they're going to be really good infantry in Mk3 too. If you're referring to the Aradus Sentinel/Soldier, they don't seem that great this edition. If you mean the Scarab Pack, then you might wanna try bringing Tyrant Zaadesh to give them Tag Team on top of their normal stuff. Just don't forget that you'll need titans if you want to crack heavy armour.

>>47420294

28 inch arc node motherfucking razor wurm with eHex

Plz save cygnar and upload them :D

>>47420349
>If you're referring to the Aradus Sentinel/Soldier, they don't seem that great this edition. If you mean the Scarab Pack

Both, really. I just like big bug monsters, and was hoping to be able to run a whole Battlegroup of them. I'll take a look into Xerxis 1, then, thanks. Right now there's only Warmachine factions in my meta, so I'm a bit lost when it comes to Hordes.

>>47420357
You mean pHex? He's the one with Soul Slave. But yeah that sounds fun. Sit my Razor Wurm in the middle of your infantry and drop Obliteration. The Wurm will survive; your infantry won't.

>>47420388

eHex has Field Marshal: Channeler. Every beast in his BG is an arc node

Uuuugh, just added the points for my Mk2 Old Witch list up and I'm fucking 24pts over the 75pts standard for Mk3.

Basically going to have to completly redo my list. I thought shit was getting cheaper this edition?

>>47420401
Oh wow I hadn't even noticed. My only issue is that he doesn't have any templates he can drop. I suppose Ashes to Ashes will have to do, but man that's a 5" template on pHexxy :^(

>>47420430

my problem with pHex is spirit leech is way worse than soulfire. at least you could machine gun people with soulfire on a good day. Spirit leech you cast twice and you're out of fury without any boosts unless your target is a warlock or warcaster and they're usually hard enough to hit that you boost for them.

unless you find something to stab for a blood boon, and that usually is a one way ticket to getting assassinated or being forced to camp enough that you dont get to cast more things anyway. ehex can sit far, FAR back and fire off A2A and the (now buffed) Hellfire and potentially spend his entire stack from turn to turn because he can be arcing spells from 14 or 28" away and never needing to come near the front lines.

Marketh can cast A2A and hellfire too which is nice. Although marketh can cast spirit leech too and is basically auto include with pHex to help his upkeep burden

>>47420378

I got them from the cygnar facebook page, get them from there

>>47420485
Already asked on the cyg fb a few hour ago but got nothing :(

>>47420465
After going over spell lists, eHex does seem like he has more utility. Losing the 5" blast is pretty shit, but Banishing Ward, Black Spot, and Cloak of Ash are all solid as fuck spells.

Actually fuck, Black Spot with Swordsmen seems insane. After landing their 2nd hit, they get to Sidestep then do nothing, but if they killed something with Black Spot, they could Sidestep then get a 3rd attack in. Each Swordsman could kill a pretty wide spread of infantry. Damn son I might actually pick up eHex.

>>47420485

Posted again on the FB (with 4chan 47420485) inside the message you could send them to me it would be sooo nice !! Thx a lot

>>47420055
>>47420066
Retri has arcanists and 2 marshals.
Cygnar has the biggest amount of marshals and journeymen.
Cryx has non-caster debuffs and 1 marshal and siren with empower and can help with soul collecting. Well debuffs work on everything so it's kinda not jack-specific.
Khador has 1 marshal and no empower.
Everyone has repairs.
Everyone has jack-focused casters.

>>47420405
It did. But new 75 is old 37.5.

>>47420616
khador has a few marshal go read again

>>47420624
But you have more jack points. You had 6 before, which translate to 12 now, but you have 30 of them.
So instead of 56 points you have 105 points (52.5 old points), which is roughly the same.

wtf why would anyone take demo corp over shocktroopers?

>>47420485
Would you mind putting it to some 1-click-hoster? 2shared looks workable.

>>47420664
So what, standard steamroller is 100pts now? Or 75pts?

On imgur there are the new model cards too, I am pretty sure. There are Thorn Gun Mage image floating around.

If someone could tell me at least the account name of the uploader.

>>47420575

black spot and a cannoneer means you can drop two 4" aoes a turn from 16" away if its any consolation to losing Obliteration.

>>47420693
75 is old 50.
50 is old 35.

>>47420693
75 + 25-30 wj point

>>47420733
Sweet. Brb ordering eHexxy.

>>47420742
>>47420739
So it's not that stuff is cheaper, its that PP thinks Scrapjack is worth about 8-12pts?

>>47420093
imo if you're bringing croaks, get incindiarii instead of reivers. Just don't fight menoth.

I don't think the witch doc is really worth using to support a unit of croaks with mk3 tough. They lost viritol which was the main draw of making them tough.

Maybe throw in a unit of gators and a task master. Wrong Eye is another good choice because of star-crossed and all the arm debuffs. Minions are looking great with rasheth.

>>47420837
>Scrapjack is worth about 8-12pts?
Sounds fair. Or is he any worse than in MK2?

>>47420294
Spiny Growth is non-warrior.

Storm Raptor and the Druid cavalry are missing from the Circle PDF =(

>>47420847
Well damn. You raise a good point with Wrongeye.

Current status of my pairing is:

mordikaar
despoiler
gladiator

nihilators
beast handler
ferox
2 void spirit
rhadeim
legends
willbreaker
bellows crew


rasheth
gladiator
sentry
mammoth
agonizer

flayer
reivers+ua
beast handler

Rip it apart, guys!

Is it just me or can Rhulic casters now take non-Rhulic warjacks and vice-versa?

>>47420892
No, they've stated that's going to be a rule in Prime. Rhulic casters and warjacks are still segregated.

>>47420093
Like, something like this:

Rasheth (28)
Gladiator 14
Sentry 15

Incindiarii 18
Croaks 17
Gators 18
PGBH 5

Task Master 3
Willbreaker 4

That leaves you with 9 points. That could be a min unit of nihilators maybe, or a raider, or maybe Rhadeim (He's a warrior so you can arc off him with his 10+5 boxes, and arm debuffs + armor piercing sounds pretty rough since the debuff is applied after the armor is halved)

>>47420877
the pdf only includes cards that had mk2 cards before. Since those models aren't released yet, you don't need new cards for them. They will simply ship with mk3 ones.

>>47420670
The cards are pretty self-explanatory.

>>47420930
Actually, hell. I've got all those models, I think I'll try running that list.

>>47420949
Yeah, now that I look at it, Rhadeim seems interesting. Carnivore on him and he's got a boosted mat 10 charge that's armor piercing, or he can use jump and get the spear and boosted mount attack. He's real damn fast (Speed 8, jump 5, reposition 3) letting him arc blood mark or breath of corruption in great spots. Just have to watch your threat ranges to keep him alive for a bit.

>>47420930
Problem though is rasheth needs another beast. If he's leaving 1 to transfer on both titans he's only pulling 5 fury a turn. Should find a way to put an agonizer in there, maybe make the croaks a min unit.

Not all khador jacks got better. Berserker chassis jacks are next to useless now due to losing the abilty to run or charge for free. 1/6 chance of blowing up just for running into position round one? No thanks, unless i run butcher1 with free runs and charges, I see no place for the Berserker. Maybe Rager for shield guard.

>>47420986

feat + bloodmark gives him a POW 16 armor piercing attack against ANYTHING even small based warcasters now. not too shabby as a finishing blow to something thats been shot up either.

>>47419752
Our nerfed jacks are still fucking great.

They're cheap, the out threat most things in the game, they have inbuilt tools to take advantage of their numerical superiority, they're accurate, they hit hard, they're hard to hit...

I don't see how you could possibly pretend that Nightmare or Deathjack are bad. Or just the standard Reaper/Slayer combo.

I've been using these things for years, at mkii efficiency, and they rape face. They are fucking serial killers. I'm a bit annoyed it's harder to keep Seethers in check now, but holy shit it has utility, and its aggression just means you have to use your superior speed and threat (note: we have a lot of this shit) to control the terms of engagement. Fucking pull and enemy warjack in and watch your Seethers rape it without focus expenditure, putting them in position to bersek onto other shit or countercharge anything that might want to think about intervening.

I think the problem you're having is that you have no goddamn imagination.

>>47421058
>Berserker chassis jacks are next to useless now due to losing the abilty to run or charge for free. 1/6 chance of blowing up just for running into position round one?


How about you actually read the fucking rules you moron?

Unstable only triggers if you spend more than 1 focus now.

>>47420852
>>47420852
Not really. I'm still trying to decide if Avatar of Slaughters change is better or worse.

The main problem is that pricing him like that assumes he's as disposable as any other light jack, when Old Witch NEEDS him to be an effective caster and he's a massive drain on OWs focus.

He basically only gets work done if the opponent makes a mistake and he bunches up a lot of infantry for Scrappy to destroy. At this point you're looking at investing at least 4 focus on him including power up. 3 on Scrappy (power up + allocate 2), and another 2 on Unseen Path to reel him back in so that he doesn't get destroyed.

If hes not killing infantry then hes just a teleport beacon for Old Witch because Gallows is generally the only spell worth casting through him and its am expensive spell for her to cast.

Basically, what I'm saying is that they've designed Old Witch and Scrapjack to act as one, but given her warjack points as if Scrapjack is functional by itself.

I'll still play them, but I liked playing them as an attrition/objective caster now it feels like I need to play them as assassination.

>>47421008
That list might get more mileage out of a Krea, it's got enough guns that it'll probably have to worry more about getting counter-gunned than beat to death. Plus the Krea won't instantly die if piddly guns draw a bead on it like an Agonizer can, and it's paralysis gun can be randomly clutch.

>>47421076
>watch your Seethers rape it without focus expenditure

Marshal it via an ILO for Dark Shroud (and Stealth to keep it alive in the first turn) and have a Warwitch Siren drop a point of focus into it just in case. That's going to be nuts. Haven't run the numbers, but it wouldn't surprise me if it takes down a Khador heavy in one round.

>>47421155
Krea only works on friendly faction AND doesn't increase armor.

>>47421141
I see. That's pretty bad then.

Here's what I'm probably gonna put together in the future.

eHexeris (27)
Razor Wurm 7
Titan Cannoneer 17
Titan Gladiator 14
Cyclops Shaman 8
Bronzeback Titan 18

Max Incendiarii 18
Min Handlers 5

Willbreaker 4
Aptimus Marketh 6
Orin Midwinter 5

Only thing I don't have is eHexeris himself.

>>47421141
>At this point you're looking at investing at least 4 focus on him including power up. 3 on Scrappy (power up + allocate 2), and another 2 on Unseen Path to reel him back in so that he doesn't get destroyed.

Or you can just give him no focus. Just have him charge in, Berserk on shit, then move and Berserk on more shit. Motherfucker's got 2 initials. Why do you need to allocate 2 focus unless there's something you really, really need dead over there, in which case it's probably worth it.
After that you only spend 2 to teleport him out.

>>47421165
Dunno... I'm as excited about the new Cryx jacks as anybody, but it's not like one-rounding a Khador heavy is something Cryx needed.

Many of the Cryx casters can provide enough of an armor swing to make McThralls (even the new, somewhat weaker ones) do that job.

Scything touch doesn't stack with banes anymore (which sucks), but most casters can still manage a -4 or -5 ARM easily, and Denny can still get -7 ARM with a bane running in.

On the flip side, that might mean a Seether can one-round TWO khador heavies. =)

>>47421165
It does around 30 points to an ARM20 target under that scenario. Doesn't 1-round it, but knocks out two or three systems and leaves it on 6 boxes. Not too shabby.
On anything that isn't ARM20+ it just fucking murders it.

>>47421187

Looks pretty decent although i'd trade Orin and the shaman for a max unit of slingers. Decent tarpit, will give marketh some souls as they die which he can use to boost A2As and hellfires and pay for Hexy's upkeeps.

although thats just me, i dont like Incindarii as the front line when they had 8 boxes and i'm still not a fan.

Also while Orin is good, you have banishing ward which is b etter than arcane vortex

>>47421254

Why bring Banes in to lower a targets ARM when a marshalled Seether does that on its own in MK3?

Seriously, with these things being P+S 17 base, free charge and ILOs actually reaching a state of being useful I'm having a hard time convincing myself to bring a unit of non-Stealth, non-Tough Banes.

So glad I bought 4 Seethers back in MK1 that can now get off the shelf for the first time in years.

>>47419716
>and being forced to take 30 points of shitty jacks is good?

Are you seriously complaining about free stuff?

Want to play infantrymachine? Drop Deathjack + a couple of bonejacks into your list. He's still a filthy rapist, and bonejacks still do what they do. Normal helljacks are well worth the points, however, and it's kinda sad that you refuse to see that.

>>47421291
>Also while Orin is good, you have banishing ward which is b etter than arcane vortex

Depends on what you're trying to cover. Orin has a bubble, BWard is model/unit.

>>47421318
>Why bring Banes in to lower a targets ARM when a marshalled Seether does that on its own in MK3?

You probably don't need to, but it's an ARM debuff every caster has access to.

Depends on where the meta goes. Most of Cryx has either an ARM debuff or a STR buff somewhere on their card, so banes may be overkill.
But if we end up back in ARM-skew land, they may have a place.

>>47420908
Weird that they state it on the card for the Minion warlocks, but not for the Merc casters.

In other news, the Dawnguard Invictor UA's minifeat grants Snipe, so no more 18" bullshit shenanigans with Ravyn.

>>47421291
>Miss because I aimed for something just out of range LOL PREMEASURING
>One of the three models hit dies to the splash, triggering Black Spot
>Get to shoot again

With premeasuring it feels like Incindiarii actually got a nice buff in that you have more control over where you drop your blobs since you won't accidentally be aiming for models that end up being in range. So between the Incindiarii, the Cannoneer, Orin going ZAP, and being able to use EVERY SINGLE FUCKING BEAST primarily the Razor Wurm as arc nodes, I shouldn't have any trouble with infantry. Then I've got 3 titans to crack armour with, and the Incindiarii's shots actually do good damage when they hit, which Black Spot helps with. And they can always CRA for a huge firey slap. The Cannoneer being able to transition from infantry melter to something that can put out very respectable damage is sweet as all fuck.

My only worry is fury management. Maybe I should go down to a min unit of Incindiarii and add more handlers and solos. Maybe another Willbreaker.

>>47421359
>if we end up back in ARM-skew land
We 100% totally will. At least for the rest of 2016.

>>47421359

After reading through the deck documents yesterday, I have trouble figuring out where the meta's gonna go, at least for the first year, and then it'll probably settle into something.

But yeah, Cryx list building is going to depend a lot on all of this. I just know it's time to dust off eeGaspy with Slayers/Deathjack and ILOs with Seethers.

>>47421425
I suspect the new emphasis on jacks/beasts, and the bit of a nerf bat to stacked ARM buffs, will mean a different kind of ARM skew.

Instead of a few models with ludicrous ARM, I think you're going to see a big number of models with solid ARM.

Khador's a good example. One ARM 20 jack across the table is very manageable. But now you're probably gonna see lists with 4 or 5 of them.

>>47421471
Add some ARM 18 Iron Fang Pikemen / Black Dragons to that and we're gonna have a ball.

>>47421489
With Ironflesh? Mother of Dog...

>>47421500
Oh I'm sorry, 20 with Iron Flesh

>>47421287

Actually, if you go all out (ILO using the Crush command for additional attack and +2 on damage rolls, two Sirens empowering it, and Denny debuffing the hell out of the target), Seether does an average of 75 damage to a single ARM 20 target.

>>47421337

a 3" arcane vortex bubble you can use 3 times

What change about rhyas? Can't download the file >_<

>>47421572
Almost nothing. Her biggest change is the fact that you no longer need to start in someone's back arc to get Backstrike Bonus.

>>47421508
If there's one unit I'm NOT scared to face in new-Khador, it's Iron Fangs.

An ARM20 single-wound unit is cute, but that still dies about half the time to a boosted POW10. Their big thing in Mk2 was they combined high enough arm to not give a shit about piddly incidental damage with high enough DEF (from Iron Flesh) to make most of the stuff that could actually deal with them miss.

Don't get me wrong, they'll still be good, but they won't be anything close to the unstoppable fuckball that they were in Mk2.

>Man, those Cinerators changes are pretty cool. Vengance and Immunity: Fire? I cannot wait to have a Repenter trail behind them to unjam them where needed.
>5 boxes
WHY? And why do they cost the same as before despite being way weaker?

>>47421627
They went from 0.5 reach to 2 inch reach. They're not weaker, but they still aren't good enough.

Mk3 Bastions are somebody's idea of a cruel joke.

>>47419867
flawed argument: Reckoner is no longer the "best" Menoth WJ.

Can you take a unit of Skinwalkers, an Alpha, and Wolflord Morraig and stack gang and flank?

File: CephalyxMindSlaverDrudges.jpg (39 KB, 420x420) Image search: [Google]

39 KB, 420x420

Cephalyx player here- I checked the changes and I'm kind of upset at the nerfs to the wrecker and the agitator- mostly the agitator though. I'm alright with drudges losing a point of power in exchange for the ability to actually add models to the unit, but I am all kinds of not okay with the agitator only affecting monstrosities.

Anybody care to weigh in their opinion? Maybe there's something I overlooked that makes this worth it, but so far I'm not seeing it. I expected my faction to go through with minimal changes and this feels like a BIG one.

When were u when morg2 was kill?

grievous doesnt stop transfers anymore. he isnt immune to FS unless he brings marketh / wastes 2 fury. he lost arcane for blessed. he cant even support minions anymore because ghost walk is friendly faction now.

this nigger isn't assassinating shit.

what the fuck

>>47421775
But think about all of that design space!!!

>>47419868
This guy is correct.
Cryx is almost always in the top 3 of every single tournament.
Not just some tournaments, not just major tournaments, but almost every single tournament.
Hey but you know, we had a tournament without cryx on the podium! You know why? Because no one wanted to play cryx at all.

The age old question was, and apparently still is:
Do good players gravitate towards cryx?
Or does cryx make players good?

When in fact one leads to the other.
Funnily enough in any game, players will tend towards the most powerful things, minmaxxing has always been a thing.
Look at Bradigus release, do you think the bandwagon effect wasn't real? What about croak raiders?
If it's strong players will buy into it.

Another fact for you: I've been playing Menoth since Mk2 started. Only now have I moved to Cryx, and it's like playing on easy mode. Everything in my list is cheaper and has more abilities than anything else across the table.

Get over it, Cryx is OP, and the good news is Cryx is still going to be OP in Mk3.

I'm a new player going to try starting with Mk3 so I only have a very vague understanding of the cards and no real reference from Mk2, does Circle look good?

>>47421620
Where are you getting a perponderance of boosted POW10's in MK3?

>>47421794
Almost all tournaments?
You mean that 1 entry in the last 5 tournaments on discountgames?

>>47421823
Some of Circle looks good, some of Circle looks bad. It seems like it'll be one of those factions you have to be really good at if you wanna win tournaments.

>>47421318
Seethers were FA2 in mk1.

How the fuck do I get hold of retribution's merc cards? They have a grand total of 5 models who will work for them out of faction, I own all of them because I'm an autistic sperg and own most of Retribution. Do you think they will just include the cards in the faction decks or will I need to find someone to trade with?

>>47421861
Just print them.

>>47421830
if i was a top level, winning record, skilled and capable player, i might want to prove my ability in the dying days of an edition to win with something other than the most powerful weaponry available.

especially if my fellow tournament players call me Tom Hardy

>>47421850
Oh I know. But I bought 4 because I was a 14 year old kid who just wanted more because they looked cool. And two-caster games were a big thing in my area.

>>47421141
Well you don't need to give it 3 focus constantly. The threat of scrappy should scare most infantry away from him. And you certainly don't need to unseen path him back, he can be just a fire and forget missile.

>>47421830
yep you can look beyond the latest 5 tournaments on discount games if you want to avoid bias.
You keep telling the other guy about cherry picking numbers, and then you go and do it yourself.

Also include local steamrollers.

The thing is, you know in your human effigy of a heart that cryx is really really good in mk2.
Sure they have gone from "top dog" to merely "one of the top dogs" as circle cheese and legion have caught up (oh and 2 troll tier lists while it lasted)

>But despite that, Cryx are fucking easy mode.
stop avoiding arguments too. Answer it all or admit it, you know it's true.

>>47421654
>Traded Flameburst for Continuous Fire - nerf (arguably)
>traded Relentless Advance for Vengance - buff
>gained Immunity: Fire - buff
>gained Reach - buff
>lost three hit boxes - NERF
I guess in a way the removal of psychology is also an indirect nerf, since everybody is now fearless.
Honestly, there is a lot to like about the new Cinerators, but the reduction in hitboxes just kills them.
Bastions are even worse of, but I kinda expected a nerf on them. Not in that way and certainly not that harsh, mind you...

Can someone who downloaded the Trollbloods PDF from 4shared (>>47410869) reup it to a non-crap service like mega.nz or megafileupload?
4shared seems to be blocked in my work's network.

>>47421877
good point.
Exactly, why win with Cryx, because any pleb can do well with cryx.
getting good against cryx is the challenge.

>>47421902
Sorry I don't have facetwittermyspacebook either.

>>47421877
So when I point out that what you say is wrong you just make up some excuse?

>>47421892
>>47421905
And the asskissing commences

>>47421895
2" melee range was all they really lacked.
Now they would be on par with Bastions...If Bastion hadn't been nerfed into the ground.

Good job I bought Cinerators dirt cheap when the were "bad"

>>47421790

i didn't think he could get any worse, and then they design spaced the SHIT out of him.

>>47421627
You shouldn't compare mk2 and mk3 models.
You shouldn't compare different faction models.
Models are balanced as different options within the faction.

>>47421916
feeling outnumbered?
That's because you're wrong, you know your wrong, but don't want to admit it.

It's okay though, your anomalous on the intarbutts. We won't make fun of you later on. Heck we might even enjoy a game of Mk3 one day when cryx aren't quite as OP.

>>47421627
They seem fine to me, 2" reach and Vengeance (which triggers on any damage now, not just when a guy dies) is great. You just need to reevaluate what role heavy infantry are supposed to play in the new edition. With a few rare exceptions medium-based infantry aren't going to be front-and-center anymore, they're going to be a punishing second-line that doesn't die to typical anti-infantry tech.

You've also got five casters with unit ARM buffs in your faction, an ARM19 5-box unit with Mk3Vengeance is no joke. Plus High Reclaimer who can resurrect them at full boxes and they can still charge that turn, which can put them in super weird places that a slow beatstick unit has no business being.

>>47421938
Look at this badass go! You must get mad puss.

>>47421775
>>47421790
Not just morg2.
More importantly Thyra. Sure she can teleport now, and silence of death is a damage buff and she has innate stealth.
The problem is that she cannot assassinate anything now.
Even if she upkeeps silence, casts carnage then charges the opposing caster; that's 2 initials and 2 focus for extra attacks.
4 attacks. It isn't going to happen.

>>47421932
>You shouldn't compare different faction models.
Fuck that. That's just a shitty excuse PP uses to disguise horrible faction balance as gameplay complexity.

>>47421956
Well, it's funny you should say that, but...I do.
Thank you for the pleasant compliment.
Good day to you too and if I may wish for you too to find a nice cute chick and dip your biscuit.

>>47421843
And what about Khador? I'm still trying to figure out what I want to play, and most of the factions 'look' cool so that makes it harder.

Are there any working links to the Cryx and Khador decks?

>>47422013
Khador looks sick right now! Their infantry is still amazing, the Behemoth is insanely good most casters look very viable and they have different roles/playstyles.

If I had to pick a new faction right now, I'd pick up Khador. They look very well balanced and flexible.

So, correct me if I'm wrong, but Aurora has

FLANK [ANGEL] – When this model makes a melee attack against an
enemy model engaged by a friendly Angel model, this model gains +2
to attack rolls and gains an additional damage die.

But that's asking for a unit keyword like Thrall or something right? Am I crazy, or do Clockwork Angels not have the Angel keyword anywhere on their card? Can she not flank with anyone as of now?

There's no keyword subtype when it's already in the name.

>>47420122
>Take the top 10% of players across all major tournaments
These are your top tier players. They have shown they can consistently play well enough to place. They are the pro players if you want to use that term.

Among these pro players there is little skill difference because they're all such high tier players that 1 mistake is enough to lose in that "pond".

Everyone below that 10% is going to find it all but impossible to compete with them, the 10% under them may win 1 in 5 games, but it's not consistent and from there on down it's basically a margin of error (i.e. very bad dice rolls).

If that top 10% of players has a higher win percentage with Cryx than any other faction by more than a couple of percentage we can consider Cryx is overpowered. If factions were balanced it wouldn't matter what faction someone played as they would have roughly 50/50 chances of winning/losing, which would keep Cryx's win percentage close to the other factions because an over represented faction is neutral in our numbers when they play each other.

As such we can make the logical conclusion that in a perfect game scenario Cryx perform better than any other faction. This is without taking into account that Cryx is under represented in this top bracket, which should give it less chances to place in the top 3, but they still consistently do.

Lets use your argument in some other scenario. We'll take target shooting. We have 1 guy who can shoot really well and 4 people who know what end of the gun a bullet comes out. When they all line up to shoot the same gun 4 of them will say the gun sucks and can't shoot straight. 1 of them will say the gun is perfect and shoots like a dream. 4 of these people's opinions are worthless. The same is true in Warmachine and Cryx players. The top tier players don't play the same game the average Joe does. The average game will be lost due to bad play, the top tier games are lost on 0.5" movement too far to the left. Very different games.

>>47422069
Maybe it works for name segemensts (like Angel in Clockwork Angel). That would however beg the question why Bane Warriors have the Bane keyword.

>>47421922
The thing that bugs me is that things like Reciprocators are a easly 2pc more, but come in with better stats, a better weapon and better rules *on top* of retaining eight boxes.

That said, I still have the Cinerators from the starter, so I will take them out with eKreoss soon.

So what happened to Bastions in M3?

>>47422144
Lost 3 boxes each, lost a POW, sanguine bond has a 3 inch range.

Gained set defense (to a whopping 13), doesn't matter when they will just die to guns.

>>47422069
>So, correct me if I'm wrong, but Aurora has FLANK [ANGEL]
>But that's asking for a unit keyword like Thrall or something right? Am I crazy, or do Clockwork Angels not have the Angel keyword anywhere on their card? Can she not flank with anyone as of now?

Maybe she'll be able to flank with the Angelius in her new theme force, Anything With Wings.

>>47422144
Lost 1 P+S, lost three boxes, lost 2CMD, Fearless is now ubiqutous and they still cost the same.

>>47421775
A few assassins got hit. Kaelyssa lost a lot of her umph in MKIII and has shifted more towards a support caster with a decent gun. It makes me sad as she was my favourite caster but Garryth and her overlapped a little so they pushed off of each other and we got killy mckill face and support with a nasty gun which are both playable.

So I'm considering starting Circle in MK3, focusing on Tharn. Anyone else think a list with eKromac, Ghetorix, a Riphorn, a Gorax and some assortment of Tharn and Skinwalkers could be good?

>>47422207
>new theme force, Anything With Wings
T4 benefit: All KFC buckets get AD.

>>47421902
http://www.megafileupload.com/V9q2/fljkjv.rar

Get in faggot, we're making America great again.

>>47422124

None of the Banes do, but the Thralls have Cryx Thrall Unit.

>>47422084
I have to assume that's true. I mean, the only reason to have changed it is if they plan on releasing other types of angels? She should just give things Angel keyword with her feat or her Aerogenesis spell.

Did we get anything on the new prime models, I've seen cards for the Skorne, Khador, Trolls, Mercs and Cryx. Does anyone have cards for the new models for Ret or Cygnar?

>>47422214

How do you figure Kaelyssa got worse? Her gun's buffed in MK3.

>>47419482
Still no sightings of the Cygnar deck?

>>47422251

Supposedly the Cygnar facebook group has all the details, but I don't know if they have it in image form.

>>47422248
She can only buy 2 attacks with it now. Before you could take 8 shots by spending focus to shoot more. 3 boosted pow 12s should stop a caster but it may not. Also focus went from 1 damage prevention to 5. It makes a big difference to her assassination game.

Kae has the same amount of attacks with her crossbow in Mk III as she did in II, went from RoF 3 to Reload (2) with RoF 1.

>>47422290

How the hell did you get 8 shots? it was ROF3 in MK2 too.

>>47421980
It's a shitty reason, but that's literally the reason why it is so. They didn't balance factions on model level.

>>47422346
They didn't balance factions at all is the problem.

>>47422263
I don't think they do, I looked and it seems nobody knows anything.

>>47422369
Except no one played a single competitive game of warmachine mk3 yet to back that up.

>>47422290
>>Also focus went from 1 damage prevention to 5
that's not entirely accurate. focus went from 1 damage prevention which stacks and does not deplete as you take damage, to 5 damage prevention which does NOT stack and reduces as you use it. Old system: camp 5 focus, that's -5 damage on every attack next turn. New system: camp 5 focus, that's -5 damage once per attack for five attacks. consequences: single massive POW attacks and lots of pinpricks are what you want. with pinpricks they're wasting their focus negating less than 5 damage and will rapidly run out, with single uber-powerful attacks it overwhelms the caster's defenses.

>>47422327
It's been years since I played, I must of forgotten how it worked. My bad.

>>47422142
Ah. So this is the reason to not compare things across factions, right?
Otherwise recips would look really good compared to Cinnies.

To add further insult to injury we could always say something like: Yeah but cinerators are in menoth; so you get unit buffs and recursion !! Which is totally not the case in Cyriss !...

Yeah i know.

>>47422400
competitivity isn't a measure of balance.

>>47422251
Here's Cygnar https://my.mixtape.moe/eualmx.pdf

>>47422410
Very rarely did people camp 5 focus though. A small number of strong attacks makes the new system stronger, a large number of weak attacks makes the other system stronger.

>>47422416
Green is so much better than Black because Green gets +3/+3 at 1 mana, where as Black only gets +3/+1. Green is broken!

Who knew factions had identities that make different things have different value.

New Leak, has Cygnar, came from the new Mercy FB Group:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/rktt2uw29q3fy5k/AAAgvmEv04DYU2Gg_cqUxsDta?dl=0

>>47422433
and, your opinion is?

>>47419621
They do the same this, they just lost the two abilities that almost never came into play, and one that was super important. Rip dispell. Idk, I like them better than the skarloc, they're and auto include for scaverous because of their magic

>>47422400
Have you actually read the leaks? Can you look at them and tell me with a straight face that they actually playtested that garbage?

>>47422535
It feels like they playtested it with 4 players, 2 very good ones and 2 very bad ones. Can you guess who played what?

>>47422228
1. Thanks, you're a true bro
2. ...Is that what's beyond that link I posted? The URL said trollblood stat cards - and there's non of that in the RAR. Or was the original anon Trolling?

>>47422559
Skorne, Circle, Cygnar, Khador; in that order?

>>47422435
Based anon is based. Do you have the trolls?

>>47420134
You mean instead of just having armor piercing? The only units I'm really interested in are blood witches who can now saftly traipse about the board, and bane knights who are still superior to warriors in every way.

Triumph actually looks useful, oh happy day!

Rip Foxhole Line of Sight Shenanigans, you will be missed tho

>>47422598
>You mean instead of just having armor piercing?

Previously it was a special star attack, so you could only do it once a turn, and it cost focus to use. Powerful Attack ensures it'll hit, gives you a reasonable chance of getting a critical, and the boosted damage means it's going to hit hard for a disposable 7-point Bonejack.

>>47422535
Warmachine was surely playtested. At least most of it. Some units they just said fuck it, make it cheap and forget them like deliverers or kossites.

I don't play hordes so I can't comment on them. They got quite big overhaul with -1 fury and self animi everywhere.

fuckin' Kayazy Assassins got nerfed to shit! I just converted and painted a full unit to not look like shit too, and I'll never find a reason to ever field them.
WHAT THE HELL, PP! KHADOR DOESN'T EVEN HAVE A DEF BUFF ANYMORE!

>>47422781
>I don't play hordes so I can't comment on them. They got quite big overhaul with -1 fury and self animi everywhere.
Yeah Hordes seems kind of weird right now. But there we have it. Warmachine is balanced. Hordes is balanced. Now we only need to stop playing the two against each other.

Both Caine2 and Kara Sloan look like they're just going to murder the world.

>>47422788
But new iron flesh is better for them. Stealthed immune to blast unit is pretty much unshootable in mk3 bar some specific casters.

>>47422781
You mean like they said just fuck it to all of Cryx?

>>47422797
A lot of Cygnar really.

>>47422800
And some specific models.

Assimilators and Modulators say what up.

>>47422535
I don't think the cards are final is the thing.

There's a lot of really kooky shit in the books.

Take Convergence alone. The TEP as it reads in the rules is unplayable: it's impossible for it to place it's servitors.

In addition, Syntherion's feat is written pre-errata MK2. Why would his Mk3 feat not include the clause that they errataed into Mk2?

Unless these cards are a lot older than we think, and they're not final versions.

There's other shit as well: lots of factions are missing models in the spoilers, like the Hydra in Skorne

>>47422803
And what's wrong with Cryx as a faction?

>>47422650
Why playing Triumph when you have Dynamo that is better in eveything ?

Fuck Kara Sloan, Fuck Caine and Fuck Nemo3.

>>47422803
Isn't Scav like the most changed warcaster in the game, and massively buffed?

He looks fun as fuck to play, interesting, and powerful.

>>47422800
yeah, but they got -1MAT, -1DEF, Backstab was made into a mini-feat, and the Acrobatics mini-feat got taken away. they lost all their identity.

>>47422838
>I don't think the cards are final is the thing.
>There's a lot of really kooky shit in the books.
>Take Convergence alone. The TEP as it reads in the rules is unplayable: it's impossible for it to place it's servitors.
I know for a fact that they are final.

>>47422838
>There's other shit as well: lots of factions are missing models in the spoilers, like the Hydra in Skorne
Because those models are as of yet unreleased and thus don't need a card update.

>>47422838

the skorne extoller also references the mk2 soul rule on AGs, but they have a new one in mk3. the cards definitely arent the final ones, theres some wording adjustments to be done

>>47422866
So you know, for a fact, that the TEP is unplayable and that Syntherion's errata to his feat was reverted?

>>47422788
Nah bro, nah, you're looking at it the wrong way. What Khador DOES have is a blast-immunity spell they can put on the Kayazy who have stealth.

>>47422864
And in return they picked up the ability to fuck up high ARM single wound troops and tough models, giving them a new identity.

>>47422873
I can only confirm the former. The latter I admit is up in the air.