Pathfinder General /pfg/
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Old Thread
>>47411050
>>47417993
I'm pretty sure that's the point.
From the way they're talking about it, maybe Broken Blade won't be as much about unarmed at all?
Or maybe it'll be the Damage Unarmed, since FE is the Judo Throw Grapple Unarmed.
>>47417983
I'm not qualified to answer any of those, actually. Those two disciplines are ancient; they date back to when this was Libram of Battle. I know Chris had originally wanted four aligned disciplines and eventually the fluff for Crane and Seraph shifted towards angels & fiends in an effort for us to not have to do that because fuck no god why. Solar Wind I honestly don't have the tiniest clue.
You may wanna ask about Expanded disciplines.
>>47417996
QANON IS NO MAN
CAN QANON STILL BE A HERO?
>>47418058
How large is the DSP team anyways ?
How did you get stuck with the job of coming to 4chan to get yelled at?
Your last character is put in control of their nation of origin (or in lawless areas, the most powerful faction).
How quickly does everything go down the tubes?
>>47418098
I volunteered.
>>47418102
Last character we made or last character we played?
>>47418098
Gareth is a masochist for punishment
Forrest drew the short straw.
>>47418121
Last character you played.
>>47417993
It is not only that, it is the gun kata discipline that I have wished for in my dreams for many a moon. I am so freaking happy that my DM is letting me playtest it. At higher level I will be the dude jumping through the window dual-wielding pistol and kicking dudes. (For now I'm just the dude who shoots them, backflips then kicks them in the face)
>>47418015
Alrighty then. I am obliged to request information in the interests of better understanding, and possibly suggesting/writing - though this is unlikely as I am lazy - the discipline design process.
>Eternal Guardian
Let's begin here. How does one come up with this? What makes one go "this is what's needed", when one already has Iron Tortoise for defense and plenty of others for counters.
>Sleeping Goddess
Surely "Psionics" is/was not the entire concept of a discipline. That would be no different from going "undead" or "clerics" after all, and those are/were no good. Right? But, there it is, how did it come about?
Or, is perhaps the entire question wrong? Were disciplines designed from an in-character stance first, and developed from there?
If the latter were case I can imagine an 'undead' themed discipline that meets your approval rather than wrath would have been very different indeed; perhaps drawn up as something designed by a particular lich or vampire, thus focusing primarily on what's available to them.
If we follow that line of thinking, then the ones asking for a gun or tech discipline are indeed asking the wrong question entirely, as instead, it should be "If this is what I use, what kind of martial arts might I develop with the basis of having this in my hands".
>>47418102
If high level version then that character can literally create infinite money and infinite intelligent everything every day so there is no economy, everyone gets fat and the animated objects revolt and take over the world. So I dunno, like 3-5 years depending on how smart I make the animated objects?
>>47418119
I would kiss you but I live in south east Asia and probably won't be to your taste anyways.
>>47418102
The society would become pompous with honourable duels and fine dinner parties. In other words, right from day 1.
>>47418102
Being as she's a princess, she already sort of was.
The kingdom's already at war in like four directions, so she couldn't make it much worse, but damn if she wouldn't find a way.
>>47418167
> Immediately ask about Luke's disciplines.
Y u do this.
I'll answer after these dishes.
>>47418181
...Whyever not?
>>47418167
Under that premise, whoever came up with mithral current had to think to himself "oh gods I can't block with this it chips when I hit peasant bones", and developed a combat style almost entirely around the limitations and advantages of his weapon, focusing on fluid movements and minimizing the direct impacts against the edge.
Perhaps the creator originally tried to apply Primal Fury to it, and was immediately met with a series of embarrassing and nearly fatal results.
>>47418211
>le 'Japanese steel was worthless' meme
Can we not
>>47418136
The last character I played is a college student in Superhero Setting America with the superpower of coming back to life when he's killed.
He would fuck up pretty hard pretty fast, but the setting has the infrastructure to handle his panicked screwups.
>>47418136
Imagine Gul'dan "worshipping" Nyarlethotep in charge of all the drow controlled sections of the underdark while demon lords try to drive everybody insane (and he knows and wants to stop them while being paranoid everybody wants to kill him). So who knows.
Unless you mean Pathfinder, then you just have a menhir savant druid who wants nothing more than to eradicate undead running a nomadic tribe of casters in a desert that literally brings everything that died there back to life. Since that's the tribe's ultimate goal, never if you count their current state as ok. Oh and apparently a 20th level druid could just undo the undead causing spell that's been there for millennia.
Why aren't you playing a Magical Girl campaign, /pfg/?And from what kind of magical girl show?
>>47418240
...Are Symphogears mechas or mahous? We're playing that.
>>47418240
Because I'm playing in an Evil campaign,and on a different day of the week running a campaign that starts as an investigation and mutates into something vaguely resembling Steel Ball Run.
>>47418223
Anon didn't. S/he only pointed out they need to be handled differently.
You don't slam a rapier down on an enemy from 500ft in the air with 200 tons of machine behind the impact, and you don't aim for a sidestep and riposte to the opponent's clavicle with a colossal dadao.
Different strokes, different folks.
>>47418258
Funny, I'm about to play as an avant guard kineticist in a party with a summoner, I guess we'll be the villains though since I'm going to have time powers (especially if I can find a copy of kineticists of porphyra). We'll also have a one directional kiznaiver (zealot), traditional protagonist (warder), and an explosion mage (grenadier). We kind of are just anime.
>>47418253
>Are Symphogears mechas or mahous?
Yes
>>47418253
The line between the two is very thin.
I mean, Nanoha is based on a Gundam and Super Robot Wars Mecha mooks were used as Golems by the boss of the first season. On the other side we have Mecha that are powered by magic, hope and courage and a recently come out series about girls with the healing power of song using it to banish negative emotions.
That and Belka has turned up in both Magical Girl AND Mecha form.
Likely because a lot of Mecha and Magical Girl shows have a similar theme. Hope and Courage are powerful and can get you through trouble.
>>47418240
Well, someone's about to get arrested for Unauthorized Use of Magic.
>>47418240
>And from what kind of magical girl show?
Symphogays.
Is everyone ready for 2 more seasons?
>>47418302
Jokes about 'oh no my blade is so very easy to chip I can't even kill a peasant with it' sure read like meme shit.
But maybe I'm wrong.
>>47418345
The themes of the girls themselves as well.
Subaru's based on GGG, Nanoha's a Weissritter with added Fin-Funnels, Vita's the Alteisen...
>>47418367
You would be wrong; you don't NOT kill a peasant when you cut into the bone. Chipping a blade is bad in the long run, but it doesn't mean you've broken your fucking weapon.
The amount of force required for even the shittiest blade means you've dealt some major fucking trauma to the victim in the process, and the bone itself is probably at least cracked too.
>>47418448
Villain family in Nanoha Force is fucking Huckbeins.
Huckbeins, powered by "eclipse reactors".
>>47418448
Nanoha is actually based on a Gundam originally. Though she got a lot of Weissritter later on with Excellion mode and such.
Signum, now Signum there is no way to hide who she's supposed to be.
Hmm...Busty tall artificial human with a serious demeanor, bow and sword attacks and their final attack both having a Phoenix theme.
>>47418484
I am so disappointed with Force.
>>47418167
>Sleeping Goddess
>Surely "Psionics" is/was not the entire concept of a discipline. That would be no different from going "undead" or "clerics" after all, and those are/were no good. Right? But, there it is, how did it come about?
While I didn't invent the discipline from the start (it had already been written and rewritten twice by the time I was handed the disc), I was the one put in charge of its final incarnation.
So I guess I can answer that.
You're entirely correct. "Psionics" /is/ untenable as a concept for a discipline. It has so much stuff, even within a couple psionic disciplines, that it's unworkable if you try to make it do all of psionics. The first two things that got changed for its final incarnation was the power point augments and their scaling (because initiators have incredibly small power point reserves), and its fluff.
Sleeping Goddess, in its release form, focuses a lot on Psychometabolism and Telepathy, with a side-helping of Psychoportation. The fluff itself got changed to give it a concept that a discipline could be written around, rather than "generic psionic discipline with some dream stuff," which was proving to be too broad for the discipline; it was trying to cover too many bases at once.
The fluff that was written for it and formed the core of the revisions of the discipline was inspired by the Ardent from 3.5 and some fanwank about psionicists and Planescape gods I'd read years ago. Rather than being the broad concept of "psionics," Sleeping Goddess' concept is a fairly specific implementation of it: empowering yourself to something close to "godhood" through psionic power. You reject the reality of your body and substitute a better one, where you're in control of yourself and your blade. It was also given a secondary focus of being able to strike at others' beliefs and realities; just as you are in control of your version of the world, you can yank the control of others away.
>>47418167
>>47418517
The biggest way this is expressed is in the stances. Sleeping Goddess' stances are one of two things: (a) "my psionics makes my body BetterTM" or (b) "you cannot deny me." Sometimes both. Level 1 has "my psionics makes me fight better" and "I walk where I want." Level 3 has "my body is my temple, which means your magic ain't doing shit." Level 5 is "you can't ignore me. Ever." Level 6 is "you can't hide from me," and level 8 is "you're in the presence of a god. Know your place."
The line of alliterative boosts, likewise, are about denying something and asserting your own version. At level 2, you've got "I'm not afraid of you." Level 6 has "out of gas? Hah no." Level 8 has "no, I'm actually not dead." The core idea being that you are a boundless source of power because you've tempered your psionic abilities with your belief that you will succeed.
Now, with this stated, the discipline is still a little awkward. Many of the maneuvers kept similar names or mechanics, reworked to be more in keeping with the new fluff. While a decent amount of maneuvers got cut/altered/replaced, its origin as "the psionics discipline" is still very visible. A lot of what was originally in the discipline ended up needing to stay, even if it was slightly altered in scope. That's where the psychoportation stuff in the disc comes from, really. The end result is a discipline that I am happy with, but wish I could have done a little more with.
>>47418167
Okay, so, I'ma let Forrest answer about Sleeping Goddess because she and Anthony were responsible for its modern form. Actually, they were also largely responsible for bringing Eternal Guardian into line, but let's talk about that. So:
> Eternal Guardian
Pic. Fucking. Related.
So once upon a time, Luke floated not one, not two, but /three/ "undead" disciplines at us on our forums, back before they changed over to their modern incarnation. One was for "feeding" undead (vampires, shadows), one was for "avenging" undead (revenants, graveknights), and one was for "warding" undead (mummies, liches). The bossman asked me to take a look at them, and I gave an honest critique, to which Luke replied by whining, complaining that they were all valid discipline ideas, and generally ignoring me.
He was added to my team about four months later. If you think I'm still angry about that, congratulations, you are fucking correct.
Luke was given the chance to cut his teeth on a psionic initiator class. He pitched us a concept of a psionic swordsman who used his power points to make 'meta-maneuvers', augmenting his disciplines and altering them on fundamental levels. It would include the PoW rework of Sleeping Goddess, graciously donated to us by its original author, and he also wanted Eternal Guardian in, retooled in its fluff to not be an undead discipline.
We got Zealot instead. If you think I'm still angry about that, congratulations again. You are fucking correct.
Guardian was ultimately kept for three reasons. The first is we already showed it and it got popular, which is part of the reason we're careful about what we show these days; there's been too many cases on us having to go back on something that turns out to be stupid, unworkable, or both, and then eating the hit for it. However, that's honestly the /smallest/ reason.
>>47418532
The second reason for Eternal Guardian being kept was the existence of a niche for a kind of punishment tank. The core theme of EG is the idea of 'bad choices'. Enemies can eat your debuff, or they can eat a different penalty to get rid of it. It forms a more active kind of tanking than Iron Tortoise, in which you protect your allies both by presenting a threat and by constraining what your enemies will, won't, and even /can/ do.
The third reason was to have a discipline that also used the curse condition but in a different way than Cursed Razor, both so they'd have synergy and to experiment with curses for later products down the line.
Did you have further questions, or questions on other discs?
>>47418517
Forrest. Plz make judo choke grasp discipline. Status debuffs, fatigues, nauseau. Even grasp manuevers that function like poisons. Please.
Please.plz
>>47418240
Nanoha's team as well as maybe Sailormoon's is probably the hardest to stat in Pathfinder, but go ahead and prove me wrong, /pfg/
>>47418546
Is there a chance we'll ever see a draconic themed (if not in how it acts then in the fluff via being from lizardfolk or others who wanted to emulate the power of a dragon) discipline or archetype?
>>47418571
Youve been told why its a terrible idea.
Stop.
>>47418571
Anon, leaving aside every rational response I have to that: we need to finish the errata, get Medic, Fool's Errand, and [Sekrit] finished, and then take a long, long break from Path of War, during which we write literally anything else.
Hands-down, this set of projects has been the single-most frustrating, stressful, discouraging, depressing, and enraging for the writers and entire team.
We ain't doin' anything that's not already a spinning plate for it, not for a very long time.
Please understand.
>>47418532
Sounds rough, buddy.
>>47418588
Discipline? Probably not. Archetype? Not outside the realms of possibility.
>>47418571
Just grab the Greater Grapple feat, grapple the shit out of your foes, and hit them with standard action strikes of the appropriate discipline, refluffed as appropriate.
>>47418603
Thank you all for your noble sacrifice!
>>47418600
Actually no. I've had a person say "why don't you just full attack dude", and I've explained my position... and no discussion beyond that has happened. I feel there's a niche for it and it's another interesting way of using the grasp condition. Do you actually have a counterargument to that?
You declaring 'victory' on a disagreement doesn't actually make you right.
>>47418603
:(
>>47418631
I was honestly just expecting you to either say no or maybe. Today was a good day, now to pass out since it's 3AM and I have to be up in six hours.
>>47418647
It's been explained as too narrow a focus.
How many natural attack can you put onto a humanoid PC?
Starting: Claw/Claw/Bite
Helm of the Mammoth Lord : Gore
Fleshwarped Scorpion's Tail : Sting
anything else?
>>47418639
How can you miss the point this hard. It's been repeated practically ad nauseum that the goal is using grasp to apply status debuffs. Not using grasp to then perform full attacks (or strike equivalents).
>>47418663
That has literally never come up until just fucking now, and while it may be true the narrow initial focus can be broadened.
>>47418571
>>47418647
>>47418686
Fool's Errand was written to fill a specific need and niche, and grasp was intended as a way to get the fluff and feel of melee control and grabbing without tangling with extra complexities of emulating specific parts of holds and wrestling and grappling. The discipline /would not exist at all/ without the issues Broken Blade has been having in the PoW errata project, and adding more disciplines that overlap isn't something that we want to do.
And really, Fool's Errand is already shaky on that front. Another unarmed discipline that both overlaps with FE AND Broken Blade would have problems of its own, on top of the idea being something that probably couldn't hold up an entire discipline even if you stretched it. A discipline is BIG, especially for a concept that's relatively simple ("apply conditions to people you've grabbed in some way").
I think that it would fit much better in the design space of a feat or two, or maybe an archetype for something. Fool's Errand Style already does something similar, though not on the scale you're looking for. Quick Dirty Trick can apply debuffs in the same way, though it's feat hungry.
It may happen that the concept of holds and locks gets expanded with Fool's Errand, but it's not going to happen as a discipline. Overall, I wouldn't quite count the concept itself out, but as Gareth said, right now what's happening is getting the current projects out, then a break for sanity.I hate the disappearing storefront captchas so much.
>>47418484
>>47418504
It sure is a good thing force got cancelled and more or less expelled from canon, fuck that noise.
>>47418647
>>47418588
if you're looking for something draconic themed, why not just pick up Chimera Soul and fluff all the natural weapon stuffs as draconic abilities?
>>47418704
Fool's Errand is shit.
SHIIIIIIIT
>>47418806
Anon, you misspelled your waifu's name.
>>47418806
Wow. Rude.
>>47418806
I'm sorry you feel that way. If you could expand on that, I'm always happy to take feedback.
>>47418704
Can you maybe do a few boosts or something that [apply condition]. Even something that allows you apply a pre-made poison or a stunning blow effect to something grasped would work.
>>47418859
What do you expect him to drop? The discipline is full of super cool things that I wouldn't want to give up, and it's already very controlly.
>>47418882
>What do you expect him to drop?
You on your goddamn head, and then follow that up with dropping the peoples elbow on your head. Shut up. I can ask goddamnit.
>>47418899
Okay that was good, given the context. Worth the concussion.
>>47418844
Actually it's been talked about a lot in here. My big ones are the following:
>Grasp is too strong as a combat maneuver in it's ability to move around creatures, especially with how bonuses to the climb skill work (racial bonuses)
>Duplicating maneuvers, such as using the 9th level maneuver, is imbalanced as it invalidates most choices for readying maneuvers (particularity for classes with cheap recovery mechanics, i.e. the zealot)
>the one counter that everyone mentions, which seems to have actually been buffed because you can do it in response to failing a save
>massive overlap with other disciplines (looking at broken blade)
>the one stance everyone always mentions (thematically bad and overly complex for what it does)
>>47418919
>Duplicating maneuvers
is the huge one for me.
There's a reason so many wizards prepare Shadow illusions, and I really didn't want that shit to make it into PoW. When your capstone is basically "martial Wish", you're committing the same sins PoW was created to avoid.
>>47418919
Except
>Grasp doesn't even work off Climb bonus anymore
>The anti-magic counter is just IHS, except not worded in a broken way
>Fool's Errand literally exists to present an alternative to Broken Blade, which is getting heavily reworked anyway
>Some of us really fucking like The Ladder, and there's just as many people who have no issue with it as the whiners
I'll cede 'duplicating maneuvers' because while it doesn't bother me, I can see how it could be an issue.
>>47418987
The "sins PoW was created to avoid" was boring martials, and I don't see this being boring.
Additionally, this is the equivalent of a fucking wish - it's level 17 minimum. At that point you have access to such a ridiculous array of shenanigans that it ceases to be a meaningful problem. The game has long since broken down - revel in it.
For the rest, see >>47419013 's post.
>>47419022
>this is the equivalent of a fucking wish
Really? Must've missed the part where a single use costs a 16th of your entire WBL. Oh, no, that's right, it costs nothing, you can just do it. Multiple times per combat.
>>47418987
>>47419043
Actually, that's... not a _terrible_ thought? Make it less like Wish, and more like Shades? "Replicate any maneuver at full effectiveness" is, let's be real here, one of the best, if not the best, capstones in the system.
"Replicate any maneuver at partial effectiveness, because you're not actually trained in that style, but you're still Just That Good"? I'm totally down for that.
>>47418919
>Grasp is too strong as a combat maneuver in it's ability to move around creatures, especially with how bonuses to the climb skill work (racial bonuses)
Grasp works on a Reflex save. It's worked that way for about two weeks.
>Duplicating maneuvers, such as using the 9th level maneuver, is imbalanced as it invalidates most choices for readying maneuvers (particularity for classes with cheap recovery mechanics, i.e. the zealot)
While Proof of Victory is strong and versatile, the things it's comparing to at 9ths are just as strong if not stronger. The balance on the maneuver is something we're keeping a close eye on (just like several of the other big splashy maneuvers). For the other duplicator, it recently got nerfed, and also doesn't care about recovery at all (you can only use the thing once before you have to find another person to copy from).
To some of the other posters here, I would like to object to the comparisons to Wish. It's nowhere /near/ as flexible as that spell (or Miracle, which does not cost money to use, making it a closer but still flawed comparison). Maneuvers are good, yes, but they're very limited in their overall scope. Proof of Victory lets you pull some variety of "I hit him" or "he doesn't hit me" out of your hat, but the power of Miracle- and Wish-emulated spells is that you can pull from a wide, ever-increasing list of campaign-changing effects, silver bullets, and instant solutions to problems. I would say that a better analogy for it would be the Shadow Evocation line of spells. It's possible that the maneuver will be tweaked down the line. I can't say anything for sure at 4am though.christ, the walls of text today. 1/2.
>>47419043
On the other hand, no 7th or 8th level maneuver is not capable of:
Reviving the dead, permanently increasing stats, removing otherwise irremovable status conditions/effects on the world, reshaping vast swathes of terrain...
It's an incredible amount of versatility in the scope of 'hit folks good', but it definitely doesn't have the impact on a campaign of a Wish.
>>47419076
>>47419043
The capstone maneuver can only imitate the 8th-level-or-lower maneuvers of disciplines you know, or the 7th-and-below maneuvers of those that you don't. It STILL can't imitate things perfectly, and as was mentioned earlier doing so still fails in an antimagic field if the maneuver is supernatural (so no, you can't use an (Ex)-version of a 9th-level maneuver).
>>47418919
>>47419097
>the one counter that everyone mentions, which seems to have actually been buffed because you can do it in response to failing a save
Assert Existence was rather heavily nerfed from its original incarnation. It could always be used in response to failing a save (on account of immunity just hard-noping things), only now it only makes you a golem instead of protecting you from everything. It may be changed further. We're keeping an eye on this one too.
>massive overlap with other disciplines (looking at broken blade)
As has been noted (in this very thread, in fact), Fool's Errand was written to fill a niche that Broken Blade /tried/ to fill and failed to. It was created in response to the fact that we cannot make Broken Blade fill that niche in the PoW 1 errata project.
>the one stance everyone always mentions (thematically bad and overly complex for what it does)
While I cannot agree with you thematically (The Ladder is based on a fairly common concept in fiction), could you elaborate on the complexity aspect? From what I can tell, it actually makes your movement a bit /less/ complex than flight, thanks to how Fly checks and maneuvering works. It's basically a fly speed + a better Flyby Attack, except it has a unique twist to make it feel different in practice. We've gotten a lot of comments about it being slightly complex, but not that it's overly so.
Thank you for taking the time to expand your feedback from "SHIIIIIIIT," in any case. I find these discussions quite helpful for taking a step back and giving the material another look.
So I'm the idiot from a few threads back who wanted to convert Noble Scion into a decent Base Class. This is a very rough draft of what I want to do, I'd greatly appreciate any suggestions.
http://pastebin.com/PXRBdzad
Post more of this
>Well the idea is to set it in the here and now, but draw from multiple sources ranging from Supernatural, the Dresden Files, the Laundry Files, Night's Black Agents to name a few
In view, the players represent a counter-occult/counter-supernatural agency with directives to ensure the brutal put-down of any unsanctioned occult/paranormal/supernatural threat; they are wetworkers, troubleshooters and hazard specialists.
The masses must be kept ignorant
And thus these agents use the very tools that the general public have very little or no idea about; currency in the form of gold pieces exists to ensure the upgradibility of magic items and objects
Combat is meant to be brutal, so I may actually look at FantasyCraft for ideas
The players are supposed to be starting at 1st level, with all 1pp supplements and PoW and psionics available to them
I'm 7th level psion-shaper.
Which feats you can offer for this levelup, outside of metapsionics and additional psifocus?
Feats that I already have: Advanced Construct, Boost Construct, Overchannel, Psicrystal Affinity, Psionic Meditation, Talented
>>47418677
2x Hooves from rage power, beastmorph or ragebred skinwalker
Alchemist can get tentacles I think.
>>47418102
So under the leadership of the Dread Queen of the Worldwound, armies of demons pour out of the portal with one goal in mind; making as many good friends as they can.
Once cruel Balors stop slaughtering mortals and instead end up as enormous adorkable bros, Succubi end up losing their sexual focus and learn to sap the souls of many good friends in ways that do not harm them and Mariliths go around not as bloodthirsty reavers but aspiring warriors looking for strong allies to spar and drink alongside.
Well, this until her Psicrystal gets destroyed or something, in which case one of the worst incursions of nightmarish horrors comes to pass.
Liz is not a mentally healthy girl; going from 'so good it would make a paladin blush' to 'sociopathic murderer' at the flick of a switch under the right circumstances.
She does loath herself for this though.
>>47419111
If anyone (Forrest or otherwise) could elaborate on the issues with broken blade, I'd be grateful.
I'm going to spend a feat or two trying out Experimental Word Caster feat as a sorcerer.
Any recommend effect word? What are some cool combo I can do?
>>47418532
Sorry, read it but was unable to answer on the bus - attempting so gives a giant pink/red screen with *website banned: pornography* written all over it.
I actually *like* Guardian, by the way.
How about two simpler (hopefully less anger inducing?) ones then: Elemental Flux and the ever-popular Tempest Gale (or Riven Hourglass if you'd prefer)... or was that the other way around?
How/where does one start so as to get to those? Also how did "this one does all four elements" come about in relation to the existence of Solar Wind, and how were those reconciled?
>We need something for spellcraft?
>There should be a discipline that handles the four elements better than how we did Solar Wind given its resist/immunity drawbacks?
>I want Avatar?
Where did the process start.
>>47418102
That depends on how well the crust can handle so many city-sized hyperspace vessels being smelted and turned to a new fleet.
And uh, also whether the atmosphere on golarion can handle the energy bleeding out when they fire.
>>47418582
The main reason it's so hard is that the only charge-shot mechanics are the kineticist and 3.5 touhou fan-written martial discipline "divine flame".
Otherwise they're all rather Aegis.
>>47419931
Nanoha is a straight up blaster wizard.
Fate is a PoW Zwei Sent
>>47418708
Very good. It was really a terrible, edgy direction to take it.
I thought I was in /srwg/ for awhile there..
>>47419885
Damage values are generally way too high when you use it with two handed weapons. For all of these, assume 18 Str and a greatsword. None of these factor in stat increases, feats, stances, or gear. Just 18 Str, a greatsword, and strike/boosts
Level 1: Flurry Strike: net damage 4d6+12 as a standard
Level 3: Bronze Knuckle+Flurry Strike: net damage 8d6+12 as a swift+standard. And ignore DR
Level 5: Bronze Knuckle+Steel Flurry Strike: -2 to hit, but 21d6+18 on swift+standard. And ignore DR
Level 7: Iron Knuckle+Steel Flurry Strike: -2 to hit, 27d6+18 on swift+standard. This one requires Weapon Group Adaptation due to restrictions on Iron Knuckle
Sup pfg!
I decided, since I'm in a port city that has a big fishing industry, that I want to make a robe of infinite twine and open up a rope store.
Good idea, bad idea? Any arguments I could use for my GM to let me make this happen?
It can make up to 48,000 feet of rope per (8 hour) day, which means about 960 GP worth. I would say after taxes, wages and whatever else, I'd get maybe a 4th, or a bit less. I have the idea that I'd roll a DC20 to decide what I'd make for each day, using some simple formula.
Is this a dumb idea?
>>47420263
Why a greatsword and not a sansetsukon, saving you from having to take Weapon Group Adaptation?
>>47420324
Because I'm lazy and can't be bothered to go to a new page of the PFSRD :P
Players are supposed to be investigating/lost Innawoods
I want to give some inbred hillbillies bloodrager and initiator levels. Is this too cruel?
>>47420447
Level is pretty relevant here
aberrant bloodragers could make for some fitting degenerates
for initiators, I'd avoid damage boosters. Focus on mobility or debuff, and counters
>>47420316
You mad man, you'll crash the rope market.
>>47420618
Their levels are to fuck shit up, so dunno probably 4th as the players are 1st level. I told to prepare multiple back ups just in case
Each of them is given a candle which represents their lifeline
>>47420681
...so basically you're planning to meatgrinder the players unless they go full cheesy casters with high DC color sprays and shit?
>>47420718
It's a horror scenario, so up to them what they bring to the table
Pow shenanigans is advised
>>47420740
not really a horror scenario. PF does horror pretty badly. This is "throw new PCs at the enemies until we get enough crits to drop them". That or optimize for level 1 move speed and gtfo
>>47420740
I'll be honest, if you stat them out, your NPC-form-bad-ends will probably manage to find a way to die horribly. 4th isn't totally out of reach for cheese and crits ruining an encounter, but if you WANT the PCs to just body your hillbillies that's probably fine.
>>47420889
>Hobgoblins
>Union Health and Safety
-20 to Bluff check, lie is impossible.
>>47420447
Ambush Hunter Rangers with pig and goat companions.
Have their leader be a Hussar with a giant boar, and have a few old men as Banjo/Clay-Jug/Harmonica Rubatos
Would these be overpowered or suit PF?
Crushing Surge (Ex)- The feel of your weapon crunching against the enemy puts your heart back into the fight. As a standard action, make a melee attack against a single creature in range. If you hit and deal damage, you gain temporary hit points equal to your con mod. At level 21, double your weapon's damage dice with this attack.
Disheartening Strike (Ex)- The bite of your weapon is deepened by the sting of your ire. As a standard action, make a melee or ranged attack with a light weapon against one creature in range. If you are trained in Intimidate and the attack hits, the target takes a -2 fear penalty to attack rolls until the end of your next turn. At level 21, double your weapon's damage dice with this attack.
Piercing Strike (Ex)- A needle-sharp point slips past armor and into tender flesh. As a standard action, make a melee attack with a light blade against a creature in range. The attack targets reflex instead of AC. At level 21, double your weapon's damage dice with this attack.
>>47421182
They don't seem very strong. I honestly wouldn't ever think about using them unless I only had a standard to attack anyways.
Piercing Strike being against touch would make more sense.
>>47421182
well, the improvements at 21 are completely irrelevant since PF caps at 20. These are pretty clearly pulled from 4e, and while the ideas are solid (temp HP on hit, debuff on hit, easier hit),the execution will need to be modified. Speicifcally, Crushing doesn't do enough, disheartening should lose the weapon restrictions and is honestly pretty meh at best, and piercing is straight non-functional since PF doesn't use static defenses beyond AC/CMD
>>47421182
The first one has a rough equivalent in Martial Power: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/path-of-war/feats#TOC-Martial-Power-Combat-
The second one... penalties are not typed. It may also be partially replicating Cornugon Smash, though that requires Power Attack.
Piercing Strike's equivalent would be versus touch, not reflex. Saves are saving throws; the "attack" is a static DC and the defense is a roll, which is the inverse of how attacks go (attacks are rolls, defenses are static).
>>47420316
You still have to roll Profession: Merchant check. It represent how many people actually buy your rope.
I mean.. if a suspecious murder hobo is saying, he is selling a rope made from under his rope.. I would be wary too.
Question: can you change weapons in the middle of a full attack action with the quick draw feat (dropping your previous weapon and drawing the new one as free actions)?
>>47422061
Yes. Why wouldn't you?
Is Monk of the Silver Fist compatible with unchained Monk?
>>47422108
By RAW, no, by begging your DM, yes.
>>47422070
During last night's game my switch hitting ranger dropped the opponent he was facing off against with a TWF attack and then wanted to switch to his bow with rapid shot, but my DM told me I couldn't. I was curious as to whether there was a specific prohibition against switching weapons like that in full attack in the rules or if it was just my DM's rules.
>>47422136
I'd take issue with rapidshot as the feat specifically calls out the first attack and you wouldn't have paid the attack penalty on the first two attacks, but otherwise that was a perfectly legit sequence of actions.
>>47418504
Don't they even share a voice actor?
How would you make her in pathfinder, even? War Soul with a focus on mithral current and elemental flux? Not really easy to get a sword-whip though....
>>47418102
The Land of the Linnorm Kings chugs along, much as it has for centuries. Perhaps when he is older, he will seek out Fafnheir and slay the old worm, uniting the lands and creating an everlasting realm ruled by one High King.
>>47422199
Yep. They have the exact same voice actor.
In a whole series of not very subtle references, she is by far the least subtle.
>>47422213
It's a wonderful thing to watch them go from full-out magical girl to mini-mecha over the life of the series. The shout-outs only add to that.
>>47420990
Hobgoblins probably have safety standards, don't want to kill a soldier that could've been saved by a simple string of rope or extra pinch of salt.
>>47418919
>Grasp is too strong as a combat maneuver in it's ability to move around creatures, especially with how bonuses to the climb skill work (racial bonuses)
Confirmed for never even paying attention to the fixes.
>>47422256
yes, but they dont seem like the type for unions
>>47422184
What if I turned the attacks around: rapid shotting with my first attack and then TWFing for the second?
>>47422319
Then you would have had to have eaten both sets of penalties across all of your attacks, imo.
>>47418240
>>47418582
>>47419931
>>47419950
Well, there's Tome of Radiance:
http://tome-of-radiance.wikia.com/wiki/Tome_of_Radiance_Wiki
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?258654-Tome-of-Radiance-Mastering-the-Power-of-Love-and-Justice
It pretty much only works in full magical girl game, and if you are running that, there should be better system than PF for that purpose.
>>47421182
>>47421313
I believe that they are quite literally pulled from a 4e trashing thread where someone translated a couple abilities into language more akin to 3.pf to demonstrate that reactions to them were ridiculous.
>>47422319
In that case rapidshot is fine, but you'd take the -2 on your TWF on top of the usual penalties. I'd also require you to have the TWF (or maybe even the ITWF) feat in order to do so, as well. Unfortunately this is an area where the rules aren't super clear, so it'd down to GM interpretation.
>>47418677
Starting with aasimar.
6 levels of urban barbarian with an agile amulet of mighty fists for dex to hit and damage, 1 level of white haired witxh. then whatever maybe horizon walker to start the dimensional dervish chain
2 claws from lesser abyssal blood lesser rage power
1 gore from lesser fiendish totem rage power
1 bite from animal fury rage power
1 gore from helm of the mammoth lords (debatably a different "body part")
1 hair from white-haired witch
2 tentacles from tentacle cloak
1 from
2 wings from metallic wings feats
2 hooves from monstrous extremities wand
Although synthesists can still get more.
>>47419897
> Decide to ask about more discs
> None are discs I wrote
What happened to our love, anon.
Will answer about Flux when I can. Hourglass I can't really talk about, that one's Chris; Gale was Anthony and I'm asking him about it now.
>>47422731
To be fair, I think the reason nobody asks about Mirror/Razor is because their intents were pretty clear, in a good way.
Razor:
>This is the debuff discipline, got it
Mirror:
>This is the copycat/weird stuff discipline
(Did you do any other PoWE disciplines)
Hello /pfg/.
How do you handle magic item creation?
The official rules are kinda meh, with many items overpriced and others underpriced (Helm of the cyclop, I'm looking at you), and the custom item creation rules are very iffy, requiring the DM to balance everything.
I plan on using the modified Craft rules (Making Craft Work™) for magic items, with improved complexity based on the total alteration bonus of magic item / their CL or price, but I've yet to test those changesbecause my players are too low level yet.
Anons, I'll be running a game with a room full of enchanted bear traps next week. What are some cool spells to enchant the traps with? Prefs low level stuff (lv2 max) since they can take the traps as loot if they can disconnect them.
Ideas currently include silent image or disguise weapon to hide the traps, any of the minor touch spells, forced quiet, glue seal, memory lapse for lulz, obscuring mists to hide other traps, touch of gracelessness / ray of sickening to increase escape DC. Might have an assist with telekinesis / magnetist gloves / Pilfering Hand in the room to fuck them up a bit too.
Anything cool or extra lulzy I missed? Party is 7th level so not too worried about the traps killing them.
>>47423000
Create Pit? The bear trap latches on and then they get dragged to the bottom of a hole where no one can help them out?
>>47423000
brand and light could be fun. Long term marks and making the PCs glow?
>>47418603
What is sekrit? Any hints?
>>47423176
They can't tell you what it is, it's a sekrit.
>>47423176
Something about cleaning Porsches.
Probably a racing TTRPG.
>>47419586
What do you want to do?
>>47419253
I want to take a look at this when I get home, since I like the noble scion.
>>47422944I did not.
>>47419897
>>47422731
So I asked Anthony about Gale, and the answer is that YOUR WAIFU IS SH - wait, wrong conversation.
So, to open up with: there was a call/niche for a second ranged discipline, in part because Solar Wind was found to be underwhelming (in a related story, it, too, is slated for errata to help it find its identity) but also because there was an open niche to express ranged combat in another manner. The flavor theme of 'trick shots' helped to express a lot of the control elements that are absent in ranged characters, as well as enable new concepts and let you play a ranged character that's a bit more of a team player as opposed to a murder turret.Which has not stopped people from bitching endlessly that they're not murder turrets.
As for Elemental Flux, its initial reason for existing was the same 'jesus fuck no god why' as not doing four alignment disciplines; Chris had originally envisioned four separate elemental disciplines. Flux's current form is both to fill that niche, which has been commonly expressed before - in classes like Magus or Duskblade, and in options like Arcane Strike or PrCs like Spellsword - and to provide that just-off-to-the-left kinda striking and utility that it does.
Please realize, for the most part /my/ involvement in disciplines that aren't my own is to gauge if the concept feels like a disc/is mechanically workable as one, and then to provide feedback & edits.
I still am not entirely certain why you've gone for this line of questioning, though.
>>47423424
Was ranged blasting discipline ever discussed beyond 'nobody in the team is interested in writing it'?
>>47422970
I've been enjoying the dynamic crafting rules for magic items. Harder to make stuff at low levels, and it makes the feats more than just "double your WBL"
>>47423614
Define 'ranged blasting'. Are you talking lasers? Pure ranged damage? That one guy in every martial arts show who throws bombs at people?
>>47423652
>Are you talking lasers? Pure ranged damage?
This.
>>47422970
>the custom item creation rules are very iffy, requiring the DM to balance everything.
Given the sheer variety in magical effects available and how certain spells are simply better when put on a magic item than other spells of the same level, you're not going to get rid of that.
Don't hide it from me, /pfg/! How did your weekend session go?
>>47422283
They're generally lawful.
>>47423720
WHAT weekend session?
>>47423681
How do you make a whole disc around "You do XdY at Z range"? funadamentally, you need more to pad out the discipline. And when you add padding, you end up with something like Flux
>>47423720
My Sacred Fist delivered a flaming dropkick to some tumbleweeds. It was fun
>>47418102
Numeria wizard land now
>>47423652
It's probably not what you wanted to hear, but a discipline based on "that one guy in every martial arts show that throws bombs at people" sounds amazing.
>Trying to homebrew a discipline
>Start off making a bunch of cool maneuvers and stances
>Start thinking about how they'd all fit in with every single class in the universe since anyone can initiate
>This is too strong, this is too strong, this is too strong
>End up cutting literally everything I've written down because there's a class that can abuse it horribly
My respect for DSP's ability to actually keep PoW balanced has quadrupled.
>>47423720
We decided attacking the port again might be a good idea, albeit now with some pirate support.
Ulfen Warder kissed the Kitsune Beguiler, super cute!
>>47423614
>>47423652
Honestly I feel like a discipline is less required for Ranged Blasting and more like one of those meta-archetypes like Bushi.
Replace something minor with magic bolts (Like the Warlock Vigilante but not shit) that are comparable to a decent ranged weapon + access to Elemental Flux and bam. You now have your Fire Emblem style mages who can punch fireballs and throw bolts of ice.
As there are plenty of actual disciplines that do various fun things for ranged attacks. It wouldn't take much to make a magic weapon to apply them to.
Mostly pondering this because it's come up in a few threads.
Hey pfg, my favorite class in anything ever is swashbuckler type stuff. There a good way to do that without being a drag on a group?
>>47424050
UCRogue if you wanna go martial and you only have 1pp available.
You can refluff Magus stuff if you're willing to involve magic.
If 3pp is available, I'd guess anything with Scarlet Throne.
>>47423892I was thinking of Ruroni Kenshin but that works too.
>>47423681
See >>47423842. Part of the reason we're taking a look at Wind is because it's essentially just damage with a light scattering of other effects and we wanna give it a firmer identity.
We /have/ considered alternative uses for the maneuver system - that is, using the idea of readying, recovering, maybe even the easy multiclassing, in other contexts - but nothing concrete and nothing I'm willing or able to talk about.
>>47424067
>>47424050
If you're limited to 1pp only, Vigilante's actually not terrible for this, either. Dex to damage is really nice, but Lethal Grace makes up for it pretty well, especially if you wanted to do a more rapier and main gauche TWF build.
>>47423842
>funadamentally, you need more to pad out the discipline
Yes, you add few counters, control effects, and a pinch ofbefriending.
>And when you add padding, you end up with something like Flux
Flux is still 'I hit it with my (flaming) sword'. I got the whole idea of not using a weapon on accident when I plotted one dpr chart (see next post).
>>47424040
>and more like one of those meta-archetypes like Bushi
I was thinking VMC, but without actual base class. Which is just a feat chain, hmmm. Maybe I'll try to stuff everything into stances and maybe style feats in the end.
>>47424067
>>47424133
Alright. What the fuck is 1pp? 1st party? forgive my faggotry, PF has never been my deal
>RoW campaign on roll20
>ask to join
>says they got people who are joining going to keep me in mind if they dont join
>come check at a later date
>like three people left the game
>people posted after me get in
>no pm and no invite from them
Kinda mad but if so many people left there must be a reason for it right?
>>47424200
Yes
>>47424032
>Ulfen Warder kissed the Kitsune Beguiler, super cute!
>>47423681
>>47423842
The host of heroes aegis does that.
>>47424211
So what am I looking at here? Did you make this yourself?
>>47424280
Looks like the old version of the One Punch Man strike from Fool's Errand.
>>47424271
Pretty terribly and not even out of the box last I checked.
>>47424294
Initiator's Soul, weapon-like touch attack ranged blasts, the ability to spend pp to get +1d6 damage (maybe +1d6+2 per power point), and a soft debuff on every attack you make?
Later on, it ALSO lets you full attack with potentially three cubes of explosions per attack.
The problem is that it comes online at level 6. Before level 6, you have the Ranged Attack customization and can strike with it.
Anyone happen to have echelon expansions: draconic bloodlines in pdf? Cant seem to find in the trove and dunno if its worth the $5
>>47424280
The graph? Yes, I did. It's dpr over 20 levels of mildly optimized fighter archer and blaster sorcerer. I was quite surprised to see that multiplying archer's dex or sorcerer's cha by their character level produces a number that's quite close to their dpr (columns T and Y).
Best disciplines for a psychic armory/warsoul soulknife?
I'm looking for all the feats or classes that make CHA enhance things besides social skills or spontaneous arcane casting, anyone got a list?
>>47424591
Razor Wit, from DSP's april thing.
>>47424591
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1o91Z-s0R7Vf2Ujj1lFqGC5W--9JOyU0I6uC9XRIR5to/mobilebasic?pli=1
Or use google to find out if it's the latest one or not.
>>47424481
I'm actually a little confused about this build myself. How exactly does applying abilities to your swords work? Does the panopoly count as thrown weapons so I can give them stuff that specifically benefits range weapons, or are they just "throwing a non-thrown type weapon but without the penalty for improvised weapon"?
>>47424744
They're thrown weapons
>Be me
>Be looking for a home group where the GM isn't a complete bleach-chugging retarded, and won't disappear after a session.
>Find an ad for a game where DSP material is vastly encouraged
>yespls.gif
>Respond to the ad
>Less than 6 hours later the GM deletes the ad, contacting no one.
>MFW
>>47424824
It hurts, doesn't it?
>>47424844
Yes. Yes, it does.
I just want to play a game...
>>47423720
Wasn't a weekend session, but pretty good!
We were all stashed aboard a smuggler's ship because it was a cheap ride to our nebulous destination! We hung out with some shady folks from a criminal organization and made friends with an orc who didn't do Common so good.
Unfortunately it turned out his goblin buddy was planning to leave us stranded, and before we could investigate further the next day, the boat crashed, the goblin got in a fight with the captain and shot him, and the orc went into a berserker rage when we caught them red handed.
So we had to murder our orc buddy and the goblin escaped onto a spooky evil island.
Next week, we're gonna explore that island! There's a castle on it.
>>47424271
Not for an entire discipline it doesn't. That would be around 50 maneuvers including strikes, boosts, stances, and counters
/pfg/ my party is setting off on a month long trek across the desert with a caravan. What sort of hazards should we prepare for or be on the lookout for aside from the usual tropes like highwaymen?
>>47425222
Airborne creature attacks, traveling next to a nest of monsters, a regiment of deserters desperate for supplies, an opposing cavalry wing that is on patrol, typical bandits, sandworms.
If your GM is as devious and clever as mine, you're girded for everything.
>>47425222
Bulettes, sandworms, Blue Dragons, sandworms, Ghuls, mummies, sandworms, sandstorms, walking cacti, sandworms, quicksand, flash floods, depression, heat stroke, sandworms, and unclean water.
>>47425166
It does it for every ranged maneuver. Literally all of them. It has a ranged touch attack at-will boostable blast that can become AoE.Disciplines are also 30 maneuvers and 6 stances, not 50.
>>47425222
Scarab beetles.Dear god...
>>47425166
>That would be around 50 maneuvers including strikes, boosts, stances, and counters
What are good magical girl shows to poach for maneuvers?
>>47424198 is only Nanoha herself, though there are like eight variants of both divine buster and starlight breaker, and some spells not shown in anime, if I ever get to filling dead maneuver levels with them.
On the other hand, Madoka girls almost don't have clearly defined abilities that can be made into maneuvers. Homura from Grief Syndrome is like that >>47423892 guy with dynamite.
I don't really understand how the soul hunter stalker works.
So if I do damage to something I get to 'claim it', which means that every single attack I do does sneak attack damage forever?
>>47425330
Might as well comb through some mecha shows as well if you're going through stuff like nanoha. There are at least a few out there you could poach ideas from.
>trying to build a kineticist
Holy shit, this class is a fucking clusterfuck.
Especially given how it's formatted at pfsrd.
My brain hurts trying to navigate this piece of shit.
>>47425675
Honestly, it's probably a little easier to navigate its features in Occult Adventures over pfsrd. At least, I find it easier.
>>47425675
>>47425682
I gave up on reading it in the PDF as well. I think it's the first time I encountered a class written so badly.
I suggest you read a guide on it, it's a bit easier to understand.
>>47422731
I don't know which ones were you specifically, not all of them!
I'm terrible with names!
>>47425669
>stuff like nanoha
What's wrong with Nanoha? It's recognizable, and have a wiki with spells sorted into categories. I don't think I have creativity to make a discipline from 'she wears a frilly dress' and 'she fights a monster every week'.
>>47423720
Reposting my answer from last thread.
>Friday
GM'd Iron Gods, currently on book 3. A player's new character got introduced, a summoner with an eidolon specifically made to fuck up robots. He was then unprepared for the ghost wizard that gave him con drain on the first round of combat, nearly killing him.
>Saturday
Most notable thing that happened was the GM made us fight a third party monster that was way stronger than the Paizo version, yet was on the same CR.
>Sunday
We fought some spider dude with an opium addiction in Jade Regent, then looted the shit out of the dungeon he's in.
>Like the idea of owning physical copies of things
>Know I will never get an IRL group together, nor would I want to inflict PF on them as an introduction to TTRPGs without hardcore house ruling at best
>Don't want to give Paizo's money, especially for reprints of post-errata books (rip fencing grace, crane wing, sleeves, falcon bracers, jingasa, etc)
>Still want to have something I can hold in my hands for posterity, even though the SRD is easier to reference and use on the fly
Am I retarded? If I buy used, am I okay? Should I look for the earlier printings of things and hope for the best? Should I just abandon this and accept that it's a waste of money?
>>47425785
Give money to DSP instead. Or buy something like paper minis, not books.
>>47423424
(I went to bed in the meantime!)
The reason for this line of questioning is rather simple: Every few threads we see people asking for some kind of discipline, and usually they get shot down, but the requests often seemed fairly varied.
That got me thinking that maybe people weren't asking the right questions or making the right suggestions when it comes to disciplines and I'm finding more and more that this was indeed the case.
And feel free to talk about the ones you designed; I was picking the damn things at random because I wasn't sure!
>>47425827
>Every few threads we see people asking for some kind of discipline, and usually they get shot down, but the requests often seemed fairly varied.
I think the team is just burned on PoW, and they dream of nothing more than getting the second book ready to print, releasing errata for the first book, and getting as far from pow for as long as possible.
>>47425222
apocalyptic lightning storms. roaming bands of slightly crazy artificers.
One lone guy with a crossbow and a dog.
>>47423720
>Weekend session
>Implying we actually met this week
>Implying there'll even be a group at this rate
We're in the fucking death throes of gaming groups, where one missed session every other months turns into every other week, and then multiple weeks. Nobody wants to get together to do makeup sessions, and half the players barely do anything outside of combat.
>>47425634
Pretty much, but your ability to recover maneuvers is pretty shit at least from what I'm seeing.
>>47425827
People keep asking for disciplines but the thing is, we don't need more disciplines. We need more balanced classes.
The 6-level initiators are the best part of PoW, and I want to see more on that level of balance, instead of the fucking gestalt monstrosities like the full initiators.
>>47425770
Nothing wrong with Nanoha, it's just quite literally mecha if they were magical girls. Since they draw along similar themes for abilities it could help if you're finding trouble getting ideas.
>>47425815
>Give money to DSP instead
>implying that wouldn't result in an even less overall useful expenditure of money
I like DSP, but until I can actually find people willing to use their stuff, I'm not willing to part with the little amount of money I can set aside.
>>47425952
>Le 6th level initiators are good meme
Go back to the Paizo boards
>>47426105
Run your own games with DSP.
Once players have fun with it, they'll run it thrmselves.
Unless you have someone who's vehemently against it.
>>47425952
>fucking gestalt monstrosities like the full initiators
>maneuvers are as good as spells
I second >>47426108
>>47424198
Sounds like martial kineticist.
>>47426148
But anon, that requireshaving a group
>>47424866
We are not allowed to play those types of games, anon.
Such is our fate.
>>47426306
Play online.
>>47426290
Welcome to 4chan! The only yoba used here is comfy guy, and he's just that, nothing you are used to.
>>47426334
Well are you offering, then?
>>47423947
PoW isn't balanced. If you think it is you haven't actually examined the system. The majority of disciplines are highly abuseable.
>>47426398
In comparison to WHAT?
Feats can be highly abuseable
Diplomancy is highly abuseable
And certainly no discipline can match up to the high level spellcasting's abuse.
"highly abuseable" requires comparative parameters.
WHAT is highly abusable, compared to WHAT
>>47426398
But PoW is balanced. Most content is balanced, assuming a fairly average approach to it.
Is it just me, or is building characters for this game more fun than actually playing them?
>>47426398
Please provide examples. Preferably on the level of pun-pun or at least iot7fv.
>>47426427
It's just that you don't need to rely on other people to build characters.
>>47426427
You're not alone, when I look for campaigns to join I look for the character creation rules first, before reading about the story or plot or setting.
>>47426334
I'm going to say this, and a lot of /pfg/ won't like it. After joining and running games through /pfg/ and /tg/ I have come to realize that there is a reason a lot of people on here don't have IRL groups.
I've gone back to my in person play groups and no longer try to draw from /tg/.
>>47426429
Black Seraph Hyper Intimidation.
Infinite DimDoor Zealot (quick example of something that can be abused).
>>47426453
>>47426448
>>47426427
The worst part is when you're a rules "size queen" and won't settle for anything less than mid level, high PB play with a good range of allowed classes.
>>47426476
None of this is that bad of an abuse. It can be too much for low-powered games, but what can't?
>>47426500
I much more value players not being insufferable and the campaign's story, encounter design, and general format being enjoyable.
>>47426476
These don't sound like names of maneuvers or class features. Do they by a chance replicate mass dominate monster, summon monster, wish, greater teleport, fabricate, teleportation circle, control weather, earthquake, clone, magic jar, greater scrying?
>>47426500
I'm a little bit this way, although admittedly, I only need level, like, 4+
That's where most classes get class features that actually matter.
>>47426523
I'll agree with the first and third of these.
I don't really care that much about a campaign's premise - some of the most fun campaigns I've been in barely *had* a story.
>>47426500
>won't settle for anything less than mid level
I don't get the appeal of starting past like level 5.
Building high level PF characters is a pain in the ass, most games reach their conclusion by like level 13-15 too for one reason or another, and it's fun watching your character grow from an underdog to an elite.
>>47426476
Antipaladins were already able to setup high intimidate builds. PoW just alignment-unlocks the setup, and gives it more flexibility.
>>47426556
Just because something is busted doesn't mean we need to let more people participate in that bustedness. I'd say Black Seraphs issue is more of the way Intimidate/Skills work though. I really hope Skill check maneuvers get looked at in the errata.
>>47426523
One usually precedes the other, a DM that can handle Path of War and high-grade players is usually one that has a good premise and encounter design in mind.
Still, I'm willing to join a level 3, 20 PB campaign if it's obvious the DM is friendly, the campaign premise is strong, and everything's actually formatted and well-written.
>>47426539
Actually a zealot does replicate mass dominate monster. It does it in a 40ft cone.
>>47426619
See most of the people who I see that are really into PoW are very bad at designing encounters, for some reason particularly for PoW characters.
>>47426629
Where was all this stuff during the play test? It seems like the only thing getting criticized was muh Int SAD on Harbinger which turned out to be the most balanced PoW:E class ever.
>>47426476
Caster with Sleep/Color Spray/Dominate Monster/Hold Monster/Insert crowd control spell here
Any caster with teleportation spells
>>47426690
>Any caster with teleportation spells
Veiled Moon
>>47426629
Please provide the build. I don't see any mention of dominate in powe pdf.
>>47426665
Destruction zealots can turn any manuvere into a cone. This includes the (Albert limited time) dominate monster manuvere.
Honestly destruction zealots are just a problem in general. At every level they out buff a bard while out fighting an inquisitor. It outclasses both of them at their jobs simultaneously.
>>47426690
It's not as if initiators don't do crowd control. You just have to choose the right manuvers, same as you having to choose the right spells.
>>47426554
Same. Similarly, I don't find the appeal of creating a character who's already an established badass in their storyline. I've had a player who made a character for a mid-high level campaign and listed accomplishments in their backstory like having killed a dragon or a ninja clan, and it just read so boring. The only thing that's impressive is what your character manages to do in-game.
>>47426715
Just look at sleeping goddess. I think it's a level 8 strike.
>>47426738
>I've had a player who made a character for a mid-high level campaign and listed accomplishments in their backstory like having killed a dragon or a ninja clan
Great, now a clan of ninja dragons wants him dead.
>>47426738
I mean killing dragons is a relatively normal accomplishment for a level 10 character.
>>47426751
Yeah, found it. It lasts for 1 round and you can't augment it if you use destruction augment. And 40ft cone? Destruction zealot only have 15ft.
Most cliche villain you've seen, /tg/?
Pic unrelated, just an inquisitor for ants.
>>47426738
It's actually fun figuring out one or two "badass" things your mid/high character has accomplished, playing an illustrious hero accomplishing even greater heroics, like the Argonauts or Avengers, has its place.
How else am I supposed to play an Elven King who left his kingdom to stop a world ending threat and, in the process, hopes to be elevated to divinity?
>>47426812
Could have sworn the cone grew larger at higher levels. Though yeah I said it was limited duration. That being said being able to replicate wish or such is not the end all of overpowered. Destruction zealots have problems as mentioned in>>47426717
Hello, I'm new to PF and tabletops in general. Does anyone have an open spot available? I want to learn how to actually play. Only tabletop experience is watching neck beards arguing over terrain placement for 40k.
>>47426832
Evil cultist leader who wants to help summon eldritch gods to destroy the world and elevate him to power, and also has a magical plot forcefield that protects him from harm so he can openly monologue at the PCs.
>>47426915
Go to the game finder thread. This isn't the right place.
>>47426920
>and also has a magical plot forcefield that protects him from harm so he can openly monologue at the PCs
That's when arcane archer shoots barbarian in the behind with an arrow imbued with AMF.
>>47426832
It was some sort of worm-like extra dimensional fungus that gained a malicious intelligence after eating the setting's moon goddess.
Sounds fun, right? Well, we spent most of the campaign treating it as a generic doomsday cult until we fought the infected avatar of the moon goddess on the moon, and my Paladin/Cavalier ends up purifying the deity and becoming the newly ready texted goddess's first champion.
It felt so goddamn hollow; my character's arc ended with him becoming a king (the world was in anarchy following the chaos of the infestation), the herald of an old major goddess seeking to be rediscovered in the world, and was implied to marry a hot Elven Princess... But none of it felt fun, like the session ended and I was just feeling, "eh."
>>47426957
Tried an antimagic field, didn't work. Apparently his forcefield was powered by the steam engine of a locomotive.
>>47426992
>locomotive
At least you know where the rails lead you next.
>>47426992
that means it's technological.
you're in luck,it's even easier to take out with the spells related to that. Yes, even the locomotive can be 'discharged', and it won't be producing much at all in the first place.
Perhaps more interestingly though.
It's a forcefield?
One Words:
Lasers.
Say nothing until after he's let you roll and attack in vain though. But lasers ignore force effects, including tech force fields. Including the tech ones such as hardlight shields. Scatterlight suits work but they're just an AC bonus and you would fucking KNOW if someone had one of those mirrorballs active.
Laser the son of a bitch. It really does work.
If it doesn't, it's literal cheating level fiat, and what you need to do is awaken it as a robotic construct once you pry the field from his cold dead hands.
Because that will mean you literally have something that makes you invulnerable to everything, and NO LONGER limited to needing some kind of generator, it will keep fully functional indefinitely.
>>47426836
>How else am I supposed to play an Elven King who left his kingdom to stop a world ending threat and, in the process, hopes to be elevated to divinity?
Wouldn't it be more fun to actually earn that kingdom. I mean you may as well just write your character up as a god if that's the case.
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=20815138&postcount=592
I didn't believe you guys about Ssalarn. Guess I a) was wrong; b) have one more homebrew to make.
>>47427112
How the hell am I supposed to "earn" a kingdom?
