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What is the difference between Solar Night Caste and Lunar Exalted? I'm not asking about charm, powers and alike. I'm talking about their role in the setting.
From my knowledge Solars' role was to be beacon of hope, rulers and leaders of men, had aura of nobility to rally people around them. Heroes of humanity. And Lunars were their opposites. When someone had to dirty their hands and do things in the shadows you would send Lunars because heroes don't do underhanded deeds. That being said; what is Night Caste role if Lunar exists for the same purpose, or vice-versa?
>>47385972
Your almost right...
Lunars existed to be the Solar's aid. The night caste started off (after the war) being the police force. Operating in secret to find, and eliminate hidden threats to the Government and to creation. The Lunar are known as the Stewarts of creation, their job is to aid the Solar law givers. So where the Solar might be the one who carries out the hit, the lunar was the one who brought to their attention that it needed to be done, and the evidence that it needed to be done.
That is the difference. The lunar is the solar's first confidant, their helper, their aid, their right hand. Not all lunar are sneaky types either. Some are the captains serving the Dawn Generals lending their might, or their wits (in the case of particularly obtuse solars) to them. Lunar aren't just meant to support the solar but they are creation's stewards. While the Solar are it's rulers.
> Solars' role was to be beacon of hope, rulers and leaders of men, had aura of nobility to rally people around them. Heroes of humanity. And Lunars were their opposites.
Nah. Some of the Solars had that, sure - the Zeniths - but others were puissant warriors, brilliant technologists, and negotiators and diplomats par excellence.
The Solar's role is to be human ability turned up to 11. They are the best at what they do - but what they do is limited to the arenas of human capability. They are the ultimate fighters, kings, priests, explorers, hunters, diplomats, courtesans, tinkerers, sorcerers, thieves and assassins. The way other splats compete with that is to have niches that go outside of human ability - elemental effects, shapeshifting, fate dickery, etc.
One of the problems with Lunars is that their role has either been poorly defined. They were supposed to be the Solar's mates: their complement, not their opposite (the opposite of Solars would be Abyssals).
In my head anyway, the complement is defined on an individual basis, rather than as between the splats as a whole. The Solar Fightin' Man would be mated with a Lunar socialite, to fill the gaps in his capabilities. The Solar God-King, all righteousness and purity, would have a Lunar who was willing to get their hands dirty. A Solar Sorcerer would have a Lunar bodyguard, to handle the physical threats that were outside his ambit.
That was their role in the First Age, anyway. Then the Solars went mad, abused their mates (and everyone else), and got locked away for millenia. In their absence, the Lunar's have had to determine their own purpose for being. That's ok though, as part of a Lunar's nature is adaptability. They used to adapt to the nature of their Solar mate, now they adapt to whichever task they set themselves too (in 1E that task was "smash stuff", in 2E it was "protect Creation", and in 3E it's yet to be really nailed down, but looks to be "break the realm")
>What is Exalted?
An epic high-flying role-playing game about reborn god-heroes in a world that turned on them.
Start here: http://theonyxpath.com/category/worlds/exalted/
>That sounds cool, how can I get into it?
Read the 3e core book (link below). For mechanics of the old edition, play this tutorial: http://jyenicolson.net/exalted/. It'll get you familiar with most of the mechanics.
>Gosh that was fun. There were a lot of lesbians though. How do I find a group?
Roll20 and the Game Finder General here on /tg/. With the new edition, though, chances are more games will crop up.
Resources for Third Edition
>Final 3E Core Release
https://mega.nz/#!ctgxyJaC!ygkrLnFsrnBJzIUZY-dJsMfyFrhFQgDsQuuo52fcW0I
http://www.mediafire.com/download/q51qw8skdw1rg15/Exalted_3e_Core.pdf
>Frequently updated Character Sheet with Formulas and Autofill https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1pfjmZKzcUqAX9mB58IAEUIFkZr8rq4CvdRRM4kzwwgU/edit?usp=sharing
>General Homebrew dumping folder: https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0ByD2BL6J89NiQzdCWWFaY0c5Mkk&usp=sharing
>Collection of old 3e Materials, including comics and fiction anthologies https://www.mediafire.com/folder/t2arqtqtyyt28/Exalted_3Leak
>Charm Trees:
>Solar Charms: https://imgur.com/a/q6Vbc
>Martial Arts: https://imgur.com/a/mnQDe
>Evocations: https://imgur.com/a/TYKE4
Resources for 2.5 Edition:
>All books with embedded errata notes, as well as some extras: https://www.mediafire.com/folder/253ulzik1j9s5/Exalted
>Chargen software: http://anathema.github.io/
>Anathema homebrew charm files: https://www.mediafire.com/folder/ddtp2932ad32j/Anathema_Custom_Files
>MA form weapon guide: http://www.brilliantdisaster.net/dif/ExaltedMA.html
>http://www.mediafire.com/view/ua7tanepy2jfkdp/Exalted_2nd_Ed_-_Return_of_the_Scarlet_Empress.pdf
Resources for 1e:
>https://www.mediafire.com/folder/9vp0e9id3by6m/Exalted_1e
>>47331694
Previous thread for reference. Contains arguing about anima, edition war, holden (in b4 holden and morke are liars), tomescu stat me for 3e, how to breathe in space, infernal wish shenanigans, Melkor's power level, touhou comparisons, magical realm catboying.
>>47386208
>>47386228
Thanks for the info. I'm currently reading the core rulebook (1st ed) for my 1st time.
Also when reading the line where it says that Lunars and Solars were mates, complementing each other, my mind expanded on it. Not just mates as in political marriages or genuine marriage born of love but things like "blood brothers", mentors, true friendship, any of those romantic ideas that can help Solar to excel, improve and unleash his full potential.
So how of the mark am I? Or can this work in the setting.
>>47386664
>blood brothers", mentors, true friendship, any of those romantic ideas that can help Solar to excel, improve and unleash his full potential.
That'd be exactly right. Sometimes they're even rivals, hating but respecting each other, pushing themselves towards greatness to get the upper hand.
Though 1st ed is good for fluff, read Ex3, it's the newest one.
>>47386664
>So how of the mark am I? Or can this work in the setting.
You're right on it. One of Exalted 1e devs' primary inspirations for the relationship between Solars and Lunars was Gilgamesh and Enkidu.
>>47386741
By which I mean that whatever happened in staff changes between the editions, this central theme remained the same.
>>47386721
>Though 1st ed is good for fluff, read Ex3, it's the newest one.
That is why I started reading with 1st edition. I guessed it was best place to start because this is where the original idea is found. Before it became diluted or convoluted with additions. I'll probably read all books and take bits and pieces I like.
When it comes to crunch; that is the least important part at this moment for me. it can be easily changed. So if n-Edition works for me I'll use it or change the system entirely. (Heresy, I know)
>>47386821
>When it comes to crunch; that is the least important part at this moment for me. it can be easily changed.
I'm pretty sure that, for most people, fluff is the part that's easy to change while crunch is hard. Focusing on the fluff to begin with is probably a good idea, though, because fluff is where the real draw of Exalted is.
>>47386821
Let me save you some time, the devs will be using Scavenger Sons, Blood & Salt, and Games of Divinity. So read those.
>>47385972
I'd quibble a bit about the roles, but people have to some degree answered that. So let me instead try answering how the two might do the same thing, but in very different ways.
The Night Caste is relatively straightforward: she uses her superb Investigation to uncover that someone is plotting a conspiracy and to get clues as to where to go next, then her Stealth to sneak around looking for plotters, her Awareness to overhear a plotter talking and recognize the voice, then her Larceny to disguise herself as the plotter, and finally her Socialize to maintain her cover when infiltrating the conspiracy in this disguise.
The Lunar, on the other hand, is intuitively attuned to the pulse of his society, and he senses that someone is dancing hesitantly and out of tune at the great festival. Jumping to a conclusion, yet confident its correctness, he surmises that someone here is disloyal and their hearts aren't in it. With his Perception charms he smells for fear or hate, or reads people's Intimacies and social ties off their souls, then with a glance inspects their other capabilities to see who is weak-willed and easily bullied out or replaced. Turning into a pigeon, albatross or other common bird of the region, he hides in plain sight as he follows a plotter back to the plotter's home. There he turns back into human, and without saying a word, dances the plotter into standing still and forgetting this encounter entirely. The Lunar then bites the plotter lightly, simultaneously injecting a soporific venom and stealing the plotter's shape, and replaces his victim and infiltrates the conspiracy that way. Maintaining his cover is easy - he has the plotter's every skill and memory at his immediate mental disposal!
(All Lunar capabilities here are based on their 2e corebook+errata.)
Is exalted the system I want to use to replicate high flying action based games or political based no-combat games?
>>47387257
It accommodates both high-flying action and political intrigue, but is at its best when on is used to lead to or support the other. Its social combat system is at worst inoffensive, which is the best I can really say about any social combat system.
>>47387151
Thanks for the info but that doesn't change my plan. 1st ed has 36 books. 2nd ed has 33 books.
As I said I'm currently into fluff. And having 60+ books is more than enough for my current needs. By the time I finish those and they finally release 3rd edition ones I'll read those as well. And if 3rd edition fluff is better then I'll jump that ship in a heartbeat but I don't plan to wait for years for devs to rewrite things they already written and when I have tons of material. Even if it is bad material. If I like something I'll use it. If I don't like it I'll change it or won't use it.
>>47387206
that is actually pretty informational. Thanks
Unrelated to fluff but question for crunch. As game progresses and players come into higher level power does combat become a process where everyone one-shots each other where everyone implodes or explodes from damage taken?
>>47387406
I assume you're talking about the 3E social influence system here, as the 2E version was kind of crap. 3E's social rules are solid in my experience, though.
>>47387458
I am. 2E didn't accommodate anything.
>>47387151
>Scavenger Sons, Blood & Salt, and Games of Divinity.
Doon't forget Manacle & Coin.
Tell me about Szoreny, /tg/
>>47377986
>Yeah, they had to drop that when tumblr got offended that a paraplegic can't be a hero of old slaying the creators of the world.
Or maybe because playing a blind swordsman or a hook-handed pirate or a crippled sorcerer is really badass and cool and that fluff undermined it.
>>47387752
No, I'm pretty sure that only tumblrites like things the anon in question dislikes.
So, if you were a Sidereal tasked with fucking up a Circle of Solars before they get to be a problem, how'd you go about it? Let's assume there's only 1 of each Caste and they've each got a reasonable amount of charms for their Caste abilities along with each of them being combat-capable and around Essence 1-2.You yourself are Essence 3-4, probably know a handful of Sidereal Martial Arts charms, and have got back up in the form of Wyld Huntsmen; you've got a handful of experienced Dragon-bloods as well as a good Size 3-4 group of mortals assisting.
>>47387849
My first question is "what's the acceptable collateral damage?" In terms of people, environment, fate disruption, etc.
Supposing reasonable levels of that, my plans will likely involve a lot of BIG-ASS TRAPS. Solars riding across a ford? THE FORD IS NOW A TIDAL WAVE. Solars riding near a cliff? THE CLIFF IS NOW AN AVALANCHE. Solars visiting the temple people put up in their honor? THE TEMPLE EXPLODES. WHILE FALLING INTO A PIT. Use things the Solars can't stab.
>>47387849
Turn them against each other, sow distrust and suspicion, use Sorcerous Workings to create powerful enemies, separate one from the group and exploit weaknesses, so on and so forth.
>>47387849
I'd ask why this issue was only being brought to my attention now. If a perfect Circle of Solars has been allowed to meet, become allies and advance to Essence 2 together, I'd say they've already become a problem.
>>47387849
Buy, beg, borrow, steal or Work some way to get Cirrus Skiff to carry more people; or find some similar replacement spell, Celestial if you need.
Find out the Solars' itinerary. At some point where they are traveling overland and do not have convenient mountains to hide under nearby, have a party sorcerer cast Cirrus Skiff. (Can be a DB sorcerer, can be me posing as mortal sorcerer, since this role doesn't require much in the way of dicepool or flash.) Stick the Wyld Hunt aboard the Cirrus Skiff (this is why step 1 is necessary, CS normally only carries 2 people), have their archers rain feathered death down on the Solars, have the guy with the highest Parry defend other on the archer(s).
This is the core strategy that will hopefully neuter whatever Solars aren't Archery specialists right off the bat. Various refinements include:
Set some of the mortals to attempting to sabotage or steal the Solars' bows that morning
Anything that helps the parryman parry and defend other better
Terrestrial Ability Reinforcement to make entire wyld hunt great archers
Do this near obvious cover that the Solars can break for, set up an ambush/trap there
Summon demon archers if your wyld hunt is shit at archery
Summon demon parry meatshields to cover your archers (flying demons can in both cases relieve the stress on Cirrus Skiff)
Hell, just take a month beforehand to summon a legion of demons to set on the solars
>>47387849
>Ess 3 or 4
>only a "handful" of MA charms
Kill myself because I doubt I'm doing Sidereal properly
Obviously divide the group, sow distrust, and try to kill them one by one
But really, do all I can to not carry out that task, because Solars are the only genuine hope left for Creation. The Gold faction is right.
>>47386664
>Not just mates as in political marriages or genuine marriage born of love but things like "blood brothers", mentors, true friendship, any of those romantic ideas that can help Solar to excel, improve and unleash his full potential.
This can work. And sometimes that mentoring style gets a little weird, as one might expect from a master shapeshifter. For example showing up without warning in some weird monstrous form (marilith, drider, centaur, etc) and picking a fight to first blood. "Just checking to see if you're still paying attention." After all, any Solar worth their salt should be prepared to deal with monster attacks out of nowhere, right? >:-D
Need some advices on reskinning vanilla Exalted 3e setting to "Mighty Wasteland Badasses Who Have A Lot Of Dakka And Fastest Red Cars To Fightin With Old Robots, Nuclear Horrors And More Badassed Badasses"
Where to start? And what hardest thing to reskin will be?
Animas and charms planned to use as.
>>47388356
Decent strategy. Works for the Tarrasque and such. Anti-climactic dick move, of course, which may be why there is no spell in the core book that allows you to do this.
Assuming you could do that, "if" one or more of the Solars is a sorcerer and hits your Skiff or Skiff-substitute with a Distortion then they're going to be able to casually walk away from you if you use a mortal sorcerer. Having to keep up with them with Wits + Occult -3 makes the dice pool for the sorcerer important.
>>47387677
Manacle and Coin is fantastic for getting an idea for how economies work in Creation.
If you want some knowledge straight from the writers' mouths go to http://exalted.xi.co.nz/wiki/WriterQuotes and read the "Thus Spake Zaragrabowski" and "Thus Spake Zaraborgstrom" sections. It's full of setting information direct from the people who made the original game and the best parts of it too
Warning for those who started with 2e. it may not agree with your horrible, warped view of the setting.
>>47389553
1e babies can never stop their edition wars, can they?
>>47387730
To Szoreny, the concept of enemy and friend are not opposite but rather identical. As such, he approves of amiability towards people who are trying to kill you and vice versa.
>>47389089
Well, you'll need to tear out ride and replace it with drive, and maybe archery with guns.
Shards of the Exalted Dream reskinned 2E Exalted for sci-fi settings or modern technology settings, but nothing like it exists for 3E yet.
>>47389790
I'll stop when the writers make a better edition.
>>47389790
Go back to SV
>>47386228
its not even really mates, they could just as easily be the solar's wildman friend. like solar gilgamesh and lunar enkidu
>>47387849
Exploit the Solars' intrinsic tendency towards extremes of temperament and megalomania (read: their Great Curse) to divide the party, mostly by fucking with Fate and Destiny and so on.
Then, when they're pissed and divided, KILL THE TWILIGHT FIRST
>>47386340
>>Chargen software: http://anathema.github.io/
is this better than ed's exalted toolkit?
>>47387442
>Unrelated to fluff but question for crunch. As game progresses and players come into higher level power does combat become a process where everyone one-shots each other where everyone implodes or explodes from damage taken?
in 2nd ed definitely yes. its dice hell to roll(use a roller program or you'll literally be throwing 50 dice) and you die without perfect parry. 2.5 tried to fix it, 3 is *supposed* to be better but I haven't had the chance to play and see how much of the dice bloat was fixed and how much is the fanbase reacting to new car smell ;)
>>47387257
social combat is extra dice hell ;)
>>47391526
>social combat is extra dice hell ;)
Why would you willingly play 2e?
>>47387730
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?138409-Exalted-Szoreny-the-Silver-Forest
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Szoreny_Infernal_Charms
http://rathess.xi.co.nz/exalted/index.php/Szoreny_(Riklurt)
http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/exalted/60002-brainstorming-isidoros-and-szoreny-charmsets/page2
Does any one have any good stories involving Sidereal Astrology, or just Sidereals in general?
>>47388356
didn't celestial circle have the next level cloud? so you've got access but can't cast it without problems, and most things that expanded on the terrestrial cloud kinda step on that tier's toes...depends on the st i guess
>>47391536
3 /only/ has solars ;)
>>47386626
We never really resolved the whole "not dying in space" thing, but I think the closest answer would be a load of Resistance and Stamina because that's how environmental stuff is resisted. It would be something like three or four rolls just to be out in space for a minute (depending on location, of course). Theoretically, if a Solar was willing to blow lots and lots of motes on the Resistance Excellency, he could be outside in space for upwards of an hour, but nothing beyond that.
>>47391702
So? Play a homebrew of whatever splat you like or some shit. Fuck 2e.
>>47391702
...at least do 2.5 dude
>>47391702
I don't even see how that's an argument. It's like refusing to move into a house because all of your stuff is in the sewer.
>>47391402
Basically this. Just make the Dawn Caste keep limit breaking near his party until they either all die trying to put him down or limit break themselves. A party full of Limit Broken Solars will probably end up self-destructing in a spectacular and horrible way.
I don't understand White Reaper's Flickering Corona Barrier. How can you use it after the opponent's attack if it reduces the dice in their attack roll?
>>47385972
>What is the difference between Solar Night Caste and Lunar Exalted? I'm not asking about charm, powers and alike. I'm talking about their role in the setting.
Nothing, really. It's one of the flaws of the setting that's basically impossible to address because the only role people consistently associate with Nights is that of assassin, even though they're really supposed to me more like Varys the Spider.
With that said, the failure is more with the imagination of the storytellers and players than it is with the writing itself, which does go to lengths to try to establish the Nights are more than simply assassins, but they're fighting an uphill battle against the rule of cool there.
In all ways that matter, Lunars are the most perfect assassin conceivable. An assassin who can simply become the target and betray their associates before getting killed is far, far more valuable than someone who murders people and then has to either a) cover it up or b) doesn't bother to cover it up.
>>47391893
>if it reduces the dice in their attack roll?
It... doesn't. Defense is a difficulty, not a penalty.
>>47391924
>tfw playing a Night Caste thief who actively rejects assassin work or even killing on the job, much like Garrett from the Thief series
>>47391924
Well, 3e's did a bit better in changing that. Larceny and Socialize are pretty good for Nights that don't wanna just kill everybody, as Larceny lets you become a criminal mastermind and Socialize turns you into the deepest cover spy.
>>47391893
The part that removes the battlegroup's (size) bonus to the attack wouldn't apply if you activated it after the roll.
The mastery bonus is strong because you can wait and see what your opponent rolls on his attack, then use that charm and add parry as needed.
>>47391924
If you're going with that angle, then Lunars are no more assassins then Night caste are.
>>47391924
> An assassin who can simply become the target and betray their associates before getting killed
A Solar with appropriate investment (Flawlessly impenetrable disguise, the performance charm to change your voice) is better at doing that than a Lunar.
The difference is a Solar needs to invest, a Lunar just can
>>47392019
>A Solar with appropriate investment (Flawlessly impenetrable disguise, the performance charm to change your voice) is better at doing that than a Lunar.
Please stop, you enormous faggot.
Or I will be forced to point out you're wrong because Fate.
>>47387849
realistically point them at bigger threats. Try and vear them into that once city which acts as the base for a huge yozi cult, try and get them tangled up in some deathlords plot. Basically try and set up a win win scenario for myself
So, I statted up Fuujin from World Trigger as a Reaper Daiklave; any comments?https://docs.google.com/document/d/11k6Z_iS9qv2bXxYavlfOLDKWVz1TyJnnSfl9C3xg3zY/edit?usp=sharing
>>47392060
What the fuck?
>>47392060
What?
>>47392060
>Or I will be forced to point out you're wrong because Fate.
I can't wait.
>>47391952
Which is completely do-able and to be encouraged.
>>47391956
It did no better and no worse, really, although it did expend more effort beating STs and players over the head with examples of not being an assassin. Which, 700 pages, I guess?
>>47391993
Don't be stupid.
>>47392100
The first evocation is insanely powerful. I mean, it's expensive but being able to casually throw out 6 onslaught like that murders anything without a penalty negator.
You can also follow it with a Ferocious Jab enhanced Brawl attack for +6 decisive damage at Essence 1. Well worth 10 motes.
>>47391924
None of the Lunar castes are about assassination. You have your trickster/social types (Changing Moons), Warriors (Full Moon), and sorcerers (Full Moon).
Nights seem to have more of an assassin focus, whereas any Lunar is just plain good at it because shapeshifting is basically perfect for assassins
>>47392230
Re-iterating: don't be stupid.
You countered your own argument there without even presenting a good one for Nights as assassins.
>>47392205
At Essence 5, but that's still really good. Should I change it to an instantaneous defense penalty?
>>47392248
No, you're being retarded. You claim that the Night Caste, as a whole, embodies more than assassination - I agree with this. Assassin is still right in the Night Caste portfolio.
You go to lengths to distance Nights from being assassins based on setting material, then say that Lunars are the perfect assassins even though the setting material goes a long way to making them more than simple assassins!
>>47392248
Here is what the corebook says about the Night Caste:
The Solars of the Night Caste are the hidden hands of the Unconquered Sun—they fight the enemies of righteousness on their foes’ terms, using the arts of spycraft and assassination to bring their quarry low.
Huh, that sounds like Nights as assassins is part of their theme.
A Night Caste with appropriate investment is a better assassin than a Lunar, because after a certain point Solar infiltration and disguise charms are just better than the raw versatility of shapeshifting for the purpose of assassination.
The point isn't to denigrate Lunars, a Solar assassin with a ton of social/stealth/larceny investment isn't as versatile as a shapeshifter who can become amazing at athletics, combat, or whatever else by just taking a new form.
>>47392310
>>47392346
When you argue so hard you scream right past correct and on to wrong.
Good work.
>>47392398
As a followup, I would say that in 95% of situations they are exactly equal because you almost never need 10 charms to carry out an assassination
>>47392411
"You're wrong" isn't a valid argument after kindergarten, you actually have to prove your point mate. Try again.
>>47392411
Nice job not even presenting an argument you brain dead Lunar fanboy.
Lunar superfans are seriously the worst.
>>47392449
>>47392450
You intensely autistic cunts need to learn to read.
>It's one of the flaws of the setting that's basically impossible to address because the only role people consistently associate with Nights is that of assassin
You are the problem.
>>47392488
I just said the Night caste is about more than assassination you moron.
>address because the only role people consistently associate with Nights is that of assassin
How is it a setting flaw? Thats a flaw on the part of the playerbase. That said, they are correct that assassin is a totally valid Night role.
Then you said:
>You countered your own argument there without even presenting a good one for Nights as assassins.
What the fuck is this? There is a ton of setting material presenting Nights as assassins.
Frankly, the core argument is about that Nights and Lunars are different, and this whole thing is an insanely stupid digression that you started.
I'm new to the Exalted setting and system, but have played WoD games so I understand the basics of the system of dots and such. Even so, I have a question;
I noticed a Merit called Command, where depending on your points invested equals command over a group (up to and including an army apparently), but I was wondering, should I invest in other abilities, social ones, to support this merit? Or can I just take points in Command and still use it effectivly? I didn't plan on making a social character to begin with.
>>47385972
The difference is that the Night will be absolutely terrific at the whole 'stealth/disguise/subterfuge/being-a-sneaky-git-general' thing, while Lunars will suck shit at it.
>>47392019
That voice imitating charm is only scene long, so the solar would need to basically constantly be spending essence to mimic someone.
>>47392726
You CAN get by with just Command, but it doesn't really unlock its full potential unless you invest in War, a little bit of Presence/Performance for controlling their morale and actions during downtime (they are human beings after all).
Same way an Ally is an Ally, but a suave smooth-talker will be able to get his allies to do more than someone who's more average: they're both your friends, but one friend is just more convincing than the other.
>>47392793
War is an ability for directing units in battle I suppose?
>>47392769
Or you could pass some kind of difficulty check with modifiers for how well you know X character's voice using performance. Thats just an example - there are a lot of tools for infiltration/assassination
>>47392821
Correct.
>>47392842
Alright cool, thanks for the info.
>>47392748
They won't suck shit at it. In the vast majority of scenarios they'll be just as good as a Night because when do you really need that extra non-charm success or whatever the fuck.
The greater mechanical strength (not really that much greater) of the solar charms relative to shapeshifting + lunar charms is irrelevant because you almost never need it.
>>47391974
So you completely lose one of its best uses because of RAW.
>>47393336
If you're fighting a BG, why wouldn't you use it immediately? Negating 5 attack dice for 2m is insanely strong.
Plus the only easy way to gain Halos is to fight BGs, so they'll be flowing like water. Spend the shit out of them
>>47393336
There's no other way to write that charm, so I'm not sure why you're complaining about RAW. Declaring extra defenses after an attack roll is still massively advantageous. Think how disappointed you'd be if you dropped three halos on a parry when you didn't actually need to, or when it didn't make a difference?
Well, I've just hatched a plot to turn a raksha we've just recruited to our side into an Ishvara so it can fight a Primordial with us. I think I've hit peak Twilight Caste here.
>>47392070
This. Either the threat kills them, thus ending the solar problem, or they kill the threat, thus ending that problem. And if you're lucky the surviving side will be weak enough you can now bring it down yourself. Or find another threat to point it at.
>>47393813
Let me tell you what MY Twilight did. Our 2.5 (can it) campaign has had us supporting a rebellion in the Lap. After driving off the occupying forces, we started fortifying and waiting for the invasion fleet to arrive with the Realm's reinforcements. My ST later confided that he was planning a big awesome siege event to cap out the story, but it was at that time that my Twilight received one of his past incarnation's spellbooks.
As I was digging my way through the sorcery book, I noticed a spell called The Parting of the Seas, which caught my imagination. Some of you might recall me asking here about that spell. Well, I pitched my idea to the circle, and they loved it. We would fly on Agates in a miles-deep trench in the ocean, hidden by a few Eristrufas, illusionist mist-demons. We sailed right up to the fleet unchallenged, and then, when the trench passed through a ship, we flew under it in our demon wasps so the Zenith could punch their rudders off. We crippled/sank five ships that way before they figured out what we were doing.
I was afraid that they would dispell The Parting of the Seas and we'd drown, but what actually happened was that the Dynasts' bound elementals, the air spirit bears from the corebook, blew on the mist and dispersed it enough to reveal us. We also got a clear look at them - the Dynasts are RIDING the bears. So rather than a drawn-out siege, we're going to have a midair battle with some Dynasts, us on demon-waspback, them on elemental-bearback, after which we'll drop firedust bombs on a few more of their ships and escape.
>>47395021
>Let me tell you what MY Twilight did. Our 2.5 (can it) campaign has had us supporting a rebellion in the Lap.
Strangely enough, the players in my 3E campaign just caused basically the complete extinction of life in the Lap - the South is also getting very hungry.
>>47387442
It's totally fine to read the old editions for fluff, but you'll have a much better time if you combine those with 3rd edition's crunch, the games run really smoothly now, and it's not that hard to mix the fluff.
which book would i look in for 2ed taumaturgy?
>>47395453
old mcdonalds codex.
>>47392060
Please, do go on, I'm interested in wtf you're talking about.
>>47395641
He will authoritatively quote some houserule at you that his group made to make Lunars > Solars
Does a gambit (which is explicitly a decisive attack) meet the requirement to keeping Aegis of Invincible Might going? If so, that seems a pretty trivial way of keeping it up (withering throws/savages should be able to at least recoup the initiative cost of grappling), and I can't see any RAW reason why it wouldn't.
>>47396069
Is it trivial? I don't think so. If your plan is withering every other turn you need to spend 8m
>>47396069
People treat AoIM as if you can just turn it on whenever, but it only activates if you block a decisive attack with Adamant Skin Tech and you are not crashed.
wrath of the five elements
how much of the target is actually left as an elemental?
>>47396207
With a grapple, you can launch a decisive and a withering on the same turn. The attempt to initiate the grapple is a decisive (that deals no damage, just gets them in the hold), and when you establish a grapple, you can immediately savage/throw the target, which can be either withering or decisive - so no, you wouldn't need to spend 8m, because you've performed a decisive attack that round.
>>47396249
My question was about sustaining it, not initiating it - although that's pretty easy too. Just take War Lion Stance or Fluttering Cry of Warning, and you can intercept a decisive attack made at any of your buddies. Unless the opposition never launches a decisive attack (in which case, congratulations, you've won) all you need to worry about is being crashed, and if you have all the pre-reqs for AoIM, that's not a big worry either.
>>47395464
is that a fan name for something? or just a book i haven't been able to find
>>47396472
oadenol's codex.
>>47396472
oooh. nevermind, I got it, thanks
>>47393813
No, wait, I just gave said raksha a flaming ash snake god I made myself as a mount for him to use to go root out banditry and crime in the region. NOW I've hit peak Twilight Caste.
what would you say is the best martial art for defend other?
>>47396550
Crane Style.
>>47393813
not until you've created something from scratch
>>47396550
Crane Style. There is no debate.
>>47396563
thanks :)
>>47396569
Already made an elemental out of nothing.
>>47396360
>With a grapple, you can launch a decisive and a withering on the same turn. The attempt to initiate the grapple is a decisive
Oh. Thats fine, it can't even be sustained unless you grapple, throw, and just grapple/throw every round.
Which is actually not trivial to do, because you have no accuracy bonus to decisive attacks - if you're in a position where you can land your grapples consistently youve probably already won anyway
Hey /tg/. I could use help balancing the templating and the costs of the evocations on this artifact:
http://pastebin.com/n3quE8cp
The goal is to create an artifact that encourages the player to roleplay as a guardian angel, devoting themselves to protect their ward. The Solar dedicates a good portion of her essence pool towards her charge, giving them some very nice buffs. In exchange, she receives a small bonus to her defenses, to further encourage her to protect her ward.
I want to encourage the Solar and her Soulbond, much as possible, to roleplay as a couple, and every evocation the pendant has is geared towards encouraging this. The theme is the "Power of Love" and I'm trying my best to express it through the mechanics, rewards, and flavor of the pendant.Yes. The quotes are intentionally like wedding vows. This pendant is just shy of being a Solar's wedding ring.
>>47396661
Well, you don't need to *succeed* in your grapple to keep AoIM up, just launch it. How often you need to succeed depends on how effective your throws are (they need to at least recoup the cost of all your failed grapples). And ISE + Devil Strangling Attitude gives scenelong accuracy bonuses to grapples. Vicious Lunge is a cheap booster too.
>>47396831
ISE is the only broken charm in the game
>>47396831
Anyway to answer your original question, yeah a gambit meets the requirements to keep Aegis going. And I don't think this is a problem, desu
>>47396989
ISE?
>>47397049
Increasing Strength Exercise.
>>47397049
Increasing Strength Exercise. For the cost of a simple action and a reasonable amount of essence/initiative, you get a scenelong boost to all withering attacks, all decisive attacks, more accuracy for grapples on solar brawl, great synergy with Armor Eating Strike, makes Tiger Style insane, etc
Now all that is honestly -ok- for what it costs, but what pushes it into broken territory is its interaction with the flurry charms.
>>47397136
>Now all that is honestly -ok- for what it costs, but what pushes it into broken territory is its interaction with the flurry charms.
I think that means it's the flurry charms that are broken (again, same as every edition) rather than ISE.
>>47397166
No, if the flurry charms are fine on their own and not broken, then the problem is ISE, not them.
>>47397166
It's really not.
Without ISE, Iron Whirlwind Attack is pretty reasonable; you're talking 5 attacks for 5 init each if you had 20 to start with. Dangerous, but not unstoppable, especially since you have to get your init up that high the normal way.
With ISE, IWA explodes geometrically. At Essence 3, it becomes 8 attacks of 4 init each whether yo have any init or not, bypassing the whole withering/decisive economy.
Brawl's flurry grows even faster as Strength gets pumped up.
>>47397166
Without ISE, you actually lose damage by flurrying rather than making a single strike, because against reasonable opposition you're going to miss several attacks. Its a trade-off - you're sacrificing potential damage for a smaller amount of almost guaranteed damage.
>>47396573
would it cause debate if I restricted the question to terrestrial?
>>47397237
5 init each, you're missing the initiative bonus IFoD gives you.
>>47397306
No, its still the best option for DBs
>>47397200
Contrariwise, if ISE is fine on its own and not broken, then the problem is them, not ISE.
>>47397237
The problem is then the flurries scaling. If they just capped the extra attacks at 5, you wouldn't have this problem. If they scaled off Appearance instead of Brawl, would that make Thousand Courtesan Ways and Awakened Carnal Demiurge problematic?
Flurries suck. They take far too long to resolve, and extra attacks are generally the most powerful form of force-multiplier. There's a reason the promise to remove them from 3E was generally considered a good thing.
>>47397346
> If they just capped the extra attacks at 5, you wouldn't have this problem.
That is how I do it my game.
>>47397346
>Flurries suck. They take far too long to resolve, and extra attacks are generally the most powerful form of force-multiplier. There's a reason the promise to remove them from 3E was generally considered a good thing.
The very few magical flurries we have are vastly less powerful than previous editions due to the initiative system.
I would say this is objectively true because you usually have better choices during combat than launching a magical flurry.
There are ton of really powerful decisive charms like Heaven Sword Flash (hits EVERYONE at close range), Arrow Storm, Rain of Feathered Death, Crimson Razor Wind, etc, that are not flurries. You're exaggerating
>>47396774
>http://pastebin.com/n3quE8cp
* +1 non-charm die doesn't make sense in the context of static defences. +1 to parry and evasion, which does not count as dice provided by a charm would be the right phrasing
* Removing 2 succeses from attacks is mathematically equivalent to increasing your defences by 2. Just do that, instead of having multiple different phrases that mean the same thing
* A passive non-charm +3 to defences is absolutely massively game-breaking. The fact that this is a passive attunement benefit only adds salt in the wound. It's over 600% more powerful than any canon attunement benefit (+3 defence = +6 dice, Blessed Adorei gives +1 die, and counts towards charms). Needs a nerf.
* Angel's Messenger: Flavoursome, but niche. I'd have this as the passive attunement bonus, instead of the defensive bonuses.
* Angel's Warning: Currently as written, using this charm will permanently lower your mote pools, and you can never, ever get them back. This seems wrong. I don't know what the intention behind "When the Evocation is released, the Solar does not regain her committed motes" was - delete this phrase. Ditto for all future charms with that phrase.
* Angel's Ward: Feels over-costed to me. It's half as efficient as Spirit Strengthens Skin in terms of raw numbers.
* Angel's Sacrifice: Definitely over-costed. For something that needs to be committed
* Angel's Boon: The anima flare seems weird, as it would only happen when the initial connection is established. Instead, change it so that whenever one of the partner's animas would flare, it uses the combined colours/symbology of both.
>>47397514
* Angels Entwined: I have no idea what a cost of 13m + 13m committed is. Does that mean it costs 26 motes to activate, but only commits 13 of them? Seems excessively costly - and redundant anyway, as everyone with a clue would only use it during a time when they're not going to use their motes for anything else, the same as any other indefinite charm. Needs something to stop a cascade effect when both partners have Angel's Sacrifice on.
* Angel's Grace: I'd change its trigger to be when the Soulbound would have their last Health Level filled, the same as similar charms. There should also be a way to restore the artifact through an epic quest, as per Blessed Adorei.
Overall, I'd probably rework the evocations a bit. Instead of having the first two mostly-fluff, I'd give them fluff, and a small mechanical benefit. Make Messenger give a +1 parry when defending the Soulbound. Make Warning give the user +1 initiative whenever they successfully parry an attack targeting the Soulbound. Smoosh Bond and Ward together.
>>47397514
>>47397530
Thank you for the help and advice!
>>47397457
>The very few magical flurries we have
Doesn't matter how many we have, it just means everybody will be using the same ones. There's one flurry per combat ability, and they're all within easy reach for chargen Supernals, and everyone else who cares about combat can get one by mid-game.
>vastly less powerful than previous editions
Irrelevant. I don't care if they're better or worse than they were in 2E, I care if they're balanced across the rest of 3E's system.
>I would say this is objectively true because you usually have better choices during combat than launching a magical flurry.
Yeah, people say lots of things are objective true. That's usually because they don't understand what the word means. If you build for them, the flurries will generally out-perform any other option, and building for them is pretty straightforward.
> There are ton of really powerful decisive charms like Heaven Sword Flash (hits EVERYONE at close range), Arrow Storm, Rain of Feathered Death, Crimson Razor Wind, etc, that are not flurries. You're exaggerating
Sure. And those charms that hit everyone do so with ONE attack roll, meaning they don't slow combat down anywhere near as much. They also can't be focussed on a single target, which means they're good at mowing down lots of lightweight opponents, instead of taking out a real threat in a single hit (the exceptions are Swarm-Culling and Circle of Destruction, which are basically Thrown's flurry-equivalents, and are just as much a pain in the arse to roll out as the other ones).
Crimson Razor Wind is strong, but it's also a bitch to trigger against anyone who counts.
looking at dragon of smoke and flame vs servant of infallible location....
does the lower tier spell do things the higher one can't? or did i misread
>>47385972
>talks about Solars and Lunars
Son, you play mortal or you go home. What's this? You die? Well, time to git gud.
>>47398054
exalted dark souls
>>47398054
>>47398107
A post RotSE would be a good setting for a Dark Souls type campaign.
>>47397346
>If they just capped the extra attacks at 5, you wouldn't have this problem.
Yes you would. You'd still have 25 free decisive damage from no where.
>>47398618
Pretty sure you mean decisive damage dice, not decisive damage.
Even then, that figure's only possible with a whole host of extra charms and assumptions. Invincible Fury of the Dawn pulls an extra 5 decisive *dice* from nowhere, *if* you hit with all your attacks. Fire and Stones and Hungry Tiger *might* pull some extra in, if you're accurate, and your foe has low defences or no onslaught negator. If you include Peony Blossom shenanigans, you can multiply that a bit, but you're still going to get nowhere near 25 decisive *damage*.
Or do you mean Brawl with Five-Fold Fury Onslaught? That can get insane, but again, you're probably not going to get enough dice to roll 25 decisive damage.
In any case, I'm the anon who said flurries inherently suck. Capping them to 5 drops their power level significantly, but they still suck. Watching someone else flurry is like watching someone else craft.
>>47397665
>If you build for them, the flurries will generally out-perform any other option, and building for them is pretty straightforward.
Right, and that single charm that makes flurries out perform other combat options is ISE. If 4+ charms on their own don't create problems within 3e, and a single charm does, then that charm is the problem, not the others
>>47398996
The charm itself is fine when not combined with flurries. Just as the flurries are mostly fine by themselves, it's the interaction of both that breaks both charms.
Can Fair Folk learn Sorcery and/or Martial Arts?
>>47397665
>Sure. And those charms that hit everyone do so with ONE attack roll, meaning they don't slow combat down anywhere near as much.
This is true.
>They also can't be focussed on a single target
Rain of Feathered Death and Solar Spike are immensely strong against single targets - hell, lots of decisive charms are: Fatal Stroke Flash, Throat-Slitting Shadow Atemi.
I will agree that flurries are somewhat more versatile in that they can be single target or multi-target, but you lose damage unless you want to spend a ton of motes on excellencies.
>Swarm-Culling and Circle of Destruction, which are basically Thrown's flurry-equivalents, and are just as much a pain in the arse to roll out as the other ones).
Swarm-Culling can be used once, and cannot be focused on a single target - its good, but not overwhelming. Circle of Destruction I agree is very strong.
I will agree that flurries could be designed better, and they slow down combat, but I don't feel as though its significant enough to care about beyond capping the number of attacks ISE gives the brawl and melee flurries
>>47399066
Its so broadly useful and so strong on its own that I'm not sure it is fine.
>>47399178
Flurries are much more easily resolved with a dice roller. Brawl and Melee don't really have any complicated dice tricks so just roll out 10 attacks with your dice pool, compare it each time.
Roll out the damage down the line, adjusting hit/miss if Wound Penalty lowers their defense.
>>47398618
>>47398931
A lot of your flurry attacks won't even hit. This is anecdotal but against competent opposition, like DBs, you hit maybe 3/5 or 2/5 of your attacks unless you've already built up a big advantage over them.
High potential damage; in practice, not overwhelming
>>47399242
To continue, the real value of flurries isn't usually to drop someone from full to dead - there are better charms for that - its to come out ahead on the mote economy because the other guy is spending 2-6 motes defending each attack
So I really like exalted and the concepts and parts of the setting, but so much of it seems to be an overcomplicated clusterfuck I cannot wrap my head around
The best I was ever able ot do was build a few MA monster solars in 2.5e
Whenever any of you tell stories its about jesus wtf complicated plans and spells and shit
>>47398107
>>47398163
Dark souls basically IS a post apocalyptic exalted where you are a heroic mortal that cannot die
>>47399387
Its not as bad as it sounds.
>>47389316
>Anti-climactic dick move, of course
A little late to the conversation, but surely anti-climactic dick moves are exactly what you want to be doing all day if you're in the unfortunate position of having to fight Solars without being a pack of Solars yourself?
> which may be why there is no spell in the core book that allows you to do this. Assuming you could do that, "if" one or more of the Solars is a sorcerer and hits your Skiff or Skiff-substitute with a Distortion...
Which is why I'd suggest summoning a Second Circle Demon to serve as aerial combat platform instead. That's a core spell. It comes with its own risks, of course, but I think they're preferable to being distorted. With some kind of armor buff, healing, or focus fire against the Solar Archer you can probably knock him out before he knocks your demon carrier out. The Wyld Hunt might ask some questions about where you got a 2CD, but that's 1) if they know it's a 2CD rather than just "a demon" like sorcerers summon all the time, 2) if they're sorcerously educated enough to know that binding a 2CD requires forbidden lore rather than just being hard, 3) if they're going to raise the issue now that you have provided a great combat platform, 4) if you haven't come up with Resplendent Sidereal Cover Story properly. Seems manageable.
Do any of you guys find difficulty fulfilling your caste's role for solar xp?
Do you think some castes have harder requirements or ones that are too restrictive to archetype?
>>47403524
No, I don't have any difficulty fulfilling my caste's role for Solar XP, because my group plays BP only.
There's nothing wrong with ISE. The system just needs to state that attribute bonuses added by charms do not count for other the purposes of calculating charm effects which I'm pretty sure is the intent.
If it isn't, it's a sensible house rule.
Building up another character - stepping back and letting them have the spotlight - grants you Solar xp. If when you find a strange sculpture and you ask the Twilight what it is, or you tell your foes that your Dawn can't be beaten then you get Solar xp.
Random anon here,
Every so often me any my roleplaying group will get on the subject of an Exalted/WoD crossover, what with how they use the same system and all. Of course even our little group of dragonblooded would be hilariously overpowered in WoD, but that's just part of what would make it fun. Has anyone tried this out?
>>47403618
Ceding the spotlight requires you to *have* the spotlight, and standing aside to let someone else take it. Complimenting the Dawn isn't enough.
But yeah, we found that our sessions weren't really long enough to have a regular-ish fight scenes so the Dawn could get his SXP - so we houseruled it to only having to meet the criteria once per Story (our stories are fairly short - around 4 - 5 sessions).
>>47403895
http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/exalted/774884-solar-xp-how-much-are-you-getting/page2
>>47403948
If I accepted things Holden said on forums as canon, I'd have to rip Iron Whirlwind Technique out of my books.
>>47404047
Why?
>>47403894
The original backstory for Hunter: The Reckoning was supposed to be related to Exalted, but that got quietly dropped very quickly. I don't know if there's anything else related to ExWoD about.
>>47404047
Do people just say retarded shit on here just to get a reaction?
Why are people afraid of shadowlands?
A shadowland is in Creation during the day, and in the Underworld at night, right? That means that during the night, an idiot could wander into the Underworld by mistake, but ghosts can't leave the boundaries to enter Creation. By the same token, the only time they can use a shadowland to cross from the Underworld to Creation is during the day, when the cruel like of the sun will fuck them straight back to death.
So, what's the problem? As long as you set up even a basic fence or sign to keep children and simpletons from wandering into the Underworld by mistake, ghosts can't leave its boundaries at night, and are destroyed if they try it during the day.
I feel like someone got the directionality of shadowlands during the day/night backwards or something.
I mean, obviously there's an issue if a deathknight is invading during the day using one, or whatever, but that's not exactly a common occurrence, especially in the 1500 years between the fall of the First Age and the creation of the chosen of Oblivion.
>>47396483
I've found some in scroll of the monk, and there were a few examples in the corebook(oldmcdonald points those out though)
were there others anywhere else that you remember?
>>47404277
Because Holden has also said on forums that Iron Whirlwind Technique wouldn't exist in 3E.
>>47404386
Ask a retarded question, get a retarded answer. Forum posts don't trump the core rules, even if said post was written by a dev.
>>47404466
The problem isn't ghosts or Abyssals, it's zombies, necromancers, bonsiders, and anything corporeal that can stay in Creation materialized. Also, the Underworld is a straight up scary place, and straight up isn't supposed to exist.
>>47404557
I was under the impression that all of those corporeal undead are more or less exclusively actively created by Abyssals or sufficiently powerful ghosts, and thus are astoundingly rare.
Your typical 'zombie' is actually going to be a Hungry Ghost who can't leave the shadowland at night, and can't remain in Creation during the day.
And regardless, that still means that undead coming to attack out of a shadowland only happens during the day, but you're safe from them pushing out of their haunted lands at night, which sounds backwards.
>>47404466
Because most people are mortals, and don't know shit about the settings metaphysics, so aren't 100% about the whole "they can't get out thing".
A place in which ghosts will devour you if you enter at night is pretty scary, especially for Joe Mortal with his 1 intelligence and 0 occult.
>>47404554
It doesn't trump the core rules, it clarifies them. It doesn't actually change the rules in any way.
You're also being massively disingenuous, comparing something Holden said before the book was released to a rules clarification someone asked for.
>>47404554
>Because Holden has also said on forums that Iron Whirlwind Technique wouldn't exist in 3E.
By what logic is something a dev said before the book was written in any way comparable to something a dev says to clarify what he's written after he has already written it? There's nothing particularly wrong with people changing their mind.
>>47404635
The devs changing their minds is the same as them lying, that's a well known fact.
>>47404646
>changing their minds is the same as them lying
Ah, so they're held to the same rules as politicians, then.
>>47404635
At best, they used unclear, ambiguous language that deceives a typical reader as to the intent. At worst, they're just retconning their shitty design after the fact. In either case, I don't expect or particularly want my players to have to go find every spread out little tidbit the devs dole out to clarify their illegible book.
>>47404668
Yeah, it's much better to deliberately misinterpret rules to justify houseruling.
>>47404613
>>47404635
Because what's in the book has been reviewed by other devs, editors, been through approval processes and such. Holden's post on a forum could have just been him getting drunk one night and posting shit - who knows?
If there's official changes to the core book, they'll go through the same process and be published as errata. Until then, Holden's forum posts might have more weight than other randoms, but they're not gospel.
Here's the text of the rule in question:
"Intentionally ceding the ‘spotlight’ of the scene’s focus to another player’s character in such a way that it makes that character shine in the role of their Caste, or directly supporting them in a cool and dramatic expression of their
Caste’s function."
Complimenting the Dawn after he's just spitted something doesn't meet those criteria. You're not shifting the focus of the scene to the Dawn - he just killed a fearsome beast, he already has the spotlight. Saying something nice after the fact isn't "supporting them in a cool or dramatic way", either. Holden's post isn't a clarification of that rule, it's a modification to it - and a pretty shit one.
I mean, SXP are a bit shit already - they seem to be one of the first things people houserule out. If all that's required to fulfil them is a bit of mutual backslapping, you might as well just award them automatically, and skip the pro-forma crap that just wastes the tables time on nonsense.
>>47404680
>deliberately
No. I am reading the book that is in front of me.
>Intentionally ceding the ‘spotlight’ of the scene’s focus to another player’s character in such a way that it makes that character shine in the role of their Caste, or directly supporting them in a cool and dramatic expression of their Caste’s function.
A reasonable person, reading this, would not think it meant "if the Dawn kills somebody, and you say, whoa, that kill was so badass I didn't even get blood spray because the Dawn thoughtfully did not let the blood spray on me." If that is the intent, then it is written in an extremely unclear manner. If it is not the intent, then Holden is lying.
>>47404739
You clearly are supporting them in a cool or dramatic way. I don't know how you can read it so poorly as to not see that. I suspect that you're being deliberately obtuse to support your houseruling either because of your ego or some issue with the developers.
>>47404789
You do realise that it doesn't mention your character at all? That might be the source of your confusion.
>>47404739
i agree with annon(that one linked, not you other assholes excepting the times where you are the same asshole as indicated;)
>>47404797
Your bar for "cool and dramatic" is entirely too low.
>>47404797
If it's so clear on a plain reading of the text, why didn't you appeal to the text rather than Holden's forum post? Checkmate.
>>47404841
It that actually your issue? What a shitbag.
>>47404846
Because the other anon had clearly read the text and not understood it.
>>47404858
> Saying "good job"
> "Cool and dramatic"
>>47405187
What do expect such a strawman to achieve? We can scroll up and read the original statement, you describing as 'good job' doesn't fool anyone.
>>47403948
>All you have to do to hit a role bonus there is to note how your character didn't even need to move, since the stroke was delivered such that the blood spray avoided the Circle. Dawn looks cooler, bing, 2 Solar XP.
Is this guy for real?
>>47405469
>Is this guy for real?
He's a fucking dev. He is not only for real, he is defining the reality of Exalted.
>>47405234
random 3rd party reading your highly amusing argument....re:holden's statement: good job does pretty much sum it up
>>47405813
You can trivialise anything, it doesn't make you correct or even clever.
does hellraiser's instinct let me just throw an opponent around without hurting him at all as long as theres enough scenery to destroy?
>>47405835
He's right though. We can all read and see how you're wrong and being a whiny baby.
>>47406039
Gosh, some anonymous poster told me I'm wrong but didn't back it up with any arguments. I'd best go rethink my life.
>>47405835
Honestly, the example in the link was about that trivial. One poster gave a scenario where a tiger jumped out of a bush and the Dawn chopped it in half immediately, and Holden said that if you complimented him on his excellent technique it would count as giving him the spotlight.
Personally, I think this is too broad a definition. You can't exactly give the spotlight to someone else if you don't have it to begin with.
I feel like I should just give up on Solar XP and give players 4 BP per session to spend.
>>47406644
So long as you give out some BP that can be spent on native Charms and some that can't, won't do any real harm.
>>47406656
Nah. I play a game with the BP only rules (and various little hacks to remove any disparities that can occur), and it works great without any "Solar BP".
>>47406644
I just give out 4 Solar XP per because I hate XP discrepancy and most people are pretty cool about RPing and what not.
>>47406644
There's a couple way to handle BP advancement rules. My group uses:
* 4 BP/session, generally use the costs in the book. 2 XP = 1 BP for outside cases.
* The first three levels of an ability cost 1 BP each, whether it's caste/favored or not. This is because the first three dots of all abilities are fungible by chargen rules.
* Charms, spells, and evocations that can be bought out of your starting Charm pool (i.e. E1) cost 4 BP; if they are from later, and not caste/favored, they're 5 BP. You can change this to have non-caste/favored always be 5 BP and prevent players from buying non-caste/favored Charms out of their starting pool of Charms. The latter helps keep caste/favored Occult sorcerers substantially superior in their field prior to E3, the former is simpler.
* There's no Martial Artist merit. As far as I can determine, it exists solely to prevent every character from becoming a Martial Artist due to Solar XP; since there is no Solar XP, you don't need it.
We also got rid of most of the non-story and non-mutation merits because they're trash.
It works great. People do mix and match spending between Solar Charms and other stuff.
>>47406898
>>47407382
I run a game using BP advancement and I hand out 4BP per session, and it took me a while to realize that the PCs advanced on the essence chart at twice the intended rate.
In the base system, you advance at 5 xp per session towards the next essence dot, which is like 2.5 BP. My players were rocketing up the essence ladder and it took me a while to realize that can't be right.
I think I would just use a flat cost XP system if I ran again
>>47408537
I've considered for a while using flat xp but the scaling costs does typically help to differentiate people. Only someone who really wants that last dot with spend the 7 or 8 xp on it when it's just one more, most people don't need that 1, or 2 dice with excellency.
>>47409001
yes, but it creates chargen discrepancies
>>47409332
Just use xp for both.
>>47408537
Why not just multiply the XP thresholds by .8 to get BP thresholds? Same pace of advancement, in terms of number of sessions. I mean the flat XP thing isn't terrible but it does kind of hurt your ability to pick up extra abilities in play (because they're about twice as expensive under flat XP, and competing for points with Charms).
>>47409001
I can't say this has been much of a problem in my pure BP game. I mean, first of all, it's not really that big of a deal for all your parties occultists to be running with Occult 5 instead of Occult 4, and secondly, people only tend to really push for 5s in stuff that's either bread-and-butter (your social ability, your combat abilities, etc), or important to the character concept (your Supernal, Craft, Occult for a sorcerer, etc).
Frankly the guy in our party with the most 5s is probably the least optimized.
Training times also cut down on it without introducing XP disparities, since picking up dots require lots of downtime, even more if you're going for the very high end stuff.
>>47409389
Removing BP doesn't remove chargen discrepancies either, since a lot of chargen discrepancies are contained in the stage between "spend automatic pools" and "spend BP" (e.g. 5/5/1 versus 4/4/3 for primary attribute). You'd have to switch to pure XP chargen, which, I'm already twitching at the thought.
>>47409389
Unless you mean ignore the chargen rules and instead just give them a mess of XP to work with instead of dots and all that, that doesn't solve the problem.
>>47409577
>I mean the flat XP thing isn't terrible but it does kind of hurt your ability to pick up extra abilities in play (because they're about twice as expensive under flat XP, and competing for points with Charms).
I would adjust the cost of abilities to make them the same as the BP system. Flat XP seems superior because all the charms and workings that include XP costs are much easier to calculate.
>>47400793
>summoning a Second Circle Demon
Under no circumstances do this while trying to co-operate with a Wyld Hunt. Celestial Circle Sorcery is for gods and anathema. I'm pretty sure people who weren't in her inner circle would even look at Mnemon suspiciously if she demonstrated what she can do with the Emerald Thurible.
Swarm of Agatae?
>>47404466
>a basic fence or sign to keep children and simpletons from wandering into the Underworld by mistake
I'm sure I've read somewhere that the borders to shadowlands are marked by white or white-washed standing stones placed at regular intervals. Simple, cheap, universal. Get very cross with your children if they play around the stones as it gets dark.
What happens when you enter a Shadowlands at the wrong time? Do you just teleport to the Creation/the Underworld from the Underworld/Creation?
>>47409901
> What happens when you enter a Shadowlands at the wrong time?
AFAIK, exactly the same thing always happens when you *enter* a shadowland regardless of time: you are now in a spooky half-dead zone mixing traits of Creation and Underworld.
It's only when you *exit* that what happens depends on time.
>>47410406
So you could enter a shadowland at night, turn around, and walk into the Underworld?
This is what I'm interested in. Does the world around the shadowland visibly change from your perspective the moment you enter it?
>>47409579
The solution I'm looking at for my next game is to calculate the optimum XP value of chargen, calculate the nominal XP value of each chargen, and award the difference in Solar XP.
Sure, that's a lot of maths, but ita frontloaded, and we use a digital character builder that can do it for us.
>>47399089
I remember in 2e they could do this weird shaping thing that explicitly had the same affects as sorcery while not actually being sorcery.
>>47411180
Oh, now I see what you're getting at. I'd probably say that it's a gradual change as you approach: anywhere your line of sight passes through the shadowland at night, you see Underworld. See pic. So initially it's Creation all around and this one weird blotch with a darker line-region behind it, as you get close to the warding stones it's all Creation behind you and Underworld visible ahead through and past the shadowland, and once you step in and have shadowland in all directions, you see Underworld all aroun.
>>47399089
>>47412213
They can also learn the "legit" stuff, but it kinda fucks them up since now they've got a part of Creation inside them that never goes away.
It's like water having a bit of ice in it that never melts; no matter what that Raksha does now or what identity it wears, it'll always also be a master of White Reaper Style.
welp, backer charms went in for approvals.
>>47412966
Cool, any word on when they could be published? It took a while for the core book, but this is considerably shorter.
>>47412983
no idea, depends on if they get approved or get sent back for another editing pass.
So, how would a Sidereal go ronin for any amount of years? Doesn't Fate detect Exalts pretty well unless they hang out in Wyld zones/the Underworld/Malfeas 24/7?
>>47413474
I imagine it's the same as how Solars, Lunars, Abyssals, and every other potential threat to Creation gets by.
Heaven simply has too many irons in the fire, and too much entrenched corruption and politicking to deal with them effectively.
They might know about a Ronin sidereal, but that doesn't mean they have the time or resources to deal with them. You just need to scoot under the radar long enough to git gud, at which point, it doesn't matter.
>>47413552
You can also dramatically prolong your independence by being useful ANYWAY.
A Solar who is directly campaigning against the Realm/Heaven is obviously going to become a bigger priority than one who's content to just step on dictators in the South or whatever plebian thing.
Ditto for a Ronin Sid: take care of your fair share of fate errors and Heaven might not be in a big hurry to come snatch you up.
Has Holden or Morke said anything stupid about session lengths yet?
The game feels like the intended session length is like 8 hours. Or at least I always feel like we've only done half as much as they seem to expect us to have done every session.
>>47413753
I tend to go for half that.
>>47413753
>Exalted play sessions generally last between three and eight hours—it’s something you get your friends together to make an afternoon or evening of.
From the book.
>>47413753
Our sessions barely scrape into the three-hour mark, honestly. We play on a weekday night (only time everyone can regularly get together without interfering with other commitments), and people work the next day, so we run from 7:00 - 10:00.
this is my waifu
what caste would dark souls solaire be?
>>47414224
Heroic mortal.
>>47412074
>tool
ed's tools? anthema? other?
>>47414234
wasn't he at least technically some sort of godblood or halfcaste?
Am i mis remembering or did the devs say somewhere that not every single new exalt was going to get their own hardback this time around?
>>47414370
Maybe we'll get lucky and not have to deal with Lunar players this edition...
>>47413947
Oh hey someone who's read it.
Where does it say that?
>>47414472
Right at the beginning, under How To Play Exalted. Page 24 of the backer version.
>>47414299
Solaire isn't the Firstborn of Gwyn. He's a normal ass guy.
>>47414251
My own one. I've posted it here before, but it didn't get much attention. It's actually done as a phone app, but I've got a web-version running too, at http://loom.webtelligence.com.au/
It's a bit slow to load the first time, because it's got full-text charms and rules, and the files are a bit weight. Like I said, was done as a mobile app originally, so file size was less of an issue.
Because it's a direct copy-paste of a mobile app, it has some UI elements that are unintuitive for a web app:
1) Long-click instead of double-click. In general, a single-click will bring up help, a long-click will edit the item in question
2) Swipe-left for character list and load/save functionality, swipe-right for configuration stuff
3) Saving a character only saves it to your local browser cache. You can use the "share" button to get a copy of the savedata, which you can import on another machine.
It's still a work in progress, but I've made multiple characters with it, and run my own character with it in game.
>>47414504
Haha wow.
If I had known this was here I would have made fun of it sooner. 3-8 hours, sure, whatever, that's all pretty close to the same.
>>47414773
I mean most games being honest would quote such a wide ranging figure.
>>47414613
cool
>>47391377
>Gil and Enkidu
>Not mates
>>47415198
Most modern games are designed around 4 hours and with good reason.
golden exhalation style....can you have armor or not?
" This style is incompatible with armor. Weapons and Armor: The Charms of this style can be used only with fi rewands or other fl ame-discharge weapons. Armor does not hinder the practice of this style. "
>>47415967
The cheat sheet says Armor: Yes, so that's what I'd go with. Too lazy to look if there was an errata.
I'm sorely tempted to make the Doom Guy as my next Exalted characterif I ever can get someone else to run this shit. I'm wondering if it's allowed to take one hand off a firewand so you can punch a guy to death in between reloads, though.
"Solar Experience" has to be one of the worst naming blunders of post-2010 RPG history. The name makes zero sense with the mechanic. It's experience which can be used on everything except the one thing unique to Solars: Solar charms.
>>47416401
Yes it is, because natural weapons are always equipped. Your unarmed is always available, especially if you can stunt it. You should be able to kick or parry with unarmed while holding a ranged weapon.
>>47416401
flame piece?
or maybe an aspect of the golden exhalation you mentioned, ...i forget if you can add charms to martial arts?
>>47385972
Lunars: The generals, bodyguards, tricksters, and right hand men
Night Caste: The superspies and great explorers.
>>47416419
And it's earned by acting like a Solar.
The conditions by which it's garnered (acting in line with your Exalt-type) and what it can be spent on (everything BUT your Exalt Charms) are two mutually exclusive goals, when it comes to naming.
Not really a blunder so much as an irreconcilability.
>>47416419
Only because they changed the "celestial" keyword to "terrestrial" in the final release - that had similar issues.
>>47416457
Only half of it's earned by acting like your Exalt type - and even that's not really true; it's gained by acting like your Caste. And you can even get away without doing that, if you cede the spotlight to another.
The rest of it's earned by acting like your character.
>>47416777
Yes, I'm sure calling it "character XP" wouldn't cause any confusion at all.
>>47416877
"Supplemental XP."
Or, better yet, get rid of Solar XP (and XP in general) altogether, because it's like a ridiculously contrived and unnecessary bandaid on a bandaid with its own bandaids.
Unrelated to the topic at hand, do you think it would be broken to allow a general to issue an Order action to multiple battlegroups at once as long as they had some means of communicating their plan to the multiple battlegroups? The Order action part of the rules seem to reference only one at a time but like a lot of 3e it's not precisely crystal clear.
A player of mine wants to be able to order his two Size 5 battlegroups around at the same time but I've seen the nonsense successes he can pull on an Order action and I'm very wary of letting him give 15+ dice to two battlegroups at once, especially in case he manages to get more.
Thoughts?
>>47416877
Good thing I never suggested that then, huh champ? If anything, Role-Playing XP would probably be the best term.
Or just making non-charm purchases actually worthwhile, and stop bifurcating the XP pool in the first place.
>>47416975
Yes. I'd be happy for him to be able to instruct both on what to do, but the dice bonus is too crazy.
Charms/evocations (appropriately costed - probably involving Willpower) would be the way to go for this.
>>47416995
Yeah I've been letting him basically have a sub-commander in charge of the other battlegroup that obeys his orders to coordinate and having that guy roll command with his paltry (in comparison) dice pool but the general really wants to be able to apply his ridiculous Order successes to both.
His one battlegroup was already trashing shit already so I got real nervous about saying yes to that. Would a custom Charm that lets him apply his Order bonuses to two different battlegroups be okay balance-wise? What about 3? I'm not sure exactly how large an army he's gonna try to get but I really don't know anything that could stand up to like 8 Size 5 Elite battlegroups with 20 something dice added on to theirs.
>>47391576
...I'm doing enough Infernals, I won't be converting these.
>>47416401
THEY ARE RAGE, BRUTAL, WITHOUT MERCY.
BUT YOU. YOU WILL BE WORSE.
RIP AND TEAR,
UNTIL IT IS DONE.
>>47403894
They have similar duce resolution mechanics, but using oWoD still needs a lot of work to make solar play nice. NWoD is even more of a clusterfuck.
>>47417060
Honestly? No matter what you do, it probably couldn't get any more ridiculous than Iron Whirlwind and its ilk. Nothing really has to stand up to 8 Size 5 battlegroups, because it would be impossible to get them all wailing on the same thing, unless it was the size of a mountain. Unless you're fighting an equal number of battlegroups, most of those are going be sitting around twiddling their thumbs, waiting for an opening in the battle.
I'd do something like: 5m, 1wp: make an order command that applies to 2 battlegroups. For every 1wp you spend in addition to the cost, you can command another battlegroup.
You could make him roll them all individually, which would make stuff like excellencying his command action prohibitively expensive, but all the dice rolling would bore me.
If he's that heavily invested in crushing stuff, as a Solar, he should be allowed to crush it in pretty much all but the most exceptional cases. Of course, he better have good personal defences too, as pretty much everyone would be aiming to gank the commander in a situation like that.
>>47416401
Now I want to make the BFG and plasma gun as weapons.
>>47417387
Yeah, a charm that allow him to make multiple Order actions like a magical flurry would probably be a good idea. Kind of self-regulates since he'd have to keep burning motes.
>>47416419
The other contender is "maximum Willpower". I think there's more mechanisms for exceeding your maximum willpower than there are subject to it.
>>47417429
Evocation: Hitscan Beam
>>47417429
Fiery Solar Cannon, page 79 of Wonders of the Lost Age.
>>47414370
I think Getimians and Liminals aren't getting a full hardback.
>>47413474
>how would a Sidereal go ronin
I'm pretty sure that the Broken Mask/Arcane Fate makes them somewhere between hard and impossible to track on the Loom.
>>47416401
>I'm wondering if it's allowed to take one hand off a firewand so you can punch a guy to death in between reloads, though.
In what possible universe would that not be allowed? Does D&D force you to spend an action to ready a weapon if you try to do that, or some similarly stupid shit?
I want to run a large community PbP Exalted game for people totally new to Exalted. I want to tap into the crowd of people that do subreddit roleplays and freeform forum RPs, but I don't know if I want to shove the whole Ex3 system down their throat from the onset.
So I think I either want to make it freeform just to introduce them to the setting and feel of the game, or make a rules-lite version. I've been consulting the modified rules for that Exalted quest on /qst/, but I'm not sure if it'll suit this.
Any recommendations? Am I an asshat striving after wind?
>>47422493
>large community PbP Exalted game
Run it as heroic mortals. The setting very nearly breaks down just when you have five Solars all in one place. Any more than that, and trust me, you won't be introducing them to the setting, you'll be introducing them to when-the-setting-breaks-down.
Anyway, just use the whole system, but consult the rules only when:
>There's a solid risk of failure.
>Failure will be at least as interesting as success is.
>Or two different PCs are vying against each other in some way.
Can you guys tell me how Vanishing from Mind's Eye Method actually works in play?
How does it work for events prior to activation?
How does it work for events while committed?
How likely is it for a Wyld Hunt or other enemies targeting my circle to be able to remember me?
What can I do to stack the odds for my circle to remember me?
What shenanigans could it let me get away with?
>>47422859
>Can you guys tell me how Vanishing from Mind's Eye Method actually works in play?
No, because like many Charms it is impossible to determine conclusively how it works. Thanks, natural language.
>>47422591
On second thought, maybe I should limit it to 2-3 in a game and run multiple games, or just one.
Circles have always bugged me in Exalted. I've never particularly understood them. I guess I'm in a minority but they almost always seem unnatural to me, like there's nothing holding a party of these egotistical and powerful beings (of which very few exist in a massive in-game world) together other than out-of-character constraint.
>>47399414
>Light only exists to die in humiliating ways at the pinnacle of its' glory, darkening the world all the more for its' absence and the misconceptions spread in its' wake
>Fire goes out of control and ruins everyone who is drawn to it
>Everyone is trying to kill everyone for souls
>Dark is associated with quiet and doom, and spread everywhere all the time
>"imperfect dragons" in the form of primordial serpents manipulate the major civilisations into carrying out their plans, and are probably colluding with each other
>Everything repeats in an endless cycle until some asshat figures out how to smother fire with darkness to create an age of TRUE darkness
Dark Souls is literally Creation as designed only by the Ebon Dragon.
Are the Life Blighting Emptiness Attack upgrades worthwhile? I've never had a chance to take 'em all at the same time but in combat do you tend to use one or combo lots of them? I'd imagine the former considering how mote intensive using all of them at the same time would be.
>>47423034
>Circles have always bugged me in Exalted. I've never particularly understood them.
Yeah, I was the same way until I buckled down and thought about it.
What I actually don't like about Circles is the assumption that they just sort of... come together. A bunch of Solars meet each other, get revealed to each other, and I GUESS WE'RE A CIRCLE NOW.
That doesn't work for me.
What does work, though, is when party members went actively seeking each other out in order to build a team/alliance. When the Eclipse goes sailing around the Inner Sea trying to recruit known Anathema, rogue gods, and even Lost Eggs to be part of his Mass Effect style elite crew. When the Twilight seeks out a Dawn who famously slew an entire mortal legion at an Iconic anima display in order to take them on as a bodyguard during an archaeological venture in the Underworld. When a Night Caste slips into the city of a Zenith god-king and swears fealty to him, using the known Zenith as cover for any slip-ups as an Anathema, preferring to work anonymously from the shadows.
The trick is that 'how the circle got together' isn't the ST's responsibility. It's the players' responsibility to explain to you, the ST, how they sought each other out and made their alliance that turned them into a Circle. The only time it's the ST's responsibility is when the team was put together by some kind of patron, like a Deathlord assigning his Deathknights to a Circle, or whatever.
Now, there's an opposing school of though which suggests that Fate steers the Circle together in a sort of deus ex machina. That school of thought is absolutely retarded, and should be discarded whenever possible.
>there's nothing holding a party of these egotistical and powerful beings together
That's what an Eclipse Circle-making Oath is for.
>>47423851
That's probably why there's only about a handful of actual full Solar Circles. It makes sense for the Bull of the North to have one, because tales of what he has done spread far and wide. The others kind of just come together by accident. Is there any backstory to Swans Circle?
>>47423912
>Is there any backstory to Swans Circle?
Yeah, and it's mega dumb. The only halfway interesting characters in it are Harmonious Jade and Dace, and to be frank there's no reason for Jade or Panther to be with the Circle at all.
Is there anything more on Ixcoatli other than what's in the books or am I free to make shit up? I'm toying with the idea of GMing for Exalted with the setting being Ixcoatli.
>>47423946
>Is there anything more on Ixcoatli other than what's in the books
I don't even understand how the answer to that question could be 'yes.'
>>47423977
Dev bullshit spouted on forums.
>>47423977
The devs might have posted something on the forum, IRC, or Twitter!
That said, >>47423946 , you are free to make shit up. You are ALWAYS free to make shit up.
>>47423946
This was their original writeup, which was later shortened for the final book:
>In the uttermost East, beyond the city-states of Serpolet and fungus-ravaged Elytrum, stand the looming mounds and cyclopean ziggurats of semi-mythical Izahuaca—the capital of Ixcoatli, the Empire of the Winged Serpent.
>Travelers from dozens of tributaries and client states, from half-civilized tribes to ancient cities, make their way to the shores of Lake Achpilli. Merchants and pilgrims, nobles and vagabonds pass through the iron gates of Izahuaca’s ivy-bearded wooden walls under the watchful eyes of serpentfolk soldiers and their raitonfolk sergeants, clad in bronze breastplates etched with Old Realm glyphs, their faces concealed behind masks of jade. These are the native peoples of Ixcoatli.
>Ages ago, the serpentfolk—a people of great builders, administrators and soldiers—battled the raitonfolk’s scholarly warrior-priests across a thousand miles of deep Eastern forest, beyond the attention or interest of the Dragon-Blooded shoguns. Then the Great Contagion all but exterminated the feathered tribes, and the flood of Fair Folk that followed razed the great cities of the serpentfolk to the ground and slaughtered most of their gods.
>Years later, the serpentfolk encountered the survivors of the raiton clans. Rather than finishing the job of exterminating them, they accepted the remaining raitonfolk into their ranks. While the libraries of the serpents had burned during the advance of the Fair Folk, the raitonfolk preserved scrolls, books, and songlines dealing with the shared history of the two peoples, making their lore indispensable to the serpent people.
>The serpentfolk still overwhelmingly dominate modern Ixcoatli in terms of population numbers. Meanwhile, the raitonfolk occupy an enshrined position in the nation's caste system—they are priests, scholars, military officers and occasionally assassins, and their collective cultural wing is known as the theomilitary.
>>47424086
Continued:
>With the Fair Folk stirring again and a general wind of chaos blowing through Creation, the empire has had more and more trouble keeping the tribute channels moving and administrating its outlying holdings. In spite of this, their cultural traditions press them to continue expanding and to cast about for new potential conquests.
What are pelagials, or underfolk? I've heard them mentioned in the context of Exalted before, but never explained.
>>47423912
>>47423851
>just come together by accident
>absolutely retarded, and should be discarded
Do people in the Age of Sorrows call it that? Is AoS a term for devs/players/GMs or would your typical scholar actually use that phrase?
>>47425042
No one in the world aside from the gods and probably the Sidereals have enough historical knowledge to label it as such. Those guys probably do refer to it as such because they have an idea of what to compare it to.
>>47420849
Firey Solar Cannon isn't even statted yet.
Hell the damn thing is more set to BFG than Plasma gun. Plasma is rapid fire, Cannon is one shot.
What level artifact would a Meeseeks Box be?
>>47426032
Like a two, maybe three? You get a mentor or retainer for any one task for up to a day. I'd give it a mote cost for activation too.
>>47422591
what he said
>>47426765
>up to a day
Not really.
I kind of want to run an Exalted game, but my core issue is, uh, how the fuck am I supposed to make any non-mortal antagonist or other NPC. I mean, I can use the ones in the back of the book, but if I need literally anything else, it seems like I'm going to basically die having to come up with a handful of Charms and shit.
>>47427653
Look for patterns in charm costs for the NPCs and extrapolate from there.
what book allows me to make first age solars?
>>47423851
The way we work it in our games, is that most of the time, the members of our Circle are just doing their own thing, pursuing their own projects. This is the downtime between Stories.
But when something big comes up, they put out the bat signal, and their comrades-in-arms all gather up to deal with it. Like if you're a zero-dot Investigation Dawn, whose wife just got kidnapped, or a zero-socialize Twilight who just stumbled into a political conspiracy, or a non-combat Eclipse who heart through his diplomatic contacts that a Wild Hunt is on the way...then you call in the troops. Avengers assemble.
My players are responsible for setting up a backstory as to how they know each other, and I make sure there's enough communication/travel stuff between the players and their allies/retainers/mentors, etc to coordinate everyone.
>>47428926
1) Make a Solar.
2) Set all your stats to maximum.
3) Write "All of them" in the Charms section.
>>47428956
4) Add "(Principle) Be the biggest bastard : Defining" and "(Tie) Laughing manically: Defining" to your intimacies.
>>47423851
Its only really a problem for solars. Everyone else has something to bring them together. For DB's its the dynasty and great houses, for abyssals its the deathlords, for the infernals its hell, for sidereals its the buerou of fate, and for lunars its the silver pact
>>47429582
If solars did not just come together magically they would never come together as a circle. Not because they wouldn't want to but because being alone they would be killed before anything interesting happened. A single old Sidereal could easily kill an entire circle of new exalted who have to reveal themselves as anathema to get together. Solars have a price on their heads and plenty of petty gods in any of the major citys in the thresholds would easily report any solars for the rewards. So once you show yourself anywhere the ton of gods everywhere and their minions would report it to heaven just for the reward. A full anima display before you have people watching your back is a death sentence for Solars until essence 3-4.
Also it makes sense for Solars to have this property because they where formed before the start of thee war with the primordials. You would want to leader class to gather together in a trustworthy group just because it makes organizing the subordinates so much more low key since the gods don't have to gather the Solars together by showing up physically when the primordials might leave the pleasure dome at any time to rip around creation whenever they chose to.
What the Christ does Mind-Manse Meditation actually do?
>>47429748
>Also it makes sense for Solars to have this property because they where formed before the start of thee war with the primordials. You would want to leader class to gather together in a trustworthy group just because it makes organizing the subordinates so much more low key since the gods don't have to gather the Solars together by showing up physically when the primordials might leave the pleasure dome at any time to rip around creation whenever they chose to.
This is retarded.
Not only is this is a 2e-esque attempt to tie every setting element to the context of the primordials, it makes multiple assumptions about the most ill-defined period in Exalted history.
>>47430667
Wouldn't most of the innate things Solars do be based around killing/dealing with the primordials? It is what they were made for.
>>47430781
Only if the design process is conscious. Which it wasn't.
Conky's Exalts are Solars. That's the only kind of Exalt he could have made. There's no hypothetical "peaceful" Solars he could have alternatively made were he making them for something else. Similarly he couldn't have made "war" Solars to hyper-optimize or "weaker" Solars to make more of them, or whatever else.
>>47430781
That was the intended goal of the Gods but they really didn't have control over their Exalted, their means was simply to give some of their power into the hands of Mortals to let them fight their war for them.
The power of the Sun shone through the lens of the Mortal is a Solar that is the only thing it could be. The Sun couldn't have chosen to power down, say their Lore powers to get more Melee murder powers. That was outside of his control.
The only type of Exalt the Sun could have ever made were the Solars that we see in the books, it could not be any other way.
>>47430624
Either nothing, or totally circumvent all your Storyteller's prep, depending on how you like your natural language.
>>47430819
>>47430858
Why would you make super kill me men only if you could control how they where formed? One would think you would need masters of all types to lead a fight against the primordial since you as gods can not directly attack them in any way. You would need lore to study the nature of the primodials themselves actively as they wage war. Super kill men alone would lose outright.
>>47430819
This.
The Exalts are not purpose-built weapons, they are mortals uplifted with the power of the Gods (originally for one purpose).
Its an important distinction.
>>47430957
But the themes and power of the Sun do embody all those things already?
>>47430957
You're missing the forest for the trees.
The point is that there's no "alternative" version of Solars that could have existed. Not without changing who the Unconquered Sun is, and thus what his powers would be like.
You see this with Exigents too; each one is almost certainly made for some specific, immediate purpose (Janest and the encroaching Raksha horde) but that purpose doesn't show in the Charmset at all; Janest wouldn't have any more or less special "anti-Raksha" powers than any other Exigent made by that same Harvest God.
>>47430958
it is also not to say the unconquered Sun does not have some sway since he does speak to each Zenith when they exalt
>>47430955
This is why nobody will ever rewrite all the Charms to be legible without tweaking them: it is literally impossible.
>>47431007
That doesn't really have anything to do with the "intrinsic" features of the Exaltation.
Conky could choose to talk to every Solar, and he could choose to talk to none of them. He deigns to talk to the Zeniths because of what they are and their missions, but it's not the same thing as Conky getting to choose whether or not Solars have Empowering Shout.
>>47431006
I see what you are saying. Then could it not be that the force that brings together a circle of Solars is also just in the nature of the Unconquered Sun?
>>47430624
The simplest mechanical effect is that it lets you accomplish (Essence) hours of deduction and thought in 10 seconds.
Its primary effect is to force your way through a point where you, OOC, are stalled out in an investigation. The ST hands over a clue that leads you forward.
>>47431062
yeah it could be - depends what you want. I think the 3e corebook makes some vague reference to solars naturally seeking each other out. I don't have it with me so I can't say.
>>47431151
>The simplest mechanical effect is that it lets you accomplish (Essence) hours of deduction and thought in 10 seconds.
Okay.
What can I /normally/ accomplish in (Essence) hours of deduction?
>>47430955
What's this 'natural language' thing that keeps getting mentioned?
>>47431258
There's two ways to write things like RPGs:
1) Technical language, where everything is rigorously templated (e.g. Magic: the Gathering cards)
2) Natural language, where you'd write it how you'd normally talk to someone (e.g. D&D spells)
Ex3 Charms are the latter.
>>47431183
It lets you figure out a Solar thief using Master Plan Meditation before he gets away.
But,
>Its primary effect is to force your way through a point where you, OOC, are stalled out in an investigation. The ST hands over a clue that leads you forward.
Being able to just say "I DO find a clue" seems really good
>>47431258
It means that instead of using well-defined keywords and precise language to describe a charm effects, charms are written in flowery prose, with mechanical nuggets chucked in the middle, such that it's hard to differentiate between the actual effect of the charm, and it's florid description.
>>47431151
That's explicitly what a Case Scene is (succeeding at a case scene action tells you where to go to progress your investigation), and there's a "perfectly succeed at case scene" far earlier in the tree.
Also, given that there's no mechanical limitation on how much deduction and thought you can do in an hour, speeding it up is mechanically meaningless. As the charm text itself says, "the effects of this charm are largely dramatic".
>>47431344
>That's explicitly what a Case Scene is (succeeding at a case scene action tells you where to go to progress your investigation), and there's a "perfectly succeed at case scene" far earlier in the tree.
And sometimes THOSE leads don't pan out, or all the clues are on the table but the player is just not quite getting it. This is for helping the player be smarter than they are IRL.
>>47431258
To build on what others have said, technical language means that everybody reads a given Charm and understands what it does and how it works in the same light. If there is ambiguity or lack of clarity, it should and needs to be removed in subsequent drafts and edit. This doesn't occur with natural language, at least not as The Liars Holden And Morke do it.
For example, look at the text of the Charm Soul-Nourishing Technique:
>The Solar’s words are bread and water to those who listen. The Solar gives a sermon, recites a parable, or tells a story that explains one of her Defining Principles and why it means so much to her, how it influences her views and what it reveals about Creation. This sermon must last at least an hour. The Solar’s words feed the audience like a nutritious meal and hydrate them like water from a fresh spring. Listening to this sermon grants listeners automatic knowledge of the Principle being discussed without needing to make a read intentions action.
What does this do? Because of the way it mixes florid prose with actual mechanics, it's easy to think, "uhh... it tells people what one of my Defining Principles is?" The actual purpose is to feed and water people with just your words. But you still don't know how much food/water this is supposed to count as (a day's?).
>>47431513
>But you still don't know how much food/water this is supposed to count as
It literally says "like a nutritious meal."
>>47431569
Oh yeah? If I'm using this to feed my army how many "nutritious meals" do they need per day, bitch?
>>47431405
No - if you're an Int 1 in real life, and your character is an Int 5, then the ST should give you the conclusions your character would be able to come to - that's the whole point of rolling (Int + Investigation). Pass, and your character successfully deduces stuff.
>>47431592
Probably 3 or 4, like normal human beings doing significant labor.
>>47431629
"Probably."
>>47431698
What, you want them to put in that nonmagical humans can't subsist on sunbeams and moon farts, too?
>>47431715
No. I want them to put in clear language how much food that counts as. No, "nutritious meal" doesn't mean jack or shit. A 600 kcal meal can be just as "nutritious" as a 3000 kcal one.
I find the idea that you have to use it multiple times to feed people for a day to be completely insane and retarded because it costs a WP. If I accept your argument, the Charm is useless. I can't actually meaningfully fill people's bellies with this for more than a few days, because I will just straight up hemorrhage willpower from using it. It's so niche as to be useless.
A better example is this:
Willpower Enhancing Spirit
>The Exalt remembers past lives and past failures, and knows that her death is the death of the world. Once per scene, the Exalt may pay two Initiative when struck with a decisive attack, instantly regaining a point of temporary Willpower."
This doesn't actually let you gain memories from your past life - it's mechanical effect is to regain willpower. The other bit is just evocative fluff to make it sound cool. Compare that to "Soul-Nourishing Technique. Why is "remembers past lives" fluff, but "hydrate like water from a fresh spring" a mechanical effect?
>>47431768
>If I accept your argument, the Charm is useless.
Then don't, I guess?
I'm not invested in every game of Exalted being the same.
>>47431770
>This doesn't actually let you gain memories from your past life - it's mechanical effect is to regain willpower.
Well it might. Just that those would have narrative effect only.
>>47431789
I'm invested in being able to read this book and then play with my ST without us having to discuss what this effect /actually/ means, or how this Charm /actually/ works, and reason it out from first principles, which I have definitely found us doing on more than one occasion.
>>47431846
ok holden
>>47431801
>Well it might.
Entirely the problem with natural language.
>>47431909
This doesn't even make sense. I'm angry at Holden's stupid writing philosophy. If I was Holden you better believe every Charm would have crisp, clear mechanical definitions.
>>47431513
It feeds them like a nutritious meal, why isn't that enough? If they are human then they need 3 squares throughout the day (but they're probably used to a lot less, given most of Creation is utterly destitute). Perhaps if they are some engineered race like Djala they need more or less. If they're working harder (like an army on the march) maybe they need more to not have some rumbling in their stomachs.
What's probably worse than your actually, literally autistic (and not in the 4chan way) need to have everything laid out for you is that you've missed the point of the Charm. This is so Jesus can explain the evils of usury to people who don't have money, or let a liberator explain freedom to people who were born into the yoke.
You are more dense than a black hole, and half as bright.
>>47430624
>The effects of this charm are largely dramatic. Entering the mind manse allows the exalt to find the solution to a riddle or mystery that allows her to forward her investigation.
Gee whiz is sure is nice to have basic reading comprehension
>>47431928
by 'well it might' I just mean you could RP it as being literally that if you choose to - you could do it anyway even if the charm didn't have that flavor text
>>47432001
Fair, but fair
>>47432001
>It feeds them like a nutritious meal, why isn't that enough?
Because a meal can be nutritious and have 600 calories in it, or it can be nutritious and have 3000 calories in it, and the difference hugely affects how useful this Charm is.
>This is so Jesus can explain the evils of usury to people who don't have money, or let a liberator explain freedom to people who were born into the yoke.
If I talk to you for a fucking hour about something and you listen to me, you now understand what I'm talking about? That's not a Charm. That's normal human social interaction.
>>47432094
>and the difference hugely affects how useful this Charm is.
no, no it doesn't. I can think of literally no situations where a ST is going to try and mechanically represent how many fucking calories a solar's story meal gave the people he's leading through the wilderness.
>>47432116
You mean you don't keep track of your daily caloric intake, bowel movement frequency, and, if female, when your period is?
Also: do your charms and/or spells work if you are on your period?
>>47432116
If it's 3000 calories, that means I'm spending 4m 1wp per day to feed my army as it marches; if it's 600, that means I'm spending like 20m 5wp (and also five hours) per day to feed them. I'm not saying it should give a specific number of actual calories; rather, I'd like to know roughly how many uses of this Charm I'm supposed to use to actually feed people per day, without getting in a retarded argument with my ST.
>>47432150
>Also: do your charms and/or spells work if you are on your period?
Why would they?
>>47432202
>If it's 3000 calories, that means I'm spending 4m 1wp per day to feed my army as it marches; if it's 600, that means I'm spending like 20m 5wp (and also five hours) per day to feed them.
If you're literally keeping track of how many calories your army is burning on their marches the problem is on your end.
Also seek medication for your autism
> I'd like to know roughly how many uses of this Charm I'm supposed to use to actually feed people per day, without getting in a retarded argument with my ST.
1/day unless your ST has it out for you
Who would pick the female character flaw anyway?
>>47432202
Never before has the point of Exalted been so grossly missed.
>>47432253
I love playing a sexy bimbo. 1/1/5 Social krew 'til the day I die.
>>47432228
Thats what I want to know
>>47432244
>If you're literally keeping track of how many calories your army is burning on their marches the problem is on your end.
Do you always argue this dishonestly, or is it just for me? I literally said I didn't actually want a specific number of actual calories.
>>47432309
Yeah you may have said that, but in the same god damn post you talk about how many times a day you would have to do it based on how many calories it actually provided, so you pretty clearly do.
>>47432356
Calories are a useful, objective way of talking about how much food feeds you. I didn't want to be vague ("a small breakfast" "a feast of a supper") or self-referential ("a meal that would be one of three square meals" or "a meal that would leave me full for the rest of the day"). Sorry if it confused your tiny pea brain to use such an erudite term.
>>47432373
>I didn't want to be vague ("a small breakfast" "a feast of a supper") or self-referential ("a meal that would be one of three square meals" or "a meal that would leave me full for the rest of the day").
The system doesn't engage with food on the level where any of those share any meaningful difference. The food gathering charm from survival just says it gets enough food to feed someone, while making no mention of how much that is. The actual starvation rules just say you can go stamina days without food before dying. In general the way the system is set up you basically have 'food' or 'no food' and thats about it. Its a game about epic heroes, they kind who struggle on even if they dont get enough to eat. If you really want to you can bring back 2e rules and say people get cumulative peanlites if they dont get enough to eat but by default the system doesn't need to go into that detail because it doesn't deal with that level of detail.
>>47432557
>The food gathering charm from survival just says it gets enough food to feed someone, while making no mention of how much that is.
"For a day." If Soul-Nourishing Technique said "feed and hydrate for a day," I'd have no complaint with that ambiguity. However, as people here have shown, "a nutritious meal" draws to mind one of many - but if you accept that, the function of the Charm seems so specific and niche as to be inane and dogshit.
>>47428926
Dreams of the First Age.
>>47430958
>The Exalts are not purpose-built weapons
This is the opposite of what 2e explicitly says. Exaltation was a weapon made specifically to kill primordials.
>>47432279
Then maybe the book should actually fucking clarify on such things.
>>47432721
2e had the worst lore in Exalted's history, including all possible permutations of houserules and future editions. Nobody cares what 2e explicitly says.
>>47432725
Sorry dude, but it's quite clear for those of us without autism. Not everyone needs everything to be in explicit bullet points to be understood.
>>47432721
Even then it's much the same. Autochthon came up with the idea of a method of empowering mortals with the gods' power which would be capable of murdering the Primordials. However the way the gods' power interacted with this process was absolutely not under the gods' or Autochthon's control.
The Solars could only ever be Solars because the Unconquered Sun is the way he is and his power is the way it is.
>>47432754
>Nobody cares what 2e explicitly says.
That's objectively untrue and you're letting your edition war hate boner take control of you. 2e has a wealth of lore while 3e has virtually none.
>>47432897
>2e has a wealth of lore
When you have a cesspool, you shouldn't act proud of how deep it is.
>>47432897
>2e has a wealth of lore while 3e has virtually none.
In the sense that the garbage dump has a wealth of objects while my house has very few, yes.
>>47432770
It says otherwise when so many people detest the 'natural language' of the system itself.
Hell, using your logic why even have a system? Everything can just be freeform. It makes no difference to you after all.
>>47432770
>>47432933
It is true that the Charm is clear in what it does. It provides one good meal. Yes it costs a lot, and yes it's a bad Charm.
>>47432917
>>47432928
>you're letting your edition war hate boner take control of you
Great job proving my point. I'll see in you in the 5e threads where you say 4e was superior.
>>47432897
No lore is better than bad lore
>>47432982
Did you forget the part of 2e where there was literally 0 editorial oversight on writing and people writing different chapters in the same book had 0 contact with one another?
Man I understand how broken 2e was having played it quite a bit myself but I really liked a lot of the gonzo bullshit that was a part of it.
I really liked all the metaphysical questions that were answered because it allowed me to understand the basis of the world and work out from there instead of having to memorize a ton of lore. Much simpler to learn the rules and apply them to new situations than prebuild a bunch of situations ahead of time.
I very much enjoy this new style and will absolutely play 3e over 2e but not all of 2e lore was awful, it was just a different take on things which is now at odds with the current take of leaving a lot of things mysterious. Which isn't a bad take! But damn, the hateboner for a lot of the 2e lore I enjoyed is sad to watch.
>>47433058
Did you forget the fact that there's a rather sizeable middle ground between "everything in 2e is objectively shit" and "OMG 2e was written by Jesus"?
>>47433085
The problem with 2e is that it doesn't sit comfortably in that middle ground. It sits dangerously close to the former.
>>47433085
>Did you forget the fact that there's a rather sizeable middle ground between "everything in 2e is objectively shit" and "OMG 2e was written by Jesus"?
Virtually everything bit of lore in 2e that was good, was also in 1e.
>>47432897
>2e has a wealth of lore
2e is about removing all mystery from the setting, reducing every setting element to its context in the primordial war, explaining the metaphysics in a mechanistic way, and generally being as banal as possible.
Compare the section on Nexus in 1e to 2e. In 1e, its all about the city itself, and what it means to live in the largest, filthiest city in the East; a place of wonder and danger. The Emissary is barely mentioned at all.
In 2e, Nexus may as well be synonymous with the Emissary, because thats all it can talk about.
So yeah, I'd prefer to ignore all of 2e entirely, it doesn't fit in 3e
>>47433171
Seriously, purge 2e from your mind and go read Scavenger Sons, Ruins of Rathess, Games of Divinity, and Manacle and Coin. (Blood and Salt can come too.)
>>47433230
Uhh, I was advocating for 1e. I've read all those.
>>47429582
>silver pact
Idiotic trash. To this day they've never explained how the Silver Pact actually finds new Lunars. There are no powers or anything that enable them to do so.
>>47432001
>most of Creation is utterly destitute
Actually, most of Creation's population lives in the Realm, the Scavenger Lands, or along the inner sea, where there's rich, thriving farmland capable of supporting populations normally impossible in premodern societies. They don't have modern consumer economies or anything, and it's not some kind of idyllic problem-free agrarian utopia, but by any reasonable economic standard, the average person in Creation isn't doing too bad when it comes to food and shelter.
It's all the monsters, spirits, and bad men that tend to be the bigger problem.
>>47433547
The threshold and Realm siphon gigantic resources to feed the empire and to keep 10,000 dragons in golden palaces.
>>47433707
I was more talking about the fact that the overwhelming majority of the setting's population lives in areas that produce two, three, even four or five full crop harvests per year, due to peculiar climates and essences. There are plenty of places that doesn't have enough jade to mint a single coin, but most people have homes, and most people are far from starving.
