>"Hey guys, I'm starting up a gritty, realistic, grim, dark, mature, low magic, low fantasy campaign.
>"It'll be a sandbox of political intrigue, directly inspired by Game of Thrones.
>"I'm using Pathfinder because it's all I know. Level 1 and 15 point buy. No magic items. Core rulebook only, because I don't want any powergaming rules lawyers in my game.
>"Want to join?"
>>47314617
Sorry, Suzy, but I don't play with e-celebs.
Sure! Druid is fine right?
I proceed to make a middle ages version of Big Boss, I found my own kingdom, by soldiers, for soldiers. Fuck your intrigue.
You know I don't think I'd even mind that. I mean I'd be going in there expecting the worst, so I could only be pleasantly surprised
Just remember to bring beer
>>47314617
I see you also read the "red flags" thread.
How to play any campaign inspired by Game of Thrones.
Step 1) wait until your ally has turned his back and then stab him in it for some convoluted reason.
Step 2) Then rape his wife and children because according to GRRM, endless Grim-Dark misery and suffering = Realistic!
Step 3) Repeat steps 1 and 2 until you have no allies left
Step 4) Get killed because you pissed everyone off by being an edgelord faggot and you have no allies to defend you because you killed them all.
Step 5) Repeat above steps until the GM throws up his hands and says "Fuck it, let's just play High Fantasy again!"
Step 6) Victory achieved.
>>47314647
lolol, I lost it.
>>47314643
Who?
>>47314617
> "a gritty, realistic, grim, dark, mature, low magic, low fantasy campaign."
>"directly inspired by Game of Thrones."
>"I'm using Pathfinder because it's all I know"
any more red flags and I would feel like I'm in the URSS
>>47314655
Been there, done that.It was a fucking blast, 10/10 do recommend.
>>47314739
Not him but I assume he means the alien that Egoraptor married.
>>47314819
That's some textbook fetal alcohol syndrome right there.
>>47314850
And now without makeup
>>47314617
>"No plate mail. It's not realistic."
>>47314617
>level 1 in a political campaign
Oh fuck off, m8.
>>47314643
Well done.
>>47314886
Gore isn't allowed outside of /b/. Reported.
>>47314886
it's all the makeup, it grinds into your skin and ruins it over time
>>47314617
Just so you faggots understand, OP is a reference to this thread:
>>47274037
but there's literally nothing wrong with the scenario OP's laying out, except all the nightmare shit in the third line. Which is so exaggerated, nobody's stupid enough to play 3.5/PF *core only* in this day and age
>>47314617
>political intrigue
>DND
This is probably bait, but people still do that. It's some kind of masochism.
>>47315027
Nobody plays other games so why bother? They must be bad.
>>47315014
>Which is so exaggerated, nobody's stupid enough to play 3.5/PF *core only* in this day and age
You underestimate how stupid some people are.
>>47315027
I had a d&d campaign turn into domain management and intrigue once.
I now only run my homebrew when I want to do that sorta thing. A lot of folks bitch about the social mechanics, my bigger problems were that pricing and economics make no sense raw and that the players sending out agents and spies is completely handwaved if you don't make rules for it.
>>47315140
>I had a d&d campaign turn into domain management
In old editions, this was the intended endgame for players.
>>47315168
It was a weekly 5e game that lasted around a year. I didn't have magic items for sale and after the first couple of quests, it was a sandbox.
The wizard started crafting potions, the barbarian started to hire lizardmen and orcs into his personal envoy, the druid started a religious congregation, etc. By the end of the campaign they were level 8, ruled a handful of villages and were at war with a rival town; calling in favors from an orc tribe and using nature worshiping fanatics they sent into the town to launch assaults on their church.
It was pretty awesome but I quickly learned that there's no guidance at all for how to run domain management in 5e. Hell, I had to houserule heavily at the level 3-5 range when they were rolling 20 deep with mercenaries to important battles and buying businesses.
>>47315226
Should have just jacked the DM rules from 1e, Companion, or Birthright.
>>47315252
Birthright's domain management system is highly overwrought, nigh unplayable, and terribly balanced, I assure you.
>>47315263
As somebody who finds Birthright interesting, tell me more.
>>47315302
The top issues with domain management are:
1. The "starting domains" for PCs have no sense of balance to them whatsoever. In Anuire alone, you could choose for your PC to start off as regent of the small little "recommended" domain of Roesone... or you can start off in control of "the most powerful church in Anuire," the Western Imperial Temple of Haelyn, or the massive megacorporation that is the Heartlands Outfitters (which also has its own city-state).
2. Wizards are actually underpowered here. They are mistrusted by the populace to start with, their realm spells start off middling, and by the time said spells become strong, they are hamstrung by the fact that developing provinces reduces magical source ratings. (This can be circumvented by playing an elven domain, but elves are locked out of temples.)
3. Priests, on the other hand, are godlike for their ability to wield priestly realm spells (many of which, especially those from the supplements, are on the level of wizard realm spells) without having to deal with magical source reductions.
4. Some classes are objectively superior than others at the domain management subsystem. For example, fighters collect Regency only from Law, while rangers collect Regency from Law and Guilds (and have overland map mobility benefits), and paladins collect Regency from Law and Temples. Halfling ranger/priests can collect Regency from Law, Guilds, *and* Temples (while keeping the overland map mobility benefits), and are probably the single best character type at domain management.
5. The game claims that a government type wherein the province-owner delegates Law holdings to others is viable (and indeed, this is the case in the Rjurik Highlands), but this actually screws over province loyalty tremendously (and makes the Rjurik Highlands ironically quite disloyal despite the delegation of Law holdings, which goes against the lore).
(Continued.)
>>47315464
6. Some domains have less detail than others, which is a bad thing for a GM who has to manage a massive world. Some domains have listed treasuries, Regency accumulated, armies, and fortifications, while others go into no detail at all on such things. In fact, the writers were so lazy with some domains that they declared their holding values to be "unknown" and up to the GM to decide.
7. The action economy is completely screwed. No matter how expansive your lands are, you still have the same allotment of actions (and scale for those actions) as you did when you were starting off. This means that your lands are bound to rapidly spiral out of control once you start expanding... unless you make *every* new land you expand into a vassal state under your control (because then they get your own set of actions). However, since vassals can be disloyal and/or passive-aggressively be unhelpful, the DM is the one to control them; this means that eventually, the DM is playing out the majority of your little empire's actions.
8. The DM controls only a few other domains each turn. Every other domain is simply assumed to be zero-summing itself and not accomplishing anything, but also not losing anything. In other words, the PCs' domains and their DM-controlled vassals get to steadily improve, whereas the vast majority of the rest of the world is completely stagnant for no good reason.
9. I have not studied it too in-depth, but I have not heard good things about the mass battle system at all.
>>47314724
But not having the middle ages be full of rape and misery is offensive to me.
>>47315524
Most domains got their own Players' Secrets of X book, were those all highly variable in detail?
For the Mass Battle System, it shouldn't be too hard to rip it out and replace it with Battlesystem. The Naval Combat System might be a bit more difficult though you might be able to rig something up out of Spelljammer or something.
>>47314617
May I keep my walking stick at the table? You know, in case an Elminster shows up.
>>47314802
Thank you guys for my next character. But assuming we play 3.F how do i get this charactr to work properly? Since my DM does not allow Advanced Classes I thought of a fighter with high Int and a little Charism since he is a leader. ... I also thought of a Kniht but they are not stealthy enough ... and you dont have to be a cavalier to be a Sir.
>>47314617
>>47314617
I'd rather not man, doesn't sound like my scene.
>>47314617
I blame nerd culture in general for this.
It's deep obsession with labels of various types leads to an obsession with over-classification of absolutely everything, and whichever labels can be most easily applied to what is currently the most popular piece of media or favored inspiration is what they go with and try to make it fit.
They're all just words we use to help us manage our autistic need to give "stats" ti everything, no matter how irrelevant.
Anyone who's actually seriously written doesn't just shoehorn a thing into anything other then the broadest possible label ("fantasy" or "science fiction", usually) and then he writes his fiction; he doesn't waste time overthinking it's classifications and shit like that.
>>47314819
Ayy lmao
Egoraptor is a tranny, pass it on
>>47315464
Also, another massively overpowered "Recommended for PC use" starting domain is Danigau, in the Western Reaches of Brechtur. You start off in control of *eight* moderately-developed provinces, many Law and Source holdings, a huge amount of pre-accumulated Regency and GB, an elite army with considerable fortifications, and the inexplicable ability to raise defensive militia extremely efficiently.
>>47315524
>7. The action economy is completely screwed. No matter how expansive your lands are, you still have the same allotment of actions (and scale for those actions) as you did when you were starting off. This means that your lands are bound to rapidly spiral out of control once you start expanding... unless you make *every* new land you expand into a vassal state under your control (because then they get your own set of actions). However, since vassals can be disloyal and/or passive-aggressively be unhelpful, the DM is the one to control them; this means that eventually, the DM is playing out the majority of your little empire's actions.
>8. The DM controls only a few other domains each turn. Every other domain is simply assumed to be zero-summing itself and not accomplishing anything, but also not losing anything. In other words, the PCs' domains and their DM-controlled vassals get to steadily improve, whereas the vast majority of the rest of the world is completely stagnant for no good reason.
Addendum: If *each* PC controls their own domain, then the action economy is stacked tremendously in their favor, because they and their vassals receive many more actions than the DM ever will.
>>47315551
>Most domains got their own Players' Secrets of X book
The vast majority of domains do not, in fact, have Player's Secrets of X books.
When *many* domains have missing information on what resources they can bring to bear, it becomes a significant burden for a DM who has to manage a grand-scale world.
>>47315722
I'm willing to give it a pass on the lack of domain sourcebooks, because that's a natural consequence of the line getting canned.
Given how short they all are, maybe what TSR should have done is something like the Planes of Law box, i.e. a box with a bunch of smaller books in it, one for each domain.
>>47315014
>>47315088
So what system would be good for the game that OP's describing? I've only ever played DnD 3.5 and GURPS
>>47314617
>gm
>can only run one system
>>47315896
GURPS should be able to handle it, if you break out the SocEng stuff.
Reign is designed for that sort of stuff, and ACKS's endgame is your PCs becoming rulers.
>>47314617
how about no.
>>47315881
>Given how short they all are, maybe what TSR should have done is something like the Planes of Law box, i.e. a box with a bunch of smaller books in it, one for each domain
You would be looking at *31* domains for Anuire alone, not counting any temple-, guild-, or source-based holdings.
Cities of the Sun, Havens of the Great Bay, Rjurik Highlands (plain name, that), and Tribes of the Heartless Wastes *were* Birthright's equivalent of Planes of Law, Chaos, and Conflict.
>>47314617
Honestly, I just want GMs to realize that they need to make a strong starting adventure that sets up various aspects of the campaign world before pulling this sandbox meme shit.
It never works out, and on those ridiculously rare occasions where it *does* work that I'm sure anonymous faggots on the internet will try to convince me actually exist and are not merely the tall tales of a liar on the internet, it works out in *spite* of a GM's poor introduction to the campaign world. It works out because you lucked into an alpha player who actually takes initiative and makes his own goals in your utter blank slate of a game, which I say in the worst way possible. Where you have presented him with a blank canvas and said "Now add onto what I've got here," which you may note is fucking nothing, and then he says "yeah okay" instead of "wait, there's nothing here, what do I add"
Players need context before they can make meaningful decisions, and if you don't have any fucking context, you don't have any fucking meaningful decisions. The less context you have, the more often you're going to see players waffle around and latch onto whatever dumb thing strikes their fancy.
And no, this doesn't mean "make some big info dump pre-game," it means give them an adventure and use it to introduce some shit for them to actually give a fuck about IN GAME.
>>47315896
Reign is literally built to do this. It has rules for magic but "don't use the magic rules, and remove the Eerie stat" is all the 'house ruling' you would need to do.
>>47316131
Only sandbox game I've seen that worked, had an intro adventure for the first four or five sessions. The gm had the world planned out decently, the adventure more served as a way to drip feed exposition and faction conflicts.
>>47314914
A guy running around in plate mail all day every day is a little unrealistic
Want to see how fast a fat can run?
>>47314886
Eh, it's not that bad.
She probably would look better without make-up if she didn't put in on every day for two decades.
Still, it's not that bad, and that photo is really unflattering in general.
>>47316315
You would think so, until you realize that social asspies and autists are not a new thing and have been part of the human condition since we still proto-humans.
So chances are, the caste of dudes born and bred for war and taught a somewhat-strict set of rules for higher society social interactions a good deal were socially retarded when the pomp and fluff was removed from the equation.
>M'lady.
>>47314724
>endless Grim-Dark misery and suffering = Realistic
Well, yes.
Do you live in Suburbia?
>>47314914
It is.A plate harness with mail voiders not so much, hell even just on top of a hauberk if you don't mind the weight. Or a coat of plates/pair of plates/brigandine, that works too. What you said is studded leather tiers of retarded.
>>47314939
I dunno, Bronn was probably still in his first few levels- he doesn't win because he's a great fighter, he wins because he fights dirty.
There's something to be said for playing the nobodies scurrying around the court, pulling strings and getting the high-and-mighties angry at each other while you quietly embezzle enough for a nice country estate.
>>47315524
>9. I have not studied it too in-depth, but I have not heard good things about the mass battle system at all.
Everyone should throw their mass battle systems in the trash and use the 1e L5R one. It's straightforward, allows for heroic actions without being Exalted-level 'everything revolves around this one individual', and it's easy to adapt.
>>47314655
>>47314802
How would you GM a metal gear solid game (besides in GURPS)?
>>47317432
Savage worlds,using interface 0 ignoring all fluff and specifically internal setting text. Covers everything from magic robot limbs to mechs. May or may not actually contain nanomachines.
Given the system any specific details could also easily be stated out.
>Realistic
>Pathfinder
>>47314802
>Les Outremers
Anon, you realize "Outremer" was a name for the Crusader States established in the Levant, yes?
Considering that Wolf refers to him as "Saladin", it seems rather ironic. Unless that's what you were going for of course.
>>47315583
I'd go with a Ranger, actually.
>>47315464
>(This can be circumvented by playing an elven domain, but elves are locked out of temples.)
...elves can't have priests? How does that work?
>>47315027
ACKS nigga
>>47317432
If you wanted metal gear with it's more extravagent/esoteric/over-the-top aspects, Shadowrun would probably be your best bet.
>>47318610
No, as in physically they're locked out and kept out by bouncers.
>>47318014
>>47318712
Alright, but how would you capture the *feel* of the games?
>>47318744
Basically never let your players do anything and instead tell a retarded, contrived story rooted in fundamental misunderstandings of geopolitics, military etiquette, physics and biology.
So shortlist: the thread?
>>47318610
AD&D 2e is a game of race/class restrictions and level limits. Elves in Cerilia can only be fighters (level 12 maximum), rangers (level 12 maximum), wizards (no level cap), thieves (level 12 maximum), bards (level 9 maximum), fighter/mages, fighter/thieves, or thief/mages, as per page 5 of the Birthright rulebook.
>>47314617
Sure, dibs on Druid.
>>47318873
They can't be druids?
>>47318925
Going by the AD&D 2e PHB, only humans and half-elves can be druids.
Birthright lightens this restriction by allowing humans, dwarves, half-elves, and halflings to be priests of Erik (a.k.a. Aeric or Iraikhan), which are a direct upgrade to druids with no drawbacks. Elves are still locked out.
>>47318925
you don't need to be druid when you can be wizard with no level cap
>>47318744
Choice language and stylized missions? You can make d&d feel like CoC if you pick your words carefully enough.
>>47315161
But that would actually make this idea salvageable. Better to just stick with a generic flavor of D&D.
>>47319070
>Going by the AD&D 2e PHB, only humans and half-elves can be druids.
...so one of the most nature-focused races in D&D...can't do anything with the nature class?
Heck, there are Elven Gods. Who the heck is a priest of them if you can't be a priest?
>>47315896
GURPS or Burning Wheel
>>47314617
Yes, on the condition I get to GM every other week to cut down on your potential autism
>>47318744
Drop acid before running every session, then drop random plot twists from schlocky action movies into the game with no explanation or sense.
Proceed to make it awesome anyway.
Sure, lets play Thieves World.
>>47315464
>that picture
Are those Silver Knights?
>>47319171
>Heck, there are Elven Gods. Who the heck is a priest of them if you can't be a priest?
Elves can be priests of the multiverse-wide elven pantheon in AD&D 2e, but not in Cerilia.
>>47319324
I would not know.
>>47319469
>I would not know.
This is a Silver Knight.
Compare >>47315464
>>47314647
Is hunter mauling in the vanilla game or behind some dlc?
>>47315908
It's always weird to me how there are apparently so many groups and GMs that are dead set against ever trying another system. In our group we've basically used a different system for each of our last four games, and it wasn't a detriment at all. If anything it made it better, by keeping things fresh and allowing us to pick the system best suited to the particular game. Hell, one time we even switched systems in the middle of a running campaign, and it worked out just fine.
>>47315543
You're gonna be pretty let down if you ever study the actual middle ages, then
>>47314617
>>no magic items
>>core rule book only
>>15 pt buy
so what you are saying is that you want a high magic setting that fucks martial characters in the ass, and you have no understanding of the pathfinder system in part or whole. yeah pass. I don't say this often but you could literally not handle me.
>>47315896
Song of Ice and Fire RPG?
>>47314617
>>No magic items
>>Valyrian Steel
>>Faceless Men
>>Light bringer
>>Dragons
>>Blood magic
>>Children of the Forest
>>White Walkers
Your setting is shit and based on false pretense, ASOIAF is fantasy as fuck, the show actually tones down the series if anything.
For every bullshit retcon like targs being fireproof they add, they remove shit like Coldhands, the weeaboo properties of Valyrian steel, the black glass candles, the Others looking like snow fae and wearing ice armor and using ice swords, all the Starks being wargs, tons of prophecy, etc.
Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay is a pretty simple and popular setting that would help approximate both the lethality of the books as well as the blatant bullshit plot armor
Jon Snow burned armor fate point.
>>47315464
>>47315524
Are you familiar with ACKS ?
>>47319324
Yes, yes they are
>>47315896
This image gives me a headache unless I close one of my eyes.
>>47314617
>"Hey guys, I'm starting up a gritty, realistic, grim, dark, mature, low magic, low fantasy campaign.
>"It'll be a sandbox of political intrigue, directly inspired by Game of Thrones.
So... we dine and rape and destroy economies and polities until the die say that rocks fall?
We're basically medieval investment bankers without golden parachutes?
>>47314886
Fuck you I love android 17
>>47314617
>>47315014
anything trying to be like game of thrones as a selling point is an immediate red flag for me
>>47314724
How to be "authentically" medieval:
>don't ever have anyone doublecross anyone else, that never happens!
>don't ever have anyone suffer, especially women and children - the Middle Ages were a paradise for them!
>everyone's plans work out in the long run, all the time! it is incredibly unlikely for a person going to extremes for power to embark on a path that will ultimately prove self destructive
>remember, there is no such thing as a dumb asshole, and no one ever dies
I know you're just trying to piss off your GM, but it won't work unless he's an idiot that can't handle having fun in unexpected ways.
>>47314617
How dare you post so lazily while using third-best-girl as an avatar.
>>47322099
I mean, the point of this thread (and the meta-continuity of all other, equally shite, threads this one is merely the most recent vessel of) is idiots that can't handle having fun in unexpected ways, so, yeah.
>>47322546
Well, the point for you and me. I'm pretty sure there are folks out there who legitimately believe this shit and can't deal, so.
>>47316277
Yup. That's precisely how it needs to be done for it to work. A GM needs to actively work at establishing a hearty swath of starting context.
Damn near every "sandbox" game I've seen is code for the GM saying "I don't want to be bothered with making any kind of structure to my game at all. I don't want to bother making satisfying story arcs, I don't want to think very deeply about my campaign, I don't want to do anything based on creative or actual storytelling skills. I want to put the PCs in a randomly generated hexmap with pseudo-randomly made areas, think of little more than one sentence that describes each of those individual areas, and tell the PCs to go "find the fun," wandering around until they accidentally their way into a decent adventure, and I'll just play referee."
Spoilers: There is never fun to be found.
>>47319507
swords look more like black knight swords.
>>47315014
>nobody's stupid enough to play 3.5/PF in this day and age
FTFY
>>47319538
Base game. The DLC is mating season, and for some reason it still glitches around hunters.
>>47323270
3.PF can be some great gonzo fun if you restrict the tiers to 3 and 4 so that there's some vague semblance of balance.
>>47323638
how can anyone have fun with pathfinder without being able to smell children and vomiting spidersInto their mouths?
>>47323638
Pathfinder can be fun if you're having fun and playing with decent people.
Two things /tg/ are incapable of so I do understand the hate it garners.
>>47314643
>Sorry, Suzy, but I don't play with e-celebs.
Very well done.
:tips hat:
>>47323638
It's unfortunate that the game assumes that you're optimized as fuck, otherwise you could get away with that shit.
>>47314914
>>47316315
I shall build a wizard then.
>>47324301
>Fighting men are naked poverty striken plebs who can't run in full plate because it's not realistic.
>Magic man can wear arcane armor that doesn't tire him out and is as effective as leather armor
When will mundanes learn.
>>47314886
>>47314957
>>47316397
You can clearly see the swelling about the sinus cavities; around the eyes, as well as her puffy cheeks and pasty complexion. A-fucking typical over-doing it for decades shit; her skin may not even have pores anymore.
I work at a place that sells makeup and half the time someone buys it they bitch about it. Twice two separate girls said, "guys are lucky they don't have to worry about pasty skin or pale lips," and the urge to inform them that they're like that because they've been caking the shit on for 10+ years was almost unbearable. Plus, fuck you I exfoliate and moisturize; if I didn't I'd be a crackly sandpaper man and covered in wrinkles in my late 20s.
>>47316315
You do realize the average modern soldier (at least in developed countries) carries more weight around than people in full plate did, right?
>just want to run a comfy low magic campaign, kind of like the Hobbit but a bit bloodier
>even put in time to make my own system for it
>will never escape comparisons to Game of throne because muh low fantasy
>>47324574
Why would you want to escape comparisons to something you are legitimately being compared to?
>>47324574
>Make a gritty, low-magic setting that's bloody
>Gets mad when compared to GoT
You brought this on yourself famalam.
>>47324644
>>47324717
I read the books and thought they were alright but
(to me at least) comparing something to ASoIaF implies it focuses on lots of death, rape, mutilation, incest, etc. which is tonally different from what I really enjoy and want to make.
Tolkien's writing has a comfortable melancholy to it, but ASoIaF is more fixated on the graphic and shocking. They aren't really at all alike beyond their lack of pervasive, overt magic anyway.
I want my campaigns to be much, much closer to the former, with violence typically being a poor choice. No incest, castration, etc.
>>47324791
>ASOIAF is nothing but incest and mutilation
Is this bait?
>>47324791
>comparing something to ASoIaF implies it focuses on lots of death, rape, mutilation, incest
lolwut
I mean, I'm a MUCH bigger tolkienfag than GRRMbot, but your perception, while a common one, seems to be based around the idea that such content is strange, new, and shocking. That's flawed in the same way that someone unused to the idea of meat would find that a BLT "focuses" on the two little strips of bacon in an entire sandwich.
>>47314724
You know you can skip straight to a variant of step 4 by just trying to be a good guy?Lawful Neutral is the only true answer.
>>47324921
>just trying to be a good guy
You also have to be exceedingly bad at it.
>>47324813
>>47324854
I didn't say that's all it is. There are pages and pages devoted to descriptions of clothes and food, too. But you're kidding yourself if you think GRRM doesn't talk up these parts as being "gritty" and "real". He presents his work as shockingly realistic and people eat it up. I liked the books but after the fifth or six time a character got mutilated or raped or killed or whatever I started rolling my eyes. It wasn't shocking to me personally but it's sold as shockingly real.
http://www.tolkiensociety.org/2014/04/grrm-asks-what-was-aragorns-tax-policy/
But that's not what I originally meant. I meant that I wouldn't want someone to look at my campaign being "low magic" or "low fantasy" and think "Oh yeah, like Game of Thrones, with all the killing/whoring/Red Wedding/field-shitting." That stuff wouldn't be a big part of my ideal campaign. I wouldn't want that to be someone's expectation is all.
>>47324975
>I didn't say that's all it is.
No, you're just talking about a focus that's more or less entirely and invention of your mind. You're honestly just changing the subject now, so I'm out.
>>47324950
I think Ned Stark thought he was in the kind of book where the good guys actually win. If GRRM ever actually finishes the series before he keels over from a heart attack, I guarantee it'll end with every single character being slaughtered by the Others because they carried on with their petty squabbles and forgot about winter.
>>47325016
What do the books focus on then?
>>47325017
Is there a reputable, secure, bank-verified website where you can make bets like this? Because I would take that bet against you, to the tune of up to 10k.
>>47324854
I think ASOIAF is to fantasy what Star Wars was when it first came out. There just really wasn't anything from their genre before them that achieved mainstream popularity and wasn't bright and optimistic, which made/makes people perceive it as being way more grim than it looks/probably will look in hindsight.
>>47325017
Wow, way to miss the entire point. Good guys don't die because they aren't allowed to win, a handful of prominent ones die for doing stupid shit they should have realized would backfire horribly.Ned is told over and over again that King's Landing is dangerous but he ignores that and every other piece of advice he's given. Walder Frey is CONSTANTLY made out to be a bitter, petty, vain, jealous, obsessively ambitious asshole. I straight up expected Robb or someone close to him to get killed at one point, although I ended up changing my mind before the Red Wedding happened (can't remember why).
>>47325042
Political intrigue, interpersonal drama, and food?
>>47325566
>>47325017
It's worth mentioning that literally every "bad guy" gets their comeuppance in surprisingly karmic ways.
Joffrey dies in terror as he suffocates from poison (the cowards weapon), no one mourns his passing.
Gregor dies screaming from a slow-acting poison.
Cersei gets fat, ugly, despised and everyone in King's Landing sees it as she walks nude down the street.
Tywin dies in the privy by his own half-man son after seeing everything he worked for (strong dynasty) die with Jaime becoming a proper King's Guard.
GRRM is very much into "good guys win, bad guys lose", it just takes a few sacrificial lambs.
>>47324574
why don't you just play warhammer fantasy sempai ?
>>47325017
It's that story about the lich and gay marriage, isn't it ?
>>47325566
This. If you're dumb, you die. If you're unlucky, you die. Good guys not being immune to this isn't HURR DURR KILL ALL GOODGAISE
>>47314617
Thank you for taking all the best bits of the last thread and shitposting in my stead, qt anime poster.
>>47324574
I hear you. I start talking about a new setting whose major themes are the fair folk and schisms.
First thing I hear. From someone who hasn't even read/watched the throners, is a comparison to it.
>>47325699
Hasn't he gone on record as the entire point of the series being that he doesn't like fiction where the tension is fake because the book is about the protag so of course if there are more pages they're not going to lose? Something around those lines?
>>47325662
> Warhammer Fantasy
> Low Fantasy
>>47326390
WHFRP can be pretty low fantasy.
>>47324529
>implying the weight is why it's impractical
Knights occationally died of heat exhaustion on snowy battlefields
Plate armor is NOT comfy at all
The most heavily armored I can imagine someone going about their adventuring wearing armor is chain and a breast plate
>>47315524
7. Just sounds like it captures feudalism and it's impetus pretty well.
>>47326390
Warhammer fantasy is a kitchen sink setting that runs the gambit from the highest and most fantastical shit to entirely non magical.
The rules of the 2e rpg are also pretty decently suited for running the latter
>>47322851
Man, you have had some shitty GMs, and I am sorry for your lots.
The real way to run a Sandbox game is to
a) never tell your players it's a sandbox. imply hours of prep.
b) feed them a ton of lore and plot hooks every session, and flesh out (on the fly) the ones they go with, and ignore what they don't
c) occasionally throw in the things they ignored to show that the world is real
this allows you to be a lazy as fuck game master AND have an incredibly enjoyable campaign. It works.
>>47326867
Fair enough, ill concede that point.
I still maintain that Warhammer Fantasy is more high fantasy than it is low.
>>47326791
It may (or may not) capture feudalism, but it is not actually true to the setting.
1. If you have a look at the actual domain writeups, very few regents have vassals, even those who lord over very large domains. The only ones with vassals are the power-hungry ones or the ones who need to band together against a major, external threat.
2. Birthright is actually a very high-magic setting once you get to the rulers, because *domain management is literally magic*. I am not exaggerating here. Regency Points are literally magical energy drawn from the land, which rulers then use to conjure up and refine their holdings. Page 32 of the Birthright rulebook explains:
>Regency is the mystical power associated with blooded rulers and leaders. It's a blend of nobility, honor, and kismet that a true king wears like an invisible crown. If a character rules well and exemplifies the quality of his alignment, his regency is strong—his unseen aura of power helps him to do things that lesser mortals couldn't even dream about. If a king rules poorly, his regency weakens.
>In game terms, a character's regency is measured by a score: Regency Points, or RP. During the game, the regent can use these points to expand his domain, increase the power of his bloodline, or affect events occurring within his domain.
3. Perhaps this is just me, but once you have a great deal of manpower, gold, and raw strength of domain management management at your disposal, it should be possible to create more sizeable holdings with one of your actions than you could muster at the start of your career.
>>47316140
>Reign is literally built to do this
Reign is also literally garbage, but whatever you say. I know the game is built for political intrigue but so is the actual GoT RPG and it sucks shit, so intent != success
>>47327414
Tell an undecided third party who's trying to find a good system to learn and use why Reign is bad
>>47326660
Katanas also bisect knights and the English Longbow could melt steel beams
>>47318873
Is that young Reimu and her mom?
>>47314617
>Sandbox
>Pathfinder
>Minimum Rules
>Cute GM
Sign me the fuck on.
>>47327807
Not that guy, but I love Reign and feel like it's a bad fit for this idea.
I'd use Riddle of Steel or Burning Wheel.
Imo Reign doesn't do a Sandbox well, but does
> gritty, realistic, grim, dark, mature, low magic, low fantasy campaign.
Well enough.Of course grim and dark are subjective.
Reign is really about factions and I feel like the mechanics built in for motivation would be a stronger element in OP's suggested game, which is pretty basic in Reign, compared to Spiritual Attributes in TRoS or the BITs in BW.
It's not a shit choice, but I think there are better choices. Same reason for ACKS.
>>47326660
[ citation needed ]
>>47314617
This is why you don't play with people who read fantasy novels, OP. Fantasy is a genre that has the potential to be the most diverse of genre fiction, and yet it manages to abuse Sturgeon's Law even more than other types of media and is 99.9% derivative trash. You shouldn't expect a campaign by people who consume shit to produce anything but shit.
GRRM and ASoFAI is the new Tolkien, except Tolkien was actually fun at times.
>>47328800
> agrees system is bad
> suggests two systems that are even worse
> one of which has the most pretentious dev in RPG history, save possibly for Gygax
Yeah I think you should stop trying to do this recommendation thing.
>>47329226
>Using "pretentious" as a criticism
Speaking of stop trying to speak on matters of recommendations, stop posting.
>>47329061
Fucking totally.
Tolkien is so much fuckin fun.
Check it out!
>When spring unfolds the beechen-leaf and sap is in the bough,
>When light is on the wild-wood stream, and wind is on the brow,
>When stride is long, and breath is deep, and keen the mountain air,
>Come back to me! Come back to me, and say my land is fair!
The fun is right there, in between the lyrics and my coughs of blood!
>>47329532
>I can't appreciate a nice song by an Ent unless the Ent is getting violently murdered or graphically fucking a deer
>>47329532
I'd say the Hobbit was a bit more "fun" than LotR, to be fair to you, but seriously? Coughs of blood? Who's being melodramatic now?
>>47324574
>>just want to run a comfy low magic campaign, kind of like the Hobbit but a bit bloodier
How does that even compare to GoT? Just don't have everyone betray everyone else all the time
>>47329532
Wow, that's really beautiful.
>>47316440
nice meme
>>47322099
>it's either grimdark or noblebright, there is no middle ground!
You're probably thinking of the *dark* ages, which still weren't hell on earth but were worse than the Middle ages.
>>47322546
>"political" "intrigue" and grimdark everywhere
>unexpected
sure, man.
>>47329532
>Millennials
>>47325044
> Is there a reputable, secure, bank-verified website where you can make bets like this? Because I would take that bet against you, to the tune of up to 10k.
It would turn into an assassin's market within days.
>>47329061
Wow, you don't like Tolkien, you must be really cool! I bet you see things how they really are, not how SOCIETY tells you they are!
Yeah, fuck those people who enjoy a genre the WRONG WAY! What were they thinking, liking what you don't like? Sometimes I think we were born in the wrong generation.
>>47315896
Either this
>>47319644
Or warhammer fantasy 2e
>>47325633
>Joffrey dies in terror as he suffocates from poison (the cowards weapon), no one mourns his passing
As a part of Littlefinger's schemes, where's his comeuppance?
>Gregor dies screaming from a slow-acting poison
And gets reanimated as a necrotic thrall, where's the Qyburn's comeuppance?
>Cersei gets fat, ugly, despised and everyone in King's Landing sees it as she walks nude down the street.
She got off easy, real fucking easy.
>Tywin dies in the privy by his own half-man son after seeing everything he worked for (strong dynasty) die with Jaime becoming a proper King's Guard.
Tywin is the most moral person in the primary Lannister line. All of his children are worse than him and they're still kicking.
And many more "good guys" have died than "bad". Plus all the supposedly good guys that really deserve a ritual execution. Fucking Dany literally brought the Four Horsemen to the Ghiscari, for instance, and I guarantee you she won't be executed by that Khal. No, she'll make it out, at least out of that.
>>47326939
>"But MY sandbox is DIFFERENT!"
Yeah okay pal.
>>47326939
I think this is what our ST does in our VtM game, and it works for us. (I mean, we've realized it's a sandbox by now, it wasn't a big secret, but there's still the implication that the ST has prepped for ages each session.)
>>47314617
>"Hey guys, I'm starting up a gritty, realistic, grim, dark, mature, low magic, low fantasy campaign
Ok, with you so far...
>"It'll be a sandbox of political intrigue, directly inspired by Game of Thrones
Alright, sounds like it has potential, but Game of Thrones was directly inspired by the real life War of the Roses between the Lancasters and the Yorks, judging by the flower name you can guess who is being set up to win the Game of Thrones. I suggest you study a bit and mix in some more inspiration, maybe use a different war.
>"I'm using Pathfinder because it's all I know. Level 1 and 15 point buy. No magic items. Core rulebook only, because I don't want any powergaming rules lawyers in my game.
Well you clearly don't know that system. It's so dependant on being high magic for every rule and game mechanic you'll never pull this off without it feeling cheap and hollow.
>"Want to join?"
Use BRP, I'll walk you through it.
>using "intrigue" "mature" "dark" "realistic" or "grim" to describe your game
why do people feel the need to make shit "realistic"?
it's a game. I'm here to have fun. I don't give a fuck about your 2deep political intrigue or hurr gritty bullshit.
I'm here to go on adventures, kill monster, solve puzzles, and make friends with my tastefully assorted party
>>47329532
You don't like poetry? What are you, one of them homos?
>>47318549
Saladin is implied (?) to have been Big Boss' real surname.
>>47331367
No it's not. It was a nickname he was given in the Middle East, apparently. Shame we didn't see any of it in MGSV.
>>47314724
>endless Grim-Dark misery and suffering = Realistic!
Rape is a pretty easy things, anyone can do it even drunk. It isn't even like cooking meth were you need supplies.
>>47322851
>Spoilers: There is never fun to be found.
Spoiler: Whenever players in my campaign get faced with timing constraints and have to chose, they drop other campaigns and stay in mine.
But I dunno, maybe they're not having fun. Maybe they're masochists and just like listening to me drabble on and on WHO KNOWS.
>>47330819
>implying
I read LotR in the nineties. Once. Then I never picked it up again. Hobbit and Silmarillion have both merited re-reads but LotR is a fucking slog.
>>47332026
Okay, Anonymous person on the internet, I believe your campaign is special. You said so, after all.:^)
>>47314617
Not really a fan of grim, gritty and realistic shit, nor am I a fan of pathfinder, but at this point I just want to play something so I'd give it a shot.
>>47332189
Just how desperate are you?
>>47314617
>Pathfinder
Nope
>>47331316
Then why the fuck did you join the game? You knew going in this was the game I'm running and nobody is forcing you to be here.
>>47332083
I'm glad you overcame your inferiority complex long enough to realize greatness can exist outside of you.
Bantz aside though, what exactly are you hoping to gain here? You're not going to convince me my game is shit when my players stick around.
I'm not telling you this to brag on an anonymous internet board, I'm telling you this to help you: Next time you're stuck with no game, you don't have to turn down an offer as soon as you hear "sandbox." Who knows? You might have a magical experience!
Or if you prefer DMing, I am telling you: Sandbox games can be run good. I have done it. Reply to my post with that stupid
>challenge accepted
image and try running one, even if it fails, you'll learn some things you can use in your regular campaign.
>>47324975
>>47324717
GoT isn't even that violent compared to any other work of fantasy. It's just that he's really good at prose and describes absolutely everything with the same amount of detail. Most chapters, especially in the early books, it's pages and pages of clothes, embroidery and people remembering stuff, then you transition from that but with someone seeing a dead body or something and you describe that as vividly as before and it's a bit intense at times.
Since every chapter is told in the first person too the tone can vary depending on who's chapter it is. Basically every Theon chapter is him being a moody arrogant dick wrestling with daddy issues who slams a bunch of loose women and prostitutes and then there's the Tyrion chapters with him doing political maneuvering and getting blown by Shae at the end of every chapter and that's basically the tone of the entire show. Other characters like Jaime, Sansa and Jon are way different and far better in my opinion.
I tend to plan a session ahead reacting on the fly based on the world for everything else (and the planning too I suppose). As I don't know where my players are going, and meta-plots develop over time based off their actions.
Does this mean all of my games are sandboxes?
>>47329532
>shit taste: the post
>>47332040
read it again
if you thought it was boring the first time, especially if you read it when you were a kid, it's often much better on a re-read
>>47334600
Then it has failed as a piece of consumable media.
>>47333111
>Sandbox games can be run good. I have done it.
I know shitty GMs tend to be *extremely* defensive over their poor GMing, but I believe it was acknowledged way back in >>47316131 how they "can" be ran well; run it like a regular adventure at first, then open things up and ask players wat do.
At which point it's not really a sandbox anymore and is just kind of a regular game because most games are not railroads from start to finish.
Which is part of why "sandbox" is always a warning sign; they imply laziness and little more, because they usually don't feel like making any real context. Every regular game just makes use of "sandbox" techniques in the regular course of play.
>>47334955
By a very narrow interpretation of reader response critical theory? Arguably. All I know is, I read LotR when I was very young and I couldn't get into it at all. It was a mercenary effort to get through, and I was relieved when I realized the last few pages were all appendices.
However, when I reread it a few years later, after having read and enjoyed the Hobbit, I was surprised to find it was much more readable. It wasn't that reading the Hobbit made reading LotR that much more bearable (although it was nice to be able to connect some of the dots when they namedrop people like Glóin), it was something more substantial than that. I found the story much more entertaining, and it was easier to read somehow, too.
I honestly think it simply had something to do with attention span: when I read it at first, I didn't have the patience with literature that I did when I reread the book. I've shared this experience on here a couple of times, and usually there are a handful of people who shared similar experiences of reading it too young at first. I thoroughly enjoyed my re-read, so I highly recommend that you give the books another shot. I'm glad I did.
>>47330903
>As a part of Littlefinger's schemes, where's his comeuppance?
In the books, the only (arguably) evil thing Littlefinger has done is betray Ned, and despite what Varys says, there's no real evidence Littlefinger's actions weren't intended to unify the kingdom behind the Lannisters.Lyssa didn't deserve him telling her he never loved her, but it was necessary to make sure Sansa knew his loyalties lay with her departed mother.
We don't know what his endgame is.
>>47315014
>nobody's stupid enough to play 3.5/PF
If only.
>>47318596
yes i#ve looked into it and will be using the ranger archetpe that does not use spells but "tricks", seems to be a pretty good fit.
>>47314617
>Sandbox
My players think every campaign we've ever run has been a sandbox.
They've never even stepped a foot off the rails
>>47336048
I thought i was alone
>>47335036
Fair play. This enforced anonymity makes it hard to know who replies where to whom.
>>47332425
Very
>>47318873
>don't talk to me or my daughter ever again
>>47321840
Have you not been commissioning actual parachutes made of gold? What are you, a baron?
>>47335134
>We don't know what his endgame is.
Become considered a cool, tough guy and nail the daughter of that woman who never really loved him.
>>47314617
I'm a newfag to this board, so i'm just going to take a stab in the dark and say no?
>>47314617
> Low Level
> Pathfinder Core
> No magic items
Yes i'll be the one Wizard in your entire country and shit on all combat and social encounters.
>>47346179
Enjoy getting one-shotted at level 1.
>>47346241
>Standing in front of party members as a low level Wizard.
Surely your jesting me, meat shields exist for a reason.
>>47318014
>>47318712
I did some thinking and reading, and you can also do it with IKRPG. Big Boss's starting professions are soldier and ranger, pick up spy when you qualify for a third. Mercenary companies(PMCs)are also noted as being an extremely common thing in the setting.
>>47346271
>That moment when you show up and everyone had the exact same idea that you had.
Do you just roll to see who steps in front at that point or what?the game is now entirely about the politics of a group of wizards in a low magic setting trying to work to grow more powerful while simultaneously getting their companions conveniently murdered by other things so that the lone survivor can be the strongest.
>>47346345
> Politics of who stands in front in a party of Wizards
SHIT WE'VE BEEN HAD! THIS WAS THE DMS PLOT ALL ALONG! QUICK ROB THE RICH WITH OUR DAILY SLEEP SPELLS SO WE CAN HIRE MEATSHIELDS.
>>47323724
No, Pathfinder can be fun if you just ignore most of the rules and have blinders to the deep flaws to the system. Any group playing Pathfinder would have more fun invested into another system.
>>47346414
So, exactly like 90% of systems that /tg/ cant get enough of.
Just fyi, gurpsfags, using the lite rule set does not make your clunky piece of shit better than pathfinder.
>>47346487
Enjoy not being able to move and attack.
>>47314647
>Mature 17+
>>47346661
What.
>>47346271
>>47346345
How else are you using Color Spray?
>>47315014
>Which is so exaggerated, nobody's stupid enough to play 3.5/PF *core only* in this day and age.
Same nigger wanted us to refrain from using magic characters in Shadowrun, I assure you, people are THAT retarded.
>>47347909
After taking a move action.
Step one A: Fiddle with initiative/refocus/held actions until the order is:
badguys->you->fighter or
you->fighter->badguys or
fighter->badguys->you
Step one B: Bad guys do whatever (If they go before me)
Step two: Move up and Color Spray
Step three: If any of them are still standing, the Fighter moves between you and them.
>>47335134
>assassinating someone isn't arguably evil
I guess it's okay because joffrey was also evil, sort of? He was a dick, but by GRRM standards he isn't anything special.Lyssa's death may have furthered his goals, but that doesn't excuse the fact that he came into someone's home with the expressed goal of marrying them and then killed them.
>>47344943
So, his own personal beta uprising?
>>47330903
Littlefinger will get his, don't you worry.
Qyburn too. Remember that he's a bit character who has only been around for 1-2 books.
Cersei had all that stuff happen, is also on trial with a death sentence, had her son die, her daughter get her face fucked up, got spurned by her twin brother and lover, her father murdered, and lives in constant fear of her little brother hiding in the walls.
Her story is going to end with getting killed by Jaime after Robert Strong wins her her freedom and she goes apeshit.
Tywin also had Tyrion's wife gang-raped by ALL OF HIS Men in front of him , while convincing Tyrion that she never actually loved him and that she was a whore that they hired to pretend to love him.
Then he made Tyrion rape her, too.
>>47352794
His goal was only to secure Sansa's marriage to the third string kid who would become heir to The Vale one the sickly kid inevitably ate it.
He killed Lyssa because she was going psycho and threatening his plans.
>>47315896
RuneQuest 6
