I have a gun. It shoots bullets.
What can the bullets do to have an increased effect on a regular human sized target that may or may not be armored, considering that "make them very very fast and very very armor piercing" is most likely not enough of an effect?
>>47157230
Yes bolter rounds
>>47157230
Why don't you ask /k/?
Phosphorous Rounds, bruv
Hollow point - increased effectiveness against unarmored opponents. Incendiary - Same deal. Armor piercing - less effective against unarmored opponents (Bullets zip right through, which actually causes minimal damage) good against, you guessed it, armored opponents. Armor Piercing Incendiary, best of both worlds. Used mainly in anti-vehicle for obvious reasons.
Bigger caliber also doesn't equal better, we actually downgraded after WW2 from 30-06 to 5.56. The 30-06 was going straight through, so unless you hit something vital a killshot wasn't 100%. 5.56, through the magic of ballistics, likes to bounce around one it hits a body. If you get shot in the leg, it could very well come out your neck.
>>47157547
>bouncing bullets meme
Ah, I missed you.
>>47157230
Get bigger bullets.
Get more bullets.
Get Raufoss rounds.
Do all three.
Apply liberally to target.
Make sure to bring a buddy. Make sure he has a gun. Preferably bring more than one buddy.
>>47157230
Have you tried magic bullets?
>>47157791
Of course. But I'm afraid we're each talking different kind of magic here.
>>47157230
Weld tiny copper arms onto the bullet and arm it with a sword and shield.
Spinning is a good trick.
>>47157450
They don't deal with fiction.
>>47157230
Magdump
If that doesn't stop whatever you're trying to kill then no snowflake bullet is going to work and it's time to fuck off.
>>47158250
You know, that is actually a really good assessment of firearms design.
Body armour -> magdump, kill
Tank -> magdump, no kill, develope anti-tank rifle/shoulder fired launcher
Etc.
shotguns
The spread on an un-choked shotgun is 30in at 40 yards. Plus, you can load the shells with damn near anything, confetti, sardines, deer semen, you name it. Vampires? load a blank round and put a wooden dowel in the barrel. It is really the modern blunderbuss.
>>47157230
I'll speak on the behalf of /k/
Expanding bullets, exploding tips, or krautmagic meme bullets (google kh g11) can help you much.
>>47158749
I gotta ask
What happens if you turn a vampire into cheese with normal bullets? say 100 holes of 7.62×54mm
>>47157547
The bullets only bounced when the round was first introduced with the M16. The round has since then changed with the rifle, which means that it doesn't bounce anymore.
Tl;dr: do your research you amateur.
>>47158840
How does caseless ammo make you kill stuff more? Just by being able to carry more ammo?
Highly reactive metal instead of lead?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhbWfhBDNzk
>>47158853
Well, 7.62x54r DID come in silver tip once, not sure it it was actual silver...but probably not much if it's a traditional vampire. If you're using an obrez, catch it on fire
>>47158749
>>47157230
>What can the bullets do to have an increased effect on a regular human sized target that may or may not be armored
make them fire larger rounds?
honestly, if the target's not armored, then in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't matter what kind of rounds you fire, it's going be lethal. Even a .22 can kill you if that's the shooter's intention. Now if you want to fire a round that has the best chance of killing your target on the first shot it's going to be just about anything that's a .45 or bigger, not saying the smaller rounds aren't lethal, just that there is a greater chance of surviving a shot from a smaller round.
magic boolets.
R.i.P. bullets
Bullets that break into sharp ass shrapnel and spread out for maximum collateral damage.
>>47157450
Is that a glorious Mosin-nagant 7.62x54R rifle, Comrade?
>>47158955
Exactly, and one can imagine the velocity and added lethality if we had poured enough time into this type of ammo.
>>47157230
Put zombie powder in the hollow cup of the bullet.
Your target goes down, then gets back up and starts eating his friends.
>>47158968
Highly reactive metals are really soft, generally, and would probably just explode in the barrel.
>>47157230
Best would be metamaterials for bullets and/or advanced shapes. Hollow points, depleted uranium, those little shrapnel fuckers that look like hollow points with petals making up the bullet. Shit like that.
>>47159700
The video shows a few examples actually working, although weird engineering is a far cry from practical weaponry, I'll acknowledge that.
>>47157547
5.56
aka .223
slightly and i mean very slightly bigger than the .22 cal round (with longer bullet and more powder of coarse) which is by and large seen a a plinking or varmit round by anyone who knows anything about guns as it lacks stopping power and range. longer bullet and more powder only addresses its range issues but doesn't add enough to its stopping power to make a real difference against anything but armor. the .223 dose proform well against Outdated kevlar designs as it is small and very very fast, concentrating the striking force on a much smaller area and ripping through. what kills is the temporary wound cavity created as the round bullys the flesh out of the way by imparting its force and consequently slowing down.
now the 7.62 or .308 round is a wonderful manslayer round. full metal jacket rounds stay together and tumble upon striking bone or light armor. this tumbling causes an eratic and chaotic temporary wound cavity even if the bullet stays in one piece. it's balistically stable out to 900 yards, dropping only 14 inches or so on average, assuming you didn't buy crap ammo. i've used both FMJ and ballistic silvertip (acts like hollow point but better ballistics) on whitetail deer and the internal damage was... well way overkill. but i hate making things suffer so i'll ruin a little meat to end it's pain ASAP. anywho the point is that slimmer rounds at high speeds punch through like a needle while wider rounds, even moving slower, cause damage to flesh they never touch via the temp wound cavity, because they impart more kinetic energy to the target before exiting. this is true fore all (non-exploding) kinetic kill rounds... to a point. if they have to much energy behind the bullet it can simply punch a needle hole and impart very little of it's energy. the key is to find the right round for the job so you impart as much of the rounds energy to the target, thus hopefully killing the shit out of it. hope this helps.
>>47159372
>Noguns confirmed.
>>47157230
Depleted uranium is really what you're looking for since the traditional answer to your question is either bigger bullets, or bullets moving faster.
DU is reasonably good at penetrating armor, breaks up into fragments, and can strike against itself to catch fire.
And then there's the heavy metal poisoning.
>>47157230
>tfw no napalm rounds mentioned
>>47159366
I love you /tg/ but watching you try to talk about guns is always deeply unpleasant.
>>47158840
fucking don't
>>47161997
>filename not 'high int, low wis'
>>47162110
Here, fixed it for you anon
>ctrl + f "hollow point"
good.
>>47157938
This comment works on multiple levels and I love it.
Watch a few Steven Seagal movies, see some real operator shit.
Do you think mods would care if I posted some stuff?
>not responsible if this makes your gun jam and gets you killed
>>47158085
You're wrong
>>47157230
Deform and or change trajectory after impact in a way that makes the wound bigger or increases the chance to hit vitals
>>47158955
More Dakka because you don't have to waste time ejecting brass
>>47157230
In order to increase killyness you want the bullet to expand (that is deform in a way that increases it's surface) tumble (because if it doesn't go straight it goes through more tissue so there is more bloodloss and a higher chance to hit vitals) and fragment (more but smaller wound channels mean a higher chance to hit vitals) after impact.
Everything that makes Bullets deform tumble or fragment decreases it's effectiveness against armor.
Armor Piercing Incendiary (API) is your best allround-round round.
>>47162058
I fucking do.
Get lost filthy nogunz
>>47159014
I think silver tip is AP.
My buddy had a can with some and it tore up a hardened steel plate that usually handled rifle rounds fine.
>>47164601
It's has a milled steel core, not true AP but is harder than lead and softer than (AP) steel.
>>47157547
Being in the Canadian army, I can tell you guys that our c7 and choice of 5.56 is to not kill the enemy, but to take them out of fighting shape. Kill one and there's one down, wound one and then his buddies or medics have to take him back, multiple enemies out of the fight.
Atleast, thats the idea
>>47165014
>Being in the Canadian army, I can tell you guys that our c7 and choice of 5.56 is to not kill the enemy, but to take them out of fighting shape
>"wound-not-kill" meme
Why?
You use itty-bitty boolits because it's better to carry a lighter gun with less recoil and more little boolits than a heavy gun with heavy boolits that have power you probably don't need. The krauts and ruskies found this out in ww2.
If your bullets are causing more wounding than kills (I don't have that data so I don't know) than its a product of small bullets and not being allowed to use bullets that aren't vanilla FMJ. Also, how often does a gunshot to anything but the head instantly kill someone instead of dropping them and bleeding them? If it's not a vital like the heart, even that could take a while.
>>47165137
>inb4 ".30 Carbine can't penetrate chink winter coats"
>>47165014
Your unit has failed in the education of its soldiers. Shame. Shame.
>>47159014
I thought silver was traditionally the bane of werewolves not vampires though I wouldn't be surprised if I was wrong.
Factcheck me pls /tg/
Werewolves
>Silver
>Fire (I think?)
>As vulnerable as anyone else when not transformed
>Cannot transform outside of nighttime with a visible full moon in the sky
Vampires
>Inability to cross running water
>Inability to cross thresholds without invitation
>Inability to cross rings of salt
>Cannot enter consecrated sites (churches & temples, graveyards)
>No reflection in mirrors
>Sunlight
>Holy water
>Holy icons (95% time a crucifix?)
>Garlic
>Wooden stake hammered through the heart
I'm nearly certain I'm mixing up some of this.
>>47165154
Pretty sure anything more powerful than a gangbanger's HiPoint 9mm is going to penetrate a winter coat. I'm not sure where you're going with that.
>>47157230
Bullets are pretty damn effective at killing and maiming humans as they are now. You want them to be more lethal, so you just make the guns more accurate, make the projectile bigger and faster. Once you reached the maximum in those aspects, you can start to modify the projectile through miniaturization. Small arms with SLAP, APHEI, HEAT rounds would probably be pretty effective. But for now we're still at accurizing guns and finding the best calibers.
>>47165014
Div and unit faggot,
>>47165014
That's a lot of horseshit. Guns are designed to kill not to wound. 5.56 fragment and causes massive wound cavities, much worse than a 7.62 FMJ round would do. 5.45 rounds tumble like crazy and also do terrible wounds in living tissue. Switching to a lighter caliber was mainly done to increase the ammo capacity of the individual soldier and to increase a rifleman's squad firepower massively by being able to fire a high volume of deadly projectiles.
>>47165180
No, you're right with those Anon. They're what I learnt as the "traditional" weaknesses at any rate
>>47165251
That ring of salt one I might be confusing with demons. Honestly I'm not sure how much of this is half remembered Buffy The Vampire Slayer episodes rather than Bram Stoker etc.
>>47158085
they actually do and on generally good terms with /tg/ for the purpose of asking these kinds of question - it'll make a change from the weirdos who come in and try to "improve" rifling or another f-35 thread.
>>47157230
Sniper rifle with tachyon bullets.
Totally silent cause the bullets hit the guy before the gun goes off.
>>47165424
technically a tachyon bullet would have to be inserted into the target's chest, and then a sniper would have to carefully aim to catch the tachyon bullet that explodes out of the target's chest with their gun.
>>47157791
NO JOKE, I bought mine 12 years ago and it still fucking works like new, thanks TV-guy.
>Mother bought her own because the MAGIC fucking BULLET "didn't do the job".
>It breaks after 2 months.
>Magic Bullet.
>>47168081
Errata:
>Mother bought her own mixer that wasn't a Magic Bullet.
>It broke after 2 months.
Magic Bullet still works after 12 years of magic.
>>47158955
look up the "american 180" You can defeat ablative armor with volume of fire.
a benefit would be to define your setting, thus giving room for what a "bullet" can do.
Furthermore, what is the level of access to these items your character in mind has?
Shit. you want something dead? Thermobarics. We used them in gulf war 1. They explode so big, bright, and hot, British satellites detected them as nuclear detonations.
Even on the small scale like a SMAW they are brutal.
http://www.defensetech.org/2005/11/14/marines-quiet-about-brutal-new-weapon/
http://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/smaw.htm
now take that and downsize it again into this: XM25
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RkOhwhtXdU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-7L0Frj6vQ
...good times.
>>47169707
Thermobaric weapons are especially popular in Russia. The West has generally found the a bit too nasty for battlefields. In confined spaces the combination of burning vapor and rapid changes in pressure effectively destroy the lungs, resulting in a painful death from internal burns.
>>47169707
>Thermobarics. We used them in gulf war 1. They explode so big, bright, and hot, British satellites detected them as nuclear detonations
Isn't that kinda overkill to drop Ahmed and Omar with their AKs?
>>47163707
>>47158955
The unfortunate flipside of caseless, and one of the major obstacles to adapting the ammo, aside from the german tendency to design weapon systems that function excellently everywhere except the real world, is that the ejected brass carries away a lot of the waste heat from firing, so caseless guns heat up, and then overheat, much faster than a gun firing conventional rounds.
The other issue I've seen is that that brass is waterproof. The propellant isn't, and in high-humidity enviroments/after getting wet caseless ammo won't feed properly because it swells. This might be a superior german engineering problem though.
>>47162689
if you are using a revolver it should be fine
people have been making homemade hollowpoints since they were invented.
>>47170360
gulf war 1 was against sadam, he had actual soldiers, tanks, and aircraft.
>>47169901
It's not that we find them nasty they just don't fit into our doctrine outside of use on entrenched positions. We don't use rocket/missile launchers as anti-personnel any more unlike the Russians.
>>47170596
And a decently respectable army at that. Granted, they got pasted, but everyone expected more of a challenge at the time.
>>47157230
>What can the bullets do to have an increased effect on a regular human sized target that may or may not be armored
Soft point, hollow point, spoon tip, irregular density. Pretty much change the shape or weight of the bullet at points to induce yawing.
>>47165014
>This amount of horseshit
5.56 is still used because it's lighter to carry, which means more ammo, which means more shots. In urban combat you need lots of ammo for suppression as very rarely will you be going for a well aimed kill shot. You keep the other guy's head down so your buddy can flank, kill him with a grenade, or call in an airstrike because you're a first world military who can just bomb the fucker with a drone being piloted by a guy in Alabama. And 5.56 can still horribly wound/kill. Don't believe me? Google "5.56 bullet wounds" with safe search off and see how it looks. Smaller bullets don't "bounce" inside the body either, they're just smaller. They cause death by causing a cavity to form and then immediately collapsing, as shown in this pic of ballistic gel. You can claim "lel 5.56 a shit, it's so teeny tiny" but if you had a fist sized cavity like that form in your chest you're gonna fucking die unless you're really lucky or very close to a field hospital.
In addition, if 5.56 was so shit, why on earth did the Russians decide to adopt an equivalent round in 5.45x39 to replace the "superior" 7.62x39 AK round, the 5.45x39 round being a round that's even smaller than the 5.56? These rounds are high velocity, low recoil, have better body armor penetration, and are cheaper. It's a win/win/win situation. The only thing larger rounds are good for are LMG's and marksmen rifles, the former for penetration, the latter for long range accuracy (a heavier bullet is less likely to go "squirelly" at range due to wind resistance)
Your entire post proves you're full of shit, either because of shit training (highly unlikely) or you're some neckbeard posting from your mom's basement spouting /k/ memes.
>>47165387
okay I'm not a firearms engineer but wouldn't rifling that extreme be stripped rather than cause better twist on the bullet? I can't imagine the thing taking its sweet time spinning four times to every half inch rather than once every six inches.
>>47157230
Non-armoured: frangibles.
Armoured: how big is your gun? If it's less "gun" and more "cannon", consider a shaped charge.
>>47165014
>Being in the Canadian army
>proceeds to spurt out bullshit information with no factual basis
kek son
