Dark Souls LORE THREAD
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Dark Souls Lore Thread: Traditional Gaming Edition.
Please feel free to discuss any theories, speculations or ask any questions you may have about any of the souls games in the trilogy.
For the purpose of: Inspiration, stealing material, narrative or just because you don't understand anything/understand EVERYTHING and need to get it out of your system.
>>47155183
Who the best girl?
>>47155196
the eyes waxed one ^^
>>47155196
The Doll.
![tumblr_nm9g8g1RX01setbe4o1_500[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/d2Ywedk.jpg "tumblr nm9g8g1RX01setbe4o1 500[1]")
>>47155196
>Who the best girl?
The Doll.
>>47155183
I am going to say that I would NOT be a fan of a Dark Souls tabletop RPG. Really, all the interesting things to do in the game world have already been done.
I would, however, love a good tabletop game that tries to capture the feel of Dark Souls while still doing its own thing.
>>47155447
There was that Sci-Fi Dark Souls a little while back, with a lot of the basic ideas and themes carried over but everyone was robots and humanity was extinct.
>>47155447
>a good tabletop game that tries to capture the feel of Dark Souls while still doing its own thing
Nechronica, in a wider sense of "good"
>>47155387
>>47155394
DOLL IS TALL
>>47155500
The Doll is love.
The Doll is Life.
>>47155520
Doll isn't even best girl though.
Truly Bloodborne is Miyazaki's masterpiece.
>>47155447
>all the interesting things to do in the game world have already been done.
I don't know, there's some stuff that hasn't been explored yet. The Souls games only cover a very narrow type of time period--the end of an Age of Fire. Tooling around in an Age of Darkness, Age of the Deep, or Age of Ancients campaign could be interesting. Plus, there are some interesting lore tidbits that could be spun into campaign material. For instance, what's up with Gertrude, the Angels, and the Winged Knights? And why are the Winged Knights so fucking fat?
>>47155670
The Problem is a lot of what makes Dark Souls great is the mystery surrounding those things.
If you expand on the setting too much, you destroy it. At least, that's my opinion.
>>47155670
>what's up with Gertrude
Out of all the fucking things in Dark Souls 3 there's two things I still know next to nothing about despite them being mentioned constantly:
-FUCKING GERTRUDE. LITERALLY WHO
-THE PROFANED FLAME.
>>47155695
>If you expand on the setting too much, you destroy it. At least, that's my opinion.
True, though the Artorias and Crown Trilogy DLCs were pretty good about it. They answered some questions but potentially left the player with even more.
>>47155670
>why are the Winged Knights so fat
because LOL BERSERK IS SO BASED CHECK OUT THIS SICK REFERENCE BRO HURR DURR. pretty much 60% of Miyazaki's designs are like that.
>>47155196
Shanalotte was adorable, especially when you could see her kicking her feet when she was sitting down.
>>47155196
HERALD A BESTE
everyone else a shit
>>47155730
Quentin, pls. Don't you have movies to make?
>>47155744
Seek, seek, lest.
>>47155748
maybe I do...
>>47155196
Maiden in Black, easily.Bonus points for likely being the mother of the BBEG
>>47155196
>Who the best girl?
If speculation is to be believed: Shanalotte.
Rumor circulate that the Cursed Undead from DS2 ended up marrying/breeding with Shanalotte to originally produce the line of Lothrics up to Ocerius, the consumed king.
>>47155608
FAKE
A
K
E
Is there anybody more badass than Pontiff Sulyvahn? Dude took over the Knights of the Darkmoon and the church surrounding Gwyndolin. He manipulated a Lord of Cinder. He combined the moon miracles of Gwyndolin with his own sorcery and the pyromancy of the Profaned Flame which is either an ever burning fire from Yhorm's Linking gone wrong, the Old Chaos beneath Eleum Loyce or simultaneously both of those things. Oh, and he grew the six wings of the Storytellers in phase two so he somehow harnessed those pseudo-miracles as well. He also managed to confine Yorksha but I don't know if that was actually hard given how little we know about her.
Dude is the closest thing we have to an outright villain in the series.
>>47155846
>Is there anybody more badass than Pontiff Sulyvahn
The Ashen One kicked his ass, so the answer is yes.
>>47155701
Take a look at the cage she was trapped in and all those feathers strewn about. Then take a look at all those feathers strewn about in the Twin Princes boss arena. They must have done some terrible things to that woman in the pursuit of juicing Lothric up and that must have been the source of his crazy resurrection magic. There is also some speculation that Gertrude was a descendant of Gwynevere. We just don't have any idea what the fuck the Angels were.
We see a statue of a Primordial Serpent hanging around and I thought that he was depicted with angel wings but that just turned out to be sweet shoulder pads for the robe with empty sleeves he was wearing. Also, that statue of the drippy looking guy. Was that Aldia? Or did the First Scholar just cover himself head to toe in wax.
>>47155447
Well, here's my proposal for such a game.
The game would be set in a Humans only fantasy world. About 2,000 years before the campaign starts the world was consumed by Elemental Frost. The Gods appeared first and with the aid of the Dragons drove back the endless darkness and cold. However, the Dragons coveted the power of the gods, so the gods plotted against them and sealed them away, thus began the Age of Gods.
In this age; the gods were physical beings who walked among the people and ruled them directly. The Gods reigned for a thousand years, sending their kingdoms to war with one another. However, about 800 years before the campaign starts, a great cataclysm rocked the human kingdoms that the gods seemed powerless to prevent. Most of the human kingdoms were devastated and all but one was over-run by legions of Demons. The Age of Gods came to an end when the gods disappeared and the demons retreated for unknown reasons.
Today, there is only one human kingdom left. Its borders are sealed by a high wall. The world outside is a hostile wilderness of overgrown ruins, vile monsters, demons and the undead. Worse, the world is about to end. Its whispered that the Eternal Winter is returning, as the northern reaches have seen their summers grow shorter with each passing year.As you might have guessed, the power that the gods used to drive back the Eternal Winter is fading. The Demons and he cataclysm t were birthed from a failed attempt by the goddess of magic to rekindle the power. In the end, the gods sacrificed themselves to keep it burning, but now even that power is starting to fade.
>>47155701
There are a few different schools of thought as to what the Profaned Flame is. School A says that because Yhorm had no humanity, the Capital just exploded like how Gwyn exploded when he linked the flame and wrecked the kiln. The other takes the idea that there was an order of Oracles hanging about responsible for the flame to mean that the Proflame was the Old Chaos but different from it for some reason?
What I want to know is what the fuck were those hand monsters in the Profaned Capital! Jesus. Its like if a Manus Hand replaced the head of one of the Dark Souls 2 trolls.
>>47155726
Miyazaki loves his references. However, I am really surprised by the number of references to Western media in this game.
Such as the "Totally not Jon Snow, I swear" armor set. The one that really surprised me was that he included expies of the Broo from Runequest! Was Runequest even RELEASED in Japanese?
>>47156030
>Such as the "Totally not Jon Snow, I swear" armor set.
It's just the Llewellyn Set from Dark Souls 2 ya dink.
>>47156078
>Game of Thrones TV series premiered in 2011
>Dark Souls 3 came out in 2014.
Yep, no influence whatsoever.
>>47156555
>Dark Souls 3 came out in 2014.
I meant to type Dark Souls 2. Dark Souls 2 came out in 2014.
Fucking typos.
>>47155914
Yeah this is a question that's been bothering me. Who is the goo man statue in Lothric?
>>47155914
>Was that Aldia?
DS2 isn't canon.
>>47156716
>DS2 isn't canon.
I don't understand where people keep coming to this conclusion.
DS2 just took place in a different country- it's still canon.
>>47156792
cry more, butthurt B-Team babby
>>47156870
>Giant Tree right outside Firelink
>Numerous weapons and armor from DS2
>Mentions of a far-off country named "Drang"
By all means, keep trolling, but we all know you're wrong, bro.
>>47155196
doll>MIB>fire keeper=emerald
Been reading Pinwheels lore
Shits pretty fucked, if I do so say.
Or rather, the theories people come up with for it.
>>47156916
He is being a jerk in saying that DS2 isn't canon, but he is right in that DS3 largely ignores 2.
The DLC content of DS1 has left a huge impact on everything since, everything Artorias and Manus related stems from that DLC, shaping the plot of DS2 (Nashandra) and DS3 (Abyss Watchers).
But Basically nothing that happened in DS2 mattered. The Throne of Want? More like the "Throne of What?" The crowns, which were a huge deal in the DS2 DLC, are not even mentioned. Aldia likewise never gets a mention, despite being an entity that would presumably last beyond his own cycle, since he was part of the bonfires.
Maybe we will get more of a connection when the DLC for 3 comes around, but as of right now we are in a weird situation where only a few token references admit DS2 was even a thing, meanwhile shit from DS1 is all over the place despite presumably being much, MUCH older.
>>47157632
>>47156916
>>47156870
>>47156792
It's extremely subtle and I don't want to get into it at the moment(because I'm catching up on Game of thrones)but there are numerous connection to DS2 and DS3.
One thing I noticed the other day during my 3rd character/playthrough of dark souls 3:
The Giant Archer at the top of the tower has a hole for a face: It's VERY easy to miss, so I circled it and pointed an arrow at it for your convenience, but it's there.
He has a hole in his face.
>>47157824
>he doesn't know giant faces are actually just normal humanoid faces
>he doesn't know that the hole face giants are Hollows
>he doesn't know that the "holes" are their Darksigns
>>47155196
She's not even in the list.
>>47157915
Anon, a corpse should be well left alone...
huh, so the hole in giants' faces are their darksign huh?
That makes a bit of sense for Dark Souls 2's giants.
>>47157632
True, there are few tangible connections as of yet, but there are some points where traces, like the filaments of spider webs, can be seen.
You make mention of the Crowns, for instance. What do they do? They allow one to exist outside the curse of undeath, or at least, to negate the effects of Hollowing. What's one of the earliest qualities of note about the Ashen One as well as all other Unkindled? They don't Hollow--they have to be branded with a dark sigil in order for this to occur. Perhaps whatever power is in the crowns has been spread across the world and taken up residence in a new form, much like the Dark Soul itself?
Of course, we'll have wait for the DLC to make any final judgments, but the simple fact that FROM has acknowledged DS2's existence seems to me like they're planning something for it all.
>>47157884
No, no, I buy into that theory completely.
If anything I think that's what Yhorm is supposed to represent: He is an unhollowed giant who is BECOMING hollowed.
-We can see Yhorm's fully humanoid face and that's the point.
-Yhorm's face is starting to disappear and sink into itself to an unnatural degree.
-Yhorm is in the "process" of hollowing sort to speak. Most likely due to all the shit he's had to deal with.
>>47158007
How do you think she would react if the AO like, kissed her or something?
>>47157949
>>47157991
Surely a compromise can be reached ?
>>47158040
That depends...chaste kiss or full tongue invasion?
>>47158058
Chaste
then invasion
>>47158040
Kissthe darkness inside her ?
>>47158092
I often wonder the same thing with the Harold
I imagine she'd just be like 'FUCKING FINALLY.'
The Doll would be confused
>>47155183
What is the Profaned Flame? It can't be the flame of chaos, because the game goes to pains to express that it's dead and thus resigned demons to extinction.
>>47158143
Doesn't she have her eyes gouged out, though? She's somehow blind, anyway, right?
>>47158156
I think its suppose to be, she can see, but not see like, the world around her. She sees it without flame. Or something like that.
>>47158171
Whether it was intentional or not, that little too-wide opening of her eyes is such a perfect little bit of characterization.
>>47158113
>The Doll would be confused
Kissing is too forward, you should headpat the doll first.
>Oh, good hunter, what is the meaning of this?
>My apologies, I didn't mean you to stop.
![046a7a35acb844a13194654b6865ce62[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/4KqGPpd.png "046a7a35acb844a13194654b6865ce62[1]")
>>47158113
>>47158092
>>47158088
>>47158058
>>47158040
My big dumb gay head canon is that the DARKNESS ENDING is basically the firekeeper and the chosen undead settling down in the darkness together:The Darkness binds them and in the Darkness they SMOOCH.
I had been uninterested in the firekeeper, but her single moment of vulnerability asking if you can still hear her voice stirred something in me.
>>47155670
>Age of Ancients
There's literally nothing, anon. The point of that age is that there's nothing but eternal stasis. Eternal Dragons sitting around doing nothing all day while hollows crawl in the shadows, mindless, unthinking, unacting, until the First Flame sprung into existence, they were drawn to it, and time became a concept.
>>47155183
What is the Age of the Deep, and how does it differ from the normal Age of Dark?
>>47158051
This is all kinds of wrong, but damn if it isn't cute.
>>47155701
Gertrude is said to be the Queen's daughter (no idea if she's Oceiros' or a child the Queen arrived in Lothric with), who was a holy maiden and priestess. Then she was visited by the 'angels' and grew wings. The angel statues depict a Primordial Serpent with a human lower body and wings for arms, so it's probably Kaathe and his ilk being cunts again. However, this Angel worship is said to have been a heresy, for which she was locked up for with the heretical scholars Oceiros had sought out to try and help him produce a worthy heir, who are even implied to have maybe raped her. So that's pretty much what we know about her.
>>47158277
You know what, I can get behind that
I got a lot of questions.
What happened with Alva? Why did he invade? What's his whole deal?
Why are all the enemies so much bigger than the player and npc's?
What's the deal with the corvians? And the maggot people? And those goat things? What are they, where'd they come from?Why is the firekeeper so perfectly cute?
>>47158345
>What is the Age of the Deep
I hope to Gwyn that the Age of the Deep heralds the start of a golden age of Dark Sails.
>>47158277
Vulnerable firekeepers are to be cherished.
>>47158006
The Crowns, when put together, form up to become something that looks aaaaawfully like the DS3 Firekeeper's mask.
I think the reason the Unkindled exist is because of this connection of the Crowns to the Bonfires via the Firekeepers. In the opening cinematic we see her picking it up and putting it on, so we can infer that there may have been other Firekeepers to wear it before her.
>>47158429
Dark Souls could produce some fucked up deep sea monsters.
>>47158405
>Why are all the enemies so much bigger than the player and npc's?
The implication throughout the series has been more souls/more powerful souls = larger physical form. This doesn't happen to the player character for obvious gameplay reasons, but it could be slow process for all we know. Or, put another way, a more powerful soul needs a stronger vessel to contain it, and the player's form is already strong enough because they're that badass.
>>47158345
>What is the Age of the Deep, and how does it differ from the normal Age of Dark?
The Deep is something originally prophesized by Aldrich: in his dreams he foresaw an age of the deep- an age of the deep sea. This inspired him to consume the gods in an effort to grow and survive this upcoming age of water and "deep".
The Deep for lack of more information seems to be some sort of ADVANCED. DARKNESS. That is beyond humanity and human's traditional understanding of the abyss.
The Abyss or the Darkness is tied to Humanity and the original Dark Soul and all these hexes n' shit we've become inordained with.
The Deep on the other hand seems to have some connection with soul stagnation, the deepest parts of humanity and the bedrock of the earth?
>>47158405
>Why are all the enemies so much bigger than the player and npc's?
Power appears to just be a quick visual representation that your enemy is extremely powerful.
>What's the deal with the corvians? And the maggot people? And those goat things? What are they, where'd they come from?
Corvians appear to be the twisted descendants of the Painted World's crow people. The maggot people may have been Rosaria followers who got remade a few too many times IIRC. The goat things are Ghru, descendants of the acolytes of Farron Keep who have been twisted by the corruption in the area. I still have no fucking clue how they killed all the mushroom people.
>>47155822
Nice fanfic
>>47158345
The Age of Dark is the age of Man (albeit a Man stripped of the positive aspects of the Light as well as its negative, perhaps Age of Hollows would be a better way to describe it), whereas the Age of Deep would be the age of the Abyss.
While Dark is connected to Humanity normally, the Abyss is what you might consider the twisted aspects of that. To get an image of what that might look like, think about how fucked up Oolacile was.
>>47158466
The Deep comes across as something alien, like it's outside of the Pygmy/Manus/Humans and their humanity, like it's the Dark Soul gone rotten or controlled by something outside of its rightful owners.
>>47158478
indeed, let me know when it comes with pictures
>>47158463
In DS1 it was implied that more HUMANITY = bigger (so stuff that ate corpses tended to grow big, large enemies were more likely to drop humanitiy items too) though souls are a factor as well.
>>47157632
Methinks it's internal politics.
>>47155196
Theyre all shit.
Finding out that dark souls not having a true "level up lady" was a fluke that will never happen again was such a disappointment.
I hate them all.
Alright playing through the first game and I keep dying to the fucking gaping maw dragon thing. The one that has half its body a toothy mess in the depths. I do not have hold for Xbox and I keep summoning solaire. Any tips or tricks? Pic incoming of stats and shit
>>47158604
I know you can't get banned for this, but I really wish you would.
>>47157632
>Aldia likewise never gets a mention
except there's direct evidence he was the tutor of Prince Lothric and the one who taught him that linking the fire was BS... but that would require you to read item descriptions and not have actual Alzheimers... too bad
>>47158604
>implying DS1 didn't have a level-up lady and that she wasn't the hottest one of all
>>47156030
Him and his dudes like berserk, but they're also dnd playing western fantasy nerds.
>>47158487
>whereas the Age of Deep would be the age of the Abyss.
The problem with this is that the game goes to great lengths to make a distinction between The Deep and The Abyss.
People know of the Abyss, The Abyss isn't some foreign thing people haven't encountered before: The Abyss is associated with hexes and so forth and The Abyss watchers and the undead legion were entirely devoted to routing out the Abyss.
The Main reason though I think The Deep is separate from the Darkness of the Abyss is due to the elemental stuff in Dark Souls 3:
-Dark Gems exist: "A gem of infused titanite. Born of disembodied humanity."
-Dark Gems are infused using the Profaned Coal which is also used for Bleed and Hollow Gems.
-The Darkness cosmologically/elementally speaking is associated with all things Human: Blood, Hollowing, Humanity.
-DEEP Gems exist separate: "A gem of infused titanite. Found in the dregs of the Cathedral of the deep. " "There is a darkness that lies beyond ken."
-Dark Gems are infused using the Sage's Coal which is also used for Blessed Gems and Crystal Gems.
-The Deep though.. Fuck if I know?? Perhaps it's a new dark element?
-Maybe Water??
Anyway, the point is: They went to the effort to make a DISTINCTION. They made them SEPARATE. There has to be something to it.
>>47157365
Normally I wouldn't go for fan theories like that because people just naturally gravitate towards whatever is creepiest, but the concept art and "I'm so sorry" in the boss music really sells those ideas to me.
>>47158474
>descendants of the acolytes of Farron Keep
they aren't demons?
they seem like super weak new demons from their presence in the smoldering lake
>>47158707
Gaping is easy, you just need to run a lot and only strike when it's safe. Also don't get caught in the goo.
What weapon are you using and is is upgraded?
>>47158616
>>47158707
Git gud faggot hells up with those stats idiot.
>>47158782
+5 Longsword
I've tried. But it seems to always just get that last hit needed to kill me. I mean I shanked the moonlight butterfly without much trouble but this guy is just fucking my day up.
>>47158113
You remember that image of all the Zeldas reacting to a love confession? I want to see that with Soulsborne waifus.
>>47155846
He also forced a minor goddess to dance for him with a super tight butt, has domesticated at least three Beasts of Darkness from Berserk, has a Stand, one of the sweetest themes and the coolest rank.
>>47158744
The Ghru item lore indicates that they were former Farron acolytes but doesn't explicitly mention demons. I wouldn't rule out the possibility that the weirdness in Smoldering Lake was a major cause of their corruption, though. Weren't Izalith's demons partly born from the corruption of its original mortal citizens anyway?
What ever happened to Kaathe and Frampt?
Are the primordial serpents still influencing and guiding people in the world?
Is Frampt an outcast serpent who wishes to aid the world while Kaathe and the others seek darkness to descend upon the land such as in Oolacile and New Londo?
>>47158872
Judging by all the serpent statues in DS3, they're still active. Yuria also mentions Kaathe by name if she's killed, so he's probably responsible for the goings-on in Londor.
>>47158508
This is 100% false.
>>47158872
Have you played the game?
One of the somewhat more relevant NPCs is one of Kaathe's main bitches or something
>>47158872
If you kill Yuria of Londor, she says something to the effect of "I've failed you, Kaathe."
>>47158616
Don't summon solaire and don't lock on. Attack his tail after he charges. Stay the fuck away most of the time.
>>47158405
>>47158744
>What happened with Alva? Why did he invade? What's his whole deal?
No idea.
Maybe it's the only thing he's got left to do? Maybe he's doing his witch wife's bidding now? Who knows.
>Why are all the enemies so much bigger than the player and npc's?
Power=Size, Soul=Power. The more souls you physically embody the larger you become. PC's are kept small to maintain game mechanics/fairness.
>What's the deal with the corvians?
They're descendants from men who married and mated with the Crow-Demons. They speak fondly of the painted world as it's most likely a place they once lived in many, many, generations ago.
>And the maggot people?
The Maggot men are people who were reborn by Rosaria too many times and they lost themselves/forgot their forms. They turned into Maggot met and Rosaria takes care of them selflessly despite everything.
>And those goat things?
When the Abyss watchers took on the role as lord of cinder the farron woods became flooded and corrupted by a great poison swamp: maybe of the native inhabitants died, but the farron legion survived and turned into the corrupted Ghru we know today.
The Ghru are a PEOPLE: Some of them remain loyal to the farron legion and the abyss watchers.
Some of them however went back to Izalith where they were welcomed as the chaos flame was fading: they remain there and attempt to revitalize the ruins and watch over the graves of their gracious hosts.
>>47158801
General advice: Make one or two attempts without attacking the boss at all, just try to avoid getting killed for as long as possible and observe the moves. This works everywhere except for the first Capra Demon, that you already passed (I have to wonder how, because it's far more challenging than Gaping). Look for opening, look for what needs to be avoided, the go into actually taking it down.
Use Resin on your sword or upgrade further (you should have Large Ember by now that you can give to Andre and got up to +10, this means a bit of backtracking but should be manageable)
Also you can summon both Solaire and Lauterc for this one, unless you already killed Lautrec.
>>47158841
I don't believe so, no. The demons spawned right from the chaos flame.
>>47158937
+10 weapon needs a ton of large shards, no way that's happening.
>>47158902
Care to explain why ?
>>47158725
Concept art? Can you post it? I'm not sure what you and that anon are talking about with Pinwheel being sad. Didn't he just steal some bits of Nito's Lord Soul so he could play Necromancer on some skeletons?
>>47155846
Artorias the Abysswalker. He killed dragons during the age of ancients and was elevated to an elite status for it. He fought against the corruption that had befallen Oolacile and New Londo in an attempt to save the people and rescue the princess. He even sacrificed himself to save his companion and pet Sif. He is perhaps the only character deserving to be called a hero in Dark Souls. Even with one good arm he still puts up more of a fight then Sulyvahn.
>>47159013
You will want that +10 anyway eventually. Either for Boss Soul weapon, or for Lightning path of for proceeding to +15.
>>47159079
Anon neglected to mention how Artorias got on his knees and started sucking Abyss dick.
>>47158933
...People actually hooked up with the creepy looking crow people? Well. Alright, I guess.
And what do you mean reborn by Rosaria? I didn't know she could do that. Then again, I never really did much with her covenant. Invading makes me feel like a dick so I never did it much.
And one more thing that really bothered me, what the fuck happened to Eygon and Sirris? Second best girl and best tsun guy randomly dying.
Sirris' death pissed me off the most though. >"My life now belongs to thee, I will serve you forever."
>"Actually never mind I think I'll just die fuck you"
And why does that blind woman move after becoming a fire keeper? Does staying in a building full of fire keeper corpses and literally sitting on a pile of them make her feel better about herself or something?
What happened to Ornstein? Apparently he didn't die after fighting CU in the cathedral and his armor is in Archdragon Peak, but it was there with no corpses which means Nameless didn't kill him to death.
What's the deal with Untended Graves? Does its location near Ocieros' Garden mean anything?
I'm probably asking too many things that probably don't even have answers, but I just want to know what people think. There's too many things about this game that I'm wondering about.
>>47159092
Buddy, I know this stuff. He can get large shards from leeches or sen's fortress. He's not getting a +10 before gaping dragon, nor does he need it yet.
>>47159048
Well, as a start, Gwyn, Nito, Seath, and giants are huge and are completely without any humanity.
The only enemies that drop the humanity item are rats (because they eat people) and the Literal Humanities in the abyss. Neither of which are especially large.
>>47155846
Profaned Flame is none of those things. It's something new.
>>47159333
>Gwyn, Nito, Seath, and giants are huge and are completely without any humanity.>Gravelord Nito
>Drops: Lord Soul(Soul of Gravelord Nito), 60,000 souls, 1 Humanity
>Seath the Sacleless
>Drops: Bequeathed Lord Soul Shard (Soul of Seath the Scaleless), 60,000 Souls, 1 Humanity
>>47159420
Gameplay mechanic. You know outright that Seath was never a human and has no aspects of humanity in him.
>>47159256
>What happened to Ornstein?
It's implied that the Nameless King--Gwyn's firstborn son--trained Ornstein as their movesets include numerous similarities. Ornstein's armor being in Archdragon Peak could imply that the Nameless King recovered it from Anor Londo following his disciple's defeat, or that, yes, Ornstein somehow survived and sought out his master at some point.
>What's the deal with Untended Graves?
The Untended Graves is an alternate reality--the reality that came to pass when Gundyr failed to make it to the Kiln of the First Flame in time to link the fire. Seeing this, Ludleth basically broke time itself to create a pocket dimension where the world was still on the brink, and thus still had a chance for some random Unkindled to fix things.
>>47159488
How is Ludleth so powerful?
>>47159451
Humanity is not exclusive to humans - eg. Gargoyles have it.
And one might argue that Lord Souls are made of concentrated Humanity
>>47159558
Humanity comes exclusively from the Dark Soul. So yes, humanity is exclusive to humans unless someone decides to shove it into something else/something else eats a human.
Seath is a mutant Eternal Dragon holding a large chunk of a Lord Soul, which the game makes abundantly clear is distinct from the Pygmy's Dark Soul.
>>47159488
Nameless training Ornstein is a really interesting theory. I don't see Nameless going back to Anor Londo though, what with being banished and all. I would have guessed that Ornstein would have gone searching for Nameless instead, maybe to seek help in relinking the flame like his father did? Or maybe to fuck the Pontiff's shit up since he just rolled in and (I assume) killed or fed everyone there to Aldritch. But then what happens after? Did he just leave his armor there to retire like Gough and Ciaran? That's what I'm thinking.
I felt like Untended Graves was some kind of alternate reality, but created by Ludleth? I never would have guessed. How'd he manage that? Is there anywhere in the game that states or implies that? I'd like to read more on how that happened, if possible.
>>47159552
There's a reason he's a Lord of Cinder--and the only one to retain his sanity and sense of duty even after burning down to nothing more than a midget. Dude is just that badass.
>>47158405
So here's my guess on Alva:
>Seeker of the Spurned
Karla's ashes hint at her being another fragment of Manus, but one that "never truly dies", with a followup bit saying that she just phases in and out of reality's fringes.
Final line is "only, there is no one to search for her any longer."
With that, I'm thinking that Karla was Zullie in a previous cycle, and as we can see with Creighton, it's possible to go from Drangleic to Lothric.
Alva and Zullie probably had some sort of connection and when she reincarnated or whatever as Karla, Alva set out to find her.
And then he got gangbanged by all the Jailers. Fuck that room.
>>47159864
Chances are Karla doesn't even know or remember Alva if she's reincarnated Zullie. Sad story for him.
>>47157632
The game literally has a Child of Dark in it. The Firekeeper is wearing the Crown of the Ivory King. The Throne of Want is the entire basis of returning the Lords to their Thrones. There are plenty of overt threads connecting to the second game.
>>47159613
>>47159552
>>47159488
>>47159256
The Untended Graves are in the past: If you don't talk to the shrine handmaiden AT ALL, but speak to her in the Untended Graves AND THEN speak to her at firelink: She'll recognize you.
The Untended Graves are an age -perhaps just before the current one- where darkness has set in, the fire has faded and people wait for the little embers in the darkness to come back so they may relight the flame again.
Champion Gundyr was a chosen undead much like we are, but he came too late in his adventure: The Bell never tolled for him or anyone and by the time he rose to the challenge there was nothing left to save.
Champion Gundyr pontificates on what he could possible do to save the world when you/the swordmaster show up. Gundyr sees your magnificent souls as an opportunity to finally start his quest and the two of you fight: you fight, he loses and you take his soul(s) leaving him with nothing.
Completely fucking defeated Gundyr devices one final plan: He will chain himself to the bonfire, impale himself on a coiled sword and whoever so pulls out the coiled sword and survives fighting the hollow he becomes- will be worthy to finish what he started.
Gundyr than waits in the darkness as the abyss takes him/grows upon his back and infests his hollowed body.
>>47158841
I think the Ghru are a far more degenerate example of the purple guys we see in Blighttown. Living in filth has very strange effects in Dark Souls world and Farron Keep is pretty blighted. Same phenomenon.
>>47160081
That doesn't really explain why there isn't a single other piece of lore that describes the aforementioned age of dark.
Not saying it's wrong, just really weird. You'd think that'd be something to write about.
>>47160081
The Unkindled isn't a Chosen undead, but otherwise pretty good.
>>47159256
Smough's hammer says he was the "last knight to guard the ruined cathedral" which implies that the Ornstein we fight is just an illusion. Which could explain the callousness Smough has in not hesitating to smash the corpse for lightning powers.
Then again, its implied that he went to go find the Sun's Firstborn and the body we peel the armor set off of in DS3 is him. Which does not explain who the fuck the Old Dragonslayer was.
>>47160166
Was Old Dragonslayer an optional fight?
>>47160166
>the Old Dragonslayer
According to the Leo Ring's DS3 flavor text, Ornstein was the "first knight" of Gwyn's firstborn. There could have been other knights who copied the armor and fighting style.
>>47160224
>There could have been other knights who copied the armor and fighting style.
This is likely, given the Dragonslayer Armour boss.
>>47159608
Just wanted to add; the Dark Soul the Furative Pygmy had IS a Lord Soul, it's just called the Dark Soul as well.
I believe Seath's Lord Soul is the Life Soul, in the sense that he can warp and twist life as he wills it.
>>47160339
>Seath's Lord Soul is the Life Soul
Nope. That's the Witch of Izalith's. It's precisely because of its ability to give life that the demons it spawned are so twisted.
Seath never had a Lord Soul of his own; he only ever possessed a fragment of Gwyn's Light Soul.
>>47158808
SOMEONE DO THIS PLEASE
>>47155447
Just recently I actually GMed a friend a Dark Souls themed game of 5e D&D.
It actually worked better then I thought (due to AC being comparatively easier to hit), because in keeping with the sense of lonely isolation Dark Souls has I was GMing ONLY that one player and she only actually played a regular Fighter with the Champion archetype.
Without healing magic and without spells and with me ensuring enemies did NOT play fair just because she was alone, her survivability was always in question and she definitely struggled at lot.
I like to think I also captured the atmosphere with the story, but I struggle with thinking I sucked at it; I'm good with words and verbal descriptions after spending so much time GMing, but I'm no a high-resolution next generation graphics engine like DS3 has.
>>47158841
>>47158983
>>47160086
The Demons of Izalith were all produced by the Chaos Flame: They seem to sprout out of it in a variety of shapes, sizes and intelligence and despite the chaos of the flame with some noticeable consistency.
The Ghru were NOT created by the flame.
The Ghru became corrupted by the chaos of the swamp that consumed their woods and killed/poisoned everyone else inside of it.
The Ghru we see in Farron keep remained loyal to the undead legion and the abyss watchers.
The Ghru we see in the Smoldering Lake and Ruins fled from their previous responsibilities and started a new life in the ruins of Izalith.
I think the Ghru are EXCEPTIONALLY fucking interesting because it seems as though the ones that fled to Izalith made some attempt at rebuilding it's culture, heritage, etc: The massive dead Ghru sage kneeling before a small human bringing him the Izalith Pyromancy tome speaks a lot to this.
Perhaps when the Ghru returned to Izalith many other Demons and Witches began making the pilgrimage back as well? To rekindle the chaos flame? To try and see if they couldn't salvage something out of their city?
>>47155500
Correction; Maria is tall because on average Cainhurst folk seem to be quite tall, and thus The Plain Doll is tall.
>>47155822
I'm glad I'm not the only one that thought that.
This does raise the question of where the fuck the Crowns are now
>>47160428
It seems to me like igniting the fire warps and twists anything that's immediately around it. Sort've like a one-time burst of what the Chaos Flame did (which is a result of Izalith warping her Lord Soul in an attempt to recreate the First Flame, so hey)
Ahh, dear little Ocelot.
Where have you gone? Are you hiding from me?
>>47160428
>The massive dead Ghru sage kneeling before a small human
Other way around. The human is the one kneeling.
>>47158209
Maria does no such thing despite sharing an identical face.
The Plain Doll's wide-eyed unblinking stare is SUPPOSED to be a bit creepy and eerie, reminding you that for all of her animacy and quiet personality that she is still in fact a Doll.
>>47160514
She's not quite just a Doll.
When you kill Maria, she makes some very interesting comments. Same thing when you give her the comb.
>>47160537
I mean she's a doll PHYSICALLY, and thus has big artificial eyes that don't ever actually need to blink at all:
Spiritually....that's something else, and I'm honestly not sure what.
I'm fairly certain that she's "alive" in the awakening world too (given he creepy fucking finger twitching shit, like despite her immobility she's dreaming) and that she might only be animate and speaking in the Hunter's Dream because of Gehrman's contacting the Moon Presence and likely making whatever wish he made, but so far whenever a Great One fixes a problem you ask it to fix it doesn't always fix it in the way you intended and the fixing has consequences that you (and likely it) never really figured on.
So yes, the Plain Doll is "alive", but what that actually MEANS for her and what it makes her sort of puzzles me.
![izalith-pyromancy-tome-dark-souls-3[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/Y1BBBRn.jpg "izalith-pyromancy-tome-dark-souls-3[1]")
>>47160488
>Other way around. The human is the one kneeling.
Correct, sorry.
Anyway pic related.
My "personal theory" is that when the Ghru came to lost Izalith as the demons they had become they were welcomed into it as citizens, but the place was a THOROUGH shit-hole: ruined, abandoned, with naught but demons living in fucking squaller.
I believe the Ghru set about rebuilding and refurbishing Izalith: they were the ones who built the statues, the tombs, they turned Izalith into something that the demons could take pride in and a nation that even the Lothric kingdom eventually could not ignore.
The Ghru I feel were also responsible in reuniting all the original pyromancies of Izalith: treating the fair lady (queelag's sister) as a goddess and constructing white-hair talismans that cast both miracles and pyromancies as well as finding and welcoming a number of the lost witches of Izalith back into their city- perhaps even Quelana herself.
Though; I don't think they were capable of rekindling or fixing their chaos flame, what's more is I don't think they were capable of dealing with the full force of Laurian and the Lothrics when they came to fuck up their kingdom.
>>47155196
Priscilla is the best souls waifu.
Herald takes second place. After her it's Mib then Doll then Anastasia from DS1.
>yfw the giant blacksmith has a face under his mask
>>47160662
Yeah, her nature is really up in the air.
There's nothing else like her in the whole setting.
>>47160690
well, the Ghru are explicitly descendants of the acolytes of Farron Keep. It might be that, as they were exposed to the Abyss in their duties, they warped and mutated into what they are now. As for the pyromancy, well, the Ghru are pretty basic creatures, they might see pyromancy as the natural means of fighting off the Dark? We also see them using poison smoke in the swamp, a pyromancy itself. So, what better place for a handful of them to end up than Izalith, home of pyromancy.
>>47155670
What the everloving FUCK are the Angels? The fucking weirdass lightning demons from Londo or Gargoyles misinterpreted? Unlikely. Something to do with the Corvians? Again unlikely.
We're talking about something that has incredible power over miracles and can't readily be identified with any of the lord souls. There's some real bullshit afoot.
>>47161290
See: >>47158380
>>47161290
From the winged knight set description:
"Worship of the divine messengers was viewed as heresy in Lothric and unrecognized by any of the Three Pillars of rule.
This is believed to be why Gertrude, the Heavenly Daughter, was imprisoned in the lofty cell of the Grand Archives."
You can find what is presumably Gertrude's body in the cage at the top of the archives, carrying the spell the winged knights use:
"The Queen's holy maiden Gertrude was visited by an angel, who revealed this tale to her.
Despite losing both her sight and voice, she was determined to record the tale. Ordinary men cannot decipher her fragmentary scrawl, nor comprehend how it became the foundation of the Angelic faith of Lothric."
So basically a blind mute was visited by what she thought was an angel.
![tumblr_o603avTyrl1riizp3o3_1280[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/3qzGNyR.jpg "tumblr o603avTyrl1riizp3o3 1280[1]")
>>47158380
>>47161320
I actually highly doubt the Angel(s) are the primordial serpents as at least one of the serpents seems to have some respect/importance/significance at the archives.
They seem to celebrate him as some kind of scholar or intellectual?
I just REALLY doubt the Angels are the primordial serpent(s) as they wouldn't go make statues to celebrate him since the worship of the angels is heresy.
>want to join lore thread
>waiting until DLC-included version comes out to play DS3
>don't want to spoil myself
Suffering
>>47161411
>waiting until DLC-included version comes out to play DS3
I want the DLC to come as fast as fucking possible if only in the hopes of getting MORE. ANSWERS.
MORE.
LORE.
They say there's going to be THREE before Miyazaki calls an end to the Souls series and even if they turn out to be TERRIBLE I just want to fucking KNOW what happens NEXT.
FUCK.
>>47161378
The scholars are called heretical. Everyone knows they're bad news. It's just that Oceiros went to them in the hopes of producing a worthy heir, he outright embraced the heresy in an attempt to have a dragon baby.
>>47161529
do you think that the Wretches in the Irithyl dungeon are the results of his failed attempts at children?
>>47156675
A pilgrim I'm pretty sure. Has the turtle back and hooded robe.
>>47161831
I don't know, all I do know about the Wretches is that they're said to worship dragons, use twisted old bones from dead wyverns as weapons to try and imitate dragon tail weapons, and that they mutilate themselves to try and make themselves look more like dragons. They might be entirely unconnected.
>>47155447
>the Deep
>the angels in Lothric
>Age of Ancients and Everlasting Dragons
>Primordial serpents/Londor or post ending "Age of Dark/Men/Hollows"
>the profaned flame
>the death of the Chaos flame and demons
All these things are immensely interesting and under explored. Dark Souls 3 has a lot of room for interesting material.
However, I don't feel like they can make another Dark Souls game. The main story has been stretched out about as far as it can go. Four games of "really guys, the fires dying so you better save the world before it dies for real this time, honest!" Would be very annoying.
>>47161989
>The main story has been stretched out about as far as it can go. Four games of "really guys, the fires dying so you better save the world before it dies for real this time, honest!" Would be very annoying.
A big part of dark souls 3's story WAS exactly that though, so Miyazaki no doubt feels the same way.
When the first flame was rekindled in the first game it was an ENORMOUS flame, but at the end of Dark souls 3 it's just a little spark; a little ember.
>>47162039
That's probably why the story introduces multiple people who have linked the flame as characters and makes it seem routine and well-known. It's almost routine that people have to link the flame, and like it does less and less each time. That wasn't the case in 1 or even 2. In 1 it's barely a legend what happened to Gwyn, that the flame needs to be linked, and even what linking it does, and even in 2 it's something only a few are aware of, something of a secret, steeped in superstition and mystery even if people are aware it has to happen. The people who sought the flame were the top of the heap, so to speak, but in 3 who do you have?
You have a small, legless man, a simple army of soldiers (though strong, these aren't exactly standout legends), the giant king of a city, a fat cannibal sludge, and a crippled, mutant fop of a prince. And all the pomp is gone, the only reason the Unkindled has to go through so much trouble is because Gundyr fucked up and arrived too late and people scrambled to bring back the flame and some weird time travel shit happened that brought back a bunch of the previous Lords of Cinder who had to be dragged back. Hell, for Aldrich they literally packed him into a box and THREW him into the fire, he didn't go on a quest, he didn't even want to do it.
I think it means something here that the final boss isn't even the immediate Lord whose gone hollow and needs to be put down because he's crazy, or someone trying to stop you or steal the fire for a powerplay, it's literally the flame itself incarnating an avatar of the previous Lords from ash to stop you. The fire itself seems to want to go out now.
But yeah, if they made a new game, they need to set it in a new Age, either the Age of Dark or the Age of the Deep whatever it may be, and completely retool the setting and story to something else. Bloodborne shows they can still make games in this style just fine, but the cyclic plot of Dark Souls is weighing them down now.
>>47162164
>The fire itself seems to want to go out now.
That's actually a very interesting interpretation I hadn't considered.
The Flame itself through the will of generation after generation of heroes who've linked the flame is completely 100% done.
Fuck the age of fire- the fire is TIRED.
>>47158466"Ah, sweet Child of Kos, returned to the ocean...
A bottomless curse, a bottomless sea.
Accepting of all that there is, and can be...."
>>47162164
Miyazaki said he's now working on an entirely new IP.
I pray for Future Souls.
>>47162164
>either the Age of Dark or the Age of the Deep
Age of the Deep & Dark?
>>47162313
Nah, it doesn't work. The Age of Dark is humanity and the abyss, the Age of the Deep seems to be humanity or the abyss without humans, something else and alien, and with an ocean theme to it. They're incompatible because they rely on the same force but in different hands.
>>47162254
I'd be fine with it, seems like it'd involve even more guns than Bloodborne though.
>>47161831
>>47161909
I though the wretches were people in the dungeons finding out about the way of the dragon covenant, and without all the necessary information trying to join it. They didn't know that the covenant leaderThe Ancient Dragon in DS1 or the Dragon Egg in DS2is dead, and that the covenant can't work without an ACTUAL dragon, since all they have left are wyverns/drakes. So they try to mutilate themselves and figure out a way to be dragons.
HOWEVER, there is a secret way to get to Archdragon Peak, where people could actually try to join the covenant, but without a legit dragon powering it, there's only enough dragon stones for one person.
>>47162347
Speaking of, Dark Souls 3 is really dull and most of the areas that aren't Irythll bore the fuck out of me, but that view at the end of Archdragon Peek of the dead, mountain-sized Eternal Dragon on the side of an actual mountain is a great view.
>>47162368
I like all the underground areas as well.
The Carthus skellies are so goofy. The spins and head pats always make me smile.
>>47162378
I don't. Catacombs of Carthus is a very, very dull area. There's nothing interesting about it design wise, it's just another brown and gray, cramped dungeon like all the games have without any design elements that stand out. The skeletons are fun, and I want to learn more about Carthus the nation, but not the catacombs.
>>47162378
>underground areas
Man, as short as it was, Profaned Capital was just one big pile of NOPE.
>Toothy hand monsters
>More of those goddamn sewer centipedes
>Toxic swamp
>More Irithyll jailers
The profaned flame didn't burn nearly enough of the place.
>>47162401
The handhippos made me laugh as soon as I circled around one and noticed that they were literally just fat hairy hippo women.
>>47162392
I would have loved if Carthus Catacombs took a page from BBs book and had a randomly generatef section of basically endless tombs
>>47155183
So the Great Debate.
Ornsteins Plume.
Is it his hair or does FROM just not give us the satisfaction of his plume even tough Artorias and even the Nameless Kings crown got the Hair/Plume for player armor?
>>47162539
At this point it's gotta be hair.
>>47162547
kind of a nice touch tho, it validates the Idea that NK trained with(or at least shares a cultural background) with Ornstein.
One of my biggest question is, was Artorias also a Dragonlayer or did he come to the crew later?
It's never mentioned anywhere, while even scrubs like Havel are famous or hunting dragons with Gwyn, but only Ornstein wears it as his actual Title (indicating he was a lizard genocide machine compared to others)
>>47162599
He probably was at first, but they all developed into their specialties later on. Ciaran became more of an assassin, Artorias started palling around with humans and wildlife, and all that. Gough and Ornstein probably kept to killing dragons.
>>47155670
I suppose wherever the Winged Knights are from it's fashionable to seem fat. Ala Smough or Catarina Knights, while actually being a buff muscleman underneath.
>>47159956
I'm pretty sure Karla is supposed to be Yuria from demon souls
>>47162827
She's inspired by Yuria for sure, but as of yet we don't have any evidence that Demon's and Dark take places in the same universe. There are stronger connections between Dark and King's Field than there is Dark and Demon's.
>>47162599
What I want to know is why Havel wasn't one of Gwyn's Royal Knights With Attitude
>>47162926
Racism. All the Knights are giants.
Rather, I think it's because Havel took on a different role as a confidant and a priest in addition to his duties as a knight, so he was a bit apart and closer to Gwyn than his Royal Knights would be.
>>47162926
Havel was like, Gwyn's best friend. Somewhat on equal ground with him. If I recall correctly he lead Gwyn's armies during the war against the Dragons.
Or maybe I'm just a big stupid idiot and don't remember anything. It is very late, so that is highly probable.
>>47162926
I don't think he was a bad enough dude to join.
Smough wasn't admitted either.
>>47162956
Smough wasn't omitted because he wasn't strong enough, it was because he was a disgusting cannibal that nobody liked.
>>47162949
he wasn't even granted a special soul.
He was a human, and not that powerful.
He also had a falling out with seath who was Gwyns butt buddy
>>47162956
You know for the longest godamn time I thought Smough and Ornstein were brothers?
I have no idea why. Like, there is no lore that says that, I know. I just... kinda went with it.
>>47162975
According to the wiki(s) he wasn't even that big a cannibal. (yes, I know how stupid that sounds)
From what I can gather he just ground up peoples bones and put it on his food.
Unless that food was the meat of the people he killed... hmmm...
>>47162992
People were disgusted that he did that. It wasn't enough for them to exile, imprison or kill him since he was just putting bone dust of people they had sentenced to execution in the first place, but it still sickened them enough to not want to associate with him or admit him to a prestigious position like Royal Knight.
Which made him massively butt flustered. Not butt flustered enough to stop eating bones, though. And to his credit, not butt flustered enough to make him a traitor like a certain Nameless King.
>>47162978Pretty sure Ciaran and Gough didn't have a special soul either.
Anon, they're mostly a gameplay mechanic. Not everyone who deserves to give you a special soul is a boss, thus justifying a boss soul weapon.
What is the deal with the people we see at Archdragon Peak? Havel and Ricard are of biggest curiosity to me. Why did they of all people decide to go and protect the dragons? Or was it more to do with the Firstborn hanging out there?
>>47163007
I don't think NK acted out of treason, but simply a disagreement with his daddy.
I wager the decision to betray Gwyn was done at around the time Gwyn decided to link the fire. When it became clear that the age of fire is fading, Gwyn might have actually proposed that NK link it for him, and the NK, much like Lothric, could have rejected that idea and instead gone on to look into alternatives, one being the path of the dragon, and a new age of gray.
But we don't even know everything yet, perhaps beyond the cycle of fire, there's an even greater cycle of Dragons, when eventually all the linking of fires give birth to a new Dragon Cult and a new Archdragon.
>>47163062
Probably just phantasms summoned or enslaved by the cobra bitches. Later on in the level you find a real Havel (or at least a guy wearing his armor) standing over a dead wyvern, implying he smashed it.
>>47163007
Eh, I would say having your father, who is the lord of the world, strip you of you name, rank, title, and erase you from the annuls of history and destroy every statue of you made would made anyone butt flustered enough to betray the one who did that to you.
>>47163007
Nameless Kings name is Darryl
>>47163062
Ornstein and Havel are obviously there to Kill Dragons. Havel even stands infront of a slain wyvern and attacks the player because you are most likely going through the rites of becoming a dragon or whathever
>>47163065
Nah, it's pretty clear the Age of the Dragons is the timeless era before the fire and the dark.
>>47163074
He seems to have done something to deserve it.
>>47163077
>Gwyn's child.
>Not named Gwynbormir or something.
>>47163080
I don't think that was really Havel
seeing as in DS1 he was 100% Hollow
Just some guy in his armor
or armor like his
It is said that OTHER people had armor like that. Its not impossible that some of it was passed down over the course of a bigillion years
>>47163084
mentioned in the intro cinematic or DS1 which is all but obsolete
obviously the world is turning back into the age of dragons, with the sun dying and all
>>47163084
>Thats the joke
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPrc0RtSFBY
>>47163101
>All but obsolete
Based on what, anon?
>Sun dying
The sun is turning into a Dark Sign. It's indicating that the world is about to lose the fire and become the Age of Dark again, not that suddenly time will stop existing and all the very, very dead dragons will come back. There's no indication of that.
>>47163097
both his armor and ring make reference to the fact that Havel had a lot of successors who followed in his footsteps, so it sounds like they're trying to say it isn't the original. Still, one wonders why someone trying to emulate a famous dragonslayer would allow themselves to be summoned to the aid of dragons.
>>47163097
The Peak seems to be in a limbo outside time and space, after all you enter it through meditation.
Perhaps even a memory of the Peak. Havel could have gone there at some point but failed and returned, Failing to defeat the NK or his Drakes might have caused Havels Hollowing in DS1
Also he was exiled by Gwyn at some point or something for something it's been years since I last read any of his descriptions
>>47163113
The Dead Dragons are dead, but there are many signs of the Humans trying to achieve Dragonhood. Even the Player can turn into a semi Dragon. And then we have Oceiros.
My Guess is, the followers would become the new Dragons of the new age, and people like Oceiros would be the new Seath of the Age. If you didn't kill him.
>>47163143
Seath was never an important being to the Eternal Dragons. He's an outcast, a mutant, a freak. It's why he betrayed them all to side with the bears of the Lord Souls. What's going on with Oceiros is a continuation of what was implied to happen in Dark Souls 2 as well: Seath keeps coming back. He doesn't really die, for whatever reason, in every cycle Seath managed to possess a person or an area and continue his experiments. It's different from how each cycle has someone reminiscent of the bears of the Lord Souls, how there's always someone with the same theme as Nito, the Witch, and Gwyn. It's implied to be literally Seath.
And you're right that the dragon cults are trying to become dragons. None of them have succeeded. They've all been hunted down and are dead. All you find in Archdragon peek is a bunch of corpses and snake people. There's really no indication that they have or will usher in a new Age of Dragons, or even that such a thing is possible after the First Flame was born.
>>47163127
Ricard places the Peak in an interesting timeline, actually. In DS1 his rapier description says he disappeared 'up north' somewhere. While in DS2 it states that most of his tales end in tragedy - but not all of them. So the Peak isn't actually that far back, if it's even in the past at all.
>>47158616
Attacks to the head do more damage. wait for him to slam down get in some hits run away as he charges, hit the head some more. Running away from and towards him baits this attack more. Chop the tail for dragon king greataxe.
>>47163176
well, the Player can succeed in becoming a Dragon.
>>47163204
You can become a semi-dragon, and you end up burning in the fire for another Age of Fire, or ushering in an Age of the Dark where you rule humanity. No Age of Dragons. We don't have any real evidence that humans can progress passed the 'emaciated dragon furry' stage into a for realsies Eternal Dragon.
>>47163214
Don't forget becoming zombie Messiah. Which is an ending I still don't fully understand.
>>47163214
the player would be a new born dragon, and we don't know yet if there isn't a secret ending or what DLC might bring.
I'm just saying, just because there are gameplay limitations, we shouldn't ignore the implications on the overall story.
>>47163226
That's the one I meant, you become the 'Lord of Hollows'. Londor is a nation of Hollows, so apparently you become their king or the king of anyone else who becomes undead (which without the fire will be everyone eventually).
>>47163233
There aren't any implications that there's going to be another Age of Dragons, anon, and I don't really understand why you're so hung up on thinking there will be. You're right that the DLC could shake things up completely, but in the main game I'm just not seeing it.
So tg what do you think the DLC will address? Ocelotte? Gertrude? Or bringing back kaathe/frampt?
>>47163317
The Deep.
>>47163249
Well, the Whole Game felt to me as if the People of Lothric had to decide between linking the fire or letting it fade.
With a Lot of Dragon Worship mixed in, and people growing wings.
I can't tell what it's all about, the game doesn't really explain it, and becoming a dragon feels like becoming a great one in BB to me
If the dragons were around before the First Flame, why do they breathe fire?
>>47163398
Now, I've never fought Kalameet so I can't opine on him, but everything that breathes fire that we've seen other than his is a Wyvern. They're not true Eternal Dragons, they're degenerates.
>>47163390
Letting it fade just brings out the Age of Dark. A lot of the wings seem to be made of tree branches/roots or shadow imitating such, which is a sure sign of the Abyss (or sometimes Chaos, but the game tells us outright that's dead), so I think that's more the intent for people like Sullyvan and the Pilgrim Butterflies. Though yeah, there's an inordinate amount of dragon worship going on around Lothric.
>>47159290
You can farm the slimes in Depths for large shards. There are like 8 outside the bonfire, making it a relative breeze, especially if you backtrack to firelink to get pyro flame and combustion, which oneshots them at like +5. Getting a +10 for gaping dragon is easy in a "normal" run, although not at all necessary.
>>47158801
Stay the fuck away most of the time.
With melee, basically you're looking for when it slams its torso down, then charges. Run sideways away from its path, then in the same direction so you end up where its head is, strike that 3-4 times, then run away again. Its attacks are large and have long active frames so learning to dodge them close up takes some time.
Alternatively, run away and shoot with bow. Takes 10 minutes but you really just cannot die if you do this, Gaping will spend most of its time walking slowly towards you with its torso up.
>>47163428
if the flame fades the world eventually goes back to it's natural state.
Maybe it looks dark now but only in contrast to the light
>The age of dragons ended with the start of the age of fire
>Dragons are weak to lightning
>Not fire
There must be something more to this.
>>47163574
The only soul that seemed to have an actual affinity for fire in and of itself was the Witch's. She played with fire, Gwyn with lightning and sunlight, Nito with death, and Pygmy with darkness.
And it's not like the flame itself was hostile to the dragons and started hurting them, it was just because a bunch of crawling things picked up the four special souls, saw their cool new powers and intelligence, and decided they were going to kill some dragons just because.
>>47163574
How did seath know the weakness of scales if he doesn't have any?
>>47163676
Because he's a dragon and probably talked with and interacted with other dragons at some point in eternity before the First Flame came into being.
>>47163682
Or he was experimenting with Lightning and that's how he lost the scales
>>47163705
He's a melty emaciated crystal monster with no eyeballs and bug wings. I think he was just born like that.
>>47163711
We don't know how he used to look and how much was caused by experimenting
WTF is going on with Kalameet? Why does he breath not regular flame but black flame? Is he even a true dragon or is he a degenerate pseudodragon? If he isn't an everlasting dragon, why does Anor Londo fear Kalameet? Is he a special sort of Abyss-tainted dragon? Was Kalameet an everlasting dragon, who lost his Immortality due to contacting with the Abyss?
>>47163779
Black Flame is pretty much associated with the Abyss, yeah. Whether or not Kalameet is an actual true dragon or not is up in the air, but it's clear that he's tainted with the Abyss, which is a very scary thing when you don't know what it is.
>>47163574
Fire is change. Its the opposite of stasis. Fire represents the world springing into life, an end to the lifeless age of nothing that the Dragons embodied.
Lightning is just the highest form of divine power. Of course they would be weak to that instead of fire. They breath fire after all.
>>47163317
The deep
The profaned flame
Something on oceiros or ocelotte
More on the whole pilgrim butterflies and black things that grow out of peopleDS2
>>47163062
Ornstein was there to find the Firstborn; presumably to bring him home to Anor Londo and unfuck the situation there.
>>47164032
And he got stabbed by that cunt. Nameless King a shit.
>>47164059
We don't know that. Perhaps ornstein chimped out with all the wyverns
>>47164059
We don't know the details.
I prefer to think they had one last duel (they probably used to spar in the old days).
>>47164032
So what do you guys prefer?
Ornstein as the Firstborn's mentor/father figure or as a younger knight looking up to him?
>>47164116
I am not sure but I think it was mentioned somewhere that NK came before Ornstein
i could be wrong
>>47163728
We know how he used to look, it's in the opening cinematic. Which shows no crystals.
I think the popular theory is that he started to research the crystals after the dragons were down and he was granted dukedom by Gwyn. Possibly because the primordial crystal had been possessed by other dragons and he was only able to get to it when they were out of the way. The crystal research led to his madness and possibly the blindness too.
The fact that crystal research makes Logan mad too supports this theory.
>>47164139
The NK's weaponis described as having been the protorype for Ornstein's spear.
I still really want Ornstein to be the grizzled veteran, keeping the hot headed prince in check.
>>47164116
I like to think they were both Trainer by Gwyn
>>47164139
It's mentioned in the nks swordspear that he invented that weapon Design and ornstein came later
>>47163779
>>47163876
Obsidian Greatsword's item description explicitly states that Kalameet is the last of the ancient dragons, which strongly implies that he's everlasting. or was until lately. This is also why Gough, retired though he is, takes up his bow to shoot Kalameet down for you.
![dark_souls_3_archdragon_peak[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/sh64l2U.jpg "dark souls 3 archdragon peak[1]")
So.
I'm just making some casual observations about the DRAGON PEEK because I find the place scenic and comforting to just take my time in:
-The Crystal lizards I'm just convinced are a kind of dragon. The Stone Lizards are probably an immortal sub-species or something. They're cute, but super fucking annoying.
-The Snake-men. I find the snake men interesting: they seem to be attendees or stewards to the dragon peek? Dark souls folklore heavily ties serpents/snakes as being "incomplete dragons" - maybe the serpent men willingly idolize and serve dragons?
-I think the Snake-men are of the same stock from what seath produced only gone feral. If you notice: The Cobramen who're familiar with magic wear the same six-eyed masks as seath's sorcerors.
-Is it just me or does it feel like the Dragon peek as ABRUPTLY ruined? I'm looking around and the Dragon Initiate/monks seem to have been in mid-meditation when something just -happened- and now they're dead. It doesn't even seem that long either: they still have their shawls on.
-This is 100% pure speculation: I think the Dragon Stones are just carved immortal stone dragon scales. These stone scales are given to humans who worship Dragons as gifts so they can become Dragon-like. That's my speculation.
-I've also got a suspicious feeling that the Dragon peek isn't 100% entirely physical. It feels like: it could be a cloud? You know? Like, wot oriental dragons make? It could just be a fever dream? A place only accessed by those who meditate? Maybe a bit of both?
-Does anyone else vaguely feel the place reminds them of the Dragon Aviary in DS2? Could that be why they placed it so high up to hatch those dragon eggs? Do you suppose Dragon's lay their eggs on the top of the world? Or perhaps the Dragon's wished to communicate/gain access to the Dragon peek and built it up there for convenience?
>>47164243
I sort of interpreted the dead praying dragons to have died that way on purpose. Like they were trying to transcend. But honestly I don't know.
>>47164202
>I like to think they were both trained by Gwyn
Oh, that's cool too.
I'd really like some expansion on the relationships between all the old guard.I want Ornstein and Gwyndolyn to be a thing
>>47161831
You know that is possible, but I'd really sooner chaulk them up to being something that Pontiff Sullyvahn cooked up for target practice, or perhaps to test the profane flame on maybe. Im just spitballing here.
Do you find wreches in dragon peak? I havent got there yet.
>>47164243
You can see the place from lothric so I guess it's an actual mountain
>>47164243
>>47164338
It most likely is a physical place since you can see it from multiple areas in the world. From the cutscene that takes you there it feels a lot like it's maybe just a dream, which is also supported by the fact that you get teleported around while in there, which doesn't happen in other areas.
On the other hand, being able to bonfire to and from there feels weird if it's really a dream. Then it should be something like Painted World which you can only exit in a particular way. Or maybe traveling there from another bonfire means just meditating and going back into the dream, but then I think they should've made the bonfire travel animation different.
Hard to say for sure.
>>47164287
No wreches in dragon peak. I think the theory about them trying to find the path of the dragon by mutilating themselves is interesting and makes a lot of sense.
>>47164243
>-This is 100% pure speculation: I think the Dragon Stones are just carved immortal stone dragon scales. These stone scales are given to humans who worship Dragons as gifts so they can become Dragon-like. That's my speculation.
Interesting. Not sure if there's any text directly supporting this but it'd make a lot of sense that to assume a dragon-like form, you'd need a physical piece of a dragon and the dragon stones are, well, stone, as are dragonscales.
>-Does anyone else vaguely feel the place reminds them of the Dragon Aviary in DS2?
I'd be inclined to say it could be the same place even, but Nameless King being there challenges this notion. Dragon Aviary was also a place in Drangleic which is far away in DS3. But there definitely is an association with dragons and high places. Maybe dragons used to nest at the tops of archtrees in the age of the ancients.
>>47158445
Indeed. Quite possibly even some reallyGreat Ones
>>47158445
This post made me want an underwater area from the DLC. I'd really like elaboration on the whole Deep thing anyways.
>>47159092
I still don't get the fucking part of Enchanted weapons
Fuck off, this isn't even TES tier shitposting where at least it was based on classical RPG games, DaS literally has nothing to do with /tg/ and unless you make your own game system from ground up, just fuck off.
>>47164684
They scale more with INT than Magic weapons. Similarly to how Occult weapons scale more with FTH than Divine weapons.
I have a VERY radical sketchy/grasping at straws theory, so please bear with me:
I Think Rosaria is Gertrude.
-Gertrude originally was the holy hand maiden of the Queen of Lothric (Gwynevere? Or a Daughter thereof?): she most likely attended the queen and the lothric sons and so on and so forth
-Gertrude at a later point however was visited by some mysterious Angel and she became inspired by whatever it is that happened to her. She proceeded to write her iconic miracle from this experience and inspire a sizable cult following of winged knights. All of this was Heresy.
-Gertrude was captured by the Lothrics, imprisoned in the archives and experimented on horribly by the scholars and their crystals as she developed INCREDIBLE fucking powers of healing, regeneration and rebirth(?)
-They used what they learned or stole from Gertrude to bring the Lothric twins into the world as they were, but the process stunted and crippled both parties involved: Gertrude lost her sight, the ability to speak and maybe even her ability to walk?
-Gertrude however was able to escape her imprisonment. My best guess? An inside sympathizer: Underneath her cage is a MAGGOT MAN- whom most likely was an Archive's scholar wishing to be reborn. He got his wish and Gertrude was let out.
-Gertrude was taken in hiding to the Cathedral of the deep to be kept far away from anything involving the Lothrics where she festered and stagnated into Rosaria.
-Rosaria's "tongue" was taken by her "first born" the Lothric princes.
-Rosaria's soul produces a Gwynevere miracle because like the Royal Dancer she is not Gwnevere, but connected to the Old Royalty as a hand maiden(???)?
I dunno.
That's my idea. I think it needs some work, but, seriously- There's a Maggot Man underneath Getrude's cage; that has to mean something.
>>47164691
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/steamforged/dark-soulstm-the-board-game
>>47164961
That maggot man underneath the cage certainly could mean things. They seem to be pretty explicitly tied to Rosaria and too many rebirths.
>>47162164
>Yuria: "Your lordship, prithee: Rest the fire from its' mantle"
Holy shit, I think this might just be canon.
I still don't get why being an Unkindled who acquires a darksign+stabbing your waifu and taking her darksign enables you to absorb the fire and end the cycle once and for all though.
Is this even a better end for the First Flame? Being part of a super-dark lord of the undead verus being kindled again and again by increasingly crappy Lords seems like a bad end either way.
>>47160339
>Life Soul
>>47160376
>Light Soul
Is there fucking anything to support this.
>>47165042
Not him but I've never heard of this life soul nonsense. Gwyn's soul is just super-buff even by Lord standards to the point he could divide his up between Seath and the 4kids, and still have enough left over to link the fire. Quelana certainly doesn't do anything unique with life so it seems more like just the Witch's abortive attempt to recreate the first flame creating the Bed of Chaos, going out of control and mutating demons rather than the Witch's soul having anything to do with anything but fire.
>>47161461
Miyazaki already called it quits, Tanimura is heading the DLC.
And there's only going to be two.
>>47164961
This theory leaves some questions unanswered, however. If Gertrude escaped, then who is the corpse inside the huge feathery cage in the archives? What is the angelic faith's connection to the Deep?
And the item lore says the winged knights' faith was heretical, but then why is there an illusory wall in the castle with a winged knight painting? Who stashed the winged knight armor behind that illusory wall?
>>47165020
>I still don't get why being an Unkindled who acquires a darksign+stabbing your waifu and taking her darksign enables you to absorb the fire and end the cycle once and for all though.
A Dark Sigil/Dark Sign is the mark of Humanity.
Unkindled are beings of the flame. Literally past Humans brought back as sentient piles of ash. They arent alive in the way you and I are, they are only living by the power of the First Flame and thus they arent effected by the Dark Sign like normal Humans.
Drawing out your "True Strength" is just you reopening your Dark Sign and reconnecting yourself with your Humanity.
When you "wed" Anri, you take her Dark Sigils too. You go from a max of 5 to 8. In other words, you go beyond the natural limits of a normal Human when you take on Anris Sigils as your own.
>Is this even a better end for the First Flame? Being part of a super-dark lord of the undead verus being kindled again and again by increasingly crappy Lords seems like a bad end either way.
My intepretation of the Lord of Hollows ending is this.
You take the flame not into yourself but into your Dark Sigil which is described as "The darkness of humanity seeps from this bottomless pitch-back hole, the gap filled by the accumulation of the curse.". The First Flame is absorbed into this bottomless pitch-black hole and turns it into something else.
Taking the flame into yourself and your Dark Sigil reverses the flame. It makes it a paradoxical dark flame of Humanity and breaks the cycle of light and dark since darkness feeds on itself, thus it cant ever fade. Hollows are saved but all other beings are fucked, since they will become the new hollows. Basically, its a true age of unkillable, immortal Hollows that dont go mad but every other creature is doomed to suffer like hollows forever.
>>47165085
>Quelana certainly doesn't do anything unique with life so it seems more like just the Witch's abortive attempt to recreate the first flame creating the Bed of Chaos, going out of control and mutating demons rather than the Witch's soul having anything to do with anything but fire.
The Witches created life in the form of demons.
And the word used for pyromancy in japanese is closer to primal magic, not related to fire at all.
I don't know if it is spelled out somewhere, but the intro mentions the fire creating desparity:
Light (Gwynn) and Dark (Pigmy)
Life (The Witch) and Death (Nito)
>>47165042
>>47160376
>>47160339
Seath was given his Soul by Gwyn, Gwyn gave Seath something called a "Bequeathed Lord Soul" which reads:
"Soul of the albino dragon, Seath the Scaleless. A fragment of a Lord Soul discovered at the dawn of the Age of Fire. Seath allied with Lord Gwyn and turned upon the dragons; for this he was awarded Dukedom embraced by the royalty, and given a fragment of a great soul. Although just a piece, it will still satiate the Lordvessel."
There are four lord souls:
-1 was found by Gwyn and it gave him the powers of the sun and of light. ((Gwyn however loved to divide his lord soul amongst his followers: giving the 2 largest pieces to the 4kings and seath. ))
-1 was found by The Witch of Izalith and gave her the power of fire, heat and life. ((The Witch of Izalith tried to turn hers into a new flame, but ended up creating the chaos flame which sprouted demons but also pyromancy))
-1 was "found" by The Gravelord Nito who was the -first- dead anything and gave him the power of plague and death. ((Nito gave much of his soul up to "death"- this leads me to believe that Nito may actually be beyond all of this. Nito may turn out to be more powerful than we could ever imagine.))
-1 was found by the furtive pygmy and it gave him the power of humanity. ((The Dark soul never grows smaller. It just kept getting larger and multiply: making more and more fucking people.))
Perhaps there's 1 more lord soul that remains deep, deep, down below and is what Aldrich fears and speculates about, but that's just me BS'ing.
>>47165108
Wait, you were basically an ash golem the whole time? Huh. That's pretty cool.
>reconnecting Humanity
>beyond the natural limits of a normal Human
So kinda like becoming an artificial Child of D-oh. OH, now I see what Nashandra was hoping to do by accessing the Throne of Want.
>paradoxical dark flame of Humanity
>darkness feeds on itself
Considering that one pyromancy that shows dark flames are actually possible that sounds legit. And considering Hollow-like things are all that's left at this point, things could be worse really.
Does this mean you kickstart the Age of the Deep Aldrich foresaw, or is it "merely" a true Age of Dark instead because now humanity is being led by a human rather than eldritch sludge piles?
The Stone Dragons seem to be pretty much extinct for reasons I'm not clear on; every time someone hunts them down more just respawn yet at this point for whatever reason their Covenants are running out of juice as mentioned earlier, yet their degraded descendents (how does that even work? I thought Miyazaki said the dragons were spirits in stone bodies) are still around and one's even grown larger than Kalameet and Sinh.
What about giants and stone trees? I was never sure how they'd respond to encroaching Dark.
>>47165144
Huh. Fair enough.
>>47165108
>>47165020
These are my other thoughts on the endings.
>Linking the fire
This time, it seems that linking the fire has no effect. It burns so weakly and your character just sits down and goes "well fuck" at the end.
Linking the fire is the worst ending because to me it seems like this actually kills the First Flame. Forcing another cycle is the worst thing you can do at this point.
>End of Fire
This is probably the best choice for everyone. You snuff out the flame to end the suffering of the entire world and the eternal struggle that flame has been fighting. This is the natual ending.
I feel this way because the Fire Keeper says that "but one day, tiny flames will dance across the darkness... Like embers linked by Lords passed." I think that means that the flame needed t die for the world to be reborn better and maybe the next world will not have a fading fire like this one.
>End of Fire alternate
This one... I dont know. You steal the First Flame but I dont exactly see how that will do anything. Its still very weak and on the brink of going out.
My only guess is that you use whatever power is left to create your own Age of whatever you want but that seems like a stretch.
>>47165107
>What is the angelic faith's connection to the Deep?
I don't think there is one.
I've had some time to think about it, but it's 110% more likely that Pontiff Sullyhvan lied to or tricked Gertrude into coming into the Cathedral of the deep to hide, but in actuality kept her locked up for 1 or 2 or both reasons:
-Gertrude/Rosaria was going to be fed to Aldrich as a warm up/pre-dinner snack since she had become a god.
-Gertrude/Rosaria was locked up because she had the power to CHANGE Aldrich and Aldrich himself saw this either as a threat or an AMAZING tool to have as he had fucking degenerated into a pile of worm shit.
>>47165195
>End of Fire alternate
>This one... I dont know. You steal the First Flame but I dont exactly see how that will do anything. Its still very weak and on the brink of going out.
The Alternate "End of Fire" isn't an End of Fire.
What happens is it's basically you chickening out: You take the last fleeting embers from the firekeeper at the last moment before it's completely snuffed out and you link the fire at the last moment.
This is why you don't get the achievement if you beat the firekeeper and why the narrator sounds so disgusted: you're being a coward.
>>47163409
Kalameet breaths black fire, Seath breaths crystal, Gapng breaths bile. The dragons we meet who aren't all zen and shit all breath something.
>>47165195
>End of fire
I agree but I would disagree with it being the best choice, since it also implies everything that led up to this moment will repeat when the new batch of Hollows try to prolong their age of fire.
And the dragons are gone for good this time, maybe the giants and archtrees too. So the legends that follow after will be lesser than the Lords of Lordran.
>Alternate
Pretty much what >>47165246 said. I noticed the "spark" you take from the Firekeeper seems to be shinier than the dim red fire in the Link the Fire ending; I think that might be because you take her soul as well as the fire so it has just a little more fuel to give it a small fragment of its' old glory. And you hold it up to literally drink it down like estus.
Which presumably gives you a little more time to survive as a non-Hollow. Just enough to see the rest of the world fade into darkness, at which point you'll truly run out of kindling and fade with it.
>>47165169
>Does this mean you kickstart the Age of the Deep Aldrich foresaw, or is it "merely" a true Age of Dark instead because now humanity is being led by a human rather than eldritch sludge piles?
I see the Deep as some thing unexplained and seemingly unknowable at this point. I cant really speculate on it.
>(how does that even work? I thought Miyazaki said the dragons were spirits in stone bodies)
Do you have a quote on this? I never heard it.
Anyways, Dragons in the Souls series are the perfect form of life. Everlasting and free of want and misery. The Dragons lived in a world without disparity and that meant that no pain or suffering existed either.
Many want to transcend to Dragonhood because of the immortality and enlightened nature of the Dragons themselves. The only way to win in the Souls games is to die before the fire begins to fade, not be born, or be a Dragon.
The other thing is that the influence of Dragons can be felt everywhere. Dragons are at the highest and lowest points in the world like ragon Aerie/Dukes Archives and Ash Lake. Dragons can be found in dreams and visions and even memories of the past.
>What about giants and stone trees?
Giants Hollow like Humans, the only difference is the Dark Sign is on their face. Its why their faces sink in and become holes.
Humans turn into stone trees in the final stages of hollowing. So to do the Giants.
>>47163676
Look at the opening cinematic again. Seath is crushing a scale in his hand, but whose? There's blood all over him, but none of the dragon are bleeding. And his skin has a different quality than in game: have you ever gotten just the first few layers of skin scraped off you? The pulpy underlayer looks just like Seath.
I think he tore off his own scales.
>>47164256
>>47164243
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sokushinbutsu
>>47165288
>I agree but I would disagree with it being the best choice
What ending is the best then? Prolong the ending of the fire or become the lord of hollows and dam all other life?
>And the dragons are gone for good this time, maybe the giants and archtrees too
The Dragons are never truly gone. They will always be at the highest and lowest points of the world far beyond the reaches of most.
>>47165144
It also mentions hot and cold.
>>47165290
>quote
Ugh, sorry. I remember him saying it in an interview but I can't seem to find it; net's inundated with DS3 interviews
>Humans turn into stone trees
So giants are fundamentally just a subspecies of proto-Hollow? Why are they so huge compared to other people, especially the unhollowed ones apparently employed as blacksmiths and soldiers in Lordran?
What exactly was the Giant's Kinship in DS2? Why did they have the Throne of Want originally before Vendrick nicked it? How did the giant kingdom get founded in the first place?
>>47165332
The way I see it, all life is already damned (Lords are mutated degenerates or piles of cinder, dragons are extinct, demons are on the verge of dying out because the Chaos Flame has died, mushroom people are kill because I dunno) and becoming the hollow lord lets you create an age that will finally never end as other anon said, where the remaining form of life can thrive.
>the dragons are never truly gone
I dunno, the covenant was still working fine in DS2 with just some mouldy bones and eggs. But in DS3 the other canon memeber of the covenant seems to imply there's only enough juice left for one person to ascend as a dragon, implying there's no more dragon spirits around either.
Well, apart from Oceiros who may or may not be Seath's most recent reincarnation.
>>47165297
I don't know. I'd thought that the very reason Seath betrayed the other dragons was because he coveted the immortality that they had and he didn't. Why would he have broken his own existence as a dragon by tearing his scales away and then gone on to hate other dragons for having scales? It doesn't quite make sense to me.
It could just be that the opening cinematic was his original coloring and getting crystals into his body created the skin texture we see later.
>>47165372
>Why would he have broken his own existence as a dragon by tearing his scales away and then gone on to hate other dragons for having scales? It doesn't quite make sense to me.
Because he didn't want to die.
>no i swear gwyn im on your side
>see i tore my scales off and everything
He's the ultimate Quisling.
>>47165346
Huh, got me there.
I still think the other four a too good a fit to dismiss though.
>>47165365
>Why did they have the Throne of Want originally before Vendrick nicked it?
Is it confirmed that the giants had the throne, though? All I remember was the giants having some sort of "prize." Aldia experimented on giants while trying to figure out how to screw the cycle, so maybe the "prize" was a bunch of giant prisoners. Plus, the throne and the kiln in which it sits seem pretty hard to ship.
>How did the giant kingdom get founded in the first place?
No clue. Maybe they appoint the almighty tallest as their leader.
>>47165405
Could be, but why not just buy his own life by squeeling about the lightning?
>>47165419
I think the thematic elements are definitely there and intentional, but I'm also sure that the development team doesn't want to explicitly link the souls with complementary aspects of duality to avoid the cliche.
>>47165433
I wouldn't trust a scaly, would you? If you ain't softskin, you gonna be walkin'.
>>47165365
>So giants are fundamentally just a subspecies of proto-Hollow? Why are they so huge compared to other people, especially the unhollowed ones apparently employed as blacksmiths and soldiers in Lordran?
I dont know for sure on this. Your guess is as good as mine.
>What exactly was the Giant's Kinship in DS2?
A more accurate Japanese translation of it would be "The Resonance with the Giants". Kinship isnt in the Japanese text.
Kinship implies that we are of the Giants blood. Like we are their brother.
Resonance is to evoke memories and emotions. Nashandra couldnt control the golems because she couldnt travel through the memories and obtain resonance with the giants like you did.
>Why did they have the Throne of Want originally before Vendrick nicked it?
I thought the Giants had the power to create Golems, which is what Vendrick stole and what he used to create Drangleic with.
> How did the giant kingdom get founded in the first place?
No idea.
>But in DS3 the other canon memeber of the covenant seems to imply there's only enough juice left for one person to ascend as a dragon, implying there's no more dragon spirits around either.
You have dozens if not hundreds of the husk of Dragonkin that achieved Dragonhood. Its not dying out, the Human world is just dying. The Dragonkin meditated so long they literally became statues, they didnt just die.
>>47165346
Gwyn and WoI are hot. Manus and Nito are cold. Easy.
>>47165405
It always came to me more like that he was actively looking to stab the other dragons in the back. Dunno, could be he was an asshole from birth and tore off his scales to convince Gwyn but I always got more of the feeling that he was an anomaly and bitter to the other dragons because of that.
>>47162254
As much as I love the Dark Souls story telling formula, and the speculation it entails, I'd give my right testicle for a story driven, open world RPG like the Witcher with dark souls combat instead of float mashy shit
>>47165538
that makes me wonder what Nioh is going to be like, story-wise.
from what I've seen of the combat, it looks great, but from a narrative perspective I know nothing.
>>47165469
The giants did have the power to create golems per se-Vendrick did a lot of torturous experimentation in trying to analyse the soul on giant prisoners, and through his research he found a way to transfer giant souls into stone golem bodies-like the things you see colliding with each other to form a path in DS2's first end. Seems kinda pointless by itself given giants naturally seem stone-like so I assume the process' point was more to somehow subjugate the giants under a rightful king i.e. a powerful soul bearer's control
>>47160081
>The Untended Graves are in the past
I am not so sure. I think Firelink might be in the future. Or a pocket of time with a possible future, Or something.
The Unkindled Graves are contiguous with the greater world. You don't get there through a portal or porting through bonfire; you can walk from the Twin Princes room to the dark Shrine and vice versa. I think the Untended Graves are the present and if one version of Firelink Shrine is fake, it's the one we start the game in, not the darkened one.
The Kiln of the First Flame seems to be the far future of the unlit shrine; the domains of the Lords have been drawn so close together they have broken and twisted together.
I'm 90% sure that the Untended Graves is the present (that is, the time we spend the majority of the game in, the time when the Lords of Cinder have risen and Aldritch has invaded Anor Londo) and the Kiln of the First Flame is the future.
I'm not sure what Firelink Shrine is; a sideways pocket of time made by Ludleth maybe? A possible future where there are still embers to reignite the flame? But I don't think it's in the present day.
>>47165711
*didn't
>>47165718
P. sure that Firelink and Untended are the same place approached from different directions.
>>47163409
The Ancient Dragon might be a fraud, a fake or a transfigured Giant. But it's definitely not a wyvern; four legs.
>>47165346
Fire is hot, dark is cold.
>>47165796
Your mom's dark is quite warm.
>>47165808
Thanks.
>>47165738
Except you're totally wrong if you think about it for like five seconds
>>47165841
Like how.
>>47165841
>>47165873
The doorkeeper was dead all along. Why can't Firelink have been dead all along?
If the Chosen Undead had taken Seath's crystal could he have done the eternal reincarnation thing?
>mfw Duke's Dear Freyja, being Seath's reincarnation, is accompanies by lots of babby spiders
>mfw Seath reincarnated into a female and got fucked by some other giant spider to spawn a brood of minion-children specifically to help him murder dragons better
>>47165908
I son't think Seath's actually reincarnating.
Freyja ate/absorbed his soul and got huge, similarly to how the Iron King fused with Gwy's soul to become balrog thingie.
Oceiros turned into a dragon hybrid thing by studying lore concerning Seath and presumably experimenting on himself.
>>47165873
If it's the same place just approached from different directions, then why is it so dark? Why is Gundyr there again? Where did everyone in the shrine go? Where's the fire?
Not the same place.
Well, yeah, the same place, but not at the.. same.. time? Dimension? I don't know.
>>47166017
But Manscorpion Tark says he was, albeit that he was actually something called the Writhing Ruin and Freyja was his host.
I presumed Oceiros' transfiguration was a byproduct of his bloodline, but ultimately catalysed by somehow becoming the host of Seath's soul since he looks like him.
>>47166085
>But Manscorpion Tark says he was, albeit that he was actually something called the Writhing Ruin and Freyja was his host.
I think that's Seath's soul though, not his consciousness
>>47166192
The fact that the Writhing Ruin took possession of something (the spider that would become Freyja) implies agency, and thus, consciousness. Judging by the dead dragon in Freyja's lair, it's probably safe to assume that Freyja really was simply the latest of the forms being used by Ol' Scaleless.
>>47166252
>The fact that the Writhing Ruin took possession of something (the spider that would become Freyja) implies agency, and thus, consciousness.
Freyja didn't seem particularly conscious to me.
And none of the other souls seem to have transitioned into DaS3.
>>47166301
She was plenty conscious. Conscious enough to hunt the player in NG+, respond to stimuli, and choose the Seath-iest nest of all. Tark's master had enough sapience to take multiple forms and "seethe," indicating the ability to feel some sort of emotion. She just didn't communicate with the PC, which is par for the course for most/all of the other bosses.
>>47166301
>none of the other souls
I've been trying to figure that out too. For what it's worth back when he had the crystal Seath seemed to be genuinely invulnerable until it got broke, so if any of them survived it'd be him.
Let's see-demons dying out implies the last traces of the Witch are gone for good. The Pilgrim Butterflies which IIRC bust out of the genuine undead left when they hollow at this point of the cycle (Pontiff Sulyvain gets some wings similar to the butterflies' near the end of his bossfight, dunno if that's more indicative of him finally hollowing or because he messed with mixing miracles with sorcery, pyromancy and hexes) implies death's hold is breaking too-and therefore Nito's gone. And Gwyn's only around as the First Flame's last resort.
Yeah. Not sure what to make of this really, other than Oceiros' similariy to Seath's shape is more presence than any of the other Lords have.
>>47166344
>more presence than any of the other Lords have
Gwyn, at the very least, is present as the Soul of Cinder's second phase. The moves, the music, and the powers all point to Gwyn's personality taking over during that part of the fight.
>>47166447
No argument here.
Ironic given what's mentioned above that he's fighting for the exact opposite of what he started out fighting for. I wonder if his flame powers were gained from his time as Ichorous Earth/the Old Iron King since as a Lord his soul gave power over light and lightning, not fire.
>>47166340
>She was plenty conscious. Conscious enough to hunt the player in NG+, respond to stimuli, and choose the Seath-iest nest of all.
Should have written sapient.
My point is that even if Seath is reincarnating, by now he'd be completely insane.
Oceiros is pretty loony, but there seemed to have been mmethod to his madnees, at leaast in the beginning.
>>47166494
The fire powers probably came from his time in the kiln from way back in DS1. He had a flaming sword even back then, before DS2 and the Old Iron King.
Plus, there's all the other Lords of Cinder in the SoC. Their skills definitely contributed to the SoC's abilities, as we see with the first phase which mimics some of the player builds of oldtfw no Giantdad phase.
>>47166543
True, although how much of that sanity is from the host himself rather than Seath's possession? How much time has Seath had to really dig his claws into Oceiros' mind? Alternately, can we truly describe Freyja as "insane" by our standards when she doesn't communicate with the PC? As far as we saw, Freyja pretty much did sane spider things. Eat, hunt, nest, breed. She ate souls, but then again, everyone does that. We don't really get a look into her thought processes.
>>47166606
>True, although how much of that sanity is from the host himself rather than Seath's possession?
I think the main crux of the thing for me is the possession itself.
I don't see any evidence for Oceiros being anything but Logan further down the road; no need for Seath to be directly involved at all.
>>47166733
>Logan
Didn't he go completely hollow and fight the Chosen Undead in DS1?
>>47166755
Again, suboptimal choice of words.
I meant he was on the same path as Logan was; trying to make himself into a dragon, probably through his crytal magic. He just got further than Logan.
>>47162254
that pdf is amazing, Anon. Absolutely fucking beautiful.
![maxresdefault[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/hflWAGl.jpg "maxresdefault[1]")
![Mbpw5Zx[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/Z5GWvVy.jpg "Mbpw5Zx[1]")
![c4rHqCk[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/WOeNCIa.jpg "c4rHqCk[1]")
![latest[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/Fh3GYev.jpg "latest[1]")
![latest[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/SLWPg5L.jpg "latest[1]")
![aoz8kgx8pzknypz7z38n[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/t82emDz.jpg "aoz8kgx8pzknypz7z38n[1]")
![dark-soul-3-wiki-skill-reset[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/hfw2g0m.jpg "dark-soul-3-wiki-skill-reset[1]")
