Humanity during its golden age is talked about as an unstoppable force that could beat Orcs,Eldar pretty much every race in the universe easily. Yet humanity in the current age has trouble fighting all these races now? What downgraded happened exactly? As far as I know Space Marines, Imperial guard etc etc are all the same now as they were back then?
>>47152266
Depends on which bit you mean by 'Golden Age'
> Humans in the DAoT
Had all those wacky STCs that haven't been recovered yet.
> Humans in the Great Crusade
Had the Emperor and Primarchs.
Tech, basically.
What the Guard and Space Marines use now is just what the Imperium mostly remember how to build without it exploding or trying to kill people.
old eldar didn't even consider golden age humanity worth forming a solid opinion about. don't think humanity would've been able to do anything to them other than briefly interrupt their hedonistic torture/sex-parties.
>>47152266
Chaos, Necrons, Tyranids all showed up and started spreading them thin. Humanity lost half of it's forces to Chaos their God is basically a comatose navigation computer.
Along with The Emperor, they also lost most of the Primarchs in one form or another and they acted as the main military/social leaders. So now Humanity is spread thin, out numbered, betrayed, and demoralized.
>>47152266
Space Marines and Primarchs are Emperor's creation. They didn't have Astartes, bolters or special pattern power armor back in DAoT. Despite that Admechs can adjust old STCs like land speeders and centurions to their needs and keep pretending they can't develop anything useful or fix old stuff.
>>47152266
>Eldar
But that's just false.
For starters, Humanity as you know it is extinct. Humans in 40k are the genetic offshoot of the Stone Men - Lower Human Caste known to be hardy but not particularly bright. The ruling castes were driven into extinction.
>>47152266
Oh not at all.
You're thinking of the time of the Emperor, the grand crusade and all that.
Apart from the Emperor himself, they're all dogshit compared to the Dark Age of Technology (as the Golden Age is now known).
The Imperium is pretty much squatting in its ruins, and using what bits they can understand.
>>47152413
I heard that the Men of Stone were normal humans, the Men of Iron were machines and the Men of Gold were psykers.
>>47152413
That's a dumb interpretation of the fluff
Chaos happened. You can't use an electric toothbrush without Slaanesh turning it into a demonic vibrator in your mouth.
>>47152266
>Humanity during its golden age is talked about as an unstoppable force that could beat Orcs,Eldar pretty much every race in the universe easily.
Not really no. The Necrons were sleeping and we were second only to the Eldar, but strong enough they didn't fuck with us too much.
>Yet humanity in the current age has trouble fighting all these races now? What downgraded happened exactly?
The War of Iron happened. Skynet became self aware, the Cylons attacked the Twelve Colonies and the Geth took Rannoch.
The AI rebelled and everything went to shit.
We survived, somehow, but now all the other species that couldn't touch us before suddenly smelled blood in the water and we got fucked again.
Then the Emps pulled some shit together and set about freeing and uniting the scattered survivors and building a new Human Empire ... then Chaos happened and we got fucked AGAIN.
>As far as I know Space Marines, Imperial guard etc etc are all the same now as they were back then?
You clearly don't know anything about the setting. Those things didn't even exist then. The Space Marines were created by Emps and the Guard was formed after the Heresy.
>>47152266
I think we have to remember that humanity in no way was homogeneous. Look at today. You have countries with all the bells and whistles while on the other side of the globe there's tribes living in jungles who have never even seen a white man, let alone any modern technology.
When you really read the fluff, you find stuff like Predators being the principle battle tanks of DAoT humans (IA vol. 2), so it's quite possible vast majority of human worlds were at best non-shit Imperial in terms of technology. The peaks of human technology, the ships with dark energy slings and gravity furnaces, were probably limited to the very core of the empire, the Sol system and such. They might have been powerful, but they did not have the numbers nor the capability to police all the colonies nor fight the major powers of the galaxy, such as the Eldar. They could have isolated skirmishes, but if the full might of the Eldar empire came down on humans, they would have collapsed.
>>47152266
Eldar and DAoT humans were about even. Fighting each other would've been to costly. And the Eldar were past their prime anyway, only hedonism now.
What I don't understand is, where the hell have the men of iron gone? They implode the entirety of human space from within and just disappear without a trace.
>>47152481
I feel like the War of Iron is overblown. The main reason for it's destructiveness is that it coincided with the beginning of the birth of Slaanesh when all those Warp Storms started appearing. Xenos couldn't attack humanity because most species were fucked transportation wise. But if you had natives ready to go wild or you didn't develop an immediate hate for Psykers then yeah you were fucked.
Also he clearly mixed up DAoT with Great Crusade when it comes to the Golden Age of Humanity.
The golden era was even before the emperor had showed himself to humanity yet.
So space marines were not a thing yet, but humanity did not really need them back then anyways.
You see, there were forces similar to that of the guard, but think of it as if every guardsmen had armor better then powerarmor and weapons that were way more powerful than that of a bolter.
AI's that were fighting entire battles for the humans, makeing casualties a 0. (This was also a reason the machines rebelled agains humanity, they kinda got tierd of getting shot at for the humans.)
It were at the point were humans did not have to make an efort for anything. Machines did it all from our daily needs to as I said erlier, our battles for us.
This meant that with time, humanity were at its core, weakened. So when the machines flipped us the bird we got really spooked and kinda paniced.
Thus, after the war against the men-of-iron humanity were damaged and broken in more ways then one.
Then warpstorms showed up and made jumps hard next to impossible. leading to alot of planets to be crushed under its own weight. No food or toilet paper could be transported.
This was the final blow, sent us back to the stoneage and we've been working our way up from there since then. Only we know not to create some stuff like AI's for they may kill us all.
So we are limited when it comes to progress in the 40k universe, since we are so afraid of our past to repeat itself.
I may have fucked up the lore here and there, but thats what I understand it to be in sort terms.
Tzeentch, the god of hope and most powerful god of the age, got ripped apart by the envious Chaos Gods, Nurgle and Khorne. This triggered the Age of Strife and the Iron Men Rebellion.
>>47152528
The Eldar were still in their prime, their hedonism was a result of that and both sides were using robotic armies so the skirmishes they did have weren't particularly terrible. Human Men of Iron couldn't get close to the Eldar Border without getting blown the fuck out by the Eldar defenses.
>>47152548
>>47152266
>As far as I know Space Marines, Imperial guard etc etc are all the same now as they were back then?
lol wut? Are you thinking about 30k? 30k was not humanity's golden age. 30k was the beginning of the Imperial age; the dark age of technology was 10k years before that
see pic for how to understand the difference between 40k human tech and humanity's technology at the pinnacle of pre-Age of Strife civilisation. Humanity at its peak was coming close to Necron-levels of tech (possibly because they looted Necron technology from Mars). 40k is just a pale shadow of the apex of mankind's civilisation
>>47152587
>Human Men of Iron couldn't get close to the Eldar Border without getting blown the fuck out by the Eldar defenses
>both sides were using robotic armies so the skirmishes they did have weren't particularly terrible
Source? Sounds like Eldar wankery. Fluff rarely touches DAoT and especially other races and galaxy at large at this time period. Additionally, Eldar don't use AI and they would use safe and obedient robots if they could. Eldar have to reanimate wraithbone bodies with soulstones and many despise it.
>>47152266
Human Psykers as well as Chaos happened. Every untrained psyker is a potential vector for Chaos.
They used to have AI to help them, both for things like development and calculation, which let them have more miniaturized technology. AI also let them build disposable machine armies. Now AI tries to kill anyone and/or join Chaos so they're stuck with cogitators that may or may not include wetware.
Nearly every colony used to have full STC's with which to easily mass produce produce tech, or distribute info on how to make it. Most of that would be on par with the best IoM shit. (With exceptions.)
DAoT Humanity didn't have as many worlds to defend as the IoM had at it's height. This is because of the Great crusade conquering tons of former Eldar exodite planets and those belonging to many other Xenos. IoM is spread out fighting more enemies while using weaker tech.
>As far as I know Space Marines, Imperial guard etc etc are all the same now as they were back then?
Space Marines didn't exist and were unnecessary due to the aforementioned machines. Far flung colonies may have had militia using things like Predator tanks and Rhino APC's.
>>47152413
I always found it weird that the article that mentioned that never gave a name to humans that came before if they're not the stone men or whatever..
The Tau fits the place that humanity had during the early times of the Dark Age of Technology. I think humanity didn't get psykers or warp travel until far later at the very end of this age.
>>47152481
You forgot the warpstorms after the pyhrric victory against the Men of Iron.
So it's: Skynet, followed by warpstorms and a shitload more psykers, which lead to deamons everywere, unless they were killed fast/mastered their skills fast.
Then most of the Xenos that were either allied or at least kept to themselves deemed "fuck mankind, we conquer/genocide now."
While this went down the human worlds with high populations, that could not support those people with their own ressources (Terra,Mars among others), starved and ultimately went into total war for the last scaps.
That went 5000 years.
Some centuries before the end of that shit the Mechanicum formed on Mars, a bit later big E started to reunite Terra.
The Cogbros found ways to traverse the warp storms from time to time and sent out fleets. These fleets founded the first forge worlds.
The Clusterfuck finally ended when the eldar did it: They fucked Slaanesh into existence.
It's birthing scream opened the Eye of Terror which wrecked most of the Eldar worlds. Slaanesh nommed their souls and gods.
It also calmed the warp storms, so the great crusade could begin.
>>47152561
The war of Iron as you call it was: All of mankinds tech used by incedible AI vs. mankind.
Mankind won by destroying their own technological base, their AI.
>>47152587
Yet there were human colonists on Cadia...
Pretty coexistance if you ask me.
>>47152548
>What I don't understand is, where the hell have the men of iron gone? They implode the entirety of human space from within and just disappear without a trace.
They are still there, hiding in plain sight...
Masters of disguise, two factions wage a secret war across the Galaxy!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ae-Pl-Q34ng
Note that all history of Dark of Age of Technology comes from Imperium's utterly corrupted, misinterpreted, and decayed records.
>>47152664
It is Eldar wankery from the Eldar codex, though I forget the edition. We already know everything was automated in the Eldar Empire, that's what allowed their hedonism in the first place. Craftworld Eldar have to use Wraithbone constructs because it's largely the only material available to them. That problem wouldn't exist for the Homeworld Eldar who had an entire half an arm of the Galaxy reserved for themselves
>>47152653
More like the later battle, in which that pilot was ripped out of his mech. Sans arms and legs.
>>47152576
Cool idea actually. But you forgot that Tzeentch is also plotting against himself. The galaxy grew stagnant two superpowers living (mostly) peaceful side by side... TIME FOR CHANGE BITCHES!
>>47152562
Powerarmor is an STC, it's save to assume rank and file wore them.
>>47152726
The warp storms were the birth of slanesh in fact the eye of terror is the epicentre of the old eldar empire.
>>47152266
The Eldar controlled the galaxy back then. Humanity basically existed on it's borders and constantly had to skirt around them.
That isn't, of course, to say that they were significantly more powerful than they were now, just that the Eldar were even more powerful than that.
Humanity was crippled and left pretty retarded by the Age of Strife, but the Eldar were left almost extinct.
>>47152867
It should be logically as you say.
But in the fluff the thunder warriors are the first men that wear a proto-power armor.
>>47152920
It's also not an STC. They redesigned power armor fairly significantly multiple times over the course of the Great Crusade.
>>47152867
>>47152920
We do know that terminator armor is an STC Pattern. Used for Reactor maintenance techs iirc.
>>47152875
No. That's a much later event. The Birth of Slaanesh was a good thing for humanity broken into independent worlds. Warp travel was impossible during the Age of Strife. The Birth of Slaanesh which gave birth to the Eye of Terror also made Warp travel possible once more.
>>47152806
>Note that all history of Dark of Age of Technology comes from Imperium's utterly corrupted, misinterpreted, and decayed records.
I like how this whole thread is exactly like a group of Imperial scholars debating about the Dark Age of Technology. Everybody knows some vague bits of information, but none has a clear picture of what actually happened.
>>47152548
IIRC humanity reached FTL when Gellar field and Navigators were discovered. Machines needed human navigators to travel between worlds. Without them men of iron were trapped on their worlds and later destroyed by scavenging Orks and Great Crusade.
Which opens another question. How the fuck Big E managed to find surviving Navigators on Terra? Thousands years after the disaster they would be wiped out in psyker purges or simply die out as their abilities were no longer needed. Did the Emperor navigate the Warp himself before he found Navigator families? Can other psykers do that?
>>47152950
Mars launched fleets over the course of the Age of Strife during temporary calm periods to found other Forge Worlds. Odds are they would have had some navigators.
>>47152920
Semmed to got hit by the retcon hammer. In the second or thirs HH novel Horus fleet finds a human realm which used power armor for their rank and file. According to them, that would be only naturall as it was an STC pattern and they had a working STC.
I would say that the Sm power Armor was developed from corrupted files and half rotten scrapped the Emperors engineers and later the Mechanicum found. Hence the different versions.
The MK1 would be just what they found on Terra and was was necessary at that time, so no hermetical sealing or powered leg armor.
>>47152938
Slaanesh is the God of perfect warp travel
Remember Space Marines, when you're about to jump into the Warp, always remember to thank Slaanesh. Clear Immateriums and a bright Astronomicon will come to you.
>>47152974
Mars had some actually. They died out eventually.
Part of the treaty of Mars was making the Navigator houses subserviant to the Mechanicum to replace their lost ones.
All this tech talk has me wanting to play a sci-fi game or read some neat sci-fi stories.
Any suggestions? Just finished reading Asimov's "The Last Question" which is concerning the evolution of man alongside an advanced thinking machine.
>>47152576
Wasn't this also canon in Fantasy? His pieces become the first mortal magic while in 40k it brought psykers to everyone not Eldar. I think he even got a Chaos Daemon who seeks for the missing bits.
>>47152704
They had some warp capabilities, which got better as the age went on - according to lexicanum, the full warp drive and gellar field was made by M18, and navigators were also developed at some point, with the DAoT generally reckoned to be from M15/18 - M22/25
>>47152548
They were incredibly dangerous, leaving them around would be a huge mistake.
It's worth noting that, other than the orks (probably), none of the old races have anything like their max power:
The Necrons can't recreate their wonders, the weapons the used against the C'tan were destroyed and the Silent King broke his command protocols, leaving them divided against each other.
The core of the eldar empire exploded, leaving only those who'd run away, or who were hiding in their pleasure-realms; those who remain have much less power, especially psyker powers
Humans have lost most of their DAoT tech and the armies of the Men of Iron - the tech that survives is near irreplaceable for most of the good stuff, and the best stuff they can replace still takes decades
>>47153017
>>47153005
You should drop HH altogether.
Astartes armor is designed to have more functions than regular power armor. Bodies and armor of the marines are built to work together. Mechanicus engineers could make mistakes while designing it or sacrifice some qualities.
>>47153039
Foundation? Forever war? The city and the stars?
According to /tg/ Dune is a blast. Haven't read it yet, though.
>>47152266
Effectively the whole story is about Islam. The God Emperor is Mohammad that's why they all want to die for him to get their virgins. They stopped making machinery and just started praying to it like retards, effectively the same way ISIS has inherited smart phones and stuff.
Compare ISIS to any developed, civilized army and then you'll know why the contemporary imperium sucks.
>>47152950
The Emperor was a master of Gene manipulation. Made the Primarchs and all that. He might have just thrown some together, or he found some humans with the recessive traits of Navigators during the Age of Strife and orchestrated them to have kids until they popped back up into existance when he needed them.
>>47153090
Dropped it long ago.
Just thought it worth mentioning.
>>47152936
Was adapted from, it's not a direct STC - even the designs for land raiders, land speeders, baneblades and the rhino (which comes from RH1N0) aren't full STCs, they're just highly complete fragments and printouts that can be pieced back together
>>47152938
IIRC, the storms built and built during the age of strife until the Birth - so not impossible, just horrifically difficult
>>47153100
/pol/ as always: nope. How's your boyfriend, did you two adopt a child now or not?
>>47152562
>When humanity were the Tau.
Anime, not even once.
They were infected by the Imperial equivalent of MLP.
>>47152823
Hope you're not claiming 40k takes place inside a simulation.
I like to think that half of the designs used by the Imperium are actually movie props or something from the style from the year 2527.
>>47152806
>Note that all information in the Imperium comes from their utterly corrupted, misinterpreted, and decayed records.
fixed
>>47153298
Weren't all, or at least most, of their warships actually re-purposed civilian transports?
>>47152322
This is a false notion - eldar use the webway, a limited form of travel with limited destinations. That is, they can't go wherever they like. Add to this the fact that, during the DAoT, the eldar are murderfucking themselves into destruction.
Thus, it seems highly unlikely that the eldar and DA humans ever even met. The Craftworlders will have interacted; but this is the time when the craftworlds were still relatively small.
>>47152266
As I understand it, a lot of the military hardware the Imperium uses in 40k was, during the DAoT (which I assume is the golden age you're talking about) was considered to be not good enough for military standard issue.
Terminator armor was originally for hot repairs on reactors, baneblades were originally tractors or some shit, lasguns were probably the AK-47s of the setting (cheap, readily available, very reliable, but the army has better), and so on. They're used by the Imperium in warfare because that's the best that survived.
Trying to find that article on Lexicanum about a ship some chaos warlord found. It was supposed to be made up of silver and light and predated the age of strife. Had enough room aboard for a fighter wing.
>>47153585
>note that all information comes from utterly corrupted, misinterpreted and decayed records.
Fixed again
>>47153901
Here we go found it.
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Slaughtersong
My understanding is that most of the surviving worlds from Old Night were the ones that went full /pol/ and killed everyone who looked funny, such as psykers. The ones that played nice, and were the most advanced, didn't do this and came down with a serious case of daemons. This meant that the most primitive worlds during the Dark Age were the most advanced during the Great Crusade. In short the factors that made humanity rise up were the exact same ones that damned it later.
I clearly recall one of the older rulebooks talking about how the last moments of the Dark Age were marked by absurd numbers of psykers and some attempts to keep them under control. I always thought it was clear that the psyker population has been increasing for thousands of years by 40K.
![[Black Library] - Warhammer Monthly - 36 (wapazoid) 04.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/otwa1zl.jpg "[Black Library] - Warhammer Monthly - 36 (wapazoid) 04.jpg")
>>47152548
![[Black Library] - Warhammer Monthly - 36 (wapazoid) 05.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/czTLbzI.jpg "[Black Library] - Warhammer Monthly - 36 (wapazoid) 05.jpg")
>>47154300
![[Black Library] - Warhammer Monthly - 36 (wapazoid) 06.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/1npABHG.jpg "[Black Library] - Warhammer Monthly - 36 (wapazoid) 06.jpg")
>>47154314
![[Black Library] - Warhammer Monthly - 36 (wapazoid) 07.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/hbVMCwL.jpg "[Black Library] - Warhammer Monthly - 36 (wapazoid) 07.jpg")
>>47154337
![[Black Library] - Warhammer Monthly - 36 (wapazoid) 08.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/asiBXZC.jpg "[Black Library] - Warhammer Monthly - 36 (wapazoid) 08.jpg")
>>47154353
>>47153901
He didn't find it, he left it there. It's possible the dude was a Sensei. I remember reading that he appeared in another story, where he talked about the Men of Iron in a very personal manner.
Another ship of note is the Blade of Infinity, which predates known human warp travel, yet was lost in the warp and appears from time to time, usually followed by bad things.
![[Black Library] - Warhammer Monthly - 36 (wapazoid) 09.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/NY2dK6F.jpg "[Black Library] - Warhammer Monthly - 36 (wapazoid) 09.jpg")
>>47154362
![[Black Library] - Warhammer Monthly - 36 (wapazoid) 10.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/eT8eD52.jpg "[Black Library] - Warhammer Monthly - 36 (wapazoid) 10.jpg")
>>47154384
![[Black Library] - Warhammer Monthly - 36 (wapazoid) 11.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/xop644Z.jpg "[Black Library] - Warhammer Monthly - 36 (wapazoid) 11.jpg")
>>47154399
Whats strange to me is why no one outside of the Admech starts to invent/advance on their own.
Also their complete inability to reverse enginer anything.
It gets a bit silly sometimes.
>>47152266
>As far as I know Space Marines, Imperial guard etc etc are all the same now as they were back then?
Back in the day the Marines WERE the Guard, and Titans were MBTs.
>>47152456
The Men of Gold didn't survive to the Unification Wars I think. They were dependent on the Men of Stone and suffered greatly to the Men of Iron.
Psykers are still around and if anything increasing in number and potency.
>>47152266
Everything
>Emperor
Can no longer lead, and his greatest projects have ended in failure. No webway for mankind, no Primarchs, no Great Crusade. Humanity is now forced to rely on bureaucrats and leaders who literally or only a fraction as competent as he was in commanding the Imperium.
>Space Marines
Split into chapters now. Any force against the Imperium would feel the might of a legion slamming into them. Now, rather than forming the unbreakable wall of a legion, they are split into a thin film across the entire Imperium, threatening to buckle at any time. If not against a threat they weren't expecting, then because someone turns traitor and it takes forever to find out about it.
>The Guard
Relegated to numbers in the Administratum. Under the crushing weight of itself, the Guard's best abilities are seldom used properly anymore. Their supply and deployment are reduced to numbers on paper that some scribe lightyears away rubber stamps. They don't see a regiment that is an expert at city fighting and close quarters combat. They just see a regiment of 1000 soldiers in it, and finds the closest warzone that needs an extra thousand bodies, regardless if it plays to the strengths to that regiment. Also there is a focus on chain of command rather than competence so people who actually know what they are doing tend to get shot, or promoted to a position where they no longer know what they hell they are doing.
>Technology
Mechanicus didn't know what they fuck they were doing then, they know even less now. Despite all their expeditions, the Inquisition sending them loads of captured xeno tech, and generally everything they need, the AdMech is basically throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks. They have no process to follow, not means of keeping track of what they learn, or backing up what they know. One fuck up, and all that knowledge is gone. And the Imperium fucks up a lot so...
>Necrons, Tau, and Tyranids
nuff said
>>47154792
Nobody understands it. A 3rd world tribal warrior can operate a machine gun and call on a mobile phone, but you really think they have any understanding of the complex technology that goes into one? Do you, without a wiki?
Technology is next to sorcery to average Imperials and Admech, the only people who know anything about it, do not like to share knowledge. Why would they, their whole power is tied to their ability to control technology. If someone else starts making tech, their power diminishes.
Besides, nothing stops little shops from doing tech (Necromunda gangers, for example. can get creative), it's just that for them to reach wider audience, they'd get the attention of the Admech, and you think they'll award this genius for their innovation or burn them as a heretech to send a message to anyone else trying to stop on their turf?
>>47155050
Someone might read a book at some point. If they did, the admech would fall in a couple of centuries.
>>47155263
What do you think the book contains? Because it's not the 40k lore bible. If it was, it'd sound like flat Earth creationist insanity to them.
>>47155263
>Someone might read a book at some point
You're talking about an Imperium with literal book burning squads. Even in Terra, there are squads assigned flamethrowers to burn away and destroy any records that can't be censored, or if censoring isn't enough.
>>47152266
>Humanity during its golden age is talked about as an unstoppable force that could beat Orcs,Eldar pretty much every race in the universe easily.
Where?
Because fluffwise, Humanity was never even remotely a threat to the Pre-fall Eldar empire.
The Eldar were the top dogs of the galaxy during humanity's "golden age".
>>47153866
m8, the only reason the Eldar exclusively use the webway in modern 40k is Slaanesh. Before their fall, nothing prevented them from using the warp to travel. There is no reason to think that they didn't use both means.
Also, the Eldar knew how to MAKE webway gates, portals, new paths, entire fucking subrealms within it, back then. They could connect it to any fucking place they wanted. They didn't inherit the webway as it is from the old ones, they continued to expand it far after the Old ones were dead.
>>47155637
You're thinking the age of strife. Anon is referring to Emps strolling about curb stomping everything that got in his way.
>>47152528
>Eldar and DAoT humans were about even.
Source: My Ass.
The Eldar have been consistently stated as having been the unopposed masters of the galaxy at the time, both in their codexes, as well as even in the big rule book itself.
Humans were at no point, even a friggin blip on their radar. They were a non threat to the Pre-fall eldar.
There is nothing that supports the claim that DAoT humanity was "about even" with the pre-fall eldar.
>>47155724
Humanity's Golden age was Dark Age of Tech, not Great Crusade era.
>>47155694
>nothing prevented them from using the warp to travel
Nothing stops you from walking everywhere, yet people just don't.
Also: Khorne, Tzeentch, Nurgle.
>>47152664
>Additionally, Eldar don't use AI and they would use safe and obedient robots if they could.
Modern Eldar don't. The pre fall Eldar did. The codexes state that they pretty much lived in a post scarcity society, where everything was automated, and the Asurmen novel mentions that the Eldar war machinery was largely automated and fought the wars of the Eldar for them. This automation ended up giving the Eldar all the time they wanted to do whatever the fuck they pleased, which in turn, led to the fall.
>>47155774
If civ has taught me anything, you can have more than one Golden Age.
Plus I think the reference to Space Marines in OP should be a clear message that he wasn't referring to DAoT
>>47155694
Except you know all those warp storms that lead to the Age of Strife.
>>47154792
Many STC designs aren't designs as we'd understand them in the traditional sense. In this millennia we have 'templates' and some magos somewhere will make a new one. It's not like an old STC template though. The new ones will say exactly how to make it. Make the bore .50 inches in diameter, make it 18 inches long, relief cut here, thread here... That's not how a real STC works.
The STC contains information for an AI to 'know' how to make something. The AI will try a hundred billion times a second to remove virtual chunks of iron from a virtual billet, and try to load a virtual projectile in it until it fires. It will continue doing this until it works in its mind. When it works and fulfills all of the requirements of the STC, it will publish it as a local pattern for use with available materials. That is why they are gibberish and make no sense. You MUST be an AI to understand them, and process them impossibly fast in order to create the pattern in a reasonable time frame. That's why an STC could make a 'Rhino' from ceramite instead of steel, and still have it be better than anything we could make.
http://www.damninteresting.com/on-the-origin-of-circuits/
THIS is the sort of antenna a STC makes.
It works across all frequencies and is a fraction of the weight of something we could make with anything like the same performance.
>>47155877
Which only occurred towards the climax of the fall, a tiny portion of the overall Eldar empire's existence. There is no reason to assume that the Eldar didn't use warp travel back then, when Slaanesh still didn't exist.
They sure as hell had the technology, seeing how the Craftworld Eldar, who, by the way, were the equivalent of a bunch of redneck truckers of the pre fall Eldar empire, have that technology and regularly use it, just not for long jumps. Picture fucking related.
>>47155900
Also this sort of evolutionary technology is prime breeding ground for chaos. You could have a perfectly good and functional STC Rhino, but there's a hidden gene in there that was no selected out by the STC, the gene make it pulp its pilots when certain nearly impossible conditions are met, and seems totally unpredictable to us.
>>47155933
I still doubt they'd use it if they have the safer webway. Being witness to the fuckery of the Old Ones would probably leave a sour note on warp travel with them.
>>47155900
It's not that it's hard to read STCs, it's just that we don't have any STCs. All STC designs Imperium has are just hard copies people made, possibly of things they were very likely to use a lot, so having a print with you instead of having to pop back to the STC all the time made sense.
I'm sure Rhinos are made with plasteel and ceramite, just like all the other Imperial tanks.
>>47155900
Source for that? Last time I checked STCs were designed to be as simple to use a possible, a means of rebuilding society from the ground up.
>>47155997
Nonsense, those are local patterns of the STC, not the STC itself.
>>47152945
>>47156022
Head cannon, and I find it much more interesting this way, and it fits the lore better. The official writers aren't cool enough to write about it, it's a new idea, even in sci-fi.
Just the local heresy in my group.
>>47155900
>>47155997
More to the point, a Standard Template Construct didn't just give colonist an optimized blueprint, it told them how to create the entire industrial infrastructure to make those items from the GROUND UP!
The actual STC, and not just the surviving hand copies of the printouts the Imperium clings to, knew how to grow a civilization from the Stone Age all the way into practically magical Hypertech.
>>47156023
Did you even read the post?
>>47156182
Did you? My tech priest is drawing a distinction between a proper STC and its technological genetic parameters to evolve useful technology towards certain goals like 'human's favorite tank' or 'humans favorite gun' vs a pattern on how a particular STC AI happened to evolve a tank on a particular planet for a particular usage case.
See in the article how two FPGA things that did exactly the same thing (differentiate between two audio tones) cease to function if the FPGA pattern from one is put on the other or vice versa. The evolutionary program evolved around particular undetectable manufacturing defects between the two chips and incorporated them in the FPGA programming. That is a particular pattern. Now the STC in Warhammer would be good enough to evolve some replaceable parts within the same pattern if it was part of the genetics for the design, but any patterns man is still using descended from an STC original are like this. Particular implementations of an STC 'gene' The things the mechanicus make any use of are the STC genes. They are incomprehensible and useless without a DAOT AI with a hundred tillion yotaflops or whatever of computations per second that can evolve a tank from basic principles in a useful amount of time.
>>47156269
The things the mechanicus make any use of are the STC genes
*CAN'T make any use of
>>47152945
Except with more heresy.
>>47156422
Have you seen Imperial scholars?
There's at least this much heresy
>>47156549
>14
>Arsia Mons
>Pig latin for "the ass end of the world"
lel
>>47156708
Hold onto your butts.
>>47152266
Basically, 99% of the blueprints for everything exploded, so all the stuff they're using is what they've managed to cobble together to look like the old stuff, or the actual old stuff carefully maintained for thousands of years.
>>47156708
>10
>omnid apertura
>a-hole
>20
>dodecai elevatus
>12 o'clock high
All punsters must hang.
>>47152266
you know how the world today is connected by the internet roads international sea trade phone lines electricity running water imagine if most of that was ruined in a month then think about what would happen to the world.
that's what happened on a galactic scale
>>47152561
my interpretation is that the men of iron took over the humans factories and military industrial complexes so to stop them required a lot of scorched earth strategy to be used so this weakened them severely in terms of fighting power against the xeno's then you have all the demons popping up because of the elder fucking with the warp which also messes up FTL
>>47155694
>>47153866
m89s, I think the reason the dark age of technology ended was because of the eldar at their height murderfucking slaanesh into existence.
A quote was posted in another thread the other week of an eldar whatever trashtalking an inquisitor- neither of whom were alive fifteen thousand years prior- and claiming that the eldar empire had been able to handily beat golden age humanity. Indeterminate whether that's credible, but we might at least suppose it means they coexisted and scrapped on occasion.
>>47160610
I think the elder mostly stayed within the core worlds while humanity spread out everywhere
so mankind has a lot bigger scale but the elder have more power per eldar
so it ends up being border disputes where small teams fought it out without anyone noticing because the leadership of the eldar and humanity knew a war would end horribly
>>47159511
You just take it too literally.
>Dodacai Elevatus
>The Twelfth Mounting
There now it's sounds better.
>>47160705
Reasonable conclusion but
>no canon
>no firsthand accounts
>no unbiased reports
Go figure.
Semi-sane headcanon is probably the best anyone can do.
>>47161301
with the Daot lore being well a dark age I came up with my own lore that doesn't conflict with the present lore of 40K
>>47161368
I think that's what most people try to do for that period.
>>47161447
its more interesting that way
>>47161468
>>47161447
Definitely. The worst thing you can do after hyping primarchs and the emperor as real life figures that are over 9000% past humanity in every way, smarter, stronger, more beautiful... Is have a collection of sci-fi authors write pulp fiction about them, like we could possibly comprehend or write about their over 9000 intellect and the real intricacies of crusade politics.
It's so much better to just take the books as imperial propaganda and not what actually happened.
>>47152266
Many shit hit them at the same time during the end if the golden age, they were hoarding psykers that caused a doom effect on most planets, then their super technology was possesed by daemons and rebelled, then their long time ally xenos stab them at the back while they were killed on the inside.
TL, DR. Doom, terminator, red faction and destroy all humans videogames happened at the same time trough human space.
>>47152413
I wish this meme would die already.
>>47160705
Except there is nothing that supports the idea that humanity was even close to the power of the Pre-fall eldar.
>>47152907
>The Eldar controlled the galaxy back then.
They did but all their empire was located on the galactic West aka the place were the eye of terror is located.
The few that run were the exodites and the Craftworlders and all of them run to parts of the galaxy were Eldar presence was next to none and even then many exodites worlds died to suddenly daemons.
>>47156549
You know that you're trying too hard when you zone your hive spires, strip mines, and whatever passes for suburbs so that they form a giant skull that can be seen from space.
>>47162508
I bet the void dragon had something to do with this
>>47162465
The core of their empire was located there, but not all of it.
There are ancient eldar worlds all over the galaxy, many of which aren't even maiden or exodite worlds.
I've always considered the elder empire to be like the British one lots of pockets scatter about bit still encompassing the globe
>>47152266
I thought they ended up like Dune and had their own little Machine Crusade/Butlerian Jihad where their technology betrayed them, ruined everything, and left humanity collectively terrified of any tech to far advanced, to the point that only the highly restricted tech priests are allowed to even kinda fuck with it
>>47162611
no humanity just doesn't us AI because chaos and necrons corrupted them or some other stuff happened
the problem is innovation can lead to tzench getting involved because lord of change and all that
also other chaos gods might stop it if they the invention takes away some of their power through fixing problems so no more suffering peasants resorting to chaos
there's also the whole if innovation starts everyone will get in on it and there goes the mechanicus power because they have a monopoly on tech
>>47152266
uh shouldn't that thing extend way, way further into the ground
>>47152266
All of humanity's greatest strengths are paths to chaos. The only way to win the battle against xenos is to lose the battle against chaos.
>>47154417
>at the closing of the m41 the tau reach a planet belonging to the Imperium of man, on their superstitious way believe the planet to be haunted
>the earth caste discovered an energy signature leading to some seemingly human structures, protected with stais technology.
>this installations contain few traces of Imperial intervention but undoubtedly of human nature
>the earth caste wonders what kind of technologies can be salvaged.
>lost contact with the earth caste research team
>a single wrecked vessel is recovered and towed to a near sept world for investigation.
>the vessel is set in quarantine until the investigation is completed
>several glitches and what seems faulty equipment are obstructing the research on the vessel data cores.
>a destroyed ork fleet and more tau vessels of the lost fleet are found near the area were tau wreckage was discovered.
>the lose of the expedition team is attributed to the destroyed ork fleet
>the water caste makes the announcement and mentions the bravery of the expedition as they fought to the last against the invaders to the bitter end before surrendering, ultimately defeating what's was called one mayor ork invasion force.
>wreckage is finally send to earth caste installations to make reparations
>glitches and mayor blackouts happen around the world
>sept goes silent
I would like an old human AI dicking around fucking everyone it finds.
>>47153296
>simul
Well, it *is* a wargame. So, technically, yeah, it's a simulated reality.
>>47162455
Except for that time an admech ship was fighting an eldar ship while the magos was poking the computers and the AI revealed itself to still be in there, was shown to be extremely powerful, and, once the eldar was defeated, wiped the mind of the magos of its existence
>>47162907
>one DAoT tech weapon on an ancient ship totally proves that DAoT humanity was equals to pre fall Eldar.
That's not how it works senpai.
Keep in mind that the modern, post fall Eldar posses basically none of the military tech of the Pre Fall Eldar. A DAoT weapon fucking up a post fall Eldar ship, tells us nothing of how it compares to Pre Fall Eldar stuff, seeing how we know barely anything of the Pre-fall Eldar, other than that they were the undisputed masters of the galaxy according to their dexes, and that their war machines were largely automated.
1. The contradiction in the fluff that is the Eldar Empire and Dark Age humanity being at the height of their powers simultaneously is just plain not resolved. Even more bizarrely the Eldar Empire was apparently already a galactic power before the Dark Age even begun, begging the question of how mankind expanded across a million worlds in the first place.
2. The Imperium has shown repeatedly it can go toe-to-toe with the Eldar and Necrons, who are both at or maybe beyond the level of humanity in the Dark Age. Especially the Necrons.
3. The Imperium still has some things that are more or less handed down directly from the dark age. Like the Knights. And vortex weapons. And some ships. They are powerful, but not all-powerful.
The safest conclusion is that though the Imperium's technology is grossly inefficient compared to what they had in the Dark Age, in terms of raw military power they are not that far from their ancestors. And the human population may be far larger as many worlds that were only just settled are hiveworlds in M41.
In M25 they would solve problems by building a better hammer. In M41 they just use more hammers. At the Imperiums height just before the Heresy they were probably very close indeed to their ancestors power, if not their knowledge.
>>47162968
>Even more bizarrely the Eldar Empire was apparently already a galactic power before the Dark Age even begun
How is that bizarre?
The Eldar were around 60 million years ago.
Them being a galactic power far before Dark age of tech humanity makes complete sense.
Galaxy is a big place, so humanity still could have plenty of room to expand.
>>47155900
So if this 100 transistor FPGA thing is so incredible, why doesn't that guy just take a 7 billion transistor Xilinx FPGA and tell it to optimize for being able to program an AI?
>>47162933
>other than that they were the undisputed masters of the galaxy according to their dexes
Mind you, I think that puts them alongside like 3 other groups with that claim.
40k is full of a lot of ego.
>>47162759
I would love that story honestly. Pissed off crotchety old AI that has no idea of the state of the galaxy going around and fucking up every race's shit and running off laughing. I could get behind that.
>>47163186
Who else besides the Eldar is actually stated as having been undisputed masters of the galaxy at that period of time? Mankind certainly wasn't, nor were the Orks, or Necrons, as the former were disorganized and the later were still asleep.
>>47163231
I was going more 'The Necrons claim to have been more powerful than the Eldar in their prime'. They were asleep but according to them (Paraphrase) 'we totally could have kicked their asses like we did last time'
>>47152266
>What downgraded happened exactly?
Schism with the Primarchs where Chaos took over half of the Imperium's top forces, and also the Emperor died.
The Emperor, in addition to being ridiculously powerful, was also damn good at managing an empire. He'd make temporary alliances with the Xenos in order to beat back some other Xenos, and he wasn't as strict with the HERESY for independent innovation in technology and tactics.
Make no mistake - Emps' Imperium was far more vulnerable to Chaos than the current one, and that was its downfall. Would've done better vs. any other race though.
>>47152266
Humanity started fighting itself due to Chaos corruption.
>>47163251
Yeah, but Necrons were asleep for like 60 million years.
During that time, in which DAoT took place, the Eldar were the top dogs of the galaxy.
>>47163321
Yeah but humanity and eldar did reach a non aggression pact during the DAoT.
>>47163377
Source?
>>47163251
I doubt they were able to. With current numbers of Necrons, their tech supreme to Eldar and fact that Eldar didn't do it, I think it just Eldar wishful thinking.
>>47163722
Why didn't the Necrons kick the Eldar asses then?
>>47152528
>Eldar and DAoT humans were about even.
lol nope. Undisputed masters were eldar.
>>47152528
If you had said modern eldar and DAoT humans you'd probably be correct.
>>47153058
>losing technology
>>47163933
They were sleeping. They obviously didn't choose the moment to awake, else right after Eldar Fall would be a perfect opportunity to reconquer galaxy.
>>47155263
http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Logicians
>>47164002
>They were sleeping
Because they would get fucked by the Eldar.
>>47164035
Why then Eldar didn't destroy them? Sooner or later they would have to do this - Necron were going to awake sooner or later. Why not destroy them while you at prime of your power? But they didn't. Because they couldn't or at least it would be an equal fight - something that Eldar fear.
>>47164072
Why didn't they destroy the orks? Why not destroy the humans? Don't get me wrong, they should have killed off the Necrons, but the War in Heaven was over and the Eldar enjoyed their rule over the galaxy. We don't really get a satisfying explanation in-universe, but the meta-answer is that if the Eldar would have killed the Necrons, you would not be able to enjoy playing the Necrons.
The answer certainly isn't
>because the Necrons have better tech!
Because armies with superior tech get beaten on a regular basis.
The only "facts" we really know is that the Eldar ruled the galaxy, according to their own codex. And that the Necrons went to sleep. And this doesn't speak for them, not at all.
>>47152653
>That wonderful memerific filename
>>47164072
They tried. Many tomb worlds were wiped out during the stasis by eldar.
>>47153039
The last question is like 20 pages, you cant treat it like a novel! Read the book of the new sun
>>47163968
When will this meme die? The Emperor is the Emperor. That is his name and his title and it is a personal affront to hear it uttered from your foul xeno lips you avian looking motherfucker.
>>47164137
60 million years is a long ass time.
It could be that by the time the Eldar had reached galactic dominance, the tales of Necrons had become just that, tales, no longer seen as a legitimate threat.
>>47152950
Warp drives and Gellar fields allowed for warp travel, though they had to travel much like the Tau did pre-retcon in short warp-jumps.
Navigators allowed for humans to begin travelling vast distances in single attempts with reasonable enough accuracy to justify it.
>>47155954
People call those 'bugs', silly
>>47156269
Imperium does not have STCs. All Imperial tech is derived from a design the STC came up with and then got printed. Imperium only has those prints of STC designs, not a proper STC.
>>47154264
>being tolerant gets you russian and chinese defectors who bring science and stuff with them
>being too tolerant gives you whatever merkel is doing
Makes sense
>>47164654
>too tolerant
There is nothing tolerant about that. It's treating the natives as inferior to be enriched and the refugees as incapable of looking after themselves.
>>47162455
Humanity was well on it's way to reaching that level. The Emperor was even creating his own webway, so humanity would no longer have to rely on warp travel. If it weren't for the Horus Heresy, it wouldn't have been very long before the Imperium attained ore-fall Eldar status, or even better
How quickly would it make a difference if a complete STC was found? One with all the schematics for weapons of war, spaceships, logistical equipment etc?
>>47164137
>Why didn't they destroy the orks? Why not destroy the humans?
Because they weren't a threat?
>but the meta-answer is that if the Eldar would have killed the Necrons, you would not be able to enjoy playing the Necrons
Or where is straight answer - they didn't, because they couldn't.
>Because armies with superior tech get beaten on a regular basis.
Point me to those armies, please. Necrons are still awakening and disfunctional, and fully awaken Tomb Worlds can easily wipe out entire subsectors around them. Eldar winning pretty much every fight they got into, but being smart, most of the time there isn't a fight to got into. And Tau enjoy their small empire ONLY because of high-tech.
>The only "facts" we really know is that the Eldar ruled the galaxy, according to their own codex.
And this doesn't imply in any way that they could've wipe out the Necrons. Imperium certainly can't, and they rule the galaxy now.
>>47164140
Why not all of them?
>They tried.
And failed, because Necrons still exist, and there is millions upon millions of Tomb Worlds.
>>47162455
They had to be. The Eldar only kept to their Core worlds while humanity expanded everywhere. There were colonists on Cadia. And Macharius, millenia after the DAoT, brought previously undiscovered human colonies to the Imperium.
As the other guy said, the Eldar might have been stronger but they did not control the galaxy
>>47164935
>Or where is straight answer - they didn't, because they couldn't.
Well, prove it.
>Point me to those armies, please
Your so loved Necrons get beaten. Eldar aren't invincible. To quote some wiki:
>The terrible wars between the Old Ones and the Necrontyr that followed, known later in Eldar myth as the War in Heaven, would fill a library in their own right, but the Necrontyr could never win. Their superior technology was consistently outmanoeuvred by the Old Ones thanks to their mastery of the Webway portals and Warp Gates.
>Imperium certainly can't, and they rule the galaxy now.
The Imperium a shit.
But now prove to me why the Necrons were stronger than the pre-fall Eldar. Because that one point we really know about, that you ignored, is that the Necrons went to sleep. Which doesn't prove their strength, but the contrary.
>>47164947
You find webway gates all over the galaxy. So according to this logic, the Eldar ruled the whole galaxy.
>>47164899
all the difference if it isn't destroyed
>>47165083
>Well, prove it.
They didn't do it, and they had all the reasons to do so.
>The terrible wars between the Old Ones and the Necrontyr
Necrontyr =\= Necrons. And why don't we skip to the end:
>Ultimately, beset by the implacable onset of the C'tan and the calamitous Warp-spawned perils they had themselves mistakenly unleashed, the Old Ones were defeated, scattered and finally destroyed.
>But now prove to me why the Necrons were stronger than the pre-fall Eldar.
I wasn't saying that they were stronger, but they certainly was their equal. Because, you know, they still exist.
>>47165184
An awesome equal that hides and does nothing until their foe fucks themselves up because they got bored.
>>47165199
Well, their foe certainly didn't have the guts to pry them open and settle this once and for all. Even if he could. So who is coward here again?
>>47165215
The one that hides under the bed while his enemy has the biggest party of his life in his room.
>>47165241
But this one decides, for some reason, to ignore him instead of kicking him out of the house. Even if he knows that he will stab him when he will get drunk. Why is it? Because he is sure about himself? Or because he is coward too?
>>47165241
this the party got to so good everyone just forgot about responaiblities
>>47165319
>Because he is sure about himself?
Yes. I know it's a meme to call them pansies or make fun of how Eldar get completely destroyed every two wars. But in all seriousness, they are not cowards. They are a genetical engineered warrior race, they fought the necrons, they won, with the help of some allies, the War in Heaven. And they are still fighting as a dying race in the 41M.
As this guy said >>47165323
Eldar were stupid to not kill the Necrons when they had the chance. But the Necrons didn't survive because of their strength, but because of the stupidity, hedonism or whatever of the Eldar.
>>47165390
>But the Necrons didn't survive because of their strength, but because of the stupidity, hedonism or whatever of the Eldar.
Well, that's your explanation. I don't believe they were that stupid not to destroy their ancestral enemy while they have the chance. It's more logical that they thought that this war is going to cost more lives and planets more than that's worth. Which implies that Necrons were at least worthy opponent, if not equal or stronger.
>>47152481
Where can one read more about the AI and Skynet?
Does it actually explain some 40k technology, or no?
>>47163968
Undisputed in their own eyes.
Yet mankind spread over most of the galaxy. This does not add up. Eldar shit talking as usual I say.
>>47165459
>Which implies that Necrons were at least worthy opponent, if not equal or stronger.
So we are back to this point: why did Necrons not kill off the Eldar if they are so strong? Why did they crawl under the bed?
>>47165465
See >>47165121HFY shit talking as usual
>>47152413
>>47152456
Men of gold were religious, men of stone were rationally oriented and men of iron were artificial men, that is, AI.
Reading Cripias' text using those assumptions makes perfect sense (especially seeing as how he is religious himself so of course says that religious people are better even physically, and seeing how the 40K universe often base power on belief) so that's how I see it.
>>47165495
The opposite is also true: if Eldar were "undisputed masters of the galaxy", why they didn't wipe off their ancestral enemy in his sleep, with full advantage of first strike?
>>47152413
Duderino, HH FW books state that emps recreated the human rave of old after he came back to power with his gene-wrights.
>>47165520
They probably hunted down tombworlds for a time after the first war, and then stopped giving a fuck, like the dark eldars right now.
>>47165520
I gave an answer to this. It may not be the best answer, and not an answer to your lking, but the best I can come up with the few informations we have about this topic aside from
>"hurr this genetical engineered warrior race is full of cowards!"
Now answer my question.
>>47165465
>Yet mankind spread over most of the galaxy.
>>47152528
Maybe eldar are humans. Genetically perfected DAoT humans.
>>47165544
Well, we have choice between three: "Eldar is cowardly", "Eldar is stupid", "Eldar are liars and like to imagine good old days a league better than they were". The second one is contrary to everything we know about Eldars, because they never got that stupid, except the Fall. So there is first or third. Third explains the facts.
>>47165593
Well, in the aftermath of the War in Heaven the galaxy was pretty fucked and all manner of warp spawns were hunting psykers, so the Eldar were probably more interested in mending that shit than bothering with the Necrons. And once things cooled down, they probably weren't that interested in starting a whole new war with the Necrons, especially when they had millions of tomb worlds and the Eldar probably didn't know the location of but a fraction.
I seem to remember that some groups did keep an eye on the ones they knew and sometimes sabotaged them, but it's still millions of tomb worlds that don't want to be found and that are very likely going to fight back if you try and destroy them.
They probably just decided to let it be, since they were on top and the Necrons weren't making any moves on their territory. After the Fall they really didn't have the resources to do anything about it.
>>47165593
So you know nothing about Eldar? Do I have to bring "genetical engineered warrior race" up again? They were made by the same people that created the orks for fucks sake. The CWE are a tame version of these mass murdering psychopaths hellbent on destruction and rape. Yes, you are right that it's absolutely not clear what really happened back then and it's up to interpretation, and that you have to take the words of the Eldar with a grain of salt. But not counting in that pre-fall Eldar were pretty fucking good at fucking shit up tells me that you know jack shit about the whole setting or dislike Eldar to an unreasonable degree and thus are not worth having a discussion with.
Have the last word, I got tired of this.
>>47165678
>dislike Eldar to an unreasonable degree
It's most likely this.
Most hardcore Imperium fans or Necron fans have a serious hateboner for Eldar. 40K fandom brings out the worst in certain types of people.
>>47162907
Don't forget, said ship was also a Fully Working STC that self updated itself as it went along, but nobody could fucking know due to the fact that if you weren't an AI or permanently hardwired into the damn ship you'd forget instantly and couldn't even use the damn thing. The fact that it shot a gravity cannon through a warpstorm was also neat.
>>47165634
That's my thoughts too, especially this part:
>very likely going to fight back if you try and destroy them
>>47165678
>"genetical engineered warrior race"
So it is second or third, take your pick.
>>47152266
Extremely large numbers + invisibility tech + microwave guns and self replicating machines
In fact, they were so good at teching they made the Men Of Iron to fight for them but that didn't end well. They couldn't even kill the rogue AI by the way, it's just sealed off.
>>47163999
The biggest warboss 40k has ever seen tunneled ATTACK MOONS through THE FABRIC OF REALITY to sack the coreworld forgeworlds where most of the good shit was at.
Good times.
>>47164945
That's the problem with Necrons, they can use pocket dimensions so finding them is quite a daunting task
>>47162128
Seems a bit backwards to consider the version that demystifies the heroes and events of legend to be the propaganda one desu.
>>47162661
The "heatsink" would theoretically extend to the bottom of the crust of the very world itself. The strength of materials to manage that amount of pressure and heat, along with the immense depth of such a super structure would provide all the foundation stability you need.
>I am not a 40k person, and came here because Paolo Soleri
