My MtG July Ban Wishlist:
Modern: Kitchen Finks is banned. Birthing Pod is unbanned.
Legacy: Chalice of the Void is banned. Jace, the Mind Sculptor is banned. Survival of the Fittest is unbanned.
What do you think should be banned/unbanned?
>Jace banned
lolwut
>>47109098
Jace is the card that pushes the Miracles decks over the top. Banning it weakens the Miracles deck while still keeping the deck alive. Similar to how Cruise/Dig got banned to nerf Delver and Omni-Tell (respectively) decks.
>>47109084
>Survival of the Fittest
Shut up. That card can never come back. Only reason people want it back is because it was the only thing keeping the Oddysey Madness garbage alive.
These threads are getting more and more retarded and being created by people who have no concept of game balance or the foresight to actually accurately guess how WotC thinks.
>>47109084
>Ban Kitchen Finks
For what purpose?
>>47109202
It enables the Melira combo
>>47109336
Then ban Malira.
Nobody gives a shit to side her in against infect, and it'd stop Finks/Redcap
>>47109367
This. Melira is the problem, not Finks, CoCo, or Pod, for that matter.
>>47109180
Why? Survival isn't a problem in a format being ravaged by big Eldrazis, Griselbrands, Marit Lages, andTerminus
>>47110035
>>47109180
Survival was banned back before Deathrite, Surgical Extraction, Nihil Spellbomb and Rest in Peace were cards. Right now, its quite possible that its fine.
That being said it sounds like OP is a bad legacy player who keeps getting beat by Chalice decks and Miracles, and has yet to look in a mirror to find the problem.
>>47109336
So does redcap
>>47110165
he's a memedern player that doesn't play legacy
>>47109084
Modern: Dread return is unbanned
Pauper: CoF is unbanned, delver is banned.
This is the only correct choice.
>>47109084
Pod is never going to be unbanned, anon. It's an engine card, and it just keeps getting better whenever Wizards prints new creatures. That's why they banned it in the first place.
>>47110418
Banning Delver would be retarded. Can you imagine a format where Brainstorm, Ponder, Counterspell, etc are legal but fucking Delver isn't? The problem with Delver decks is the suite of cards that support them. Sure a 3/2 flyer on turn 2 is good but removal is actually quite good in pauper so it's definitely not the focus of the deck despite the name.
>>47110418
Modern players shouldn't weigh in on bans in other formats. That formats ban list is a complete fucking joke, and the format itself actually manages to be more boring then standard.
The only format worse than modern is EDH. Upheaval and Sundering Titan are banned, but somehow Sol Ring is fine.
>>47111190
Sol Ring, Mana Drain, Gaea's Cradle, Windfall, Strip Mine, and Wheel of Fortune, among others. And cards like Tabernacle, Sensei's Divining Top and Maze of Ith that have no business existing in a so-called "casual" format, as they do nothing but stall.
>>47111335
Tabernacle is horrible in EDH. That card puts a big target on the head of whoever played it. Windfall and Wheel are good, but not gamebreaking. Top and Maze are borderline, but not quite banworthy. I'm sure everyone can agree that Mine, Ring, Drain, and Cradle are disgusting and need to be banned.
>>47111404
EDH has been unplayable ever since OGW came out and Eldrazis broke the format. Yup, they broke EDH too. OGW's Eldrazis were soooo well designed, right?
>>47109367
>Nobody gives a shit to side her in against infect
Yes? It's the best card Tron has vs Infect given Sudden Shock/Bolt/Dismember only deals with a single threat while Melira demands that the infect player either deals 20 damage in two turns or loses to Ugin/Ulamog.
Modern:
Unban Summer Bloom and Eye of Ugin
Ban Eldrazi Temple and Eldrazi Mimic
Legacy:
Ban Counterbalance or Terminus
Modern's banlist is fucking retarded. As are OP's proposed changes to it.
Actually, now I have read his entire post, his proposed legacy ban changes are fucking retarded too. Why not unban flash, and the moxen while you're at it.
ITT: Scrubs who need to git gud
I like how everyone in this thread is exactly as wrong as everyone else. It's like watching a religious debate.
*tips fedora*
Dread return did nothing wrong
>>47111404
Fuck don't ban ring, how am going to recover when someone sunders or does mld. Cause no sol ring means less signets played. Which means my lands have more value so there is more reward in destroying them.
>>47109084
>Bannings; git gud edition
To the EDH players out there: why is there a ban list? Doesn't that ruin the point of a casual format?
>>47113050
To limit degeneracy to a point considering speed and power of the format.
and the real answer is because somebody decided to have banlist and people agreed and thus it became norm.
>>47109336
You know what else stops the Melira combo with Finks? Fucking Torpor Orb, Grafdiggers Cage, Rest in Peace and even fucking Hallowed Moonlight from Origins.
>>47109084
Banning chalice kills entire archtypes of legacy. Banning Jace hinders miracles an outright kills a few fair blue decks. Survival unban wouldn't be terrible but I never played while it was in the format so I might be completely wrong.
Unban hyper genesis in modern. I dont play the format but Id like to see what happens with that
How about this: the only cards allowed are those in the most recently released set. (only Shadows over Innistrad now, only Eldritch Moon when that's released, and so on) How does this fix/break Magic?
>>47116351
>Banning chalice kills entire archtypes of legacy.
No? MUD still shits out t1 Trinispheres, Lands still has Thorn/Trinisphere (plays neither mainboard so hardly dead) Merfolk has fow and Spell Pierce and no one would care if Eldrazi (play chalice/thorn and try to beat your way to victory before your opponent can play around it.dec) got the fuck out of the format.
>>47116473
>the cards you bought three months ago are now useless, repeat every three months.
>inflating all the wost things about Standard
Your idea is bad and you should feel bad.
>>47116473
That's just Block Constructed.
>>47116547
You sound pretty assmad about Eldrazi. Because looking over tournament results I'm not seeing some overabundance of Eldrazi or even the decks mainboarding chalice. What deck are you running that cant deal with a mildly better stompy deck?
>>47116685
Except not, because it cuts down to one set. So, even worse than Block Constructed.
goblin recruiter unbanned in legacy
>>47116745
I play Dredge so I have no problems, the deck is just mindnumbingly boring to play with (basically your opener decides from the get go whether you win or lose given optimal play) or against and not even funny like Oops or Belcher.
>>47116547
Well you appear to be very new to the format, so lets explain how "Stompy" works. Stompy decks are prison decks that run Sol Lands and are aiming to get a turn one disruptive piece down that attempt to lock people out of the game. They forgo one drops for bigger spells.
You kill chalice, you kill Sea Stompy, Dragon Stompy, Goblin Stompy, Angel Stompy, MUD and Eldrazi Stompy.
"This card beat me, it needs a ban" is an argument for modern, not legacy.
They should not add to the modern ban list for 5 years, see if the format can attract less whining. Then, only ban cards that warrent a ban. Metagame sculpting is stupid.
For me, the only sensible ban list updates where all the legacy ones the last two years. "Do nothing, or as close to it as possible" is usually the best option.
>>47117573
>dredge
Wow, ladies and gentleman, its HITLER the real HITLER here in this very thread!
memes aside, It plays like any other stompy deck. Play something to slow the opponent and then something thatll squish the opponent. Im not sitting accross from you to let you have fun. There is only so much fun in a game and I intend to take all of it
>>47117829
Like I said earlier MUD wouldn't be even close to dead and sea/dragon/angels don't see enough play for anyone to care. Goblins has all the good stuff painter has + port and tutors for various annoyances/a 1-2turn clock.
>>47117966
MUD is dead without chalice. The decks only answer to removal is gone. Try playing a MUD deck without chalice some time.
And the purpose to legacy is its diversity. You don't just axe an archetype because it makes you sad, no matter what the representation is. Stompy attacks a metagame in a way thats unique from all other decks, and is far from overpowered. It would be retarded to ban it.
>>47117966
Painters cant run Chalice. It runs a shitload of 1 drops. And Goblin Stompy is not Goblins. Try learning more about a format before you come try to ruin it.
>>47109129
most decks don't even run four copies of him.
>>47118320
Yeah that guy doesnt know anything about Legacy. Might as well say "Ban Snapcaster", that card is just as good in Miracles.
>Modern
Ban: Batterskull
Unban: Dig Through Time and Stoneforge Mystic
>>47109084
Miracles doesn't need a nerf. The DTT ban knocked it down to reasonable levels.Chalice is fine, if annoying. Survival might be too strong.
I dunno about modern, I quit the format a while ago.
>>47119019
So stoneforge in a format without any good things to fetch? Amazing.
With coco and Jace rotating out, what's the biggest people will whine about this shit cards for standard, other than avacyn?
Ban all reserved list cards in EDH.
Your shitty commander decks doesn't need ABUR duals
>>47120359
Boo fucking hoo
>>47120359
>ban a bunch if quirky and underpowered commanders because I can't afford dual lands
go swallow a mountain of dicks
>>47120808
Ban Angus Mackenzie!
Unban everything. Watch as modern burns
>>47121255
Alternatively: leave the format alone and watch it burn
>>47115708
don't waste your timetrying to make sense to a noob that don't know how to use phitting needle against JtMS.
>buhu i don't like to use my sideboard
Vintage: Monastery Mentor is banned. Tinker is unrestricted.
>>47115708
i'll take 'cards that cause your opponent to chord for two' for 500, alex
modern: collected company is banned, deceiver exarch is banned, mox opal is banned, stoneforge mystic is unbanned, jace the mind sculptor is unbanned, splinter twin is unbanned
legacy: sensei's divining top is banned, balance is unbanned, memory jar is unbanned
>>47125315
>Grafdigger's Cage
>Chord for two
Yeah and? What you going to get? Nothing?
>>47109084
OP is retarded.
> Kitchen Finks is banned
Are you serious? The combo isn't even oppressive, and there are tons of ways of dealing with the combo pieces, if not the infinite lifegain itself.
>Birthing Pod is unbanned.
Even without Finks, value pod is still very strong. It's never going to get unbanned kiddo.
>Chalice of the Void is banned.
It's not even oppressive in legacy. Even though I play storm, I like that chalic is in the format simply because it punishes blue decks, which is a good thing.
>Jace, the Mind Sculptor is banned
You're retarded. If you're trying to weaken Miracles, there are better ways of doing it.
>Survival of the Fittest is unbanned.
Eh, I'm okay with this. I like the card.
>>47119899
Miracles is kind of getting out of hand. It's like 20% of the metagame now. It's easily the best deck of the format, though there's nothing wrong with Miracles being the best deck.
Wizards should print a hatebear that says "players cannot reveal or look at cards from libraries or search for cards that are in any players library"
>>47127206
you get a pridemage while it's on the stack, numbnuts. same with orb and rip. are you fucking dumb? have you never played this game before?
you know what? just get the fuck out of here. out. out of my sight. now.
>>47128224
>Grafdigger's Cage
>On the stack
Grafdigger's cost 1.
There's a very very very good chance it's in play before you even have the opportunity to even chord for 2 you turkey gobbling fuckwit. And if you want to talk theoretical situations of you chording for the Qasali Pride Mage while say the casting of Grafdigger's is on the stack then they can simply respond to it by by pathing, bolting or dismembering it.
>>47128203
With that exact wording, absolutely.
Hatebears are retarded though.
>>47128118
Its closer to 15% if you look at the last couple months. Thats pretty fine. Even if it was 20%, its not clearly the best deck in my opinion.
>>47128313
>Hatebears are retarded though.
But why? I like attacking with creatures for 2 in Vintage anon.
>>47128313
But in the last couple of weeks it's at least 20%. The second most played deck is eldrazi coming in at around 9%. That's huge.
>its not clearly the best deck in my opinion.
But it certainly is the one having the most success.
>>47128325
Thats fine, but the fact that hatebears have been so pushed that its an archetype is kind of dumb. The card meant for eternal formats in each set has so often just been "(Older card) but a 1W X/1 creature".
I attack for 2 in vintage all the time. I play pyromancers and kataki's and Snapcasters.
>>47128374
Its having reasonable success. The huge numbers it puts up are from MODO. If we posted all the legacy weeklies in the world online, I earnestly believe that we would see a more balanced metagame. The mtgtop8 numbers are inflated by essentially one or two shops worth of players having every single result posted.
>>47128378
I always thought that hatebears in Legacy are usually kept in check just by the fact that they always die to removal or are very weak toughness wise that they just die to cheap board wipes like Golgari Charm or Engineered Plague. I mean Vintage is much less removal so you can kind of get away with this shit there.
>>47111335
you realize there are people who want somewhere to play their broken cards right?
>>47128446
You can, except the non-mentor decks have sulfur elementals and the mentor decks just beat the piss out of them.
Death and Taxes is fine: I just don't understand why we need a million varieties of vanilla
>>47128426
>The mtgtop8 numbers are inflated by essentially one or two shops worth of players having every single result posted.
That doesn't make it meaningless as an indicator.
>The huge numbers it puts up are from MODO.
Idk why this should mean anything. Why is Miracles having more success in MODO than other decks?
>>47113050
If you don't have a ban list people at LGSs and GPs play tolarian academies and recurring nightmares which completely kills the ability to pick up fun EDH games when you're not with your friends
>>47128488
The clock isn't a factor on MODO. Its a single group of people that make up the MODO crowd. 5-6 of them consistently do well with miracles. However, at my shop we have 2 dredge players that consistently do well. If I posted up my shops results, it would skew the data.
Basically MODO isn't bad data, but it is given more weight than any other data in our original two data sets, and should be treated accordingly
>>47128607
>The clock isn't a factor on MODO.
But it is. In fact it's even moreso because each player only has 25 minutes for a match, unlike a real event where a miracles player can take up a more signicant portion of the one hour you're given for a, unless you're talking about the time it takes to shuffle and all that stuff, idk about that.
> 5-6 of them consistently do well with miracles.
But why aren't there more consistently good players for other decks?
> However, at my shop we have 2 dredge players that consistently do well
The metagame in shops is significantly less, Idk how to say this, open? It's more inbred than the metagame for MODO, which has players from around the world.
>Basically MODO isn't bad data, but it is given more weight than any other data in our original two data sets, and should be treated accordingly
I can agree with this however.
>>47128692
In paper, if your opponent times out you lose. On MODO, you win if that happens.
The MODO meta is basically a large shop. If more people play miracles there, that's not an indication of the metagame any more than my local shop is an indicator that dredge is 10% of the metagame
>>47128855
In paper, if your opponent times out you lose. On MODO, you win if that happens.
That should be a mark against miracles though, should it not? It certainly doesn't stop them from having a lot of success on MODO.
>The MODO meta is basically a large shop.
It provides a much larger sample size. And I don't know if the analogy is quite there. Once again, the meta in a shop is quite inbred compared to MODO.
>If more people play miracles there, that's not an indication of the metagame any more than my local shop is an indicator that dredge is 10% of the metagame
> If more people play miracles there, that's not an indication of the metagame any more than my local shop is an indicator that dredge is 10% of the metagame
It's not the case the miracles sees more play, which is true, but that a disproportionate amount of miracles players have more success than the other decks.
Keep in mind that the lists you see online that competed in Legacy Constructed Leagues like on mtg top 8 or mtggoldfish or whatever only show decks that 5-0 the league.
Modern: Everything is unbanned.
>>47129242
A man can dream.
>>47111335
It's why I like Edh. It's like retard vintage.
>>47129242
Lot of things being unbanned in Modern actually keeps lot of degenerate things in check.
Only thing I would keep banned in Modern is Blazing Shoal.
>>47125515
>top should be banned
>lets kill/weaken 6+ decks for no reason other than
>card selection is evil
Go back to the Modern general.
>>47129895
>Go back to the Modern general.
this person has never gone to time against miracles because the fucking guy takes 3 minutes to top every single time and the floor judge won't do anything about it.
>>47128118
I see 16%, which IS a lot, but if you take all the flavors of delver together, it about the same. Worth keeping an eye on, but not super oppressive.
And hey, it keeps combo decks and elves in check, so filthy D&T players like me can be happy
>>47109129
Do you even play Legacy?
The only ban-worthy card in Miracles is Terminus, and even that's not likely.
>>47131947
Is this what modern players really believe? If slow play was really a problem, counterbalance is the reason matches go to time.
>>47132021
Elves is an awful miracles matchup, but dredge, storm and to some extent reanimator and sneak/show are favored against miracles
>>47136230
Shows what I know then.
>>47110418
>wanting Familiars back
Opinion discarded. That deck was true cancer. Nothing worse than trying to get some games in with a deck you're testing and running into someone who wants to make you watch them play a ten minute game of solitaire.
>>47138305
Hi maro!
>>47110664
Hi memedern player
>>47138739
If disliking infinite combos that take 20-25 repetitions and ten minutes of game tine to win makes me Maro then I guess I am.
