Does anyone actually give a fuck about short races? What do they even add to the game? Whimsy and lightheartedness? You can get that shit without being a halfling or gnome. I can understand the appeal of dwarves, since they're gritty and tough, but what the fuck do gnomes and halflings contribute? When was the last time a gnome or halfling was cool or heroic, or something that wasn't comic relief? When was the last time a gnome or halfling wasn't an annoying little shit played by That Guy?
Plus, I'm sure enough people in this hobby are manlets, and if there's one thing manlets hate, it's reminders of their undersized stature.
Given enough variety (more than just humans, orcs, elves, and maybe dwarves) what reason is there for gnomes and halflings to even be a playable option? Is it just another sacred cow of fantasy that people refuse to slaughter because of creative stagnation? Are there people out there who actually like this shit? Please help me understand.
>>47008698
If you don't like them, don't include them on your game. No need to sperg out. People like different things than you.
>>47008829
You're not wrong, but I just don't understand why people like halflings and gnomes. At all. What is there to like about them? Please tell me.
>>47008698Shortstacks.
>>47008698
>I'm sure enough people in this hobby are manlets
Pic related, it's you.
>>47008698
What does any race contribute?
Dwarves, elves and orcs don't actually add anything special that any other give race doesn't add.
Earth has plenty of variety with only a single race that only has a handful of variants. There've been conquering hordes, weird cults, nations founded for insane reasons, groups that think they deserve the world, groups that think they deserve all the money, and a million other crazy things aside. Fantasy races in general are pointless. Saying one is more pointless than another is like saying you like one puffy little cloud over another.
they are better than gay ass tieflings or "dragonborns" and thats a fact
>>47008928
Well, there is this book that people tend to like. It's called The Hobbit, you might've heard of it.
>>47008698
>physical stature matters
>in a system where martials are terrible
>>47008928
Well, a halfling cavalier on a warhound can get all the bonuses as a human on horse, but can fit inside even the cramped confines of a dungeon. Otherwise small characters can avoid notice and hide in smaller spaces, or even ride master-blaster style on top of an imposing gladiator-type character. As a bulked up human warrior type I've thrown halflings to high ledges to help the team out. Being small opens up a few utilities that otherwise wouldn't be possible to a human-sized or larger character, same for being taller.
>>47008928
Halflings fill the "humble origins" thing in fiction. They're small, enjoy the simple things in life, but they can still do great things. They're relatable in a sense, while also being heroic.
Gnomes fill the "smart guy" role without being arrogant cunts like elves.
>>47008698
If your halfling and gnomes are annoying shits, then it's because your players are shit, or you're a shit gm for making them shit.
The onus is on you to make them interesting. play your halflings as naive heroes that have an indomitable spirit instead of man-children who love to steal because lol-randumb
Play your gnomes as demi-fey that have little regard for mortal life, bordering on sociopathy
Dwarves are neat. if you can't make your dwarves interesting, that's your fault
>b-but this isn't in line with what the source material says
God forbid you use your imagination for one god damn second to make things more interesting
>>47008984
what's it about?
>>47008698
>>47008928
Some people like comic relief.
Some people like heroic characters that don't really look the part.
Some people just like smaller races.
Also what >>47009077 said.
If you or your players cannot make a race interesting, it's entirely your or their fault, not race's fault.
There's no fundamentally "bad" races.
>>47009126
A bunch of short people and a old cracky dude going headfirst into dangers and causing wars.
>>47008698
In lines with this thread.
After going through a lot of D&D world setting (Specific settings Dark Sun, Bloodlines, Al-Qadim, etc. Not the generic worlds the PHBs paint)
You find one things between Gnomes and Halfings is that the worlds often favor one over the other. And the unflavored is often either non-exsistant or regarded a "Default and rare, most people don't encounter them."
In Bloodlines halflings are mysterious creatures hailing from shadow. Gnomes are almost unheard of.
Al-Qadim Gnomes are natural Genie binders and merchants wandering the sands, often never without Djinn aid. Halflings? Never heard of them (Even though the realms is like... 3 days north).
Pretty much every setting has picked one over the over giving me the impression of ... why bother having both? Just remove one or combine them.
>Eberron is the only exception, trying to give both unique flavor but I feel as though you could still cut one or the other out. Preferable the gnomes. Dinosaurs win over spymasters in my book.
>>47008698
Nothing. Gnomes and halflings and kinder are garbage. Halflings worked in the specific story of the specific setting designed for them, because that story capitalized on how shit they are and pushed a narrative based primarily on that. Hobbits were shit in an endearing way and everyone around them was either incompetent or absent most of the time.
The derivative races based on the wee folk are all the shit and none of the charm that made them work in that setting. Or WoW's obnoxious take on gnomes, which even WoW can't stand and goes out of its way not to include.
>>47008977
While gnomes, halflings and kinder are shit, there is no denying that the half dragon half demon half angel loli kitsune snowflake races are a step down even from them.
>>47009294
>hobbits
>shit
>the ones who actually defeated Sauron alone
I know this is bait, but come on man.
>>47009202
sounds lame
>>47008698
>When was the last time a gnome or halfling was cool or heroic, or something that wasn't comic relief?
Samwise Gamgee was a pretty cool dude.
>>47009395
It's basically Jackass: Dwarf Edition, how can you not love it?
I like short races. The whole question is kind of dumb though, since you could say the same about any other fantasy race. There's basically nothing with any fantasy race you couldn't do with humans unless it requires non-magical breathing underwater or flying something.
Fuck dragonborn though. I wouldn't mind lizard people, but all the dragon shit just doesn't suit what I think a player character should be (same goes for kobolds too. Fuck all the dragon shit about them. I half welcome the anime dog versions of them just to get away from that)
>>47009392
I want to believe you're joking. Surely you didn't miss the entire point of what made the hobbits special? And the way the setting explained why that was why they, as opposed to Boromir, Aragorn, or even Gandalf, needed to be the ones to take care of the ring/Sauron.
It's because they weren't anything like those others. Which, in regards to that setting, is what made them endearing and interesting. Take them out of that, and the unlikely hero thing loses value. A player has to force it, and inevitably since they aren't the main character they just become retarded tacked on silly characters while Aragorn and Gandalf steal the show.
Small races, Elf subtypes, and half-races only exist to pad the game's races out. Prove me wrong
Gnomes are useless.
Halflings and dwarves are fine.
>>47009541
Well there's no reason they NEED to "pad races out" and halflings and dwarves have been a part of DnD pretty much since the beginning. I'm not sure when gnomes came in though
>>47009536
That's... my point. They needed something down-to-earth to do the most important thing.
And you're gonna have Legolas anyway, won't you?
That's why the "cute race" actually CAN be a great addition. Probably better than most.
The funny thing about the current concept of gnomes as wacky inventors is that it was popularized by WoW and even WoW ignores them. And goblins do the crazy gadgets and comic relief thing a million times better, and are used way fucking more.
Gnomes were a mistake.
>>47009536
What made the hobbits special was their child-like cheerfulness, comic stuffiness and rusticity hid that they had one of the best "powers" in Tolkien's setting, a inner strength that allowed them to remain virtuous in the face of darkness. It's not just that they're unlikely heroes, it's that just being good people on itself makes them powerful. They are essentially Men, so it's not even like Elves who literally can't make the choice to turn to darkness or Dwarves who were specifically made to resist corruption. Tolkien's setting is extremely noblebright all things considered.
>>47009696
What if gnomes were a tiny and more magical race rather than a small one? Basically more shoe repair fairies less engineers
>>47008698
Hello, Randy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFmv22ghzQw
They're no more superfluous than humans with pointy ears or humans that are slightly short and squat.
I don't get why some people think there's a hard limit to non-human sized races, but there can be infinite pointy eared/slightly off-colored humans with no problems.
>>47009695
The point is that it worked in that story because great pains were taken to make it work.
Bilbo wouldn't be Bilbo if he were just one member of a party of better heroes. His quaint, down to earth, reluctant presence would be outshined if he were always put next to Gandalf, Bard, Beorn, Legolas, and Aragorn. Which in a ttrpg he would be.
The party and/or DM would have to twist the narrative to give the halfling something only he could do, like sneak around, or split him off so he was forced to save the day on his own, which is what Tolkien did -all the time-
Trying to make that work in a collaboration is like trying to ride a go-kart on the freeway.
The best and worst case scenario is the player just plays the halfling the same as the other players play their characters.
But dwarves are medium, not small
Halflings and Gnomes tend to be stealthier just through the fact that they're tiny and grow up in forests.
Gnomes lean towards magic and trickery, which can be fun to play.
Halflings have that timid innocence about them that makes them fun to play in negotiation rolesand infinitely fun to corrupt.
Halflings and gnomes are completely irrelevant.
Dwarves cover a fantasy arch-type of cunning craftsmen.
You could readily swap out any race, as long as your replacement covers the missing arch-type, but people strongly associate dwarves with their arch-type.
>>47008698
The idea of a short, stubby knight in armor far too big for him jousting atop a Saint Bernard is my favorite image of whimsical fantasy.
How could you not love a mighty gnome warrior who hacks at his opponents' ankles? Or the fearsome midget wizard who is totally compensating for his size? Or the hobbit thief who quietly disappears from a scene, nicks the sword off the evil knight, and trips him with it?
>>47009888
Not really if you ask me. It was the most "naturalistic" part of the book, Tolkien thinking back about his experiences in war.
Anyway, as I said, if anywa you're gonna have Legolas and Aragorn-alikes along, why not a Frodo as well?
>>47009999
Because Willow wasfun to watch.
>>47008698
Midgets are gross.
Halflings are good.
Dwarves are great.
Gnomes are just okay.
But you should never have all three races in one setting, imo, and never Halflings AND gnomes.
