"Paladin who smites evil on sight, never gives them a chance to repent, solves everything with violence" Appreciation thread.
Fuck evil.
Fuck people who need a divine warrior to talk to them like a psychiatrist to stop them from being evil.
Fuck anyone who sympathizes with evil.
Smite first. Smite second. Ask questions (to your God) third.
>>47008004
Is that why you massacred your entire order?
Of the good in you I can speak, but not of the evil.
For what is evil but good tortured by its own hunger and thirst?
Verily when good is hungry it seeks food even in dark caves, and when it thirsts it drinks even of dead waters.
>>47008125
You are good when you are one with yourself.
Yet when you are not one with yourself you are not evil.
For a divided house is not a den of thieves; it is only a divided house.
And a ship without rudder may wander aimlessly among perilous isles yet sink not to the bottom.
You are good when you strive to give of yourself.
Yet you are not evil when you seek gain for yourself.
For when you strive for gain you are but a root that clings to the earth and sucks at her breast.
Surely the fruit cannot say to the root, "Be like me, ripe and full and ever giving of your abundance."
For to the fruit giving is a need, as receiving is a need to the root.
You are good when you are fully awake in your speech,
Yet you are not evil when you sleep while your tongue staggers without purpose.
And even stumbling speech may strengthen a weak tongue.
You are good when you walk to your goal firmly and with bold steps.
Yet you are not evil when you go thither limping.
Even those who limp go not backward. But you who are strong and swift, see that you do not limp before the lame, deeming it kindness.
You are good in countless ways, and you are not evil when you are not good,
You are only loitering and sluggard.
Pity that the stags cannot teach swiftness to the turtles.
In your longing for your giant self lies your goodness: and that longing is in all of you.
But in some of you that longing is a torrent rushing with might to the sea, carrying the secrets of the hillsides and the songs of the forest.
And in others it is a flat stream that loses itself in angles and bends and lingers before it reaches the shore.
But let not him who longs much say to him who longs little, "Wherefore are you slow and halting?"
For the truly good ask not the naked, "Where is your garment?" nor the houseless, "What has befallen your house?"
>>47008004
I'm really starting to dig that idea of paladin more and more these days. I'm tired of paladins being fucking D&D social services for evil people.
>>47008004
Fuck yeah
Lawful Neutral > Lawful Good
Divine law is above the whims of man!
Sometimes evil just needs to get its ass kicked
>>47008004
Really the difficulty I have is determining what exactly is evil enough to smite on sight and what's actually just neutral-but-taking-an-antagonistic-role-due-to-circumstances. Since I'm stuck with Detect Undead and Demons rather than Detect Evil, and there's plenty of apparent bad guys who don't fit the former categories.
I agree. Detect Evil only pings when something has greatly become entrenched in evil. A drunkard would not ping as evil, but the banker who intentionally writes unfair loans and cheats those out of their daily bread out of greed would ping as evil.
>>47008199
>Divine Law
>Your interpretation of it is divine law
I'm really glad that 5e paladins aren't alignment bound. Now all the stereotypical murderhobo Javert paladins can have their proper alignment, Lawful Evil.
>>47008398
Funny thing is AD&D flat out stated that randomly smiting anyone who pinged even slightly evil was itself an evil act.
I guess I'm just tired of moral relativity and redemption and all that other stuff.
Now I just want to protect the good people and destroy the wicked.
>>47008547
>Ending evil is evil
>Ending good is good
>Ending neutrality is neutral
Retard
>>47008569
I like some good old-fashioned 'bring down holy light to smight the evil lord fuckass' myself, but I'm also a slut for stuff like the overlord's second-in-command betraying his master, or a lesser villain teaming up with the protagonists to stop an even more dickheaded villain.
I'll agree though, forced 'moral greyness' has kind of oversaturated storytelling as of recently. Sometimes you just want an irredeemably horrible villain to kick down a flight of stairs, you know?
>>47008569
No such thing as good people and evil people anon.
There's just people.
>>47008596
>hurrrr
The alignment section in both the 1e and 2e PHB is pretty much clear on that. You're not ending a great evil by going full Robocop on a mildly conceited innkeeper, you're actually worse than the 90s trenchcoat and katana edgelord.
>>47008125
Evil confirmed for whiny poet who makes excuses.
>>47008644
Who is worse? The baker who mixed chalk into the flour or the banker that has stolen thousands from the poor.
>>47008644
But good and evil are actual elemental concepts in D&D.
>>47008670
This isn't even remotely comparable.
>baker dilutes the flour
>baker is able to make more food (perhaps worse quality)
>more food equals less starving people
banker
>steals money
>benefits solely himself
I don't know what the purpose of this comparison was.
>>47008666
Go away Satan. Your lies and misdirection do you no good here.
>>47008683
For outsider beings, not for fucking mortals
>>47008697
Both are still evil in D&D
>>47008697
Because
>>47008644
Said that there was no such thing as evil people. The banker in the comparison is the evil person and the baker is considered the good person. Now do that comparison with all of society and you can really determine who the good people are and who the evil people are.
Who /questing/ here? Just quested for a holy relic in a defiled tomb, shit was so cash
Or are you all out just killing goblins when you should be questing for your god and monarch?
>>47008753
>baker has a family he must feed
>feed by selling more baked goods
>he pledges to not mix chalk into the flour once he can afford it
This can be spun so many ways to make it not evil even by the most retarded of D&D standards.
If you gleefully murder anyone evil your character is not a paladin, he's a theoretically justified bloodthirsty psychopath
That's no more a paladin than the Punisher is a paladin
>>47008834
Says the Evil apologist. The world would be a 100% better place without the evil people, and this applies to every fantasy universe out there.
>>47008834
The Punisher was a more compelling character than Daredevil in the recent series, and arguably he was right about everything too.
>>47008892
Anon, evil people invent all the cool stuff
>>47008925
Like nuclear weapons, neoliberal economic policy and the 30 year mortgage. Thanks Evil!
>>47008697
>>baker dilutes the flour
>>baker is able to make more food (perhaps worse quality)
Breadmaking was serious shit back in premodern times m8, with pretty rigid regulations on quality and prices. If a baker was caught cutting chalk into his mix, they'd see very serious punishment.
>>47008902
He's a interesting character on moderate dosages only
"Psshh nothin personnel kid, oh by the way this guy was marginally worse than I am" gets old.
A recent Civil War storytime in /co/ had someone sum up the whole character by saying that while other characters have plot armor he has plot guns. He can kill literally anyone with his guns as long as the plot calls for it, logic needs not apply.
>>47008980
>logic need not apply
Actually, guns are pretty good at killing people.
Also the punisher is only good in a universe where he doesn't have to deal with other characters. He is a hero that goes from an all American vigilante that we think we need, to stupid, by the mere inclusion of another superhero.
>>47008125
Good and Evil is like Heat and Cold. They're not opposing forces, one is the absence of the other.
I'm still kicking the shit out of people who aren't good enough tho
>>47008968
It's not a GOOD thing to do but it's certainly not smite-able evil.
It's not selfish in the way that it's overtly harming others, it's not malicious, and it's not affecting huge populaces. It's just a guy trying to make a living going through a rough patch.
However, if a baker mixes chalk into his flour JUST BECAUSE HE CAN, then it's an issue, but even then it's a slap-on-the-wrist issue, a sort of "Look, stop doing this or we report you to the authorities. While you're at it why don't you give away your unpurchased breads to the poor instead of selling it like it's fresh".
I just don't see a baker mixing chalk into his flour as POSSIBLY being evil to the point of deserving divine judgment.
If a man steals a loaf of bread to feed his starving family, is that evil?
>>47009029
People to whom getting shot is not worse than a beesting are not on short supply in the marvel universe. The workaround writers use is to give him all sorts of ridiculous sci-fi tech just so they can justify having him on a story where most other characters could beat him to a tar while blindfold and with one hand tied.
>>47008925
Wrong. It's usually people who want to do the right thing but get their shit warped by evil people. The dude who invented dynamite was a pacifist, for example.
>>47009067
>I just don't see a baker mixing chalk into his flour as POSSIBLY being evil to the point of deserving divine judgment.
My poor daughter is deathly allergic to chalk, but that's just a little insignificant detail, because it's her birthday and I got her her favorite thing in the entire world, a fresh loaf of delicious bread.
I wish you could roll a Chaotic Good Paladin in Baldur's Gate. Lawful Good is lame.
>>47009097
No, it isn't lawful though, but it wouldn't be enough to drop their alignment.
>>47009152
It is physically impossible to be allergic to chalk. The only reported cases were the dust-free chalk additives giving someone a severe cough because it contained a milk protein.
My DM wasn't a fan of me attempting to execute some thieves. As a Paladin of the god of law. Fuck crime, laws are laws.
>>47009209
He probably would've let the CG character commit genocide though.
>>47009209
What did they steal, exactly?
>>47009209
Summary execution is against most legal systems, edgetard.
>>47009209
Was there not a LAW which told you something other to do in that situation?
>>47009200
"Let me put chalk in this bad milk so that it's still white so that people will buy and drink it"
>>47009235
>>47009236
Lawful doesn't mean your committed to a countries law, but rather your deities and personal code.
>>47009259
There should be laws against backpedaling.
>Playing a sexy Sororitas-esque tin can of a paladin.
>Fighting an erinyes.
>It becomes apparent that I have neither ranged weapons nor flight.
>The erinyes starts plinking arrows at me from the air.
>No other options available. Time to break out my secret weapon.
>Roll Perform Dance to shake dat ass. 18 on the die, plus 10.
>The erinyes is intrigued.
>Offer to quietly sweep this whole "starting a cult" thing under the rug if she comes back to my church for atonement and redemption.
>Explain that the process of becoming Lawful Good will involve a lot of "friendship lessons," wink wink, nudge nudge.
>She agrees.
>The church already has a female salamander and a harpy.
>Apparently we Church of Monster Girls now.
>Induct the erinyes as an acolyte and my waifu.
This is how I paladin.
>>47009292
Antipaladin pls go
>>47009292
You are a terrible person, and a living embarrassment.
It's appropriate in certain situations.
Side note, I, a forever DM, desperately want someone to run this module for me.
>>47009259
He didn't say he was lawful, he said he was a paladin of the god of law and was going to execute the thieves for breaking the law
>>47009286
To be fair It's almost entirely dependent on the system and campaign setting which one of those it is.
>>47009209
>Local law stipulates that the punishment for theft is public-mockery, incarceration or amputation of a hand, depending on the value and importance of the object stolen
>Foreign weenie in plate-armor has overstepped his place and appointed himself judge, jury and executionor
Assuming your god doesn't rightfully abandon you for being a lawbreaking goob, the local authorities would be well within their right to convict you for this.
>>47009292
>>47009318
>your party meets outside a tavern
>you see a suspicious looking man with a sign
>it's a paladin recruiting an army to invade hell
![1407970757339[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/2hEhDHF.jpg "1407970757339[1].jpg")
>have to play in a Good pathfinder group
>play inquisitor of Ragathiel
>empyreal lord of Vengeance
>Lawful Good as fuck
>respond to murder with murder
>mfw I don't even have to abide by a paladin code
Sarenrae get fucked.
>>47008004
As a primarly-evil-character player, i appreciate you. Where has the world come, when we evil-doers can't wear our spiked crown of doom and our belt of skulls without having a band of do-gooders trying to convert us back to goodness with happiness and pleasentries? What the hell do they even want?
>>47009292
Purge the antipaladin
>>47009152
>My poor daughter is deathly allergic to chalk, but that's just a little insignificant detail, because it's her birthday and I got her her favorite thing in the entire world, a fresh loaf of delicious bread.
Chances are he didn't know about the allergy and if he did, like any normal person, he would serve you specifically a loaf of actually fresh chalk-free bread or find another way to NOT end up killing someone. And let's say he doesn't really care all that much about your daughter, even so he'd still try to give you a loaf of chalk-free bread if he knows of your daughter's allergy because he WOULDN'T WANT HIS BUSINESS SHUT DOWN. Not evil. Evil is the act AND the intent, with intent being an integral part.
>>47008004
You sir, give paladins a bad name. For it is truly foolish to seek to convert evil, yes. However, to turn away those seeking redemption is to turn your back on your lawful good god!
>>47010170
If he's selling his bread without informing the buyer that his loaves have been cut with chalk, then he's befrauding people and committing a misdeed. His motivations might be sympathetic, but he's still committing a crime and depriving others, possibly even less fortunate, of what they have rightfully bought.
>>47010421
So a petty crime is the same kind of evil that deserves divine judgement? He is a common man doing what common men do; make mistakes and be ignorant of potential, long-term repercussions. He's guilty of a little greed and a little deception, but ultimately he would be the kind of person that's very easily redeemable. He's not demon material. A paladin wouldn't smite him or destroy his business because a paladin understands that ultimately this baker feeds people and the people depend on him. He'd slap the guy on the wrist, but it wouldn't go beyond that, or the paladin is an overzealous unwise prick that has no business being a paladin-- the embodiment of ultimate wisdom and virtue that men are capable of. He would be much less concerned about punishing petty crime than redeeming the ones that committed them.
The baker is not evil.
>>47009292
>>Playing a sexy Sororitas-esque tin can of a paladin.
>>Fighting an erinyes.
>>It becomes apparent that I have neither ranged weapons nor flight.
>>The erinyes starts plinking arrows at me from the air.
>>No other options available. Time to break out my secret weapon.
>>Roll Perform Dance to shake dat ass. 18 on the die, plus 10.
"You succeed on your roll to insult the erinyes. She bares her teeth and screams that you're a slut and your God should thank her for the beating she's about to give you."
My setting has a "sanctuary" safe word against all Paladins. You essentially give yourself to the goodwill of the paladin if you use it.
>>47010170
Fun fact. There is NO FUCKING CHALK ALLERGY IN EXISTENCE. The only thing that is even semi-related is from MODERN. PROCESSED. CHALK ADDITIVES.
>>47010493
According to my Paladin senses he is.
>>47010493
Things are a little too black and white: He's not a baby-eating monster, but he's still unfairly putting himself over others and their nutritional needs. I'll concede that a paladin in full-plate charging down his shop would be excessive for baker's fraud, but those who have scraped up their earnings to buy bread and found themselves served short deserve justice too.
How's this for a compromise: The baker is helped in getting his business back on its own two feet, but until such a deed is finished he's only allowed to eat bread cut with chalk. The baker no longer needs to resort to bread fraud, a quite serious crime in those days, to survive, but he also learns what it was like for those on the other side of things. Would this be satisfactory?
>>47010557
Please give examples so I don't think it's retarded.
>>47010636
Or you could do what they did back then when bread makers did cut with chalk. Force them to sell a baker's dozen (13) in leu of their normal dozen at the same price.
>>47010602
>this baker has used chalk in his bread
>... HE IS NOT SERVING PURE BREAD TO THE PEOPLE
>THIS IS A CRIME
>He is EVIL.
>I am justified in being the arbiter of supreme justice and will DESTROY him.
>What, he's supporting a family?
>HE IS EEEEVIL
This kind of thinking is precisely why GMs give paladin players suspicious looks.
>>47009097
24601, you know damn well it is. Now get back to lifting super heavy things
>>47010584
I think you're missing the point.
>>47010602
So you're going to roleplay your paladin murdering a baker and destroying his business, then justifying it as well-deserved divine retribution because he put chalk on his flour because somehow that makes him irredeemably Evil with a capital E? Can't you get of murderhobo mentality and roleplay something that isn't killing people for a moment?
>>47010713
No. You're missing the point that there is absolutely nothing detrimental to the health of people partaking in this bread, which decreases how evil you perceive him to be.
>>47010636
This is PRECISELY how it should be considered. I never argued he was innocent; I merely argued that he is not Evil. In fact, he wouldn't even register as evil on Detect Evil unless the GM is stupid.
He does deserve some sort of punishment for the slight injustice he has inflicted upon others, but not because he is evil, because he has made a mistake.
>The baker is helped in getting his business back on its own two feet, but until such a deed is finished he's only allowed to eat bread cut with chalk.
This is a perfect punishment. It helps everyone and teaches him a lesson without resorting to some uncanny murderhobo frontier justice. THIS is the kind of thinking that a paladin should have. Nobody is "GOOD" or "EVIL" except for people that explicitly devote themselves to such things or through their regular actions spread these things.
>>47010685
You've killed the baker. Congratulations, the town now has no baker, a family has lost its primary source of income, and you've caused a major system shock to the localized agrarian economy.
>>47010780
I was mocking the person in favor of killing the baker, sorry it wasn't clear.
>>47010644
"Pumpkin patch!"
"...just the tip?"
"Pumpkin patch!"
"Fine. I'll take you to jail... Fucking tease."
>>47010751
Do we really need to find the specific disease where an unknown intake of chalk may have disastrous effects on the person, or are you able to look past that and realize that the matter is about a person misleading someone else who trusts them and who may have something extremely important depending on that trust not being broken?
Personally, to me, Paladin's are like a cruise missile. Detect Evil is their radar. Low life thieves, cheaters, gamblers, adulterous people, bullies, even kids that sometimes set fire to the tail of a cat, won't ping in the detect evil spell. They might act evil, commit evil acts, but that's different from 'being evil'. A man could kill another in a fit of jealousy or anger and that's undoubtely and evil act if not in self defense. But that man is not an evil person, he just commited an evil act. He's not gonna detect on a Detect Evil spell. He is going to suffer, regret his decision and may or may bot attone for it.
But a man that feels not remorse killing, and its likely to kill again. A bandit that kills his victims in order to avoid getting caught, instead of just stealing from them, or a soldier that rape and kill innocent. Those people who tend to act evil, rather than a one time thing, or a very eventual situation. Those that, whenever they can, will hurt others for the sake of themselves or for pleasure, those will detect as evil.
The gods, you see, don't waste cruise missiles on civilians or low priority targets. They send them after the big guns. Those low lives will suffer through normal karma, or their own conscience. is those who are not plagued by a conscience that need the smiting of a blade.
And, in my opinion, is this is not how you do it, then you should really think about why you do it differently. Maybe, just maybe, you just want to be a dick to paladins.
>>47008650
fucking christ, thank you
>>47010644
The word itself invokes a divine contract.
>>47010644
Parole.
>>47011058
It's parlay you cheeky cunt
>>47008004Paladin falls.
>>47009161
did... did he pull something out of his own stomach to lasso the bug-man?
>>47008547
Why is it evil? Not with them but i want to know why
>>47008621
I've seen Megatron turn autobot and it was well done, so redemption certainly has its place in story telling, but I get this so much
>>47011583
Just killing someone because their being is more predisposed towards cosmic evil(like, child conceived during an evil cult's ritual, a half-orc in any setting where all Orcs are evil, tieflings, etc.), rather than observing them and seeing whether or not they embrace evil or strive to help others against their nature, is an evil act, because you're no better than the evildoers if you go about killing people for the nature of their birth, rather than their actions..
>>47008666
>Satan caused the crusades by speaking to the greed of men in their own voice, knowing they'd say god told them too
>>47008004
>playing a lawful good paladin
>instead of a lawful evil crusader
It's like you don't like fun/ a kingdom of Jerusalem
>>47011507
Technically he's ripping it from his belt, but it does seem to be part of his body.
He also managed to pull a spear.
>>47010091
Not to let a soul go to waste
>>47010154
So now taking non lethal options is evil?
>>47008790
>questing
>wasting time that could be spend fighting unbelievers/ heathens
Leave the menial tasks to self-proclaimed adventurers, you're not just hired muscle
>>47011678
>lawful evil crusader
The Crusader Class is only available to the Lawful Good alignment anon.
>>47011776
>crusader
>lawful good
Does not compute
>>47011776
In what system? It's any non-neutral or something like that in 3.5 D&D.
>>47011774
>he doesn't know
Yeah, okay, buddy, I'll just be over here single-handedly reclaiming lost holy artifacts for the glory of the divine and my knightly order in deeply personal and spiritual perilous quests. Keeping the holy in the hands of the virtuous is as importing as killing heathens and infidels.
>>47011898
Okay then, so you're basically a glorified janitor/ delivery boy. Got it. I'll just go burn some witches in the meantime
>>47009097
it'sthe local magistrate's problem not the paladin's. I'm the god damn arm of god, you call me when necromancers and devil dealers wanna act.
>>47011914
You honestly sound like a boring person to play with
>>47011714
I asked because of the blood-like thing splashing out as he did it.
It looks like it again, at the tip of the spear.
That's... rather hard-core... if the Kamen Rider (or whatever he is) is pulling out parts of his own body to fight his enemies.
>>47012140
Yeah, it's a currently airing webseries. So far I love it, since it's anti-toyetic and super edgy, like the Kamen Rider in 1990-2000.
This is the last webm from that scene.
>>47009428
Thanks friend, that was a good session
>>47011914
You know you're basically describing yourself right? You're a holy clean-up crew killing vermin if all you do is mindlessly slaughter heretics. Get with the holiness, knave.
>>47008004
A Paladin knows that, even in a world of alignments and cosmic forces of law, chaos, neutrality, evil, and good, morality is a grey area, and to execute such harsh punishment as the subject post suggests is to become the very evil they struggle against. Redemption by choice is victory for good.
What that post suggests is blind slaughter, and is most certainly a victory for evil.
Remember, Paladin's first weapon is their example; their last is the blade. A Paladin leads people to right and good. What's suggested is driving people to good, with the foible of a blade as the impetus. That is no better than slavery. Being good is about the journey and the trials set before you, not the destination.
>>47012761
What you're missing is that morally grey stuff doesn't ping on detect evil. Grey is neutral, neutral is fine. If what you've done is bad enough to ping as Evil, it's seriously bad shit. A pickpocket doesn't ping evil, a businessman skimming off of the top doesn't ping evil. The serial killer, the demonic cultist, the tyrant and the despot do. People who act as predators towards there fellow man. These are the types of people who detect as evil and these are the types who deserve and require violent purging. Detect and smite is a perfectly fine strategy because if they're evil enough to show as Evil, they're basically inhuman monsters.
>>47008004
"Y'see, the wanton violence makes me a good person, because, you know, those people go out killing people! And they LIKE it! Totally senseless violence! Moral ambiguity!? YOU EVIL PIECE OF SHIT! RIDER KIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII-"
>>47012420
Shit, this show looks amazing. Where could I find it, or go to look for it? Google gives me nothing for searching "Kamen Rider webseries"
>>47014007
That's not how alignment worked back when the Paladin needing to be LG became a thing in the first place.
Few people were actually neutral. Most people who were evil in alignment were there for being petty little shits.
>>47014621
According to the 3.5 SRD, detect evil detects evil creatures, undead, evil outsider, clerics of an evil deity and evil magic items or spells.
Just having an evil alignment doesn't show on detect evil. Detect evil detects actual tangible elemental evil. So if it pings, my sword I swings.
>>47008004
That is how I paladin.
I am the law.
>>47008004
Yeah, OP sucks dick but since it's for a God it's all cool.
Smite-heavy paladins a shit. They're just colossal douchebags with a pretty cause to back them up.
Redeemer paladins factually superior, get rekt smite-scrubs.
If you don't like it go cry to your patron deity about how treating everybody like trash makes them hate you.
>>47015725
Eh, both are shit, redeemers have a moral superiority stick up their ass. Damerrich types are better, they know not to swing the hammer lightly, but when the time comes for it, they execute mercilessly.
>>47008980
I just think he has absolutely no business taking on supervillains beyond the occasional street-level one. That's why Punisher MAX is by far my favorite.
>>47009209
Is your god of law fucking retarded? Thievery is hardly worth a death sentence, or if it is, it should be dished out by the proper authorities.
>>47015827
Now this is how you do an executioner paladin right. I hate it when people get too smite happy with their paladins to the point it becomes a meme. A Paladin doesn't have to be nice and can kill but it's something that needs to be done with a very steady hand.
>>47015725
I don't even care if you try to redeem people, just don't go around murdering everyone who pings as evil. Like, evil isn't puppy-kicker exclusive, guys. Sometimes someone will be, say, lawful evil because they follow the law but have no real concern for anyone else and would abandoned an injured friend if it saved them five minutes, but they haven't actually done anything WRONG.
>>47016131
As someone mentioned before, a person being evil-aligned doesn't automatically ping as evil unless they're involved with evil magic or an evil deity.
>>47008004
Paladins are like CE rogues. They only difference is CE rogue does not pretend to have morally high ground.
>>47008145
Khalil Gibran?
>>47008004
¨What of the evil, that secures the good for all?
>>47014570
Go to Overtime and look for Kamen Rider Amazons. The S is important.
>>47016464
It's Lawful Evil. Or Chaotic Good.
>>47008004
The paladin in my group is not like this at all and it's annoying as fuck.
"We shouldn't just kill everyone. Let's try to talk to them."
>>47017486
But is it deserving of the paladin's fury?
>friend always insists on playing paladins (even in modern settings where there's no religion)
>never smites evil on sight and always gives them chance to repent
>throws fits when pvp breaks out at level 1
Should we just ban him from playing paladins?
>>47017529
Tell him to play clerics instead
>>47017511
Depends on how much Lawful Stupid was thrown in the mix. If I was a pal, I would growl and deal with it while keeping an eye on that sucka.
>>47011653
Well, it would be a valid criticism, if not for the fact that DnD morality is very distinct from our own, since some entities have an objective Evil nature.
Come to think of it, criminalism in DnD must be a fascinating science.
>>47008753
>For outsider beings, not for fucking mortals
Mortals can have a radical alignment. That means they actually have some particles of elemental of Law/Chaos/Order/Evil in their bloodstream.
Granted, most nice people, petty thiefs, complete sheeps or libertarians are still True Neutral.
>>47017573
We did.
He then went on about that this is what true paladins do.
>>47017529
>even in modern settings where there's no religion
>>47008004
Not s big fan of "smite on sight" paladins.They're mostly murderhobos using the alignment system as an easy excuse.
Isn't the entire point in being good that you try your best not to kill? Shouldn't a paladin struggle to find a better solution? At least with humans and other intelligent beings.
>>47017529
Same friend.
It's fucking annoying as shit.
But then he's always talking to his party members like they're pure fucking evil and he will kill them as soon as they get a little happy about striking down a foe.
If he does, I'm gonna kill him the fuck off.
>>47008004
Pepole like OP should never be permited to play a Paladin.
What the heck, they should be never permit at the table.
>>47008004
You are not a true paladin. A true paladin asks God first, then commences smiting if Deus Vult.
>>47012420
a kamen rider that straight up murders the mooks/minions/monsters and pulls his weapons out of his own body.... I like it...
>>47017663
One of the tenets of being a paladin is mercy, repentance, and forgiveness, which you aren't doing by ripping people a new one with your blade.
Think about it like this, taking an evil person and convincing him to be a good person takes away one evil pawn and gives good another soldier to act on their behalf.
By contrast, outright murdering everyone just because they ping as evil on your smite-o-vision not only takes away one potential asset to the side of good but also taints your own soul since you were too eager to commit murder than help someone, which could end up causing you to fall, which would then give evil a powerful ally in the long run.
There's also the fact that there's a difference between someone being evil because of circumstance and someone being evil because of choice. You may not necessarily be able to convert a demon to the side of good but you might be able to convince the cultist of the error of their ways.
Also, having Javert Paladins going around smiting people will leave a bad taste in the random civilian's mouth and could cause some to defect to evil since they perceive Paladins, and by extention their gods, as merely church sanctioned assassins that are given permission to strike down people who do too much "evil" actions, which becomes scary when you consider what Catholics have done without the aid of supernatural magic. I mean, imagine how many young and impressionable young people could fall into evil's clutches because they saw a paladin murdering someone in cold blood, with the only explanation needed being "he pinged evil."
Not to mention how easy it is for someone to change someone's alignment through arcane sorceries and trinkets.
>>47014710
>Actually citing 3.5e for anything
Third edition is the reason why alignments are so fucked up today.
>>47018864
Detect evil is a power granted by his god. So using detect evil IS asking, unless his god is a dick and gave him an inaccurate or faulty spell.
>>47020434
Do you realize how many ways there are to alter one's alignment within the context of D&D?
I would be petrified to smite anyone who pings as evil just because of how easy it would be for an evil wizard to alter some random guy's alignment and it turns out that I smited the local tanner and orphaned his son.
>>47019739
Found the Oathbreaker.
>>47017511
It would depend on the situation. Is it some prick pulling some Ozymandias situation where they're killing a bunch of people because they think that's the best option despite never being forced to do so? You bet a paladin would be angrier than Rorschach at that point. A good paladin probably wouldn't tolerate "the ends justify the means" bullshit unless it was literally the only option available and even then they would hold a bit of reservation about it.
>>47021426
I thought detect evil doesn't detect a person's alignment, but rather literal evil energy like undead, an evil god worshiper, or evil magic. The best option is to threaten whoever detects as evil to explain why and if discovered, commence the smiting.
>>47008004
>friendly reminder that if you play lawful stupid paladin you are just as a bad as "chaotic neutevil" players.
But yeah, screw evil.
Is the Punisher a modern world Paladin? I don't think he's particularly religious but he kills scum left and right.
>>47023199
At best, he's a vengeance paladin.
ITT: Americans and Judge Dredd fanboys
Nobody's masculinity is this fragile. I thought.
>>47023199
mm, paladins tend to have religious overtones.
Daredevil would almost be considered more of a paladin, since he's moderately catholic.
>>47023278
Daredevil doesn't like to kill tho.
>>47023293
>implying paladins need to kill to get their point across.
>>47016362
Really a fantastic little book.
>>47009292
Friendly contact with an evil outsider is a falling offense.
>>47023388
I thought I recognized that.
>>47008004
>pic related
the most paladinic paladins that ever paladined
>didn't care about petty crime
>turned themselves in when they killed someone in self defense
>did not hold back on smiting evil or the "corrupt" as they put it.
i could go on.
>>47024122
fucking hell forgot the pic
>>47023194
>I thought detect evil doesn't detect a person's alignment, but rather literal evil energy like undead, an evil god worshiper, or evil magic.
Nope, if someone has an alignment that reads evil, they ping on the paladin's smite-o-meter.
>>47019739
Don't try to apply RL morals to DnD. DnD is a system of absolute objective morality.
Killing an Evil person in DnD is a Good act. Not simply good; cosmic Good.
>taking an evil person and convincing him to be a good person takes away one evil pawn and gives good another soldier to act on their behalf.
Redemption takes time and isn't guaranteed. Also according to Lords of the Abyss after a certain number of atrocities you're cosmically irredeemable, no matter how many good deeds you do afterwards.
>taints your own soul since you were too eager to commit murder than help someone,
It's not murder since it's literally Lawful. And the two aren't mutually exclusive. In fact, killing bandits, killers and rapists often helps their future victims.
>that there's a difference between someone being evil because of circumstance and someone being evil because of choice.
Yep, that's the difference between Neutral and Evil.
>having Javert Paladins going around smiting people will leave a bad taste in the random civilian's mouth and could cause some to defect to evil since they perceive Paladins, and by extention their gods, as merely church sanctioned assassins that are given permission to strike down people who do too much "evil" actions.
Or it could reassure them on the fact that no bad deeds turn unpunished, and persuade them not to turn Evil since you'll end up dead.
Which is one of the primary goals of punishment. Do you think police arresting someone automatically turn people into criminals? Ever heard of the social contract?
I fear people weren't crying during medieval executions when some criminal was quartered or flayed to death.
>Not to mention how easy it is for someone to change someone's alignment through arcane sorceries and trinkets.
I would consider someone that use crowns of alignment change on every evil foe he encounters to be worse than a slaying paladin. Since he basically erases the person instead of sending him to the afterlife.
>>47024819
>I would consider someone that use crowns of alignment change on every evil foe he encounters to be worse than a slaying paladin. Since he basically erases the person instead of sending him to the afterlife.
Isn't that a mercy to the evil person (in that they don't get tortured forever in hell or wherever) and potentially to their future innocent victims (if they manage to rise in the ranks and become an invading demon or whatever)? I mean, it seems like a win-win situation.
>>47024819
>Killing an Evil person in DnD is a Good act. Not simply good; cosmic Good.
Except that wanton slaughter and cruelty is a tenet of Evil. Redemption and Mercy are the only thing separating a Paladin from an Assassin.
>Redemption takes time and isn't guaranteed. Also according to Lords of the Abyss after a certain number of atrocities you're cosmically irredeemable, no matter how many good deeds you do afterwards.
You're not always dealing with CE liches and demons from the 9 hells, sometimes you're just dealing with humanoids who have allowed themselves to be taken over or corrupted by evil forces beyond their comprehension.
If you kill everyone that pings as evil to your smite-o-vision, what honestly makes you any different than an AntiPaladin that smites everything that pings as Good on his smite-o-meter.
Nothing! Because you're using it as a tool to justify your bloodlust and not as a tool to help and protect the ignorant.
>It's not murder since it's literally Lawful. And the two aren't mutually exclusive.
Yes they are.
Not every law broken is punishable by death and even the ones that are require a summary trial followed by an execution.
If you go around superseding the laws set forth to deal with criminals, you're in fact breaking the very laws that you've sworn to uphold, which would make you neutral or chaotic as opposed to lawful.
>In fact, killing bandits, killers and rapists often helps their future victims.
A person who kills hundreds of creatures with his own hands is way more frightening than some random bandits creeping along the side of the road.
Especially when he can justify his slaughter by stating "it was the right thing to do."
>Or it could reassure them on the fact that no bad deeds turn unpunished, and persuade them not to turn Evil since you'll end up dead.
Yes, because people respond well to threats and fear.
1/?
>>47024637
Not in 3.5 or PF. In 2E "Character alignment, however, is revealed only under unusual circumstances: characters who are strongly aligned, who do not stray from their faith, and who are of at least 9th level might radiate good or evil if intent upon appropriate actions" according to the SRD. If your DM has detect evil ping alignments in general he is doing it wrong.
>>47024819
cont. from >>47025319
>I fear people weren't crying during medieval executions when some criminal was quartered or flayed to death.
Because people in medieval times were uneducated and under the thumb of the local monarchy who controlled every aspect of their lives and had the means to secure their wealth and power for ages to come.
If anyone raised a stink over it, they'd just be arrested and executed too, but it doesn't mean that people necessarily enjoyed what was happening, nor did it mean that enjoyed their rulers either.
>I would consider someone that use crowns of alignment change on every evil foe he encounters to be worse than a slaying paladin. Since he basically erases the person instead of sending him to the afterlife.
You're missing the point entirely mate.
The point is, how would one necessarily be able to tell that random citizen #362 was in fact evil based on smite-o-vision alone when there are so many ways to fool it?
>>47025319
Alright, now you aren't just applying RL morality to a fantasy setting with a cosmic balance, you are applying modern morality to a medieval one.
On a sidenote, you seems to be under the impression that a Javert-/Dredd-like paladin would kill someone for mundane things like jaywalking. It's not the case. Both are respectful of the law to a fault, and taking such an action would go against everything they stand for.
>>47025546
>Alright, now you aren't just applying RL morality to a fantasy setting with a cosmic balance, you are applying modern morality to a medieval one.
Dude, D&D is as much a medieval setting as fucking final fantasy.
>On a sidenote, you seems to be under the impression that a Javert-/Dredd-like paladin would kill someone for mundane things like jaywalking.
You've either misunderstood what I was saying or are being purposefully obtuse.
>>47024819
Cosmic Good is defined by the collective idea of Good in the Prime Material Plane. The alignment of a person is totally malleable, and is not defined as one or the other. Detect Good and Evil doesn't let you detect the alignments of people. Only places, objects, and monsters like undead and outsiders.
>>47008004
>that pic
Since this is never brought up, I assume no-one on /tg/ actually knows who is the paladin on that pic.
The character on that pic is a Knight Templar named Vascar de Guillon, from a manhwa called "Priest". He was a fanatical warrior who fought valiantly during the Crusades......until his family was infected by plague and was killed by the Inquisition because they were considered to be "possessed". After this incident, he found and made a pact with the Fallen Angel, Temozarela. Currently Vascar, or rather, his body, is a rotting host for Temozarela. Pic related, that's him/they.
So yeah, keep doing that "DEUS VULT" thing like Vascar de Guillon did, I am sure it will pay in the future guys.
"Priest" is pretty good comic by the way, you should check it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priest_(manhwa)
>>47008650
Too bad 1e and 2e don't matter anymore. 3.PF is the one true D&D, no matter how much loud grognards claim. Until your shitty system becomes the social assumption when D&D is mentioned, you're subcases.
And they'll never replace 3.PF, because 3.PF has already won thanks to the internet, a status quo that will never, ever change.
![lol[1].gif](https://i.imgur.com/ASZ56cW.gif "lol[1].gif")
>>47025430
>it doesn't mean that people necessarily enjoyed what was happening
For capital executions? Amongst numerous examples, people were cheering during the execution of Ravaillac, even if it was particularly gruesome. People even torn the pieces left of him apart.to be fair, there wasn't any TV at the time
I won't greentext the rest since it's purely ideological debate about life instead of being centered on paladins. I won't be able to convince you no matter what.
>how would one necessarily be able to tell that random citizen #362 was in fact evil based on smite-o-vision alone when there are so many ways to fool it?
Simple.
>smite-o-vision goes ping (and that's assuming you just use detect evil randomly instead of doing it on people you already suspect, which is stupid since you have a pretty limited number of charges a day).
>greetings citizen, please come with me in the church/guard pretinct for further interrogation.
Option 1: citizen comply; he's either cleared after throughful investigation and go back to his daily life, or is found guilty/sinful and is tried, condemned and punished*/redeemed.
Option 2: citizen attempts to flee a lawful representant of autority, which is a legal reason to shoot him even in current modern civilized society. Try to arrest, if successful see option 1, if not smite if resisting too much and endangering others. At this point the person has already commited several serious infractions.
>D&D is as much a medieval setting as fucking final fantasy.
pic related
*not automatic death penalty. You can have prison and other kind of sentences too.
>>47008004
I like the idea of playing a Paladin with a sense of scale.
>Stealing bread for the love of god who the fuck cares there's DEMONS storming in through a PORTAL of BLOOD and PAIN up north for the love of god.
>>47026154
3.5PF D&D doesn't give you anything when you Detect Evil on a person, because the alignments of people are malleable things. No one is pure evil or good.
3.5PF is also old news now that 5e is around.
Can you use detect evil in 5e to determine if someone is evil or not, or does it just detect fiends and monsters and stuff?
My problem with the paladin class is that people expect this armored hunk with a huge hammer to, whenever he sees evil done, sit down and have a nice talk about the person responsible's past, motivations and feelings, and often naively forgives because they promised they wouldn't do it again. I understand mercy and repentance is part of the concept, but wouldn't it be more appropiate that this kind of work be expected of clerics/priests and the paladins, while still being able to do so, are more focused on dealing with the nasty work that would benefit from so much martial skill and murder equipment?
I don't know, to put it in an analogy I guess a paladin should be less about patching up a limb (redemption) and more about amputating it if it's clear that trying to patch it up is just not practical (cleave and smite)
I'm not saying they should be super triggerhappy, just that too often they're put into these moral conflicts over stuff that doesn't really require a supercharged divine killing machine to resolve. Bandits/thieves/murderers can just be arrested and left in the care of proper authorities if we're not living in a monstruous distopia and the law still more or less works. The paladin can do that stuff, but it's more appropiate that his skills be directed to stuf like demons and warlocks
>>47026261 made a prett good tl:dr for what I'm trying to say
Also, one thing that fucks me up is when a mass murderer or a tyrant pulls the mercy and redemption card but ONLY when they've been beaten and clearly only to save their own hide and the paladin has to relent. At that point being a palading is a crutch that actually outweights the divine magic benefits for your justice enforcement and you might as well not be one.
>>47008834
Some people consider the Punisher a paladin.
>>47026554
How? Does he ever bring God or religion to his work?
God and religion is the cornerstone of a paladin. Without it, you're not a paladin. I don't know too much about the Punisher, but I don't think he brings God to his work too much.
>>47026400
It's called Divine Sense for Paladins.
Just detects celestials, fiends, and undead and places or objects that have been consecrated or desecrated, like with the hallow spell.
There is a spell called Detect Evil and Good that allows the detection of aberrations, celestials, elementals, fey, fiends or undead, and places or objects consecrated or desecrated for its duration. This sense is blocked by certain materials and thicknesses of walls.
No actual detection of alignment. Few mechanics actually interact with alignment in 5e.
>>47010170
You guys can do mental gymnastics all day to explain how the guy cutting flour with chalk isn't anymore then a money grubbing scumbag.
Just like I explain the valiant knights of the Crusade are holy warriors because in my version God really did tell them to kill all those devil worshipping Saracen scum.
>>47026625
In D&D maybe. But he's a crusading warrior who has given everything he has to fight the evil and corrupt in this world and will keep doing so till his dying breath.
>>47026832
You can do that in DnD as well without being a paladin.
Do we have to pick one extreme or the other? I like to give criminals and evil creatures one chance to surrender, before we've crossed swords. If they accept, they'll be taken to a temple of my order, where the priests can take the time they need to rehabilitate them under conditions appropriate for their misdeeds. If they refuse, no mercy, no quarter, no hope.
>>47026444
The way I see it, Paladins and and the like are generally reserved for when the peaceful solution has already failed. A Paladin is content in letting the party-face negotiate a peaceful solution, but ultimately a Paladin's job is to deal with a deadly problem as quickly and with as little risk to bystanders as possible. If that means a decapitation or two, then so be it.
>>47027090
Exactly, Clerics evangelize and convert. Paladins are weapons.
>>47027090
> A Fighter shouldn't allow for diplomatic solutions because a Fighter's job is to fight
A Paladin is a member of a party, and any situation they walk into doesn't turn into "unsalvagble mess requiring excessive use of deadly force" by virtue of the Paladin existing near it.
Just play a LE Fighter and get it over with.
>>47026554
"Some people" are idiots.
>>47027425
>>A Paladin is content in letting the party-face negotiate a peaceful solution
it's like you didn't even read the post before you gave your worthless opinion
>>47025546
Also keep in mind that a Judge Dredd Paladin wouldn't be super-kill happy. Dredd always killed criminals as a last resort when their crimes dictated the sentence was death and preferred imprisoning them in the isocubes.
>>47026832
Then he's a champion of justice, revenge, or some other ideal.
If we don't go by DnD terms, a paladin is a high-ranking knight that serves as personal guard for the king (and technically, it's only for Carolus Magnus)The punisher also a fucking hypocrite since he pussied out of commiting suicide on at least two occasions after accidentally shooting innocent people. If he was a Paladin he would have fallen more than once.
>>47015924
Name a higher authority of Law than the God of Law.
>>47017859
>Isn't the entire point in being good that you try your best not to kill?
No.
>>47029036
Then your paladin should fall or your god has become corrupted if straight up killing a thief with no questions asked is viewed as just in either of their eyes. It's certainly not the act of a lawful good paladin.
>>47029163
Man you didn't even move the goalposts you just abandoned them.
>>47029400
Explain to me how a normal paladin can justify straight up killing a person they caught stealing.
>>47008670
All this talk exonerating the baker using chalk in food.
None about the banker stealing thousands to make sure the bank doesn't collapse so that millions won't be lost to millions more and people wake up still able to buy bread, adulterated or unadulterated.
>>47008004
>thinks black and white morality is good, interesting, or particularly compelling
>>47029562
It's a cathartic escape from the moral ambiguity permeating contemporary media. It's fun.
>>47029453
Not even him but
He saw evil
He smote evil
How is that hard to comprehend you double nigger?
>>47029654
Yes, seeing the same tired arguments between moralfags and edgelords is the height of fun isn't it?
>>47029693
He became a vigilante and killed a man for a crime that didn't warrant the death penalty.
When you decide laws to follow, you're no better than the people who ignore it.
>>47029719
I don't argue with them, I kill them.
>>47029749
Lawyer, judge and executioner all in one
Welcome to the life of a paladin motherfucker
>>47029693
All people who steal aren't necessarily evil
Stealing is rarely punished with death in lawful society
Death is not a fucking solution for every crime you dribbling retard
If you were a lawful good paladin, you would have enough wisdom to not kill every lawbreaker you come across else you would fall, only the undead and demons (depending on the settings) can be reasonably smote without any questions asked
How is this so hard to understand you dribbling retard?
>>47029804
Paladins are not infallible and they do not get to choose how they punish laws. They must follow strict guidelines and the laws of their gods. A paladin does not have free reign to kill everyone they come across. You don't get to say "lol, kill all lawbreakers because I can" else you're going to start facing divine retribution by any lawful good divinity.
>>47029812
Evil is as evil does
Death is the solution, it prevents all future crimes of the guilty party
Also, repeating dribbling retard made you seem silly
>>47029763
>>47029804
Paladins who justify murder with their smite-o-vision are no better than the monsters they claim to protect us from.
At least antipaladins are honest in their debauchery and don't hide behind their codes when people criticize their methods.
>>47029913
Your opinion is noted
>>47029964
Opinion
Noted
>>47029948
Your short-sighted actions will only produce more evil once the people feel trapped between you and the monsters lurking in the shadows.
A paladin should be a light to show the path to righteousness, not simply the light at the end of the tunnel.
>>47029964
Didn't claim they were moral, only that I enjoy playing them.
>>47009475
>murder
>good
Pick one, retard.
>>47029979
>>47030034
Might makes right only serves evil in the long run.
For who truly profits from death and destruction of innocents than those who revel in it while telling themselves that they're good people?
>>47030126
You're not playing a lawful good paladin. At best, the actions are lawful neutral. At best.
>>47030126
How can you be a LG paladin if you aren't moral?
>>47029948
The average person isn't absolutely evil
Killing someone over a minor crime is not a good aligned action
I didn't proofread my sentence, that's on me
>>47029948
Ok, let me describe a situation in which your paladin can easily fall and be considered a criminal using this train of thought
>paladin comes across thief
>this thief is stealing from a noble that screwed them over
>this is the first time they've actually stolen something and they're doing it to provide for their family
>paladin kills them anyway
>they were in a lawful good kingdom, one where thievery is punished by jail time
>paladin has just now committed murder
>paladin is now considered a criminal and has fallen for their unlawful act
>>47030169
>>47030192
I think a character's intent should be considered in regards to their alignments. I don't consider my paladin's actions moral personally, but my paladin believes that he is being lawful good.
>>47030344
The problem with that train of thought is that nobody actually believes that what they're doing is necessarily wrong and even less are going to come out and say "hmm, I guess I did kinda fuck up and do something evil, I'll work on that now kthxbye."
If intent was to be considered in an alignment then it begs the question, why are alignments even a thing in the first place?
What kinda shit has your paladin done?
>>47030344
Your paladin's belief does not justify his actions, they must answer to their god after all. A lawful good god would not condone their actions and would stop supplying them with divine power, leading them to falling. A lawful good paladin is expected to act as both a sword AND a shield against evil. "Smite all the evil no matter what" is not the summation of their job description. You can play a "deus vult, purge all the evil" paladin, but don't try to pass them off as lawful good because they aren't. Even a Vengeance Paladin would find that train of thought a bit much. Paladins are meant to be the police of the gods, as such they're expected to follow rules and guidelines in order to do their job effectively.
>>47026154
the internet thought myspace was the end all be all of social media at one point, things change
>>47030447
>The problem with that train of thought is that nobody actually believes that what they're doing is necessarily wrong
I disagree. Some people are self-serving and are completely aware of it, or some people know what they're doing is evil but justify it the name of a higher cause.
>and even less are going to come out and say "hmm, I guess I did kinda fuck up and do something evil, I'll work on that now kthxbye."
I don't see how people's aptitude for self-reflection is relevant to the topic of intent.
>If intent was to be considered in an alignment then it begs the question, why are alignments even a thing in the first place?
To categorize the character's intentions and moral beliefs?
>What kinda shit has your paladin done?
Generally he smites people, though he'll mostly leave common criminals to the authorities, unless he finds their crimes particularly offensive. What's important is that he believe he's lawful and that he has never committed an act of evil. A lawful evil character would acknowledge that he have committed evil, but perhaps justify it in their pursuit of order.
>>47009475
>this is how the paladin falls.
don't be a nigger next time.
>>47030555
>Your paladin's belief does not justify his actions, they must answer to their god after all. A lawful good god would not condone their actions and would stop supplying them with divine power, leading them to falling.
I don't think you've refuted my point, what if that god, which we would agree was evil, believed itself to be lawful good?
>A lawful good paladin is expected to act as both a sword AND a shield against evil.
Who says he does not protect the innocent? He certainly endeavors to protect those he believes to be innocent.
>>47029948
Every Empyreal Lord has a clause for restraint.
These creatures are the be-all and end-all of goodness. They hold nothing back with fiends and usually with undead (Korada is happy to redeem both), but with mortals they show restraint first.
People. Can. Be. Redeemed. They can be taught a better way, evil isn't in their nature.
Should the rights of the victims be forgotten? I play a Paladin of Ragathiel, so no, but does that mean murder is always the answer? Of course not. The irredeemable die quickly and painlessly, but those I suspect can be changed are hauled off to heaven's jails.
Remember, brother,to err is human, to forgive, divine.
>>47030850
Alignment isn't based on belief. A lawful evil person can still believe they're good or the hero but they're still lawful evil. That goes especially for a god.
>Who says he does not protect the innocent? He certainly endeavors to protect those he believes to be innocent.
They also need to know when to use their sword. Just randomly killing a criminal is not something a lawful good, emphasis on the lawful good, paladin would do. Hell, it's not something a good town guard would do and they aren't the mortal tools of a god. When a random town guard can be considered more righteous than you, you aren't a very good paladin.
>>47030730
>I disagree. Some people are self-serving and are completely aware of it, or some people know what they're doing is evil but justify it the name of a higher cause.
Others believe that what they're doing will end up being good in the long run while others will justify themselves by saying shit like "he deserved it" and "I had to do it."
>I don't see how people's aptitude for self-reflection is relevant to the topic of intent.
Because you cannot judge others without being able to openly judge yourself and your actions.
>To categorize the character's intentions and moral beliefs?
Then it fails totally in every regard.
When you stop to consider what each alignment is described as being, how does one truly belong to one alignment over another?
>A lawful evil character would acknowledge that he have committed evil, but perhaps justify it in their pursuit of order.
Actually, some would argue that not even being able to acknowledge an evil act that you committed would be some form of Lawful Neutral.
I mean, how can you call yourself good if you can't even recognize when you've just committed an evil action?
>>47030974
>Alignment isn't based on belief. A lawful evil person can still believe they're good or the hero but they're still lawful evil. That goes especially for a god.
Perhaps a man believes that life is suffering, and he's evil, so he spends his time saving as many people from death as he can. Is that person good? And the man that commits evil but truly believes he is doing good? Is that man evil? I don't think it's as clear as you're portraying it to be.
>They also need to know when to use their sword. Just randomly killing a criminal is not something a lawful good, emphasis on the lawful good, paladin would do.
He doesn't believe he's just randomly killing civilians, he thinks he's smiting degenerate evil-doers.
>Hell, it's not something a good town guard would do and they aren't the mortal tools of a god. When a random town guard can be considered more righteous than you, you aren't a very good paladin.
I don't care whether people consider the town guard more righteous than my paladin, only what my paladin believes himself to be.
>>47031158
They're both evil according to the alignment system, as DnD alignment is pretty much a deontological system.
>>47031104
>Others believe that what they're doing will end up being good in the long run while others will justify themselves by saying shit like "he deserved it" and "I had to do it."
Completely agree with you, that's exactly what I was saying to justify neutral and evil alignments in regards to intent. A lawful good character would justify their actions as lawful and good, a lawful neutral character would disregard the morality of the action, they were simply upholding the law, and a lawful evil character would justify what they know is evil because they're committed to upholding the law.
>When you stop to consider what each alignment is described as being, how does one truly belong to one alignment over another?
By looking at the descriptions of each alignment, and judging whether your character believes they belong within one of those descriptions.
Actually, some would argue that not even being able to acknowledge an evil act that you committed would be some form of Lawful Neutral.
>I mean, how can you call yourself good if you can't even recognize when you've just committed an evil action?
It's like you're not reading what I'm saying. It doesn't matter whether something is objectively evil or good, or the character's ability to reflect on their actions, only whether they believe what they're doing is bad or good. That's my entire point.
>>47031158
>Perhaps a man believes that life is suffering, and he's evil, so he spends his time saving as many people from death as he can. Is that person good? And the man that commits evil but truly believes he is doing good? Is that man evil? I don't think it's as clear as you're portraying it to be.
It depends on the person. Alignment isn't completely rigid and concrete, but "ends justify the means" people tend to be considered lawful evil when they the cause for a lot of people's suffering. Stalin believed he was doing what was best for his country, but he would easily be considered lawful evil.
>He doesn't believe he's just randomly killing civilians, he thinks he's smiting degenerate evil-doers.
He would be delusional.
>I don't care whether people consider the town guard more righteous than my paladin, only what my paladin believes himself to be.
Again, your paladin is delusional and probably fell a long time ago. Paladins are judged by their actions by the divine. Their belief factors very little into it. If their actions don't match the morals they profess, they are little more than hypocrites.
>>47031370
>By looking at the descriptions of each alignment, and judging whether your character believes they belong within one of those descriptions.
What's the difference between CE, CN, and NE?
Because going by their definitions in the PHB, they're all basically the same alignment just with slightly different connotations.
>>47030730
>Generally he smites people, though he'll mostly leave common criminals to the authorities, unless he finds their crimes particularly offensive. What's important is that he believe he's lawful and that he has never committed an act of evil. A lawful evil character would acknowledge that he have committed evil, but perhaps justify it in their pursuit of order.
A thief is a common criminal, so I don't get what you're arguing for here since that sounds reasonable. The people arguing with you aren't saying a paladin can't kill period, just that it needs to be done with nuance. Unrepentant serial killer? Usually grounds for dispensing justice. Self defense? Can be definitely be argued for, but really depends on the situation. Person who committed a crime other than rape, murder, or worse? Just bring them to the proper authorities and let society pass their judgement. There are other ways to dispense justice than a sword to the face, lawful good paladins are supposed to know that smiting is usually reserved to outright evil like undead, demons, and murderers. Killing a bandit that has otherwise kept their victims alive would not be justifiable for a lawful good paladin.
>>47031618
I'd like to add that said bandit has surrendered and at the mercy of the paladin. In general, a paladin should try and spare those that surrender. That doesn't mean they need to spare the BBEG if he happens to be mega-Hitler and just surrendering because he's been defeated, but someone guilty of a crime that hasn't otherwise murdered anyone or a truly repentant person shouldn't be executed when at your mercy.
>>47008670
They're both dicks. The banker is just the bigger dick, and more likely to get away with it.
>>47027495
>Not acting as the face with your high CHA
???
>>47034301
>having your Cha be anything but your natural righteousness and force of will
>learning the bullshit games of social manoeuvering
>not focusing your efforts on being the sword and shield of the innocent
>>47008621
Sometimes you just want to have the good guys, the bad guys, and the satisfying sizzle when the bad guy eats your choice of Holy Sword/Fireball/Column of Smiting Light from Heaven.
>>47029812
This one had to be if a fucking paladin showed up to kill him.
>>47034520
Well, more a paladin randomly catches him preforming the theft and decides his life is forfeit because of that alone.
>>47009428
Fuck yeah, let's go kick Hell's ass!
>>47008004
I want you to envision a lawful good Darth Vader.
Dour disposition. Fatalist. Encourages hatred of evil. That was my last paladin.
Long story short, we dealt with a rapist thief early on in the campaign. My Pally chopped off his sword arm and prepared to deal the deathblow.
He of course begged for mercy.
"If you were deserving of mercy, you wouldn't be in this situation."
Then he put his head on a pike outside the gate of the town the thief had pillaged.
Later events included executing everyone in an inn because they knowingly helped a war criminal, and using permanent-nerve numbing poison on a Loviatarian Cleric for interrogation. (No pain sense, no connection to goddess of torture)
>>47034545
He pinged as evil, right? The paladin didn't just shank Aladdin in the street for stealing bread to feed other orphans.
He found evil, judged it, smote it. Sure he could be redeemed but if he already has enough evil about him that a paladin can see it, I can't help but feel that evil has been dealt with today.
>>47008650
2e had it's share of alginment problems, though.
Really they've got no excuse for not just reprinting the alignment guide from the 1e DMG over and over. Pic related ruined generations of games.
>>47034451
sounds unoptimal
>>47010636
You, I like you.
>>47008004
Well well. If it isn't my old friend, the Blackguard who doesn't even realize what Knight of Hell he's let himself become. How does it feel to finally let yourself go and reveal you haven't the strength of character to accomplish anything without violence, and that killing in the name of was all that ever really mattered?
The sweetest sound of the incessant einging of a bell that doesn't even realize it's broken.
>>47008004
We didn't need an entire thread to tell you're autistic op.
Real people don't act like that you robot.
>>47034614
I like your paladin.
>>47008004
says someone who posts a nights templar picture.
>>47008834
The Punisher would make the most terrifying Paladin ever, assuming his god was alright with the never-ending murder
>>47008004
All paladins are evil by definition.
>>47008004
>Me: Since when was destroying evil the same as creating good?
>You: I don't understand what you're talking about.
>Me: Of course you don't.
>>47008004
Lawful Good=Lawful Evil
Any religious nutjob needs to be put down.
>>47035903
>Good and Evil characters are necessarily devout
>But only when they support legal systems
