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>Shoot straight
>Conserve ammo
>And never, ever cut a deal with a dragon
What's the best combat anthrodrone/walker? If I want to have a bunch of robot friends in the back of the van, what do I get? Are Duelists the best, or did some splat have a better one? What about the Cheetah?I'm thinking a Little Buddy as the home/usual inhabited body for my AI rigger, yes/no?
To the guy in previous thread with only 2 players: play matrix lite. Deckers need constant babysitting from the GM anyway, so you're not missing much.
>>46888191
You know you can link back to previous threads, rights? Two angle brackets are a hell of a thing.
>>46888262
Well yeah but I just wanted to point out in a new thread that matrix is gay.
>>46888191
NPC hacker works fine. Instead of focusing on the hacker, you can focus on what the rest of the team needs to do - get the data tap to the correct terminal, defend against corpsec / stay stealthy, etc etc.
>>46888389
So saying that last thread wasn't enough, you have to do it this thread too? 'The Matrix is gay' is such a deep and important statement that it needs to be repeated?
Also, that doesn't address the fact that you are still a retard for not actually addressing your post to the guy it's addressed to, using the proper format so it can be understood.
>>46888559
I did all that knowingly.
>>46888086
I think duelist is the shittiest one. Personally I like this german secretary with unpronounceable name because of all around decent stats and the highest pilot rating available. Pilot 4 means you can pump his arms agility up to 8.
How would you feel as a player if the target of your latest heist turned out to be basically a pokemon?
How useful is a monofilament whip stored in a finger compartment?
>>46888870
I'd probably feel like the very best.
>>46888909
Good if you've got the skills to use it. Not so good otherwise.
>>46888933
but anon, you have to turn the prototype gene modded pikachu over to the johnson
>>46888870
Catch him.
>>46888909
Definitely more useful than monowhip stored as a stick. Overall I think it should be last resort weapon for non-combatants, not something you use regularly.
>>46888969
Around Rockets, watch your pockets. Time to make my father and grandfathers proud, I just found my new anti-cyber buddy.
>>46888984
>>46888933
>mid-run complication: The containment box breaks in the middle of some tall grass
>>46889099
>End-run complication: The team refuses to hand over their starting pokemon to the johnson
>>46889112
>End-run complication: The team's asshole rival shows up and challenges them to a battle. His pokemon has the element advantage.
>>46889165
>Opposing rival shows up right after the run goes south into combat and the runners are beat to shit
>>46889189
>Get your ass beat
>Still drops you off at the hospital, takes half of your dosh
Why is it that in all the campaigns I am watching, the GMs use CFD?
>>46889243
To be fair, using a monowhip is basically a war crime.
Shit's brutal as fuck.
>>46889602
That's true, but it's also humane in the way that it kills relatively cleanly. Getting your head sliced off is macabre as fuck, but at least you won't suffer. Poisons and blunt trauma make for a lot more painful end.
>>46889704
>>46889635
Well, one of my wetwork johnsons historically is a little girl in a limo that has a full wet bar of juice boxes and chocolate milk.
>>46889686
>Poisons and blunt trauma make for a lot more painful end.
I wouldn't say that excuses it. And that's also assuming you don't miss and end up just lopping off a limb or two.
>>46889784
>>46889784
I know I'm not going to get a satisfactory answer, by why oh why does a megacorp hire a six-year old, and give them the sort of executive power and budget to manage Shadowrun operations.
>>46889862The little girl is actually playing weekend at the burnies with various previously powerful members of the corporation
>>46889862
Who says she was hired? Maybe the doting CEO dad just gives her a 20k nuyen weekly allowance and she REALLY wants that unicorn.
>>46889912
>muh hardcore black trenchcoat setting can only have hardcore edgy characters in it and nothing else
going to a different subject tho, what sort of 'setting' do you feel fits shadowrun best? nova80s like the original was, where things are grim and the cyberpunk is in your face, or a nova2010s 'understated' cyberpunk? I personally prefer the latter. glitzier glammier 'cleaner' visuals, etc, no grunge.this lets me have cute girl fixer/Johnsons easier.
do also keep in mind that if a little girl walks up to a shadowrunner crew and offers a good payday, who's to say they wouldn't just take the job? pay's pay.
>>46889946
And how exactly does that allow her to get a private limo and contacts in the Shadow community? People need to remember that kids are really really really dumb, and no one in any kind of right mind would give a kid 20k to work off of in a month (Also considering that's probably one-half of your average hotshot executive's paycheque).
>>46889998
I run my setting weird.
Shit's fucked, and sometimes the guy who hires you happens to be a 13 year old otaku girl with an SMG and beefy cyberarms.
>>46890003
maybe it's not actually a little girl, but a neoteny SURGEd exec who ran with the image and made it her own
>>46890003
>not buying your child brain-enhancing wares
>>46890003
Her mob don papa could be grooming her for leadership. Gotta start while they're young.
Plus, kids are ruthless; if you encourage lethal behavior they'll put someone in the ground without a second thought (see child soldiers).
>>46890228
Yes but as I said, kids are very very very very stupid. They have no concept of economics, subtlety, legality, whatever. I'd say not until someone is about 16 do they actually have a well developed rational mind that is required to work business.
Being ruthless doesn't matter if you're an idiot. And giving children exorbitant amounts of money in hopes of teaching them how to use it properly is an exercise in futility, and anyone who is smart enough to have 20k in disposable income would know that.
>>46890278
I think you're overexaggerating out of salt at the idea that a child would have a place in shadowrun, the land of 13 year old megabrained kids running successful otaku crime syndicates.
>>46890305
I suppose I am trying to argue realism to those who aren't bothering with any concept of it.
>>46890278
>>46890305
Shadowrun, where a 16 year old elf girl can capture one of the most wanted men in the world, just to prove she's a capable shadowrunner.
It's really not much of a stretch.
>>46890383
Okay, but in fairness, that's fucking /dev/grrl. I'm pretty sure she's one of the writer's waifus.
>>46890373
why would you argue realism in a topic where the MAKERS OF THE GAME already said "fuck that we can have superkids in our metaplot"?
That and there are so many, many, many mind augmenting enhancements that your complaints just sound petty at best.
>>46890419
Because anyone who is at all sane ignores the metaplot.
>>46890477
The metaplot, entire archetypes, entire swathes of enhancement options, entire swathes of identity altering options, the possibility of exceptional attributes, the possibility of super soldiers, the possibility of natural genius, and the entire idea of not appearing as you are.
Yeah, it's sane to ignore all that.
>>46890278
Not her fault her pop was irresponsible enough to let her in on the family business at that age, doting as he is. If her driver knows a guy (and doesn't want the boots put to him for telling the boss's daughter no), it could happen. The pay could easily have been grabbed from mom's purse, if pop had at least enough sense to limit her spending.
>>46890517
>>46889998
With all the talk about loli, how do I include futa catgirl as a Johnson?
>>46890373
You do understand that your kids' performance is basically going through an arms race in SR world? Children are literally stuffed full of cerebral boosters and the like to keep them at the top of the class. Who's to say one of them wouldn't want to blow steam by hiring a team of runners to do some odd jobs? I imagine having her own personal merc team would be really interesting for a loli.
>>46890588
There's not really a logical fallacy in the posts you're pointing at, anon.
Especially the one berating the guy for ignoring the dozens of possible ways to make a kid or kid lookin' thing viable.
>>46890619
>Ignoring the metaplot means ignoring all these other things.
The first anon wasn't even talking about lolis. I'm not sure the second was either.
They're both Black or White fallacies.
>>46890728
anon, that's not a logical fallacy, you just missed the point of the conversation.
Which is you have to ignore a HUGE FUCKING PILE of mechanical and setting details if you want to say there's no way for a kid to be involved.
You also have a minor case of "I'm not that guy", which also does not a logical fallacy imply.
>>46890591
>Approach 1
Be subtle about it. It might be obvious that the Johnson is a catgirl, but she'll be otherwise normal and as professional as your average Johnson. What's in her pants only comes up under circumstances that make sense (eg: the face takes a liking to her and seduces her, the decker rolls like 9 hits on Matrix Search).
>Approach 2
Be blatantly obvious about it. The Johnson wants to meet at a sauna, a nude beach, or something similar. She's nude (and expects the runners to be) when they meet. Boom, catgirl with a penis.
>Approach 3
The obvious, but not too obvious approach. Johnson (or maybe a close friend of the Johnson) is an exotic prostitute needing protection. This might include some time where she's at work and any peeping toms will see what she's packing. Also, your decker will be informed with ~2-3 hits on Matrix search.
>>46890762
>Which is you have to ignore a HUGE FUCKING PILE of mechanical and setting details if you want to say there's no way for a kid to be involved.
And I'm sure that the culture of the whole world has changed such that children are seen as mature and trustworthy and can deal out high priority jobs after getting picked up from middle school?
Unless there's some subplot about hormones in food maturing kids early, having grown adults taking a kid seriously is dumb. Kids have been getting smarter every generation, no denying that, but that doesn't matter. No hired killer is going to take a child seriously even if they're waving a bunch of cred around. Odds are more likely they'll mug them instead.
You see, you can't implant maturity.
>>46890933
>And I'm sure that the culture of the whole world has changed such that children are seen as mature and trustworthy and can deal out high priority jobs after getting picked up from middle school?
Well, according to the actual setting and metaplot, yes.
>>46890981
>Well, according to the actual setting and metaplot, yes.
[Citation needed]
>>46890588
now hold on>>46889998 my point was simply that most runners will take pay from whoever can pay them. if that means a rich kid is asking them to do things, most runners will take it cuz >allboutdanuyen.jpg
>>46890933
>attempting to mug a johnson at the first meet where they don't even have the certified credsticks on them and in a setting with digital currency
Do you even know what system you are talking about?
>>46890992
Otaku crime syndicates and intelligence boosting cyber AND bioware.
And entire metatypes that specifically look childish.
>>46891036
>implying most GMs allow metavariants
Gnomes can die in a fire
>>46891121
Okay, we get it, you get triggered by anything that happens to have anything to do with children.
That doesn't change that these things are absolutely riddled throughout the mechanics and setting.
>>46890933
>trying to mug the daughter of a big shot megacorp CEO who's surrounded by special forces tier bodyguards
Your funeral, chummer.
>>46890933
Do you even play shadowrun?
That's a bad idea for so many, many, many, many, many reasons.
Look man, all I'm saying is that if Rigger5 has a loli catgirl on the goddamn cover, then maybe it's just something that's in the game's blood.
I have no idea why it is, but maybe it just is and we should all stop trying to police everybody's personal tastes.
'Sides, who doesn't want to be the little girl sometimes?
>>46891378
>Thinking that's the actual cover art.
>>46891378
>being this retarded
>>46891497
Hey, at least he's not as retarded as the guy who thinks it's a good idea to mug the johnson.
>>46891378
>Rigger 5 has a loli catgirl on the cover
actually thats a fake cover you twat, the actual cover looks like garbage so someone modified the pdf as an injoke
>>46891378
By default rigger5 doesn't have a loli on the cover. Or a catgirl for that matter. It's base cover art is shit, but it doesn't have either of those things.
Also, people on 4chan tend to get upset when things that they aren't into get talked about a whole bunch. I'm not saying that that's a good thing but that's how things are. You should really back off a bit on the whole loli thing if you're so concerned about respecting other people's personal tastes.
>>46891440
Well now don't I feel silly. Still though, having little girls in a game doesn't always have to be weird and creepy.
A DM I had was a complete anime nerd with a metal plate in his skull and more than a few screws loose. When we went up against a "pale, raven haired girl of about 8 with one red and one black eye sizzling with electrical energy" I was clenching my anus waiting for the other shoe to drop.
Turned out to be one of the best boss fights we ever had, and we even got invited for tea later with her and her father, the local mob boss. Fun times.
>>46888865
The DIREKTIONSSEKRETAR is cool, but I've heard that drones get shredded easily, and I can't afford to drop 40k and change on something that won't last the run. I could get 10 Duelists for that price, so that even if they are shit I can at least use a bunch of them as distractions/cover for the actual adept and sammy.
Is there a midpoint, where I can do the rigger job of bringing the numbers to the fight while also having walker drones of appreciable quality?
>>46891841
the big advantage of anthroform drones is that they can wear/use metahuman equipment, and in particular means that can wear regular armor instead of needing to be upgraded with very expensive armor mods.
the solution to running lots of drones of any strip is the swarm program
the duelist is actually the best drone in the game, because it gets the benefits rigger5 brought to anthroforms without the higher price-tag rigger 5 gave anthros to compensate for this
>>46891917
So just throw some armour jackets on them, and let them run? I can do that. Any tips on a ride? Should I fit them into a Bulldog, and should I rack them or not?
Side note, can the Duelists retract their blades? It seems really dangerous and also stupid to have them out all the time (even if they don't scratch anything, it is super menacing).
>>46892054
you remove the swords because they're ass-useless
let em ride in the van, no point in wasting money on drone racks they dont need
or you can have each ride a motorcycle and set the duelist/bike pair as a swarm for your swarm program. the bike can drive itself while the duelist shoots with an assault rifle
>>46892181
There's no price given on pg 124 of Rigger 5 for Drone Weapon Mounts; is it listed elsewhere? Pg. 162 has the vehicle weapon mount prices, but the categories don't line up with those given for drones.
Also, am I reading the Swarm rules correctly in that you only get one actual attack, and the other drones in the swarm just provide bonuses to that attack?
>>46892396
word of freelancer says drone weapon mounts cost 800 x mp, 400 for the one that costs 0 mp. not that anthroforms need them unless you want to mount a weapon on them directly instead of using their robot hands
that is my interpretation of the swarm program too, which is why its generally best to use swarms of 2
>>46892396
>Also, am I reading the Swarm rules correctly
Yes, you are interpreting it correctly.
>>46892487
>not that anthroforms need them unless you want to mount a weapon on them directly instead of using their robot hands
I'd always read the Duelist as the blade-arms replacing the hands; doesn't make sense to me to have weapon mounts for them otherwise, especially when they specify that the mounts can't hold other weapons.
>>46892490
Darn. No Suppressive Fire Swarm for me.
>>46892578
Backing up the No-Hands thing, here's the Duelist on SR5's cover (which afaik is the only canon picture of one), with the arm going straight into the sword with no hand visible.
>>46892054
where are duelists from?
bookwise?
>>46892711
The SR5 Core book.
>>46891121
I like playing gnomes as small, adult elves.
>>46892711
SR5 core. They also have a starring role in the opening fluff of that book.
>>46892487
Found that freelancer comment
http://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=22807.msg421705#msg421705
However, I don't know if this is a case of 'CGL can't into math', because a Standard mount on vehicles (which covers tasers to assault rifles to flamethrowers) costs 1,500 nuyen at 8F, while a Large drone mount (needed for an assault rifle) is 3,200 nuyen (800*4 MP) and is 12F. You could practically buy another Duelist, or many other medium drones, just for the price of the mount, let alone the gun going with it.
>>46892733
I honestly glazed over those.
I didn't realize there were discount anthroforms.
I am troubled by the idea that this would make me have to learn blade skills if I want to jump in.
>>46892789
Gunnery.
>>46892832
The drone has a special Blades autosoft, I'd imagine you'd need the same skill.
>>46892787
yes, customizing drones is expensive. it has to be or riggers completely and utterly displace metahumans that use guns and swords
though the duelist already has 2 light mounts, remove the swords and put something else in there, or put on cyberhands
>>46892889
>equipping duelists with heavy pistols and cowboy hats
>they are now the OTHER kind of duelist
oh my god I could have my very own gang of robanditos on the CHEAP
>>46892860
No matter what the standard skill is, mounted weapons are gunnery. Even Targeting: X Autosofts are shorthand for "Gunnery with X weapon".
>>46892906
>Duelist
>Not equipping your drones to play children's card games
>>46892889
>though the duelist already has 2 light mounts, remove the swords and put something else in there, or put on cyberhands
>This drone comes with a unique Rating 3 Targeting (Swords) autosoft and mounts a pair of standard swords in special weapon mounts. (The mounted swords cannot be replaced with other weapons, but additional weapon mounts may be installed using the normal rules.)
And extra hands means buying additional cyberarms (though at half cost), unless I'm missing something.
However, there is something I did miss- The rules for pop-out mounts. You can get a gun that flips out of your drone for 100*(regular MP+1) nuyen. I don't need hands, I can get AK-97s shooting out of their groins for 1450! They're even concealed, for that extra surprise. CGL inconsistency strikes again!
>>46892906 could have his banditos for 200 nuyen+the guns, less if he wants the cheap blow-away panels instead of ones that go in and out.
>>46892889
OTOH, putting enhancements on sensor array cameras / microphones is crazy expensive, beyond even niche protection.
>>46893064
so basically I install pistols in the shoulders like a goddamn mech and have them sword people up real good when they get close.
I want to play a Dwarf StreetSam with claws and a passion for shotguns (basically Wolverine). How viable would this be?
>>46893187
They just think it's a regular Duelist, but their rounds are less effective (being absorbed by the 'ornamental' Japanese-style coat, actually reworked armour clothing/armour jacket depending on the budget).
As it closes in a Steyr pops out and sprays them with FA, making them flinch back into cover long enough for the drone to cover the last few precious meters. It's not a perfect killer, but it's sure as fuck going to distract them. I like this. I like this a lot.
>>46893064
With some AR reskinning or trid projectors, they could look exactly like in the gif without having to spend a bunch on making them lifelike.
>>46893261
Exceptionally easy.
>>46893299
I plan on making an AI character that jumps into a single pretty good drone, but being able to just have two to four duelists cover my van at all times ready to pop out and get slicing just appeals SO HARD.
>>46893325
Would I be able to keep up with a fairly experienced party though? I've been invited to play, and they've been together for quite a while now.
>>46893415
You can make yourself VERY hard to kill with the right augs. You'll be fine.
>everything uses ground vehicle
>but walking drones use a special snowflake walker skill
fuck
this is going to screw me right in the karma
>>46893527
Walker is a specialty of ground vehicle.
>>46893545
whaaaaa
I don't... understand this rulebook at all
>>46893545
>>46893558
Pilot Walker and Pilot Ground Craft are totally separate. Don't believe that anon's lies.
>>46893558
>>46893545
no, wait, I think I'm right here.
Pilot ground craft says "pilot any ground based vehicle, exclusing legged vehicles".
Yeah, this is going to bitch me right in the karma.
So, holo-projectors are apparently tiny enough that you can get holo-tech added to your gloves or a hood.
Is there anything stopping me from putting holo-projectors on a minidrone and creating illusory body-doubles?
>>46893586
It's a pretty easy Perception test (threshold 2, IIRC) to tell they're fake, but it seems like something you could do.
>>46893586
Holo-tech is obviously holo. Think star wars.
>>46893545
>>46893558
>>46893575
>>46893580
Shit, I messed up. Sorry for the confusion. Have some Chica for the troubles.
>>46893604
Pretty sure that's not true, since you do require a test to discern if it's fake, it's not immediately obvious.
Getting someone to blow an action to Observe in Detail to suss out which hologram is a hologram seems worthwhile.
>>46893647
well, it gave me a problem.
Do I go whole hog on walkers, or try to split it with ground craft for how useful ground craft is?
>>46893669
Even if you need to do a test for a standard hologram (are you sure that's not special tech, anyways) It wouldn't waste a turn for them. It'd be like a check willpower. Something they do in defence.
>>46893682
Just go for ground vehicles. Why would you even use a walker? Legs are worse at basically everything when compared to wheeled/tracked.
>>46893647
We don't allow your kind around here.
>>46893761
so that I can use an anthroform drone with human gear and shit.
>>46893767
What about ork lolis?
>>46893647
>>46893767
Yeah, only gals with proper tusks may participate!
>>46890373
>realism
>Shadowrun
Pick one. And if you don't pick Shadowrun, leave and never come back.
>>46893774
But why?
>>46893767
>>46893710
Nope, that's the 100% standard hologram projector from the corebook.
>>46893808
12packs of duelists, passing off as a human at a distance, being flat out cooler than wheeled drones, things like that.
>>46893819
The warhammer thread is this way, friend >>
>>46893837
If you're an AI, shouldn't you be hiding in a credstick or something rather than something that's obviously a drone?
Then dive into the drone when it's go time.
>>46893806
>le fantasy meme
It's you who should leave.
>>46893774
Your character better be an AI, chummer.
>>46893710
>It'd be like a check willpower. Something they do in defence.
You want to cite any rules or page numbers or anything here...?
>>46893819
>and then they all got horribly slaughtered
>>46893872
Just my GM ruling
>>46893869
yes.
>>46893862
I actually need to have a serious sit down talk with somebody about how exactly AIs jumping into things fucking works, what bonuses from your home node are used, and all the nitty gritty of this shit.
I am under the impression you have to go along in a physical item when your crew goes on a mission to avoid faraday buildings and such.
>>46893872
>>46893390
Basic Duelists are crap. Focus on getting a decent body first, you'll be strapped for resources enough as it is.
>>46893934
okay, let me ask a really dumb question.
If you jump into a robot hotsim VR from another device-
Are you in the robot? Or are you in the device?
Which actually contains the AI at that point.
>>46893868
>meme
>>46893975
If you're a Rigger AI with the Pilot Origin quality, you're in the robot and replacing its Pilot.
If you don't have said quality, you're in another device, but you cannot Jump In, only control by remote.
>>46894017
okay, so if I'm jumping in with pilot origin, if the robot dies, will I have to recompile/die?
Or will I just be dumped out and need to take damage like a rigger?
>>46893923
Those are the rules for magic illusions.
>>46894082
No shit. The point is they are resisted, not requiring people to make a perception check.
I want to be held down and used as meat by Eiger!
>>46894026
see, this is why I need a sit down talk on this, I have no idea if a pilot AI's drone blowing makes them recompile or just take dumpshock.
>>46894124
That's because illusions affect your mind you twit. Or are you saying that sleight of hand magic tricks are also resisted with Willpower?
>>46894273
He's trying to say you'd roll Perception passively against all the drones carrying holoprojectors, and that you wouldn't have to spend an action to Observe In Detail each one to tell it was fake.
>>46893892
Well if you're a digital entity, it should make sense that you're able to inhabit anything that has a data storage. Then you can use any kind of a connection to jump from one device to another, as long as you have admin rights to it. I'd say you need to beat a firewall to dive into a hostile drone, but other than that, you're free to play around as you please. Which would be probably the only good thing about this whole wireless retardation 5E has going.
You do need electricity to survive though, so the device would have to be powered for you to be able to function. Rig redundant power supplies to your primary disk.
>>46894026
>>46894233
I had to check it up myself, and I must admit it is unclear:
If the device the AI is running on gets "bricked", i.e. destroyed through Matrix damage, then the AI gets disrupted. Which can be really, really nasty.
However, there's no mention of what happens if the device gets damaged physically to the point of collapsing. I suppose a case could be make for both getting disrupted (drone is blasted to smithereens by rocket) or not (drone gets kneecapped with APDS, core is intact even if chassis is no longer functional).
>>46894507
well, fuck, that's extremely harsh.
Drones are already fragile as fuck, and now if one gets destroyed while you are in it you lose an essence.
I gotta rig up some kind of emergency escape system I think. This is going to require a lot of book scouring.
>>46894545
Keep in mind drones cannot take stun damage, so an anthrodrone with 18 armour is going to shrug off anything that isn't an Alpha loaded with APDS or greater.
Just a side note here, is there any sort of program/site you lot use to make AI characters, or do you make them just by hand? I don't think chummer5 works with AIs.I'm planning to make theloliAI I was talking about earlier.
>>46894598
Or a monofilament whip usingloli.
>>46894598
learning this game has been a challenge for me, but that does help.
>>46894545
>>46894598
Also keep in mind that drones count electrical
Stun damage as Physical damage, so tasers, stick & shock, and shock gloves can be a big problem for drones.
>>46894686
On that topic, what can be done in regards to electroproofing anthroform drones?
I feel like monowhips are underapprciated. If you can work around the F availability thing they seem super amazing for non-STR users such as infiltrators and even faces in a pinch.
>>46894724
Nonconductivity armour mods.
>>46894724
There's a NonConductivity modification for armor that gives extra dice against electrical damage.
So put some points of that in your drone's Armor Jacket.
>>46894737
The issue with monofil whips (any of the Exotic Weapons, really) is that you have to put skill points into something that's really, really specific.
Compare to Automatics on the other side of the spectrum. Automatics lets you use large weapons, concealable weapons, legal weapons, lethal attacks, nonlethal attacks, electrical attacks, and more just by swapping magazines or using another gun.
Your monowhip skill will only be able to do lethal damage and will always be illegal.
But yes, monowhips are terrifyingly effective weapons. Great base damage, incredible AP, solid Reach, and top-tier accuracy.
>>46894737
>If you can work around the F availability thing
That's not a problem in the least. F doesn't mean they're any harder to find, it just means that having the item is illegal. Which would be a problem if it was something visible and hard to hide, but a monofilament whip you can fit inside a finger compartment.
>>46894830
The whip is a niche weapon, true, but so are all melee weapons. Whichever you decide to use, you'll probably end up using that one exclusively. Barring cases like preferring swords but being forced to use knives due to the difficulty of hiding a sword on your person, of course.
But you'll always have access to a monofilament whip unless you're a retard. And if you really need to use nonlethal damage, use a nonlethal ranged weapon like a taser, or called shots.
>>46894598
wait, backtrack, how does the drone get 18 armor?
Does the drone armor STACK with wearable armor?
>>46894948
There's no real reason it shouldn't.
>>46895029
Except balance reasons. Stacking armour on a PC doesn't work either, because then you'd get people wearing chameleon suits (skintight and thin) and armour jackets for a total of 19 armour for a negligible amount of money.
Logically, it should. Balance-wise, fuck you.
>>46895055
And by 19 I mean 21. I can count, I swear.
>>46894948
Yes. For good or ill, anthroform drones can use meatbag equipment.
>>46895029
>>46895055
>>46895082
okay, does it actually solve this in any of the books rules wise, or is it entirely up to GMs?
Can anthroform drones even wear these things? If so, do they get armor from them? If so, does it stack like a human with armor augments might stack with it?
>>46895106
>or is it entirely up to GMs?
This part here.
>>46894931
>called shots.
I must be missing something here. I know there's a called shot to make nonlethal damage into lethal damage, but I don't think there's one that does the reverse. There's a lot of people here (myself included) that value nonlethality in our weapons.
Comparing it to other melee weapons is rational. If you count Unarmed as a melee weapon, you get more versatility - but Unarmed requires way more investment to be effective than the whip. I'll concede to your reasoning there. I guess the only real downside in that case is the cost compared to other melee options.
>>46895029
Same reason a regular runner can't wear an armor jacket over an armor vest for 21 armor. Only the highest applies.
>>46895055
>Stacking armour on a PC doesn't work either
Titanium Bone Lacing, Orthoskin 4, cyberlimbs with 2 points of Armor, good ole armored jacket and helmet: 3+4+2+12+2 = 23 armor (and 3 extra effective body against damage but that's strictly speaking not armor.)
All stacking, all available at chargen. And if you suck up to a mage, you can even add an armor spell to that.
>>46895121
goddamnit what is even the point of a game system if I can't make a character without a GM ruling
>>46895135
An AI Rigger is literally rolling together the most complicated parts (The Matrix and Drones) of a very poorly edited system.
Street Samurai, Adepts, Mages, and whatnot rarely have these kinds of problems.
>>46895124
Yes, but the meatbag does take stun damage, so your analogy is not valid.
If you look at the bonuses actual armours give you, take second skin for example, the armour value of the suit is diminished if you wear it under other kit. It's rated as 6/+2. Taking that as a point of comparison, a GM would be completely within his right to rule that drones get less points from their plating if they choose to wear armour.
>>46895170
well, my day project of making an AI character for later use is certainly proving more complicated than I thought it would be.
>>46895188
I think the simplest AI build is the allin AI face I brought up a few threads back.
Take Exceptional Entity and dump every Attribute point you have into Charisma. Proceed to take only Social skills (and a metric shitton of Contacts) and basically play a dnd haste-bard in combat with the Rally action of the Leadership skill.
>>46895175
>Yes, but the meatbag does take stun damage
Aye, and the drone treats electrical damage as physical damage, and can be affected by Matrix damage directly unlike meatbags(*). Equals, they ain't. Treating the base armor as implants with the the regular armor stacking the same as meatbags makes just as much sense.
(*) Technomancers don't count. Fuck those freaks.
>>46895188
AIs in general (All of the non-standard character concepts, really) are GM discretion. They kind of have to be. That said, they're allowed in a decent number of games regardless.
>>46895264
I wish I had at least a general set of assumptions I can go on so I know how on earth I stack my armor.
My armor stat is looking something like a goddamn decision tree right now, full of "if X then Y" statements and shit.
>>46895262
I'm not going to spend any more time arguing about this, because a GM could rule it either way, and either interpretation would be completely valid. Until it's errata'd, we'd just be screaming at each other. And after it's errata'd, rule 0 still applies.
>and can be affected by Matrix damage directly unlike meatbags(*).
In the case of an AI though, he could very well just go wireless off and be untouchable by the Matrix.
>>46895312
I mean it's going to be retarded no matter what you do really.
How suspicious are armored jackets compared to lined coats?
Is there any reason to use the lined coat?
>>46895327
yeah but I'd like to know if it's going to be retarded high, or retarded low, or actually just a happy medium.
>>46895356
Depends on where you're bound. In a corp-controlled area, the jacket will be more suspicious than the suit.
In the barrens, the suit will be more suspicious than the jacket.
>>46895356
The lined coat gives a -2 Concealability modifier to things under it. I assume the armor jacket just fills that loose space with armor.
There's also more expensive high-end jackets in Run & Gun that have equivalent armor and let you conceal stuff better.
Learn from the best, chummers. Bonsai charges don't work.
>>46895123
Called shots do have damage caps, so you can't do more than 3 boxes if you hit their foot or something. It wouldn't be a big houserule for a GM to make either.
>>46895387
>>46895388
okay well, assuming armor DOESN'T stack, I can have a good 12 armor on a drone body. 14 with a helmet.
Not enough to street sam, but might be a good auxilary combatant? yes? no?
>>46895326
>In the case of an AI though, he could very well just go wireless off and be untouchable by the Matrix.
Yeah, but so can a meatbag runner. My point is, unless technomancer or decker, worst can happen is some gear getting non-functional. An AI getting its device bricked from under its ass, or (even worse) targeted directly by Matrix damage... ouch!
>>46895428
>yes? no?
No. Especially for a drone treating electric damage with its nice -5 ap as physical damage.
>>46895459
not even if I stock up the jacket with electric insulation?
Shit, I need to continue working on armor solutions.
>>46895428
Don't forget to check the mods available to drones in Rigger 5.0
There is a mod there for adding more armor to your drones, and it can be stacked quite high.
>>46895390
>unless they are part of a well-thought-out strategy
Isn't "hide around the corner while the cyberpsycho tears the opposition to shreds" a well-thought-out strategy?
>>46895414
Those called shots will still be Physical damage, though. Sure, you're damaging them without killing them, but you're not nonlethally knocking them out out of the fight that way. Unless you go for the genitals, I suppose.
But that makes you "that guy who always whips people's balls off." Not every runner wants to be on a team with that guy,
>>46895428
You can do a bit better with the stuff from Run & Gun. Forearm Guards for a +1, and replace the armor jacket with a set of the tailored stacking Berwick suit + coat that gives 13 armor.
And since drone arms and drone legs work like cyberlimbs, I'm pretty sure you get to stack any extra limb armor with clothes armor. You just don't get to stack the base armor of the drone.
But that's just my interpretation. YMMV.
>>46895443
My point is that the player would be playing an AI inside the drone, and thus can eliminate one very clear weakness that's usually present on drones, and by so doing upsets the balance that's established with riggers in mind.
You could rule that armour stacking is okay for drones that's used by riggers, since they risk bricking if they're hooked in, or choose to pull the plug and have to fall back on pilot programs. An AI inside a drone does not have that weakness, since he can simply go offline and only lose minor bonuses.
The point here is that you can't apply those rules directly to a fringe case like this, you'll have to figure out whether the player would be overpowered when compared to other PCs and make the decision based on that. I don't know how AIs play well enough to make that call, which is why all that I'm saying is "what GM says, goes".
>>46895527
I feel like an AI has less advantage than a rigger in this situation, because if an AI's drone gets killed it permanently loses three stats.
Wheras if a rigger's drone is killed, he just takes dumpshock.
>>46895487
>Isn't "hide around the corner while the cyberpsycho tears the opposition to shreds" a well-thought-out strategy?Google 'bonsai'.
>>46895487
>>46895486
oh, no, I'm reading rigger 5 right now and it says cyberarms do not stack with drone armor.
Which is bullcrap, but whatever.
>>46895487
>And since drone arms and drone legs work like cyberlimbs, I'm pretty sure you get to stack any extra limb armor with clothes armor.
Explicitely forbidden. Armor on limbs has no effect for drones. If you want more base armor; Armor Mods is the way to go. (Rigger 5.0 pg. 125)
>>46895459
That's not a huge concern if your GM isn't a cunt who throws shitloads of tasers at you. If the opponents treat anon's droneguy as they would a normal human, they'd be shooting at him instead of trying to get close enough to tase. By wearing an armour jacket and a ballistic mask, he'd be virtually indistinguishable from a meatbag when observed from afar.
>>46895542
You are comparing apples to oranges, stop it.
>>46895557
>>46895567
Fug. This is why I normally don't chime in when drones come up.
>>46895547
Goddammit, CGL. That's almost as bad as "Fancy Derek."I don't feel bad about missing that, myself. It's late.
>>46895557
Pretty sure we're looking at two different mods.
On page 123 you can see a mod that changes your drones base armor.
>>46895613
>P123
>armor above 12 is forbidden
>P142
>drone with 18 armor is not forbidden
what in the fuck am I even
How does a drone even go for as to like
>>46895572
Tasers are part of regular cops and security's arsenal. But even then, 14 armor isn't enough. Aim for around 20. That's the point where the opposition will need really big guns or specialist ammo/called shots to really hurt you.
>>46895653
Same reason the Ingram Smartgun (R avail) has a built-in suppressor (which is F as a mod).
Some aftermarket mods are illegal despite being available legally when pre-installed on certain products.
>>46895653
So? Silencer is forbidden, Ingram Smartgun is not. You really don't see difference between modification and built-in features?
>>46895675
>>46895685
>suppressors are F rated
I never even saw that before since it's retarded as fuck. Why would they be forbidden? I don't even.
>>46895685
>>46895675
sorry I'm cutting my shadowrun teeth on a character that is significantly harder to make than I thought.
Though, from heavy reading, all anthroform drones have less armor than almost all other kind of drones. This indicates to me that they prooobably are meant to stack with at least armored clothing?
With the exception of the juggernaut, I guess.
>>46895598
Dude, you're just shitposting at this point. Do what you said in your post above and just shut up until you've actually gotten around to play/use AIs in your games.
>>46895698
Knee-jerk legal pushback because politicians assume they work like they do in movies.
Same reason suppressors are really obnoxious to get in the U.S. today (and outright banned for civilians in some states).
>>46895730
Well, with subsonic rounds it works almost like in movies.
>>46895722
Well how the fuck am I then going to point out that you're just going in circles like a retard?
There are no rules for AIs in anthro drones. You can't compare them directly to either riggers or meatbags, because they aren't the same thing.
GM decides. Good? Now fuck off.
>>46895730
I know, I lurk /k/, and I have a can. But they're legal in some (most?) clapistanian states with a tax stamp, which is more or less the same thing as them being R rated.
I'd overrule that F rating so fast.
How effective would a Gundam-style giant mech be?
>>46895760
Which are also (F) in Shadowrun.
I think I am going to spend the rest of the night drinking instead of making this frustrating AI.
I will start over with a more simple character tomorrow, and then try AI again another day.
Hey guys I have a question about the animal bond thing Awakened can do. My group has a mystic adept with a pet bound to him, and believes that when he casts Invisibility on himself it also affects it. That's bullshit right? Is there something in the rulebooks that says that it's bullshit? The guy is kind of a rules lawyer and has been really obstinate about this working how he wants.
>>46895824
>Animal bond
Wut?
>>46895779
Aww, is the poor little babby butthurt because people don't follow his interpretation? Shitpost harder, faggot.
>>46895862
Attune Animal. That's what I meant.
>>46895871
No, just slightly upset that you'd accuse me of shitposting when it's you flinging shit around.
>>46895730
>Knee-jerk legal pushback because politicians assume they work like they do in movies.
SR is movie verisimilitude. The average person won't reliably get 2+ hits with penalties for silencer, distraction, etc.
>>46895895
Stay mad. ;)
>>46895880
It doesn't work that way. He can imbue his bond animal(s) with adept powers through another ritual, but the only advantage he gets from Animal Attunement is the sense link (i.e. ability to percieve what the critter hears/sees/smells...)
>>46895949
>>46896000
Could you two idiots take it outside?
>>46896006
Thanks boss. That's what I thought, and I'm gonna bring it up before the next game. Seems like it would be a bad thing anyways, since if the animal counts as you for Invisibility it should also count as you for shit like Control Thoughts or Slay (blank) spells.
>>46895949
There's a lot of GM discretion involved to the point where basically, if your GM is treating the suppressor like it's movie-effective, it will be, and if your GM is being more realistic about it, it'll be more realistic.
What are some of your essential tips and techniques for GMing shadowrun?
>>46896160
Improvisation. That is all.
>>46894624
You're not being very cash money, anon.
>>46896006
>Could you two idiots take it outside?
No, u. Just got here.
>>46896060
Not really. At all, I'd say.
>Threshold 2: Street sign, pedestrian, conversation, silenced gunfire
Average corpsec grunt is Int 3, Per 2.
Silencer is -4. That means threshold 1 is possible, and crit glitching is also possible.
Unless it's in the immediate vicinity, that's -2. Distractions are another -2. Etc. They have to be actively listening for the unexpected silenced gunfire to get a bonus.
>>46896160
Be ready to improvise.
Shadowrun encourages it's players to think outside the box, which may lead to rather unorthodox plans.
>>46896160
- Be ready to adapt your plans on the go. There will be a lot of moments where you'll want to bludgeon your players for missing the obvious and others where they go on a completely unrelated tangent or do something completely unexpected.
- Be ready to make a lot of on-the-spot decisions and rulings. Don't stop the gameplay to check rules constantly. Do note down what you did, check it up after the session, amend for next time if necessary.
Here's a little challenge for the /srg/, to gauge how much drama we have in the thread compared to actual roleplaying and willingness to explore different character concepts.
Can you come up with a character concept for a loli street samurai that is not in some way magical-realmy, frivolous, gimmicky, "cute" or in other ways contrary to the normal tone of Shadowrun? Simply a character concept like any other one, where the character has a logical reason to be a street sammy, doesn't immediately burden members of her team and doesn't have to rely on her being a little girl to define her or stand out. Simply a nonsexualized, non-"cute" street samurai who happens to be a little girl.
Both sides are being spergs at the moment, but the clincher is if this thread still has the ability to come up with proper character concepts and roleplaying ideas even when faced with something that triggers it.
If you like lolis, try to make a serious loli street samurai character - and if you don't, try to make one too so you can show everyone else how it should be done.
I'm honestly not trying to stir shit, I'm just interested in knowing if /srg/ can do anything with a difficult character concept instead of getting bogged down in drama again.
>>46896275
Sorry, that was meant for the troll and the one feeding him.
>>46896303
a gnome with appropriate street sam skills and ware for the same reasons as the standard street sam.
That was easy!
>>46896303
Crazy cyberdoc wanted to create the perfect assassin and turned a kid in a killing machine with synthetic limbs and skillsofts for what the kid didn't know. His reasoning was: "Who'd suspect a kid anyway?"
The idea didn't work out so well, mainly due to it backfiring the moment a MAD scanner entered the equation. The whole operation was 'sanitized' by a bunch of shadowrunners, but they thought recruiting the doc and his assassin would be a good idea rather than shooting them there and then. Now the kid needs to get nuyen for either a steady supply of growth suppressants or getting their cyberlimbs adapted as their body outgrows the chrome.
>>46896303
GitS style "PC wouldn't have survived whatever event without extensive cyber replacements".
May or may not have an obvious cyber body.
>>46895718
bumb
I would be interessted in this, too.
>>46896303
They're a street punk.
You know, an actual street punk.
A criminal youth of below the age of majority who is interested in anti-establishment ideals.
>>46896303
up-and-coming street ganger gets struck with neoteny SURGE and runs with the 'cute' angle.
>>46896303
Juvieganger.
>>46896472
I feel like people underestimate how feral and hungry kids can go.
>>46896443
>>46896472
Good idea, but it begs the question where they'd gotten the chrome/weapons from.
>>46896500
They descended upon people with actually good cyberwear en masse with primitive weapons and a dark hunger.
The strongest members of the pack then claim the valuables, including occasional bodies to be bartered and traded with cyberdocs and organ grinders.
>>46896500
A consistent feature of my games is that gunfights in bad areas have scavengers of all stripes descend on them.
>>46896500
Sponsored by a chromergang?
>>46896516
>>46896549
>>46896556
I now have a very disturbing vision of a Frankenstein-esque abomination of a child outfitted with adult-size chrome.
>>46896656
There's a reason used parts cost more essence.
>>46896656
They'll grow into it
>>46896656
Then play that concept for all it's worth, without letting the fact that the character happens to be a child cut you off from an interesting character with a memorable design and a lot of roleplaying and characterization hooks. The worst thing about the loli shitters is that they, ironically just like the anti-loli shitters, get people to shrink away from child concepts because they draw a line between them and game-disrupting chaotic-randumb "cute" oversexualized animu garbage.
It's hard to play a child character seriously while being both useful and not annoying, but it's a crying shame to let a bunch of mongs cut off a huge amount of character concepts because they have to regurgitate tired /jp/ memes to get their jollies.
>>46895809
.45 ACP is subsonic.
Are non-social infiltrators pretty much required to wear the camo suit, or will lacking the bonuses not actively screw me over that much?
>>46897779
Depends on what your physical limit and your sneaking dicepool are, senpai
I've heard people mention the Dryad being overpowered before, is that a specific build kind of thing, or just anything that touches it ends up better than it should be?
>>46897779
Not really. Good legwork dredging up a floor plan, the location of security systems and the guard's schedules, etc...; and planning around these nuisance will make turning 'invisible' Predator-like useless in the best of cases (*). Get a couple of reliable chummers watching your back first of all, omae.
(*) do note that this rarely happens, so get the Ruthenium Polymer Cloak as well to give you an edge whenever the fecal matter makes contact with the spinning air circulation system.
>>46897840
Dryads give up a point of maximum Strength (which doesn't impact the average elf very much) and gain a fairly mild drawback in exchange for the Glamour trait, which only further augments their elven social abilities. Dryads are pretty much just a straight upgrade for quite a few elf builds, ie, all those that involve facing or face-like activities.
Also, they're super magically pretty so they're pretty much the go to for special snowflakes.
>>46897840
Dryad is a social monster with her stats and qualities. But I think Synthesis can make her anything from an extremely limited face to a total cripple. It's like background count, but more severe and applies for everything. Probably better off as a contact than PC.
>>46897865
I wish for invisibility, but hate skin tight wimp suits and would like more armor.
I should dredge up the cost of adding ruthenium to armors.
>>46897866
>>46897889
okay, dryads are social pretty elf plants.
What do I look into if I want to play groot?
>>46897915
They aren't plants. They have basically no relation to plants. Or wildlife in general.
I don't know much about Groot but from what I've seen on my google search, try starting with a troll or ork and then making it a changeling with the bark skin dermal alteration. Which can be found in Run Faster.
>>46897915
SURGE'd Troll to start with, Dermal Alteration: Bark and Photometabolism qualities; and keep going from there.
>>46897941
>Dryads have basically no relation to plants
Goddamnit shadowrun naming conventions, you had one job
>>46897910
You can add Ruthenium Polymer as an armour mod. See Run & Gun. Do note that you should treat any weapon bigger than a pistol with it as well. Floating assault rifles tend to attract attention for some reason.
You can also get a cloak to wrap around the whole of your gear in Hard Targets. Cheaper but less efficient than the armour+weapon mod.
>>46897910
Unfortunately, adding ruthenium is prohibitively unavailable at 16F. That being said, the Sleeping Tiger suit (R&G 61) comes with it, and a terrific armor rating to boot. (Why it's not harder to get, who knows...)
>>46898107
>Recommending the Sleeping Tiger
>To anyone
C'mon, chummer
>>46898120
Hey, it's an attempt against fashion and good taste, but it's efficient at keeping your sorry hide intact.
