What makes for a good megadungeon?
What makes for a bad one?
>What makes for a good megadungeon?
The setting's justification for it's existence.
The layout and contents being internally consistent with that reason.
>What makes for a bad one?
Rooms and passageways that aren't reasonably sized for combat.
>>46815265
>megadungeon
>setting
Anon, the megadungeon IS the setting.
>>46815345
You have to justify your setting in non-megadungeon campaigns.
You have to justify your settings in campaigns in general.
You have to justify your setting/megadungeon in megadungeon campaigns.
>>46815194
A good megadungeon isn't just one huge monotonous maze. It's more a set of smaller linked dungeons, so you have 'themed' areas with links to each other.
>>46815671
I like this answer, a mega dungeon could be bigger than a city, so there should be all kinds of different things going on. There should be a balance between lots of similar elements that build a general mood but also interesting areas that dont fit in, in such an obvious "yet another dark room with a few sinister things scattered on the floor"
>>46815671
Like the Mario games?
>>46815671
Like, Etrian Odyssey?
>>46815671
Like, Bloodborne and Castlevania?
>>46815671
Like bloons tower defense?
>>46815194
What did you use to generate this horror?
>>46815757
>>46815800
>>46815838
>>46815884
Are any of those RPGs?
Because I can add Tetris to this.
>>46815194
Not hurting my eyes when I look at it would be nice.
>>46815345
Warning! This game is not as advertised! I was expecting a world that was one big dungeon and it turned out ot be some game involving relationships and stuff!
>>46815986
donjon IIRC
>>46815194
off the top of my head, some sort of ruined city in a dangerous area with many various dangerous inhabitants (who each hold various sections)
from video games, some good examples would be: black mesa, rapture, the ishimura
>>46816889
oh, forgot to say, for D&D I'd do an underdark city that has fallen, but is still full of dangerous inhabitants
>>46815999
Etrian Odyssey is basically Wizardry, complete with the manual cartography subgame, with Diablo II's character customization game added on top of it. So yes, it is an RPG and yes, barring the 4th game it does take place in a single megadungeon.
The Mario games are not RPGs and do not take place in megadungeons, although they do have themed areas.
Bloodborne and Castlevania both have RPG elements, both have themed sub-worlds, and the latter at least takes place in a big megadungeon.
Bloons Tower Defense is the obligatory shitpost answer.
>>46815194
>>46815671
See, the analogy I would use would be roguelike dungeon branches. Each different branch has different sorts of traps and enemies, different level generation algorithms, and different loot. In NetHack, many dungeon branches have at least one two things guaranteed in them: for example, you're guaranteed access to at least one altar halfway through the Gnomish Mines, and a luckstone at the end. You're guaranteed either bag of holding or an amulet of reflection at the end of Sokoban. This means that the player is encouraged to assess risks based on what resources they have versus what they would like to get: "How well-prepared am I for the mines? I don't have any candles, but I do have a few scrolls of light, so I can only handle maybe one or two dark levels. But I think I might want a luckstone badly enough that I'll take the chance."
Whatever you do, remember to integrate the dungeon branches organically. As you approach the lava world, the air should gradually get hotter and drier, the walls of the caverns should transition to igneous rock, and even the layout of the maze should suggest volcanic activity. Research some geology if you have to -- just make sure you have no abrupt changes in dungeon climate.
A good vidya case study of megadungeon design is Super Metroid. Seriously, that game's map is a work of art. The way the biomes transition into one another is A E S T H I C.
>>46816138
Top kek
>>46815460
"A wizard did it."
>>46820027 A fine answer, but too short; for what purpose?
>>46821052
To annoy people who ask too many questions.
>>46821052
You can go the Undermountain route, where the wizard did it because he's crazy.
Justification? Well, if the party starts in the dungeon, no justification needed. Personally, I like the "giant prison" idea. No guards, just factions fighting each other, holding grudges, looking for advantages against eachother.
>>46821052
He placed magical eyes all over the dungeon and streams the adventurers' misfortune to crystal balls all over the country.
His wizard buddies are betting on who's going to die first.
The dungeon is structured to be entertaining for the viewers, but may seem nonsensical to the adventurers.
>>46815265
>The setting's justification for it's existence.The layout and contents being internally consistent with that reason.
The current civilization is built upon layers upon layers buried cities, dwarven holds, fey barrows, wurm tunnels, crypts from a dead civilization obsessed with burials, mines, and byways designed by underdark creatures and deeper, darker things from the Lower Planes, which are literally directly below the material plane and can be reached on foot. Some horrific curse causes cyclical civilization failure, or so the superstition goes, and thus surface-dwellers huddle terrified in their strongholds while a vast ecosystem dwells below.
>the whole world is a dungeon
>>46821052
A dying and demented wizard is kidnapping aspiring adventurers and forcing them to navigate out of an ever-changing megadungeon in the heart of a towering mountain. Those who find the exit have proven themselves to be worthy of the Wizard's knowledge after he passes
>>46815194
http://pastebin.com/8w78c4bS
If the bin doesn't work, tell me.
>>46821052
>I swore i left my construction golem here
>oh well i'll make 5000 more and just leave them to work
>>46815800
This, holy fuck, this.
You also may want to give the party a reason why they want to stay their and not go onto something else?
Eye of the Beholder, Ultima Underground 1 and 2, and Stone Keep have reasons why the party can't leave the dungeon so easily.
>>46821213
>I like the "giant prison" idea. No guards, just factions fighting each other, holding grudges, looking for advantages against eachother.
The first campaign I ever played in was this, goddamn it was so much fun.
>>46815671
So like the setting of BLAME! then?
>>46821638
>the whole world is a dungeon
Elemental Plane of Dungeon
>>46815194
>What makes for a good megadungeon?
An actual purpose.
>What makes for a bad one?
Rooms for the sake of having more rooms, nonsensical encounters lacking in any sense of uniformity in a vain attempt at "variety."
While it might not be a true "mega dungeon" I did make one that took four 4-6 hour sessions to complete. What I learned.
>have a good reason for the party to be there
>have an overarching theme
>have subthemes, each wing or area should feel distinct and memorable
>have a mystery to the dungeon, let the PCs discover something along the way
>no generic fights, all fights should be unique, require different strategies and fit both the overall theme and subtheme - if they won't remember that fight at the end of the session, it's a poorly designed fight
>big rooms for fights, bigger than that, unless there's a reason to be small, make them big
>have a reason for rooms to exist, each room should have a clear purpose in the overall dungeon
>each room and corridor needs personality, something about it that makes it different from every other room or corridor
>choices, have doors that go different directions and these doors be different, as small as choices may be, they're fun for players
>never underestimate non-combat challenges like traps, dangerous terrain, riddles, puzzles
>combine these with combat challenges once in a while
I also made a smaller dungeon - 2 sessions - that had a time limit, now that was fun, but I don't think you can put a time pressure on anything longer than a few sessions.
>>46826230
Kek
>>46821052
>for what purpose?
He's a wizard. He does it because he can.
>>46826230
Does that mean Dungeon is an element?
Can you have a Dungeon-breathing Dragon?
>>46827391
>Can you have a Dungeon-breathing Dragon?
We need to make this.
>>46821251
So, Cabin in the Woods?
>>46815194
I think the likes of Castlevania is a good source of inspiration. Lots of different areas to keep things fresh, but also places where the loop back in on each other so things feel connected.
In addition, you'll definitely want NPCs the party won't be murdering. The place should have a good population of peopelf for social stuff, since otherwise its just a slog through monsters.
>>46826099
have you heard of avernum? you and your party get tossed underground in to pretty much a criminal run society australia. if you haven't of its a crpg thats extremely fa/tg/uy friendly.
>>46827421
Seems easy enough; the breath attack requires a Will saving throw or else the target suffers a Maze effect. Then give the dragons funky frills that superficially resembles the one rocked by Her Serenity.
Bam.
>>46817477
Something like this, right?
>>46828536
the ones i named are ones I'm familiar with. but the basic jist is that you have to have a reason why the party can't just say " let's go fuck around in derp-a-herp dungeon for the rest of the game."
pic unrelated.
>>46828750
>"derp-a-herp dungeon"
I mean kingdom.
Underground 1 is also somethign like that except its more like " you where in my fucking daughters room, she's gone, go find her in the DEATH MAULING DUNGEON OF DOOM AND SHIT! "
>>46815265
>The setting's justification for it's existence.
Disagree. Or, rather, it depends on how much the rest of the setting cares. If you're playing in the kind of world where Hovelton is situated at the mouth of the Gnarlt River because the yearly floods make for fertile soil and the river facilitates trade with the nearby city of Farlings, then yeah, a megadungeon would be breaking immersion. There's no logical reason for it to be there.
On the other hand, if you're playing in the kind of world where Redgrave's Fast is situated on the top of Mount Doom because that's where The Rivener's gauntlet struck the earth when he was slain by the Mad Wizard Gurinok before his disappearance, then it probably doesn't break anybody's immersion--in fact, I doubt anyone (in-setting or out of it) bats an eye.
What I'm trying to say is that there are plenty of settings where shit just *is*, and where the setting itself is genre-savvy enough to just roll with it. That's where Megadungeons belong. In that kind of '80s-feeling FANTASY in all caps with some kind of serif font. And, in a setting like that, the only justification necessary is that there's fucking treasure in it but--watch out!--it was claimed long ago by the Red Drake Kuranos. Does he still draw breath within it? Go fucking wade through ten session's worth of traps to find out!
>>46821052
he wanted to contain a monster, and spent his entire life creating the mega dungeon and stocking it with monsters to keep the super monster from getting out.little did he know he is just making the super monster stronger
![Scary_door_3[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/m0uWE8F.jpg "Scary_door_3[1].jpg")
>>46830634Turns out its adventurers.
>>46830735
>>46830743
Just accept it, titan.
>>46815194
There's a level in Ratchet and Clank 3, a ps2 puzzle platformer, that i think is relevant to this thread.
It's an optional sewer level, it's enormous, and iirc there's only one thing to do in there, which is killing slime monsters for crystals which you can sell. It's an almost endless maze of tubes, and the player is equipped with an item which allows them to walk on certain surfaces as though whatever angle you're placed, the floor is down, gravity follows you. I remember losing my bearings constantly, the combination of identical rooms, semi irrelevant gravity, and a vague map made finding my way through the sewers incredibly difficult.
I have fond memories of spending hours at a time wandering that maze, the atmospere was incredible.
Occasionally I'd run into a huge slime monster, and it was terrifying. The monsters weren't that threatening, but i was so immersed in this dank, toxic maze, that it scared me.
I was around 10 at the time, so the memories are tainted by nostslgia. I don't know if this is helpful, but whatever. It seemed it might be.
>>46828607
Kinda. You write out descriptions like that and then design the dungeon around them.
>>46815460
Nope.
>>46815194
What are some possible reasons this dungeon in particular was built?
>>46833164
MegaDunge Planet is a collection of 5th dimensional thought experiments projected into 3 dimensions and then abandoned, civilizations rise and fall within it like moss on a ruined temple.
>>46833417
I'm going to use this, except I'm teleporting them in, each party into a different room, and not telling them how it works.
Question: with the switches it says you access the last tesseract by "switching over twice". Can you choose which tesseract you're switching over to, or does just switching twice get you there?
And do each of the tesseracts accessed by switching lead only to the "original" tesseract and the one reached through double switching, or can they lead to eachother? Like, say you start in Room A in Tesseract 1 (Room A.1), and it's switch leads to A.2, which can access A.9. Does the switch in B.1 lead to Tesseract 3, so B.3, which leads to B.9? If so, where does the switch in B.2 go?
Or is it that every switch in the non-original or 9 tesseracts lead only to the corresponding room in 1 and 9, and then 9 leads back in a mirror of the correspondence in 1, making 1 and 9 the "hub tesseracts"? I'll probably go with that.
...also, what happens if you head 3 rooms over? Same as 1 room over? Like, 1 over from A is B, 2 over is Special 8th Room, 4 over is A again, what's 3?
>>46815194
>What makes for a good megadungeon?
Variety and consistency.
Variety gameplay wise and consistency setting/story wise.
>What makes for a bad one?
A non-variable and consistent one I guess?
>>46831446
good times, they have a place similar in number 2, but its a desert with crazy arthropods and shit
>>46815757
>>46815800
>>46815838
>>46815884
Like Super Metroid.
>>46838943
That desert wasn't really a maze, tho. Just really big. Had fun exploring it, and honestly now that i look back that was a really fun game, might pop it in muh ps2 and give it a play when I can.
For me, a megadungeon is unique in its host of characters encountered in a dungeon, and the overall flow of it. I have a blast creating random adventurers, merchants, and people in the dungeon, and explaining why they are there.
One of the group's favorites is a lizardman merchant, situated right at the entrance of the dungeon. He acts as a quick way to offload loot or pick up supplies instead of trekking all the way back to town, and acts as an innkeeper as well, for a price. However, its pretty clear that he's a scummy individual who loots dead bodies of adventurers, after he tried selling the party a scorched backpack of a former comrade.
I always include a map for my players,it only has a 33% chance of being right. that way there is enough of a chance for it being right that they can't ignore it, but too large a chance to really trust it. and it only has traps 50% of the time if it's correct, if its not then it has an 25% chance of having the wrong traps marked.
