Hey guys,
my group wants to check out 4e (for mechanical reasons). We don't necessarily want to stick with it, but we're setting up a oneshot or a few sessions to get a good feel for the system.
I always saw stuff about using only monsters from MM3 and up and that some classes also got fixed.
What should we actually use? Is there any premade adventure with good fights? Which uses the fixed math?
Any help would be pretty dope
MM3+ stuff is preferred but not absolutely necessary. The game is tight enough that it works out of the box with minimal adjustements (cue 10 people telling you that it's not true).
Premade adventures for 4e are generally sucky, but there used to be an introductory Red Box with a decent one and pregens too.
Go here and download the character builder
https://rogue-elements.obsidianportal.com/wikis/offline-character-builder
Threaten any player that loses their sheet that you'll just give them a randomly generated sheet if they don't bring theirs.
>>46499380
What's the MM3 stuff then in particular (well, except for MM3, obviously)?
And there's really no at least servicable adventure? What a shame
>>46499570
Will do, thanks
>>46501075
If it's mechanics you want, grab a copy of Dungeon Delve.
30 mini-adventures, one for each level, consisting of three encounters each, with a bit of plot thrown in for flavor.
Not sure whether it's pre-MM3, but even if it is, it provides enough snapshots of the game in different stages for you to see what works and what doesn't.
>>46501281
Ohhh, that sounds amazing actually.
What would you reckon is the best level to start at? Do we need to check out level 1? Or is around 5 the best?
>>46498712
Just making a comment,
>Poppori anything that isn't Priest
Scrub detected.
>>46499570
Well damn, the download link for the character builder is broken. Is there any collection for it like with 3.PF/5e?
>>46501679
This is actually a thing? I thought someone just shopped grafics cat over some MMO-dude
>>46501838
It is a shopped cat head, but that race has a bunch of animal heads, they're midget fat furries.
>>46501871
>furries
don't you be talking shit about my popori, nigga
>>46502003I love Poppori, mang. I have a Priest who is one, they're adorable.
A ton of them are furries, though.
>>46501075
The thing is this: when 4e came out, monster stats were not perfectly tuned, and in general monsters had a bit too many HPs and defenses and dealt a bit too little damage. This often led to long combat, that is one of the most common complaints about 4e.
Over the course of the game, this aspect was gradually improved, with feats on the player side (it's a common houserule to give every character a bonus "weapon expertise" feat, that is a straight bonus to hit), and on the monster side with fixing the damage calculations. Monster manual 3 and the two Monster Vault books use these "fixed" formulas and thus play better.
I'll add two cents to this though: the first is that the math fixes are not THAT big. You can run older monsters as is, some might drag a bit longer but it's not like it's unplayable. If needed, a common hotfix is to reduce monster HP by 20% and add a couple of points of damage; see pic related for a quick stat reference. The second thing is that, if math fixes are important, the REAL improvement over the course of the Monster Manuals was in the interactivity of the critters. A lot of the older ones are just big sacks of HPs with several attacks and nothing else going on; the new ones tend to have more tricks at their disposal.
I'll post something later about modules.
>>46501871
Well, I also found this, so I just thought someone had wanted to play grafics cat (which I will do, when one of my characters dies)
>>46502296
Nice, thanks. Could you also comment on the best starting level to get a good feel for the system?
>>46501494
If you mainly want to test it, start at 2 (first Utility power) to get a feel for things, then play the adventures for 6, 16 and 26 to see what the different tiers are about.
Alright, modules.
The first batch of 4e modules covers the whole 1-30 range but it's not particularly good - basically it's a series of dungeons with very little to do except fight fight fight. OTOH, the good news is that the first one of the series, H1 Keep on the Shadowfell, is available for free (it's still up on Drivethrurpg). It's levels 1-3 with pregens, but be aware that it's just a long, and hard, dungeon crawl.
Later products were better. There is a decent module in the Red Box as I said earlier (nothing special, just a bunch of rooms with some cool things inside) - I ran this three or four times with new players, it's short and gives a passable showcase of the game. HS1 the Slaying Stone is another good module for low-level characters; then there's the Dungeon Delve thing that some mentioned earlier.
If the "published" adventures are generally lackluster, though, keep in mind that there's a ton of stuff out there; I think something like 50 Dungeon magazines came out (with 3-6 adventures each), and almost ALL the stuff they released for the store programs is available for free on livingforgottenrealms.com. Don't ask me to point out anything in particular though, there's hundreds of modules.
Re: starting level - I'd start at level 1, since even new characters have a lot of things going on for them; you can easilly go up to 2 or 3 withouth much difference if you don't like starting at the beginning.
>>46502342
Level 1 works fine, 2 is better because at level 2 every character has a utility power. 6, 16, and 26 are all good, thanks to being the actual midpoints of the three tiers.
16 is my personal favourite, there are a lot of fun paragon path abilities that you get at level 16
>>46502810
>>46502759
>>46502547
Thanks guys, this really helps.
In the later adventures, are there fights with gimmicks? Like usable objects or alternative win conditions?
>>46502985
Ideally, they're in every adventure.
Not that any of the books really dwell on that.
>>46502985
Later pre-made 4e adventures tend to have good combat areas. hiding places for stealth, difficult terrain, movable objects like crates or big rocks, and plenty of means of breaking line of sight.
4e is a tactical RPG after all, and a tactical RPG is shit without interesting places to fight
>>46498712
Might be able to get you a working install of the 4e char builder, if you're interested. Not sure what I could host it on though.
>>46498712
The Madness at Gardmore Abbey is one of the all time great D&D modules. I'd suggest it.
>>46503739
Seconding, even though it might be too high-level for OP (it's 8th or so IIRC).
