>Malcador wanted the primarchs to be female
>Big Daddy E thought it was a joke
Let's be honest, lads, the mother complexes that would have caused in the Space Marines would have undone the universe
>>46496806
PS: Malcador knew this and was actually the real Emperor in disguise, Big E was just there for public appearances
>>46496812
Either that or Malcador made the Emperor up and the corpse sitting on the golden throne is actually Malcador's
>>46496806
But we would have gotten pic related if Malc had his way.
>>46496806
Female primarchs would be the closest human beings to the Emperor in power and they would be girls. He could fall for one of them eventually.
>In truth, I have yet to learn to blame Horus. Until I see him again changed by the powers that consumed him, I might not be able to. But I do blame Magnus, of all of them he should have known better.
>We had so many hopes for Magnus. So many hopes indeed.
-The Sigillite audiobook
What does he mean by this?
>>46497824
That black library is bad and should not be read/listened to by any self respecting fan.
>>46497800
The Emperor was beyond any desire for sex or physical affection
>>46497842
Ah piss off and/or get over it.
>>46496806
>women primarchs
no great crusade because >reading maps and >women driving
>>46497857
Not according to the Sensei/Star Child fluff.
That fluff says that though the Emperor was near godlike he was still a man with manly desires. He has fathered many children across the ages.
>>46497712
HERESY
EXTERMINATUS ON THIS THREAD
>>46497857
Wrong.
In the best Horus heresy book, the mother of one of the characters has been explicitly shacked by big E.
He only fucks the best of the best, but he still does it.
>>46497867
also blood angels get le red thirst every month lmao
>>46497878
>>46497904
Did the emperor fuck bitched, or did he actually engage in meaningful and fulfilling relationships?
It's kind of hard to imagine the second, I don't see how he can convince any woman to see him as a man rather than GOD EMPEROR.
>>46497904
>In the best Horus heresy book, the mother of one of the characters has been explicitly shacked by big E.
Name the book and give proper citation.
>>46497766
Twins and venus best waifus, everyone else a shit.
>>46497929
His real form is a godless brown man.
Also he is a deadbet dad who left the women he impregnated behind.
Unlike the white Catholic Pious who, despite being immortal, never left behind family he created.GW is racist
>>46497947
Angela best waifu.
>can't do missionary
>have to do it doggystyle
>"accidentally" pick wrong hole
>Primarch has to roll for anal circumference
>>46497984
Those wings are tiny, I'm sure she can handle missionary.
>>46497824
Magnus is the most relatable to him of all the primarchs, and they've probably chatted mind-to-mind. He knows all the great things a psyker of Magnus's power can do for humanity, and they'll never come to pass.
Also, being the psyker that was going to power the golden throne, Magnus was going to be a big part of saving the human race
And, lastly, Magnus was intelligent as fuck, so he should have listened to the Emperor - it's specifically this, thinking he knows better, that is his flaw (and his own sons also have it) and it's just so damn unnecessary - Magnus doesn't have the butcher's nails, visions, paranioa, or much of a grudge (okay, he's a bit pissed by Nikea, but he's still mostly loyal)
>>46497997Dammit.Here goes my dream.
>>46497857
He was a complicated person and didn't consider any person worth of his affection, only humanity as the whole.
Firstly, the Emperor is a huge normalfag. Conquering the Milky Way for regular humans with superhuman soldiers as mere tools was his big shtick. He would never consider homosexual relationships. Secondly, he had huge boner for power and prowess. Female primarch would be the first person to combine his biggest fetishes.I think that's what Malcador was trying to do, to force his emperor to settle down
>>46498047
Malcador is that awesome friend trying to improve your situation from the shadows.
Big E deserved him.
>>46497857
He probably fucked more women to death than Djingis Khan
>>46497929
>Before the Imperium was established and long before he was confined to his life-support throne, the Emperor lived in hiding among ordinary Men. During his life he fathered many families, while always taking care to vanish and start afresh whenever possible.
>>46498598
Reminds me a really weird movie that my brother showed me, in which a teacher moves out, and slowly starts explaining that he's immortal and cannot die.
I can't remember the title, which is a shame, it was a fun movie.
>>46498598
he probably fathered half of detroit
>>46498598
Weren't the Sensei retconned?
>>46498650
Nothing is ever truly retconned
>>46496806
>women
>power
These things dont mix anon
>>46498682
The C'Tan leading the Necrons were, and HARD.
>>46498706
I though they still did but it went something like
The necron said fuck that and either
shatter their gods and enslaved them
or
they were shattered by something else and then the necrons decided to capitalize on the opportunity
>>46498706
That's what they want you to think
read between the lines, young padawan
>>46497913
>Not red rage
One job, anon.
>>46498618
The Man from Earth?
>>46498727
First one. The C'tan offered an alliance to the Necrontyr and gave them the science to turn themselves into Necrons, then sort of took over until the Old Ones were defeated, after which the Necrons rebelled and shattered them. So in terms of the present time in the setting (and the 60 million years leading up to it), C'tan being in charge of Necrons is very much a thing of the past.
>>46498855
>suns vampires
>having science
WHAT
>>46499764
>Carbon factories
>Having science
WAT?
>>46498798
I missed your answer, sorry, but yeah, that was that movie.
Started out very slowly, I had trouble not falling asleep at first.
>>46499825
>The Emperor and I have been having a debate. It has been running for a long time.
>This is the debate. He believes that the task of a ruler is to make himself obsolete so that his people would replace him when they are mature enough.
>I disagree. I don't think we will ever be mature enough for that. I believe that no one but He will ever be strong enough to hold mankind forever even for a moment. He is quite exceptional, you know, perhaps in ways He doesn't understand himself.
-The Sigillite audiobook
What is the meaning behind these words?
>>46500012
What does it have to do with The Man From Earth?
>>46500044
Nothing.
Miss click.
>>46498798
I remember that movie, was good. I can see I wasn't alone in my head canon that the Man was the Emperor a long time ago.
>>46497947
>>46498063
>Big E deserved him
Big E needed him but had never done anything to deserve him.
Big E was an insufferable Fedora Lord stereotype + psychic powers.
>>46496806
>some primarchs to be female
He argued that they can act as a conflict breaker between the them. But the Emperor argued that that it is not needed because as he said "Lol, they all be loyal and shit."
>>46500476
>Big E was an insufferable Fedora Lord
It's not canon as well as deals with Chaos Gods and other shit
>>46496812
>>46497712
That's my view.
Malcador was the shadowy figure looming through human history, guiding it to its destiny. Not sure if he was born in 6000 BCE or that's just propaganda, but he clearly behaved that way in both his backstory and once he's on camera with the Emperor, where he's STILL a shadowy behind-the-scenes figure. Who the Emperor mysteriously trusted implicitly.
I'm thinking that the Emperor was genetically engineered during the Age of Strife, like many of the techno-barbarian warlords of that era. Probably created by Malcador. The Emperor was either implanted with false memories or they cooked up a false backstory for him. Quite possibly *Malcador's* backstory.
Malcador became chief adviser. Ruling from the shadows as he always had? Or genuinely loyal to his creation? Who knows? After the Heresy and the Emperor being fatally wounded, Malcador uses the crisis to cook up a pretext to fake his death and go back to the shadows from whence he came.
>>46500558
Well the Emperor hadn't factored in Chaos breaking into his house and robbing his cradles
>>46500870
He wasn't very good at planning in general.
Fucking around with reality bending xeno-tech he didn't understand is stupid enough on its own.
Doing it UNDERNEATH THE IMPERIAL PALACE rather than on some uninhabited space rock of no value is idiotic.
Not putting in safe guards in place because "lolz it won't go wrong cuz I'm doing it" has passed the retardation event horizon.
>>46500930
Putting it on some uninhabited (and therefore undefended) rock would be the dumbest thing he could've done.
Also he had safeguards in place but the failed because deus ex machina
>>46497984
Is your total knowledge of sex literally just two fucking positions?
Holy shit! Read the fucking Kama Sutra or watch some porn or something already. Fuck.
>>46498855
And the shards of the c'tan are mostly imprisoned or destroyed. Mostly.
A few survived free and there's plenty of room for one or more to have taken control of a Necron dynasty.
Plus even potentially an unshattered, full-strength c'tan operating in secret, perhaps having some degree of power in some faction of aliens. It's not hard, they just do what they did to the Necrontyr: find some faction that lives on a barren, dying, benighted world, then offer them a devils deal for survival. Then turn them, gradually, into a flesh-hating, technology worshipping death cult.
Hell, this might even be a faction already mentioned in 40k somewhere.
The point is that 40k is a big galaxy and there's room for almost anything. Plus tons of confusion and uncertainty about history that all happened so far back that in our present day we've forgotten events that far back entirely.
>>46501100
Terra - Seat of the galactic government, biggest trade hub in the entire Imperium, has most of the breeding population of Navigators, atronomican and other things.
On a planet like that you do not start fucking around with the spiky thing you found in the wreckage of an old ship called Event Horizon.
If it fucks up you have potentially lost everything, everywhere ever and fucked humanity over so hard it might never recover.
If you stick it on a deep space testing station then if it all fucks up you have lost one piece of xeno-tech you never managed to get to work and one space station.
The Emperor knew his shit, his only flaw was assuming that others would appreciate his wisdom and vision.
>>46501144
>A few survived free and there's plenty of room for one or more to have taken control of a Necron dynasty.
There isn't.
Most of the C'tan shards shown in the fluff are feral and mindless. Even Transcendent Shard (made outta between 12-100 small shards) wasn't intelligent enough to crack the protocols of Necron generator/weapon in Shield of Baal.
Between that and the Anti-C'tan Protocols impeded into the Necrons, there is negligible room for C'tan controlling dynasties.
So if the Newcrons want to preserve life from getting fucked by Nids and Chaos so they can reverse the biotransference thing, why doesn't humanity ally with them, giving them countless xeno prisoners and human heretics in exchange for their help?
>>46501236
> his wisdom and vision
Of which we see nothing of except stomp on the opposition and brain rape occasionally.
And a lot of that opposition can be summed up as "had any sort of religious belief", "had an opinion I didn't like", "didn't suck my dick hard enough" or worst of all "didn't lie down and let me stomp on them".
>>46501306
>So if the Newcrons want to preserve life from getting fucked by Nids and Chaos so they can reverse the biotransference thing
A part of them want this. Perhaps the majority.
The Destroyers and the Maynarkh dynasty seek to destroy all life in the galaxy.
>why doesn't humanity ally with them, giving them countless xeno prisoners and human heretics in exchange for their help?
Because the Necrons want to enslave mankind.
>>46497824
>>46497999
Magnus was the one they warned. He was a psyker, and capable of directly perceiving the Powers. A non-psyker is less of a beacon and so less of a danger to himself, but he's also defenseless and ignorant of the perils of the Immaterium. And also, again and again, Magnus got tempted back into sorcery to fix the problems that were manifestly the work of Chaos in the first place.
It's the classic tale: the evil manipulator puts someone or something the victim loves into peril. The victim, not understanding, agrees to do "one little favor" for the manipulator. That favor spirals out of control, turns out to have implications far worse. And which in turn bind the victim to the manipulator's service forever. Then it turns out that one of those implications is that what the victim loves is destroyed as a direct consequence of that one little favor. The victim, blaming himself, becomes resigned to his fate and the evil manipulator cackles quietly in the background. All According to Plan.
It's a very, very old trope.
In this case, Magnus fell for a really transparent ploy despite numerous warnings. He was like "yeah, yeah, I get it. I'd never fall for that" even as he fell for that. Kind of like watching a friend slowly fuck up her life on heroin or meth.
>>46501314
Angron please.
It wasn't for his own sake. He wasn't a tyrant. He did it for humanity.
>>46497824
Magnus was gonna be the dude who sat on the throne/astronomicon/webway thing emps was building. He was gonna be a living battery pretty much.
>>46501306
The Necrons want to defeat the Tyranids by denying them biomass. What possible use could they have for humanity when all the Imperium can donate to the effort is fighting the 'nids themselves (which they're already doing, badly) and donate biomass-- the one thing the Necrons don't want anywhere near the hivefleets.
The Necron approach is to handle the 'nids themselves. If they need humans as test subjects, they can collect all they need by deploying a raiding party. If they need humans to attack a given target, far more reliable to simply manipulate the primitive fools than go through the tedium to negotiate an agreement. One they'll probably break anyway.
Besides, the necrons are fighting a two front war; the other front being managing Chaos. Humans didn't create the problem, but they are sustaining and exacerbating it. An alliance limits the necrons' freedom of action to close off and pacify the Warp via brute-force application of technology.
>>46501353
Not sure if Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot or Mao.
>>46501386
I though the throne and the Astronomicon were two different things?
Also, are people in the Imperium retarded?
>"oh noes, people working in the AStronomicon are dying! Should we try setting shifts or someone so that they rest a bit?"
>"lol no"
>>46501386
>Tzeentch shows Magnus the possible future should he allow Russ take him back alive
>He is strapped on the Golden Throne. He is emasculated and burning with unspeakable agony
He was lucky to dodge that fate.
>>46501433
The Astronomicon is powered by the Choir of psykers.
The Golden Throne and the guy on it direct the light of the Astronomicon through the Warp.
>>46501440
>trusting Tzeentch's
;^)
>>46497842
t. Magnus
>>46501471
>trusting The Emperor
>>46501505
I want to shove a laser rifle up your ass and shoot.
>>46501353
There's a long list of brutal, evil tyrants who "did it all for humanity". You have to remember the hidden qualifier here: "did it all for his personal belief of what was good for humanity".
When you sum up the body counts, the death toll due to greed and apathy is far, far, far lower than the butcher's bill rung up by the idealists. Ideals can be wrong. Ideals can come into conflict. Ideals can require some pretty vile acts today to bring about an ideal world someday.
Yesterday, that activist group that posted the hidden camera videos on Planned Parenthood got raided by the police and their videos, computers, and records were confiscated. The attorney general who ordered the attack thinks she's doing it all for humanity. The activists think they're doing it all for humanity. The workers at planned parenthood think they're doing it for humanity.
Idealists aren't the only kind of tyrants, but they are a solid working majority among them.
>>46501537
I believe that was the Thunder Warrior pension plan.
And the emperor was such a fucking sperg-tard he couldn't understand why they were reluctant to bend over for him
>>46501550
>Yesterday, that activist group that posted the hidden camera videos on Planned Parenthood got raided by the police and their videos, computers, and records were confiscated. The attorney general who ordered the attack thinks she's doing it all for humanity. The activists think they're doing it all for humanity. The workers at planned parenthood think they're doing it for humanity.
Mind you, those activists brought that upon themselves. No good venture is founded on deceit. Especially not self-deceit.
>>46501440
He created that fate. His warning to the Emperor was what turned the Imperial Webway into a demon-portal. Had he obeyed the Emperor, sitting the Throne would have been an innocuous, open portal into a vast network of the Webway, through which his consciousness could have roamed the Galaxy freely.
There'd have been no need for the Astronomican, psyker sacrifices, or burning agony.
He'd also have been perfectly capable of getting up and taking a break for a few hours: rack time, a nice game of X-wing, getting laid, or taking a nice long satisfying shit. Then back onto the throne to open the portal and allow terra-centered commerce to recommence.
Instead, he kept surrendering to Chaos and doing things to avoid one thing that looked bad by creating a new fate for himself that was far worse-- and then dodging THAT by creating a still newer and worse fate. Again and again.
He of all people should have known better. I think like all the primarchs, he suffered from Chosen One Syndrome. He was raised in an environment where he was the greatest thing ever, only to discover that there were 19 other guys just like him and one more who was far, far greater. If he'd been raised by the Emperor from the beginning, he'd have grown up comfortable in the knowledge that fucking awesome is good enough.
>>46501505
>>46501471
>Trusting anyone in 40k.
As they say in Uplink, Trust is a weakness.
>>46501647
That reminds me, I never finished that game.
>>46501626
Ok let's not fall into litigating the actual incident. The AG is lying when she says she's not trying to prevent the release of more videos and shut them up. PP lied when they denied that they were harvesting fetuses for their organs and then selling them for profit without the mothers' consent (they were getting consent forms, but harvested all the fetuses regardless of whether the consent was given or not).
Chris Hanson catches pedophiles all the time with deceit. Hidden camera stories are used all the time by the media, law enforcement, and boyfriends on /b/. It's brilliant ethical genius when done by your side, and ethically questionable when done by another side.
"No good venture is founded on deceit" may or may not be true, but if it is true, then you can abbreviate it by saying "there are no good ventures" because every venture employs deceit. Good or bad.
Which in 40k (remember, this is /tg/ not /pol/) means "everyone lies". Which of course is perfectly true. The Emperor lies all the fucking time. To the point where I personally believe he's an Age of Strife warlord and created a best Korea-tier biography for himself as propaganda. Chaos is literally made of lies.
Everyone lies. People lie to their friends, their enemies, themselves.
>>46501748
>To the point where I personally believe he's an Age of Strife warlord and created a best Korea-tier biography for himself as propaganda
It would explain so much.
>>46501896
Shut up Abaddon.
>>46498063
I'm that guy now. It's hard watching your friend stretch into wizardhood after you've settled down.
>>46501896
Yeah it's kind of turning into /tg/ canon.
>>46498618
>>46498798
>>46499825
>>46500162
Lol I like this idea. Then comes the DAoT and he can settle down a little more because lots of people are very, very, very long-lived and it's a big universe.
Then comes the AoS and he becomes radicalized and starts work on creating a superbeing that really is worthy of ruling humanity-- the warlord eventually known as the Emperor.
Thanks for turning me on to this movie, anons. I'm watching it now. So far, my only complaint is that it's a classic straw-man religion/philosophy/politics debate where certain points of view are better articulated than others. I'm not christian myself, but the christian professor was pretty weak and in my experience christian theology experts are very, very sharp at countering precisely the arguments that John and the others made. Whereas she was limp and compliant.
When you're writing a script like this, it's useful to track down a few deep thinkers whose ideas you disagree with to talk the whole thing over. You'll never defend their ideas as well as they do.
Very cool movie so far.
Too much heresy in this thread.
>>46498682
>>46502351
One problem with "immortal except for accidents" is statistics. Assume the odds of dying violently via crime or accident is 1/10,000 (it's actually much worse, especially in generations prior to this one).
You'd only have a 25% chance of surviving the full 14,000 years. Admittedly, those are better odds than I'd expected, but the real probability of a violent death is much higher.
Using a more realistic number (1/200), you basically have no chance of living that long despite being ageless. In fact, you have only a 50/50 chance of making it to 138.
Ageless, without other superpowers, doesn't extend your life all that much. It improves the quality of your later years, but also ensures a messier death by accident or malice.
>>46501984
This is fate of most of the fa/tg/uys
>>46501440
NOW HOLD THE FUCKING PHONE /tg/!
The Emperors End Game was to make the Imperial Webway, uniting Mankind with Warp-Free, safe, faster than light travel, after which the Astronomicon would be SHUT DOWN because powering it took THOUSANDS of souls, which I recall the Emperor and Malcador hated, but it need to be done.
SO
Magnus' future wouldn't have been sitting on the Throne. I think.
Someone please correct me if I am wrong.
>>46503508
ALTHOUGH
Thinking on it, shutting down the Astronomicon would most likely cause a small civil war, because the Navigators would no longer be needed and most likely lose all their prestige.
Thoughts?
>>46497766
Someone needs to redraw this well and color this so it's actually good.
Not me obviously, I'm a miserable shit with no artistic ability.
>>46503508
>Magnus' future wouldn't have been sitting on the Throne. I think.
You forgot about the part where Magnus made permanent large warphole beneath Terra inside the Imperial Webway that requires the Emperor or a psyker near his power to set on the throne to keep it sealed while guiding the Golden Light.
>>46503535
Nah, Navigators have some antiwarp powers and talents. They would recruited as psyker support into Inquisition once their primary function is no longer needed.
>>46503508
>>46503656
If we're going back to the Emperor's original plan, then he creates an Imperial Webway, properly warded and guarded, that connects to the original webway and with additions and modifications that allow it to quickly and easily connect all human worlds.
The guy sitting in the chair is just an operator. He doesn't even need to be there all the time. He can get up, walk around, take a vacation, whatever. Hence my point with >>46501635. Magnus's "horrible fate" would have been to be a glorified galaxy-wide air traffic controller for a system that largely runs on automatic. Meanwhile he's got a VIP backstage pass at the only show in the universe, positioned so his mind could go anywhere and see almost anything.
For a psyker obsessed with knowledge and scholarship, this is the ultimate gift.
So then the webway project fails. You need a guy in the chair 24/7 to keep the demons from coming out and rampaging all over Terra. You need the guy in the chair to coordinate and maintain the Astronomican because the Imperial Webway is unnavigatable and so we still need astropaths, navigators, and the warp. If that beacon even flickers, then millions of people in transit in the warp will die (and it's happened before).
That's Magnus's new fate. Courtesy of... Magnus himself, who violated the Emperor's rules to send a warning via a psychic scream, that disrupted the wards that blew out the defenses that turned the Imperial Webway into a Terra-destroying fiasco. Oops.
Magnus was avoiding a fate that HE created for himself.
>>46503535
I was about to agree. It seemed logical that Navigators would go the way of the Thunder Warriors. But now >>46503721 has me thinking. It's possible that the Emperor had a plan where Navigators would be integral for humanity's future, despite no longer using Warp travel.
Certainly his goal was basically to make humans into Eldar 2.0, with greater self-discipline and less obsession with sensory experiences. Perhaps Navigators would have been the basis of that.
Oedipius complex
>>46501144
For what it's worth, I actually don't disagreealthough I'm not the one you have to convince. An exiled Necron can trick his former tomb world's AI into reprogramming all its inhabitants to serve him, the Deceiver as per the latest codex is still capable of manipulating the populations of star systems even in shard form, and Newcron lore in general (the previous codex moreso) is replete with evidence that the Necrons' defences are far from infallible. With all that, it's not really out of the question for there to be isolated groups of Necrons under C'tan (re)domination, but for whatever reason, GW have stayed completely silent on the matter.
I guess I should clarify/amend my previous post to say that the Necrons' days of existing wholly as a completely loyal slave race to their unshattered C'tan overlords are definitely over and unlikely to return, even if echoes of the pre-retcron situation have survived as part of the army's backstory (and in the possibility of shard-controlled crons, unconfirmed as it may be).
>>46504355
I want to see a tyranid/necron hybrid.
>>46504355
ANTI-C'TAN PROTOCOLS
>>46503656
We are discussing what would have happened had shit not gone south.
>>46504428
Biomechanical hate fuck machine that wants to kill everything forever.
There ya go.
>>46500859
The Emperor is Primarch 0.
>>46503830
/tg/ needs to come together and make the 'no heresy edition' of 40k
NOT FUCKING WARHAMMER HIGH .
>>46504542
THE EMPEROR AND MALCADOR ARE THE MISSING PRIMARCHS
CREATED BY THE OLD ONES TO SAVE THE GALAXY
Boy did they fuck up.
>>46504565
How much changes, other than the lack of Heresy?
Where's the drop-off point
Does Horus still get a Nurgle blade to the gut?
Does Big E still punish Lorgar?
Do all the primarchs still have their flaws, to the same/similar extent?
Do the primarchs even get stolen?
I'd say Lorgar's punishment would be a good turning point, but I don't know what would be the best way to go with it
Big E accepting his worship but telling him to move his ass conquering worlds might work.
He could convince him that he *could* flatten Monarchia via psychic vision, but not do it.
He could convince Lorgar that he's not a god right at the beginning, but try and instil his faith in the Ideals of the Imperium (kind of like what Dorn had)I do find some bits of WHH amusing, but it is mostly trash.
>>46503830
To be fair, Magnus was trying to help. If Magnus had done nothing, the Emperor would have been completely blindsided by Horus's rebellion and Magnus had no way of knowing that he was going to damage the secret project that he knew absolutely nothing about.
And the, to top off the stupid, the Emperor pins all the blame on Magnus for calling him instead of paying any attention at all to the message itself. If The Emperor has been less assblasted, the Imperial Webway project would have been ruined by the Horus Heresy would have been stopped in its infancy and the Emperor would have been alive to pick up the pieces and maybe give the webway another try later.
But this is 40k, so the only decisions anyone is allowed to make are the worst ones possible.
>>46502351
>Very cool movie so far.
OK, so, a review of The Man From Earth (recommended above, just finished watching it).
It's a great movie, worth watching. The whole movie revolves around the revelation at the climax, and it should be understood in that context. I suspect that the author go to that climax and then worked outward, forwards and backwards, to make the case and draw people in. The origins of John's views are carefully constructed-- but they are totally indistinguishable from cocktail party California political/religious/philosophical beliefs. It reminds me a bit of Grand Canyon, where the author writes a bunch of implausible coincidences, and then ends the movie by writing his characters marveling at how implausible the plot was.
Sadly, the christian character tends to be pretty shallow and not well developed-- she was mainly a foil so he could be lonely and sad and feel pity for her. (That's unfortunate, because as a professor of theology she could and should have raised obvious points about his story-- points that could then have been refuted and strengthen the overall movie. Instead she gets very upset, concedes points off-hand that a theologist wouldn't, and then reluctantly believes him). Very well acted and paced. Not since Dinner With Andre have I been riveted to a one room story driven entirely by dialogue. I can see why it's got a cult following.
Imagine it as Malcador, perhaps shading the truth a bit to keep his psychic powers a secret (psi powers which neatly close the plot holes in the movie). NOT the Emperor himself-- he's an unsubtle warlord from the Age of Strife who bet the farm on one roll of the dice and had no humility whatsoever. But instead a shadowy and somewhat lonely advisor, someone willing to take a chance on believing in someone but more alert to the dangers of what he might unleash. A man who when he does try to change the world only manages to unleash the very opposite of what he was trying to accomplish.
>>46505079
The Emperor WAS Blindsided by the Horus Heresy because he told Magnus to fuck off and didn't listen to him.
>>46505079
>paying any attention at all to the message itself.
>the only decisions anyone is allowed to make are the worst ones possible.
Yeah, about that - on accepting the power from the demon to break through to the Webway room, when he's astrally there or whatever, seeing the carnage and feeling the death shriek of half the psykers on the continent, Magnus does indeed make the worst decision possible.
He realises he's fucked up, and doesn't deliver the message, cutting the line, as it were, without a word.
In shame, shock and probably a huge amount of self-anger, knowing what he's done, he hangs up and doesn't tell the Emperor about Horus.
Honestly, it's probably half the reason (along with breaking everything) that he's so willing to accept censure
>>46505413
>just finished watching it
So I indirectly inspired someone into watching a nice movie.
Cool.
>>46504355
I agree on all counts. My only point is that if a player wants to make according-to-Hoyle oldcrons, complete with C'tan masters, then he's free to do so even if he accepts newcrons as canon.
>>46504542
Oh wow. Primarch Zero sounds like a great name for a cartoon series.
I'm totally stealing that as the new name for the fan theory.
>>46505470
Many thanks. Even good things can happen on 4chan.
I will say that the "immortal guy who's seen it all and now agree with the author" is a very old trope. Requiem for Methuselah was a star trek TOS story (written by the same guy as this movie, in fairness) where the immortal believed in standard 60's humanism. In this movie, he had standard 1990's era humanism (the movie's from the 2000's but had been written 10 years earlier before the author died).
Mel Brooks and Carl Reiner's 2000 year old man happened to be an aging, cantankerous new york jewish immigrant.
Robert Heinlein's Lazarus Long was a freethinking political pragmatist who felt that honest political elites need to protect the people by any means necessary from corrupt hypocritical opponents and from the public's own bigoted stupidity. That was in the 40s and 50s. In the 70's and 80's, he was an freethinking, anti-establishment free love libertarian. As Heinlein's views evolved, so did his immortal's "unchanging" views.
So it's a pretty well-established trope. Instead of "I believe X and Y to be true", you can say, "I've lived for almost ten thousand years, and I've learned that there are only two great truths in life: X and Y." Then you surround your story with characters designed to provide expert testimony he's right, especially after making a show of disagreeing with him at first. Then you make most of your story about the ten thousand years part, when really your point is selling people on X and Y. Then you add subordinate subplots designed to improve your sympathy towards the character and his story-- which in turn help you sell X and Y.
I'm not condemning The Man From Earth. I really liked it. But I've seen that trope used before and think it worth mentioning because really that's the core conceit of the movie.
>>46506102
The part I found interesting wasn't the concept of an immortal man but rather how it slowly develops.
It starts as a "what if", and then it ends up being proved right by the poor psychologist guy dying.Poor sap, he almost made me cry.
>>46506141
Well y'know, chilly Willy can't take the cold.
Everytime someone talks about movies on /tg/, I remember Event Horizon and how disappointing that movie was.
>>46500012
The emperor is the only one who can truly lead mankind but he has yet to acknowledge the fact oddly for one so arrogant he actually underestimates himself
>>46506141
Yeah, I love how cleverly it was executed.
The psychologist was a great touch. He analyzed John and came to his conclusions, which were ironically more about his own life and condition than anything about John. The (intentional) irony is a little like the headmaster in the The Wall movie where the teacher ridicules the schoolboy for the lyrics to a mega-hit for pink floyd-- it's an attack that from the perspective of the audience actually reinforces John's credibility.
The tragic death of the psychologist, and the loving way John says goodbye to him, lets you feel for John's loneliness and sense of loss, and also reinforces the believability of the story.
The other professors mostly ridicule his story. Whenever something factual involving their expertise comes up, they conceded that he's right about THAT part. Even stuff that factually they could have disputed.
The script actually even has the characters comment on it: that everyone present has a part to play in proving that he's right-- my, what a coincidence! Their objections are mostly emotional: "this is ridiculous" or "this offends me" or "this makes me upset" or "this is ruining our friendship". Or, best of all, "I can have you committed if you don't recant your story at once."
Notice how the archeologist's objections are always expressed in a hostile way, and always immediately before or after a subtle reminder that he's sleeping with one of his students. Tony Todd's soothing, authoritative voice always agrees with John, whereas the actors who don't believe him are always presented as brittle or juvenile, at least in the scenes where they disagree with him.
The fact that the script has the characters mentioning how odd it is that everything is designed to lend credibility to John's story tells me that the author understood full well what he was doing. The whole thing is magnificently executed, layer by layer, complete with a roaring fireplace (something any DM should use if available).
>>46497712
>>46496812
>>46500859Malcador is big Es biological brother gifted with a portion of Es power.
>>46506471
I didn't pay any attention to the others.
Great, I have to rewatch it again.
If you like that kind of stuff, go watch Twelve Angry Men, it's one of my favorite. Along with Moon, but they're totally different.
>>46506234
I know! I caught that, too! Masterful.
>>46500012
>>46506469
OK imagine if Malcador has the same belief as the Emperor. In his view, he's preparing mankind for some other ruler to take his place... the Emperor. The Emperor thinks he's paving the way for someone else, but Malcador crafted him to be the perfect ruler of humankind. If Malcador implanted the Emperor with memories, then he might well be thinking that the Emperor doesn't understand that he's been designed and destined for this job precisely because no natural human could ever do it.
>>46506574
Kinda like Punished Snake?
>>46506534
I've always meant to watch it. Now I will.
Yeah, imagine if the central revelation of the movie (what buddhism inspired him to try to do and how that turned out-- and I won't go further even with spoiler tags because the movie's too good to spoilwas the whole point and the rest of the movie is meant as a propaganda piece to push that idea.
So you need to build credibility for both John and his story. That means every attack has to be refuted, deflected, or (ideally) redirected so that it actually lends credence to him and that central revelation. The rest of the movie revolves entirely around selling that revelation and his theological beliefs.
Also, I just discovered the existence of Alexis Thorpe, and she's fucking unbelievably hot. Just saying.
>>46505515
>My only point is that if a player wants to make according-to-Hoyle oldcrons, complete with C'tan masters, then he's free to do so even if he accepts newcrons as canon.
But that's wrong and not fluffy. He can create it but it won't be canon.
They would be as canon as female loyalist marines.
>>46506663
Now that you say it, I really appreciated how, despite being immortal, he clearly was far from perfect. I think he even said it at one moment : that he's lagging behind mankind because he's by himself.
>>46504774
Well to make a Heresy-less 40k we'd have to pin point the exact the moment the seeds of treachery were planted. I think you are right on Lorgar's punishment.
Big E would HAVE to accept worship of him at some point because even before the Heresy he was putting out cults of him. If anything he'd make a puppet church that preaches the Imperial Truth. Logic, reason, unity, ext. Logar would be a great public speaker for such a thing.
The Primarchs getting stolen would still happen. I'd imagine they all face some sort of moment of crisis, maybe even execute a few heretics within their own ranks who try and get the ball rolling.
>>46496806
Malcador was advocating for superhuman incest.
>>46506666
But you're the one who's wrong. He even linked a screencap of how newcrons can easily be reprogrammed by someone clever and devious enough. Oh, and by the way, not nearly as powerful as a c'tan or as sneaky as the Deceiver.
If you don't like oldcrons, you don't have to play them, but it's perfectly possible to square this circle even with the new canon.
>>46506504
> Malcador is Big-E's biological father, gifted with powers so large that he had to put part of his soul into the Emperor, so that he may have a second try if the Emperor ever fails
>>46506666
>They would be as canon as female loyalist marines.
>sisters of battle
>>46501214
You realize the rift opened wthe the throne fails will be big enough that it doesnt matter where it is.
All moving it off earth would do is make it impossible to defend it may aswel put up neon signs that read Chaos win condition over here!
>>46506861
>how newcrons can easily be reprogrammed by someone clever and devious enough.
You mean they were programmed by another Necron who was a member of that dynasty. This means the ANTI-C'TAN PROTOCOLS were not put into effect.
Furthermore, C'tan shards were shown to be dumb as brick wen it comes to Necron technology. Like I mentioned in the thread, A Transcendent C'tan Shard was unable to access protocols of a Necron generator/weapon and thus unable to gain control over it.
>but it's perfectly possible to square this circle even with the new canon
Doubtful. Despite years since the Newcrons have been releasd, there hasn't been a single mention of Necrons serving the C'tan or C'tan gaining control over the Necrons. In fact, GW seems to throw hurdles against those notions.
>>46506731
Yes, but I think it's more a matter of "cursed by awesome" than anything else.
He has terrible feelings of loss and loneliness. He regrets the harm he's done to people he loves and then leaves. He regrets that his attempt at social justice failed so totally and disastrously. He regrets not anticipating that the story would lead to his religious revelation (because he's far too modest to have intended to have gone there). He regrets that his revelations have proven so hurtful to some people who are not ready to understand.
But then unpack them, and most of those regrets are designed to further generate sympathy between the audience and him, or to explain away hurtful moments in the movie or harm he's done in his life without giving him a character flaw.
It would be fun to re-watch and look for a scene or moment in the plot that DOESN'T serve relentlessly to sell that central revelation about who John really is or what he believes.
>>46496806
At least they didn't copy THAT from Dune.
>>46507002
Kinda like the Emperor, in a way.
>wants to improve things
>is totally misunderstood
>>46499764
God like beings as old as the universe with nothing to do but eat the energy of stars. What else were they to do with their spare time, write shitty poetry?
>>46507073
They can't invent science since they have literally nothing for this.
>>46506982
This is an interesting point. Its failure pinned the Emperor firmly in place for the rest of the Heresy and beyond. From that moment on, he couldn't take the battle to Horus or seize the initiative and counterattack him because he had to keep his thumb in the dyke.
On one hand, since it happened on earth, the consequences would have destroyed the empire. On the other, if he'd tried to build his Imperial Webway somewhere else, he'd have become hopelessly out of touch because he'd be away from the capital for long periods of time designing and building the thing. Build too close, such as on the moon, and he'd have been stuck there-- too far from the capital to rule effectively, but still close enough that a disaster would destroy the Empire anyway.
Also, I think the idea was to build ONCE. Having Terra be the central crossroads, trade center, and communications nexus of the whole galaxy was part of the idea. It gave the Imperial Capital an unassailable advantage in ruling the empire.
>>46507025
Right, hence the relevance to this thread. Note that nobody has told us to fuck off to another board. It's /tg/ relevant because the movie can absolutely be taken as a meditation on an early, more humble incarnation of Malcador (or perhaps the Emperor himself).
>>46507103
They have time and the ability to shape reality around them limited only by their knowledge. There isn't much a C'tan can't do in the materium, provided they know how it can be done. And by their nature they are observing pretty much all particle interactions around them. They see reality on a scale that includes quantum, and goes up to the size of stars.
>>46507240
That and it's canon that they taught the Necrons some of their science.
>>46507777
>>46507240
They gave the Necrontyr/Necrons knowledge.
The Necrontyr/Necrons created science from that knowledge.
Anyways, the lore say that the Void Dragon built the Pylons (oldcron fluff) and that the Moulder of Worlds built the World Engine for the Necrons.
>>46506745
That'd make sense.
Though Angron and Curze are still issues - being able to cure them removes a lot of their character, in a way it doesn't for the rest of the primarchs (though Curze can pass at a push, if his Justice! side is significantly more present than his Kill! side)
>>46510170
I think Angron and Curze would have to be put down. They just wouldn't function is a semi peaceful Imperium
or maybe we could like, Cyrogenically freeze them until the Nids' showed up
>>46510239
I like the idea of Angron being a living weapon, kept in stasis until something absolutely MUST die
>>46510265
And Kurze would basically become a grimdark Batman (moreso than he already is)
>>46510265
A wild idea appears, and it is glorious. Dreadnought Angron? Could you even feasibly make a dread for a primarch?
>>46510367
You probably could make them a dreadnought, but they'd be weaker. Primarchs can go toe to toe with greater daemons and win. A dreadnought can be damaged and destroyed, primarchs are more more adaptable, versatile, and better off not in one. A primarch could probably punch a dreadnought to death.
>>46510265
That's pretty cool - I could totally see Angron as a weapon, and he'd absolutely hate it, which totally fits.
Though stasis field, not ice
>>46503541
So long as they get Venus' skin tone right, I'll be happy. It'll supposed to be charcoal black dammit
