>What is Unknown Armies?
Unknown Armies is an occult game about broken people conspiring to fix the world. It’s about humanity, and how those among us who are the most obsessed have the power to alter reality until it aligns with their fevered desires. It’s about getting what you want despite others trying to keep it from you.
>Link to the new edition:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/atlasgames/unknown-armies-third-edition-roleplaying-game
>Previous thread:
>>46430039
>Question for the thread:
How do you feel about the new identity system?
>>46495395
Pretty happy with it to be honest, flexible enough to give you the room to do what you want but with enough guidelines that different identities are comparable. I like especially how it encourages interaction with shock gauges as a method of resolving conflict rather than just going straight to the usual well of "Faceshooter: The Man Who Shoots Faces".
>>46495859
Did you run a 3rd edition game? I'm still wondering how the new edition plays.
>>46496663
My group has been gearing up for one. It's going to end up being delayed by coursework though so we haven't gotten much further than character generation and some preludes. On that subject the books could really benefit from example/group templates to flesh out the way it all fits together and to provide options for people who aren't up to going all in their first time around, like the 'create your group' sections in the last edition.
>>46495395
I like it, especially with the features system.
>>46496849
Pretty much in the same boat. I'm getting my group together soon, but I don't expect it to last.
For examples, I get the feeling those are getting added as we get closer to formatting.
Also, what are the odds that chapter 3 not existing isn't intentional?
Has anyone tried converting the old adepts and avatars to UA3 yet? The one I'm thinking is gonna cause the most trouble is epidromancy, with body and speed no longer existing.
Is it just me or does the fashion adept's taboo seem to way too forgiving? If fashion adepts aren't allowed to be seen naked then they'll just be never-nudes. It doesn't seem like much of a hindrance on their life.
>>46497516
Their equivalent would be bonuses to: Health, Wound Threshold, Initiative, and maybe Dodge and Struggle? Maybe a system of 'phantom' notches (like The Survivor) but which only positively effect relevant abilities and are capped by the tens place of the epideromancy identity with additional boosts from charges on a temporary basis? It feels a bit messy, there's probably a better way of doing it.
>>46497689
I think epideromancy might work best by having spells substitute their magick identity for dodge, initiative, etc.
>>46497615
>can't have sex
>It doesn't seem like much of a hindrance on their life.
Spoken like a true elegan/tg/entleman.
>>46499137
Just make an overly elaborate outfit with a hole in the crotch. Do I need to spoon feed you how a vestimancer would go to the beach without breaking taboo, too?
Question. Is this edition a major change to the mechanics and/or the setting?
I only have the 1st edition. What's new in this one?
>people think videomancy is outdated
>facebook and youtube videos are the #1 sources for information about entertainment, politics, religion and the world today
>porn video sites affect internet traffic patterns
>torrenting videos & music is one of the biggest casual crimes of the world
This school should be one of the most powerful and popular ones available, though tweaked to page views, subscribers and likes.
>>46499739
So how would new-videomancers work? The old charge & taboo don't work well, maybe the school could focus on production rather than consumption.
Minor charge for 5 minutes of content, significant if a video goes "viral" (million views?)
No idea for majors or taboo.
Do you guys think that Marc Spector (A.K.A. Moon Knight)
Would make a good UA character?
>>46502746
Forgot my pic
>>46499291
The setting has been updated to fit with the current day cultural landscape with new schools and avatars. A lot of the old factions seem to have either wiped each other out or become fractured enough that new ones have taken their places as the big power players. The rules are different but not in a way that will make them unfamiliar or difficult to understand for people used to 1e or 2e rules.
Hey everyone, here's the character sheets and such for the new edition.
>>46503487
Very cool. I love it when character sheets look like they came straight from the setting.
>>46503626
Agreed. It's a stylish sheet. Very excited to fill one out!
Hey guys how would you pitch this game to your group if they were mostly accustomed to playing pnp fantasy?
>>46504878
Urban, occult, weird fantasy, horror.
Magic is out there, the supernatural is natural, and the surreal is real. But spellcasters are more like drug-users, and the occult underground is a cutthroat and deadly place. Few people who glimpse the Offness survive.
You're one of those people who glimpsed it - it's not guaranteed you're one of the few who survive.
>>46504878
Quentin Tarantino's Call of Cthulhu.
>>46504878
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4RuB3gT8t0
>>46504878
I'd post the Cosmic Bumfights picture but I'm on my phone.
>>46504878
>>46506247
>>46499137
Crotchless pants are a thing so vestimancers would only have a weird dating life instead of no dating life. Unless you're running a really bizarre (even for UA) game there really aren't that many instances where the two items of clothing rule could be violated. The only non sexual, accidental, situations I could think of would be:
1.A vestimancer goes to a public shower and a security camera saves a photo
2.A vestimancer dives into freezing water, and is forced to remove his/her clothes in front of the rest of the party or freeze.
3.A vestimancer accidentally uses a compromised cell phone while taking a bath/shower and forgets to cover the camera.
The only big thing I could see that could remove the powers of a vestimancer against his/her will that the vestimancer can't prepare for would be something that really just shouldn't be in a campaign in the first place, and that would be gang rape.
>>46499197
I would count "being able to see the naughty bits as being nude.
>>46506659
Couldn't you just shower with trunks and a bathing cap on?
>>46497615
I wouldn't say Tobias Funke had an unhindered life.
>>46508131
Sure if you want stank ass
>>46508155
Uh, just because you're wearing trunks doesn't mean you can't clean under them. Like, get a showerhead you can pick up and move around.
>>46508220
But what if your enemies install a camera in the head?
>>46508657
You'd still be clothed
>>46507133
It still doesn't really generate that many interesting situations for the players to explore.
The viamancer always needs access to a vehicle. This forces the party dynamic in interesting ways, and makes the viamancer into either a leader of some sort, or a lone wolf.
The sociomancer must never be alone. This forces a kind of buddy system making any situation where a group splits up more a more tense decision for the sociomancer. Does the sociomancer risk being alone, or does the sociomancer follow somebody else she doesn't agree with purely because of the fear of being alone?
The fulminaturge has two forms of taboo, one of them which is more of a group problem, and the other that's a personal problem. The second taboo means that one member of your group just will not be able to be with you at all times because of the firearm he's always carrying, and situations might escalate if he's not good at hiding his gun. The first taboo means that if situations DO escalate your fulminaturge forces some great dilemmas behind whether or not he should use his weapon.
The cinemancer changes up the way the party does things in order to avoid having to act out cliches. The taboo plays with the way your average adventure is run in pretty neat ways.
The cameraturge doesn't really offer that much in the form of interesting group dynamics at first glance, but at the same time a cameraturge can not operate any kind of video device that isn't analog. You could extend this to: no operating security cameras, having to cover up the camera on a cell phone in case it takes any accidental pictures, and having to rely on increasingly rare supplies in order to try and live life. This could make some interesting situations.
The agrimancer can't cross running water, can't be bit by wild animals, and can't do a number of things when the weather is shitty. Depending on the situation the agrimancer can often be forced to rely on others to do his work.
>>46509054
Oh shit, I forgot GNOMON. GNOMON adepts would be the WORST in tense situations. They'd either run away or spend so much time focusing on keeping themselves calm that they won't bother to console another party member that's bleeding out and needs help.
>>46509044
What if that's not why they installed it?
So UA 3 and the DG New York book get released at about the same time?
I wonder what the overlap will be...
>>46509054
>>46509206
Yeah, this is all true. What would a better taboo be? Maybe the 'abandoning of garments'?
Drowning? Nope, can't become an ANIMAL just to swim better.
Your hat's on fire? Shit, I'd better put it out, rather than take it off like a normal person.
Someone's grabbed my jacket? Can't slip out of it, better fight back.
>>46510274
That sounds pretty interesting, but what about a vestimancer must enact revenge on whoever harms their clothes and also prevent their clothes from more harm?
Hat's on fire? Roll up those sleeves and smash it with your bare arms, don't want to let that jacket get singed.
Somebody scuffed up your shoes? Better return the favor.
Did somebody take your purse? Take his life.
Manage to rip your pants? Better take it to the tailor soon or else you'll be punching yourself in a few hours.
>tfw no massive crossover campaign where you switch between the quirky UA characters who think the government is out to shut them down and the Delta Green agents frantically trying to kill these deranged Mythos sorcerers
>>46495395
>How do you feel about the new identity system?
Excellent. Putting the madness gauges front and center was an excellent idea. Identities are a little more intuitive than just coming up with shit.
>The Sleepers have an entirely different feel and focus
This hurts me.
>>46510025
I need this.
Pretty sure the original material describes The Fate as ruling the 'occult underground' in New York anyway.
>>46510025
Hopefully just lots of vague implications that leave the decision of whether they amount to anything up to the GM. I've always thought that the Occult Underground existing in the DG universe makes more sense than DG existing in the UA universe.
>>46510879
>>46511268
On the old UA website there's a number of archetypes written up as crossover material, positing the Great Old Ones as archetypes from dead universes trying to crash through the abandoned wreckage of previous incarnations to bask in the light of creation.
>>46511775
I remember seeing those. Still, the existence of Mi-Go, Deep Ones and all of the other straight up alien creatures that DG deals with kind of goes against the idea of UA being a humanocentric universe. You can explain adepts and avatars in DG as wackjob cultists and X-file types without contradicting the philosophy behind a universe inspired by Lovecraft. I just think that having an alien show up in a UA game would cheapen the "You did it" theme.
>>46512101
UA comes into DG just fine, but not the reverse.
>>46512234
Yeah that's what I was saying.
>>46510620
That doesn't seem so based on being 'civilized' though.
>>46512678
Oh, right. Then I've got nothing.
>>46512678
It could work as a manifest-destiny, hegemonic vigilante alt taboo. After all, if some of the benighted and ignorant masses can't accept the gifts of civilization do they deserve to be able to screw it up for the rest of us?
>>46513324
I like that. Thinking of spins on adept schools is always fun.
>>46510274
>>46510620
"Suffering the elements or clothing failure"
It's sunny out and you don't have a hat or parasol? Better fashion a headscarf quick. Is it cold and you don't have insulation? work in layers. Your shoes got soaked, is it downpouring? your fault for not being ready. Are you burning because of acid or fire? you have a thick coat for these things.
You can take it even farther. Special event? Gotta be in uniform, as catering or guest. Got shot? Gotta wear that kevlar, dude.
>>46513524
That is a brutal taboo. I think I like it.
Bump to keep the thread alive.
>>46502746
A Batman ripoff that is legitimately bonkers ?
Yea, seems like a neat avatar of warrior.
Although i think that Badger would be better cape for Unknown Armies.
I'm really quite liking the new game, from everything I've seen so far. But I have seen some people complaining about the fact that the setting seems a little more upbeat and less focussed on everyone being skeevy Occult Underground gangsters. Any thoughts?
>>46510274
I'd aim for this. Vestimancy was the one school that I loved the abilities and concept of, just the taboo isn't really terrible at all.
I was thinking maybe something about having your outfit disrupted in general. Get your nice fancy suit torn? That's a tabooening. Be in disguise as a fireman and have your helmet stolen? That's a tabooening. But I don't know if that just encourages people to play it far too safe,
>>46512234
I think the best way to do it is to have the Mythos be what happens when the Invisible Clergy fills up with people who decide to put a stop to the whole system, recode the universe so that humanity can't restart it and completely abscond themselves from their job. You get a universe that's mostly inhuman and horrifying, but there's a few elements of the universal coding remaining that the old Clergy (who're probably now Azathoth and his court) either chose not to or failed to remove. And Nyarlathotep is the Comte, of course.
>>46517995
I can see that viewpoint and understand the trepidation that a playstyle that they've gotten used to may no longer be supported in official materials from here on. On the other hand it's a game of make believe and none of the changes are a dealbreaker for playing that kind of game regardless of what the book might imply. If anything is worth complaining about it's that some of the adept schools are a little lackluster, but it's pretty easy to upgrade the old ones and the better fan materials.
GNOMON in particular does a great job of updating the skeevy undertones to a more modern UA.
>>46518488
If anything, in my opinion, most of the adept schools are a huge improvement over the ones in 2e, they just need some extra polish. Bibliomancer is forced to stay in one location, dipsomancer is always drunk which means you have to either drink OOC for an authentic character or pretend to be drunk which gets annoying, epidiromancer can literally die every time they try to get a significant charge, the videomancer is outdated, and the general adept theming for heavy self sacrifice and constant artifact gathering made for a really short lived and rarely mobile party.
With the new edition you can have the entire party be adepts with shitloads of charges on them and not have the GM constantly in a state of panic trying to make the session work well. Unless your entire party is composed of agrimancers though, that might actually be a new kind of GM hell:
Players: What's the weather out like today?
GM: It's a light drizzle
Players: Mmm, maybe wait a day or two on the the hostage rescue.
GM: oh, uh... okay. The sky clears up?
Players: Roads could be too slick. We can wait. A good farmer should always be patient.
>>46518701
I always felt like most of the adept schools were designed more for NPCs than players.
>>46520162
In the new edition, or the older ones?
>>46518701
You know, I hadn't thought about it this way, but I think I agree. While vestimancer could still have a bit stronger of a taboo, you're right that the taboos do lead to a more interesting play experience. I would attribute this, in-universe, to the 3/3/03 event changing the nature of adepts radically (as can be seen in other ways). Out-of-universe it's probably just a design philosophy change, of course.
>>46518488
>>46517995
I really don't understand those complaints. It's more subtle in the newest version, of course - you don't literally have skeevy sorcery like drug magick or booze magick any more - but the 'gang' part in 'gangsters' is seriously prominent in the new edition.
A lot of the new adept schools do not penalize getting together, and in fact seem to work best in groups. As noted, the changes to the taboo philosophies (and charging) make it far easier to actually assemble a viable cabal, and start wreaking serious havoc on the underground. 'Gang war' seems very doable in the new edition.
In other senses, the 'occult underground' does seem significantly more subtle than before... there's a lot less note about the sketchy surface-level underground, for example, and more focus on the global cosmic conspiracies. But it's still there for a GM who wants it bad enough.
What isn't there for people who want it bad enough, you know?
Does anybody else love 'Gutter magick'? I want to make a gutter mage character.
Chaos magick best magick.
>>46522285
Agreed. It feels so natural to the setting, too. It hasn't been in previous editions, right?
>>46522044
The older one more so. The new ones feel much more usable as PCs for the most part.
>>46522352
Authentic Thaumaturgy is what it was called in 2e I think.
>>46522352
>>46523240
No, it very much was in the previous ones, called 'tilts' back then.
However I think the rules this time are a lot more fun and vague. Being able to do a legit hex that blasts someone and deals damage? Rules for prophetic visions? Really cool.
I only wish there was an identity that boosts the power of gutter magic a little. Maybe you could make it an obsession so it can flip flop? I don't remember if any identities do that already.
>>46523587
Oh, there's definitely ways to do that. As you said, the easiest way is to make it an obsession, but you can also make a 'Unique' feature. 'Unique' is a bit broad as defined in the rules right now, but I'm sure there are ways to make it support gutter magic. For example...
Gutter Nutter: XX%
Substitutes for Secrets. Coerces Unnatural. Unique: Get +3% or -3% to Gutter Magick rolls.
I still can't believe the Freak and Comte St. Germain are now the Human Eternal and Old Mother Apocalypse. How crazy is that?
Hey, dukes, chargers, lord and checkers! I just finished bookmarking all of Book 2 and Book 3! Uploading now! Hope it'll be useful to you all!
>>46524510
>>46524510
>>46524548
Wonderful! Thank you so much!
>>46524510
>>46524548
...getting shit doneEvery once in a while.
>>46526960
Hey man between the bookmarked pdfs, forming an IRC game, successfully creating at least one new adept school and campaign workshopping these have been some of the most productive threads on /tg/ lately.
Oh, I should have probably uploaded Book 1 as well, for those who missed it! Silly me!
>>46527103
Right? Unknown Armies is on a roll.
Speaking of which, as a reminder, anyone wanting to join the IRC game - currently scheduled for Sundays - hit me up atinfinitesaturday at gmail.
>>46530750
Jesus Christ
>>46530750
Stolze, you mad genius.
Just watched Southbound. Not perfect for Unknown Armies but it has a lot of cool possibility for inspiration. In my opinion, especially forRooms of Renunciation
>>46530750
Alright that's actually pretty great.
Live damn you thread, live!
Bumping for a minor charge
>>46527419
Sent an email, but might as well use the excuse to bump the thread as well. What time/timezone are you vaguely expecting to run?
>>46523795
And would coincidentally be your general "Of course I know where to find other magick-casting lunatics round here," and other useful abilities.
>>46538548
Not that guy but we seem to be a mix of EST and PST. We're shooting for playing around 3pm PST.
>>46538462
Does p10 give more charges?
>>46539182
Ah, GMT kinda screws me there. Have fun!
So, well before 3rd Edition was anything but a vague rumour, I'd been thinking about an antagonist group to use in an UA campaign. Now I'm reading the playtest stuff, and I think Stolze's done what I was thinking about, but better, with GNOMON and The Milk. No idea if it's worth building upon.
"Don't be evil"
It's an odd motto for a company based around a search engine. Odder still when you rephrase it as "Don't do harm". Why would a tech company rephrase a phrase associated with the healer? Because humanity is sick, and the cure could be as simple as a search engine.
People search the internet for a thousand things. Sometimes, those things are mundane. Sometimes they are tragic. Sometimes they're hilarious. Sometimes they're horrific. Human beings search the internet for recipies, names for babies, for things to do, and for how to dispose of bodies. People search the internet to ask why they have nightmares, or what that crawling pain is, or how to repair relationships. And the search engine remembers. People everywhere do it. Bearded San Francisco hipsters, East European labourers struggling in the West, Jihadi fighters in Syria, Chinese dissidents crawling through the Great Firewall. It is the modern confessional, agony aunt, and grimy back-page. We tell it everything. And in return it tells us everything.
This makes control over the virtual monopoly on internet searches a vastly powerful tool for both monitoring and shaping humanity, and through humanity, the Invisible Clergy. The people behind it, crawling over vast mountains of data, are building a better picture of the collective unconcious and soul of mankind than any before, and, in equal parts, shaping it. The responses they provide us shape us and our behaviour. They shape our perceptions of each other, of mankind. And so they can shape the Clergy.
>>46541142
So the people behind this ubiquitous engine have both the means of identifying magickal potential (looking for places where people have been searching for "Can people fly?" is a good start), they have the means for monitoring what the Invisible Clergy is, and they have the means to change humanity and so reshape the Clergy. They are, perfectly place to create avatars then make them fit the Clergy, and the Clergy fit them.
The change of name to "Alphabet" is, of course significant, and a sign of things to come. The Alphabet is everything, since everything is constructed from infinite combinations of letters.
They're going to build a better world. And heal mankind.
This train of thought was somewhat started by reading this:
http://www.clickhole.com/blogpost/pharaohs-silicon-valley-my-journey-through-google--2618
>>46541158
I really liked the doctor analogy. They diagnose. Pursue that more, perhaps
>>46541158
That's pure Ayn Rand.
And it's what Google actually does. Only they don't save mankind, they package and sell it.
Do you folks mind a question on older UA stuff? I'm running Garden Full of Weeds and I'd like to compare notes while we wait some more releases.
>>46542798
No, don't mind at all. Go for it. I haven't played Garden Full of Weeds though, so I can't help personally, but hopefully somebody here can.
>>46523994
As somebody who just walked in, where would I look to understand just how crazy spoiler is?
>>46543974
Yeah, that spoiler must be insane-sounding to people who have no idea what I'm talking about, lol.
Read Unknown Armies 2e for an understanding of who The Freak and Comte St. Germainwere before 3/3/03, to get a good idea of how significant and meaningful they are, and how much of 'bogeymen' and 'do not fuck around with these people' they have going for them. Then read Unknown Armies 3e and marvel at the factthat they completely changefor some unknown reason on 3/3/03
Looking at Kickstarter numbers. Is Unknown Armies really that unpopular?
>>46544106
It's a bit niche, but not unpopular, I'd say... it got funded very quickly.
>>46543932
>>46543932
Ok, thanks.
So, Garden full of Weeds is a scenario from Weep, in which a lot of bad things are happening in a poor borough of the city, due to the influence ofa deranged guy who is unwittingly channelling the Chronicler.
From my reading, the scenario is supposed to unfold through a number of encounters with weird things, after which the PCs should supposedly be able to piece together the identity of the source of all the fuckery going on. However, I feel that these links are less obvious than what the author of the scenario assumes.
The first part is relatively straighforward - there is a clear issue (dead babies), a bit of legwork brings PCs to the cause of the issue, and there is a clear resolution. So far, so good.
After that the PCs are supposed to go after a spooky kidnapper who operates in the same area, and here I have some issues. Namely, the module remarks the fact that this guy is taking people who nobody cares about, and the police is out of the question. Following the events of the game, any attempt to steer the PCs on the course of this guy would be heavy-handed to say the least at this point - I will probably have to go there anyways, since it's kinda important to get to the finale. In the meantime I'm gaining time with a bunch of side events and red herrings, hoping they give me the right hook. If that doesn't work, I'll have some NPC call out directly for help or something, but as I said I'm trying to avoid forcing things too blatantly for now.
I mostly wanted to know from folks here who have already run/played the scenario how they found it, and if they ran in the same issues I have.
>>46544130
It's just that I expected it to reach the level of the more successful Onyx Path kickstarters.
>>46546595
It seems to be going at a similar pace to the Delta Green KS. Not surprising, considering the overlap in the fanbases.
>>46495395
I'm running a oneshot this weekend for 4 friends of mine as a stress test for a campaign I'm gonna start running in the summer, does anyone have some advice about that?
I've never GM'd before, but I've read enough of the 2nd edition books that I know the rules like the back of my hand, I just want to know hat kind of acumen I should use as a run the game.
Should I go gung-ho as fuck for the realism aspect of the game and fuck them over if they leave bullet casings at the scene of a fight? Make sure their characters are plausible human beings in edition to being being kinda crazy so that the story has some tension?
Or, because these people are used to murder-hoboing in DnD, should I cut them some slack and just let them unleash their crazy retarded schemes where they're probably gonna end up shooting people in the face without a second thought because they won't comprehend that this isn't DnD and actions have consequences? Just let them be the random jackasses with no histories that I know they'll end up rolling without me directly suggesting that they work at wal-mart and have a dog?
Also I've been looking at the 3rd edition books and I don't really like them very much.
>>46545108
Have the kidnapper take someone who most peoplease don't care about, but the PS do. For example, people dipping into the occult underground - or in it outright - are often deranged or isolated enough that they aren't noticed more than hobos are in the aboveground.
If they don't know anyone of that description, an NPC they do know does. AND she knows they dealt with weird stuff last time, and could they help her find her friend, maybe?
Alternatively, a victim reaches our desperately via supernatural phenomena.
>>46548239
Be realistic but warn them about it in advance. UA is a game with murder hobos but they are dealt with seriously.
>>46543974
From my limited backstory knowledge:
The Unknown Armies equivalent of Cain from oWoD or the Cheshire cat from Alice In Wonderland got rebirthed into basically some Lovecraftian shit. St.Germaine was just some random guy that got so good at magic he basically became a trickster god, an immortal being that runs around having fun doing whatever while being partially worshiped. In 2003 something happened to him and he gazed back across multiple rebirths of our universe and now he just wants the human race to end, and has a chance at making that happen.
>>46549016
>Be realistic but warn them about it in advance. UA is a game with murder hobos but they are dealt with seriously.
That's what I was thinking I should do, thanks senpai.
Also, I've gotten a few little scenarios done for my campaign that I want to use, here are some summaries:
There's a situation where two girls went camping and now one of them suspects the other of being replaced by a Skinwalker (She wasn't.) and I've got story beats with the players trying to find out if there really is a Skinwalker or whether or not it's just paranoia, culminating with an investigation in the woods that has a very really and very dangerous Skinwalker lurking in the wilderness. All this is based on /x/ spook stories. I want this to happen somewhat earlier in the campaign as it introduces supernatural fuckery without blowing the Adept/Avatar load way too early.
There's also a Serial killer lurking in the town I have the campaign set in, though that's gonna be in the background for many situations until they finally have enough clues to possibly deal with it. Basically the guy is gonna be an Avatar of the Dark Stalker, and he's gonna serve as my introduction to what the fuck Avatars are.
Adepts aren't gonna be a thing until the players get high enough in the occult hierarchy that a local cabal of Adept organized criminals takes notice of them and starts pressuring them into either playing ball or trying to subtly crush them if they resist. This is where I want to start really pumping the paranoia gas, an Urbanomancer will be watching them and fucking with them all the time, and a lot more of the subtle tell-tale signs of conspiracy and magic are going to start making themselves apparent as the players try to get out ahead of this faction.
Other than those three things, I'll probably extrapolate some scenarios based on their trigger events when I see them.
>>46549671
This all sounds great. I'd love more details regarding the Skinwalker case.
>>46548239
Your group will have to pick up a new concept of 'party'. That can be tricky for DnD veterans.
UA very much offers itself as a closed game, as in the players keep their characters' secrets. With DnD players this ends up PvP more often than not. And it's not a good introduction to UA.
On the other hand playing UA as an open game where the party characters trust each other implicitly ruins much of the tension and fun. UA is not Paranoia, but it certainly has some of that vibe.
>>46549671
>senpai
>>46549585
>senpai
Kill yourself, desu.
>>46549964
Basically once the players start getting a bit of notoriety (I don't know what they're going to do, so I'll just leave them to pursue their own methods for a little bit.) they'll be contacted by one of two chicks (Depending on the tone of the party.) that were both best friends, but after a recent camping trip they both claim to have reason to believe the other one is has been replaced by a Skinwalker.
One is fairly rash but capable, and insists that her friends personality has completely changed since the camping trip, and wants to bring the party along on a camping trip in order to prove that the other chick is a Skinwalker and resolve whatever paranormal shit is going on.
The other one has noticed her friends odd behavior since that camping trip, and while she isn't as hung up on the whole Skinwalker thing, she's faintly suspicious that her friend has gone off the deep end and wants the party along to protect her from her friend in case she gets murderous.
In reality neither are Skinwalkers, and Chick #1 just has a mental scheme to off her friend because she found out her she cheated on her boyfriend with her. She essentially wants to dupe the party into murdering her friend because of paranoia so that she can use them as patsies in case the police start investigating.
Chick #2 is largely clueless about all this shit, and just wants things to get back to normal.
Over the course of the camping trip Chick #1 will be fabricating Skinwalker evidence that points to #2, and the party will have to stay perceptive.
Depending on how shit works out, one or both of the girls could end up getting killed, or the party might inadvertently attract the attention of an actual fucking Skinwalker that may replace any of the people in the woods depending on how things play out.
They'll either have to escape or use their occult skills in order to neutralize the monster.
>>46551566
Sounds interesting enough. I worry the existence of an actual Skinwalker may reek of BS to the party. Make sure the murderous girl is leveraging existing myths and rumors and urban legends in the area, maybe even a recent event (within the past 5 years ) of a supposed skin walker case. That'D make it feel more natural that there's an actual skin walker she tried to exploit
>>46552112
Yeah, I was basically already planning that.
Well, depending on how much investigative skill the party has.
If they decide to look up the area on the internet or search newspaper archives they'll definitely find a lot of mysterious shit going on in the area, but I honestly don't want any of the girls involved to invoke the myths COMPLETELY correctly just because I want the party to be able to remember her made up descriptions and compare them to what happened in the information they dug up and found some inconsistencies.
If all the myths are totally common knowledge I feel like they'd be able to figure the mystery out too quickly.
I hope that gives them the best of both worlds in being able to (A) Verify there is actual paranormal shit to be concerned about, and (B) Verify that chick #1's stories are bullshit.
If they get a flawless victory on the scenario they'll find out that the Skinwalker is a native American shaman that got too in touch with his animal side and became a monster that craves to wear human skin, but if they're savvy enough they might be able to help it rediscover it's own humanity and gain a powerful favor from the creature. The girls would also make up and start getting along again.
However, that's highly unlikely. What I expect to happen is for a person or two to die and have the Skinwalker chase them out of the woods, with the surviving girl being a confidante in the wings for future exploits.
If both girls die, then the party will have fucked up pretty bad and will have gained nothing besides some XP probably.
>>46552367
If you wanted to add an additional wrinkle or extra details to the Skinwalker, check out the Lycanthrope entry in the 2nd edition core book.
been playing 2nd edition since 2013. the same campaign, kinda weird porting such old characters into a system that expresses you to be pretty fresh. new rules are great. I'd say maybe took a smidge from apocalypse world and Stolze's own Wild Talents. characters that we're spread too thin before become more consolidated with identities substituting for certain etiquette and knowledge's. also I like the relationship system, gives you a way to get new characters involved with out meeting in a bar or being part of an established cabal. For the record I'm the guy that got eaten by carnals while whammyed to look like sasha grey.
>>46552421
I don't really like some of the mechanics of how they work in regards to the reality warping and timeline rewriting, both because it's kinda unwieldy and because I like the idea of actual hybrids, a Lycanthrope just becoming a normal wolf every once in awhile sounds kinda lame.). I'll explain the Skinwalker away as being a guy who specifically invited the demon/animal hybrid into his body, and they formed a three way amalgamation as it's true form with it being capable of shifting into animal form sometimes, but nothing else as I'll basically explain that the human soul is so emaciated that it essentially has no control anymore unless the party takes direct action.
It'll basically look like pic related if they get a goof look at it, which they probably won't.
If the party can successfully figure out it was human and maybe contact some actual Native Americans about it, they should be able to perform a ritual that will revert it back into a human (Albeit a Human with some serious natural magick at his disposal.).
>>46552666
I'm with you on the jankier aspects of Lycanthropy, your take on it seems much more solid.
>>46552666
>the human soul
nty
>>46546834
There is a minimum 80% overlap; everyone who I have ever played either with has broached the topic of playing the other without me doing it first.
>>46546595
>>46546834
The people behind this are some of the people behind the Delta Green kickstarter.
The Delta Green kickstarter was run by a group of the people who pioneered crowdfunding for game content projects a decade before it was called crowdfunding.
They asked for exactly how much they needed to make the base product that was the minimum to proceed, told people exactly how much extra stuff they could make for X extra dollars. People gave them that because they had complete trust in the product. They have funded basically everything they could think of for that, to the point they will be writing it for two-three years to finish.
This is specifically a highly effective kickstarter. It doesn't need to make the turbobucks because they know what they are asking for, how to get it, how to use it, and what to do with it. There are countless examples of kickstarters that exist purely to raise as much money as possible to the point they go to hugely silly risks that compromise the project to see if they can go big. Almost every one fails, because when you run a thing to make money you don't run it to be good. And even then, the few who succeed, many of them fall because there is just as big a risk to making a huge surplus to not making enough.
>>46553358
Human souls canonically exist in this setting, and are a major part of how Lycans work.
What do you mean "nty"?
Is UA the one where humans were eldritch abominations forced into this form by the demiurge or am I thinking of something else?
>>46554132
No, Unknown Armies is about
>>46504971
>>46505161
>>46506281
>>46530750
>>46554132
You are thinking of Kult.
Anyone have/want custom adept schools?
I've been thinking of a few myself, but it's hard coming up with a good charging method for mirror mages beyond 'just staring into mirrors'.
>>46554553
What's their central conceit/taboo/paradox? What kind of stuff are they supposed to be able to do?
Did first session chargen and stage setting. I think things have gone well.
>>46554735
oof, those are some cringey topics.
>>46554772
I know. Our group isn't the most serious, but I'll try to keep it grounded a bit.This is what happens when you play with teenagers.
>>46554444
Thats the one, thanks anon
>>46554812
Ayy, I'm playing with some friends I knew back in high school (Some of which are still in high school.) tomorrow.
I'm definitely not counting on there being a very serious vibe.
>>46544106
>unpopular
>$100k in 24 hours
What does "popular" look like to you?
>>46555235
At least I've got it pretty good as far as high school groups go. Noone's trying to powergame, everyone was willing to adjust concept to fit with the group, and IC arguments stay IC. The only real problem is immaturity, but I keep expectations realistic when it comes to these things.
>>46553263
I'd really like to see a revised look at the Lycanthrope concept in 3e. I love the basic idea of it, just the outcome is something that's just too confusing to even investigate. And asking the players to go "You thought you were investigating a particularly violent wrestler? Now you know you're investigating a wolf who is also a wrestler. Forget about him ever being a human" and then ten minutes later saying "Now forget about him being a wolf, he is and has always been a human".
You kinda have to give the players something that doesn't change when the rest of reality does. And that just gives away the whole mystery. I dunno. It's a tricky one.
>>46549671
>There's a situation where two girls went camping and now one of them suspects the other of being replaced by a Skinwalker (She wasn't.) and I've got story beats with the players trying to find out if there really is a Skinwalker or whether or not it's just paranoia
>D&D players
They will kill the (not) skinwalker immediately.
>>46554657
You mean mirror mages?
Typically, they manipulate reflections and copies of things, as well as symmetry. The paradox is that a mirror is the closest thing we get to seeing how we look, how we go out into the world, but it's always a lie. Remember that the face you know in the mirror is flipped as to what it actually is.
Their blast is any damage dealt on one side of a characters body is reflected on the other side, requiring a successful attack, but basically doubles the damage. If the wounds would overlap, it doesn't work. If the person's body is heavily asymettrical, such as hitting their left arm but their right arm is gone, then it also doesn't work. Minor blast doesn't actually mirror the wounds, it's subtle pain and has max damage of 10 place of your Adept identity. Significant actually mirrors wounds with no max, just equal to first damage rule.
Spells could include duplicating small objects, making people think you share their passions or fears, making a duplicate of yourself, stepping through a mirror and appearing somewhere else.
Charges are the only thing I'm not sure of yet. Minor is just examining yourself in a mirror for a few hours, significant is being able to see your reflection for an entire day or two, like living in a fun house. Maybe a major would be having a perfect duplicate of yourself, or post mortem if you are buried in a mirrored coffin. (We know people come back from that more than they should, especially in UA.)
>>46552367
Hey, sorry for replying late. Hopefully you're still around.
I agree that the myths should NOT be 'common knowledge', and that the girl should not have full knowledge of what's actually going on, or indeed, even know the correct details of all the facts.
What I more meant was, there's an urban legend of skinwalkers that floats around the area that is vague and sketchy and weird, and the girl - maybe not even calling her friend a 'skinwalker' by those words exactly - suspects she was replaced. She hits enough of the notes that she vaguely-remembers from the time that hot jock told her a scary story at a sleepover, that the suspicion is planted.
I agree that it shouldn't all be accurate. But if there's a skinwalker in the woods, there should be evidence of its existence, like as you said, some mysterious shit and stuff. If there isn't, THEN it's bullshit.
The big problem you want to avoid is them doing all the work to prove there isn't a skinwalker, then SURPRISE! There's a fucking skinwalker! Now THAT would be stupid.
Ideally, they prove that - under HER description of events that either her story is bullshit and/or that there's no way her friend is a skinwalker. HOWEVER, they also realize, over the course of their investigations, that there really IS something shady in those woods...
That would be the best result.
Now, the big question is, why the fuck do the girls go BACK into the woods? Does her murderous friend drag here there to make it the scene of her crime? Does she just snap when the party confronts her, and kidnaps her friend? Maybe she realizes the party is onto her, and kidnaps her friend and intends to kill her to 'prove' she was a skinwalker? Something has to happen to bring them back into those woods.
>>46552473
I don't remember that story, I'd love to hear it.
>>46554812
I can tell.
Seriously though, that's a dope set-up. If I ever get together an IRL party I want to do that.
>>46556130
Nah, I'm running a one shot tomorrow that I'm likely gonna play completely by ear with D&D players.
That scenario is for a campaign that I'm bringing more perceptive and serious people in on a month from now.
Besides, there's a reason I picked both of those people to be female. I'm hoping the players will be less likely to jump to lethal force if the one accused of being a Skinwalker is fairly kind, non-threatening, and attractive 21 year old woman.
Of course she's going to be acting slightly off so they don't trust her 100%, but I'd still be very surprised if they killed her.
If they do I won't stop them, I'll have to scrap my fucking notes and transition into the police manhunt scenario instead.
>>46555940
The only way that I can think of to work it is to not be explicit about it. Sneak up on the players with the details until they go 'wait, what?', it didn't seem weird that the wrestler was also a wolf because that's what he always was and they weren't looking at the detail when it changed because from their perspective it didn't until they're confronted with it.
Player 1: "Alright, Alex said he saw the guy go into the last stall. I say we post up outside and wait for him."
Player 2: "This sonnuvabitch is going to pay for what he did to my sister!"
GM: "So you guys take up positions and as if on cue 'Loco Lobo' comes padding out of the mensroom. Looking left and right he tilts his head and sniffs the air, letting. out a low growl when he spots you."
Player 1: "I lunge toward him and take an overhead swing at his head with my piece of rebar!" <rolls> "Oof, I missed."
Player 2: "I pull out my piece!"
GM: *rolls* "Snarling, Loco Lobo surges toward you" <indicates Player 1> "clamping his muzzle down on your outstretched forearm and shaking. You feel something in your arm break and his matted, grey pelt turns red with your blood, his tail whipping vigorously."
Players: "...wait, what?"
>>46556296
Yeah, contriving a reason to get all the characters together in the fucking woods plausibly despite all the bad blood and suspicion is my only major hurdle.
Right now I'm planning on doing it by making the whole thing start off as low key as possible, so out-right accusations and threats probably won't even become a thing until things are already starting to get heated in the wilderness.
I was thinking that they would receive an email/note/be approached at a club (Really depends on how the party goes about instigating their shit.) and basically get a "Hey, word on the grapevine is that you guys are involved in a lot of really weird shit? Well, I've got this friend..."
Maybe she seduces one of the players first, maybe she's pretty blunt about it, as I said, depends on what the party ends up being like. Either way, I'm expecting mild skepticism, so I think I'm going to try to bait them into the scenario with "I know you have no reason to believe me, but if you come with me on trip I have planned next week and just protect me in case that THING tries something, I'll pay you 2 grand each. When I prove to you that it's not her, I'll give another 5 to whoever... deals with it."
(Again, the tone of the conversation depends on how scrupulous the party is. If they're total paladins money might not even come into the question at all.)
We have the twin carrots of curiosity and payment, but I'm a little worried the players might just think "Eh, sounds like a good way to get fucking killed. PASS." because they have no legitimate personal stakes.
So I might retool some things and make this chick a relative of one of the players, which might even be good because it places one of them firmly in her camp and might cause some inter-party strife. (Of course, that may be a bad thing.)
I just don't know yet man, I'm good at playing things by ear, but I haven't gamed with these people and I don't know what characters they'll make.
>>46556250
That charging method is solid. On average, a minor charge is just a few hours or so of work with specialized equipment, and a significant charge is a hassle to do daily, but doable when extremely dedicated.
I will say I think the paradox, while nice, is a bit weak. I would rephrase it a bit... mirrors are our closest attempt at perceiving ourselves from the perspective of others. How you see yourself, what you believe or know about yourself, is meaningless. The only thing that matters is how people perceive you.
There was a lady whose license was mistakenly stamped as "sex offender" rather than "organ donor". Did it matter that she knew what she was? No. Everyone saw her as a sex offender, treated her as one, and in a sense, she -became- one, by the rules of society. If everyone thinks you're a sex offender, treats you like one, and talks about you as one, well, you're the statistical outlier in such a world. For all intents and purposes, you are one.
And if we're talking about how others perceive you, well, looks are important. First impressions and all that. And the best way to see yourself from another's perspective is the mirror. No wonder they are symbols of self-reflection... and it is no coincidence that mirrors make people less willing to commit crimes in their presence. We judge ourselves as from another.
But even a mirror only reveals the surface of a person. Its the key symbological component of deeper reflection, but it's back-to-front of what people really seek out of it...
So, that's the central paradox... that a mirror's power is that you 'see' yourself from someone else's perspective, but you really don't. You're just seeing your face, not your actual existence.
>>46556250
Maybe significant could involve making another person observe themselves in a mirror for a few hours.
>>46556250
>>46556620
So, the major charge (as you currently have it) is good. Typically you want those to be an objective people work towards, and 'make a magical, physical, genetic simulacra of myself' is damn good.
Still, another possibility could be a moment of 'self-reflection'. Something like 'When you trigger a Rank 7+ Self check based on realizing how you are perceived by others, if you fail, you get a major charge.'
Also, this does help expand the domain of the school a bit. It covers the idea of 'perception', and 'introspection'.
>>46556650
Not a fan. Mirrors are for SELF-reflection. The school is warped around the self - it's a classic symbol of narcissism, after all.
>>46556530
This sounds pretty good. And yeah, if you don't know, that's cool. I would recommend preparing multiple contingencies but you're clearly doing that already, so, good on you.
Don't plan too far ahead, obviously! Get a feel for what they're like before you start trying to make predictions.
Or, better yet, just prepare a living, breathing world. If they don't pursue this case? She ends up murdering her friend in the woods, and her friend might end up a vengeful ghost, or she might end up being murdered by the Skinwalker (drawn by the scent of blood) and replaced, or whatever.
The key is, even if players don't bite your bait, you can still progress the story in the background and make it explode in their faces at a later date. In fact, imagine them going in the woods for a case later and HOLY SHIT IS THAT JESSICA'S GHOST!? I think most players would love that shit.
>>46556250
I don't like the charge method at all personally.
It doesn't really feel active enough, you know?
I feel gaining a charge is something a player should have to go out and accomplish. Maybe not for every single charge, but at least have the background knowledge that player isn't just literally sitting there for hours on end doing nothing while he gains enough juice to do something when shit actually hits the fan.
I really think you should hit up the more metaphorical aspect of mirrors, as this guy >>46556620 said, that they are opposite reflections that don't necessarily always show the spirit of the truth.
Getting minor charges from getting someone to do something they wouldn't normally do sounds good, and getting a significant charge from convincing people that someone/something is not who they were initially perceived to be seems like a good way to get a significant charge.
I don't know about getting a major charge. Maybe you have to fail a bunch of self checks on purpose and destroy everything you've built and cared about in order to allow you to use a major charge to totally re-customize your character with different name, stats, skills, etc with the obvious caveat that they can't add more points, only redistribute.
It could function like changing history too; the adept might remake himself as a Epideromancer instead, and have history totally rewritten to accommodate his new self.
That sounds pretty dope to me.
On a side note, I think I'm going to make my own Adept school called Kinesiomany/Kinesiurgy.
Because goddammit, I want muscle wizards.
>>46556857
This is a mirror mage school. We can get pretty damn symbolic with charges, yes, but it still has to revolve around mirrors at some point, you know?
The gun mages wield their guns. The camera mages take pictures. The farmer mages slaughter livesetock. They each have a symbolic representation of their philosophy in the form of a physical thing - gun, camera, livestock - and they use that to gather a charge. It seems pretty essential to me that the mirror mages have to use mirrors to gather charges. And, again, the central symbolic tension of the school is about self-perception, and mirrors are narcissistc symbols. I don't think we can evade something involving 'looking at yourself in a mirror'. It can be more active than just staring, of course, but it's gotta have that idea somewhere, right?
And frankly,I just can't understand how "getting someone to do something they wouldn't normally do" relates to "mirrors".
Also, mirror mage man, what's the taboo?
>>46557164
>And frankly,I just can't understand how "getting someone to do something they wouldn't normally do" relates to "mirrors".
It all ties into the paradox my man. To wield the power of the mirror, you have to make someone question what their true self is and reflect on it. The simplest way I can think of inducing that self-reflection is by making them take a minor action that they wouldn't normally do.
How the fuck would staring at yourself gain you a charge if there's no symbolic juice flowing?
The taboo would probably be something like getting in the way of change.
To be perfectly honest, I don't think item based mancy works all to well. if you're having trouble even codifying what the taboo would even be, how is an adept meant to accidentally stumble into this school? There aren't a lot of adepts yo. maybe 24-60 in most major cities. That means there's probably roughly 700 - 1800 adepts in the United States.
Assuming a good 60% of them fall into the 12 major schools presented in the core rulebook, that means that there are only 420 or so adepts that fall into their own little niches.
So we can assume that most completely mundane shit like mirrors or cows are basically out of the window, as it's highly unlikely that such obsessive individuals will pick something as mundane as mirrors or cows as something to fuel their worldview. Just because someone can make something into an obsession skill doesn't mean it's broad enough to accommodate an entire magick worldview that can create juice.
Maybe one or two people in the world might be a mirror mages tops, most likely zero. Because of that rarity I don't understand the merit of trying to really make this school. Anyone with a related obsession skill would probably fall into personamancy or epideromancy if they had to, mirrors is just absurdly specific. Not impossible maybe, but just really bizarre and unlikely.
>>46557506
>>46557506
>How the fuck would staring at yourself gain you a charge if there's no symbolic juice flowing?
Well, you'd have to be engaging in self-introspection that is meaningful in some way. It'd like engage a Self check.
>>46557506
>The simplest way I can think of inducing that self-reflection is by making them take a minor action that they wouldn't normally do.
I don't think mirror mages would -induce- self-reflection as much as seek it out and revel in it. However, adepts are very prone to ironically twisting things... so a narcissism-based schools that enforces 'self-reflection' on others, but never themselves, could certainly work.
I agree that making other people "question what their true self is and reflect on it" are good. But "take a minor action that they wouldn't normally do" is not that. Maybe "take a minor action that others PERCEIVE they would do, but they wouldn't"? But that's quite difficult...
>The taboo would probably be something like getting in the way of change.
I really don't think "self-reflection" is about change. It's about realization and perspective, about yearning for a knowledge and understanding that you can never have.
I think the taboo would be denying what others perceive is true about you. If they think it's true, you have to accept it.
Alternatively - or even additionally - it could be having your reflection broken or smashed.
>I don't understand the merit of trying to really make this school.
This is a game. Think, for a second, about why people do things or make characters in games.It's fun
>>46557164
Taboo is to break a mirror. This includes the mirror in a car, bathroom mirrors, the mirror in that duke's pocket after he got you all riled up, etc.
If you want to make it more strict, add in the clause that you also cannot damage or destroy anything that us currently reflecting you. You can't shoot someone in the eye if they are looking at you, you can't smash a car if you are close enough to be reflected by it, can't smash a computer if it's off and pointed at you, etc.
>>46557657
>You can't shoot someone in the eye if they are looking at you
If reflective surfaces count how does this effect hygiene?
>>46558344
What are you talking about? I honestly have no idea what you are implying.
>>46558603
How do they wash without breaking the surface of the water? Can they go swimming in a pool or the ocean? Do they only shit in hermetically-sealed dark rooms so the toilet can't taboo them?
>>46558663
Oh, well I didn't breaking the surface of the water to count, but even if you do you can just towelbathe, take a shower, or as you said wash in a room dark enough. That's a pretty crazy adept behavior right there.
>>46558693
Yes, this is perfect adept behavior.
>>46557657
I think this is great.
>>46558663
>>46558693
I think it would only count if they can see the reflection being broken. Like, shitting in a toilet would be fine, so long as you didn't watch the water get broken. Still makes washing a very risky business. And it's kind of perfect that mirror mages will generally look like shit because they don't wash regularly.
Now that the Sleepers are a shadow of what they used to be, what/who is keeping magick hidden from the public eye?
>>46561289
there's that "thin blue line" group that's mentioned
If any of you guys are getting that KS backer reward where you get to pitch ideas to go in one of the books you should definitely submit some stuff from these threads.
>>46561472
I doubt there's any on here, there were only ten available and they're gone already
>>46561289
I think that there's a few thngs. Yes, the Sleepers might be reduced in power, but they're still definitely around. Then there's other cabals and groups that have almost as much interest keeping things quiet, like the Thin Blue Line, as the other guy mentioned. Then there's the fact that magick is inherently self-silencing. Any "rational" (for as rational as OU people get) realises that they're better off functioning in the dark, rather than letting the kind of lunatics who think it's a good idea to poke the sleeping tiger do what they want.
Witch-hunts are bad for everyone.
And besides all that, the threat of the Sleepers still exists. Yes, they're reduced, but anyone who knows anything knows they're still out there. Watching.
>>46561289
Does everyone know the Sleepers are reduced?
Charge for me!
>>46568883
Is this a new thing? Charges for bumping?
Anyway, a question for everyone... who here has read book 3? And if you have, what's the part you're more excited to fit into a campaign?
I'm definitely aiming to have an Unfamiliar or two alongside the worst Adepts... and Taggers caught my eye for some reason, as something very interesting.
>>46570247
>charges for bumping
We tried to make an adept school out of it in the last thread but it turned into something much more interesting.
Too bad these aren't old enough to be mechanomancer material. I wonder if there isn't some other way to sneak them into the setting.
>>46573754
Simple. Each sheep is created from phone-junk. Each phone had to have its last message being the sounds of someone dying, or the last phone call somebody made immediately before dying, such as telling a loved one they are getting on the airplane now, and later that airplane crashing into the sea.
And I know some people won't agree with me on this, but I like Unknown Armies to have mysteries within mysteries. Just because there are adepts, avatars, and rituals doesn't mean there aren't weirder people out there who can do magical shit for seemingly no reason, or they have made their own sort of 'school' out of a simple talent.
Now the only question is, what do the phone sheep actually do?
>>46574045
Some sort of symbolic relationship to what actual sheep do, probably.
Sheep graze, and you shear them for wool. So maybe these sheep "graze" on communication lines (either telephone lines between poles, or the ones buried below ground, or wireless signals in the air, even) and you can "shear" them to glean some information.
So how much info is there on the Cruel Ones or whatever the fuck the things in the afterlife besides demons is there?
>>46576396
I've always assumed the Cruel Ones weren't real in the first place.
>>46576586
Why? Would a demon really lie?
>>46576396
I think there's pretty much none. Fun theory - they're demons that survived the transition from one reboot of the universe to the next. Their very existence is suffering, as the nature of the universe always changes enough to basically create endless agony for them...
They hide in the astral realm, the ethereal realm, as much as possible. They preserve secrets about the afterlife because, the more the afterlife is known, the closer it becomes to 'reality'... and they have to live in the small space between them. If the afterlife and the living world were to become one and the same (through knowledge of the afterlife), then their kingdom would become very small.
The reason they don't walk the earth like demons do is because it causes them pain. They have enough power that they can manipulate the universe from their thrones in limbo.
Or something like that.
>>46576586
>>46577864
I thought it was always very heavily implied that the cruel ones were the past world's archetypes now acting as guardians or Astral entites.
I personally enjoy the idea because making the cruel ones very eldritch and strange, but still coming from a human background. The last world is completely different from ours, though they built our world. Imagine a culture totally different from Western rationalism and Eastern tradition, that's what a single culture from the crazy past world would be. Imagine how insane their archetypes would be.
>>46579100
Yeah, that's a lot better actually.
Does anybody remember the identity petite that let someone hex people?
There are no identities that have that power. What idea tutu would have one? Seems pretty powerful for a built in ability.
>>46580872
Hexing is covered in the new rules. It'd be a paranormal identity, with the ability "Vague Harm". One of the example names for it is literally "Hexing".
Is it just me or are proxies way too big a deal to be lumped in with gutter magick? Personally I'd be inclined to scratch that and make it ritual-only like in previous editions.
>>46581535
Gonna agree. Technically, it still -is- a ritual, but it's one that doesn't require charges or anything, just five symbolic objects.
>>46581679
Restricting access also makes proxy rituals a great macguffin. I'm thinking about including a cult/society organised around one that causes proxies to age in the place of the original caster and is set up like an MLM pyramid scheme in my next UA sandbox.
>>46581535
No actually, I like basic proxies of a minor level being allowed as gutter magick. It's both a good (or mostly, the only) defense against hostile magick and creatures, feels like vodoo, its subtle and mystical. I think it works really well actually.
>>46582205
Basic proxies of a minor level, yeah.
Proxies that deflect death and shit? That doesn't seem very gutter magick-y.
>>46582228
Well I would limit them there.
With that being said, I do think gutter mages should be able to create some minor level artifacts though, give them the ability to hex people indirectly with that Vague Harm s little bit and there you go, perfect chaos mages.
>>46583303
Agreed. I'd really like to see some more guildlines on gutter magick rituals, nothing prescriptive but some neat little elements that players without a background in that area can use as a primer to springboard ideas off of.
>>46583726
What kind of guidelines?
>>46584518
Well, I guess I'd be angling for notes on some possible paradigms gutter magicians might employ to shape their ritual crafting: voodoo, chaos magick, homeopathy, etc - lensed through UAs post-modernism. I'm definitely not saying that any of these things should be restrictions but some underlying meat would be helpful to goose the creativity of players that need a little jump start.
Aside from that the objectives rules provide good guidance on the scale of efforts required for particular effects and something similar would be useful in getting players and GMs on the same page with how much they need to invest to get the other effects. Ideally this would also open the door for applying the same effects on a broader scale with significantly increased investment and effort: whammy the IPO of a rival's tech company and so on. A system of player/GM haggling, in which the player lays out their intentions and the GM offers them incentives for going the extra mile with certain elements would be great, but I'm not entirely sure what that would look like just yet.
Given that one of the core underlying themes of UA is 'what are you willing to do to get what you want?' it seems pretty desirable to get that front and center. Thoughts?
>>46585252
On second thought the broader scale effects probably wouldn't mesh well with the objectives rules. The rest still stands though.
>>46570247
Noo. That isn't a thing.
Why would you say that?Seriously. Don't mention it!Ever.
>>46585252
This seems great. Why not try to has it out ourselves?
>>46588210
Hash it out, I mean.
>>46588634
no drugs discussion pls
>>46588120
What?
>>46588210
Okay, I'll think about the details while I'm at work. For those of you who've any ideas or who have GMd or played relevant characters: how much and what kind of effort do you think is reasonable to get the gutter magick effects? Should there be a broader stratification of benefits and penalties than the -20/-10/+10/+20% banding (ie. do something really special and success gets upgraded a level - regular to matched to crit - or vice versa for penalties when something is really half-assed)? Can anyone think of player-GM negotiating systems from other games that we could crib from? I'd particularly like to avoid a system that incentivises the player to lowball the GM to Goldilocks price their way into cheaper bennies and easier to buy-off penalities; maybe alternating ritual aspect selection and then a shorter negotiation?
>>46585252
Alright, here are some 'styles' of gutter magick rituals, based on various sources that come to mind quickly:
>Cartomancy
The most easily available lens for glimpsing the machinations of the Invisible Clergy is a deck of cards.The tarot is the most powerful, being the most directly connected to the archetypes, but the average Poker deck will work. Any other forms of cards - like Uno decks - can work as -symbols- of cartomancy, but aren't themselves capable of cartomancy.
When people imagine Tarot, they imagine laying out cards in a pattern, typically a cross, and reading their futures from it. But in fact, the strongest way to divine through cartomancy is through games. There are many theories about why this is... some think the universe is just a game, after all, so the best way to determine how it works is also through a game. Others think that games just capture the mixture of randomness and motivation, entropy and order, that make up the universe. And there's the idea that games involve a fundamental human component that just drawing cards doesn't.
Whatever the case, cartomancy rituals typically work best when played in the form of a game. These rituals can often give Vague Information, Specific Information, and when competing against another and winning, Influence.
The basic cartomancy ritual obviously needs a deck of cards, but is also needs a specific set of rules, and a set of conditions. These symbols typically reflect the suits of the deck, and the nature of the competitors. For example, candles can stand in for a wand (fire), glasses of drinks for cups, cigarettes for swords, and poker chips for coins. (Poker chips were invented for this very reason.)
Continued...
>>46595819
This is enough to produce a ritual that will glean information about the universe at random, but to produce a ritual directed towards a player or players, well, it's like a game of poker - something has to be put on the line. Every player that contributes something of personal worth to their pot (an heirloom, a keepsake, etc.) now has their personal future, their soul, placed into the game.
Some serious rituals - beyond the scope of gutter magick - leverage this in nasty ways. Some games where you put your soul on the line, you don't come out with it. But in gutter magick, the mojo needed to enforce those kinda bets is simply not there... so these stakes are quite low. It's a personal investment, but if you lose it's like you had a bad day, not like you had a bad death.
Simply put, anyone who puts their soul on the line gets a chance to divine their future. In a game among friends, this is useful no matter who wins. Why play with a neutral party, or even an enemy? Well, genuine competition seems to produce better results. Among friends, no genuine competition can ever truly be produced, so no powerful divination can be gleaned.
These games often have arcane rulesets. That's important. Simply playing Poker or Go Fish is not enough to produce a true ritual. You might find some extremely vague hints in the cards, but at this level of distance from the archetypes, that's more -you- than the cards.
To truly get Vague Information, Specific Information, or Influence over someone, you have to be playing a different game, a game intimately connected to the archetypes. Games like Three Threes, Assumption, and so on, those are where results get real.
Rules-wise, if you enter a game of cartomancy, you might have to roll against others in abilities such as Lie, Notice, and sometimes Knowledge, Connect, and Status. (Violence won't work - these games want true skill, not force or coercion.)
Continued...
>>46595958
If you win, you either get a Vague Information related to your future, or a Specific Information related to your future connected to the 'personal item' you put into the pot. (That Vague Information is also likely to be related as well.)
If you were playing for Influence, you also get to Influence whoever you were targeting.
If you were playing against neutral parties, you get +5% to these rolls. If you were playing against an enemy, you get +10% to these rolls.
If you LOSE, then whatever relationship is most directly connected to your 'personal item' immediately loses 10%. The stakes have to be high in order to get good results, right?
What would be a good introduction scenario for players who have never encountered Unknown Armies but who are familiar with Nemesis, CoC, DG, Laundry, Dread, and Don't Rest Your Head? Something that shows off the game in a session without requiring a deeper understanding of the power structure before playing it...
and
If you happened to find the old setting more compelling, would you keep playing with new rules and old setting, or does it all go together? Not having read it yet this isn't a preference, just a neutral question.
>>46570247
Take an Unfamiliar, add in a terrible Agrimancer. Let the phrase "That'll do pig. That'll do." become so much worse.
>>46598873
Ha, great idea.
>>46597022
It's easy to move schools to the new edition, IMO. Some stat-boosts need changing though.
This post is meaningless.
So does new Unknown Armies have minor schools?
I've always liked the thought of minor magick schools, like seeing something in its infancy. It might be more interesting if in the future they could grow into a legit adept school, but as of right now they're pretty limited.
>>46603541
It does mention it, yes. And you can easily make your own school. They made it very easy in this edition to mechanically begin conceptualizing a school.
>>46570247
I just loved the Jesus Christ Advisory Board. Because it's just such an absurd, bizarre concept and I love the idea of players realising, "Wait, all these Jesuses are working together?"
>>46597022
In answer to your first question, the introductry scenario in UA 2e, Bill in Three Persons, is a pretty decent summary of the setting. Doesn't require any advance knowledge and is simple enough to run.
To the second, I've not played it yet, but I think I prefer the new system to the old. It's just tied together quite nicely. Obviously need to see how it plays out first, though. There'd be nothing stopping you running the old setting with the new rules, or the new setting with the old rules, or a monstrous hybrid of the new and old settings with the new rules. As >>46599872 says, most of the schools are easy enough to change, though you may want to give some of the old schools ways to play with and affect the Shock Gauges more.
And now I want to throw some sort of comic book as an artifact, that, as it is read, creates a conspiracy in the real world based around the readers' paranoia and fears.
>>46603541
I think one way to represent that would be to make it a supernatural identity. It just gives you one ability, but you could flavour it around being a nascent school. Just not properly empowered with the fullness of obsession and madness just yet.
>>46605196
>>46603541
Authentic Thaumaturge would work
>>46595819
>>46595958
>>46596074
Very cool, reminds me of 'Last Call'.
>>46533680
If we're talking Unknown Armies inspiration, Carnivale should definitely be on everyone's watch-list.
And maybe it's just the way I imagine it, but Chris Morris' Jam is what all unknown Armies TV should look like.
I hope UA3 gets a good campaign book.
To Go is one of my favorite things ever published for an RPG.
Also, I missed it in my quick browse, but what happened to the Max Attak? Couldn't keep it together after whatever went down on 3/3/03?
>>46606859
The leader/co-founder of Max Attak, Derek Jackson is listed as a rumored member of the Sleeper's 'committee'it's also suggested that he died before joining them.
>>46606842
https://youtube.com/watch?v=YNmZ8bqkXvw
Fulminaturges in a nutshell.
>>46606894
Ah, thank you.
Can I assume this thread will still be up come tomorrow or should I wait until the next one comes out? I ask because I'm working on a few homebrew adepts/mystickal identities and would like to post them to give people ideas or maybe even receive some feedback.
This would include mirror magic by the way.
>>46607594
Don't worry some guy keeps bumping it. I made this thread days ago and it's somehow still up.
>>46607637
Not that guy, but here you go.charge denied.
>>46606904
God Chris Morris is perfect.
Anyone know any good UA websites for GM resources or campaign reports?
>>46609550
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1J-vdbp66E
>>46610393
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UF8gS8HwPAM
>>46610406
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZP1dnCocl4
>>46610420
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeRqnZ1yT_Y
>>46610438
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZQmQwUKOLs
>>46610452
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c706ibJgtnY
>>46610466
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkCj0_-9ZmE
>>46610483
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDTqh1U8izw
>>46610497
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1idMFbHqaWA
>>46610512
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UV5kZi0Udpg
>>46610520
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhL2uox0zj0
>>46610537
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGG7CSZUIMI
>>46610546
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mV-JbImXtu0
>>46610554
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6467rL5yDU
>>46610564
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-bDqWxMNxQ
>>46610581
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkOEyI4NTP0
>>46609550
The podcast You Don't Meet at an Inn did a short UA campaign a while ago that is pretty good.
>>46610596
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_ytnVUhvoI
>>46610601
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBm1c_7tnCk
>>46610618
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qNhkw_Ah4U
>>46610631
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yx1a5swwqXc
>>46610642
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3ilzeGIESY
>>46610650
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1axRaRFo_E
>>46610668
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyPkDP3xXRY
>>46610686
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8ULDcKb8Q4
>>46610696
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVo4WRaLaL4
>>46610816
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nzl7YrR7e4
>>46610833
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ym4uVS-5tSA
>>46610840
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5lf22lyQ0U
>>46610850
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwZ6RStN4Aw
>>46610866
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jw37gQlUUOc
>>46610875
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VhFQEDgrWk
>>46610885
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2ersqIlkCo
>>46610894
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvWY3JOVwX0
>>46610904
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RziBBIfodU
>>46610920
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yx6eg25_fyk
>>46610927
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCh3KoQTDVg
>>46610948
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPOkuDm7LtM
>>46610962
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOYPjjxpX-g
>>46610975
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvUJHX0EG4c
>>46610989
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5m0WVhYMX4
>>46611004
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhNMrPIfcT0
>>46611021
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sbrpxmq8yk
>>46611033
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlbeG7lcgXs
>>46611044
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxUPYvXZag8
>>46611059
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TU5rtGDaE9Y
>>46611077
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoFeZ-_MVFE
