/btg/ is dead, long live /btg/!
Deep Penetration Edition
Old Thread: >>46440351
===================================
Combat Manuals: Mercenaries (final build)
http://www.mediafire.com/download/62qpwm49e3pjdgn/E-CAT35260_Combat_Manual_Mercenaries.pdf
Touring the Stars Compilation
http://www.mediafire.com/download/p7u9jvxir86862t/Touring_the_Stars_Compilation_%28ver._0.1%29.pdf
===================================
>/btg/ does a TRO:
http://builtforwar.blog(not spam)spot.com/
>How do I do this Against the Bot thing?
http://pastebin.com/pE2f7TR5
>Overview of the major factions?
http://bg.battletech.com/universe/great-houses/
http://bg.battletech.com/universe/the-clans/
http://bg.battletech.com/universe/other-powers/
>How do I find out what BattleMechs a faction has?
http://masterunitlist.info/
>Map of /btg/ players (WIP):
https://www.zeemaps.com/map?group=1116217&add=1
>BattleTech Introductory Info and PDFs
http://bg.battletech.com/?page_id=400
>Rookie guides
http://pastebin.com/HZvGKuGx
>Sarna.net - BattleTech Wiki
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Main_Page
>Megamek - computer version of BattleTech. Play with AI or other players
http://megamek.info/
Unit Designing Softwares
>SSW Mech Designer
http://www.solarisskunkwerks.com/
>MegaMek Lab
http://megameklab.sourceforge.net/
>BattleTech IRC
#battletech on irc.rizon.net
>PDF Folders
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/9q792hobnbpw3/Battletech
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/sdckg6j645z4j/Battletech
So how about them Lyrans
>>46478660
Did someone say penetration?
>>46478739
>>46478739
>>46478776
You might say I like them a bit.
>>46478739
Best mechs, worst fluff.
>>46478739
I wish I could paint chequerboard patterns decently.
>>46478671
Yes
>>46479022
Well I was trying to decide on a faction and playstyle I liked, and with all the options it was taking a while.
So I decided to take my mind off it for a bit and watch some JAV. After a bit it hit me: the best mechs are like the best JAV idols. They're either DFC or have cowtits, there's no middle ground.
And what faction prefers lights and heavies (or assaults) and not mediums? The Dracs!
So I decided to load up on Panthers, Jenners, Dragons and Quickdraws.
Also because they're Japs.
>>46478739
Love their mechs, meh on the faction. Luckily, the suns have access to many of their mechs
>>46478739
So in all seriousness, Lyrans have a really excellent unit selection. It's just that apparently in the fluff they are hamstrung by incompetent leadership on the upper levels and can't accomplish anything without a massive infusion of GLORIOUSDAVIONPENIS. Plenty of viable playstyles other than Wallowsteel.
>>46480171
Which is why lyran mercs are objectively best
>>46480171
>Davion penis
>implying Adam Steiner wasn't their best Archon
>>46480300
All my merc units eventually do a contract through the Commonwealth to score some sweet rides.
>>46480300
>>46480506
Speaking of mercs, what are the names of your commands?
Just curious what /btg/ calls their merc units since I'm sure most of us either main mercs or have a merc side campaign.
>>46480627
Pretty generic actually.
Wildcards
Richard's Roughnecks
Have Mech Will Travel (named years before the new combat manual came out though)
I think the tank crews and subcontracted unit's have a little more spice though.
Salad Shooters
Dawn's Dirge
Andurien Drifters
New Roland Gunslingers
Broken Swords
Luna II Avengers
Hoolihan's Hooligans
And the tech teams are always fun.
Spit & Bailing Wire
Endless Duct Tape
Tequila Drinkers
Oil and Blood
Real Flyboys
Spirit of Canopus
Trusty Scabs
Dawn's Ratchet
Double Duty (nickname always used for pressing mechwarriors/pilots/crews into astech maintenance teams)
>>46480627
Usually it's just "X's Ys". Pictured is one of mine. When AtB rolled my OC's name, I just had to make a bad pun.
My current command's called Tiān Dì Lián (Heaven and Earth Company), though. It was started by a group of Capellan escapees/expats who're interested in giving Romano Liao a good old kicking. Currently hanging around in Oriente, bloodying the noses of Cappie raiders.
>>46480627
I've played more than a few over the years, but here's a few:
White's Pale Riders
Kowalski's Winged Hussars
Martinez's Manhunters
The Black Death Spirits
>>46479477
I find your logic to be flawless.sauce/more?
Hey BTG, last year I was thinking about pic related-
>>46481634
I'm not sure I understand what's going on with that image
>>46481634
-and I finally got around to polishing it up.
>>46481655
Sorry, meant to post the one *right* after the other, but hit a hiccup.
>>46481634
>>46481816
Mind explaining?
>>46482128
Last summer, I noticed that the Marshall stats & fluff looked an awful lot like the Merlin stats and fluff. I also noticed that the Merlin looked an awful lot like somebody tried to rebuilt the Super Griffin (originally done under BattleDroids construction rules in Tales of the Black Widow) under 2nd edition rules. So I rolled them all into a single 'Mech.
Is that all you meant?
>>46482387
That explains half of it, but how does all that translate into an illegal LAM?
>>46482441
Oh, that's to replicate the original Super Griffin's performance as closely as possible.
>>46480315
Information is Ammunition
>>46480627
X's Y's, usually.
Stradioti was a fun one, sadly I never got around to giving all the command staff Albanian names.
>>46480627
>early years
Iron Legion
Nocturne
Blake's Blitz
White Lightning
>more recently
I've made a few units but not actually named them because they've never hit the table so it's never mattered, honestly. But likely something fairly generic-sounding, except my pirate groups. They would be flashier. Also I had one lance called the Headhunters; they all have hatchets.
>>46481374
>Kowalski's Winged Hussars
Got any stories to share about this bunch?
>>46482737
Glorious nostalgia... Mmm.
>>46482737
This ranks alongside this one as one of the great axioms of military thought.
>>46484405
>>46482737
Indeed these are words to live by.
Here are a few more.
>>46484625
>>46484405
"The only good Clanner is a dead Clanner, and the only thing better is a dying Clanner that can tell you where to find Camelot Command"
>>46484857
Rule number one in the Infantry.
>>46478739
Can't help but like an industrial faction.
Not sure how years of military setbacks haven't affected their military thinking beyond technology however.
Usually when I hear a faction compared to Germany it's "combat prowess" not "combat incompetence".
Still a nice touch though.
>>46485614
German military with French leadership?
>>46485614
>Not sure how years of military setbacks haven't affected their military thinking beyond technology however.
Flanderization.
If they changed it the grogs would riot.
>>46486174
modern german military would also work. big focus on high tech solutions and crap training at every level
>>46486494
Wasn't aware the "German Sword" had grown dull in the current age.
>>46486554
They get it from the Americans.
Are the Federated Suns and Lyran Commonwealth still close?
I read that Julian Davion was in the Commonwealth for a time giving their beleaguered military a hand against the Clans.
>>46487046
Limited cooperation. I remember that there were a couple cooperative designs, but nothing major. And now both of them are too busy trying to survive to help the other.
post AU ideas, extrapolate from others'
Trent Arian survives assassination attempt.
Azami successfully break away from the Combine in the Jihad, ally with the Republic.
Thomas Marik really dies in the bomb.
>>46487039
Not really. It's more without the Russians right on the border, budget cuts and stagnation in leadership has lead to an increasingly crappy military with a mess of an organisation (dicked around with to make cherry-picking units for adventures to places like Afghanistan for the sake of 'me too!' rather than cohesive combined-arms), and all the problems of poor training and morale such as lax maintenance on all those high-tech toys are still building up, and the limited budget going on fancy shit that isn't needed rather than replacement of the un-sexy but utterly important staples of military hardware that have been hanging around since well before the Berlin wall fell.
Germany would probably struggle to 1v1 Poland at this point.
>>46487705
Takashi Kurita does not issue the Death to Mercenaries edict.
>>46487705
Well I've always wondered what would have happened of Maximillian Liao's gambit during the 4th Succession War to cripple the Davion assault had succeeded.
>>46487763
>>46487793
Concord of Kapteyn actually somewhat holds, resulting in non-Fedcom powers not being totally impotent in early BT history.
>>46487705
Sun-Tzu actually marries Isis Marik.
>>46487705
To piggyback on the end of this >>46487793 I also wonder what would have happened if the Free Worlds and Capellans had just let the Clans grind through their enemies (FedCom and Combine) or had struck at FedCom when they were busy with the Clans.
>>46487870
She has a moderating influence on him and the pro-Chinese XIN SHENG is toned down into a more general cap nationalism thing. Russian and the tiny number of scottish caps are noticed and acknowledged, and the cap worlds near the FWL border begin being less oppressive.
>>46487974
Not an absorption of the CC as a member state of the FWL?
>>46487705
>Thomas Marik really dies in the bomb.
Or alternatively, what if the Thomas Marik we saw was the real Thomas Marik and the Master was Myndo Waterly or some other Blakist.
To be honest I never really even saw what the fake/real Thomas subplot even added to the story, maybe since we never got novels on it and it came at us in the very end of the Jihad plot.
>>46487705
Vanura Centrella seduces Richard Cameron and ends up as the "special advisor to the First Lord" instead of Stefan Amaris.
>>46482387
>I also noticed that the Merlin looked an awful lot like somebody tried to rebuilt the Super Griffin (originally done under BattleDroids construction rules in Tales of the Black Widow) under 2nd edition rules.
Actually, the Merlin was the construction example even back in Battledroids.
>>46478739
I'm glad you are back :)
>>46488018
To create yet another reason the FWL falls apart?
>>46488055
I'm sorry, that's an ancient picture.
>>46488061
The setup was poor.
Or alternatively, what if they did something with the forgotten Successor State besides 'lol civil wars'. A real story or something, I guess.
>>46488088
Now I'm sad :(
>>46487763
>Takashi issues a Death to Dragoons edict instead
>Instead of getting bogged down in the 4th SW by assaulting three planets, Takashi hires the Waco Rangers and provides them with material support to harass the Dragoons
>Hanse faces a stronger and less distracted Draconis Combine
Where to take it from here?
>>46488493
Sorry anon.
>>46488529
MIIO scores a coup and the DCMS succumbs to lead poisoning since MIIO was goddamn near psychic in that era.
>>46488583
Unfortunately for them ROM is suddenly immune to psychic powers and kicks their ass all over the sphere, resulting in the total disintegration of FC C&C due to the absurd amount of misinformation added. This prevents them from invading the DC in any sort of organized fashion, and results in several instances of FC units invading FC worlds by accident.
>>46487876
>implying the FWL wouldn't finally crush the Capellan menace
desu I have literally never believed the setting of BT since the FLW and Fed Suns didn't ally to crush the Capellans.
>>46488732
Lyrans played the Suns like good goys to keep them from allying with the FWL.
>>46488732
I was under the impression the Free Worlds League was too busy minding the Lyran threat to worry about the Capellans in detail.
>>46488644
>>46488644
The only way that could happen is if Hanse was a ROM plant.
On a related note, Hanse is now a ROM plant in this mess of an AU.
>yfw the FWL is held down by the writers
Why do they hate freedom and representative government so much /tg/
Since there's a bunch of FWL posting, I might as well ask:
How can I play a large FWL force (battalion or so) that feels like the FWL?
Particularly interested in how their use of combined arms differs from the Davions, or Capellans.
>>46488031
Well, there wouldn't be an outright coup; there'd be a slow degredation over time due to degenerate tranny influence (much like the US). Ideally, that would lead to a complete breakdown of the League and we'd have 2 or 3 alliances of Houses each trying to simultaneously overthrow the Hegemony, while simultaneously getting stabbed in the back by the Periphery nations (allied to the Hegemony, in the case of the Rim Worlds and MoC, or just to murder perfidious Davions, in the case of the TC). I'd be OK with this as a setting.
Alternatively, we get either a peaceful game in which there's little or no war and thus Battletech doesn't exist. I'm OK with that, too, since it would mean this fan base doesn't exist either.
>>46489129
>How can I play a large FWL force (battalion or so) that feels like the FWL?
Forget everything you need to play. That way you can have the true and authentic experience of being an FWL writer.
>>46489230
I actually like pretty much all parts of the "Centrellas replace Amaris" idea. It wouldn't be "BattleTech", but it's certainly interesting and IMO worthy of an AU. A slow corruption of the SLDF into a force that the other Houses feel forced to overthrow feels more "legitimate" than the essentially overnight, multi-system Amaris Coup. I also like the idea of all 5 Great Houses making and breaking alliances with each other while simultaneously waging war against the SLDF. You'd have to do something about the WarShip issue, though. As it stands, the SLDF can defeat every House and every Periphery power - simultaneously - by saying "fuck it all" and being OK with total war being waged from orbit.
Oh, and +1 for the "degenerate tranny" meme. That hasn't been here in the last several threads, so I'm sure everyone appreciates its inclusion.
>>46489129
>How can I play a large FWL force (battalion or so) that feels like the FWL?
Use FWL vees.
>Particularly interested in how their use of combined arms differs from the Davions, or Capellans.
Well, we don't actually know much about it because the Davionistas stole the "combined arms" hat when they decided to be best at everything.
>>46489398
>breaking alliances with each other while simultaneously waging war against the SLDF. You'd have to do something about the WarShip issue, though. As it stands, the SLDF can defeat every House and every Periphery power - simultaneously - by saying "fuck it all" and being OK with total war being waged from orbit.
I never understand why you SDLF worshipping faggots are so dedicated tot his being an issue in an ALTERNATE FUCKING UNIVERSE
CampaignAnon was sperging out about it a few threads ago and could not seem to wrap his head around this not being such a problem from the get-go
What is it with you people?
Last night I was talking about a time traveler accidentally going back in time and killing Amaris ISP article. He ends up making it worse because of how Amaris' actions were exaggerated by later pundits.
>>46488286
Just curious, what about the setup for fake Thomas Marik was poor? We had hints of it for years, back when Victor killed Joshua Marik. It was nearly as long a setup as the Wobblies themselves, and it was constantly alluded to that the real Thomas Marik was alive (hell, they come out with it in a Stackpole book. I think it's Prince of Havoc) and that he's a major player in the Word of Blake.
Where the hell are the rules for warship construction?
>>46489601
TacOps for the weapons, StratOps for the ship.
>>46489601
StratOps?
>>46489621
>TacOps for the weapons, StratOps for the ship.
shit cgl get it together
>>46489559
The very beginning of it was moronic. Victor ordering blood tests because... ? Then it being picked up and dropped in a handful of books in a couple sentences, pretty much only by Victor & Friends who proceed to do nothing and pretend it isn't a thing. No FWL PoV on it at all to boot.
I realize the novels aren't high literature but still the setup was like amateur hour in lit, and the payoff hampered by the polished turd that was the Jihad (due to handicapping by Wizkids and DA).
>>46489751
IIRC the actual aerospace combat rules are spread over 3 books.
>>46488529
The Dracs are still fucked. The Lyans are running roughshod over them against Theodore, and despite the number of regiments being dropped on the Capellans the Suns still had plenty to spare.
This could arguably turn out worse for the Dracs than the canon 4th SW since Hanse basically ignored that border knowing Takashi would do nothing but hunt the Dragoons.
>>46489515
The SLN has almost as many McKennas as everyone else has WarShips.
This is a HUGE FUCKING PROBLEM, and you're the retard for constantly saying "Well, that won't be an issue if we just ignore it and pretend it doesn't matter, will it?"
>>46489622
Strategic Operations.
But seriously anon, just download AeroTech 2, it's so much more concise and nothing changed between it and the current rules any way.
>>46489129
>Particularly interested in how their use of combined arms differs from the Davions, or Capellans.
OK, aside from my snark answer earlier, I reviewed the Marik House Book (FASA 1622), since the bulk of the "Marik = combined arms" stuff is from that era. That's the only "period" source we have, for all that the actual numbers from it have been retconned. I can cite a page number for each claim I make below, if you really insist.
The answer isn't given, but it can be extrapolated from available evidence. First, every formation has a different doctrine, which means that every formation has the potential to use combined-arms differently. Keep that in mind.
The FWLM tends to be a lighter-weight, faster force than other Houses. It's armor forces also tend to be lighter, being made mostly of Galleons. It's a good mobile defense force taking advantage of interior lines and home ground, but not so good at attacking. Given the units available to them, it seems most likely that they would use vehicles as aggressive recon units. Once the enemy is located, they would set a base of fire with their heavy, long-range units (AWSs, WHMs, Pike, Behemoths) and their explicit mobile artillery batteries. Lighter formations of mediums backed by Grasshoppers make slashing attacks to the flanks. Finally, the FWLM has a greater preponderance of integrated ASFs and LAMs (especially these; entire battalions) into their formations than other Houses. LAMs back up the cavalry attacks and/or act as a super-mobile reserve, while air support hits anyone who strings themselves out trying to pursue the cavalry forces.
The problem is that this is operational-level stuff, and doesn't lend itself super-well to the tabletop, and DEFINITELY not to a game without morale or other "friction" rules.
>>46489515
>>46489515
>What is it with you people?
The concept of an AU is that it's exactly the same as the *actual* universe, up until the point of divergence where it spins off from the events as described in the canon material. Therefore, as the SLDF has a ludicrous edge in WarShips BEFORE the point of divergence (Cameron being "adopted" by Centrella instead of Amaris), they'd still have that edge once the AU starts. Therefore, that given circumstance would need to somehow be dealt with. It's not impossible to deal with as a writer - although just having fleets of McKennas be devastated by fleets composed of Wagon Wheels and Pintos is probably not an actual solution - but it DOES need to be dealt with somehow. That's all.
However, if your point is to deny that the issue even exists...then you're wrong. Completely and objectively so.
>>46489787
I was contacted and asked/told explicitly not to combine the areospace stuff into a single PDF. Sorry. I shouldn't have talked about doing it here - I should have just done it and asked for forgiveness later.
>>46489832
I might be wrong but that description of combined arms doctrine reminds me of the Wehrmacht in 1939-1942.
Which in turn reminds me of the cheesy WWII conversation some BT characters had in one of the Stackpole novels.
>>46489880
Mediafire anon here
They never contacted me :^)
Funny enough I had exactly the same idea, good for us ️
Anyone want to generate a Steiner opposition force for me?
For the player force I have:
>Hermes II -5S (BV 857)
>Wasp -3M (BV 394)
>Griffin -3M (BV 1521)
>Phoenix Hawk -3M (BV 1307)
So a BV of around 4080 for the Steiner lance. If anyone is interested. Tech up to 3058 is good.
>>46489832
>"friction"
what?
>>46490170
Hyper-entropy based warfare, kid.
>>46490106
Thank you for doing it, then. Where in the gigantic mediafire link is the download for that PDF located? *I'd* certainly like a copy.
>>46490080
>I might be wrong but that description of combined arms doctrine reminds me of the Wehrmacht in 1939-1942.
Well, pretty much all combined-arms doctrine is going to be similar to that. Establish a base of fire, flank, hit advancing units with artillery, and hit upcoming reinforcements with airpower (or anyone who gets strung out chasing your fast units). As long as units are capable of doing those things, and moving through appropriate terrain (can't have air power without flying units...), and capable of communication with one another, there isn't a better conceptual doctrine. There's always stuff you can add TO it (political stuff, simultaneous warfare on logistical base, etc), but the core doctrine comes from that era (and the Spanish Civil War), and so it's always going to be reminiscent of that.
>>46489832
The problem with this is that they have no way to deal with the Lyrans, who will just drop assault mechs into all their cities and laugh at them.
Well, maybe not exactly that, but you get the idea.
>>46490229
I meant the emphasis on lighter mobile units being supported by arty and close air support. Reminded me of how the panzerwaffe was all lighter tanks in the early years.
>Employer offers free repair and resupply parts
>Manufactured by Quickscell
>>46490170
Read Clauswitz. Here's a good starting point:
http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/clauswtz/clwt000b.htm
>>46490184
It would be Satan's sauna!
>>46490250
>The problem with this is that they have no way to deal with the Lyrans
Outmaneuver and out-logistics them. The fact the Lyran-Free Worlds border was pretty static for so long indicates the FWLM knew how to handle the LCAF, even despite being hamstrung by politics and provincial issues.
>>46489821
>>46489880
I see the problem now. You guys are stuck in the mentality of "Thing X happens, everything else is exactly the same, we end up with Y"
I approach it from the angle, and I think this is what most people developing AUs do, that "To get result Z, I make change X. Does that get me closer to Z, and if not, what else do I need to change"
So where you guys go "OK, the SLDF still has a McKenna per planet" I say "They never had that many McKennas"
You know what would be fun? The FWL using Deep Battle.
>>46490318
>So where you guys go "OK, the SLDF still has a McKenna per planet" I say "They never had that many McKennas"
Then the Star League dies without Amaris having a say in it. The only reason the SLDF had a chance was because they were big enough to take any 3 Houses on at once, and probably fend off a fourth.
>>46490314
>>46490250
To amplify, the FWL seems to have a strategic/operational doctrine of spoiling raids, preemptive strikes, counterattacks, etc. They either hit first and throw off the Lyrans, or let the Lyrans into a pocket that they contain while launching counteroffensives against the rest of the Steiner border. In fact in many ways the FWL doctrine is defensively German (or Israeli) moreso than the Steiner WALLOWSTEEL
>>46490360
They kinda already do imo, although the universe never really explores things above the small-unit level.
>maximum file size is 8 MB
Well, so much for my attempt to upload educational PDFs.
>>46490464
based Israeli Defense Force
>>46490464
What file is it?
>>46490360
That reminds me, I gotta finish converting FM 100-2-3 and the Soviet TOE to Battletech. Anyone got good software for making the unit symbols?
>>46490409
>I am a binary being
Protip: there is a middle ground between "SLDF rapes everyone forever" and "SLDF gets raped by everyone forever"
>>46490229
Sorry, I didn't made it yet
My lats project was compile the Touring the Stars epubs, I was more pissed at them. Don't expect it soon, though, but I promise we will have it some day
>>46490500
A whole bunch of them, actually, but I was going to put up "Balck and Mellenthin on tactics: implications for NATO doctrine" which should show up on google, and "FM 100-2-1: The Soviet Army - Operations and Tactics, 1984" first.
>>46490623
Well, I've got a sub-8MB copy of 100-2-3, so here it is.
>>46490623
Shove em somewhere and link it?
>How to love Liao? thread on OF
>You don't.
Muninn pls
>>46491407
>How to love Liao?
Very carefully.
Is there a Building Warships for Dummies out there somewhere? I have a performance profile in mind, and I'm trying to work it out for my first ship, but I have no idea what I'm doing. Are there certain tonnages that do better with certain engines at certain speeds like mechs and vees?
>>46491647
Not really. NEA probably has a decent list, but you don't have to try to optimize over canon designs, since they're all pretty badly done.
Hi everybody, I'm looking for some tactical advice, my group is doing a BattleTech tournament-style 1v1 ladder thing.
How do you best play light 'mechs against light 'mechs? I'm dogshit with light 'mechs, I prefer a heavier long range 'mech. Is it still the same simple game of trying to make sure that your probability of hitting is higher than their probability of hitting? Should I be running as far as possible to be able to get the biggest modifier?
>>46491757
I'm not really trying to optimize, but I don't want to try to make a 1.5 million ton ship try to go moderately fast if I would actually be better with a 1 million ton ship or something.
>>46491825
The way I usually duel with lights in AI is to shoot up my TH as much as I can while taking potshots and waiting to go second in initiative. Then, when I get the chance to go second, run behind them and backstab.
>>46491825
That doesn't sound like fun at all.
But if you want to win, you probably want to jam with something that has a lot of MP (preferably iJJs) and just abuse initiative.
>>46491757
Also, warship construction seems to be an ass-backwards mess, because it's asking me to decide everything before I know what I need.
>>46492100
WarShips don't have discrete classes, so pick a tonnage then go for your preferred speed. Like mechs do anyway.
So I have the intro box, 6 infantry, 6 battle armor, 2 Saladins, 2 Rommels, the battle lance, recon lance, and support lance. Planning on getting 1 or 2 more lances tomorrow. After looking at the Alpha Strike start cards in wondering if getting the Alpha Strike rule book?
>>46492166
I want to make a warships that can carry a regiment's worth of dropships. What teh fuck do I do
Since we're asking Aerotech questions, I was wondering - is it more efficient to have ASF carried by a warship, or by carrier Dropships?
>>46491905
>>46491825
In the tournament, each player is going to start off with 2 20-ton Inner Sphere 'Mech from within the years 3051 to 3085. Each 'Mech can cost a max of $3.5 mil and be at max 1000BV. The pilots are going to be average-joe 4/5. We're going to be using the Solaris Skunk Werks program.
If there is a BattleValue difference, the player with the lower value might be able to recieve a free 'mech
BattleValue difference [400-650 = Wasp WSP-3W] [651-850 = Raven RVN-3M] [851-1000 = Bombard BMB-010] [1001-1200 = Hunchback HBK-5N] [1201-1400 = Bushwacker BSW-X1] [1401+ = Battlemaster BLR-3S]
You guys wanna help me min/max my choices for entry? What would you guys pick?
>>46492249
Invest in a Potemkin, and cackle gleefully as you drown your enemies in ships. Otherwise, add 6 Docking Collars. The rules for *those* are in TacOps. But here are their limits: "Appropriate aerospace units, massing a minimum of 50,000 tons, may mount up to 1 docking hardpoint for every 50,000 tons of vessel weight (rounded up)."
>>46492265
Preferably? Dropships. More mobility. You can scatter a few Titans and support DropShips across a wider radius than one WarShip. Buuuuut... I like the idea of Carrier WarShips, even though the way bay doors work, they're shit at it compared to just having more DS.
>>46492417
where the hell are the rules for DS collar cost? Searched techManual and strat ops, even ctrl f gave me nothing.
>>46492249
Each Drop Collar is 1000 tons, so honestly, they pretty much disappear into the rounding errors of the equations unless you need 20+ Droppers on a single ship. I also recommend 1000 tons of fuel, per DropShip carried, plus between 3-6 ktons for the WarShip itself.
My suggestion is to figure out everything ELSE you want on the WarShip. Add up the minimum cargo, carried ASF complement, weapons, and DropShip Capacity, and then try some different thrust-to-weight calculations and see which one ends up with you having a remaining tonnage of close to the mass you calculated.
So if you've got 100,000 tons of *stuff* on your WarShip, you can plug in a 600,000 ton mass. It takes 255 k-tons for the Compact Core, and 39 ktons for each point of Safe Thrust. If you want your WarShip to go 4/6, that makes 156 k-tons of Engines. 156 k-tons + 255 k-tons + 100 K-tons of *stuff* is 511 k-tons. That's a good ballpark, so figure out how much SI and armor you can get out of the remaining 89 k-tons, and you're pretty much good to go.
>>46492265
Tactically? By DropShips, every time. They're easier to produce, and losses are easier to deal with.
Strategically, it's different, because you end up with issues like production bottlenecks. For example, you can have an arbitrary number of ASFs on an arbitrary number of DropShips, but with no JumpShips at all...and they're ALWAYS going to be 100% worse than having just 1 squadron of ASFs on a Vincent Mk 39, when your mission is to go attack somebody in another star system. Having a WarShip is a guarantee that your on-board ASFs will be able to go to somebody else's house and kick their teeth in.
But since the tabletop game doesn't generally deal in that level of detail (you're assumed to be able to get the things you want, or you're assumed to be able to get your forces where you need them so you can have the game in the first place), much of the advantage of WarShip-borne ASFs is lost.
>>46491647
Not really.
There are things to keep in mind:
The heavier you build it, the more mass is left over after the 45.25% tonnage that goes to the K-F drive.
The faster you go, the higher your max SI, so the higher your armour. Ass 12 AMS per arc and you become nuke-proof as well.
You can have as many weapons as you like. However, for every 20 past the "free" base of 20 weapons you mount you have to pay 10% of the arc weapon mass in fire control (so if you have 60 weapons in an arc that weigh 100 tons, you need to add 20% mass for another 20 tons in fire control).
Custom designs will almost invariably shit on canon ones, at least anything built before 3060. They devote so much mass to cargo and so little to combat-relevant stuff.
NACs are king.
>>46492249
Figure out how many DSes you need, add collars to match. Have a look at the Potemkin.
>>46492265
Carrier DSes, you can put them on more things and use them for more stuff. WSes are impressive but can't be in multiple places at once.
>>46492495
>I also recommend 1000 tons of fuel, per DropShip carried, plus between 3-6 ktons for the WarShip itself.
Wait what? Does the Warship fuel the dropships? Does it all go into one fuel pool or do I need fuel cargo? Can I transfer from fuel cargo to fuel pool?
How do I figure out minimum cargo?
Where are rules for carried ASF?
This is a clusterfuck to dive into, halp
>>46483409
it was a mixed battalion comprised of two companies of heavy cavalry mechs (twenty heavies, two assaults and a pair of griffins that were the unit's lightest mechs) and a company of fast heavy hovertanks, mostly drillsons and Fulcrums. I also had a company of motorized infantry for DropShip defense, who I like to imagine as guys on motorbikes with the classic Hussar wings on the back
Mostly took contracts with periphery states and the chaos march, places where 5/8 heavies with ER weapons could wreck face and therefor get paid big bucks.
Once, on contract for the ciricnus federation, I went up against a battalion of canopian mechs, mostly stingers and wasps and just WRECKED them, only a lance made it out, without loosing a single mech. that was pretty great.
another time, I was pirate hunting against a bunch of renegade lyrans for the TC, and since they had a demi-company of all assaults, they were causing the local militias no end of trouble. I caught them on their way out from a raid, so I ended up doubling back and catching them at their DropShip, because I had a good 30 KMPH overland sped advantage, which meant I had a solid hour lead, which let me find their DS, shoot out the landing gear, convince the crew to surrender and then ambush them when they finally showed up. sold their dead mechs to the taurians for a pile of money and kept the DropShip, it was good. ah, the joys of all 5/8 all the time
also, the maelstrom is a remarkably underrated mech
>>46492555
DSes have fuel but it's often very shitty. As in barely enough to get from one planet to another without refuelling if you're lucky.
WSes have a lot more cargo mass (usually), might as well tank off of them.
>>46492487
Tactical Operations has their cost. Welcome to why we all hate the current rulebook scheme for Aero, because they're in 3 different books.
>>46492497
>Figure out how many DSes you need, add collars to match. Have a look at the Potemkin.
*Everyone* needs the Potemkin in their life. Even if the SLDF thought it was insanely expensive and didn't build a lot of them.
>>46492555
>How do I figure out minimum cargo?
10% mass is a bare minimum, and I usually go for 12-15 if it's got a good number of collars.
>This is a clusterfuck to dive into, halp
Start with AT2, get a handle on the rules, then come to the modern books.
>>46492623
Someday I want to play with this, but then I realize that a CFNA game would be finished first:
4th Carrier Squadron
Capital Ships: (All ship names bar the Yorktown are conjecture)
SLS Yorktown (Enterprise Class Super Carrier)
SLS Battle of Britain (McKenna Class Battleship)
SLS Battle of Midway (McKenna Class Battleship)
SLS Prince of Wales (Potemkin Class Troop Cruiser)
SLS Ark Royal (Potemkin Class Troop Cruiser)
SLS Bismarck (Potemkin Class Troop Cruiser)
SLS Akagi (Potemkin Class Troop Cruiser)
SLS Kaga (Potemkin Class Troop Cruiser)
Dropships:
SLS Yorktown: 2x Pentagon (2751), 2x Titan
SLS Battle of Britain: 6x Pentagon (2751)
SLS Battle of Midway: 6x Pentagon (2751)
SLS Prince of Wales: 25x Titan
SLS Ark Royal: 25x Titan
SLS Bismarck: 12x Pentagon (2751), 12x Titan, 1x Model 96 “Elephant”
SLS Akagi: 25x Pentagon (2751)
SLS Kaga: 25x Pentagon (2751)
AeroSpace Fighters (Dropship complement included):
SLS Yorktown: 990 ASF
SLS Battle of Britain: 50 ASF
SLS Battle of Midway: 50 ASF
SLS Prince of Wales: 450 ASF
SLS Ark Royal: 450 ASF
SLS Bismarck: 216 ASF
SLS Akagi: 0 ASF
SLS Kaga: 0 ASF
Squadron Total: 2206
>>46492239
Should I get more Vees, BA, and infantry?
>>46492623
>Tactical Operations has their cost
I need a page number, I cannot find the cost. Or, I can find the 100,000 CBill cost, but I can't find where it "dramatically increases the KF Drive cost"
>>46492725
Yes. Buy GHQ shit for all your light vees. Cheaper and better quality than IWM
>>46492727
Page 158 print/160pdf of StratOps. With the rest of the costs for JumpShips and WarShips.
>>46492846
GHQ?
>>46492849Silly me, I was searching for "Docking Hardpoint" and "Dropship Collar"
Although I would have thought my search for "collar" would have found it, but it didn't, so fuck this, I'm out. Burn in hell, Aero
>>46492901
http://www.ghqmodels.com/store/military-models-modern-micro-armour.html
GHQ minis are your friend when you don't want 6 dollar scorpions, you can get most things at $12 for a pack of 5. Also better sculpt quality.
>>46492849
Sweet fucking Blake, why does the cost BLOW THE FUCK UP for a DS collar?
Holy hell.
>>46492991
It's FASAnomics, I ain't gotta explain shit.
>>46492991
The collar is extending the KF field over the DS; that's most of what it's there to do.
Anything having to do with KF drives is expensive as sin.
>>46488032
Hmmmmmmm so it does, can't believe I missed that.
Still, the resemblance is there, and I'm glad for the chance to move the Merlin's date of introduction away from 3010.
>>46487705
Victor triggers the FCCW by marrying Omi; WoB Jihad redone as Liao/Marik cohorts striking the FC during the FCCW.
>>46490536
Y'know, I actually like "TtS:Bob" best? It's the first one to tell you enough about the on-world factions and tensions to set a campaign there.
>>46492991
because fuck you, that's why.
it's the standard naval pricing logic
>>46493021
It's just mind-bogglingly isane, even for someone used to the logic in >>46493027
Why do people even use DS instead of just ferrying stuff to orbit in jumpships and then dropping it onto the planet? I mean for real now. Those costs are just stupid.
>>46493051
People tend to look funny when they fall from orbit. Like burned bacon bits.
>>46487705
victor manages to prevent the assignation of his mamma by "persuading" katherine to go along with him. the FC goes after the bears after the jags, and breaks up in the jihad. how does this change things?
>>46493081
>implying it wouldn't be cheaper to put drop shielding and retrorockets on little pods
No wonder nobody in the IS blows up dropships or jumpships, they aren't worried about the other houses, they're worried about the fucking banks
>>46493051
that's actually how they used to do things before they invented the modern DS/JS arrangement.. why they changed to the modern system, that's a mystery
>>46493081
git gud
what is the best Black Knight and why is it the -9
>>46493954
Hatchet.
Also it was made for the sole purpose of fucking up Clanners.
>>46491825
pulse lasers, or whatever else you can use to counteract your opponent's high to hit numbers.
How would this work for a warship, bearing in mind my ignorance:
- 3 DropShip collars (maybe 4)
- 24 fighters
- LF battery
- Armament for killing ASF and DropShips
- If the above doesn't handle this, a weapons array for orbital bombardment and some anti-warship capacity
- modest speed, enough to run from things bigger
- strong armor and other defenses
Intended to ferry battalions around, establish air superiority and give the battalion air support.
>>46494756
With that list of requirements, I'd start by looking at the Davion Block II as a basic chassis and weight class and making changes as you see fit.
My advice on it would be to strip out all the standard-scale defenses and put between 6-12 SPLs in each arc for AMS duties. Pull out the entire NAC array and replace it with triple NAC-20s in the forward, RBS/LBS, and aft arcs (these are your WarShip killers) with 20-30 rounds per gun, minimum. Mount two triple batteries of NL-55s on each of the FR/L and AR/L arcs (these are AAA batteries). Up the DropShip collars to 4, and up the ASF complement to 30 (I always include some spare ASF slots in a custom WarShip for replacements - with 24 ASFs, that gets you 6 replacement fighters that can also sortie in an emergency). Take off 5800 tons of cargo for the LF battery. Max out the available armor tonnage, staying with the Ferro-carbide. Maybe add 2-4 k-tons of gas.
That should get you everything you want, and still have something like 50 k-tons left for cargo space, which is enough to support your battalion. Afterwards, if you're at like 60 k-tons, think about adding in more capital weapons bays (especially some extra or heavier NACs in the broadside bays, or a few nuke-capable capital missile launchers, or even some screen launchers for defense), but really, going under 40-50 k-tons of cargo is probably going to smack of *over*-optimization.
Davion Block II is here if you want to look at it: http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Davion_II_(WarShip_class)
Note that mounting standard-scale weapons to deter ASFs is a fools errand; so don't bother trying. You can't mount enough.
>>46495187
you know what I really want to see some day?
fan WarShip designs on par with the 2750 SL ones. any asshole can design a deathblob, but it's rare to see a canon-tier design
>>46495187
Why guns in the butt?
>NL-55
>AA
Oh lawd
> can't mount enough
Is there literally anything Warships can do to effectively defend themselves from fighters other than carry their own?
>>46484753
"The only good freebirth is a dead freebirth, and the only thing better is a captured freeborn that has proven his or her worth after becoming your bondsman."
>>46495346
REMOVE CLAN REMOVE CLAN
>>46491905
>Then, when I get the chance to go second, run behind them and backstab.
DARK SOULS
>>46495331
>>NL-55
>>AA
>Oh lawd
NLs can fire in AAA mode, and if they do so while bracketing, they can actually hit ASFs with some regularity. Doing it with NL-55s means you're hitting as hard as you possibly can with the weapon system. This is a relatively recent addition to the WarShip ruleset, so I don't fault you for not realizing it.
Guns in the butt are for orbital bombardment. You use aft weapons to fire at planets, because you have to point your nose away from them to counteract graviic pull.
>>46495331
>Is there literally anything Warships can do to effectively defend themselves from fighters other than carry their own?
Honestly, no. A small enough group of fighters you could see off, and you can get lucky with capital weapons fire. Naval lasers and the sub-capital guns can help (I didn't include sub-caps in the advise because they're era-limited thus far, and NLs aren't), and even standard-scale weapons can deal with a squadron of Thrushes or something. But in general, the only way to *reliably* defend against a large number of ASFs sent to take down your WarShip is by having ASFs of your own.
>>46495296
If the TRO 2750 ships were designed to roughly the same level of optimization as the 2nd-generation IS WarShips (TRO 3060, I think?), I'd be fine with that. That's a "baseline" I'm comfortable with - it provides room to be better, and also room to be worse. It's pretty tough to design something worse than a SovSoy or Vincent without really *trying*. I'd also honestly prefer that the entire WarShip design system be overhauled, though, and render the whole point moot.
>>46495492
>NLs can fire in AAA mode, and if they do so while bracketing, they can actually hit ASFs with some regularity.
Oh, god I just said that. Let me try again. 3am is hard.
NLs can use AAA targeting. They deal their full damage, but only get a +3 penalty to hit ASFs instead of a +5. You use these against ASFs that - for some reason, didn't go evasive.
NLs can also bracket-fire. You can get up to a -3 to hit (you're still a +5 to hit ASFs with capital weapons, but this becomes only a +2 including the bracketing bonus). However, if you get a -3, then your bays only deal 40% of their normal damage. So if the target is going to be harder to hit (evasive or abeam to you), use this. It's better to deal *some* damage than "none".
NLs (and subcapital lasers, but I already said why I wasn't recommending them) give you the best set of OPTIONS for AAA duties, and have a MUCH greater range than the weapons ASFs carry to boot, allowing you to open fire from a much greater range than they can reply, and giving you the outside chance of beating up the squadron so badly they break off before they ever get in their own range.
Note that I dislike Barracudas. They're accurate as fuck, but they just don't *do* anything when they connect. I've actually hit a single standard-scale, canon LAM with TWO 'cudas fired from a Rattler, and it just soaked both missiles. 20 points of standard (2 capital) is just not sufficient, and mounting a 6-10 tube bay of them so they DO do enough damage to actually matter will eat an unholy amount of ammunition tonnage.
>>46495492
>NLs can fire in AAA mode, and if they do so while bracketing
Can't do both. Either AAA mode OR bracketing, not AAA AND Bracketing.
Besides, firing in AAA mode is like a -2 Bracketing mod without sacrificing damage (IIRC it drops the penalty from +5 to +3 against small targets).
>>46495187
>6-12 SPLs in each arc for AMS duties.
Anything that's not an actual AMS is basically useless for AMS duties. 6 SPLs *barely* lets you shoot down one Barracuda per turn. 12 *barely* lets you shoot down one White Shark per turn.
Most ships with capital missiles can drop 4 or more of them on you each turn.
>>46495296
Define "canon-tier."
The "assholes" at FASA/FanPro gave us deathblobs (Leviathan II, Conqueror, Avalon, Mjolnir, McKenna) any way.
>>46495331
>Is there literally anything Warships can do to effectively defend themselves from fighters other than carry their own?
Large, bracketed arrays of NAC, NPPCs, and NLs is about it. Kill the squadrons through sheer damage or Fatal Thresholds as much as possible and hope for the best.
However squadrons of stuff like the Eisensturm can drop 30 capital damage on you with one wing and the nose if everything hits and nothing before the Avalon mass or era wise is tough enough to soak that for very long.
And being ASFs they always move last, so have fun keeping them off your ass or out of the hex in front of your Nose arc.
>>46493166
>why they changed to the modern system, that's a mystery
Compact-core merchantman: one week transiting from jump-point to planet, one week loitering in orbit recharging his KF core while transferring cargo to/from planet, one week transiting back to the jump-point, jump to next system, rinse and repeat. Total time spent delivering cargo to just one system: three weeks or more.
Standard-core JumpShip and DropShips: JumpShip jumps into system, undocks DropShips bound for this system, starts charging KF drive as they burn in-system. If properly scheduled, any DropShips coming up from the planet will arrive at the jump-point and dock with the JumpShip just before it finishes recharging and jumps out for its next destination. Total time spent delivering cargo to this system: one week.
Time is money, and the JS/DS combo is just the faster, more efficient, cheaper way to shift cargo between star-systems.
>>46495492
>If the TRO 2750 ships were designed to roughly the same level of optimization as the 2nd-generation IS WarShips (TRO 3060, I think?)
I think they were scattered throughout the Field Manual series, then compiled into TRO:3067.
>>46495692
>Can't do both. Either AAA mode OR bracketing, not AAA AND Bracketing.
He beat you to it. >>46495629
>>46495692
>Anything that's not an actual AMS is basically useless for AMS duties.
I agree with this, but I can see the reasoning behind using SPLs. they're not as efficient, but when you're talking single ton weapon systems it's not that huge of a problem. If you're going to use any sort of antimissile defense, you're going to be eating fire control penalties anyway, and SPLs have the strategic advantage of not requiring ammo or resupply.
>>46495692
>And being ASFs they always move last, so have fun keeping them off your ass or out of the hex in front of your Nose arc.
They do have to go through a lot of hexes to actually reach you, though. Don't naval weapons have like a 50 hex range, vs 25 or so for standard weapons?
>>46495692
>Can't do both
Yeah, sorry. I copped to that. >>46495629
3am is hard. No excuse, though.
>Anything that's not an actual AMS is basically useless for AMS duties.
I disagree. I hate using ammo-fed weapons for stuff like that. It's nowhere near as efficient as using AMSs, true, but I try to think of long-term deployments and so forth, and that's 1 less ammo type I have to worry about sourcing and keeping loaded in cargo space. If I'm going to have a credible missile defense grid, I'm going to use either 6 or 12 SPLs per arc, always, and I already know I'm going to end up taking fire control mass penalties.
I like screen launchers too. I know, I'm a terrible person.
>Define "canon-tier."
Most folks are thinking about SovSoys or Vincents. Or Camerons, or Carracks or Congresses. The number of 2750-era designs that are poorly-optimized are way, WAY bigger than the number of well-optimized designs (McKenna, Black Lion, and arguably the Texas). Anything not from TRO 2750 isn't part of the discussion, because that's what set the baseline for WarShip expectation to come.
>so have fun keeping them off your ass
Well, you CAN shoot them from a long way away, unless you're playing on a postage stamp. They're not usually going to get a guaranteed aft-shot on you until they're within standard-scale short range anyway. And if they build up a ton of velocity to scream through your range advantage and just hold down the "evasive maneuvers" button once they've spent thrust on getting Velocity 20, if you manage to throw off where they *think* your aft is going to be, it'll be hard for them to correct for that.
But, yeah, generally if you don't have a fighter screen of your own, your best hope are massed capital batteries killing them before they reach you. NLs are just the best weapon for that, largely due to AAA mode.
If a clan 'Mech and IS 'Mech are the exact same BV, what would your average player have more success with? Is BV pretty balanced between types of tech?
>>46495751
>SPLs have the strategic advantage of not requiring ammo or resupply.
They also do half the damage of an AMS and can only be fired once per turn. AMSes can be fired as many times per turn as you have the ammo/heat for it and deliver full damage.
>>46495845
>and that's 1 less ammo type I have to worry about sourcing and keeping loaded in cargo space.
It's a WarShip, NEA. It's likely to have (multiple) tens of thousands of tons of cargo space, and if you give each AMS 2 tons of ammo or so you can probably outlast enemy missile spam since most ships only have 10-20 missiles per launcher.
>>46496004
>AMSes can be fired as many times per turn as you have the ammo/heat for it
Doesn't that severely fuck up your heat curve? Warships can only fire as much as they have heat dissipation for, so couldn't the extra heat from shooting AMS's kill an entire extra arc's worth of fire to get those extra couple points of heat available?
>>46495977
Depends on the loadout. IS generally brings more weight and armor to the table. Clan brings more damage and range. Extra BV penalty for Omni too which doesn't do a damn bit of good in a pickup game. That's pretty similar to the oldtech vs. newtech divide though.
In my experience, oldtech and IS tend to win out. In the same way, you can bury somebody BV-wise in cheap tanks and field guns.That's why it's always good to agree to a few rules for a match
xBV
xlances or less mechs
xlances or less tanks
xunits infantry/ba or less
no more than x offboard artillery
xflying units or less
Then you wind up with something closer to equal.
>>46496241
Thank you, this is for the tournament you might have seen me talking about in the thread earlier. 1 out of every 3 mechs in my loadout can be a clan mech, I guess I'll play it based on the tonnage everybody is playing at / if I have the ability to customize.
>>46496095
>Doesn't that severely fuck up your heat curve?
Nope.
AMS generate 1 heat each per firing. Warships frequently have 1000+ heat dissipation, and if you're building a custom you can easily account for it.
Even on canon ships most of the time you have enough heat to handle the front and one side (fore, broad, and aft) which leaves hundreds of heat left over for AMS firing.
There are ships that can't do that sort of thing but they're few and far between. Also incredibly shitty. Like the Suffren.
Also, 6-12 SPLs per arc will eat 48-96 tons, with 8-16 Gunners adding another 62-121 tons. 110-217 tons, and you can match the 12 SPL/arc protection for 72 tons (6 AMS per arc, 1 ton of ammo each, no Gunners needed because AMS).
SPLs and "muh logistical footprint" can eat a bag of dicks. AMS is just flat-out superior and over the lifetime of the vessel will help it a lot more, especially since you can engage more than one missile per arc per turn. Shit, if you have 6 AMS per arc and have IS AMS with 3 tons of ammo each you're still only spending 168 tons and you can fire each AMS 36 times (72 if Clan).
Also ships can exceed their heat dissipation due to a special rule created to deal with the Suffren. The Suffren's Nose arc creates more heat on its own than the ship can dissipate, which caused CGL to write a rule that you can exceed your heat dissipation by making a Control roll.
Why make a special rule instead of just giving the Suffren errata to increase its heat sinks? Because CGL, they don't gotta explain shit.
>>46489398
>Forget everything you need to play.
What did he mean by this?
>>46495388
WE ARE THE 1%, OCCUPY INNER SPHERE
>>46492699
You ever play FreeSpace or Wing Commander?
>>46492725
Take care of your window sill.
>>46495845
NEA didn't you have a long post or PDF about how you'd set up warship classes in BT to function?
>>46495187
I usually don't much care for BT's spaceships, but this thing's cowcatcher and blocky snout really grab me
>>46482737
How can i get this series in watchable quality? Youtube is 144p and i literally can't understand lines of text due to how bad the compression is.
>>46497918
Damn it i had that somewhere.
>>46497813
FWL is a faction that has gone largely ignored by writers, to the point of almost feeling as though it has been forgotten, Jihad and Dark Age notwithstanding.
>>46498945
It's probably pretty boring then.
>>46499168
It's more along the lines of being involved in current events in a meaningful way, or doing things of consequence. There's plenty of fluff that details the FWL itself that's pretty interesting.
>>46499234
Imo the FWL is the most interesting faction but the writers have literally forgotten about it before, so it never really gets the depth it deserves.
>>46499270
No wonder the Steiner-Davion-Mariks were forgotten, they've got that old FWL magic.
>>46498821
Someone at /btg/ always has your stuff
Here you go
>>46499834
Totally not NEA btw but thanks anyway.
I'd taken screen shots of the original post but now I can't find them.
>>46499834
based /btg/ always helping out
>>46495845
Question on the picture in the above thread.
The Cappie squadron front right. Can someone ID the large flat warship mid right? I know the destroyers and the cruiser but not that one.
>>46496390
In that case make your clan 'mechs fire support ones. Clan ER PPCs are a maymay for a reason, grab a Warhawk. Grab also a Mad Dog. If you're allowed customization, go wild with ATMs too.
>>46500875
I think it's that most unfortunately named of warships, the Du Shi Wang.
>>46500985
huh...so it is. Why the fuck its actually IN that line up other than the fact that, at one time, they were Cappie warships is a mystery.
I'm not sure those other three could be separated by more time and development from the Du Shi then they already are. They certainly never served together.
>reading Mercenary's Star
>all this guerilla warfare
This reminds me of Dougram a lot. Especially with Gray in a Shad.
This repeated talk of warships has gotten me seriously interested in picking up some models and learning to play the space game. There's a Texas model just itching to be bought at my local shop and painted up as the SLS Bismark.
As a Capellan my options are limited but i've settled on what I think is a fair post Jihad squadron to start with and thought i'd see what you experts thought.
>CCS Ilsa Hyung
Upgraded Feng Huang Cruiser w 123 fighters
>CCS Xizang
Impavido Destroyer w 18 fighters
3 Vengeance DC dropships w 18 fighters each
5 Lung Wang P2 dropships w 2 fighters each
Total fighter compliment: 205
>>46497864
Yes. But I'm going for more of a "Let's throw these at a battlestation" vibe. Which AT doesn't do well.
Anyone ever run amaris coup-era naval games?
>>46501201
>Why the fuck its actually IN that line up other than the fact that, at one time, they were Cappie warships is a mystery.
Because that's a crop of a picture I took showing everything I painting in one calendar year. No other reason than i got painted in the same 12-month period as the other Cappie ships.
>>46501559
Honestly, this is one of the very few times I'll say this about a game that is much closer to a historical wargame than a traditional tabletop game...don't sweat canon when it comes to WarShip availability.
The WarShip forces available to factions are RIDICULOUSLY unfair. Limit yourself to faction ships (so your Cappies are unlikely to have a Tatsumaki...), and then liberally sprinkle SLDF and earlier ships into your forces. The game becomes much more fun. The following would be a legit, canon, WarShip matchup fleet action between the SLDF and the MoC:
SLDF
>4 McKenna
>2 Texas
>2 Aegis
>4 SovSoy
>2 Congress
>2 Cameron
>4 Essex
>4 Lola III
>8 Vincent 39
MoC
>6 Pinto
>2 Dart
>4 Vincent 39 (or an earlier Mark, technically)
Looks like loads of fun, right?
![Dragoon[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/8w3zTxh.jpg "Dragoon[1].jpg")
>>46503433
No, but I'd love for one of my units to find a cache of pic related later in the timeline that escaped destruction. I know they pop up again with new variants in the Dark Age, but that's only in a very limited circumstance.
>>46503645
>>46503642
>Looks like loads of fun, right?
According to >>46489515, that shouldn't be a problem, since the SLDF never had all those Warships in the first place.
The suggestion has come up before re: WarShip heavy AUs, but I'm going to put it as a question: How would you change the rules for surface-to-space fire to make it a viable deterrent to orbital bombardment?
>>46503642
Fair enough. Didn't know that was just a collection of "what i painted in a year"
So faction ships + SLDF/generic warships? I could do that.
>>46504511
Cheaper Surface to Space weapon systems perhaps?
>>46503642
That's what I liked about the pre-Jihad Free Worlds Navy. Nice load of domestic designs plus a sprinkling of SLDF ships to add flavor. Very fun.
So my local comic/game store started carrying the intro box. Me and few other people bought it. Then they started carrying the lance packs and the rule books. So I made this flyer and the corresponding facebook group to try to see if I can get us together to play.
>>46504511
Buff Sub-Cap lasers, and make it marginally more possible to mount them on vees. I was trying to build the anti-orbital guns from MechCommander, which were basically naval lasers on wheels, and no dice, since a "reasonable" mobile structure that could carry *one* let alone two naval lasers was bigger than the Rattler.
>>46504511
It's not really the rules but how common such facilities are that causes the problem.
Pretty much only the Star League was building them. So thatkinda screws things up from the start.
Ignoring that you've got the problem of how anti-orbital weapons work. Peacemaker nukes are one-hit kills against almost every WarShip, since few have enough integral AMS to stop one and only the Leviathan II/III can tank a hit.
Then you've got the issue of a planet that has credible anti-ship firepower being a pain in the ass to invade, nearing the point of impossible, because anything that can threaten a WarShip can wipe entire squadrons of transport DropShips out every turn.
So you need to change it to them being considerably more common and ground-based facilities being unable to target anything under 100 kT, because reasons.
But then WarShips become kinda pointless, might as well just spam ASF carriers instead since they're now useless for at least two thirds of their job (transport escort and ground support) and ASFs don't have that limitation.
Dicking around with WarShips has a lot of knock-on effects.
>>46504511
First, you have to change the fluff to make capital weapons easier to manufacture, so that planets have the ability to seed large chunks of their planet with orbital defense installations.
Next, you have to make it so that the ground-based weapons have a hard time targeting DropShips or smaller ships, including some sort of limitation on AAA mode for NLs.
Next, you have to make it so that it's hard for the WarShips to hit the anti-space installations, even with splash damage.
Finally, you have to make it *easy* to hit WarShips with the weapons.
All of this incentivises DropShip assaults intended to breach the planet's orbital defenses (using Mechs), so that the WarShips can move in and establish orbital supremacy over the cleared area.
Note that none of this stops c-fractional missile or suicide DropShip strikes against the surface of the planet. Frankly, nothing can.
>>46504885
>we
>I'm
anyway, Lansing? cool beans, I'm in the BC area. We had a shop with BT stuff but they went under.
>>46504885
Seems good. The various mechs reminded me that you might want to put a small note specifying eras at the bottom if you're specifically looking to keep grogs away. Or change everything to grog-friendly art only if you're 3025 forevers.
>>46505075
are grogs really that much of a problem? and these days is a grog only someone who wants to just play the succession war era? since we're in 3145 I feel like anyone who limits themselves to pre-Jihad games is a grog.
>>46504511
The first and most obvious thing is to make them more common. Second, make them unable to target DropShips or at least make it very hard if the DS isn't coming straight down on the installation. Third, make their ranges work in such a way as to prevent WarShips from standing outside the ASW range and shooting them up.
Another idea that popped into my head would be allowing planet-mounted NLs to operate as a sort of turbo-AMS against NAC shells and naval missiles
>>46478772
Please tell me that's an actual Penetrator variant.
>>46505042
Sorry to hear that, is there still a local scene?
>>46504511
Planet-based nuke silos everydamnwhere; in eras that aren't Total War, they're basically background fluff. In total war situations, they present a credible threat to would-be glasser's.
Rules-wise, I'd give bonuses for surface-to-space fire based on target size; so that DS are safe (maybe put the lower bound at ~50KT so as to not make shit like the Castrum intargetable), and so that WarShips get easier to hit as they get bigger. You could also allow vees to mount capital/nuclear missiles at single-missile tonnage, allowing mobile deterrent bees, as a defense against orbital strikes
>>46505075
I just have>>46492239
Is grogs gonna be that big of an issue.
>>46505381
>bees
>>46504936
>Note that none of this stops c-fractional missile or suicide DropShip strikes against the surface of the planet. Frankly, nothing can.
Well, it's a long-standing rule of mine that when I run anything sci-fi, that if you ever bring that shit up, you're out on your ass, although I suppose that's technically not really *stopping* it
>>46505262
Not really.
>>46505461
Fuckin autocorrect. Nuclear deterrent bees would be an absolutely terrifying weapon, though
>>46505169
Whether they're a problem is really up to the dude putting up the poster. I'm more acknowledging that the fanbase can be fractured and that when advertising you might want to take pains to get just who you want. There's 3025-only guys and "the timeline stops after 3067" guys. Some places are full of them, others not so much, but it saves everyone time if you can weed out the undesirables, however you're defining that.
What's your favorite variant of the omni Blackjack? I'm going for long-range and considering between the A, B, and E variants. For the B I'd have to swap out the C3 slave unit since we're not using C3, and might just toss a medium laser in to replace it.
Would going with the R variant be too munchy? I'd probably be the only player with Clan tech, and while I don't think anyone would mind since my role in the lance is the old veteran, I don't want to be "that guy."
>>46505901
The A and B are both very solid. Are custom loadouts acceptable? If so, I've got an idea
>>46506055
For the most part I'm kind of running the show, and was sticking with canon loadouts for consistency.
But I'd love to hear a custom one if you've got it.
>>46506082
LGR, 1 ton ammo, ERPPC, 2x LRM-5 with two tons of ammo, and an ER small laser
It's pure long-range fire support and the two tons of LRM ammo gives you flexibility (I'd personally make one of them thunders and the other S-G (if you've got TAG-equipped pals) or regular rounds). You're going to need a bodyguard close-in, but you are THE supreme long-range harasser
>>46504475
>I am literally too retarded to understand the concept of an AU where the SLDF is not exactly as it was in canon
Guess what, in MY AU the Star League doesn't even exist.
Name your favorite two Warships. One must be Cruiser or smaller, the other Battlecrusier or bigger.
I like the Quixote on the smaller end due to its heavy missile loadout which, I know, isn't amazing due to AMS and all that but I still find it appealing. Just wish it went faster.
On the bigger end I like the Texas. Just a solid monster of a ship and one is also the sole known survivor of the Wolverine fleet.
>>46506367
I know next to nothing about the Aero side of the game, but I love the existence of the Thera. If we're going to be dumb and use space fighters in the first place, might as well go balls out and have a big-ass carrier. The fact that that's a very good approach and the FWL has it is just a bonus.
>>46506367
Aegis and Black Lion/Conqueror.
NAC boats are brutal.
>>46506367
I actually really like the Quixote as well. For larger ships, I have a strange love for the Monsoon, even though it's not very good
>>46506419
I just went to read the sarna article on the Thera, and this little snippet jumped out at me:
>Like other FWLM ships, each Thera-class ship carries a Hyperpulse Generator on board
Did anyone else put HPGs on all or most of their ships?
Not gonna lie, the FWL's naval hat is the main reason I'm interested in them. Wish they were still wearing it.
>>46506367
On the small end, the Vincent is the only one I've ever run, so it wins by default, shitty though it is. On the large end, the Soyal. It's terrible what with the mass driver and all, but that's also what makes it so great
>>46506179
>THE supreme long-range harasser
>mfw
Sounds perfect. I'll play a couple test games with it and see how it fares.
>>46506508
>Not gonna lie, the FWL's naval hat is the main reason I'm interested in them. Wish they were still wearing it.
lol they only got it so the WoB could use it
>>46506508
>>46506419
>yfw the FWL had six Theras
>yfw TPTB forgot about the FWL navy and had to fall back on "WoB lol"
>Delphi - literally forgotten about
>Thessaly - also literally forgotten about
>Corinth - off being 2spooky
>Delos - Regulans, sure, they need a ship to be scary
>Santorini - how we maek engines lul
>Sardis - stolen by WoB, captured by Ravens. Because they need more ships.
I quit following canon in the Jihad, the whole thing was just too much of a senseless clusterfuck.
>>46506715
Remember how they had to kill like a dozen or two FWLN ships post-Jihad because they were just plain forgotten about DURING the Jihad?
top kek
>>46506658
>>46506715
>we're gonna steal your ships 'k
>we're gonna blow up the ones we didn't
To this day I have literally no understanding of why WoB went nuts on the FWL. I can get stealing the ships, in isolation, but they really seem to have gone ham on the FWL for no reason at all. At least they had a semi-decent reason to fight everyone else, but the FWL supported them in every way.
>>46506758
I don't remember the specifics, but even after that and the 3145 stuff I had to ask them to make up their mind about who had one of them.
>>46506789
The way WoB had been written for literally years (True Believers are the majority, cooperating with the FWL) had to be thrown out at the last second so they could become the Inner Sphere's Penguin of Doom.
>>46506813
They made up a couple battles that were never written about since a chunk of the FWL navy was never accounted for in the Jihad because the writers completely forgot about the FWLN's size.
>>46506789
Don't forget magically stealing dozens of warships and having the crews to man them overnight.
>>46506895
I always just figured they used the ~10 years the ships had been operating before the Jihad started to suborn enough of the crew to have them come over when asked any way.
>>46506813
>expecting Oystein to do his job
>ever
Let me know how that one works out for you.
Not even a joke, that's what he was on staff for. Keeping track of all the military assets and their locations to help other writers with plotting events.
Which promptly fell over because Oystein really didn't know jack. And was schooled on it several times at the OF.
But hey, anything's better than having a searchable Excel file, aimirite?
>>46506789
>To this day I have literally no understanding of why WoB went nuts on the FWL
Because MWDA was written by stone cold retards and CGL had to follow their mandate (also CGL are dumbasses who forgot about the FWL and decided to fall back on their standard plotline of "everyone in the inner sphere is an irrational psychotic retard")
>>46506430
Awesome. Someone else likes the Quixote too!
I thought I was just weird for liking it.
Now its not just me anymore!
>>46507039
>I always just figured they used the ~10 years the ships had been operating before the Jihad started to suborn enough of the crew to have them come over when asked any way.
That doesn't sound feasible with the numbers and length of time involved, including the Federal oversight even with ROM infiltrating. If they were that good it just boggles the mind. Thousands of Free Worlders suborned like that when they theoretically had some measure of loyalty to join the navy in the first place?
Not saying it's impossible, but it reads like really shitty, lazy writing given the amount of ships just plain forgotten until fans pointed them out.
>>46507074
That's another thing I don't get - the condition that CGL has to treat the MWDA stuff as written in stone. Why was that a thing? Who does it benefit?
>>46507135
Topps, who owns the franchise, said to keep it. Can't tell them no, can you?
>>46507135
As I understand it, CGL doesn't *own* battletech, they do it under license from WizKids/Fanpro. One of the license conditions is that they use the same canon as WizKids did; it ain't a GURPS Traveller-type situation, though I and probably a lot of others wish it were
>>46507245
>>46507274
What I'm wondering is why Topps said to keep it.
I suspect Jordan is somehow involved.
>>46507321
I bet Coleman is behind this
>>46506874
Here's a quick breakdown of the FWLN:
>Destroyed in hindsight (Jihad Final Reckoning, outright had to be said destroyed on the OF)
FWLS Liberty
FWLS Raven
FWLS Janos Marik
FWLS Phrygia
FWLS Gawain
FWLS Leodegrance
FWLS Delphi
FWLS Thessaly
FWLS Kay
FWLS Attica
>Suborned and actually seen in a Jihad book before the end
FWLS Sparta
FWLS Acari
FWLS Ixodida
FWLS Scorpion
FWLS Impavido
FWLS Mordred
FWLS Percival
FWLS Nueva Badajoz
FWLS Xanthos
FWLS Corinth
>Suborned but didn't appear until Jihad Final Reckoning (aka hindsight)
FWLS Tirana
FWLS Karelia
FWLS Araneida
FWLS Kustarachnae
FWLS Opilione
FWLS Tristram
FWLS Bedevere
FWLS Bors
FWLS Olympic
FWLS Aineas
FWLS Hippolyta
FWLS Troy
FWLS Sardis
>Joined a province for no reason (may have only been referenced in Jihad Final Reckoning)
FWLS Haptopoda
FWLS Schrack
FWLS Santorini
FWLS Delos
>Stayed loyal to the FWL
FWLS Lancelot
FWLS Galahad
FWLS Menelaus
>>46507643
Jesus fuck!
A) I never realized how big a fleet they had.
B) The way it was dealt with is disgusting.
>>46508107
Also, only the Delos survived in an ex-FWL state, and with it's engines gone. A couple of the smaller ones the Blakists took vanished, and the Ravens have a fully operational Thera which they stole off the Blakists.
>>46508354
Yeah my list isn't meant to depict their ultimate fates, just how they were used in the Jihad plot.
>>46507129
>If they were that good it just boggles the mind.
Welcome to the Jihad, anon.
WoB is nothing short of magical. They had to be in order to justify the DA fluff.
>>46507321
I don't know how it all went down but I think it's more that WizKids said they had to keep it. Not sure when Topps bought the IP but I'm fairly sure it was in place right from the moment FanPro/CGL were allowed to keep doing "Classic" BattleTech.
>>46507135
Some people started playing Battletech because of MWDA, it isn't fair to them to retcon the fluff because some nerds think 00s shit writing is worse than 80s and 90s shit writing
