Not Letting the troll start the thread edition.
Last thread: >>46455876
http://pastebin.com/gsYUFPGD
Wow, managed to catch him pretty quickly.
how "I cast firebal!" are the Mage games? I really love occultism and weird magick, but if most of the powers in the game involve D&D style sorcery then I'm not interested
>>46463111
Its almost as if she puts a big fucking picture at the top of the thread and writes it in the title
>>46463122
Every single arcana has armor spell and lethal damage spell, so you can't avoid D&D Wizardry. Minimise sure, but not avoid
q
>>46463122
Put it this way: Throwing a fireball (or its equivalent action for the other Arcana) is almost always the worst possible thing a Mage can do in a given instant.
If you're asking "how often is magic a blunt instrument to solve the problem in front of you," THAT is more common. But actually doing overt magic is rarely necessary or even profitable.
chronicles of fagness
>>46463122
Well, all the magic has a means of doing damage, but fireball would be under forces. And likely fall under disbelief. So it's not common. MtAw prefers subtler magic, and occultism.
>>46463190
He said it! So shocking! Gasp!
>>46463190
Do you think he's salty that someone cut his thread at the head?
>>46463165
>Throwing a fireball (or its equivalent action for the other Arcana) is almost always the worst possible thing a Mage can do in a given instant.
Why is this?
>>46463152
If D&D Wizardry simply is any way to use magic to defend yourself and as a offensive tool, then EVERYTHING is D&D.
I think you don't really understand what the poster is asking.
>>46463165 has it, because D&D magic is almost always open, blunt, and overt in it's effects.
>>46463270
The nature of the game.
Magic is unnatural, and the moment the rest of Reality learns you are doing magic, Reality turns it's attention on you to correct your nonsense (and your anus).
>>46463301
Thank god almight Dave got rid of vulgar magic so mages can cast without a cae in the world
>>46463270
Because it's:
1) Obvious and showy, which is bad.
2) Only going to hurt someone, when you could be doing something like reversing gravity for them or turning them into a cat and ending the fight instead. (Or more subtle methods, I guess.)
3) Probably going to cost you mana and bounce off more kinds of defense than other spells.
>>46463347
that sounds absolutely fantastic. Thanks for the advice
>>46463326
>this is me totally misunderstanding what was said and making wild speculation about a game that isn't out.
Here is your
>you
>>46463362
why so salty?
>>46463347
>2) Only going to hurt someone, when you could be doing something like reversing gravity for them or turning them into a cat and ending the fight instead. (Or more subtle methods, I guess.)
this isn't really a problem
hurting people with magic refers to actually using the magic to directly harm them (boiling their blood, igniting a flame in their brain)
a fireball is the same as reversing gravity, and iwll probably be more affective than the gravity or polymorph
>>46463384
The point is that the fireball is still "only" dealing lethal damage to the target, and unless it deals 7+L (which it isn't), it's not going to compete with making someone fall upwards, which immediately ends the fight.
>>46463422
>it's not going to compete with making someone fall upwards, which immediately ends the fight.
unless there's some sort of lethal spikes on the ceiling they can still do shit
>>46463442
Okay, turn gravity towards the nearest window then, you dink.
They're going to cover 100 feet on the very first turn, and considerably more than that on the second, etc.
They aren't going to accomplish anything while you just walk off.
>>46463384
>iwll probably be more affective than the gravity or polymorph
According to who?
You are treating it as though it must be a battle to the death.
>>>46463442
You are treating it as a battle to the death, rather than "How can I deal with this quickly and bugger off before his buddies/the cops/far worse arrive".
Even, assuming the other mage has a shield up, your fireball gets cold clocked, compared to indirect means.
>he's disregarding fall damage
>>46463055
>Old Pastebin
Fagness did it better
http://pastebin.com/NjH6gQqi
So, i was taking a look at the new Unknown Armies, and they have a section about rituals, magic stuff anybody (more or less) can do by performing certain weird and risky actions. Leaving aside for a moment the thematic differences between the two games, I've always thought that WoD (especially low-tier WoD, mortals and hunters and stuff) is missing this kind of one-off, accessible but dangerous magic things that don't require to be part of a specific circle of creatures. After all, dusty tomes and desperate measures are a staple of the genre.
Did anybody try anthing like this in their games?
>>46463491
>You are treating it as a battle to the death, rather than "How can I deal with this quickly and bugger off before his buddies/the cops/far worse arrive".
Yes, that's why you're using a fireball
>>46463122
Careless use of magic is deadly and harmful not just to yourself but to your whole community. Seeing magic shit causes breaking points in most mortals, which is bad. Like, string of plot hooks bad. Solving the problem can make it worse; killing the mortal adopted nephew of the 4th degree master is never a good idea, especially if he was part of a demons cover(which is the reason so few people knew he existed in the first place). Magic has a thing about making things worse, but a lot of people hold firm to the mindset that they can solve those problems with magic, and the problems made by those problems with magic.
Throw fireball mages tend not to be well respected(you need to throw fireballs to kill your enemies? Why not call on an army of ghosts or harvest the power of a storm?), and tend not to live long.
>>46463122
Given that it doesn't involve casting from a fixed list of predefined magic spells, Mage isn't very D&D at all.
>>46463544
Mirrors has something kinda like that, where you put your Morality stat on the line to gain an actual supernatural power as a Mortal.
>>46464460
Yeah, well, I was actually thinking more along the lines of the new equipment subsystems in CofD... something not permanent, that does not require expenditure of character build resources.
From the other thread
>>46462803
>>46462973
>>46464202
Bloodlines is very much a game that can be ruined by expectations. I finished it a few months ago and I don't know how to feel about it. I wanted it to be much better than it was. Is there a mod that redoes the entire second half to make it not shit?
I should try making a WoD themed Shadowrun Returns module. That might be a fun waste of time.
But seriously, that game was so purposeless and dumb. Even some of the better parts of the ending could have been handled better. Why the fuck was Cain the cabdriver? People go fucking nuts over that, but it's so fucking stupid and makes no Goddamned sense.
>>46466057
>I wanted it to be much better than it was.
It's a decent FPS-RPG from 2003, it's all on you if you got way too hyped up on it. That doesn't mean that any new Vampire game won't be permanently in its shadow and will have to deal with that.
>>46466437
Except that the RPG parts were hyped over the FPS parts. The FPS parts are shit.
Where's the Monday Meeting Notes and the next spoiler for Signs of Sorcery?
>>46466551
MMN usually takes a few more hours, at least
SoS spoilers may not happen until Dave's done Proofing Mage2e
>>46463326
not even remotely true dumbass
>>46466057
I have no doubt in my mind you could make a better game.
>>46466507
Hence, "decent" and not "great" or "amazing". Games can get totally hyped up and not be a polished AAA experience. In fact, I would say that janky-ass games tend to get hyped up the most.
http://theonyxpath.com/what-the-heck-is-that-monday-meeting-notes/
This week's Monday Meeting Notes.
New things that are happening:
First Draft
>V20 Dark Ages Anthology (Vampire: the Masquerade 20th Anniversary Edition)
Second Draft:
>Wraith: the Oblivion 20th Anniversary Edition
Editing:
>The Prince’s Gambit (Vampire: the Masquerade 20th Anniversary Edition)
Post-Editing Dev:
>W20 Shattered Dreams (Werewolf: the Apocalypse 20th Anniversary Edition)
>Shattered Dreams in-book stretch goals (Werewolf: the Apocalypse 20th Anniversary Edition)
Curse of the Blue Nile is in Layout, Mage 2e is in Second Proof.
Gibbous>Crescent>Full>New>>>Half
Prove me wrong
>>46467602
CURSE OF THE BLUE NILE
HYPE
Y
P
E
>>46467602
More art previews for Mage2e, too
>Not even mentioning that the Pack is already at Stew for Proofing
>>46467907
And this is from The PackTotally gonna slap my CofD General thing on these two and use them for future OP images
>>46467792
>CURSE OF THE BLUE NILE
What is this?
>>46467907
Whoops, my bad. I've been super hyped for The Pack too so that's totally something I should have noticed.
>>46467947
A Mummy: The Curse novel, one of the Kickstarter stretch goals from a looooong time ago. It will be the first offical novel in the Chronicles of Darkness since 2012's The Silent Knife: http://whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Silent_Knife
This could mark the return of Chronicles of Darkness novels in general, since OPP's fiction editor is super interested in getting that off the ground, but we shall see.
MAGE 2E NEEDS TO BE OUT NOW
NOW
>>46468121
We still have a few weeks.
Dave and Mike must still finish at least one more proof, and then it must still go to Paradox for final approval.
>>46468051
does anyone have the silent knife in pdf form?
>>46467907
I see Prime Unveiling in the center, Life unaspected on the left, Spirit Ruling up top, Fate Weaving on the right, and Death Unraveling at the bottom.
Any guesses as to what it does?
>>46468413
I believe that's an old High Speech euphemism for "I'm gonna fuck all your shit up".
>>46468413
No freaking clue.
The lack of clarity on the Life symbol is important, the rest, here are my best guesses:
>Prime Unveiling
Displaying truth, possibly to whatever is created/summoned, otherwise Knowing would probably be sufficient, and could be performed separately
>Life Unaspected
No freaking clue. So many different things life could do, and its relation to Spirit is questionable.
>Spirit Ruling
Commanding or calling a Spirit?
>Fate Weaving
Presence of Spirit makes me think that it's enforcing some sort of Ban, perhaps combined with Prime for specificity?
>Death Unravelling
Undoing a Death effect? Freeing a soul? No clue.
Either way, that's a spell using 5 freaking Arcanum.
It's going to be BIG.
>>46468640
It's the unveiling that gets me. It's clearly really important but where do the other spells come into what seems centrally a spell about revealing information?
What happens when a female werewolf gets pregnant? Does she still shapeshift?
>>46468853
A fetus starts growing inside her.
Nothing changes, really; she just has a baby in her belly, now. She can still do everything else as normal, barring the stuff changed by the pregnancy conditions in 2e.
>>46468853
You now got a pregnant werewolf, who is pregnant in all forms. It ain't rocket science.
What's your character's Virtue, /wodg/?
I find coming up with interesting Vices to be easy—but with Virtues, I always feel like my options are more limited. I'm currently struggling to decide on a Virtue for a new Mage character, and I wanna hear what some of you folks have played with before.
>>46468773
I think... It might just be a gigantic Prime Unveiling spell.
The remainder of the symbols merely being used as a sympathetic connection to the events which actually occured?
Either that or we're reading FAR too deeply into it, and it's just a nice piece of art using some standard gylphs the artist was provided.
>>46468413
>>46468489
>>46468640
It definitely conversational High Speech for, "Ha, Ha, Mage 2e is All A Big Lie."
>>46468956
Persistence.
She never gave up on something, or someone.
>>46468956
Charitable, paired with a Vice of Hasty.
It led to a looot of innocent people getting hurt.
>>46468223
but it needs to be out now...
>>46468995
Oh, I like that.
>>46469033
>It led to a looot of innocent people getting hurt.
Please, tell me more.
>>46469172
Well, I'm on a phone but the short list...
-Tried to help a magic fish; got shot.
-Tried to help a day labourer find the magic woman he had dreamed of since she saved his life; sent him screaming home.
-Tried to help clear a friend's name; nearly got a guy eaten by wolves.
-Tried to solve the murder of her grandparents; nearly beheaded her uncle.
-Tried to solve a bunch of other murders; broke the (innocent) sheriff's arm.
-Tried to help a friend; nearly got him killed by a Changeling.
Turns out running into situations without full knowledge gets people hurt.
>>46463379
OMG, that fucking adorable!!
About a year ago, Dave made a reference to Down and Dirty spellcasting in Mage 2e.
Has he ever expounded on the rule or provided any spoilers?
http://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/38562844/#38579898
>>46467907
Is the new High Speech art supposed to represent the Omphalos wall realm dividing the Temenos and Anima Mundi?
Is Beast still a game about abusive otherkin fighting the heteronormative people trying to stop their rampages or did the revisions do anything meaningful?
>>46463055
So, what the fuck is up with Beast? I read some shit online and it looks otherkin as fuck.
>>46468965
>Either that or we're reading FAR too deeply into it, and it's just a nice piece of art using some standard gylphs the artist was provided.
Now, you're thinking like a Mage.
>>46469473
>>46469478
Matt made some revisions to make the game slightly less otherkin. Now Beasts are supposedly mostly about "teaching people important lessons."
If you didn't like the original Beast drafts, you're unlikely to feel differently now.
>>46469478
People who have their souls devoured by primordeal spirits of spooky nightmares. They get some powers from this, and have to feed their spooky self through tormenting people. They have a mystical dream-lair, where they exist as their soul-self, and they have some bullshit ability to connect to and draw power from other supernaturals.
Through existing, they produce their counter-faction, Heroes, who are people who don't have spooky selves, but gigantic egos and who have to play the part of the "Hero" and a connection to the "big damn hero" part of the legend-force that Beasts draw their power from.
Beasts not being all a fucking verminous plague on society is "justified" by saying that in their torment they teach valuable lessons. Because you can't just be a parasite like Vampires, no siree.
They also have very little actual cosmology themselves, or any real connection or end goal making them somewhat of an aimless faction devoid of purpose, which relies strongly on their "oh hey, we're like brothers to every other Supernatural" angle which basically makes them a "crossover" book.
It's marginally better than how I'm portraying it, but really I still wouldn't play it.
>game where the premise is "you are a literally bloodthirsty monster desperately clinging to what is left of your human identity/morality as alien hungers eat away at you"
>setting is 90% abstract politics
Both Masquerade and Requiem are guilty of this. Why?
>>46469473
>>46469478
Post-revisions, it's actually just a game about nothing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3Kgf_dEWjE
>>46469473
Hey dude, I'm
>>46469478
This Anon.
I think its still otherkin, but I haven't heard about the most recent updates.
Personally, the problem comes down to Heroes, at least for me; I don't mind that the game is supposed to have primarily vainglorious 'Heroes' in name only, but there should still be 'True Heroes' in the archaic sense of the word. People who do things like fight the Grendal because FUCK the things that try to eat humanity, stuff like that.
I mean, fuck, it'd not be that hard; just have a 'Sane' and somewhat decent Hero appear on a critical failure while the beast is beyond a certain power threshold, because, at that point, you're clearly trying to become a fucking Legendary Monster, and if the internal consistency of the world is that Heroes spawn to challenge and kill Beasts, a more powerful beast should be triggering more individuals. Including those who are more sane.
I mean, a genuinely decent 'Hero' would be a fucking terrifying figure for Beasts, because the Hero could cooperate and work with other people for the sake of the goal, and not alienate everyone around them.
>>46469576
Well, I mean, if you want that with none of the political focus, that's pretty much Beast's deal.
>>46469532
It is a powerful Prime spell designed to finally reveal to us the glorious Truth of the new Mage 2e.
Unfortunately, Onyx Path rolled a Dramatic Failure, and now Mage will never be released and all we'll be seeing for the immediate future are one Beast supplement after another.
>>46469576
Because people trying to deny the beast within usually overcompensate.
Also because it's a classic.
You're free to ignore it and play devil may care hellraisers if you like.
>>46469621
>game where the premise is "you are a literally bloodthirsty monster desperately clinging to what is left of your human identity/morality as alien hungers eat away at you"
>Beast.
Wrong, nigga. In Beast, you're a monster and the seeming end goal is to be the biggest fucking monster possible.
>>46469619
>People who do things like fight the Grendal because FUCK the things that try to eat humanity, stuff like that.
It's pretty stupid yeah.
"The real heroes aren't the guys who hunt down and get rid of the monsters who plague our society. Treat the symptoms, not the cause!"
>>46469619
>but there should still be 'True Heroes' in the archaic sense of the word. People who do things like fight the Grendal because FUCK the things that try to eat humanity, stuff like that.
That's what Hunters are for. I don't mean that in the smug way the Beast core puts it, I mean that as in that's literally what the Vigil is all about. That's what The Vigil is.
For what it's worth, post-revision it mentions "good Heroes' but it claims that they spend most of their time...of screen, doing things that keep themselves out of the way of Beasts. In theory this could be cool, since you could show off good Heroes as being pretty much secular clerics or something, but it just screams "this is a copout because we cannot afford the word count for nuance."
>>46468956
Patience. Which is a rare thing with the people he's teamed up with.
>>46469576
Vampires don't make in-character excuses for being monsters and actually have an Integrity-analog stat to reinforce their dwindling humanity, Beasts have a hunger-meter.
Beasts, particularly before the revisions, and despite viciously preying on people who are largely innocent or who committed minor offenses, are portrayed as the "good guys."
Both vampire games also have rich and detailed histories and social groups to provide motivation to players. The closest Beasts come to this is their ability to be chummy with some other supernaturals.
>>46469702
>post-revision it mentions "good Heroes' but it claims that they spend most of their time...off screen, doing things that keep themselves out of the way of Beasts
>Matt to English translation:
I didn't have enough time and word count to actually fix the setting and rules abortion that were "Heroes."
>>46469576
because your bloodthirsty monsters need something to DO. you can play without the politics in Requiem pretty easily.
>>46467783
> Bard>Sorcerer>Barbarian>Rogue>>>Cleric
You tastes are shit and you should feel like shit
>Came home from work, previous thread was archived...
I'm just gonna leave this here...
http://secondtruth.com/bwtf/index.htm
>>46469884
Fuck you, bards are awesome.
>>46470033
>This site's most recent update was midnight of December 29, 2006.
I couldn't tell from the neon.
>>46469702
I dunno. You could have interesting if tragic heroes that could fulfill roles that no hunter could; one is actively compelled by narrative causality, after all. And no hero can retire; the only thing they have to look forward to is glory and death. Heroes could operate as beings with enough autonomy to know they are tasseled by the yoke of fate, yet are still bound to it in a way that few other beings could comprehend.
>>46470077
It's just vaporwave...
>>46469478
Just started reading it myself.
So far the best comparison I can make is, "your soul is now tied to your cat" the more fed he is, the more he cares about you, but its still a cat so don't push your luck. If too full fuck you. If too hungry fuck you twice.
Your horror, the monster inside you or "the cat" as Ive been calling it wants you to instill fear into peoples hearts to fill its belly, like, all god damn day. Not just any fear, it wants only its favorite brand of fear, no off brands, no knock offs, just the good stuff.
When you enter your cat, I mean horror's, lair you merge with it, becoming a super cat monster.
You can also grow whiskers and convince people your a vampire or werewolf... up until you have to do vampire or werewolf things.
you can cut yourself to make people better wizards! Yeah!
You can also feed the cat by watching other people feed. You can go from starving to okay be spending an evening at a vampire rack.
Atavisms are like kiths that get better the hungrier the cat is, and can be roid raged up by making the cat hungrier.
Nightmares make people think shit is happening and are from what ive seen mostly mind effects. The fuller the cat the better they are. Can also do super effect by making the cat hungrier.
No idea how family ties work.
Still reading. Chapter 2 was god awful and should be skipped till the end.
>>46470033
>Then, I got into White Wolf. I took a look at the alternate rules listed for things like Highlander-style "Immortals" and Disney-type "Gargoyles."
Of course someone made an oWoD Gargoyles game. Of course someone did.
>>46470103
No, it's just tacky.
>>46470246
>Stone by day... warriors by night...
>>46470151
>"your soul is now tied to your cat"
Now that's a storytelling game of personal horror I can get behind.
>>46470151
The cat metaphor is on point.
>>46470282
It really is kind of perfect when you think about it Disney's Gargoyles is pretty much the perfect oWoD friendly aesthetic, sans the edge and sex White Wolf likes.
>>46470246
Good ol' BJ Zanzibar's site.
>>46470324
Well yeah, it was supposed to be for kids.
It was pretty much the best show ever when I was like 5 or 6...
>>46470305
>>46470291
>>46470151
Now I envision dogs as the real Heroes of the setting.
Those attention starved hounds do nothing constantly demand "pet me, look at me, scratch me, it's all about me, woof, woof" and chasing the poor cat (who only cares about itself).
>>46469725
How do you regain Willpower for that? I've usually assumed exercising your Virtue has to involve some sort of cost, risk, or it otherwise being inconvenient for you in some way.
>>46470365
What I was trying to say is that I think it being White Wolf without the dumb White Wolf parts made it the best. Clearly I should watch that show again should I decide to run an oWoD game for some reason.
>>46470404
It all comes back to Pugmire sooner or later.
>>46470461
When it would most convenient to rush in, you take the time to think it out, plan for days. You could get what you want right away through less legal means, to hold off and get it through proper channels. Also, you only need to risk yourself to regain ALL your willpower.
>>46470469
I think a little sex doesn't ruin a game, but... You should totally watch the show again.
>>46470469
>It all comes back to Pugmire
Heck no. I didn't need to think of the goofy dog game to engage in the age old discussion of cats vs. dogs (although I'm firmly in the pro-dog/Hero camp).
>>46470608
>proud of being a dogcuck
>>46470627
#NotAllHeroes
#NotAllCanines
#DogsRuleCatsDrool
#BeastSucksAss
>>46470034
There's a time and place for boner bandits.
Werewolf games are neither.
>>46470461
>>46470596
Delayed gratification.
>>46470813
Wait, so the penguin paid a guy to live next to some guy and play loud music at random intervals?
How can I obtain that gig?
>>46470608
>cats vs dogs
Look at this pleb who doesn't own a horse.
>>46470813
Exactly. Delayed gratification. There's plenty of ways. My character's vice is lust, so you can imagine how those things play off each other.
>>46470603
>>46471489
What's with these awful tumblr GIFs.
>>46472240
I did a Google search, and it fit the post? I didn't have a proper reaction gif for it.
>>46472507
This might have worked
>>46472550
And my gif was crappy? That might as well be a screenshot. Nothing going on there.
>>46472550
>posting an actual gif straight from tumblr
Disgusting
Chronicles of Tumblr ???
What the hell is this thing.
Is it recognizable from one of the other, less appealing splats.
>>46473063
Something from the Lower Depths, possibly even an Inferno demon.
>>46473063
That's some Inferno shit, there. That shit is fucked.
>>46473914
Just without any of the neat investments a Demon might actually possess.
>>46463122
Paradox and disbelief prevents it from being "I cast fireball on the Cop". But.. Magic doesn't enter into mage games. That sounds strange, I know, but when anyone can potentially do anything, in a quiet and subtle way, it becomes more on your GM to make the story interesting. Obviously not everyone can do everything, but a full 5 man cabal can quickly ferret out nearly any information they need, for example. The campaigns tend to be slow spirals toward enlightenment and explorations of assorted philosophical context mixed with bits of magical 'lore' that your characters use to represent enlightenment, or just standard superpowered heroes who have to keep quiet.
The fun in mage games is directly related to your GM's quality.
>>46474146
well I'm the GM and I suck ass hardcore.
Guess Mage isn't the right choice then.
>>46463190
>>46474164
Yeah. Most WoD games are like that. The rules are heavy, but weird and clunky.
Honestly? You might like to try Shadowrun. I espouse it mostly because I can break the system upside down and back to front, but if you stick with the 4th edition you dodge the massive drop in quality of 5. Although some of the later books are bad. It's an easy to pick up system, with a classic D&D structure that is made alien enough that your players won't know. You can still do the esoteric enlightenment part for anyone who plays a mage/technomancer/otaku.
Now, where was I?
GAY WEREWOLVES.
>>46474198
>>46474221
>>46474242
>>46474168
>>46474198
>>46474211
>>46474221
>>46474242
>>46474254
>>46474267
>>46474281
Goddammit. How did this happen again?!?
>>46474340
horny for the wolfman
>>46474367
But, I mean, he did it last thread too! Why this one as well? What's the point? The Gay werewolf posters are gonna weaponize the knot at this rate. It used to be "gay werewolves this thread?" And that was it.
>>46474395
>Implying the knot isn't already a weapon when someone tries to pull it outta your ass.
Hope you like a prolapsed everything.
>>46474400
I'm fine, since I don't go in for gay werewolves.
>>46474395
Because it annoys you, anon. It makes you hysterically angry. Just look at the tone of your post. The lack of control over your preferred habitat, the WODG. It eats at you. People don't recognise what you think of as your brilliance. And they shit up what you think of as these rarefied airs for discussion of high-order roleplay.. with gay werewolves.
And I know that now. Deep in my soul. So whenever I see a thread, I'm going to pop in. Open my 'why the fuck did I save these' folder. Post some gay werewolves, and gayracula, because gayracula makes me nostalgic for the Vampire Bride quests. It's just like EPG, and SRG, and the others. THere's always one poster who thinks of the thread as their property. As a place where their opinions are sacrosanct. You can always pick them, even though they're anonymous, and it's easy to stir them up with a few quick disagreements. But here, I don't even need to do that. Just pop out some gay werewolves, and the rest of the shitposters take care of it for me.
See you next thread.
>>46474198
Damn it. Werewolves can breed without creating evil ghost murder babies now. Don't need gay werewolves anymore. One image is enough.
>>46474448
one of the characters in my werewolf game wants to have lupine lesbian sex with another character's wolf-blooded mom :(
>>46474433
Holy shit. You're an evil genius. Or, an evil above average intelligence anon.
>>46474460
That is... Something, all right.
So I'm making some CofD homebrew. For my own group's use, worry not, I'm not going to inflict it on you. I'm sticking on two parts. One, Numina. The costs are all over the map, they don't have dots, or anything. Anyone got any ideas for classification and stratification without just going through and assigning it all one myself? My other option is just to steal one of the 'build a ritual' systems, like the lores in the back of Witchfinder.
The second one is the sort of stuff that would go for lesser templates. I need some ideas for Internal Alchemy. Refinement of the spirit and soul, and the body from that. Neija. I was thinking of stealing the quieter powers from Feng Tan and Lung Tan. I'm not averse to theft from either end of the age spectrum, but Feng and Lung Alchemies are pretty solid if you ignore the GOLDEN/BLACK SUPER TEMPEST bits. Other than that I'm short on ideas. Suggestions of published powers, new and old world?
(Also, I think it's hilarious that when I was rooting through Second Sight and the Ordo Dracul books for ideas, that in terms of raw transmutation ability, Mortal External Alchemy is vastly more potent than Blut Alchemie)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V76d6_04LLE
Behold the Onesong!
Kamen Rider Amazons came out, first 15 minutes (or more, haven't finished) is basically the best Hunter showcase.
>>46474676
I think Beast could be salvaged if you make it standalone (IE: none of the other splats even exist, non-Beast monsters are all strange freaky thing and anomalies like the jersy devil, aliens, mutated slashers, etc.) and consider the logistical probability of how many low morality heroes are possible in any given location (so its not so one sided with 1 hero out of 10 isn't a complete chimp.
The game isn't THAT bad if you read through it and ignore the inane as fuck example texts for Beast and Hero characters. And the crossover cancer.
>>46474745
Mothman Beast Ally? I could get behind this.
>>46474415
>implying you're preferences matter to the gay-dickwolves or their knots.
Anon plz, it's CoD/WoD
>>46474198
>>46474211
>>46474221
>>46474242
>>46474254
>>46474267
>>46474281
Goddamnit, I need to write porn.
>>46475044
Yes, it is a way to make money, but according to interviews with Amazon smut peddlers, you can only earn about US minimum wage.
>>46474706
[Technocracy Intensifies]
>>46475089
Seems fun, tho
>>46474734
Finished, entire thing is incredibly CofD.
>>46474779
I'm in a Mage campaign, and specialize in Time. I'll be fine, if only because I'll know where *knot* to be.
>>46467928
It's the chapter intro art for the Hunting Grounds section of the book.
>>46475572
what's with the floating, spectral gray face?
>>46475636
It's one Predator King versus five packmates.
Ok let say a mage has a familiar, and we known you can have your familiar go through different manifestation like possession.
Could a mage have his familiar claim someone and still keep that claimed as s familiar?
>>46467928
Yiff yiff motherfucket
>>46475812
A spirit strong enough to Claim someone is too strong to be a Familiar.
Soooo, when are we getting Secrets of the Covenants?
>>46476030
The mage can force a spirit to claim someone even at rank 1-2
When are we getting more detailed rules on spirits? Rank ups. Influence details. Maybe even an upper level that isn't a bastardisation of archmages.
>>46476048
A month or two. It's written in clanbook style, so it has a lot more art and layout work.
>>46476089
>Rank ups. Influence details. Maybe even an upper level that isn't a bastardisation of archmages.
Hopefully never, there's no need to bog them down with unnecessary mechanics, especially ones that only serve to cripple them as antagonists
>>46475812
a person claimed by a spirit is going to turn into a malformed freak of a thing but sure
>>46476137
Because no rules are better than some rules, right? Especially when the only current ones are crippling.
>>46476252
the current ones are basically "do what you want to make an antagonist that fits"
having it bogged down in prereqs is unnecessary
>>46476282
And do you follow the rules to make antagonists for other lines as though thry were characters?
What are the fonts used for the gamelines in Dark Eras?
>>46476354
for vampires/werewolves/mages yeah
but spirits aren't player characters
>>46472240
When I get an excuse to post a gargoyles reaction image and have it be relevant, I'm taking it.
>>46475812
Familiars are spirits or emboddied spirits
To keep the Claimed as a familiar, you'd need Familiar (Advanced)
>>46463190
>chronicles of fagness
>>46478331
Well in 2E familiar are just a ghost/spirit/goatic now you would need to have is use possession to make it embody now.
But I just recently found a off handed comment form dave about familiar and claiming.
Here a link
http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/mage-the-awakening/767030-familiars/page2
>>46478685
So would Familiar replace Twilight Form in the flowchart?
>>46478727
There is no replace. Twilight form is the base form, familiar manifestation prevent essence bleed. And maybe some other things we don't know about yet.
Can I ask a nWoD question here? Have been lurking, but no nWoD thread to be seem for a while. The question could also work in this thread too possibly?
I'm DMing a nWoD game because no one else ever learned to DM, and I'm trying out a US antebellum South setting. Is this taboo, or totally screwed for whatever reason? I'm keeping it low power.
>>46479119
>Have been lurking, but no nWoD thread to be seem for a while.
NWoD has been officially rebranded as Chronicles of Darkness (CofD), to distinguish it from the World of Darkness (formerly OWoD).
The creatures that lurk in the dark are everywhere, why would the South be any different?
Just posted up a new sample Pangaean, this time Harvest:
http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/werewolf-the-forsaken/855280-pangaea-unleashed?p=859687#post859687
>>46479165
Thanks for the info. Getting into this gets a little confusing at times. My main concern was WoD being situated in a certain era of time, and having weird or old fashioned tech being a limitation, but I can just balance that out during play.
>>46479226
CofD is largely setting agnostic, you can run it anywhere and anywhen
In Mage, when you're picking starting rotes, do they have to be rotes from your Order?
When you gm a campaign for new players, do you explain the setting and the tribes/covenant etc or you explain them in game?
>>46479180
>The names of 44 humans from the same community who all died of starvation, carved or inscribed into something; the created talisman or weapon only retains power for 44 days after the death of the last of the starving humans.
Is it just any 44 people who died of starvation in recent memory, with the last being the most current? Or does one always have to work backwards from the last person to die of starvation?
>>46479180
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0QDCTLgYCg
>>46474448
DID THAT GUY JUST PUNCH OUT A DEMON RAPTOR!?
>>46474448
>Theatre is playing The Valley of Gwangi and The Beast From 20 Fathoms
Ha!
This book has so much shit in it I need a goddamn flowchart. Has anyone made one before.
There's Testimonies and Hierarchies and Mythologies, and Testimonies only very rarely contain Secret Names, and the only way to learn a Secret Name is to already know its other form or ST fiat I assume?
And there are Magesplat proto-demons and Werewolfsplat proto-demons and mortalsplat proto-demons that all digivolve into demon-demons but which can also devolve back to level 0 Whisperers sometimes because of reasons or something. And there's this whole Venn diagram of categorization that desperately needs visual reference.
And you can summon things without Secret Names, and also there are at least 3 or more phases to summoning, including a 'negotiations phase' that actually is just *opening* negotiations and you finally negotiate the pact after that? But Dragon's Speech skips some number of those steps completely? And not everything summonable can even do pacts unless it has a secret name.
There's guidance for the costs of a Sacrifice for all traits except for supernatural traits, it doesn't say shit about what those cost the Indebted.
The various familiar merits are basically a different mechanical representation of the Lucifuge Castigation I guess. They even refer to the Possessed as a 'hunter' by accident.
>discorporates and returns to whatever Hell from whence it came. Sometimes, though, it latches onto its master and feeds off his memories, drinking deep of the hunter’s soul to sustain itself in ethereal form.
Except I didn't find any text like that in the Hunter book so it's not edited from there, is it elsewhere.
>>46479310
Technically, yes. As a general rule, though, any Rote in the 1e core has a version available to every Order, iirc.
>>46480036
Man up, Inferno is great
I'm now wondering whether Stew will bother revealing one of the sample Lodges in The Pack, given how far into production it is.
>>46480154
Didn't say it's not, if anything it's too great. Shit is dense.
>>46480194
>>46479180
Thanks for Harvest. Very nice.
However, isn't Armor 12 for a Rank 4 Pangaean in addition to all her other Powers a bit much?
Based on the spoilers for Mage 2e, does regular mundane armor protect against direct damage spells that use Reach for Sensory Range, and therefore normally deny the Target the benefit of any Defense?
Similarly, would armor apply when Reach is not used for Sensory Range, i.e., the spell is "thrown" at a Target?
>>46480461
Eh. It forces people to use the Bane. Which I like.
>>46470813
edgyyyyyyyyyyy
>>46480194
Chris, what rank would the Pangean Fire be?
>>46480036
>Demons aren't real
YES CATTLE WE- I mean demons don't exist.
Hey, do Baali really have an effect on Gehanna?
>>46480587
Does anything?
>>46480461
Nope. It's a Pangaean, not a push-over, and it emphasises the Bane.
>>46480565
Really quite high. Pretty sure it'd be 6+.
The fuck is a Pangean? Just an ancient spirit?
>>46480154
I too enjoy being able to fling agg damage and restore willpower while doing so. And be completely invulnerable as long as I shank a mother fucker first.
>>46480797
>whinging about being overpowered when Mages exist
>>46480775
Question.
How exactly does a Foraging influence work? How can I manipulate or control foraging? I get strengthen is going to be a dice pool bonus. How is it mass created? or even regular created? Is it going to spawn a thousand mushrooms? One mushroom? Some anthropomorphic concept of foraging?
>>46480834
>Manipulate: Make people forage
>Control: make people forage even when they have agriculture available to them
>>46480775
I'm a little iffy on the Rank system for entities in the CofD. Is it supposed to be an objective representation of power and influence in the setting? For example, Harvest and Fox, the sample Rank 4 and 5 Pangaeans seem far more powerful than any comparable Rank 4 or 5 Spirit.
>>46480855
But manipulate is only a minor change. And it doesn't involve people, just the activity. If you had an influence of Anger 2, you might be able to turn joy into charmed exasperation, at best.
>>46480785
>What is a Pangaean?
According to Dark Eras,
"Though similar to spirits, Pangaeans are — along with werewolves — the true natives of the Border Marches. They are powerful symbols of natural cycles and forces, the gods of weather, the seasons, and the animals. Unlike spirits, they are not reflections of the world but pillars of it — primeval divinities born in this rift between worlds. Each Pangaean possesses colossal power, and the Wise believe such an entity may even be a fallen inhabitant of the Supernal World, trapped between Flesh and Shadow by the end of the Time Before"
>>46480953
So how do the things that live inside the gauntlet relate to them, then?
>>46480983
>things that live inside the gauntlet
fuckin QUE!!?
>>46480534
>In Mage 2e, does regular mundane armor protect against direct damage spells that use Reach for Sensory Range?
I would think that mundane armor would offer no protection. The attack doesn't need to go through anything to affect the target, rather it attacks the Target's pattern directly.
However, whether armor would protect against a thrown spell would depend on the nature of the attack, and probably left to ST discretion. Dave did indicate that Defense does apply to these types of attacks.
>>46481004
I'm having trouble remembering the book, but it talked about a strange border realm. There were things inside that migrated according to their own strange whims, which reinforced or weakened the gauntlet and died if removed. To either side. The border realm is referenced in a few places, and I'm inclined to say it's related to things like city walking. Give me a minute to root through my paper books.
>>46481044
Summoners, page 61. Dwellers within the Gauntlet. Space 4, spirit 3 to look inside as a mage. Sample dwellers are called vergelings. Die in a second if summoned to shadow or material. They're explicitly only there to feed on the bleed voer created by verges, it mentions other varieties.
>>46480983
So how do the things that live inside the gauntlet relate to them, then?
Good question. Who knows. However, I believe many of the Pangaean who survived the Sundering escaped to the Shadow and Astral rather than survive in the Gauntlet.
This issue was actually discussed in depth on the OP forums.
http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/werewolf-the-forsaken/855280-pangaea-unleashed
>>46481099
What's the exact definition of 'border march' in this context? Because the Interior of the gauntlet is something pretty much like the lower depths.
>>46481095
>>46481123
Well that upsets my repacking of the Purified
>>46480953
Although I think Pangaeans are great, particularly their connection to Hosts, the modern Werewolf antagonists. However, I'm not thrilled with their implied Supernal connection. If feeds the "mage supremacy" nonsense.
>>46481149
You too, huh?
Honestly, the things inside aren't actual spirits, by the looks of it. Something LIKE it, but not really. The Purified aren't real spirits, either. If anything could force their way in and survive, at great risk, it'd be them.
What's the thrust of your rework of the Purified?
>>46481123
I don't see how the interior of the Gauntlet is comparable to any realm in the Lower Depths.
Dark Eras,
"THE BORDER MARCHES
A predator’s paradise lays a mere breath away from the physical world. Within it, the hunt is an eternal harmony. Spirit and flesh commingle, and prey of all kinds abounds. A human can walk there, if she knows the right places and the right paths. A spirit can escape there from the Shadow, if it finds where the shallows lie. This paradise is called the Border Marches by the People, but the Uratha call it Pangaea.
Pangaea spans the entire world, a borderland between the worlds of Flesh and Spirit everywhere. Just how deep into the wilderness a traveler needs to go to reach it can vary wildly, but prey flows constantly into its embrace. It is the domain of Urfarah, the Great Predator and Lord of Boundaries, and the realm of the Pangaeans — beings that straddle the Shadow and the material in their nature."
>>46481192
>What's the thrust of your rework of the Purified?
I'm a bad writer, so this will be ass. But essentially they don't become spirit-people by dying on a locus, when they die their soul gets pushed into the gauntlet and essentially gets spun round like a tumble dryerwith a brick in it, their soul getting torn and frayed at the edges.
Those that survive the transformation do so because their ritual pulls in enough spirit essence to fill in the gaps and they emerge on the other side a sort of human-nbut-not-quite as a result.
The idea is that whilst low powered, they are a sort of creature of in-betweens, and with the proper rituals they can cement the gaps (which tear open anew as they increase chi) with other mystical energies; allowing them to project into other realms (and get their shit pushed in immediately usually) and giving them a handful of minor other powers they can learn in addition to numen, at the cost of taking on disadvantages associated with those splats (akin to the Ban of Power numen giving spirits additional Bans in exchange for goodies).
>>46481312
Those who manage to divide
the layers of the Gauntlet to
look within discover a barren
non-realm, virtually devoid
of everything. Most describe
it as a misty gray nothingness, broken up only by
slightly thicker pockets
of silvery fog.
Reads as something devoid of something vital. But, I suppose Border Marches will eventually overtake it.
>>46481359
>>46481312
The Gauntlet IS the Border Marches, post-Sundering. Everything that was in the Border Marches when they collapsed became the things it describes right after that quote from Werewolf2e, that lurk just out of sight when you pass through the Gauntlet.
>>46480834
I had vague notions of it helping people who are foraging for food, causing an increase in the amount of stuff found, guiding behaviour of people and animals, etc.
>>46480893
It's *one* measure of power. Rank 4 and 5 Pangaeans absolutely will be far more powerful overall than Rank 4 and 5 spirits.
>>46481153
There's a reason why there are a number of theories presented about the Pangaeans in The Sundered World.
>>46481321
Oh, neat. I like it. Especially the 'ripping open and replacing chunks of the spirit'.
I was running with sort-of-but-not-quite spirits, myself. They're made the same way, but either stalk and murder spirits and steal some vital spark, a shard of their Atman, from their final discorporation or live on a path of spiritual refinement, similar to Dharma paths. One means constant competition, the other long periods of extreme devotion to one of the four aspects of their new soul. Neither is really set in stone, and changing path is possible.
I figured they needed some new form of power, so aside from some minor Siddhi changes and Numina, which are fluffed as the expression of their mortal nature mixed with immortal power, and immortal power mixed with mortal nature, respectively, they get a pair of extras. One for making minor artefacts and relics, feng shui on crack, etc, and the other a form of sorcery to replicate Influences, but not really. They're not spirit enough to get influences, so instead once they truly understand something, reprseented by skills, they can command it to a degree by replicating influences. You know, basically ripping off owod nomenclature.
>>46481321
>>46481502 again,
Oh: And morality wise, how does it work for you? I was going with humans being imperfect vessels for immortality mixing with an increase in their spirit nature. At higher levels, memory is fine, you don't show through any of your spirit nature, you can feed from damn near any condition, etc. At lower levels your memories get jumbled up (especially as they age), they need more and more resonant conditions, that sort of thing. At 0 they just erupt into full blown spirits, with influences determined by their skills/natures, so probably magath.
>>46481419
>There's a reason why there are a number of theories presented about the Pangaeans in The Sundered World.
True, and I agree with you. However, some people will see even the barest hint of a possible connection and start complaining about Mage cosmology trumping everyone else.
It's also a little more than a hint or theory when the Pangaean Hearts / Soul Stones actually create super Supernal Demesnes.
>>46481580
>It's also a little more than a hint or theory when the Pangaean Hearts / Soul Stones actually create super Supernal Demesnes.
I think people would be happy if they could paint a concrete alternative. They talk about some higher source sometimes, outlining it so that everything isn't secretly Supernal (or some degenerate form of the supernal) with no other options might be nice.
I have heard that pen and paper will be put on the back burner at White Wolf and video games will be the 'main form' of the new WoD. Is there any truth to this? Are the 20th anniversary games all we're going to get in terms of pen and paper? Because, if that's the case, that sucks major ass.
>>46481949
First they'll need to actually release a video game.
With difficulty numbers, is there a set rule for translating them to CofD's 'one and done' successes?
>>46481949
I doubt TTRPG's will be affected much by the obvious desire of Paradox to expand the WW IP into other media venues.
Onyx Path has the relevant TTRPG licenses, and unless their work actually threatens to diminish the value of the IP, a very unlikely prospect, not much should change for CofD, and only minor alternations to the 20th Anniversary lines will be necessary to maintain Paradox's vision for classic WOD. Further, Paradox has decided to produce WOD 4th Edition games in-house.
>>46482094
>WOD 4th Edition games in-house
Is that confirmed? If so, do we know anything other than they said a year or so ago that they were going to do it?
>>46482084
If something should be difficult, give them a dice penalty based on why it's difficult/how hard it should be.
What exactly does Integrity do?
Is there any benefit to having high Integrity over low Integrity? From everything I've read in the core book, it seems like Integrity's only purpose is to be lowered by breaking point rolls.
It just seems really underwhelming, seeing as supernaturals' Integrity counterparts actually have effects on gameplay outside of breaking points.
>>46482228
I gathered, but if there's a set rule - X equals X as a penalty - I'd rather use that.
>>46482259
Isn't there a social penalty for being low morality.
>>46482259
Like morality before it, it assists mortals in ritually combating ephemeral entities via Abjuration and such.
>>46482260
Well, there's the simple rules of mathematics: 3 dice == 1 success on average, so +1 difficulty == a -3 penalty.
This isn't strictly true in the case of, e.g., 8- and 9-again, where a -3 penalty is slightly worse than a +1 difficulty, but not by much.
>>46482199
>>WOD 4th Edition games in-house by Paradox
It's confirmed
https://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1156853
>>46482546
>NeoGAF
Vomit.
>>46482613
I'm not actually familiar with Neogaf. They just came up as one of the first links in a Google search on the topic and they had the pertinent press releases and corporate comments.
Do you believe the Onyx Path and Paradox information is incorrect?
>>46482329
The Hardened Exorcist Merit counteracts that by letting you add your dots in Occult to your Integrity for purposes of determining Abjuration bonuses.
>>46482715
>Do you believe the Onyx Path and Paradox information is incorrect?
Oh I dunno, NeoGAF is just literally the most cancerous echo chamber on the face of the internet. Tumblr aspires to be NeoGAF.
>>46482259
Aren't you still supposed to get Derangements from lowering it, only now it's Conditions and not exclusively mental illness?
>>46482774
Nope
>>46482779
Huh, then I have no clue where I got that idea from. I always figured that if you were Spooked or Shaken enough, it's mutate into lasting conditions like Paranoid or Hair-Trigger Temper or something.
>>46482325
Where? In 1e's Gothic downward spiral of sin and madness?
>>46482259
>• Angels are mechanisms in the God-Machine, and like any machine they are sustained by fuel. God-Machine cultists sacrificing precious resources (metaphorical or literal), animals, or even humans to the angel in its presence allow it to regain the Resources value of the item or animal, or the current Integrity of a human sacrifice, as Essence.
It makes you tastier.
>>46482774
Very few Conditions are anywhere near as Persistent as derangements were, and they can only ever be inflicted on a Dramatic Failure.
And even they don't require raising Integrity as the means of curing it. Losing a dot and an Exceptional Success work too.
>>46481949
As far as I know, the main focus of oWoD is going to be video games and other multimedia tie-ins, but they still need the tabletop games as the backbone for everything else to draw off of.
Think of Marvel Comics continuing to publish print comics, even though those lose them money, because they serve as new source material to mine for their insanely-profitable movies.
>>46482325
Going mad is orthogonal with low Integrity.
>>46482259
Some things use it. It's niche. The sanity meter is one of those things that you don't really notice until it's gone. Like your soul.
Also for some reason I can't find any actual rules in either GMC or The Chronic for what happens when you hit Integrity 0.
>>Madness (Persistent)
>Your character saw or did something that jarred her loose from reality. This isn’t a mental illness born of brain chemistry — that, at least, might be treatable. This madness is the product of supernatural tampering or witnessing something that humanity was never meant to comprehend. The Storyteller has a pool of dice equal to 10 – (character’s Integrity). Once per chapter, the Storyteller can apply those dice as a negative modifier to any Mental or Social roll made for the character.
>>46483415
Baggy trousers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8gVGH8ewQ8
>>46483415
>Also for some reason I can't find any actual rules in either GMC or The Chronic for what happens when you hit Integrity 0.
I don't think Integrity 0 is a thing.
Other gamelines specifically note that there is a 0 value and point out what happens there (Mages go Mad, Vampires go draugr, Demons don't have the slightest shred left of that Cover, Werewolves.. are just at the absolute extreme end of the Spirit side of the scale and need to go eat some hot dogs so they can stop shapeshifting uncontrollably every turn), but for Mortals it seems to be absent.
>>46483483
Obviously SOMETHING happens when you fail a breaking point at Integrity 1.
>>46483532
I just assumed you die. Your brain just goes "nah" and turns off.
