In human evolution, we wuz persistence hunters who basically tracked and stalked prey until they collapsed out of exhaustion and became easy.
What sort of primitive hunting techniques do you think defined the early evolution of the other main fantasy races?
>elves were ambush predators
>halflings were scavengers
>dwarves were subterranean persistence hunters?
The problem is that since they're so human like they all look like persistence hunters. Just really awkward ones.
>R I N G W O R L D
>I
>N
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>W
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>D
>>46375390
>What sort of primitive hunting techniques do you think defined the early evolution of the other main fantasy races?
Their gods waved their hands and created the races just as they appear.
Just like how humans appeared.Ha ha, you thought you could have fun in this thread but you were wrong
>>46375390
I actually would have said that with their higher strength but lower mobility dwarves would be the ambush predators, I'm imagining trap-door spider style pits and jumping out and wrestling their prey to the ground.
>>46375390
Evolution of intelligent species in fantasy settings is generally dumb as shit.
You go through the trouble of explaining how they all evolved, then you have to come up with some embarrassingly stupid reason why they elves didn't exterminate the humans or the orcs didn't exterminate the humans or the dwarves didn't exterminate the humans, since we're all pretty much occupying the same niche, pre-civilization at least, and unless the elves are millions of years older than the other races they would have evolved from creatures that competed and existed alongside the creatures that evolved into humans and dwarves etc.
Humans killed and/or fucked the neanderthals to extinction, we killed off entire peoples and cultures during our early history, and we hunted all the megafauna to extinction, there's no reason the sentient races in a fantasy setting would be any nicer.
If you make a fantasy setting without a cooler creation story than evolution, you're missing an opportunity.
>>46376686
Considering that all the species are on the same level mentally and physically you could just say that no one was able to exterminate the others pre-civilization. Not to mention that for species like Dwarves the completely different biomes they inhabit would mean that there would be little competition and interaction.
HOL UP
>>46375390
Write up coming on the biomechanics of fantasy races but for now
Elves:ranged predators, their long limbs, keen eyesight, and coordination make them perfect for hitting small game with stones, or larger game with throwing spears or atlatls. They also appear naturally skilled with bows so this lends support.
Orcs: orcs vary from warhammer orcs who are broader then they are wide, to tes orcs who are green humans. Anyways most if their musculature would likely be for fighting other males in competition for females instead of hunting, and we can see in almost all universes that they naturally arrange themselves in tribe systems with one leader (who usually gets several, or all of the females). I want to think that they would actually be like gorrilas and eat plants for energy, after all they don't seem very specified to any kind of hunting and would burn a shit load of energy.
More coming later
>>46377043
Maybe orcs hunted and fished like grizzlies.
>>46377253
They would have to be omnivorous,
>>46377043
Halflings: based on the diets if homo florensies, and pygmies who both fall into the same size category as halflings, they would eat mostly fruit and insects, but would hunt even elephants sometimes with spears and poison darts
Their stature indicates a environment in which food is incredibly scarce.
>>46377043
>TES orcs are green humans.
Hahaha. Oh. Good one.
>>46378131
Green elves, which are humans with pointy ears and stretched eyes
Compared to other universes tes races are bland, I still love it though
>>46378131
>tes orc
>>46378131
>>46378329
>warhammer orc
One of these is just a recolered human and the other is an actual fantasy beast race
No race would have developed any other sort of hunting technique. Our specific circumstances led to our sapience and elevation from living like beasts.
If they were to evolve to have human intelligence, then they would have had to have been persistence hunters as well. Ambush predators and scavengers would make little use of sapience.
>>46378237
Oh wow, I can't believe someone even considers TES 'bland' compared to whatever mediocre low-fantasy trash they read. You'd think by 2016 people would be smart enough to avoid having such bad taste.
>>46377562
So?
Large powerful bodies, fast in a sprint, eating whatever they need to to survive, sounds like orcs.
>>46378419
>What are neandrathals?
>what are pygmies
>what is a homo Florensies
>what is any non african species of hominid
Fucking kill yourself you idiot, take a cost hanger and gut yourself starting at the belly button
>>46378479
I like tes, I like it alot. I have thousands of hours in the games and know alot about the lore.The races are boring, especially orcs. Their Saving grace is their cultures
Also warhammer>anything
>>46379467
Even their humans have innate magical powers and things like frost resistance though. That's a lot more going on than many fantasy settings.
>>46378921
I know I was agreeing with you, I accidently sent the message before I added the parts about how i thoght the orcs would have to be either had to be like gorillas or bears (specialized herbavores so they can get more nutrients from plants) or omnivores because it's unlikely they'd be getting 6000 calories of meat a day
>>46379526
Yeah I suppose
>>46379408
I don't totally agree with him but hominids by and large seemed to have evolved their defining features by being scavengers and/or peristence hunters. If you're planning to make them very humanlike then there really has to be a reason that they are both bipedal and hairless. There are many reasons they can be one or both but you can't just pick willy nilly and have them develop features they never had use for.
>>46379467
>The races are boring
You just jelly because you've never gotten so high you accidentally a space program, and that your species is limited to the same morphological breed
>>46379408
Dead, that's what they are.
Any surviving sapient species that exists in the same environment as other sapient species has to have come from a persistence hunter background.
>>46375390
Anyways dwarves are ambush predators like neandrathals, their bodies do not have the heat venting to allow human style chase hunting nor is their hip structure able to acommadate sprinting.
Dwarves would surround prey, then atrack in groups with Melee weapons (almost invariably axes or spears). Dwarves would likely be very strong and have insane bone strength , using the square cube law we get these figures
Fit young human male can bench press 200 (this is just an easy estimate of strength, i could use many different benchmarks), and weighs 200 lbs.
Dwarf is 2/3 human height (6ft human, 4 ft dwarf)
That would give us a creature which weighs roughly a quarter of a humans weight, of the strength (strength is determined by cross section of the muscle)
So our proto dwarf weighs 57.5 and can bench 87 lbs
But now we have to remember that dwarfs are twice as wide as humans, giving them four times the muscle cross section, making then 4 times as strong and as heavy
Weighs 230
Benchs 348
And this isn't accounting for the beserk rage many dwarfs have (especially when drinking) or the fact that they may have different ratios of muscle (such as more fast twitch muscles or different muscle proportions, ie: bug chest small legs)
>>46376807
That's the thing though. There is not catch up mechanics in real life. In a race war, someone eventually dies. Even if the fight is more or less balanced, eventually one will have a struck of luck over the other, outbreed, survive a plague or tough winter, and then the others never recover. It's not like a game where when you are losing, you gain a bonus trait to push it back to the middle.
Physiologically, every one of those "fantasy races" or "sci fi aliens" are almost always bipedal tool-using great apes almost perfectly matching humans. (Except occasionally the skull, which more often than not, is a bipedal tool-using great ape with an illogical animal skull strapped to the neck)
![Font-de-Gaume[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/FdKf64E.jpg "Font-de-Gaume[1].jpg")
>>46375390
>What sort of primitive hunting techniques do you think defined the early evolution of the other main fantasy races?
I've actually thought about this a little bit more than perhaps other people since my setting DID suffer through some level of evolution/natural selection:
>Humans & Centaurs
Persistent/Stamina hunters on open plains, savannas, etc.. Eventually ended up working together at a very early stage of development. The definitive nomads.
>Orcs
Didn't actually do that much hunting. Used their excellent sense of smell to root around and forage. Ambushed or lead prey into glens or swamps when they could in between scavenging. Ironically discovered agriculture very early.
>Elves
Almost entirely herbivorous and didn't hunt: foraged for fruits, nuts, seeds and insects. Later on in development began hunting via ambush from Trees or Foliage- Waspish and thin- have no stamina for running, but are excellent at climbing, swinging and fleeing in 'bursts'.
>Cyclopes
Lived entirely by the ocean using their great height to wade into deeper waters to subsisting off of kelp, seals, fish, shellfish, etc.. Excellent swimmers and divers. The uniquely monocular eye of the cyclop is jerry-rigged to provide excellent depth perception and vision underwater, but not so good on dry land.
>Changelings
Very literal ambush predators and some of the best. Would join together in large groups to collectively shapeshift into bushes, trees, rocks, etc to form artificial 'glades' near game trails where they would ambush or corral prey items. Hunting played a huge part in dramatically increasing the intelligence and social spectrum of their species- Previously used their shapeshifting to hide from predators or attract mates, but hunting provided creative pressure.
>>46380282
Those were really cool ideas, especially the cyclops, my orc idea is similair, theur duet is like pigs
>>46378921
>fast
>>46380225
So long as the races had acceptable separation I see no reason to assume they would have genocide each other. Really the races in D&D aren't exactly different species, they are really more like sub races to human (or some other over species). Just a greater extension of the sub species division we see in humans today. More so of course.
We have plenty of large population groups of races, and for a long time (and really still do) had recognizable races within those larger groups. Not all Africans are exactly the same, nor Asians, etc.
The D&D races though are certainly hostile enough to each other (especially orcs) that there would have been genocide in their locally dominated environments of course.
>>46380389
A planet that starts with a large pangea like continent that then drift apart could justify this. Something like a common ancestor with different adaptations spread all across the pangean continent and as the continental drift separates them, those ancestrals proceed to evolve into humanoid races and only meet again when technology and needs drive them to set out across natural barriers like mountains, ice sheets and oceans. Alternatively, dwarves could be driven into the mountains to escape genocide. Elves hid on jungle/forest to avoid the savannah alpha dogs (humans), and orcs went to swamps and shitholes for the same reason. A agressive group (humans) driver others groups of near humans out their territory where they evolve specialized bodies.
>>46380462
It could simply be handled by migration as well. In the case of Dwarves they simply migrated in to an area of heavy mountains that happened to have access to the underdark. Finding food/resources that they could exploit to their advantage they stayed and adapted to the environment. Heck, we have that sort of thing now with - just no underdark part.
The rest work the same. The real problem is that most campaigns have the various races living very close together in mixed smaller populations. Rather than saying 'this continent is elves, this one humans, this one etc'. They mix all the races together in something often smaller than Europe.
The Dwarves could probably be anyplace I suppose, just depending on where their tunnels take them. But if we wanted to be more Darwin about things then I think that the other races would need serious separation to justify a lack of genocide/absorption.
There would likely be tension, or outright warfare (looking at you orcs) in areas where the races touched. Although it would be perfectly fine to have adventure parties of mixed races walking around - adventurers being special snowflakes anyhow.
>>46380462
Implying humans wouldn't get fucked up by elves with atlatls or orcs with clubs. Fuck even dwarves would rek humans
Litteraly what
>>46380462
>humans
>dominant
Elfs and the beta races would rule past the medieval eras and the beast races before then
>>46380462
SMALL
>>46380868
HUMAN
>>46380886
PENIS
>>46380886
PENISES
>>46380886
DICKS
>>46380777
Why would you think that? Especially in the case of Dwarves, as we do not compete for the same territory/resources.
>>46380777
We outbreed all of those races, except maybe orcs, but we outsmart them at every turn. orcs have primitive metalkworking in iron age / late medieval age settings. Fair to assume when everyone was stone age, they were barely able to break twigs of a branch to scratch their asses with.
>>46380868
>>46380886
>>46380915
>>46380920
>>46380953
Humans have the largest penis compared to most mammals except equinas, and the absolut e winner in size among primates. Forget your racist inspired fantasies...Orcs get cucked by humans. We are the largest meat cannon in the loincloth land.
![Каменный_век_(1)[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/t4xoIMv.jpg "Каменный_век_(1)[1].jpg")
>>46380282
(Continued)
>>46380333
>Those were really cool ideas, especially the cyclops, my orc idea is similar, theur duet is like pigs
Kind words, thank you Anon! Here's a couple more:
>Goblins
A primitive species that developed during a relatively modern or contemporary time. Existed and subsisted entirely on the basis of MASS reproduction and MASS consumption- often prey to many dangers. Main secondary survival tactic: steals and lovingly raises the children of other humanoid species to protect their own small kind.
>Dwarves
Lives almost entirely underground only coming out at night. Master diggers with short powerful bodies- use their muscles and senses to scrounge up roots, worms, mushrooms and can even eat dirt if they have to. Uses wrestling and stone tools to kill.
>Trolls
Regeneration causes massive mutation and real-time adaptation. Uses massive size and ferocity to steal kills, but is otherwise a sluggish scavenging omnivore. Will catch fire if exposed to direct sunlight.
Well, since we are in the topic of the development and evolution of primitive cultures, how common would infanticide and its variations be? IRL it was pretty much onipresent in a way or another in just about every single pre-industrial society.
How would monstergirls, who due to genes, all males are stillborn, and females are forced by breed with other humanoid males, function?
>>46381164
Oh, I was just responding to a post that said humans would drive off all the other species. I share your oppinion that humans wouldn't fight most other races for territory In the ancient eras, it wouldn't be until they reached a classical era level of technological and social development that any real wars would take place for territory.
I was just stating that orcs and tribal elves would best tribal humans
>>46381481
And how would the different variants of monstergirls react towards each other?
>>46381223
Le elves only have kids every thousand years meme
Anyways we breed at the same rate as dwarves they just live in a less conducive environment for growth
>>46381492
>I was just stating that orcs and tribal elves would best tribal humans
That is the part I'm not seeing. I'm not saying that humans win. But I'm not seeing humans lose either.
What advantage would orcs/elves have over humans that would allow them to destroy humans? I understand that it sort of depends on the version of those races we are imagining (or the game system for that matter). But in general I don't see them having a major advantage.
Elves, unless we allow innate magical fuckery, would likely be the race that is destroyed first. Owing to what is usually seen as a low birth rate.
Orcs might do it, as they are often described as being very fast breeders. But even then we take them out with our intelligence (sort of a Neanderthal thing, we did it one time already).
Of course we are just playing imagination against imagination here. But I think there are as many reasons to assume a draw as there are to assume a victor on any given side.
Although I think the Halflings would be fucked unless they adapted to live in really shitty circumstances and were very very heavily isolated. But as they are typically described they are fucked.
>>46381223
Literally any Quadrapedal mammal has a bigger proportional dick
A 120lb great Dane has a 9 inch dick
>>46381358
In high testosterone, high agresssion societies (orcs, dwarves) very common. Doubly so if there are singular tribal chieftains.
In beta bitch elf societies near zero
Humans in the middle
>>46381481
They'd be nature's cum dumps
>>46381523
They'd compete for semen
They might band up but it would be all about getting their wombs painted
>>46375390
>we wuz hunters n shit
SHIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEEETTTTTTTTTTTT
>>46381650
>(sort of a Neanderthal thing, we did it one time already)
Modern theory is that the Neanderthal never really went extinct; they just interbred with ancient humans to the point that there was no difference anymore. There's a bit of evidence to it too; most people with European ancestry share a lot of physical traits with Neanderthals, and scientists believe that Neanderthals were the origin of lighter hair colors in Europeans.
>>46381650
>What advantage would orcs/elves have over humans that would allow them to destroy humans?
Warhammer fanstasy orks are a fungus, and can grow exponentially incredibly fast. They can carpet a continent in less than a decade. The only thing that prevents then from doing this Is infighting. They are naturally huge af and good warriors, and have an instinctive knowledge of war and weapons.
In general, fantasy orcs reach full sexual maturity at about 2/3ds the human rate. Have more kids. And have a clear pack structure. They're natural warriors, usually beserkers, from birth, they are biggerx tougher, stronger, and deadlier than humans.
Elves start out with a solution to the biggest problem in the ancient world for societal development, they can pass down knowledge through the ages because they live so fucking long. Theirs a chance we could see a written language and culture in the first generation. Elves in general are equal to humans fighting, countering strength with agility, and and are vastly superior in any form of ranged warfare.
Tribal elves would just use skirmish tactics to kill humans and then retreat, losing even a single man in an ancient tribe was a crippling blow.
>>46382240
That had some effect, but the reality is there used to be a bunch of them. We couldn't have just fucked the out of existence, they had larger numbers. While there might not have been just outright warfare, at the least we out competed them in hunting and destroyed them that way.
Regardless, I think the point stands. Just because orcs are (now, but didn't used to be) described as being stronger than humans that is no reason to assume that we would simply be defeated. It didn't work that way at least one time.
>>46382312
That same Elf advantage could also mean that they never evolve socially (technologically) at all. Gramps isn't going to change, and now he isn't going to die either. The Old Guard functionally never changes.
>>46378329
Ugh. I honestly hate how much more man/mer like they made the Orcs in Skyrim.
Really, I just didn't like Skyrim compared to the other games in the series. Too dumbed down.
>>46375390
orcs are extreme omnivores whose stomach can take on basically anything short of genuine poison or strong acids. they evolved from wild boars and thus have a natural affinity for beets and mushrooms, which they cultivated early on. they're not hunters by nature, but like the prehistoric entelodon hog, they're predators "by chance": animals that have no reliable way of escaping them (like rats or snails) are part of their regular diet, and they will lash out violently against animals that bother them, usually killing them and then eating them. that includes humans, even among highly socially stratified orc cultures that are considered up to par with or even above human societies in terms of civilization. orcs have also adopted human hunting techniques (like trapping) fairly soon after first contact, but have felt no need to hunt for big game in any way, an exception being the forcefully subjugated and "humanized" orc clans of the Old Capital.
[/blog]
>>46376229
Literally the explination one of my sperg friend's old setting used. Gods just make Greek-era races which then didn't progress for a few thousand years before becoming medieval societies over night and then not progressing for another five thousand years.
>>46382240
>most people with European ancestry share a lot of physical traits with Neanderthals
Like being ugly, aging badly and having the worst fucking teeth on Earth? No wonder y'all had to shit in literally every gene pool on the planet, like, I'd be salty too if I looked in the mirror and saw some kinda half-man look back at me.
>>46382430
Someone's upset.
>>46382411
if you read 19th century historiography, that is what people actually believed. gradual change as a concept didn't exist because everyone was an idiot.in 100 years, people will laugh at our history books because we were all idiots
>>46382495
These were not 19th century antiquarians. These were inbred rural Alabama hicks.
>>46382430
Don't worry, those Neaderthal-blooded bastards are getting a healthy infusion of primal humanity to help purify their bloodlines.
>>46382430
>shitskin detected
>>46382312
I would disagree. Their ability to develop writing would probably be less than humans, simply because they have less use of it when people remember everything for centuries anyways. No point in establishing writing.
>>46382362
Imagine if Albert Einstein had lived 1000 years. Imagine if stalin had. There could literally be millenia long cultural and scientific revoloutions.
When Elfs are 90 they don't act like a hundred year old man, they are still acting like a kid trying to change the world
>>46383340
But why aren't Elves the master race anon?
If they can't fuck as much then they die out before they can exist due to orcs and humans
So the Elves have to live long and breed fast enough , do they have an insane culture?
>>46383340
That is one possibility. There are others. In a lot of settings Elves are sort of a hide bound traditional lot. Not exactly innovators. Slow to change, all that.
It could easily work out the other way. Your Elf Einstein might have been shut down because he was suggesting things work differently than what the elders knew in their youth to be the truth.
What if you did have Elf Stalin? Would he be all about innovation within his power circle? Encouraging change and development? Or are we talking about killing off anyone who might start to look important so as to not threaten his power?
I tend to agree that if we had a super long lived race it would drastically dominate everyone else. But there could be cultural or other issues that could stop that from happening as well.
Imagine elf japan from their feudal era - never changing until forced to from outside.
>>46375390
I always liked the psychology that the Ur Quan had from their evolution as solitary and fiercely territorial apex predators.
>>46383677
They aren't the master race because of the breeding problems but their still competitive at any age in history.
They breed fast enough because one they reach sexual maturity at 40-200 they can have kids at the same pace as humans for a thousand years, they also have low mortality rates due to immunity to disease (atleast in tes) and their peaceful nature
>>46384068
They have foresight, if humans could live that long I am pretty sure we be a advancing faster.
The issue is of population stabiltiy and numbers
Which means magic can make levels of population of the modern day in the bronze age
Imagine if Thomas Aquinas could have been a professor to Albert Einstein and that Einstein still had his chair at Princeton today?
It be radically different. If those thinkers were alive to teach a lot more people
>>46384212
>Einstein still had his chair at Princeton today?
You assume he would have been able to get it in the first place. Uhg the stone chipper would still hold that seat for hundreds of more years yet.
>>46384299
That's the point. Literally so many intellectuals and so much more volume of thought
>>46384346
Prof Uhg may feel that stone chipping is the only science worth exploring, crushing out all other inquiries. He sure as fuck isn't going to be happy about a new upstart doing something that would eclipse him.
>>46384449
After 10 centuries if radical change professor uhg would be pretty progressive
>>46375390
Bunp
>>46388070
Fuck that was on page 11
>>46382395
Something that's evolved from boars would realistically speaking be very alien, much more so than the demi-human orcs and dwarves etc you tend to see.
I'd favour deriving nonhuman humanoid races from a primate root. If you go outside of that, the closest non-primate relatives of humans are treeshrews and rodents, so ratmen preferable to pigmen or catmen.
>>46379467
>warhammer>anything
Kill yourself.
>>46380370
bears are pretty fast over short distances
>>46381654
a nine inch tiny spike, anon. Humans pack trunks with semen scrapers to remove the children of their enemies.
>>46383677
>But why aren't Elves the master race anon?
>implying
>>46379467
40kids are the worst.
