Rereading Conan after all these years really made me realise something.
How did the idea of the "barbarian" get so far away from the Conan-ian archetype?
Barbarians don't know fear.
Conan routinely runs away from fights (he knows he can't win), he runs away from various eldritch horrors that aren't from Earth, and he runs away from a vampire girl after giving off empty threats of ramming some steel in her.
And this idea of the barbarian as some retard that just knows how to hit people, Conan can read, knows a goddamn million languages as well as ancient long-dead hieroglyphs, etc. Hell, eventually he conquers a kingdom stuck in civil war, and becomes king. A king that is beloved by its people, which logically means he is smart enough to run a state.
Barbarians hate magic and magic-users, but Conan will happily use magic, and ask for help of magicians if it benefits him. If Conan has been born in civilized lands, he'd probably have become a magician or priest himself, he's a smart fucker.
How did this happen? How?
>>46348621
>How did this happen? How?
The influence of the film. Technically he was educated in that, too, but Arnold's wooden acting belies that.
>>46348621
Well, barbarian was a term for uneducated not-romans long before conan. Presumably it was a mixing of these two sources that led to the typical barbarian we have in dnd today.
Besides, Conan had classes in thief and fighter. Everyone knows that.
>>46348621
This, if you read the books conan is completely different to the typical barbarian, he is smart and practical as fuck and is always learning
>>46348834
that said he was atypical for his setting's barbarians too.
>>46348893
well, that's also true
>>46348621
Multiclassed rogue.
>>46348834
That's because the idea of a civilization or entire tribes made of retards who don't even know how to read or do math or anything except fighting is retarded as fuck.
Probably because people who created that archetype didn't know shit about societies.
So yeah, Conan actually IS a barbarian. It's just that the archetype is shit
>>46348621
After Howard died, other authors took up the job of writing Conan. A lot of them weren#t very good.
Also other media (comic strips, radio plays etc.)
tended to focus on the Babarian aspect above all else.
>>46348621
>Barbarians hate magic and magic-users, but Conan will happily use magic, and ask for help of magicians if it benefits him.
Ehm, no? Conan has a decided distrust and supersticious fear of all things magic.
>>46348621
Conan still is a barbarian by birthright alone, thing is that he lives in a world and dabbles in dealings that require more than just a big sword and an angry yell. A common barbarian of his world doesn't live long enough to fear a warlock who throws a meteorite at them or live to actually see one (that is worthy of being feared) while Conan has seen all the shit his little corner of reality has to offer and has grown smarter off it.
Because the only thing that made Conan a barbarian was his title. He was one of the earliest Western antiheroes because his excuse for ignoring social customs when they were stupid was "lol I am a Cimmerian, get fucked".
Even he realized he jumped the shark when he became king.
>>46348955
Have you even read his stories?
In the Hour of the Dragon (which I'm reading right now) he gets help from a witch who predicts the future for him, and uses magic to kill off a magical spy tracking Conan, he then gets help from a sect of priests that are implied to practice necromancy, divination and other magical arts, and he gets the directions to leave a temple he's lost in from a zombie.
Just because he distrusts and fears magic doesn't mean he refuses to use it.
Just started reading the complete conan collection.
I m really enjoying the world the stories and the reference to problem of the 1930s.
in the slithering shadow it clearly shows the ravage of opium. filthy degenerate as conan would say.
I m waiting for the RPG coming this june.
>>46348955
>Ehm, no? Conan has a decided distrust and supersticious fear of all things magic.
he still utters a mgic ritual at some point but never really performs magic.
>>46348955
>Ehm, no? Conan has a decided distrust and supersticious fear of all things magic.
For good reason, as it turns out. Hyborian magic is dangerous as hell and often involves human sacrifices, pacts with evil spirits, and terrible prices.
>>46348937
also this, historical "barbarians" where people like any others, they would develop their own cultures and technological advancements
>>46348987
>Just because he distrusts and fears magic doesn't mean he refuses to use it.
Not the same as "Conan will happily use magic".
Pretty much every story has some line about the "superstitious dread" of the baarbarians of all things magic.
At the end of scarlet Citadel Conan loudly proclaims that all magic and wizards can go to hell, whether they mean him well or no.
In people of the Black circle he say something along the lines of an honest blade being better than any foul magic.
I'm sure there are more examples, these are just of the top of my head.
>>46348990
>he still utters a mgic ritual at some point but never really performs magic.
I think it was a warding formular or omething?
>>46348621
1. The modern barbarian borrows heavily from the Viking berserkers.
2. The film version of Conan borrowed several elements from Kull the Conqueror, a more savage kind of barbarian.
>>46349092
>I think it was a warding formular or omething?
You fool!
He invokes the name of Jebel Sag, the Master of Beasts!
It almost gets him killed, too, because it is forbidden for those outside the clergy to invoke his authority.
>>46348621
This is pretty standard practice in RPGs, The vast majority of archetypes in modern fantasy have only a loose relationship with their eponyms and inspirations from history,literature and myth.
The original Paladins were the mythologised knights of Charlemagne's court, exemplars of chivalry but lacking any divine powers such as "laying on hands" that defines the modern version.
The historical druids were priests, lawyers and poets to the Celtic tribes. They were attributed magical powers but were hardly avatars of "Gaia's vengeance".
The Ranger is named after the Dunedain woodsmen in LOTR where Aragorn is first and foremost. The importance of animal companions is an extension of the idea but one that is noticeably lacking in the source material.
There are regular threads about how Paladins./ Elves/ Dwarves/ Dragons/ whatever as presented by D&D and other games/books in its wake differ from older material. Threads on caster supremacy usually devolve into arguments about whether fighters should be constrained by "realism" while mages get a free pass to break the laws of physics when you have heroes such as Beowulf who are ostensibly mortal but preform outlandish feats with no supernatural justification.
Modern fantasy, particularly in rpgs, uses the same terminology of history and legends but is very much it's own self-contained set of concepts. It would be easier to list archetypes that have not been significantly altered from their source material.
>>46349152
I might have benn thinking of Almalric?
It's been a while.
>>46348621
The barbarian class was originally very different from what became the barbarian in 3e. In the beginning they were more like a spell-less ranger. The first version of the Barbarian, introduced in Dragon #63, is described like this:
>Barbarians are a sub-class of fighters who are adept at many skills necessary for survival in a hostile environment. These skills include rapid movement, climbing, use of many weapons, certain “sixth senses,” and many secondary and tertiary skills. They are likewise tough and able to recover from damage quickly.
These barbarians have the following skills and abilities:
- they have a fast movement rate
- they are good at climbing
- they are good at hiding
- they have Survival, First Aid, Outdoor Craft (identifying plants, animals, direction, etc) and Tracking as secondary skills
- they have Animal Handling, Horsemanship, Long Distance Signalling (think smoke signals), Running, Small Craft Paddled/Rowed (building and using canoes and boats basically), Sound Imitation (pretending to be a bird) and Trap Building as tertiary skills
- they are good at surprising opponents and hard to surprise themselves
- they can detect and counter attacks from behind
- they are good at leaping and springing
- they can detect illusions
- they can detect magic
- they get bonus charisma when dealing with other barbarians
And of course they are pretty tough fighters as well. It's worth noting that a lot of their abilities work best in terrain the barbarian is familiar with. However, they are illiterate by default, and hate arcane magic (it says they will tolerate clerics to a degree), so those have been features from the beginning.
What 3e calls the barbarian is more like what previous editions called a berserker, mixed with elements of the original barbarian.
>>46349210
To be honest, on Beowulf, there's a question whether Beowulf is human.
The original text uses a word that no one knows, mainly to describe Grendel, but it's IIRC at least once used to describe Beowulf as well.
Linguists typically translate this word with monster, which would imply that perhaps Beowulf isn't so human as the common Beowulf saga translations make you think.
>>46349001
That's all because Conan's world is a 'prehistoric' version of Lovecraft's world.
Which automatically makes Conan the smartest Lovecraftian protagonist ever.
>fuck this shit, i'm not waiting until the thing from beyond the stars comes and drives me insane, i'm gonna run as hard as my legs carry me right now
Wasn't he originally introduced as Conan the Cimmerian? Where did the barbarian part first get introduced? The movie?
>>46349227
Naw, my friend.
Conan the Warrior, iirc, the story where he is a merc and the local wilderness population outside... the country that starts with an A, has gathered for a big scrap.
The leader is a child of Jebel Sag, something Sag, and sends a commanded jaguar to track Conan and another soldier. Conan countermands the order with his own symbol, and Jebel Sag gets so assblasted he sends a demon unicorn after him.
>>46348621
Conan is a Rogue(thief) 8/ Fighter (Eldritch knight) 12 with the Outlander background.
Except for running around in a lioncloth he has nothing to do with DnD barbarians.
>>46349238
that sounds like a great class, why did they changed it? also thanks for clarifying
>>46349240
He might be figuratively monsterous but I don't know any interpretation that says he's a literal monster.
>>46349290
In one of the unfinished drafts, Almaric (the protag, it's one of those stories with little Conan in it) uses an formular to ind a demon in it#s human shape so he can kill it.
>>46348621
>How did the idea of the "barbarian" get so far away from the Conan-ian archetype?
I wonder the same about Wizards.
>>46349116
Viking Berserkers were champions who took the Jarl's place in duels. I don't see what that has to do with raging illiterate tribesmen. The Zulus have more in common with DnD barbarians then Vikings
>>46349238
Didn't they also get XP for destroying magical items?
I definitely remember magic weapons being no-nos for Barbarians.
>>46349116
But viking beserkers were just "knight like" entities who were appointed by Jarls to settle legal disputes, often with the threat of trial by combat that a commoner would certainly lose but equally with some solomon esque logic/wisdom. Berserker in old norse translates literally to mean "bear pelt wearer" which was the mark that distinguished them as being an appointed arbitrator.
>>46349324
That's what I'm saying.
The original text uses a word to describe the inhuman, monstrous, supernatural aspects of both Beowulf and Grendel.
Since no one knows what that word really means, no one makes an interpretation about it, because without anyone knowing what the word means, you can't make an interpretation about it.
>>46349422
The Dragon 63 barbarian will refuse to use magic items and destroy them if they can, but it doesn't say anything about getting XP from doing it. Maybe one the later versions.
>>46349380
>>46349423
Where does this idea of the "berserking" berserker come from anyway?
>>46348621
>and he runs away from a vampire girl after giving off empty threats of ramming some steel in her
What? What story was that?
>>46349922
Because they were shapestrong, and could hamask into bears and wolves.
By the 12th century at least, they were described thus: "[Odin's] men rushed forwards without armour, were as mad as dogs or wolves, bit their shields, and were strong as bears or wild oxen, and killed people at a blow, but neither fire nor iron told upon them. This was called Berserkergang."
>>46350028
>damnit Olaf stop eating your shield
>>46350019
The one where his kingdom gets stolen by a wizard from the past
>>46350086
No, no, no. Where his kingdom gets stolen by a bunch of backstabbing nobles.
The wizard from the past doesn't really do much aside from BTFO'ing Conan's army with magic and trying to convince Conan to become his strongman and crush everything that stands in their path (the backstabbing nobles that resurrected the wizard), and then the wizard smokes some 420 blaze it black lotus weed to regain his magical powers and is pretty much a footnote until the ending of the story.
>>46348636
Greatest film ever faggot
>>46350086
>>46350146
JUST GIVE ME A NAME ALREADY
Shit, I need to read this again.
>>46349272
The Hyborian Age is part of Lovecraft's history? I always thought it was just Clark Ashton Smith's Hyperborean age that was used.
And Robert E. Howard did not dive into the cosmic horror angle as heavily as the rest of his weird fiction group.
And on an unrelated note, I wonder how TTRPG group consisting of Howard, Lovecraft, Smith, Bloch, and Derleth would go.
>>46350197
The Hour of the Dragon/Conan the Conqueror.
>>46350176
That film was a great film but a FUCKING PIECE OF TOTAL FUCKING RETARDED HOLLYWOOD GARBAGE when it comes to portraying Conan.
>>46350260
>And Robert E. Howard did not dive into the cosmic horror angle as heavily as the rest of his weird fiction group.
I like that. Makes Conan look a lot smarter than his civilized cultured counterparts.
>hey here's an idea, let's NOT explore the ancient city build by non-human beings with angles so weird it makes my eyes bleed - lets fucking RUN back to the surface while we still can remember where the exit is...
>>46350269
>The Hour of the Dragon/Conan the Conqueror
Thanks.
>>46350304
It doesn't surprise me that Howard would have protagonists act that way, given his attitudes of barbarism vs civilization, where the former tends to have more common sense, practicality and restraint.
>>46348621
Are you reading REH to prep for the new RPG coming out? I just got the books after looking into the system and jumped on the hype train.
Anything other than REH worth reading? Any other suggestions for getting into the right mindset to run a Hyborian Age game?
if any player today tried to make a character that could do what Conan can do they'd be howled out of the game for making a Mary Sue.
Conan is a typical pulp hero in the sense that he is very, very good at absolutely everything, has no weaknesses, and learns no lessons (because he already knows everything he needs to know).
he's the strongest human being alive, able to beat any mortal man on the planet in a 1-on-1 swordfight, AND the best king ever, AND can read and write in a dozen languages, AND the best strategist / general on the battlefield, AND the stealthiest thief in the world, AND has greater willpower than the greatest wizard in the world so he can win in a mental struggle, AND AND AND...
i grew up reading Conan and i love these stories. and i realize there are a few exceptions to what i've just said (like he's occasionally afraid of magic or regrets a decision). but basically he's way, way too good to be an interesting PC in most of his stories.
>>46350358
Every hero was like that back then.
Some of them are still around and get regular new content.
>>46350358
I don't disagree, most of the time fantasy protagonists in novels are not good for player characters because the protagonist (except for attrition-oriented authors like you know who) is expected to succeed in some way and have a degree of plot armor.
But someone can be "like Conan" by having the barbarian be more noble savage and not caraciture of a horned viking. Wise if not book-smart, cautious, ect.
There should be something like a Hero class, based on Conan and other archetypal heroes from mythology.
Probably more like a sword-using monk, rather than a barbarian, with their apparently supernatural abilities gained through training, and becoming supernatural beings at the end through shear awesomeness.
>>46350358
And yet somehow he's still an interesting, fun character. Like a lot of those old pulp heroes, there's some real charm in there somehow, in spite of their ludicrous levels of being great at everything.
>>46350698
That's what fighters are supposed to be. Unfortunately everyone keeps getting them confused with warriors, which is a real shame.
>>46348937
Well, the Grecian conception held that you couldn't be civilized unless you grew grain, ate bread, and drank wine, and pretty much lived in one place.
Although for the longest time they didn't have bread we would think much of, and a lot of the wine would have been pretty shit too.
>>46350078
>You see Sven, if I eat shield, then shield will be in me, giving me all of the protections and not need to carry shield
And thus, Berserkers were wise men.
>>46350864
So basically
>If you're not Mediterranean you're not Civilized.
>>46350911
The bar bar is literally an onomatopoeia for retards pretending to speak like real people.
>>46350792
Good point. They should have far more options for bonus feats though. And more impressive options. Including incentives to go without heavy armour.
>>46350997
>incentives to go without heavy armour
For what purpose?
If we know anything about actual medieval armor, it's that it was easy to wear, didn't hinder movement much and protected you from all sorts of shit.
>>46351022
Also Conan wore armor whenever he could steal it
>>46351022
>For what purpose?
Encouraging more play styles and giving more options should be a good reason.
>>46351022
Because a lot of the classic heroes (both heroes from classics, and others) wear armour more like chain, scale, or just a breastplate of metal.
If they are to be represented by Fighters, then surely Fighters could ape their equipment choices.
>>46351118
Oh true, but I don't think he ever really used plate or banded armour.
>>46351152
They wore what was available in their 'setting' or what they could afford.
>chain
It would be lovely if games made this heavier than plate like it really is.
>>46350358
He's more like a character out of mythology rather than a PC
>>46348621
D&D is what you get when you take all the source material from the fantasy classics, all the grimy old Sword and Sorcery and all the pulp favourites and then file down all the edges, edit out all the balls and tits, and turn it into sludge that's safe to serve to children.
D&D these days is mainly just based on older D&D and is so out of touch with mainstream fantasy or the classic source material that it's practically it's own genre.
There's nothing weird about the archetype that includes awesome characters like Conan or Fafhrd being reduced to loincloth wearing parodies.
>>46348955
>Ehm, no? Conan has a decided distrust and supersticious fear of all things magic.
Conan has the initial fear of the unknown that is typical of the barbarian, but he learns and adapts.
Conan takes on the Black Seers with the help of a magic belt, he writes the secret sign of Jhebbal Sag in the sand, he is friends with sorcerers and mystics.
>>46351118
This.
Here's a fun drinking game. Grab a Conan anthology, and drink whenever Conan opts to NOT wear armour, and whenever Conan opts for a big heavy battleaxe instead of a sword.
You'll be sober in no time.
>>46351211
>D&D is what you get when you take all the source material from the fantasy classics, all the grimy old Sword and Sorcery and all the pulp favourites and then file down all the edges, edit out all the balls and tits, and turn it into sludge that's safe to serve to children.
>D&D these days is mainly just based on older D&D and is so out of touch with mainstream fantasy or the classic source material that it's practically it's own genre.
>There's nothing weird about the archetype that includes awesome characters like Conan or Fafhrd being reduced to loincloth wearing parodies.
How do you suggest we recapture this magic?
>>46348937
Ohgod. Is it bad that I finally understand what archetype means because of this post
>>46351197
True, you raise a good point. The heroic figures like Conan were products of an earlier age. The pseudo-medieval setting of most fantasy games would make them extremely out of place.
>>46351249
Yes
>>46350911
Yes in many cases although many Romans would consider other mediterraneans barbarians. The Celtiberrians lived in what's now spain and rome didn't consider them civilized by any measure. Cleopatra was of greek decent but because she came from Egypt most romans looked down on her,.
>>46350358
The thing is that even though he's great at lots of things, that's not why he's interesting. He sidesteps the mary sue problem of being memorable because of the choices he makes and the way he interacts with the world, not how hard he can punch shit or how good he is with his sword.
He lets go of the treasure to rescue the girl. He scoffs at civilization even while enjoying it's luxuries. He's impulsive. Above all he witnesses civilization as an outsider and his special outlook and philosophy flavours all the stories he's in.
On top of this, we get to see him at various stages in his life, from the naive barbarian just having his first taste of civilization to the seasoned general taking a kingdom.
>>46351276
This is more of a problem with the kitchen sink nature of DnD in general I think, using every single thing in the books.
If you had a Dark Ages style DnD setting for example then really only mail, scale and leather would be around with bronze plate as a reward for defeating high level ancient wights in their barrow tombs.
Somewhere along the line it was determined that half naked people running around slaying bodies was pretty cool.
>>46351244
Mainstream fantasy is alive and well, the magic is still alive.
It's just that D&D is mainly for people who thinks that the most important part of racial identity is the statbonus and that the objective of role-playing is to be best at killing monsters.
I get what you're saying about recapturing the magic, it's just that D&D is not trying to capture the magic, it's just trying to be D&D and appeal to people who like D&D.
This is why people who are new to role-playing games but veterans of fantasy or sci-fi literature often lose interest halfway through trying to make their first character in D&D, while the people who approach it like Magic the Gathering or any other game (a set of mechanics to master) love it.
Don't ask yourself how D&D can recapture the magic, ask yourself why you're playing D&D out of all the other rpgs you could be playing.
>>46351182
This because the Hyborian era is mor elow-tech than most "medieval fantasy" rpg, they don't even know what a Crossbow is. Chainmail is the best armor people can use as far my memory of Conan go, is a setting limit. If Conan was let just say an African barbarian ending up in a mercenary band in Renaissence Italy be sure it would have made good use of a plate armor.
>>46348621
>Conan routinely runs away from fights (he knows he can't win), he runs away from various eldritch horrors that aren't from Earth, and he runs away from a vampire girl after giving off empty threats of ramming some steel in her.
Running away because you can't fucking win != fear. It's named not being an idiot.
>>46351368
>>46351276
>>46351152
>>46350997
Barbarians wear little armour because they are from places that can't produce it themselves, or where it's too expensive, not because going barechested grants them superpowers.
Conan starts off as a sandals and loincloth savage but he pretty much wears armour as soon as he gets his hands on it, even if he doesn't always strap on as much as he possibly can because he's just not very fond of it.
Also, D&D is very guilty of equipment anachronism, it takes items from hundreds of years apart, technologically, and just tries to make them all be functional side by side by giving them weird stats or weights.
The whole "Oh, chainmail is a lighter, cheaper option than plate" idea common in both videogames and pen and paper is the perfect example of this.
>>46351368
Yeah. I say play up the options for those who want anachronistic characters.
So maybe the Thick Skin Feat from Trojan War, granting an enhancement bonus.
Or a feat granting a dodge bonus to AC as an offshoot of Mobility.
>>46351398
>ask yourself why you're playing D&D out of all the other rpgs you could be playing.
It should be obvious why people who want a fantasy RPG would assume the most well known one can handle their needs. Hell the ONLY RPG most people know about.
>>46351152
It's easy then.
Be very stingy with magical drops. Most of your adventurers' equipment is mundane. Then you add rules about armor damage, meaning they constantly have to get new armor or continue without any armor at all.
Finally, if you still don't like how they're dressed up, you can have them lose everything when they get kidnapped or whatever. Since it's non-magical, it's not too hurtful. Just make sure not to steal anything special.
>>46351497
The problem is more connected to the way D&D type games treat damage and injury.
When two characters can stand next to each other and keep landing solid hits without either one of them dying, armour starts to function very differently mechanically than it does in the "lore", and you end up having to make all kinds of weird special rules for certain situations.
>>46351517
I totally agree with you, D&D is like GW games often the only example of the genre people know, which is a large part of why they keep on going.
But we're in a /tg/ thread discussing the departure of the barbarian archetype from it's fictional roots, so I think it's fair to assume that people in it are a little more aware of the options than the average person who's an outsider to the hobby.
>>46351368
>leather
Heh.
>>46350146
The Wizard was in Black Lotus sleep because He was summonning lot of Demon Lords and Eldritch Horrors asking them for help to alter reality and reshape the current era in the "Old Time" of when it was alive. Since Magic in Conan was not flashy like D&D (mage can do some rad stuff but it most necromancy and mental domination and they more or less stopped being human being when they reached that level of power) he became literally a sidequest.
>>46351497
Honestly, I much prefer it when a system makes an effort to model a certain period decently over a setting where the system is bending over backwards to make a hoplite or jaguar warrior equivalent totally valid in the same context as a late medieval knight.
Not everything is a valid option with it's own strength, most things are just replaced by newer, better things that make the older ones obsolete.
It's like inventing a stat system with bonuses to make rock weapons decent alternative to steel weapons, do we really want that level of retardation?
>>46350260
Lovecraft, Clark Ashton Smith and Robert E Howard were pen pals, discussed world building and borrowed liberally from one another.
You can really see it when you look at the first conan stories that are fairly standard but awesome barbarian hero stuff, vs the later stuff when he's battling wizards empowered by eggs from beyond the stars or whatever.
>>46348937
>didn't know shit about societies
Or they did, but decided to ignore historical accuracy, because they thought it would be more fun that way. Obviously not everyone agreed with them.
>>46351631
Then why do we have classes like monks or barbarians at all?
Should they not just get with the times and upgrade?
Why can't wizards use swords by default? Shouldn't they use the best equipment they can. (Heck, Gandalf used a sword, and he was a wizard)
The reason for this is they represent archetypes. And the idea of the hero in light armour, relying on cunning, strength, and toughness to rescue women about to be sacrificed is just as archetypical as the wizard in the pointy hat.
If the fighter class is meant to represent them, then surely adding options to portray them is hardly bending over backwards. Especially if doing so prevents you from taking other feats. Every feat you take to make you better armoured, while not wearing heavy armour, is a feat you could have spent on something else.
>>46351765
>because they thought it would be more fun that way.
What's fun about playing a retard from a society of unrealistic retards?
...nevermind. Guess I'm not retarded enough to understand how fun it is to roleplay a retard.
Barbarian comes from the greek βαρβαρος (barbaros) which was originally used to describe anyone that was not Greek, like persians and arabs.
So you are all using the word wrong, my friends. You are all barbarians, so enjoy.
>>46351824
No, they D&D archetypes all stem from trying to force differences between classes so that they all kill things in slightly different ways.
The archetypes that the classes are based on are always a lot more flexible and make more sense.
A story might feature a ranger that doesn't wear armour and uses a bow a lot because that's what makes total sense when you have someone trekking around in the wilds and hunting his own food.
An old bearded wizard doesn't wear plate armour and fight with a halberd because he's an old dude who's been reading books instead of worrying about gains.
Then D&D gets it's grubby hands on it and decides that now those two things are classes and that they're ONLY allowed to look exactly like that, even if it makes total sense that the ranger would be head to toe in armour if he had some available and he was going to storm a dungeon or whatever, and decides that wizards aren't ALLOWED to use thing X because that's the fighter's thing.
Conan used magical items and learned things about demons and sorcerers, he fought in heavy armour, he was a pirate, a cavalryman, a king.
But then D&D gets it's hands on it and decides "okay so barbarian is a dude with a bare chest, loincloth and maybe a horned helmet who shits in the woods and hates nice things, these are the rules"
Archetypes are effective and often great, but CLASSES are way too often hamfisted attempts at stopping people from fighting over the same loot.
>>46351605
Armour made from lacquered leather lames (China, Japan, various horse-ridin' outfits) says hello, anon.
>>46348621
People don't read Conan and know him though pop culture.
Hes also lies through his teeth when talking about where he has been and what he has done and have panic attacks when remembering Cimmeria.
He also respects artists and find very awful having to kill a poet and bard that spreads dissents about him when he is king. Because art is great and maybe the only good thing about civilization
He is self deterministic above all and values that in others, no matter who. Still people thinks he is misogynist
>>46350358
Like this guy for instance, grow up reading but he forgot that in the Phoenix in the sword, Conan remembering the grey desolation of his homeland starts to become triggered and has to drink and wash the memories away. This is not exactly a perfect person.
Or in shadows in Zamboula. Massive dude tells him that he is trained to kill for his god by strangling people, he does that since he is a child, he started with puppies and children (edgy) and went on to strangle full grown bulls, and that now he was going to strangle Conan, Conan says something akin to
>Not if i strangle you first.
Conan almost dies, but out choke the other guy who was surprised that Conan didn't actually crumbled first, if he had lasted a second more Conan admit that he would have passed out and would be the one dead. This is not Hubris?
>>46351977
And that's fine. I'm not saying that the Fighter should be limited to that. I'm just saying if the class is meant to represent heroes like that, then there should be support to play them.
>>46348621
Long before Conan, barbarian was already a thing. It meant "not Greek", and they were generally known as angry uneducated fucks who should be killed off like vermin. It's just multiple uses of an ancient term.
>>46352013
There's also Conan's fight with the ape in the dungeons. The ape grabs Conan and Conan manages to plunge his dagger in the ape's heart just in time to kill the ape before the ape crushes him into bloody pulp, and Conan basically thinks "I'm getting too old for this shite."
Robert writes very carefully, he turns Conan into a badass without it getting boring.
>>46352046
That's a reasonable argument if the system is made with the kind of stories those characters are from in mind.
If you make a pulpy sword and sandals game, then pulpy sword and sandals characters are obviously meant to be powerful, fun and have the spotlight.
The problem is that when it instead turns into "generic medieval fantasy simulator x" they try to shoehorn in archetypes from wildly different settings and you get the fish out of water effect of having a naked savage in a setting where there are also guns and 16th century style plate armour, and trying to make him relevant by giving him stupid special rules and exceptions, and it cheapens the experience for everyone.
So the point of the thread is to point out that the word doesn't mean anything? Outside of mary sue maybe.
>>46351934
>>46352092
I want Hellenics to leave.
>>46349422
That was the spell-breaker prestige class, who could gain the xp used to craft magical items.
>>46352124
But then the Romans show up and say the same shit.
>>46352213
And noone cares because their economy is just as fucked as all the other cradles of civilization.
>>46351398
Go away Fatefag.
>>46348621
>How did the idea of the "barbarian" get so far away from the Conan-ian archetype?
People don't like to read.
>>46352102
Runequest (I'm most familiar with the Avalon Hill blue box) is fantastic for making rather realistic barbarian - that is, the Roman/Romano-British view of barbarian - campaigns. I've played anything from Iron Age Finns to the Gloranthan Sartarites with it.
>>46348796
This, plus the fact that the Barbarian archetype has a lot of influence from the Norse Berserkers (in the form of Barbarian Rage) as well which reinforces the "fearless bloodlusting madman" archetype.
>>46348917
Conan is some kind of Rogue/Fighter/Barbarian blend, in D&D terms.
>>46348621
Barbarian is a character background, not a class.
>>46350975
So a modern-day equivilant might be calling a class 'Blibbleblibbler'?
Sometimes I wished D&D wasn't developed as a Class system but more like Anderson idea of a Skill Based system.
>>46348621
So Conan was a fighter used to armorless fighting?
>>46352706
Pretty much, yeah.
The word "Barbarian" literally comes from the fact that the Greeks thought all foreigners sounded like "bar bar bar bar". Barbarophonos meant something like "unintelligible speech".
>>46352317
>Go away Fatefag.
Spotted the System Master.
>>46348621
The underlying theme of Conan was that people with harsh, uncivilized upbringings (barbarians) are superior in character and ability to weak, decadent urbanites, and that when exposed to civilization, they will excel despite their lack of civilized upbringing because they are better equipped to adapt to and dominate their new environment.
Conan is what happens when you take a man hardened in the fires of Cimmeria (and also of a superior race) and let him wander through civilization for twenty years. Young Conan in, say, the Tower of the Elephant, didn't know shit. He didn't even know what sarcasm was. He succeeded only because he had the help of the King of Thieves.
The polyglot hierogryph-deciphering Conan of The Black Circle was ten or maybe twenty years later, after he had been trolling through various layers of society for a lifetime, gathering experiences, languages and skills as he went. Conan was by no means a typical barbarian, he was a perfect storm of exceptional qualities and experiences.
>>46352706
Look out, a vicious horde of herpaderps are coming to burn our wives, salt our houses, and rape our fields!
And we don't even grow oilseed!
>>46352806
Forged in fire
Quenched in ice
Tempered in battle
Hone by deceit
He was right.
>>46352790
>>46352706
>>46350975
It's older than greek, greek had "barbaros" that meant foreign or ignorant, you have to go back to the proto-indo european languages to find when it just meant people speaking gibberish. For example, barbara is sanskrit for stammering, so it's even older than that.
>>46352806
>The underlying theme of Conan was that people with harsh, uncivilized upbringings (barbarians) are superior in character and ability to weak, decadent urbanites, and that when exposed to civilization, they will excel despite their lack of civilized upbringing because they are better equipped to adapt to and dominate their new environment.
which kind of true in a historic perspective. It is called "the advantage of backwardness".
>>46352927
I was going to say "But what about the Europeans?" but then I realised that until the Renaissance, Europeans were still scratching their balls with bronze swords and drinking alcohol through holes bashed into their heads with stone axes.
>>46349444
With no one knowing what the word means, you can only make interpretations about it.
>>46353002
Maybe it meant reverse-trap?
>>46353002
Well, it's telling that it's only used for the horrible monster and the hero.
>>46349444
I think terrible might be a fitting word. Rather that's what it actually means or not, I have no idea, but it would be a good fit. Especially considering older meanings of the word, close to frightening and awesome blended together.
>>46353073
It means callipygian.
>>46352990
Yep.
Having a crude, strife-filled existence and then swooping in and stealing all the ideas from decadent stagnant civilized nations and doing them better is the way to go.
>>46352927
It's balls out untrue from a historical perspective, as "civilized" and "uncivilized" are relativistic terms.
>>46353127
Sure they are, but that doesn't mean there's not an objective difference between the level of development displayed by two cultures at a given point in time.
They were building pyramids in egypt when the scandinavians had just gotten their feet wet in the whole "agriculture" game.
>>46349374
What's a "proper" wizard like then?
>>46353100
No Danny, not everything is about putting your penis between the buttocks of another man.
>>46353208
Replaced by sorcerers, who are pretty much Conan'esque magic users.
>>46353100
Confession: I thought Robert Jordan was making up words when I read "callipygean" and that other calli- word he loved to use in his Conan books. Then I found out that there actually was a statue called the Callipygean Venus.
A fantastic way of saying "Venus of the great arse."
>>46350347
yes i m hyped for the game
went for the hoard pledge i hope modiphius wont be too late with their deliveries
>>46348636
But D&D barbarians hated magic in the 70s, the film came out in 1982
>>46353208
Wizard in Conana stories are strange, some are more Mentalist in the moden use of the terms, they use Hypnosis and cheap trick to control weak minded people or just alchemy and drugs. Other just have a magic items that allow them to do strange things. The most got power by summoning Things From Beyond the Veil and Demons and making pact with them or binding them, the most powerful drabble whit Necromancy and become undead thing. Some can control beasts or manipulate weather trought lenghty rituals. No one call Meteor, Fireball or Stop time and Teleport.
>>46350347
>prep for the new RPG coming out
Not him, and unfortunately not really. As much as I want to like the system (mostly because Mophidius is doing an adaption of the brilliant Infinity tabletop system), I just can't get behind the 2d20 system. It's at once way too loose and unecessarily convoluted.
How would a Conan style wizard even work in an RPG.
I remember a thief girl who had been practising a single spell for a long time and could turn briefly invisible for example. But then you also had cleric sort of people and evil wizards who could do all sorts.
>>46353815
You kill someone on an altar, use some magical conduit to summon something from beyond, and hope it's not powerful enough to break through your bonds, and then when it has granted you what you wanted, you better hope you can send it back from where it came.
>>46353815
You say you cast the spell, then bend over and drop your pants so your GM can use you as a hand puppet for the rest of the game.
>>46349210
D&D paladins are straight out of Three Hearts and Three Lions. They are copies of Holgier Dansk.
>>46353984
>Holgier Dansk.
Ogier de Danemarche, Ogier the Dane or Holger Danske
>>46350347
I wanted to back it, but I just couldn't. Narrative systems aren't my thing.
>>46351182
He used plate when he was king. He just wasn't rich enough to afford it before that.
>>46354067
>narrative system
Could you elaborate on what this means vs, say, dnd?
>>46354099
He also wore the plate armour of a Nemedian soldier to sneak out of town, and dressed up as a mercenary with plate armour provided by the priests of Asura.
>>46354109
DnD or Gameist systems, you take one of a number of predefined actions and roll dice to see what happens, Narrative systems you make a suggestion and GM decides what he thinks is best for the story.
>>46354067
you can still back it.
the system is pretty good
the character dev is horizontal instead of vertical so no powercreep
the amount of content is insane and there is even a d20 conversion kit you really dont want the 2d20
>>46354019
Eh, close enough.
>>46354213
I don't like 2d20 even a little bit and I'd hate to send good money to a rotten system. I've made some questionable OSR purchases recently and I'm just not prepared to keep wasting money.
>>46354262
all right
i plan on sharing the pdf when i get them
>>46354213
>>46350347
There's a Conan RPG happening?
Oh shit.
>>46354324
yeah check kickstarter conan. you can still join in
>>46351493
>Barbarians wear little armour because they are from places that can't produce it themselves, or where it's too expensive, not because going barechested grants them superpowers.
No, they don't wear armour because Frank Frazetta often painted Conan shirtless and his depictions of the character became iconic.
>>46354556
You know, after going through Frazetta's paintings, I can't help but shake the feeling this guy was pretty bisexual.
You don't spend so many years of your life painting half-naked men if you don't like to nibble sausage.
>>46349444
You are correct, but as a swefag I have too correct you on the translation of the name. A "särk" is a piece of clothing that looks like a dress. Picture related. Berserk, or Bärsärk/björnsärk as we call them, literarly means "Dress of Bear" or "Dress made of bear."
>>46354754
This was ment for >>46349423
>>46354601
They were self portraits. Dude was a stud. He also painted loads of curvy babes, who were based on his gorgeous and curvy wife.
Also, you might be projecting your own insecurities.
>>46354788
>self portraits
Are you fucking blind? Have you never seen a picture of Frazetta? No fucking way those were selfportraits.
>>46354601
If you think that, you might want to check out Vallejo's work. Man, woman - not one human was less than physically perfect. He was equal opportunity cheesecake.
There is nothing wrong nor homosexual with loving the perfection the human form, both male and female, is capable of.
>>46354894
Vallejo is DEFINITELY bisexual. Luis Royo is probably into fucking underaged gothic chicks, and Brom has forgone the pleasures of the flesh and just injects LSD right into his nutsack.
>>46355040
Damn, the first thing that pops into my mind when hearing "Luis Royo" is "blonde, big knockers, big sword".
>>46354556
I'd say theres quite a few REH stories where Conan is introduced as wearing nothing but a loincloth and a huge belt, so its in the text, too
>>46355204
And there are far far more stories when he's running around disguised in a big cloak, or fully clad in steel.
What's that thing that REH likes to use again? Sun battering cuirasses and mail so sparks and shards of silver fly off? I dunno I don't read Conan in English.
>>46350146
I was thinking of the one where his kingdom gets stolen by a wizard and a bunch of backstabbing nobles and they threw him in the dungeon with the creepy eldritch experiments.
How many times does Conan get deposed?
>>46355302
We're talking about the same story.
But the core of the story isn't the wizard.
The core of the story is a bunch of retarded nobles resurrecting an evil wizard they shouldn't have.
>>46355302
Phoenix on the Sword and Hour of the Dragon, I think. Then there's the Kull story By This Axe I Rule which is sort of PotS before Howard retooled it into a Conan story.
>>46354754
Or bare shirt, that it shirtless.
>>46355302
Oh, and the one you're thinking about is probably Phoenix on the Sword, with the crazy bard and a few others plus Thoth Amon. In Hour of the Dragon, the baddies are the King of Nemedia and Xaltotun (raised from the dead).
>>46355428
His description completely fits both of those stories.
>>46352885
>Steel is strong
Contemplate this on the tree of woe.
>>46349380
>>46349423
Where the hell have you got this idea from? A berserker was basically the equivalent of an outlaw in old scandinavia, having no farm/home or honor and taking what he wants from others through violence.
I'm from Norway myself, we've learnt about this in school and required reading is two of the original sagas with somewhat updated language (pretty much norwegian from 1400). There's a short part about a man called Torgrim described as having "gone berserk", which in context translates to something like a man "gone dark/rogue". Maybe raiding vikings somtimes called someone on their crew a berserk for being espescially vile and crazy in combat, but they most definetely wasn't "knights". They were free game for anyone to kill without being set for trial because they were lawless.
Would really like to know where you read this about jarls champion.
Allthough the part about bear pelts are true, the meaning of berserk might have had a different meaning in the places vikings raided/were known, but in scandinavia it was synonymous with outlaw.
>>46355428
I looked it up, I was thinking of The Scarlet Citadel, where he's deposed by Koth and Tsotha-Lanti.
>>46355580
Conan's dad was right, the very next scene he trusts and stays with his mother (who also dies after falling for Doom's spell and trusting him) and doesn't run which leads to his life as a slave.
Flesh is weak.
>>46351444
Nah REH is oddly across the board from stone age to renaissance in his armor references.
>> Valannus of mail shirt, burganet and leg-pieces, and clad him in Conan's armor of black plate-mail, with the vizored salade, and the dark plumes nodding over the wivern crest. Over all they put the silken surcoat with the royal lion worked in gold upon the breast, and they girt him with a broad gold-buckled belt which supported a jewel-hilted broad-sword in a cloth-of-gold scabbard.
>http://www.outfit4events.com/eur/product/9140-closed-burgeonet-brescia-museum-replica/
>THE AQUILONIAN host was drawn up, long serried lines of pikemen and horsemen in gleaming steel, when a giant figure in black armor emerged from the royal pavilion, and as he swung up into the saddle of the black stallion held by four squires, a roar that shook the mountains went up from the host. They shook their blades and thundered forth their acclaim of their warrior king – knights in gold-chased armor, pikemen in mail coats and basinets
>Conan rode a great black stallion, the gift of Trocero. He no longer wore the armor of Aquilonia. His harness proclaimed him a veteran of the Free Companies, who were of all races. His headpiece was a plain morion, dented and battered. The leather and mail-mesh of his hauberk were worn and shiny as if by many campaigns, and the scarlet cloak flowing carelessly from his mailed shoulders was tattered and stained.
REH is from the time when the sense of, and accuracy to, historical arms and armor was still much less solidifed than today. I'd seen a book from his time talking about the Romans only wearing scale-armor.
>>46355710
This. People misconstrue the technology-level of the Conan stories all the time. It was all over the place, and far closer to contemporary ideas than antiquated ones.
Those were glorious days.
>>46355710
Yeah the Hyborian Age is a big smear from the bronze age all the way to late medieval in terms of technology. It mostly hovers around late antiquity to early medieval though.
>>46355705
But Conan breaks his father's sword in the battle of the mounds. The steel is only as strong as the hand that wields it.
>>46355710
https://books.google.com/books?id=gZ8GCwAAQBAJ&pg=PA120&lpg=PA120&dq=conan+the+barbarian+plate+armor&source=bl&ots=4rrnPjiRpr&sig=6yC8rgX0wybs-hV3Tw21ucI6VP8&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj_jc6orenLAhVHHx4KHfc9CLwQ6AEIPTAH#v=onepage&q=conan%20the%20barbarian%20plate%20armor&f=false
The story should be Black Colossus done by REH in 1933, but you get those late medieval/renaissance armor references throughout his work. And in a story that takes place on a tropical coast where there's some spooky Black Man (not in the usual sense but the Scarlet letter devil/satan sense) stalking some people Conan is described dressing in a hundreds year old dead pirate's attire looking like a swashbuckler from the golden age of piracy circa 1600s.
>>46355796
More or less though Aquilonia and Nemedia seem to draw more upon the vaguer early 20th and 19th century notions of the medieval period. One where Agincourt, Crecy, the knights of medieval france and the Anglo-Saxons and Vikings co-exist at the same time.
>>46348621
>How did the idea of the "barbarian" get so far away from the Conan-ian archetype?
Any DnD class that started off based on a specific source material has changed wildly over the years. DnD wizards don't much resemble Merlin or Gandalf anymore, either. That's just the way the game has evolved.
>>46355040
>Luis Royo is probably into fucking underaged gothic chicks
Well really, who isn't?
>>46351996
Buff coats would also like to say hello.
>>46356503
fags and people into milfs with saggy tits, that is to say, fags.
>>46351152
Man Achilles was a dick.
>>46348621
Holy shit. 1.99 CAD for 12 conan stories on Google play right now.
The best thing for my transcontinental flight.
>>46356809
Reed and knot armour too.
Bone as well.
>>46355878
Not they guy you were replying to but he ultimately realizes on the tree of woe that his own will is mightier than both and that Dooms power extends from others belief in his power, once Conan realizes this Doom is pretty much one-shotted.
lso anyone have a good torrent of the Conan stories? i've never read them but always meant to when I had more time.
>>46357174
He really was.
>OH SHIT
>>46352101
Conan gets knocked out, abducted, crucified etc. a surprising amount.
He usually survives by doing things like ripping out a vultures throat with his teeth to drink its blood to survive.
Not really Mary Sue, so much as "never say die" plus having spent his life dealing with this shit and sort of seeking it out.
Also getting his ass saved by people who think a Barbarian is a useful idiot and don't expect his plotting.
>>46351824
>Gandalf used a sword, and he was a wizard
he was a wizard, but he was not the D&D wizard class
>>46351824
>Gandalf used a sword, and he was a wizard
Gandalf was a DMPC, he could get away with some exceptions from the rules.
>>46354185
Thanks, senpai. What is it about narrative systems you don't like? I've never played anything but dnd (mostly 5e), so I don't have much to compare to.
>>46353815
Conan magic is plot magic, not action magic.
Like, you could probably kill someone from afar by sucking their soul out into the cosmos if you spent ages on rituals and learning, but there's not much in the way of throwing fireballs or flying.
If you want to fly in conan, you turn yourself into a bird, if you want to gib someone you turn into a tiger or sic your demons on him, there's no "magic totally replaces weapons" firespamming or anything similar.
>>46348621
conan has high all-around stats, including INT
he's not just a barbarian either
he's like some gestalt barbarian/ranger/rogue/fighter mix
>>46354185
>Narrative systems run on DM fiat only.
This is what D&D players actually believe.
>>46354601
>Dude painted bare chested men, he must be bisexual.
Jesus fuck, do people actually think that where you're from? Like, you're only allowed to paint chicks with big tits otherwise you're some kind of queer?
>>46349240
The word you're thinking of is Æglæca, it is what Beowulf and Grendel are both refered to with equally. It more likely translates into "powerful individual". The more common interpritation is that Grendel isn't a monster just a big guy who lives in the fens, as they never use the word for claw, only hand, as well as Æglæca and other similarities.
>>46358213
Not that guy, but my mother said something to that effect when she saw the picture over my shoulder.
Being a world class fag hag she has a sense for this kind of thing.
Though it doesn't matter to me what Vallejo likes to do with his weenie anyway, his paintings are still rad.
>>46357314
Check the Gutenberg project, I found Phoenix on the sword there.
Alternatively, you can get a kindle version for $0.99 that has all the REH stories
>>46357314
About half of them can be found here:
https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Author:Robert_Ervin_Howard#Conan_the_Barbarian
>>46351249
what did you think it meant before?
Why did Conan become Conan instead of sitting around eating chips and shitposting on 4chan?
>>46361445
>>46359572
Thanks for the heads up, I've had the black faux-leather cover complete conan in my amazon basket for years, I kept meaning to buy it but though it'd take up space, this seems like a nice solution, I don't mind paying the dollar to get them all at once no hassle...plus the solomon kane collection has me tempted...
>>46353984
Wait, wasn't Ogier the Dane one of Charlemagne's peers? I distinctly remember reading about him in Bullfinch's Mythology.
>>46352706
Probably the best modern version would be calling someone a Durka Durka.
>>46355630
>I'm from Norway myself
KEK
U
C
K
>>46349311
They weren't allowed to use magic items and basically couldn't be used if someone wanted to play a caster in the group, so instead of just dropping those they rewrote the whole class.
>>46348621
See famous quote:
>Know, O prince, that between the years when the oceans drank Atlantis and the gleaming cities, and the years of the rise of the Sons of Aryas, there was an Age undreamed of, when shining kingdoms lay spread across the world like blue mantles beneath the stars - Nemedia, Ophir, Brythunia, Hyperborea, Zamora with its dark-haired women and towers of spider-haunted mystery, Zingara with its chivalry, Koth that bordered on the pastoral lands of Shem, Stygia with its shadow-guarded tombs, Hyrkania whose riders wore steel and silk and gold. But the proudest kingdom of the world was Aquilonia, reigning supreme in the dreaming west.
Conan is a Cimmerian. Cimmeria is not mentioned as one of the great civilized countries. If you aren't in civilization, you are a barbarian according to the civilized peoples. Please refer to origin of the word "barbarian" and how Greeks used to refer to non-Greeks.
>>46365418
I just realized I misread the OP. I am a huge faggot. Please ignore my post and continue.
>>46349444
let me refer you to >>46358258
>>46348621
So what are the best books to buy if I want all the stories?
>>46366131
Check out Amazon for The Complete Chronicles of Conan (if you want the dead trees and faux leather edition) or Conan: The Barbarian Complete Collection if you want the Kindle version (the latter's $1.23 at the moment).
>>46355204
When I finally got around to reading Howard's Conan stuff I was actually surprised at how often Conan was dressed in his loincloth and sandals. Based on /tg/ bashing the shit out of that trope, I'd have assumed that wouldn't be the case. But Conan loved him a good loincloth.
>>46367894
>Conan loved him a good loincloth
A good loincloth is your friend. If you're a barbarian hero or antihero, you're supposed to show the world your mighty thews, not your tackle.
>>46367894
That's because he often gets thrown in a dungeon, or gets put to work as a galley slave.
>>46354324
There've been two or three pretty good Conan RPG's in the past already mind.
The Conan d20 isn't that bad, and it basically did away with DnD magic for a more appropriate system - which does a lot for making the rest less stupid, even if it's still full of DnD-isms.
GURPS Conan is pretty good, as you'd expect from a system that's basically made for that kind of setting. Has a couple of neat adventures that capture the feel very well.
>>46358039
I prefer telling stories about a game after it's been played, trying to force a story ahead of time always seems artificial and unfun. I also like a real chance of failure. but one based on an element of randomness and not because the GM or I chose for the failure to happen.
>>46364303
Yeah, he's the main character of the novel but it isn't revealed till late in the book. He displays all the AD&D paladin powers over the course of the novel.
>>46370880
Well that's cuz he gets blessed by a bunch of fairies or something, right?
>>46348621
Because he's not the only influence for the class
>>46348937
But there were plenty of societies who couldn't read.
>>46358258
I've seen formidible as a translation as well. Notably, it's also used to describe Bede, a real-life monk and scholar, who was later made a saint.
>>46358258
>>46374271
>Beowulf is just about two guys fighting, and then the victor beats up the mom of the guy he just beat to death, and then the victor thinks he's strong enough to fight a dragon and fucking dies like a bitch
I prefer the version where Grendel and Grendel's mom are horrible monsters.
>>46370780
> also like a real chance of failure. but one based on an element of randomness and not because the GM or I chose for the failure to happen.
Can you name a single game where this is actually how failure works? Because that's not how it works in any of the big name narrativist games.
>>46355630
Are you sure you're not just describing níðingr at this point?
>>46376113
I have seen people claim the dragon in Beowulf did not even breathe fire, people get all sorts of funny ideas.
>>46376113
considering it took 4 people to carry grendel's head, he must have been a big guy
>>46377824
What? But one of the major plot points of Beowulf is that his shield was strong enough to resist the dragon fire, since it was made of metal.
>>46351152
>the mighty, unconquerable walls of Troy are 15 feet high
>>46350260
It's worth noting that very little within HPL's universe is actually "canon." There is no unified setting and the mythos was a bastardisation of the original work by following authors. Originally it was a collection of thematically linked stories with references to each other. Same goes for a lot of CA Smith's stuff.
They traded ideas, themes and names and that's about it. Howard's world has about as much continuity with the HPL universe as the HPL universe has with itself. On top of that the stories RE wanted to tell were very different than the ones HP wanted to tell despite the similarities they had. I also vaguely remember Smith going on record saying his Hyperborea wasn't the exact same world as Hyboria but they were similar in concept.
>>46350260
I think I remember the 'Doom that Came to Sarnath'' mentioning the Hyborean age.
>>46381425
>Drawing things to scale
>Caring about perspective
I think it's supposed to be really far away. Note the tiny guys on top of the walls. Also the tracks near his horse and how they kind of abruptly stop before the road to the gate.
>>46350358
Conan is essentially a very high level OD&D fighter with good rolls and an experienced player behind him. Most of the shit he accomplishes are due to awesome attribute checks, attack rolls and inventive thinking on the side of the player.
There might also be a house-rule involved along the lines of "skills as treasure" where players can acquire minor skills like linguistics, sailing, detect-vile-wizardry and cossack-alertness-meditation by adventuring and mingling with new and interesting groups.
Also I think Conan is more interesting for what he does and says rather than for what he is. He's at his least interesting when Howard is jacking off to how awesome and superior he is. I think the stories would have been a lot better if we only had an outside view of Conan and had to judge him by his deeds alone, like a proper barbarian.
>>46367156
Not that guy but, which collection is the most complete? looking at a couple that claim they are but have different numbers of stories.
>>46381750
REH and HPL name-dropped eachother's stuff because they were bros and it was fun. But, as another Anon mentioned, treating this like it creates some kind of unified Canon doesn't really add anything to the work--the authors certainly didn't intend for it to. They were just bros being bros.
So, I mean, are they the same universe? Maybe? Ultimately it doesn't really matter to any of the material.
>>46349422
That's the Unearthed Arcana version.
>>46381964
>house-rule involved along the lines of "skills as treasure"
Is there any other ruleset out there that has this sort of clause? I'm interested in cribbing the idea to make things flexible, but I don't exactly have quite a good grasp on the concept right now.
>>46383213
I know 3rd edition dnd had some stuff like this, but it wasn't very well executed in that system.
>>46382635
nevermind, the definitive collection has two more stories than the complete collection
