Horus Heresy General
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Innocence Lost Edition
HH Book 6 - Retribution PDF:
>http://www.mediafire.com/download/8aqx9j3a8erqv8d/The_Horus_Heresy_Book_6_-_Retribution.pdf or
>https://sys.4chan.org/derefer?url=https%3A%2F%2Fkat.cr%2Fthe-horus-heresy-book-6-retribution-pdf-t12199249.html
>HHG FAQ - http://pastebin.com/iUqNrrA8
>Official HH 7th Edition Errata (Updated January 2016) - http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/fw_site/fw_pdfs/Horus_Heresy/Horus_Heresy_7th_Edition.pdf
>Other official downloads: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads#horusheresy
>>HH Rules:
>Crusade Army List: http://www.mediafire.com/download/1lprm5vd99yafa3/
>Isstvan Campaign Legions: http://www.mediafire.com/download/deadtdf0y47k59k/
>Mechanicum Taghmata Army List: https://mega.nz/#!LFwTjQ7B!mF0eVOY8P1MPT0a-QSXypXo_ZfskhYynD41PrkaTbD8
>30k/40k Rules: https://mega.nz/#F!pFgm0RKR!J06C1gVYcjzNGsF8YNLsjQ!EVh0GZZS
>30k/40k Rules and more (torrents): https://kat.cr/usearch/%22Forge%20World%22%20heresy%20user:epistolary/
>30k Black Library: https://mega.nz/#F!0RlxDZQC!qAu9BaubWa3KeihJRmOcsg
First for Night Lords.
Imagine a hypothetical Horus Heresy Animated series/anime. Who would you choose to voice each character (Both Primarch, Astartes and Human)? I’ve always wanted to hear how others hear the Primarchs/characters, what voices they give to each one.
>>46326504
Vulkan: Morgan Freeman
>>46326504
Whoever did Ahzek's voice in the text to speech device series, and Mark Strong for Guilliman.
>>46326515
>mfw
Thanks for putting his voice in my head every time I read Vulkan talking.
How are people modelling ultragrit? I'm running out of hands and the BaC swords aren't fantastic.
3rd party always seem to come in 3packs, Space Wolf bits are covered in yiffery and Despoilers are just expensive.
> Knives, chainswords or bayonets?
> Maglocked or go Bolter & CCW?
>>46326504
Vin Diesel for Konrad.
>>46326504
We'll have to hire Chow Yun Fat for the Khan, I suppose. And no, I'm not just being comedically lacist here, the dude does have a good voice.
We've got to use the xcom councilman/honest trailers dude for one of them too.
>>46326600
>We've got to use the xcom councilman/honest trailers dude for one of them too.
If you can make his council voice sound a bit older, I feel he'd make a great Malcador.
Hey where are the updated rules for the old legions? I've looked through the FW website and the new book and I can't find them.
>>46326504
Stephen Fry as the Emperor.
>>46326676
Nah, Fry would be Lorgar. Him or Hugh Grant.
Big E's got to have timbre and power in his voice, someone like Charles Dance.
>>46326434
Which legion had the easiest paint scheme?
>>46326746
Raven Guard.
>>46326746
What am I looking at here?
>>46326725
Nah, I want the Emperor to sound comfy as fuck while doing potentially sinister things.
>>46326765
I suppose that's just base black, then edge highlight in multiple degrees of white yeah?
>>46326746
Space Wolves are pretty easy. It takes effort to screw up grey.
>>46326775
How comfy does he look in here?
>>46326784
Yeah plus you don't generally want to or have to deck them out in a lot of bling since they have that whole spartan no fun allowed schtick.
>>46326796
Right. Cheers buddy.
>>46326746
Night Lords
>>46326790
That's his warface. I still would like him to sound like Stephen Fry. Hell, Horus hardly looks flattering either with his egg shaped head that is lacking in forehead.
>>46326825
I though those lightning bolts were hard as balls to do.
>>46326817
Anything for you, partner.
>>46326837
They're actually quite easy.
>>46326845
Girl, calm your tits.
>>46326434
Right, so having a bit of a conundrum over picking an army.
I'm wondering if I should pick a legion or just say "fuck it" to the legions altogether and go militia/ cults and try to make the biggest fanatical horde possible.
What do you think I should do /tg/?
>>46326775
>>46326790
>>46326829
How about Brain Blessed as the Emperor?
>>46326553
Ahzek should sound Iranian, though who has that voice is beyond me. Maybe the guy who played Dr Pavel?
>>46327048
Personally I feel there's something just right about playing a Legion in HH and also that by their nature they create a much more balanced meta than if you start including the other armies they've introduced.
>Not Blessed as Russ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJfa33q4VhU
>>46326504
Weird Al as Magnus
>>46327048
What >>46327082 said
Do you know anyone else who plays 30k?
>>46326504
Scott McNeil as Horus
>>46327116
Yeah my friend plays 30k Ultramarines
>>46327126
Play traitor UM to make him upset
>>46327055
I guess I could level with that, but wouldn't Brian Blessed fit Russ demeanor better?
David Warner as Horus
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6LbhhoOSIw
>>46326504
Joaquin Phoenix as the Night Haunter.
>>46327097
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1zjeYhJs7o
Not bad, but I doesn't feel Norse enough. He needs an accent.
>>46327137
Not a fan of Alpha Legion, sorry.
>Hue.
>>46327097
>>46327148
How about the Emperor is played by all the primarch actors speaking together?
>>46327166
Just pick Arnold Schwarzenegger for Russ and make him sound like he did in the Conan movies.
Jeff Goldbloom as Horus
Mike Tyson as Angron.
>>46327182
Austria isn't anywhere near Scandinavia. Peter Stormare is an option, though I don't know if his voice is good enough for a primarch. For Bjorn, perhaps.
Sean Pertwee as Mortarion.
>>46327250
Russ needs to sound abrasive and crude. That's Arnold in a nutshell.
>>46327250
>Austria isn't anywhere near Scandinavia
>1300kms
Eva Green as Lotara Sarrin.
Jussi Lampi as Russ
>>46327345
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mk6F_WElbfs
>>46327279
That's like 40 countries and shit in Europe, dawg. Long ass fuckin way.
>>46327397
Two countries.
>>46327279
As an accent.
>>46327450
Can confirm, krauts and their ilk sound nothing like anyone across the slight puddle that separates them from the northernmost european countries.
Unless you're one of those retards who counts Denmark as a nordic country. Shit might as well be Turkey.
You can often cross one country over and everyone sounds completely different, see France to Germany, or Germany to Poland.
>>46326770
It's a book about how future humans might evolve.
It's pretty BS but it's got creepy illustrations
>>46327977
Ok, Mark Strong should be Guilliman. We all know why this is.
>>46327977
James Purefoy would make a better Lucius, I think.
>>46327977
Sean Bean should be Ferrus Mannus.
>>46328159
Hehehehehehe
>>46328159
Had exactly the same thought upon checking the list.
Who's Alpharius? He seems familiar but I haven't watched anything in a while.
>>46328092
Affirmative, leftenant.
>>46328210
He was Lucius Malfoy.
>>46328269
Ah yes, I remember now. Thanks.
>>46327279
Guess what's even further away?Fucking Fenris!
>>46326434
Anybody try out the Dark Fury assault squads since the update?
How do they rock and roll now that they all have Ravens Talons as standard?
>>46328370
About 20 dead tacticals before they can even hit back.
>>46328460
Well they could always do that really.
How do they perform against 2+ armour now?
Quick Forgeworld has just asked to make a legion specific unit for the next book, the deal it cannot share the same unit type or Force org slot as your legions specific units
>>46328934
Death guard could get an elite choice that isn't in terminator armor.
Or give them something that takes up their most unused slot, the fast attack slot.
>>46328934
The Primarch Sanguinius.
Lord of War slot.
>>46328934
Dark Angels could get a unit.
>>46328934
Atramentar for NL
>>46328934
Alpha Legion suicide rhinos.
>>46328934
A fast attack version of a rhino for the World Eaters that makes it open topped and an assault vehicle.
Remove weapons and give it a 10 man capacity and I would be golden.
>>46327977
Who's Perturabo in that picture?
>>46328934
Night Lords only have heavy support free. Tricky. How about their own variant of the whirlwind that maims more than it kills, (though still puts people down for the sake of the tabletop,) extra nasty shrapnel or something.
So, Shred, morale and pinning tests taken at -2 Ld, non-NL units within 12" of a unit suffering casualties must take a morale check (-1 Ld if unit hit was wiped out).
>>46329107
James Purefoy. He was Marc Antony in HBO's Rome.
>>46328934
Can't share slots with existing AL units then... So no Elite or Fast Attack.
Heavyh Support it is then, how about an AL Stealth Tank. They certainly appear to have the development and production capacity to pull off some freaky nonsense.
>>46329107
James Purefoy.
>>46328934
So FA & Elite taken as RG. Too bad I really wanted a whispercutter.
>>46328934
WE have Heavy Support free so maybe some big guys with relentless Heavy Flamers and Power Weapons
>>46329161
>stealth speeder with a crapton of missiles
FUND IT
>>46326770
Precious is the mind too small for doubt guardsmen. Don not let your desire to know let you find HERESY!
>>46329241
Not sure if it would be a speeder, those tend to be Fast Attack most of the time, a tank would be slower and more suitable for the HS slot.
>>46329056
>>46329161
What about a Alpha Legion Fortification that when the Alpha Legion shoots at it It explodes in some sort of ap2 large blast and only the Alpha Legion Player knows where it is
>>46329271
humm true, annoyingly. stealth predator? what would be the sneekies weapon for it to mount?
>>46329271
In 40k the dark angels have a gun platform speeder in heavy support.
>>46328934
I think all Legion's need unique vehicle choices in general. Raven Guard get Whispercutter and Darkwing, nobody else gets much of anything.
We need IW with Schwerer Gustav super-heavies, iron hands experimental dreadnoughts, Ultramarines MRAP's designed for occupation, Word Bearers war altars, alpha legion xenos-based tech they don't tell anyone else about, etc..
>>46329320
I feel the AL version would look considerably less silly, though the concept is sound. Is the one with the field generator also HS? Because that might fit even better.
>>46329304
Same missiles as the Deredeo perhaps?
Works against air, does not give two shits about LoS, so the tank can hide better.
>>46329366
oh fuck, a couple of days ago there was a tank thread with a bunch of pics of tanks with their turrets mounted on basically cherry pickers, so the tank could hide out of sight, whilst you pelted the enemy
jesus does Legion ever start making sense? so far it's spying stacked on top of lies stacked on top of a bunch of deceptions
idk if I should think Alpha legion is bros with the army or if they just casually slaughter whole companies because two guys saw a fucking hydra tattoo
>>46328972
Jump pack equipped gas attack Marines. Do flybys while emitting grave warden style clouds and dropping phosphex bombs.
>>46329401
>Jump pack equipped gas attack Marines
>what are Destroyers
>>46329398
> idk if I should think Alpha legion is bros with the army or if they just casually slaughter whole companies because two guys saw a fucking hydra tattoo
It's the XX, they're both and none at the same time.
>>46329398
Legion has some narrative issues in my opinion. It's a decent story, but the AL are all over the place. The closest thing to coherence is at the end, and even that doesn't really make much sense.
>>46328934
heavy support for SoH.. hmm.
I'd love me some jump autocannons, relentless of course.. but thats rather fast attack, isnt it.
something with ap3 autocannons would be cool too.
>>46329469
I'm a fan of Legion, but I agree that there's a lot of hand-waving in covering up the inconsistencies with a whole Legion operating at the Spess CIA. FW's newer fluff for them was a jarring contrast, but I like how it makes room for Abnett's stuff with it's "yeah we totes have a whole bunch of dudes who act like regular Astartes all the time for kicks" explanation.
>>46328972
Stronger version of Destroyers squads.
Maybe -1 Toughness for opponents in close combat with them from rad-bleed.
>>46328934
Iron Warrior Pioneers, assault weapons (flamers, short range assault bolter) standard, demo charges and additional close combat weapons.
>>46329398
alpha legion stories are always convoluted as hellas they should be
>>46329320
>perfectly good co-pilot seat for mounting a heavy bolter
>lol, nope, put a stupid box there and put the gunner into his little hole to sit in like a power armoured R2D2
God fucking why?
>>46329320
Beep beep garbage train.
>>46329646
he does have a wider arc of fire that way, being next to the driver he wouldn't be able to shoot on his left without hitting the guy
>>46329717
He'd also not be a massive target as a life-sized hood ornament.
If you want a wider art on the front gun, mount it beneath the nose like regular speeders! The dude where he is now serves no purpose other than a gunner. If he was next to the pilot, he could cooperate with him on stuff, even take over if the pilot is hit.
>>46329646
The hole also looks to be too small for a power armored marine to fit in
Guys,i can't find any tournament repprts with the army lists, can you help me?
>>46329754
This. A turret mounted below the speeder would not only allow for a wider fire arc, but also allow the dude some godamn protection from a gunner cockpit.
>>46329795
And you wouldn't have to look at that stupid sink on the front of the vehicle. GW fucks up so many things with these stupid design decisions that didn't need to be there.
>>46329398
BL seem to have a rule that all AL stories have to be convoluted as fuck
>>46329965
Not entirely true I feel.
The Seventh Serpent was pretty much a strait up infiltration story. Nothing too convoluted, the ending was a bit odd obviously, but still normal.
>>46329366
>I feel the AL version would look considerably less silly,
So gunner actually sitting in the gunner's seat rather than the nose.
>>46330036
I tend to skip any Alpha legion heavy novel because they have to be the most boring legion.
Did anything of note happen in the novel? Any revelation? Or is just sneaky bolter porn?
>>46329398
I came expecting a story about power armored super spies, instead I got a story about some casual non astartes bumming around on some backwater planet with the alpha legion occasionally dropping in to say "Hey, btw we secretly control everything"
>>46330082
It's a cool reveal to learn that it was the ALs doing that the Khans comms go to shit in Scars.
It's also a neat look at their willingness to use alien tech to get the shit done that they want.
The AL facility they're attacking is using a Necron Pylon Array, much like those found on Cadia to becalm the warp around it.
This results in storms around the edges of the effect. Which is what's messing with the WS.
Not that much sneaky bolter porn going on at all, until the latter parts of the story where they're basically fighting their way out to destroy the thing.
>>46330146
That's the Serpent Beneath. In the Seventh Serpent we have Alpha Legion disguised as Iron Hands disguised as Alpha Legion fighting Alpha Legion.
>>46326434
What's a good edge highlight for Raven Guard that isn't just stark- contrast white?
So I saw that on the Forge world Facebook page that somebody asked Forge world about the infinite hit hand flamers for blood angel moritats.
This guy gets on your ship and slaps your battle brother on the buttocks. Wat do?
>>46330256
And got this response.
Looks like infinity hits doesn't work after all.
>>46330258
"Dark Angel command come in, Sevatar has escaped again."
>>46330243
dark blue
>>46330036
>Nothing too convoluted
Alphas disguised as Iron Hands disguised as Alphas vs Iron Hands disguised as Alphas isn't convoluted?
>>46330282
Wait, that's shit. The rule doesn't say anything about rolling a hit.
>"For every successful hit, they may make an immediate additional shooting attack with the weapon against the same target and may continue doing so until they miss with the weapon."
Not a single word about rolling to hit. Also, I just noticed something fun. Since the template can score multiple hits, and you (can) make a new attack for each successful hit, technically the number of attacks the template causes grows exponentially. If, for example, you hit 3 models with the template. That means you may make 3 additional attacks. Which all hit 3 times, causing 3 new attacks each.
>>46330258
Throw him in a Bangle made prison.
>>46330364
It makes sense in context.
>>46329398
Actually it's fine until the end.
>>46330258
Slap his obviously
>>46330258
slap him back with DAEMONS
>>46330256
>infinite hit hand flamers for blood angel moritats.
Did people actually take the infinite hits idea seriously? If someone actually tried to seriously pull that shit on me I would have just packed up my shit.
>>46330601
It's the rules. Clear as day. There's no tricks to it. You merely follow the rules.
>>46330463
Shouldn't that be a dangle prison?
>>46330643
He's shown to be immune to Dangle made prisons.
>>46330601
While it's not likely something they'll keep, I hope you'll excuse me for not taking the ruling of the facebook manager who doesn't apparently know the rule.
>>46330636
>>46330659
>People this autistic exist
Yep infinite hits is clearly something that the designers at forgeworld intended and is something a reasonable person would actually try to let their opponent do.
>>46330601
>If someone actually tried to seriously pull that shit on me I would have just packed up my shit.
The correct answer is to make them actually roll it.
You want to go infinite, you're going to actually have to go infinite.
Also what is with the obsession with dual hand flamers? One hand flamer on a Moritat will do the exact same thing and leave you room for a plasma/inferno pistol to actually damage vehicles/big guys.
>>46330258
Jokes on him, my battle brothers dedicate their buttocks to the esteemed Chaos gods Ans'l, Mo'rcck, and Phraz-Etar.
>>46330733
I don't think GW designers intended you to deep strike D weapon infantry without scatter next to your opponent, but that's a reality as well. Shit rules isn't the fault of the players. If FW did their job, this would have not happened.
Call it what ever you like, but there's no anal rules reading going on to make it work. It's pure and simple rules straight from the book. You can cry about it as much as you like, but it is what it is.
>>46330749
>You want to go infinite, you're going to actually have to go infinite.
Why? Nothing says you must make a new attack for every hit, it's totally optional. So you can cause as many hits as you like and then stop.
>what is with the obsession with dual hand flamers
Looks cool? You can always use your third slot for a plasma or inferno pistol.
>>46330194
Correct, got them mixed up.
Read a fair number of them over the last few weeks.
>>46330733
>Yep infinite hits is clearly something that the designers at forgeworld intended
You could literally argue it is because this isn't the usual reliant on one wonky reading of certain words RAW issue. this is 100% plain exactly what the rules say.
Add in the fact that I've literally seen people talking about this possibility before the rules for BA were even written, and it's quite easy to argue they ment it for whatever reason
>>46330856
>Why? Nothing says you must make a new attack for every hit, it's totally optional. So you can cause as many hits as you like and then stop.
True, but you're rolling to wound and I'm rolling to save, I'm not taking your word for it that you scored "Like a trillion hits so everything obviously dies."
Also the next time we play 40k I'm bringing all 9 Wyverns, because I like dragging other people away from their games to hold up my blast templates.
>>46330918
I don't know if FW intended BA to be able to field 5 assault cannon predators and dreadnoughts with dual fists and assault cannons, but that's in their rules as well. Or the fact that all BA get +1 to wound in CC.
>>46330820
>Shit rules isn't the fault of the players.
But exploiting those shit rules is.
>>46327977
>mark strong as horus
>vulkan not being idriss elba
>perturabo no being ron perlman
what the fuck is this shit
>>46330956
>I'm not taking your word for it that you scored
I can keep placing the flame template over the same models over and over again, as long as you want. And yes, I'm perfectly willing to roll all the dice, if you like.
>9 Wyverns
Try fielding 12 phospex rapiers and covering the board with 48 blast markers of dangerous terrain a turn.
>>46330968
>exploiting
No more exploiting than using formations or allies.
>>46330332
Thanks for the reply. Any dark blue in particular?
>>46330957
>I don't know if FW intended BA to be able to field 5 assault cannon predators and dreadnoughts with dual fists and assault cannons,
>Implying that's not exactly what they intended for the lulz
>>46330733
Never said its what they intended, nor would I play some who tried to a use it. But I don't consider a facebook post to be an official ruling considering how often they actually FAQ stuff.
>>46331041
>Automatically killing anything in an entire unit instantly isn't exploiting
There is a huge difference between free chainaxes or an extra weapon or attack and being able to instantly wipe out a 600 point deathstar in a single shooting phase with a single model that doesn't even cost 200 points.l
>>46331094
What if he shoots at a T6+ unit? Does the game break?
>>46331094
You sound like a Tau player crying about grav guns ruining their riptide spam. Stop taking 600pts. deathstars if you can't kill a single Marine model.
The pastebin is old and needs update if anybody is interested,it still says book 6 is coming. Also who the fuck wrote that shit? It seems written by an autist fag.
>>46331144
Moritats can deepstrike. As I claimed I don't give a shit about people using good or OP units or choices, but this isn't OP, it is literally "I am within range, that unit dies."
>>46331209
>Moritats can deepstrike.
Interceptor. Also, where does it get deep strike from, I don't see it in the rules.
>"I am within range, that unit dies."
Put your dudes into transports. What is S3 going to do to them?
>>46331209
Man, just give it up. Just ignore and refuse to play against people like >>46331274 this fucking idiot.
>>46331309
Don't worry, I wouldn't want to play against "I don't think that's what the devs intended, so I'm not going to allow you to do that."
How good are Destroyers in a WE list? Jump packed rad grenades seem pretty decent
Hey, question? Are heavy bolter Ogryns worth a damn for an Imperial Militia list? It seems like a cool idea, but BS2 and the cost kinda kills it. Think I might be better with ripper guns or an extra weapon for the extra attacks.
>>46331274
>Also, where does it get deep strike from, I don't see it in the rules.
Jump Pack.
>>46331042
I use P3 paint line so the it's coal black that I use. Basically, any desaturated dark blue works
>>46331657
Thanks dude.
>>46328934
AL Sicaran variant.
At the beginning of the game it can be placed into reserves (with outflank) to force the enemy to place one unit into reserves as well.
For Alpharius' rule for stealing enemy reserve rolls, it counts as any unit type and may come in without matching the exact unit type of the enemy unit.
>>46331657
Coal Black is more a desaturated Turquoise though, it leans a little blue, but it's primarily turquoise..
>>46331199
>It seems written by an autist fag.
Probably the same guy that's arguing for hand flamer moriat being ok.
Also, it's a GW game, did you honestly expect better from the player base? The player base that is autistic about "historical accuracy" in a fictional history which itself is extremely inconsistent about?
>>46330243
picture related est not bad, dark sea blue.
>>46331525
You have better gunplacements from other sources. Ogryn should be your rip and tear unit to fight back against melee marines.
>>46330918
Can you tell the thread what shop you play in so they can never do so in person? Just do us all a favor
>>46328972
Please, gimme gimme gimme gimmeeeee.
either one actually.
>>46331414
They are pretty brutal,but they still are frail as fuck for their price, you can try and see if you can protect them, but i don't really like them. I would rather take them on iron hands to be a little tougher to shooting
>>46331776
>Implying I don't just play devils advocate online for the sake of it
>>46330957
That hardly compares to infinite hits
>>46331887
So those were totally the intent of the designers then?
>>46331886
In that case you should definitely post your shop so nobody can play with you.
>>46331918
The other ones? I don't know, but it's not outside the realm of possibility, unlike infinite hits.
>>46331724
While that is really really sexy (seriously, props dude) I prefer mine black as night.
I would paint them vantablack if I could get my hands on it.
I wanted a highlight that wasn't as stark as white but would still look good. Your pic definitely gives me ideas though.
>>46331918
I figured they thought it'd be limited by WYSIWYG
And granted, BA contemptors with 6 assault cannons look fucking badass
>>46331951
Why? Because so far all this has boiled down to is "I don't like this broken thing, so it's more wrong than all these other broken things."
It's still a single Marine that has a 8-9" range and S3. Throw some castellax or rhinos at it, and it's screwed. Have a lascannon mortis standing by to vaporize him the moment he steps onto the board. Yeah, it's broken, but in a very specific way, and is far, far from undefeatable. Nor does it need some autistic skills of anal rules reading to make it work. I'm sure they'll fix it in an FAQ and before then you can agree with your opponent about some houserules regarding it. But people just claiming others are almost cheating for using it is totally dishonest regarding the rules.
>>46332072
Slapping assault cannons onto everything is not hard.
>>46332091
Rhino does nothing. It triggers on hit. It's infinite hit on the rhino.
>>46332091
I don't know why you don't understand how a sub 200 point model shouldn't be able to just remove any sub T6 unit in the game in one shooting phase. Could you please return to 40k General and not come back?
>>46332091
>this completely broken interpretation of the rules is ok because you can kill the guy with intercept
I want BaC babies to leave
>>46332155
S3 doesn't so shit against vehicles.
>>46332157
I don't know why you don't understand how to deal with this shit before an FAQ rolls around.
If this is the most broken, badly conceived thing in HH for you, you're lived a sheltered life.
>>46332202
You must be one of those people who think that WE get free chainaxes.
>>46331996
It's not my work, it was in my inspiration folder.
>>46332233
I'm not going to deal with it because Forge World already said it doesn't work and anyone who tries to use it IRL is just going to lose anyone willing to play them.
I'm an adult who plays this game to have fun, I don't have to put up with RAW lawyers like you and this community doesn't cater to those sorts. You're in the wrong thread m8
>>46332238
Are you paying 30 points for your Phoenix spears?
>>46332202
>interpretation
You make it sound like there's totally different interpretation of the rules. I'd love to hear it, sir.
Also, way to not sound like an elitist asshole who thinks they know better, while denying reality. How about you learn to deal with it, rather than bitch about it on the internet or pack up your toy soldiers and leave? If you can't deal with a single Marine, you shouldn't be playing 30k, a game of Marines on Marines.
>>46332294
You mean the interpretation by Forge World where they said it specifically doesn't work with hand Flamers?
>>46332294
>elitist asshole
I am an elitist asshole. I actually paid to get into this game unlike you Warseer babies and I play with other people who are actually invested in the game, emotionally and financially. It lets me avoid dumb shits like you who ruined 40k and I hope you stay with that sinking ship.
>>46332293
FW specifically stated that chainaxes are not free.
>>46332270
>this community doesn't cater to those sorts
Which is why we never, ever, debate over chainaxes in these threads.
>>46332361
So you are purchasing the prerequisite weapon for your Phoenix spears before you buy them right?
>>46328934
Fast Attack for Thousand Sons, breachers with jet packs.
reminder
>>46332373
Didn't happen before Calth.
>>46332331
You mean the facebook comment by some dude, who's not even part of the rules team, who doesn't even seem to know the rule he's talking about? The one he seems to think talks about rolling to hit, when it doesn't? Pretty legit.
Lets just see what they get into an FAQ.
>>46332388
I think they should have special recon squad. They apparently had some covert ops guys.
Why would anyone want to play Imperial Fists? I've been looking into them, and here's what I've been seeing:
BS buff on bolters, when others get missile launchers and other actual marine-slayer weapons.
Toughness boost through their Rite of War, where others get toughness boosts just for existing
Stubborn in cover, which seems underwhelming at best
Boosts to challenges, which fits the Black Templars they'll become, not the Fists they are now
What am I missing?
>>46332360
Well, at least you admit it.
>>46332447
>b-b-but it's the wrong part of Forgeworld
Justify your cheating, go ahead
>>46332464
>What am I missing?
You are looking at rules instead of fluff.
>>46332398
>>46332361
So you EC shits are remembering you buy your power fist before you buy a Phoenix spear right?
>>46332450
I mean they don't have anything at all, so to be serious:
Elite (and Command Squad): Sekhmet Terminators
Fast Attack: Hidden Ones
Heavy Support: Cataphractii Automata Maniple
Generic option: Librarians can be taken in groups of 1-3 and distributed around like Apothecaries and Techmarines.
>>46332501
If I wanted fluff, I'd go read the novels. I'm going to be playing the rules, so I'm evaluating them.
>>46332482
>statements of anyone working for the company are official company policy
So does this mean GW store staff rulings are as valid as official FAQs?
>>46332503
>WAAAH WHY AM I NOT ALLOWED TO CHEAT
>>46332521
You asked why would anyone want to play IF.
>>46332537
But it's true, the wording is exactly the same. Why is it different for them? It should cost an IC 30 points to take a Phoenix spear, full stop
>>46331724
That is really nice anon, keep up the good work.
>>46332567
>Why is it different for them?
Because FW says it is.
>>46332515
Actually a 5 man command squad that's all librarians would be nice.
>>46332585
Where do they say Phoenix spears work differently with the same rules? That's not RAW kiddo ;^)
>>46332585
No they did not. They said that you had to pay for chainaxes. IIRC there was absolutely no discussion of other wargear. Since phoenix spears and hand flamers use EXACTLY the same kind of wording, the only logically coherent answer is that you MUST buy the wargear they are replacing first.
>>46332634
>As a wargear option.
They aren't the same retard, that's why there's a debate every fucking thread.
>>46332672
>if you have access to a chainsword
>if you have access to a power fist
It's exactly the same, stop trying to get out of paying the point cost you cheater
>>46332587
sure would be nice, I expect some half-measure like brotherhood of psykers for the sake of making the game go faster.
>>46332729
>If you have access to a powerfist as a wargear option.
>If you have access to a chainsword.
Fucking retarded, one is has a level of ambiguity one is crystal clear for no purchase necessary.
>>46332729
BAIT
A
I
T
>>46332796
nothing is free in life except the sloppy blowjobs in the back of shitty bars I'm sure you love; pay for your shit
>>46332736
I hope that the Legion rule include options for every IC or sergeants to get psyker mastery level 1 by paying some arbituary points.
I heard that Librarians break the game though. Do they really?
>>46332940
>if the squad has access to a sergeant, he may be upgraded to have psyker mastery level 1 for free
>>46332975
>free psykers in every unit
Seems broken. I refuse to play anyone doing this.
>>46332796
But you don't have acess to a power fist until you buy it, why do you like cheating so much? I bet you hate hand Flamers moritats too
>>46332975
15 points, at least.
Allow vets and maybe some other unique unit to get brotherhood of psykers and a higher ML
What book is the matrix of ruin from? It's an option on the HH battlescribe force options, and i'm not sure if it's legit.
>>46332940
I wouldn't say that they break the game (there is a snowball effect though), but the more psykers you have, the more of an annoyance the psychic phase becomes.
Every time you want to use a power you're adding a couple of rolls; if the power is a witchfire or malediction you're adding yet even more rolls. This is for the main part non-interactive for the opponent. It's not fun.
The snowball thing is really that you're getting more warp charges and more rolls on the discipline tables. That means your one super psyker can fire off more powers, and you are more likely top have one librarian get some amazing power like Invisibility. Again, it's not fun.
Personally I would like to see something like: Upgrade a Sergeant to the Practicus rank. This grants him a passive ability based on his temple.
Corvidae: Re-roll the first failed armor save of the phase
Pyrae: +1 S to the model's first ranged attack of the phase
Pavoni: +1 S to the model's first CC attack of the phase
Athaneans: ??
Raptora: ??
Less rolls, less warp charge fuckery, less annoyances, still magical psychic bullshit desuu for the sons.
>>46333116
Taghmata, it's a unique option for the Ordo Reductor only.
>>46333070
>Look if I ignore the facts a pretend like hypocrisy it will be maymays.
>>46332809
>>46333175
>Unique for Ordo Recuctor only.
Damn, thanks for the info.
>>46330258
You appear to have slapped the wrong buttocks, cheater
>>46333201
>like a hypocrisy
Free Phoenix spear advocates, gentlemen. The lowest of the low
>>46333251
Buttmad WAACfags, everyone
>>46330656
>I don't understand he keeps spitting acid on the bars
>The Imperial Fists never did anything like this!
>>46330258
He just slapped Alpharius' ass, who laughs heartily and then decks him in one, then throws him out the nearest airlock.
>>46333266
>WE
>WAAC
>>46333348
>reading rules the way you want to
>not WAAC
>>46333266
No, just a stale troll.
The fact that
>as a wargear option.
is in the book is too obvious to ignore
>report for decimation
>>46331724
Wow this is cool. How did you do this?
>>46333128
I kinda like your idea of Cults being Marks of Chaos.
I've also heard rumours that TS are getting their own power list so maybe some of the more annoying ones will be toned down
>>46332091
I don't think it's unreasonable to say that infinite hits is more wrong than other arguably-imbalanced rules.
>>46333379
>Reading an ambiguous rule one way that makes sense
>Person disagrees with you
>"You must be a WAACfag"
Truly you suck enough cocks to belong in the Emperors Children
Remember when FW rules were actually better than GW ones? Me neither.
>>46333435
>disregarding official FW ruling in favor of your own version
>not WAAC
>>46330258
Slap his with a moon.
Are people generally cool with playing game against an army with LoW, in 2000pts or below-level? I just don't want to go to arms race, or make people feel they're cheated.
>>46333484
Better LoW than chainaxe abusers
>>46333468
>email is FW ruling more-so than any fucking red-shirt.
I get the axe fags are being shits today, but c'mon man.
>>46333484
Titan at 2000 points? Might be cheesy
fellblade? Not really
Primarch? You're hurting yourself
>>46332881
What bars are you frequenting??
>>46332464
Maybe things have changed with the latest books, but for a time they were top-tier. Great terminators, wargear, characters (excluding Dorn), good for infantry-heavy armies. They're very common in tournaments and not just because everyone likes painting yellow.
>>46333484
2000 is in that awkward zone where a LoW can dominate a game (less so for superheavy tanks) but the game's big enough that they're not ridiculous, either.
>>46333492
What about chainaxe? Isn't it just ap4 ccw?
>>46333595
yes
>>46333610
...and that's abusable?
>>46332464
>What am I missing?
BS5 on bolters aint no joke, it means sniper vets can be brutal, seekers are BS6 so the small blast ammo only scatters 1d6'', 3++ for characters and termies who can also deep strike and tank hunting heavy support squads will rape tanks into submission.
Do you not like vanilla or something?
>Boosts to challenges, which fits the Black Templars they'll become, not the Fists they are now
You make Sigismund cry.
>>46333394
>>46332580
>>46331996
>>46332249
Like I said, I posted it but it's not my work, I did message the guy. He did a Vallejo dark sea blue coat then badab wash.
My work is pic related and still far behind.
>>46333634
>free +1A
>not abuse
>>46333634
WEs get their chain axes for free and some people get really mad about that
>>46333468
Do Tactical Squad have the option of using CCW if yes then they get Chainaxes for free
>>46333661
FW already said that they have to pay for chainswords first.
>>46333654
Which one is better, +1A or +1 to wound?
>>46333654
>Melee Legion is good at melee
STOP THE FUCKING PRESSES
>>46333638
Oh I've seen your models before too, clean but a little bit too monotone. Dirty up the bases a bit more, add on the squad markings that Raven Guard are known for.
>>46333689
Infinite hand flamer shots
>>46327977
Each choice is almost masterfuly picked as to be just off enough to be completely wrong, but not so off as to be obvious at a glance. Kudos.
>>46327977
Swap angron and kharn around
>>46331724
Lovely work.
I just got the new Red Books in the mail today. Is the Leviathan Dreadnought in the CAL book? Or was that one not updated? Can't seem to find it.
>>46333478
That's the worst drawing Rachel Pierce has ever drawn. Whoever is directly her work needs a slap.
>>46333753
Got me wondering, how does Chain Fire work with volkite? It causes additional hits, so do those trigger more shooting attacks or what?
>>46333926
I thought he kept firing until he missed, then you move onto wound rolls where volkite can activate. The dude's stopped shooting by the time volkite starts burning stuff.
>>46333915
The generic Astartes Red Book wasn't updated yet, only the Legions book received an update. So the Leviathan is in book 6 for now.
>>46332360
>emotionally invested
jesus fucking christ, kid
>>46333484
>>46333500
There's a reason the 25% point limit on LoW exist.
>>46333953
What if you stop voluntarily without having a miss?
Will a 3k list with no tanks, primarchs or stuff like that always get raped?
>>46333921
It's an edit.
>>46334028
Then he's put his pistols in the holsters while he watches the pretty fireworks. He can't get them out again until the next turn.
>>46333993
Anyone who spends their spare time talking about a game on a forum is emotionally invested in that game. Or really, really, really bored.
People who deride others or who are incredulous that people can be passionate about their hobbies are idiots. It's like you don't realize sports fanaticism isn't a thing. I'm not even the guy you're talking to either. I'm surprised he hasn't blown a gasket over chinaman buying poorfags if he's this upset over BaC newfags.
>>46333981
Oh good, I was worried the update cycle would make sense. Deredeo's not in there either. Good thing the pdfs are on Forgeword.
>>46333998
Primarch's Chosen is pretty fun RoW though.
>>46334044
Nah, Alpha Legion does it pretty well. I've always wanted to see an Imperial Fists yellow tide style list.
Just keep in mind that you WILL lose a lot of guys before list kicks in.
>>46334045
Actual picture.
>>46334079
Actual non-edited picture I meant.
>>46332360
>invested in the game
>avoid dumb shit
>by denying obvious problems with the rules
Tell us more about how Mars pattern rhinos, MkV castaferrums and MkIII land raiders don't exist in HH and how you're so much more invested in the game and the lore.
>>46334066
>i'm not even that guy
Sure you aren't.
>>46334065
Must have missed that part of the rule.
>>46334078
I'm doing a NL terror assault list with a strong anti-infantry focus, most of the antitank is meltabombs with a couple lascannons. I was just wondering whether playing against a more well-rounded list at 3k would be challenging or depressing...
>>46333478
>>46334079
This is all I see when I see his face.
>>46334155
>pre-emptively inb4 any retarded samefag accusations
>retards gonna retard regardless
Here's your (you). Good job shitting up your own generals.
>>46326504
Whoever did Kharn's voice in Chosen of Khorne needs to never be allowed to do his voice again. Motherfucker sounded like Jafar from Aladdin.
>>46334195
Looks like he didn't think the moon plan wouldn't work but now he sees it did.
>>46334167
I play the NL terror assault and I've found that the Infiltrate didn't get me as close as I wanted. And that the lack of ranged Anti-tank did cause problems.
It depends on what points value you'll be playing at and how many lascannons you field.
>>46326434
>that Alpharius turned the other way
>that Omegon hiding behind him
>>46328934
Alpha Legion Militia
BS4 GEQ
Compulsory and optional troops choice for armies with LA (Alpha Legion)
>>46334201
>good job shitting up your own generals
The thread went to shit a hundred posts ago.
Tell me more about things I should give a fuck about.
>>46328934
Fast attack for EC:
Pheonix spear jousting jetbikes, look like the sammael model instead of dickbikes, up the WS to 5, 2 attacks(3 on sergeant, non-optional), lose access to special weapon upgrades.
45 ppm?
What should I put in the castellum stronghold for weapons? Was considering just 5 whirlwind launchers for fire support.
>>46334252
There's a whole lot of alphas in that picture, look more closely.
I miss when these generals weren't fucked up by rules lawyers and primarch-fags.
These days the only time it becomes decent is during the time a new book is released and scanned.
>>46334415
Hahah holy shit
>>46333478
He looks like a kiddo saying "I did the naughty"
>>46334262
Addendum: HQ (not Consul) Alpha Legion Agent. Inquisitor-like 3 wound HQ who can take special rules for the AL militias.
>>46334415
Top kek,so funny
>>46328092
Because even FW have based Guilliman on him?
>>46334846
Precisely.
>>46332515
nah make it:
Sehkmet Terminators
Scarab Occult Veterans
Cataphract Robots
>>46334503
>>46334593
I count 7, that makes the alpha legion nurgle's bitches
5 outriders with plasma guns and melta bombs worth it?
>>46335009
Looks expensive as fuck.
I'm guessing I can't but just in case, can I pop smoke and flat out?
>>46335535
Nah, they both replace the shooting attack you were about to make.
I believe nowadays they specify you can't do one if you did the other.
>>46334079
Remarkable.
So this turned out more interesting than I thought.
>>46335804
What's it for?
>>46335820
I think that's from the Talisman game.
>>46335894
Should have been Relic, what a shame.
>>46335991
A 30k game is what I pray for. I'm not too great at RTS games but please let it be like space marine.
>>46332639
>Not a FAQ,
>Not an official Reprint
Full stop here, nothing in that email matters after that point. It doesnt matter.
>>46332585
No, that interpretation would not change with the EC or any other ruling if it was legit, no where does this say "only for world eaters should you interpret this kind of wording this way"
So choose, run with a ruling that ignores the english language, by a person with confirmed misinterpretations, and apply it to all legions, or go shove it as its not official, and never was made official, over the multiple times it could have been clarified and your just trying to deny your opponent their own legion rules because of your autism.
Its that simple ;)
>>46333070
>Doesnt know the definition of "access"
>Doesnt know the definition of "Instead"
funny shit right there
>>46333380
"Access" and "access as a wargear option" are the same, if you have "access" to something that means it can be acquired, if you HAVE something your also have access to something. retard.
>>46333497
Not an official FW ruling, at all. Where is that ruling in the official FAQ or Errata? I dont see it?
>>46336120
FAQ or Errata is not more official than email from FW.
>>46333654
>This butthurt
>"Whaaaa, the legion based of getting alot of attacks start with 1 more attack then me!"
ahh, is baby gunna cry...
>>46336170
toxic
Haven't read up on Destroyers as much as i should have.
How far am i from a fluffy paintjob ?
>>46336154
>>Email given to a single individual is somehow more valid then company officiated documents designed to specify problems and clarify rules given to the entire general public.
>People actually believe free Axes are not the intended rule
>Get random CS rep to read and interpret a rule wrong
>Parade it as something of worth while the company continues to use the same ruling and interpretation with other wargear
>RAW is free axes
>RAI is free axes
>The English language is free axes
>Being this bad at reading rules
Look at this fag, they are really grasping at straws now.
>>46336154
Fucking kek.
>>46336199
>So sad he had to respond
Ahh so sorry your upset...lol
>>46336298
You're really trying hard to bend the rules your way aren't you? The email is official ruling, whether you like it or not. FW haven't put it in a FAQ because they presume the player possess at least some common sense.
>>46336120
>"Access" and "access as a wargear option" are the same
General consensus interpretation wise, yes.
But one has a defined meaning that has never been questioned, and one is vague enough to cause a shitstorm in this thread every day as well as general confusion upon it's release.
I'm in the free-axe camp, but I'm under no delusions that there is a clear (enough)RAW.
>>46336359
Feel free to go back to the 40k general anytime. HH doesn't need powergaming faggots like you.
>>46336120
>Not an official FW ruling, at all. Where is that ruling in the official FAQ or Errata? I dont see it?
Are you retarded or do you just not get greentext?
Anon is saying that e-mails are redshirt levels of official and that the anon he was responding to didn't get that.
>>46336399
>official ruling
See the other dozen comments about red-shirts this thread, it's an employee off the cuff not a rules FAQ.
Fact of the matter is that the interpretation is not clear and you'll need to sort it out for yourselves at your lgs or wherever.
>>46336425
Powergaming involves trying to twist rules through bad interpretation for the advantage, the only "powergaming" trying to make his opponent pay points for equipment they clearly get for free by their own rules.
"pay for axe" fags would be considered the powergamers in this situation, of course if they had an actual leg to stand on rules wise.
Stay mad bro, your a lesser for it.
I just last weekend have been introduced to the amazing world of HH. Met an old friend of mine at a party and found out, that he has an entire HH gaming-group and they meet once every two weeks. Playing 40k myself i wanted to get into HH for ever, with the only thing holding me back is that i have nobody to play with. These guys have each over 5-10k points of HH stuff and i want to get in. Their Legions are: Sons of Horus, Iron Warriors, World Eaters+Deathguard, Iron Hands+Admech and i think Ultramarines.
I am going to start the only good Legion there ever was: Imperial Fists. And i want to the Stone Gauntlet Rite of War and i want to play two big blobs of breacher squads with apothecaries.
I am willing to put a lot of money and effort into this project and it doesnt have to be the best list there ever was, but i fear, that i will sink immense resources (money, work and in the end points) into 30-40 breachers and 10 termies with 4-6 shields for what is in the end "only" one toughness.
Is it worth it /tg/? I know it will look sexy as fuck and it will fir IF lore like a glove (!) but something inside me says, that 1315 is a bit much for 50 guys:
20 Breachers, Vexilla, Sergant with Fist and Artificer, Legion Apothecary
20 Breachers, Vexilla, Sergant with Fist and Artificer, Legion Apothecary
10 Termies, Tartaros, 5x Fist, 6x Shield, Legion Apothecary
Note that all the special weapons are missing. What would you give breachers and what is good with termies? i have thaught about leaving the breachers without any and giving the termies two plasma blasters.
>>46336493
>Implying one of these fags would ever be ballsy enough to try to force someone to pay for their axes
They are just tryhard baiters anon, no one really believes that outside of the internet.
>>46336533
>WAAH I WANT FREE STUFF DESPITE FW SAYING I DON'T GET FREE STUFF
>>46336533
Either party attempting to vouch for an interpretation based on an intent to win over their honest impression would be a power-gammer, regardless of correctness.
Can we let go of the axe debate for 24h?
>>46336686
Why not at all times?
>>46336686
Chainaxes are not free. HHG must be littered with pointless arguments etc.
>>46336686
HA!
No, we've tried.
FW, please just add 'as a wargear option, or in their profile' or swap to 'may replace for free' I honestly couldn't care which at this point.
>>46336577
IF Termies are great. I prefer deep striking vanilla termies, or claw+volkite/plasma Tartaros, but you can’t really go wrong with any loadout (I know shields are their thing… just don’t have any experience with them so I can’t make recommendations).
Breachers are a little tougher to use… they’re overcosted (not dramatically, just a bit). Imperial Fists get some help with that BS5 rule, so maybe it makes up for it. But that could be your weak spot. Personally, I’d replace a squad with something faster.
>>46336596
>>WAAH SOME CS REP SAID THIS ONE RANDOM GUY ON THE INTERNET HAD TO PLAY A RULE WRONG BUT EVERYONE ELSE DOESNT AGREE WITH IT
>>46336742
Why is there even an option for WE to swap chainswords for chainaxes anyway? Khârn couldn't use a sword to save his life, and they're all axe crazy anyway.
>>46336686
I pray they fix it in the new book, I play WE and it doesn't matter that much as I can just swap out bolters. I just want the shitposting to end. I feel that neither groups actually play WE and just want to ruin a thread
>>46336848
>feel that neither groups actually play WE and just want to ruin a thread
The 40k General has a lot of people like that.
>>46336805
thanks for the response. i thought so about the breachers. the whole thing about the stone gauntlet rite is, that i get +1 toughness as long as i have 3+ man with shields(breacher/storm). so that would be t5 termies and breachers with fnp.
>>46336686
A more interesting debate is "are named characters able to get legion wargear" such as a cyber-familiar
>>46336906
Raven guard characters can definitely take camo cloaks or whatever they are called
>>46336887
If you want to use a bunch of breachers and are starting out try Zone Mortalis
>>46336742
Their rules state that they take the axe "instead" of the sword, making them have to buy the sword means that they cant take the axe INSTEAD, so the rule would literally not work the way it is written.
They would have to change the entire wording to make it replace, because you are not replacing, as you would need to have the weapon, you are taking an option instead
>>46336825
There is no rule saying they "swap swords for axes" they take axes as a different option instead.
So a tactical marine has the options of:
exchanging their bolter for a Chainsword or combat knife
Buy a chainsword for 2 points
or, if they are world eaters, they may instead take a chainaxe for free so long as you model it.
So the tactical marine keeps his pistol and bolter and takes a free axe. That is how the rule works.
>>46336887
It'd be, well, very IF - a tough army. But you need more offensive power, so I'd either shrink the breacher squads or only take one. You can't win every battle through defense.
>>46336906
Unless it says so no. Special characters cannot take upgrades.
>>46337022
i have to take breacher squads as my compulsory troop choice if i go stone gauntlet. this means i need to take two of them
>>46336978
It was strangely worded - something like, "if a unit has the option to take a chainsword, they can take a chainaxe for free." People can't agree on whether "has the option to take" means you need to pay to take that option or if the option just has to exist. These guys are creative types, not computer programmers who would be precise with all this logic stuff. All we can do is ask them for clarification and then argue over how authoritative that clarification is.
They're going to get a moon dropped on them anyway. Makes me wonder how there are so many left in the 41st millennium. They must keep recruiting, right? But they're all insane by then.
>>46337075
That's not a rule.
It's legal but generally doesn't matter much. The only noteworthy examples are Autek Mor getting a 3++ Cyber Familiar, and Alvarex Maun getting Cameleoline.
>>46336686
Alright. If this post ends in an odd number WE tacticals get chainaxes without buying chainswords, if this post ends in a even number WE tacticals must pay 2ppm for CCW and then replace them with chainaxes. Either way pls no shitposting
>>46337137
No, its pretty clear right here. baiters just like to imagine that english doesnt work properly.
>inbf 90% of the arguers in this thread havent even seen the rule
>>46337197
New! Leave all axes in this thread.
>>46337075
Quote page and paragraph.
THIS ENTIRE FUCKING THREAD HOLY SHIT
I just want rational discussion for once
