Didn't see a new one made, so here it is.
It's a good setiing.
Link to the Google Docs: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1pAduIU7TDaKHvvaUfzRbgYj44TX_hApLeNeVu2d5bbM/edit?usp=sharing
So there was talk of a class tree if one wanted a prestige class, which would be dependent on one's actions, not just experience.
Anyone thought about examples?
Bumping with some pics
>>46326198
>>46326209
>>46325364
Class trees would have a base, such as Warrior. The tree would have a few branches, such as Beserkers or Knight that a character could improve upon. Multicasting would then be the act of improving by purchasing abilities from another class branch or tree entirely.
>>46325364
It was things like
>Fighter -> fight almost exclusively offensively -> can become berserker if they want.
>fight almost exclusively defensivelly -> can become Guardian.
It wouldn't be 'better' than their previous class, but the incentive is that it has skills that favors the play-style. They can stick to the old class if they want, such as wanting to keep some versatility, or the situations where coincidental and they're hoping for another prestige.
Not sure if it should just be one, or if there would be several levels of specialization to the point where they could be near perfect for specific tasks or situation, but progressively ill suited for others.
I'm bored, I'll draw some bug folk if you have any requests
>>46327391
Fly mafia gang. With a Fly boss and a pair of Horsefly thugs.
>>46327457
>>46327391
Don't forget the Mafia Roaches
>>46327391
I'll put in a request for a Butterfly Sorceror slinging some spells, or a Bee Pyromancer turning up the heat.
so for the tech level of guns is like those used in Iron Town in Princess Mononoke, handgonnes and early rifles?
>>46327768
Yes pretty much. Early rifles and flintlock pistols, with some more imagined/interesting guns thrown in, such as the cannon lance
>>46325364 >>46326576 >>46326907
As a long time player of DnD I'm hafta put my opinion out there on this.
Please no. Please make this idea go and stay go.
There are DnD prestige classes that have some variety of system requirement like this. And it's really just irritating. By hard coding it into the rules it takes away agency from the players and the DM by forcing often arbitrary requirements on them, instead of assuming that we've got our big kid pants on and are able to figure these things out ourselves.
Add to this that whether a player's actions are sufficient to qualify for this is an absurdly subjective thing, barring very strict rules see again taking away player choice and agency, and it just becomes a big, awkward mess.
It's an unnecessary complication when you can just take the mold that most DnD prestige classes use (needing certain amounts of BAB/skill ranks/feats) if the intention is to make prestige classes.
Also, >>46326907 prestige classes are 'theoretically' supposed to be the tradeoff of increased specialisation. But it's not like DnD has ever been a well balanced game. Inb4 the CoDzillas and Scry&Die teams come and get us.
While looking through the doc I feel that our religions are lacking in depth. We have very basic beliefs, but we don't have a lot of, if any, stuff on how they worship.
Another thing that we should address is the concept of holy/divine magic. Clerics should be included I feel, but how would their magic appear? What would it do?
Lunarian clerics would most likely have some for of "lunar magic", possibly focused on healing, but what of the others? How would a cleric of the Horn and Shell use magic?
>>46327900
Also isn't this supposed to be a world that doesn't have crunch?
I've been hanging around since the first thread and the initial idea was "Create a bug world that you can slot into any mechanical system."
So no more of this silly class business. Get back to talking about dem cool bug societies!
>>46327855
I could see hwachas developed by flies as anti-behemoth and giant animal deterrents.
A notorious Fly bandit-lord utilizes a stolen Mano'war war-dirigible armed with hwachas and cannons developed and maintained by kidnapped alchemists. Has a ragtag group of wasps, flies, roaches and other flying races
>>46327924
I'd say, do not take clerics for granted. Bug World is it's own setting, not specifically aimed for D&D. Clerics who cast are religious mages, none of the religions they worship actually grant powers, or have confirmed deities. They could definitely have a specific flair, believe their magic to come from their god, and have a tendency towards different spells, but in essence, anything another mage could cast, a 'cleric' could learn how to cast too.
>>46327900
It's smarter to just make highly-specialized classes that have a very fast progression. Ones set up in such a way that they are far weaker if you don't meet the "requirements". For example, what use is a class that allows amazing 1v1 melee combat if you're a healer?
>>46327900
Looking at this and the class discussion that has gone on, I feel like bringing out what the roll20 group has been working on.
Due to us wanting to try out the setting, we decided to attempt to make a system of sorts, but as the thread that was up was being slow, we didn't post any of our ideas.
What we're working with currently is a tree type system, made up of 4 archetypes, that can all specialize in what they want to by leveling skills each level.
I do agree with >>46327951 however, it may not be the time to discuss any crunch in the threads, as we still have a lot of building to do, so we shouldn't get bogged down in classes just yet
>>46327998
Exactly. Because a "cleric" or paladin believes they get their powers from praying and sacrifice or oaths, then that is what triggers their innate abilities.
There are no confirmed true gods, only hallucinations and tulpas created by the mass belief of the worshipers.
Didn't PR include the big discussion we had about the nature of magic and divinity in the googledoc?
>>46327924
Horn and Shell clerics would cast spells, likely with their horns as the focus for offensive spells and their shells for Defensive spells.
>>46328074
>only hallucinations and tulpas
Not even this. The only thing religions have got going for them that real life religions do not, is that magic responds to their expectations. Prayers go unanswered just like ours.
If you enjoy drawing small critters, kindly check out the Evolution Game thread! We can always use more creatures!I dont think you usually do this kind of post in /tg/ but theres nothing harm done in asking, right?
>>46328099
>not paladins with holy hymns and auras
Bugger pls
>>46327998
>>46328074
I like this, it's like what I had in mind. A cleric would simply be a regular magic user, but would "pull" from a differnt idea, so the magic would be more based on belief.
What would the magic do though? How would a Horn and Shell worshipper believe the magic granted to them would work?
>>46328074
I dont know if he put that in yet, I'm on mobile so I cant check easily
>>46328118
>Strengthen the Horn. Strengthen the Shield.
Horn and Shell worshippers believe their magic to be tied specifically with their weapons and shields, and more loosely with offense and defence in general. In game terms it means 'buff' spells would be preferred, spells that make one hit harder, and take a beating easier, spells that add specific effects to their weapons, or make them spectacularly resistant to specific weapons.For you D&D players, this would probably mean a 'Smite' buff would be available.
>>46328180
This is good. I'm getting a battle cleric/paladin feel from the Horn and Shell worshipers.
While we're on Horn and Shell, what would be am example of a religious ceremony for them?
I feel that the ceremony would be led by two beetles, a male and female, both with brightly decoracted horn and shell respectively.
>>46328273
On special days they reenact the creation of the world by the Horned Father and Shelled Mother. Certain events might have been seen as the Horned Father being angry or the Shelled Mother trying to soothe her children.
>>46328103
Then how do we explain entities like the leeches Kind God or the venomancers Mad God of Venom?
Not gods, just supernatural beings either preexisting or brought into being by their believers yet still not truly powerful?
>>46328659
What like how gods work in American Gods?
>>46327391
Infamous spider rogue/thief.
>>46327457
>>46327470
>>46327628
>>46330276
Alright I'll start these as soon as I get home.
>>46328659
Those gods would not be gods per SE, as there are no true gods. Their followers would draw power from their belief.
Magic and the nature of magic is still something i'm trying to succinctly explain as a matter of faith which could do with some help. Here's what I've got so far
>"Magic in this world has existed since the first bugs gained sentience. While these bugs may have known the “truth” of how magic works, those truths have been lost to time. Today, magic is seen as a channeling of one’s faith in something. The stronger one’s belief, the stronger the magics that can be produced. Because all magic is now rooted in faith, it takes the form of the faith in a way, due to the beliefs of the caster.
>Magic is a waning practice as more and more bugs invest their faith in the more scientifically demonstrable fly alchemy, choosing its simple processes over the the complicated and rigorous practices required to magic"
I'm trying to put how magic is something that the more bugs believe it to be strong, the more potent it is. This would allow dark and old magic to still be crazily powerful even if one guy starts practicing it with enough faith in its abilities.
>>46327951
Is correct - it is vital that, while adapting a system or many systems for *true name pending* Bugworld is an important endeavour, Bugworld itself shouldn't have a defined hard coded rule set associated with it directly in the world building hence why only a link to the DnD adaptation is there.
>>46332163
That seems good for how the religious magic happens, but how does the fire magic of the bees, or the electromancy of the hornets occur? Faith in their leader? Faith in themselves?
>>46332351
Good question. The innate elemental abilities of certain race are either biological to some degrees, showing that there is much the mages still do not know about magic, or stem from a strong culture-wide belief, which races the question as to why Ant and Termite colonies do not and still shows that there are some unknowns in magic,
Glory to the wizard who figures it out and advances the magical arts.
>>46325180
>>46332163
Do the bugs use catalyts to channel/focus their magic?
>>46332533
>>46332611
They use poses.I know nothing about the subject, just wanted to share after seeing OP's pic in catalog. Moving on
>>46332454
So the magics of innately magical species is biological at some level, but they believe it is because they are "chosen or blessed"?
Also, I think that the wizard to discover the secrets to magic would not be able to comprehend it. Look at the mantis shrimp. They're insane, for they can see beyond. But the insanity is what other bugs perceive. Is it because they are actually insane? Or because they know the nature of magic?
>>46332163
>Today, magic is seen as a channeling of one’s faith or belief in something. The stronger one’s belief, the stronger the magics that can be produced. Because all magic is now rooted in faith, it takes the form of the faith in a way, due to the beliefs of the caster.
>Most modern magic stems from a trial-and-error methodology that created a feedback into the author's magical convictions. Those who found it natural, convenient, or sensible to use rites, trinkets or catalysts, realized their magic worked best when casted with these aids or fetishes, despite the fact that these were not necessary for it. One's 'ideal' form, function, and method of one's magic shapes the actual magic casted.
>Despite these limitations being mostly self-imposed, magic is not easy. The ability to shape or cast it is not solely limited by one's imagination (although a vast imagination is still supremely useful). Mastering the methods of one's ideal magic can make one a better magician, and their magic more powerful, but this is useless without the raw magical skill.
>Magic can be learned, but it requires practice, and does not flow naturally from oneself. In a way, the caster is forcing magic into a specific shape, and this can be tiresome, or dangerous, and sometimes, outright impossible without the right skill. Convictions aid this by making this shaping more natural and attuned to one's expectations of their abilities. A skilled magician who lacks in faith will be severely hampered, the shape of the spell too unnatural to his expectations. A magician strong in convictions may be masterful in his methods and have all the right tools, but if his skill is lacking the effect will be reduced (or null).
>>46332945
perfect, i'll fiddle around with this
>>46332756
I think in the case of a wizard finding unknown magic, the less they questioned or attempted to understand its origins, the better off it would be for them. (lest they become like the mantis shrimp)
Maybe mantis shrimp believe that their species was cursed with 'seeing' at some point in history.
>>46335139
I like that idea. They delved too deep.
>>46335279
I guess parallels can be drawn between the mantis shrimps and the Malkavian VtM clan
>>46335678
So based on what >>46332945 said, should the many schools of magic exist? Or would the amount of magics available be kept smaller, due to it being from a species?
>>46337474
Each species that has an inclination towards magic has a particular school of magic associated with it. That isn't to say that a Beetle Mage can't use multiple schools. A Bee Mage would naturally focus on Pyromancy, but they could use other magics if they wanted
>>46337619
So what types of magic do you think would end up existing? Just the ones we have currently, pyromancy/electromany and the divine magics, or would there be more "general fantasy magic" as well?
>>46338857
We do have room for unaligned spells, which could range from things like a Mage Hand-esque spell to things like Light.
And there would be the forbidden Biomancy and Automancy schools.
>>46332454
What if magic is a thing of its own? Like, say, magic is actually everywhere, and normal bugs theoretically could harness it with difficulty. But, bugs with faith can channel magic easier than bugs with no faith.
This could create a dynamic later on, as bugs' faith erode - would they harness magic another way? Was Alchemy distilling magic for use with the common bug? As science progresses and more bugs trust in science, would scientists be able to channel magic - or rather, be anti magic?
>>46339731
What if magic is based on the belief that you yourself can do it. It needs to be true belief like you know you can do magic. If you doubt yourself at all then your magic will begin to disappear.
>>46340445
Well yeah, it's kinda like that. Once you stopped believing in you being able to channel magic, the magic field is cut off from you.
If magic is like an electromagnetic field, then the bugs who believe is like having an antenna. Bugs that don't believe gets a faraday cage.
But magic itself exists outside of belief - although only the Mantis Shrimps know this. Other bugs just thinks if you have faith = magic, no faith = no magic.
>>46339731
>>46340572
I like it like this. Magic exists without faith or belief, but it definitely goes a long way to make it easier to wield.
Bipeds
>>46340999
fuck outta here
I just realized that we still don't have a 1d4chan page to catalog all this on.
>inb4 "make one yourself!"
I don't know how.
Also >>46332721, can I get source, Google gives me nothing.
>>46343600
looks pretty racist, Jim
bump before bed
>>46343668
Don't care, looks adorable.
>>46344919
You're pretty racist, Jim
To expand on how religions are actually practiced:
>Lunarians
Based on one of the drawings, maybe they have special reflecting pools to view the full moon in its full splendor. Dances during full moon as part of their rites?
>Deep Lords
Probably altars, small or large, to either one of the Deep Lords or to all of them at once. Sacrifice takes a big part in the rites.
Sometimes, specific things are done to please the specific Deep Lord, kinda like how in Voudun they have a specific set of offerings to each Loa.
Opabinia: A scrap of paper inscribed with a secret, burnt or ripped to shreds and eaten. A book bound with chains, for the devout to write their daily lives and secrets in, to be buried with them and to be seen only by them and Lord Opabinia.
Anomalocaris: An unbroken piece of shell, to be broken on the altar. Clay effigies of soldiers or warriors, to be broken on the altar. Clay effigy of self, to be broken on the altar, then pieced together and re-molded as a battle charm.
Wiwaxia: A piece of meat, struck with thorns or spines or needles. An idol depicting Lady Wiwaxia. An intoxicating liquor, to be poured on the altar or idol.
Hallucinogenia: A kind of liquor made from hallucinogenic mushroom, to be imbibed while praying. A walking stick that's been used on a walkabout. A piece of colored glass stuck haphazardly on a sort of frame for a charm.
Marrella: A small effigy of a trilobite, made of wood. A piece of favourite food left on the altar.
>>46348240
These are pretty good.
Do Wasps practice Sun worship? Maybe with the advent of the Electro Wasps there is a new cult or following growing around it
>>46348240
Did you know they've determined that modern day Velvet Worms are the last surviving descendant of the Hallucugenia?
>>46348902
This could be interesting. A religion that's more western/judeo-christian in nature, with the first "light blessed" wasp as the deity?
Maybe they view him/her as the child of Oznus, or Oznus on earth, like Jesus or the Egyptian Pharaohs
>>46349401
I heard so. Fuck yeah, Velvet Worms.
Maybe Velvet Worms could cause a milder hallucination?
>>46348240
Here's the moth picture mentioned. I pike the idea of Lunarians having a ritual with every cycle of the moon.
>In the beginning, Lunarians followed the cycle of the moon, with other astrological events being untracked
>Recently, with the help of Mantis scholars, the head of the Lunarian church has created a calender, based on the lunar cycle, so that they may better track the more rare lunar events.
>These events include Solar and Lunar eclipses, as well as the Red Moon, a yearly occurrence surrounded by much Lunarian celebration
>>46349417
The glue they spray causes the hallucinations and some enterprising drug lords have captured several worms with the intent to harvest the glue for a new drug
>>46349552
Bug drugs are the best drugs.
>One of the roach mafia families has been accused of kidnapping well known fly alchemists
>They Have denied everything, and no proof has come up
>The roaches have kidnapped these flies, and are forcing them to produce this new kind of hallucinogenic to be sold on the underground market
>>46349773
Also they are forced to experiment on the worms
>>46349458
I like this
>>46349788
Pls no bully
>>46349458
MOOOOOON WOOOTSHIIIP!
>>46350305
Bully all the flies
>>46350664
I meant no bully the worms
>>46351044
Bully the worms
>>46351560
Careful this is a blue board
So what do we need still?
>>46353361
More religious fluff would be fantastic if you have any ideas. Mainly stuff on the Lord of The Sky, Oznus, and what practicers of that faith do, as there is very little on that.
Currently it's just
>They believe in Oznus, lord of the Sky
>Believe their souls will return to the sky
>Mostly practiced by flying bugs
>>46354373
Once I get home I'll expand on an idea I have
>>46355493
Cool, thanks anon
>>46354373
Oznus, Lord of the Sky, is one of the most commonly worshiped Gods in the land of Arath. The majority of his worshipers are predictably winged insects with Butterflies being among the most numerous of his followers. Oznus is commonly depicted as a butterfly or sometimes even a multi-colored Roc, one of the beasts that fly high above, rarely descending to the earth except to rear their chicks and feed.
The Winds are believed to be his voice and passions unleashed upon the world. Everything from a gentle breeze that cools a worker in a field to a gale that tears the branches off the largest of Great-Trees. A common expression during a cold wind at the change of the seasons is "Lord Oznus must be sighing."
"Flight is freedom", is one of their core tenets, a worshiper that lost their wings viewed as shunned by the majority of the clergy though there are those that pity them and work to provide aid to the crippled.
Another core part of their belief is the ascension of their souls upon death to join Oznus as he soars eternally through the skies. Most speak of how they become the stars or join their families and loved ones in the paradise that the Sun is a portal to. This ties in partially with the Lunarians belief that at the end of their life mothfolk will go on a spiritual "fly-about" and ascend to the heavens.
While not officially united both religions have close ties and commonly find allies in each other when facing a dire threat.
(And here's my shittiness)
>>46358465
This is fantastic! Do you have any ideas on how a religious ceremony might go? I like the idea of their ceremonies being very joyous and song filled, with the worshipers always being in the air.
>>46358465
>While not officially united both religions have close ties and commonly find allies in each other when facing a dire threat.
I was thinking about this bit. Somehow it would have felt too cliche'd to go 'sun vs. moon', so I like that you wrote this in.
Even if they don't share beliefs they respect each other, and in some regards their religions are compatible.
>>46358629
Always in an open area like a field or hill top where they can be exposed to the sky. They love to sing in their ceremonies, whistles and woodwind instruments usually accompanying the songs.
Priests carry a shepards hook shaped staff that carries a prayer inscribed wind-chime. The Wind-Chime is considered one of Oznus' holy symbols and the largest of his temples in the upper-most branches of the Great-Trees have many of them in a wide range of sizes on display. The slightest breeze causing a symphony of bamboo, wood, metal, crystal, chitin, bone, and any other material they could make. A common practice is for pilgrims to craft a simple Wind-Chime from materials gathered on their pilgrimage and give them to the temples.
>>46358629
Yeah that was trope I tried to avoid. The Moon and Sun are sisters, not rivals
>>46358465
>>46358934
I'll go suggest this in the doc, I'm really liking this.
On avoiding the Sun V. Moon trope, I'm glad you did. I don't think any of the religions of the world would be at odds with each other. They might disagree, but they would not go into conflict/holy wars. The Trilobites and Ammonites did that in the old times. The world was shattered and they were destroyed as a result.
>>46359441
Oh it's already there guess PR liked it. never mind then
>>46359441
I agree. Full out religious Wars and all out war between kingdoms would be avoided. None would want to repeat the mistakes that the Trilobites and Ammonites made.
>>46358465
>"Flight is freedom", is one of their core tenets, a worshiper that lost their wings viewed as shunned by the majority of the clergy though there are those that pity them and work to provide aid to the crippled.
Rather than shunned, I think they'd pity them, in an almost offensive kind of way. Of course there'd be those who are genuine in their pity and offers for help, but most would be condescending, patronizing, dishonest, and would rather pretend they're not there. The effect is similar, but the reasoning is matters from a fluff point of view.
>>46360327
That was more of how I meant it, thanks
>>46359481
>Oh it's already there guess PR liked it. never mind then
nice
HEY GUYS WHO WANTS SOME FUN TRUE SPIDER FACTS??
>Spiders reproduce sexually, however the male's sperm is not inserted into the female's body from within the male's genitals. Rather an intermediate stage takes place. Males ejaculate onto ready-made small sperm webs and then transfer their sperm to syringe-like structures on the tips of their front appendages, or palps. As courtship progresses for the male jumping spider, he will arch his body, vibrate his palps and slink on tiptoe toward the female. If courtship is successful, the male injects his sperm from his palps into the female’s genital opening, known as the epigyne, on the underside of her abdomen.
>In the Tidarren argo species, the male will amputate his own palp before he matures to improve his own mobility, only to have his remaining palp torn off by his mate, which stays attached to her epigyne for about four hours, independently transferring sperm into one of her seminal receptacles.
>Female spiders are able to store sperm from different males inside their bodies and can choose which male gets to fertilize her eggs. As a result, the males in two different spider species treat their respective female partners in completely different ways:
>A male orb-web (Argiope bruennichi) spider will actually break off the tip of his own genitals and leave his "manhood" in the female’s sexual orifice, effectively blocking future male’s efforts to inseminate the female. When her sex hole is blocked, copulation typically lasts for only eight seconds with subsequent males. Normally, male spiders copulate for twice as long, though redbacks can last as long as 31 minutes (and if that seems impressive, check out how a bite from the Brazilian wandering spider can stimulate an hours-long erection).
>>46362562
do not magical realm the bugworld
>>46362433
Also it looks like Arath is the world name now. Neat
>>46362562
These are not fun or appropriate for a setting. Mating habits are things we should probably not touch. Of course, romance in general could definitely be explored.
bump
>>46364039
Slow thread today
>>46366326
The vast majority of contributors are sleeping right now. Keeping the thread alive during their 'night' is always a challenge.
>>46343600
http://www.mangahere.co/manga/kumo_desu_ga_nani_ka/
>>46349405
Wasp Solaire when?
>>46362598
I can just imagine someone calling out through a megaphone and saying that.
Seeing as how Oznus got a good amount of input, I'm going to post some ideas I have for the Golden Mound.
>Known as the common bugs religion, almost every bug that lives in rural areas is a believer/practicer of some kind
>They do not discredit any of the other religions beliefs, but instead embrace them
>Because all came from the Golden Mound, why not Oznus, The Horned Father and Shelled Mother, and the others as well?
>All are welcome to attend at times of worship, no matter belief
>Ceremonies are held monthy, in very simple, non ornate buildings
>"If we were meant to gild are homes and dress ourselves in jewels, we would have come from a Golden Mine, not a Golden Mound" - Head of local Golden Mound church, on why they choose to worship so simply
Thoughts?
>>46370238
>Bug-Quakers
I like it
>>46370238
This is pretty nice.
Is the King of Corpses a god or just a massive long lived assassin bug?
>>46370915
Why not something in between? He could have been a real bug, long ago, who was a really good assassin. He was only mortal, but the stories of his kills kept being told, and grew out of proportion. Now he is seen as the embodiment of death, with much of the truth of his life lost to time
Thoughts?
>>46370238
>Because all came from the Golden Mound, why not Oznus, The Horned Father and Shelled Mother, and the others as well?
I like this, many real life religions do this, recognizing others by canonizing their prophets.
>>46371511
Yeah I dont think the religions should be in conflict at all. The world is already so harsh, no need to make it worse
>>46373199
Agreed
Question, Do the Wasps or the Bees have patron gods? There was talk about both of them worshiping separate sun gods
>>46374782
Bees worship the Queen as a godlike figure. I think wasps and Hornets follow Onzus
>>46374867
>Bees worship the Queen as a godlike figure
I'm still really iffy on that fact but everyone else seems to love it and I'm the only naysayer so whatever lol
>I think wasps and Hornets follow Onzus
That's what I thought since I tied the Sun into Oznus's lore
>>46374920
What do you not like about the concept? We could try to put more depth into how the bee Queen is worshiped.
>>46375696
I think it tickles his autism because 'Queen' is a colloquial term rather than an accurate description of those insect's role within a hive. In real life Queen bees, ants, etc, are merely individuals capable of reproduction, and are not obeyed, worshipped, etc, only serving as 'ovaries' so to speak.
But I think having them play a larger role within their society in Arath would be great, none of the setting is 1:1 with real life. Sapient insects might develop this worship or obedience as a culture, rather than as a biological imperative, and it creates an interesting dynamic, and adds a layer of depth. For example, biological loyalty makes the insect an unquestioning worker, which is sort of stagnant from a worldbuilding point of view. Cultural loyalty gives opportunities for political and ideological conflict and intrigue, since individuals can be more ferviently loyal than others, and so can others be more discontent with the leadership.
All in all, while not perfectly accurate to real life biology, I think it makes the world more interesting as a whole.
>>46375696
>>46374920
I was under the assumption that there were several bee queens who ruled their own hive, similar to the termites and ants so actual practice could be widely varied but that could just complicate things.
You could look at existing religions that considered their monarch as a deity too for inspiration. I've been reading about how you had figures post-humously deified like Dido of Carthage and Guan Yu who mobsters and the police consider almost holy in Hong Kong.
Maybe Queens have a system of deification as a title held by the current ruler of a hive before its passed onto the successor or maybe its something similar to a dali lama where reincarnation means any female bee can potentially become a queen but one must be located and prepared for the role base on a long line of archaic tasks.
>>46375943
>I think it tickles his autism
People still use this as an insult?
Beyond that I actually agree with you on that having a biologically accurate race of Hivers would be boring. There would be no individuality and no room for PCs of them.
>>46376099
>Maybe Queens have a system of deification as a title held by the current ruler of a hive before its passed onto the successor or maybe its something similar to a dali lama where reincarnation means any female bee can potentially become a queen but one must be located and prepared for the role base on a long line of archaic tasks.
These were honestly the routes I was thinking. I just felt that having a leader considered to be a literal living Goddess was too much but apparently I'm autistic so what do I know.
I'm honestly trying to think of why the Living God thing irks me when it works with this setting but I can't form it into words being this sick, so just ignore me.
Were there other gods or religions we needed to expand on? Maybe something for the Spiders and background lore on the King of Corpses "ascension to dietyhood"?
>>46376255
>People still use this as an insult?
Actually, I didn't. I frequently say it of myself when an inaccuracy bothers me irrationally.
>>46376255
>Were there other gods or religions we needed to expand on? Maybe something for the Spiders and background lore on the King of Corpses "ascension to dietyhood"?
dont forget about the Horned Father and Shelled Mother
>>46377603
We expanded on who they are, but not their worship beyond painting the clergy's shells and horns
>>46377603
I think someone made up a King Kong kind of "god" for swamp-dwellers. Think it was actually a Giant Salamander behemoth. The collective belief and faith of the swamp-dwellers could have empowered a behemoth granting it immortality or something. I like the idea of a giant animal worshiped as a god and unknowingly becoming powerful because of their faith
>>46380447
It could simply be long-living. I'm not entirely comfortable with the idea of magic happening 'spontaneously', like collective faith changing the world unwittingly. I think magic should be deliberate, and what we have on magic right now seems to imply a degree of skill is necessary even for small effects.
>>46379364
Maybe in some parts their ritual involves a play, re-enacting the life and times of the Horn and the Shell. In some other parts a ritualized duel is had, a fighter representing the Horn and another representing the Shell - the purpose of the duel is to divine which is in favor of the upcoming season/battle.
>>46382803
I like it. Perhaps there are different prayers based on different occasions. Parents could pray to the Mother for assistance in rearing their children. The Father could be called upon for battle or defending one's home.
No squashing today!
>>46383689
So would every ceremony involve a play of some sorts? I feel that they would need to be more rare, like for special occasions, or in preparation for upcoming events
>>46389813
I think that the plays would be for special feasts and ceremonies. The average point of worship could involve having a priest and priestess talk to the congregation about recent important events and lead them in prayer.
>>46326576
I like the idea. More customization is always a good thing. If well-built, this class system may work in other settings as well.
>>46390378
Feasts!
>The Sisterhood of the Matriarchal Devourer holds a large feast twice a month at their center of operations
>Like, Redwall esque feasts. It's amazing
>The Sister churches all also hold feasts at the same time as the Sisterhood, albeit slightly smaller in stature
>The feast is a way of giving thanks to the Great Matriarch, by indulging as she once did
>Male bugs serve the food to the females, then join in after they have begun to eat
>In the past, males were not allowed to attend, with some churches even threatingand consumption
>>46391155
I like it
>>46393067
Thanks Dallas. Is that every religion covered now?
>>46393665
I have no clue. Probably.
>>46393971
We could use more on the Sacred Shedding, I completely forgot about them
>>46394223
Aren't they a doomsday cult?
>>46394378
Yeah they're a doomsday cult, believe the world is a giant bug that sheds it exoskeleton to remake the world
>>46394378
Yes. Radicals think the end is nigh and preach about it much more loudly, and extremists try to make it come sooner.
Do we have anything for the Leeches and their Kind God?
Is this the thread where we talk about how much we want to fuck moths?
>>46399370
I'm sure there's a thread for that on /d/
So are bee cities literally gargantuan hives or do they build actual structures?
Also, I was considering drawing a bee warrior tonight. How fuzzy should I go?
>>46400756
I dont know how a bee city would actually look, that's a good question.
Make the bee fuzzy though. Very fuzzy
>>46402620
I dunno. Too much fuzz would be a liability around pyromancers
>>46402620
The fuzz was to do with air currents wasn't it? So why would they retain the fuzz when they got big? Air currents would be much more stable and need less monitoring.
>>46403826
aesthetics
>>46403876
Bee aesthetic.
Alright, here's a Bee pyromancer, complete with hatchet for wrecking other bugs' shit.
Sorry it looks shit - I'm new to digital drawing and suck dick at it.
Moth necromancers when
>>46405399
Well the current fluff on magic specifies you can't 'bring back the dead' strictly speaking. The setting's Necromancy is actually animating the empty shells of dead bugs. Similar to raising skeletons, you could say.
>>46405496
Yes that sounds great let's do it please
>>46405399
We haven't talked about Death's Head moths at all, have we?
Should they have a separate culture or just be a subspecies in overall moth society? I wouldn't mind them being a separate cult of necromancers or assassins myself.
>>46405496
>>46405564
I still say Hollows should be the name of Liches instead of the rank and file unless we can come up with something appropriate for Lich
>>46406061
They'd need a different name since a Skull wouldn't have much meaning in a world where humans don't exist at all
>>46405564
Then allow me.
>For years, the word 'Necromancy' has been associated with dangerous Cicada cults, crazed insects that spread decay and fungal infection. But more recently, this word can be heard among hushed whispers in Moth society. The best guarded secret the Moths keep is the Death's Head, a strange, spontaneous characteristic some Moths are born with very rarely. Regarded as taboo, the most superstitious moths often killed or abandoned these younglings upon birth, or upon hearing of the birth of one, rallied for their banishment or execution. Cities and more civilized settlements have been moving away from these practices, but the taboo remains, the Death's Head Moths often live alone and are victims of prejudice.
>These superstitions are not entirely unfounded, however. Death's Head Moths have a strange and unexplainable capability for Necromancy, innately skilled at animating empty shells. Thanks to their reduced prosecution, and wanting to move away from the connection to the Cicada cults, Death's Head Moths have been banding together in founding and trying to legitimize a new school of magic, the School of Necromancy. This new school is focused on death rituals, that call upon the memories of the deceased, and hexes that drain a foe's strength and weaken them. The ability to animate empty shells is not forgotten, but is often used as a last resort, seeing it as a disrespectful practice. Typically, the animated shells are connected to the memories of their last host. More than mindless slaves, these shells mimic their movements and act according to their habits.
>The fight against prejudice, coupled with the taboo practice of Necromancy makes life rough for the Death's Head Moths, but slowly they find their place in Moth society. Their professions range from street witches to historians to investigators, their knack for the dead and gone a great boon to their work.
>>46406088
That's true. The symbolism for skull equating to death wouldn't exist, since humans don't exist to give it that meaning here. It'd just be a weird marking on their backs unless other bugs can discern a face from it. It'd be entirely alien to them.
Maybe we just change the marking to match a more generic bug's "skull"? Or maybe some kind of ancient Trilobite or Ammonite rune or symbol? It'd actually be kind of funny if either of those races had a skull rune equating to death and these moths just happened to evolve this marking, and other bugs fear them because of the association.
>>46406179
This is also good.
>>46406237
Thank you. I don't know if a change of name would be necessary, in my mind, their knack for the dead and strange head marking both contribute to the name. The Skull, while not inherently symbolic of death, could acquire this meaning thanks to the moths themselves.
Also, found the full version of >>46405399's post if anyone cares.
>>46402620
>I dont know how a bee city would actually look, that's a good question.
Maybe something like a large collection of smaller hives, all grouped up around a much larger one for the royal family? With some extra, non-hive buildings either made by other bugs or built differently out of necessity.
Bees are generally very orderly animals by nature so I assume their cities would be as well. They'd probably plan every building out to the last detail, and position them perfectly to some unknown design. Maybe just the will of where their queen wants it to be? Maybe the bees just have an instinctual need to build things along a specific pattern they don't understand?
>>46408240
I think that Hexagons and the number six should have significant importance to them
>>46408433
Oh, absolutely. All of their rooms would definitely have a hexagonal shape, possibly their city squares, doors and possibly the buildings themselves.
>>46408433
Maybe Bees are slightly racist towards races that have more legs, or even if someone loses a leg they are now looked down upon for ruining perfection
>>46402620
>>46408240
Now I'm picturing a bee hivecity on a plain. There's a single big hive that houses the queen and the 'royals' or 'elites', which is kind of similar to an arcology or a really big mall. Then you have six smaller subhives, these are mostly occupied with workers and soldiers. Between the subhives and the main hive there would be squares (or perhaps more aptly named: hexes) connected by roads. Then there could be the residential areas for the non-bees outside the six subhives, or if the city's big enough, twelve more subhives. Then, after the subhives and residential/commercial areas, would be the wall, six-sided with 30-degree angles on the trellises and fortifications. These are manned by the soldiers, with six gates allowing non-bee groundwalkers to enter, while fliers are escorted by bee soldiers to the guard towers at the six corners for inspection. Those who resist are usually netted, or if they're especially belligerent, blasted out of the sky using pyromancy and/or alchemically treated crossbow bolts by the soldiers manning the walls.
>>46409697
I feel like, even if they're not using their real-life wax architecture, they'd still be less 'sprawling city' and more 'large complex', expanding upwards rather than over land. After all, they're capable of flight, and building vertically is a lot more efficient. Not too blocky, not too high, rather a really really really large building. For the 'technology level' we work with, an arcology like you describe would be a large city by itself by anyone's standards, but I picture the whole thing being divided in floors, so the rest of your idea would work, moving upwards instead, and with a slightly lower scale.
>>46408433
I don't think hexagons should be too important, but it could be an exceedingly common architecture among hives and even buildings. If you've been to a hive, you've been to all of them, so to speak, as they're built similarly, organized similarly, etc. Even among different houses you could get the feeling you've been there before. Six walls, two floors at most, every house stuck next to each other, almost the same visually.
Having an obsession with hexagons and the number 6 paints them a bit too psychotic in my head.
>>46409398
For reasons like this, really. Something like this feels a bit forced to me, and I can't fault Celeste Murphy for it, really. It just takes a not-good idea and tries to expand it.
>>46409838
>Having an obsession with hexagons
I never said obsession. Just a natural inclination to it. It is naturally structurally sound and works with their aesthetics.
Six-sided shields, hexagons in their design patterns, etc. Not an obsession, just a motif for them.
>expanding upwards rather than over land
Yeah this makes more sense for them and other flying species in general like the Wasps or Flies.
I could see further in the future of the canon of this setting the Flies develop a city of towers like Sharn from Eberron
>>46409898
That would make more sense. 'Significant importance' can mean any number of things, from the perfectly mundane, to the 'deifying numbers' ridiculousness. A motif is actually a great idea, sorry to have misunderstood you.
>>46410161
S'all good. I could've been more clear.
I had an idea for a Wasp fortress that was built hanging from a rather large cliff-face or at its edge and extending down. Would be a good defensive structure if the landscape is right.
Maybe the Wasp structures are smoother and resemble the real world Paper Wasp hives, the big ones that can overtake a house or tree if left alone long enough
I'm liking the whole Hexagon motif. Hexagon shields when?
>>46412044
Hexa-bucklers for a swashbuckling pirate bee
>>46406179
This should be added to the google doc.
Also, >>46406088 May I suggest that the human-like skull pattern on the back of a death's head moth be some ancient, unknown symbol to the bugs, associated with otherworldy entities representing death, rather than being seen as a literal skull? Either that, or have it resemble the head part of a bug's discarded exoskeleton. Either could work.
>>46414218
Perhaps moth necromancy could be called exomancy?
>>46414218
The necromancy parts are in the doc currently. I think the symbol could remain, and it would just be a strange symbol that marks a death head moth as a death head moth.
They are still moths with a symbol on their head that like death, so the name fits
>>46414318
Anything to do with moths with the peculiar death's head characteristic exhibiting necromantic powers though? I didn't find anything like >>46406179's post.
>>46414451
This post >>46406179 is in the doc word for word currently, under the Moth race section
>>46401876
Have we done anything with bats yet? I imagine they're absolutely fucking terrifying to the average bug since "giant flying monster that attacks silently at night" is fucking terrifying period.
>>46364039
>ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED?
>>46414499
Bats would be part of the "behemoth" category of monsters. Giant ass monsters that always bring massive destruction in their wake.
These include things like bit lizards, ant-eaters, birds, bats, etc
>>46414483
Awesome
>>46410207
That sounds super cool. I think the smoothness of the structure would make it look intimidating. I like the wasps having their own architecture of sorts
>>46417241
Defensively it would mean invaders would have a harder time climbing it if they can't fly
>>46410207
That'd be pretty cool, especially since they're natural flyers and can stage attacks and defend themselves easier from that vantage point.
Speaking of flyers - which bugs can fly and which can't?
>>46421171
Hornets, Bees, Wasps, certain Beetles, Flies, Mantises and a couple of more.
>>46421171
Pretty much all bugs with wings
>>46421171
>>46421272
>>46421369
Some of the heavier beetles like the Stag and Rhino are probably are too heavy because of their heavy carapaces and their wings are becoming vestigial. Or they can't do much more than slow their falls anymore.
The different races would likely have differing skills of flight with Flies, Hornets, Bees and Butterflies at the top while mantis, beetles, grasshoppers and locusts probably can only fly short distances or glide
>>46421454
What if the larger beetles could do a kind of war stomp ability where they unfurl their wings and do a short burst of flaps that create a wind gust to knock enemies back or stun them for a bit?
>>46421600
I really like this. In dry and sandy areas it would literally be like the pokemon move Sand-Attack
>>46421171
I think >>46421454 has a good point. While the bugs are closer to bugs than people, some of their more wild aspects like flying would be a little different.
I would imagine that races like bees, hornets and most of the flies would be super comfortable with flight as standard means of transportation given their agility whereas the larger species like beetles, locusts and grasshoppers might now find flight harder or impossible too so are stuck with them as vestigial remnants that might just be used for something like >>46421600 suggested
>>46409697
>>46409838
>>46410207
I'm really liking the stuff on structures. Seeing as bees, ants and termites seem to be the more industrious of builders (and hexagons are really good intrinsic structures in general) the concept may have spread worldwide so most large structures might have a similar spin to it. I mean, bees ants and termites most certainly share ideas when it comes to building structures so might have come to some congruent standards where those races co-inhabit. I could imagine a typical 'city' being a termite-like spire, ringed with a lattice of vertical honeycomb structures and hexagonal defensive wall structures with the interior being a dense and compact metropolis of varying cultures
>>46422521
I support these
Also, i'm noticing a term clash when it comes to wasps and hornets. Having the very similar wasps and hornets as separate races might further add to confusion, so would mashing the two together (in the same way beetles and flies have been) work?
>>46424442
That's how I had been referring to them. Could be a regional thing for them to be called Wasps or Hornets.
>>46424472
For clarity might using some of the latin terms work for referring to general races as a whole? e.g
The bee race and their derivations become The Apis, hornet types become The Vespidae etc
Just an idea throwing out for referential purposes
>>46424592
I'm down with that I suppose
