Who's the shittiest planeswalker, both as a card and as a character?
>>46319249
Tibalt, really no contest.
>>46319249
T I B A L T
I
B
A
L
T
![tibalt-the-fiend-blooded[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/ZAG1tIv.png "tibalt-the-fiend-blooded[1].png")
>>46319282
>>46319277
Someone printed this card and went 'Yeah okay this is good let's print this as a mythic rare'
just remember that whenever you have a bad idea.
Xenaghost
(Because he's ded)
I hope Eldritch Moon gives us a playable Tibalt that works well with Madness.
Not that Tibalt is a great character by any means, but it'd be funny if the Jacetice League had a recurring villain who was an edgy teenager instead of a multiversal threat.
>>46320541
I now want Tibalt to be MtG's Riddler
>>46319264
>Bolas' top lieutenants are are dragoncuck and a robocuck
hrm
>>46321128
>Bolas means "balls" in spanish
>>46320541
Eldritch Moon probably only has Liliana and Tamiyo in it.
>>46319311
Does...Does he ever actually get to use his abilities?
>>46323479
Yes. Opponents will let you + 1 because it's terrible and pity you because as a red you are playing random cardswap
>>46319311
He gets better with Madness... not much better, but atleast his +1 isn't as shitty.
>>46319249
As a character, Koth, Nissa and Kiora are all enormous assholes.
As a card, Tibalt, as usual.
>tfw everyone bullies tibalt
h-he isn't such a bad guy
>>46327311
What's Koth's problem?
And Kiora is only as much of an asshole as any of the other "neutral" planeswalkers. She's never supposed to be nice.
>>46329209
Koth is really just a jerk. I didn't read the scars book, but he convinced venser to come to mirrodin by encasing his head in stone so he had to planeswalk or suffocate.
>>46329209
>What's Koth's problem?
He's written really badly. In the webcomics he's a short-sighted hothead who encases Venser's head with stone because he doesn't instantly agree to drop everything and go to Mirrodin.
This led to Venser, Koth and Elspeth all being contaminated by the oil and unable to leave and bring reinforcements.
They wandered around for a while, with no idea what to do, fighting stupid horrors while Koth was a racist - make Mirrodin great again, and throw out all the fleshlings - to them both.
To some degree, trauma could excuse him - he returned home to find his mother being worn as a skinsuit by what grew inside her. "Come son, let us go into the kitchen and eat your father - he's almost cooked" - but the book handled it with its typical nuance and ignored it afterwards.
Anyway, "extremely stupid hotheaded bigot" about sums him up. The book terrible though - Elspeth is a mentally damaged berserker riddled with guilt over collaborating with Phyrexians (only escaping by sewing herself into a corpse and waiting days until they noticed it was dead and threw it into a sewer), Venser is a drug addict dying of teleportitis, Melira is there for the majority of the book and speaks maybe four times... and so on.
>>46327311
Tibalt is my card choice.
As far as personality, you hit the nail on the head as far as assholes. But I like some of those assholes. Nissa is a uniquely racist MC for such a safe story (until the retcon) and Koth was like, "Save my home with me or die, your choice." And I like Kiora as conman.
You missed Sorin though. He's a thorough cunt. And Liliana is just kind of evil.
>>46329176
Tibalt, no one loves you. Pls go.
>>46329367
every planeswalker but tibalr has some charm in their personality. tibalt is just "i like to hurt things because i'm a sociopath weeee!". he's a terrible character and card.elspeth is a close second though
Garruk - he wasn't very interesting before, but now that he's "embraced his curse" and is a "real monster", he's just an animal waiting to be put down.
>>46329396
I like Tihbalt, he's wqay cooler than that loser Sorin. He can't even get keep his daughter from getting corrupted what a lameo
>>46329412
at least elspeth did something before the Sun shined where it shouldn't have
I find it amusing that Jace is not in the discussion despite the hatred he engenders.
To be fair, Jace's problem is over exposure, not necessarily what he's like.
>>46331808
I don't mind Jace - in the fiction he's really not that bad.
Like you say, too much exposure and card flavor text that practically defines the annoying parts of blue.
>>46331674
only just barely. her character was defined by failure and running away from failure. she didn't accomplish shit until she got to theros, and even then she was a fucking martyr even before she actually got killed.
>>46320690
>Not wanting him to be Mtg's Snidley Whiplash
>Not wanting him to grow a moustache for the sake of twirling it every time he causes a minor inconvenience
>>46331808
This.
Jace would be alright if he wasn't everywhere.
>>46333415
I don't pay much attention to the new lore but if Jace is the living guildpack then why does the immediately leave Ravnica? Isn't he supposed to mediate the guilds or something?
>>46333490
He got bored of that, so he fucked off.
>>46333490
yes, but since he's a living guildpact there's a lot of scheduling and audiences and being a figurehead as much as actual power. he took about a day before buggering off to zendikar to get stuff in order, which probably involved cancelling his appointments and telling whatever assistants he has to tell all the guilds that he's busy.
it probably won't hold for long, so how long he's spending superheroing around zendikar and innistrad is really important for the integrity of ravnica.
>>46333553
I hope that comes up later than because the oldwalkers were literal world creating gods detached from the real world and they had more interesting character development and consequences for their actions than anything involving the neowalkers. The Innistrad drama involving Sorin and Nahiri has potential but even that is about stuff they did when they were oldwalkers. But luckily for us Jace has shown up to save the day so we don't have to bother with any interesting local characters because that would be way to much work to write
>>46333518
>Jace, no sense of right or wrong
remember when TCG player was charging 50$ for this shit
Sorin is the most boring, pointless character.
He's always just...there, sorta hanging out on the plane without doing ANYTHING.
The only accomplishments he has are creating Avacyn and now, apparently, killing Avacyn.
>>46319311
Could someone explain why this is the case? I've never played Magic and his abilities seem pretty effective.
>>46319249
WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU POSTING BEST GRUUL?
>>46333853
>+1 forces a discard AT RANDOM this is the biggest strike against it, otherwise it'd be pretty good
>-4 can't be used until you have random discarded at least twice, also relies on your opponent's hand size, which you have little direct control over, to be effective
>-6 this is fine, but rarely are planeswalkers judged on their most expensive ability, and again you have to randomly pitch at least four turns in a row to even see this.
really his first ability is so bad, and required to even use his other abilities that it brings the whole card down.
>>46333490
Gideon hit him with the "charismatic leader, bringing a plea to save a dying world" card.
As to him traipsing around Innistrad... well, that's a bit less defensible.
Still though - it's a good thing. While being the Living Guildpact, he sent a bunch of planeswalkers after Garruk and got them all killed.
So perhaps it's best that he doesn't delegate everything...
>>46333683
>But luckily for us Jace has shown up to save the day so we don't have to bother with any interesting local characters because that would be way to much work to write
I'm sick to shit of this contrarian "abloo bloo everything sucks" attitude that just lashes out at the lore without bothering to make sense of its complaints. Jace has done fuck-all so far on Innistrad other than "investigating," and even when it comes to that Tamiyo has beat him to the punch already. He's done fuck all in this block. Jace IS overexposed, and some of his flavortext IS annoying, but at least as of yet he has NOT played the part of "saving the day" on this block, so can you save your complaints about things until they actually fucking happen?
I mean, the thing is they actually have been writing Sorin and Nahiri. Why would they have brought back Nahiri in the first place if they thought her plot would be "too much work to write"? Can we give the writers at least enough credit to assume they can fog a mirror?
Christ. You might as well just start bitching about how stupid the writers are for having Jace beat Bolas by making a single snarky comment in the block after SOI. You're a parody of yourself.
>>46334178
I wasn't even bitching about Nahiri I said that could be interesting. I was bitching about the lack of interesting or developed local characters like Khamal or Argus Kos or Toshiro in favor of bland mascot characters like Jace or Lilliana just showing up everywhere to fix everything. Sure Innistrad had Thalia but she didn't really get much devlopment and it was Lilliana who had her open the Helavault because she needed to further her story. They still make interesting worlds its just now all they are is back drops to firther the latest bit of neowalker drama. There are still potentially interesting characters but nothing they do seems to matter because we have to focus on why whatever emotion the 4th Sorin card is or what dumb justification they give for just making another boring Jace card instead of something interesting. The game is still great and the new cards are still fun its just now the story is just hollow marketing fodder because new players are considered to stupid for anything else which makes me sad.
>>46333853
literally 2 words turn the card from "playable, maybe even good" to "complete and absolute shit"
>at random.
Shittiest written character: probably Jace or Elspeth
Shittiest in-universe: Nicol Bolas has literally killed millions.
Shittiest card: the usual no-contest Tibalt.
Does anybody know how the players fit into mtg lore?
We are apparently planeswalkers but how are we able to summon other planeswalkers to do our bidding? Are we just more powerful and influential than characters like nicol bolas?
>>46334716
Whose killed more?
Bolas or Yawgmoth?
>>46334756
Yawgmoth, but he is both not a planeswalker and not alive.
>>46334756
Yawg's body count was in the tens of thousands BEFORE he became a God
>>46334756
Yawg, I think Bolas has been around longer but he mostly kept to himself up until he lost his spark. Yawgmoth was wiping out entire civilizations and murdering and and oldwalker before he even became a god, and then he got really crazy.
>>46334736
you are basically calling for help not summoning them whole cloth. they show up and give you some support, but bugger off if shit goes south. they have loyalty counters rather than health counters because they don't actually die, they just decide your shit is your problem if they take one to many sharp blows to the head.
>>46333683
Take off your rose tinted glasses, oldster. The old fluff was even shittier than it is today, you can blame corperate for that.
>>46334455
Hey, Lavinia is awesome. Geralf is awesome. Noyan Darr is awesome. The Khans were cool.
Like, they still have those.
>>46334873
no bolas was conquering planes and shit, he just spent a nonspecific number of eons pseudo-not-quite-dead until timespiral so there was a huge stretch of him doing fuckall.
>>46334904
Much of his early history was him fighting the other Elder Dragons.
>>46334904
I'm not familiar with the Bolas lore because it came post Neowalkers which is when i stopped caring. What kind of conquering was it? Not trying to start a character dick measuring contest I'm just interesting in what he did before he started focusing on getting his spark back.
>>46333813
>only accomplishments
The Eldrazi, dude.
>>46335007
the legends series emperor's <thing> is the story of tetsuo umezawa and how he went from being the champion of the madaran emperor, to his enemy and eventually his slayer after finding out the emperor was bolas. bolas had at least one empire on dominaria and was basically just camping on powerful sources of black, blue, and red mana. he literally raised an army and waged war to conquer the lands that lay before him.
>>46334981
also this, at the start of time all the dragons had a dick measuring contest and long story short bolas won.
>>46335087
Ok so even his old lore was him looking for ways to be powerful. I still Prefer Yawgmoth but its cool to see he did stuff other than sit in a cave and be an old ass dragon.
>>46332842
She's the reason there's still a Bant, if she wasn't there they would have lost to Esper, and while Grixis was invading everyone was waiting for Asha to show up if Elspeth hadn't made everyone indestructible and cast wrath. Alara would have fallen apart after Ajani defeated Bolas.
>>46335477
>if Elspeth hadn't made everyone indestructible and cast wrath. Alara would have fallen apart after Ajani defeated Bolas.
you what?
Since you guys are good with the lore, can anyone hook me up on what the fuck happened after ulamog got jammed in an hedron circle? Kozi poped and... then what? I cant find a proper wiki with large descriptions of events.
>>46335590
Ok, during the battle against Grixis Elspeth made the armies of Bant indestructible and pretty much casted wrath of god.
And if Grixis wasn't stopped in Bant they would have destroyed the wartorn Naya and Jund.
>>46335643
The beat Kozi with the power of friendship
>>46335643
Ob came in, hijacked the alignment to repower his spark, and thus freed Ulamog.
He then decided to fuck things over even MORE and called Kozilek up from the depths of the plane. Kiora attempted to take on Kozilek, riding Lorthos the TIdemaker. Kozilek bisected Lorthos like he wasn't there and proceeded to smash Sea Gate.
Ob then decided to take Nissa, Jace, and Gideon and torture the fuck out of them, because he could. And he almost managed to succeed, but Chandra came in and started setting things on fire and he had to fuck off to elsewhere.
They leave, swear an oath to protect everything, and come up with a plan - since binding isn't on the table anymore because that failed, and they can't let the Eldrazi leave, they're going to try to kill the things, using something Jace heard Ugin saying - that they're like a hand reaching into a pond, the rest outside - and dragging the rest of the Titans' forms into the plane, figuring that the plane's doomed if they fail ANYWAYS.
So they do that, with Gideon and the various soldiers being a massive distraction while Jace and Nissa drag the Titans down, and Chandra burns shit because Chandra. They try overstuffing them, but that doesn't work - it's fucking the plane over faster than it's harming the Eldrazi - so instead Nissa channels all the mana of Zendikar into Chandra, who uses it to burn the shit out of the now fully-manifested Titans, killing them.
>>46335643
>>46335706
>Ulamog inna hedron circle
>suddenly ob nixilis with hedron keystone
>fuck this noise, I'ma be a dick because fuck zendikar. "Rise."
>hedron circle fucked, suddenly kozilek!
>lorthos btfo
>nissa un eldrazi timetrap
>jace btfo
>gideon face down in four inches of dirty water
>ob nixilis being a gloating badguy because he can
>chandra feels the feely feels
>finds ob
>oh shit fire girl isn't stronger than a demon
>but then he tells her what to do, so she burns his eldrazi pets and planeswalker superfriends all join forces
>Ob nopes the fuck out
>zendikar is maximum fucked
>Then they take the Oath of the Gatewatch
>Jace has most of a plan
>use leylines to pull eldrazi fully into the plane, drain them to nothinf
>nissa can do this
>ulamog and kozilek am become the sky
>nissa can't do this
>chandra's all like "put me in coach! I can set them on fire"
>jace is like "no you'll ruin everything!"
>nissa's like "oh got I feel my brain leaking out of my nose!"
>nissa hands over the leylines to chandra
>the eldrazi am become fire
>the day is saved
>zendikar is a plane-sized scab
>ugin shows up afterward and is basically the stereotypical police chief from the buddy cop movies asking why the team of young upstarts wrecked three blocks while taking down the mafia
>hey nissa, I need you to tell me everything you know about sorin markov
>>46336340
>>46336400
Thanks, man bringing them whole sounds like an absolute madman plan. Kind of sad they died
>>46333490
jace is basically a super powered mage that enjoys adventuring forced into a white collar job that he hates but is required to do
he's pretty much just procrastinating isperia's mountain of paperwork
>>46336400
I know you were making fun, but this sounds pretty great.
>>46336340
Don't forget Emrakul is still missing. I'm in the "shes either on Innistrad or trying to come to Innistrad or somehow Innistrad's moon" camp. Because of all the Lovecraft shit going on and the next set being called 'Eldritch Moon".
>>46336400
Lmao at the ugin cop thing
>>46333880
Even the izzet walker is better and he a shit
>>46334798
>>46334756
So, was the story where Karona met with yawgmoth just completely retconned or do people just not know about it?
>>46340664
I'm pretty sure Yawg was long dead before Karona existed
>>46340664
Retconned.
>>46340664
Retconned to be a hallucination, because the guy who wrote that did not actually have the authority to bring Yawgmoth back - something Wizards Did Not Want Happening At All.
All the 'personifications of mana' Karona saw were hallucinations caused from her being completely batshit insane, in fact.
>tfw they're changing walker colors so that they can have a walker of every color combination in the Justice League
>eventually all walkers will just be "good guys" or "bad guys"
This is somehow either Maro or NWO's fault.
>>46341533
Who is getting changed?
>>46341362
Well shit.I just want Phyrexia to be a thing again
>>46342107
They are a thing there just stuck on New Phyrexia until they unify and figure out about other planes.They have 2 phases, super subtle background manipulators and full on invasion.
>>46342107
There are still remnants of Old Phyrexia about. Many planes were conquered in the name of the Lord of the Wastes - they just haven't been focused on.
We know OF one, though - Elspeth's home plane.
Where she grew up in an asylum.
For insane Phyrexians, as one of their playtoys.
Phyrexia itself, though, and the Father of Machines, are both gone now. An artificial plane fades without its master, and the master was slain. Plus, you know, soul bombs, a Pernicious Deed, etc.
>>46341533
It's MaRo's, there was a post on Blogatog calling the Gatewatch the Jacetice League and he got all butthurt
>>46342224
Wow... I really havent given enough of a shit about Elspeth's backstory. If what >>46329328 says is legit, thats some Heavy Metal shit right there.
>>46342334
IIRC, everything up to the last bit. She DIDN'T escape - or if she did, they caught up with her and went to kill her. That's when her spark went off and shunted her to Theros.
She has PTSD out the ass, just wants to live somewhere nice where people don't backstab each other constantly, but keeps getting called on to be a hero.
And every time she does it, tries her best, but her best isn't enough. Except the one time it IS enough and it's TOO MUCH so Heliod shanks her for doing the job he told her to do. Because he's a douche.
>>46342449
Elspeth had a hard life
>>46342449
Daww
;_:
![jou_trailer_shot_by_igorkieryluk-d7emvu4[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/McI1eUf.jpg "jou_trailer_shot_by_igorkieryluk-d7emvu4[1].jpg")
>>46342480
>>46342510
>>46342544
Who'd have thought that little girl would be a champion in the Dominarian fighting pits.
>>46342107
Don't worry m8, the third Ravnican boogaloo will have your favorite overlords in it. Based Ilromov will herald their arrival.
>No more wretched fate is there than to waste away. If you are slain, your ghost may at least avenge itself upon your killer. But what release is there for one slain by Time?-Ilromov, traveling storytellerALL WILL BE ONE
>>46341891
Ajani (twice)
Sorin
Nahiri
Garruk
Sarkhan
Narset
On top of that, all new walkers seem to be two colors. Kiora, Domri, Ashiok, etc.
>>46342744
But Ajani is just waiting to go full Naya.
>>46342633
>both Ravnica block have several cards mentioning the Guildless getting sick of the Guilds and revolting
>fucking nothing happens
I wish they'd quit bringing it up if they aren't going to do anything with it.
>>46342744
If that were the case, then both Domri and Arlinn wouldn't be GR. And Ob would have had a second color, we'd have an actual RB walker, and Liliana wouldn't have a card IN SHADOWS that says quite clearly 'fuck off jace'
What you are seeing is them fulfilling their customer's desires to have a lot of different planeswalker characters and them wanting to differentiate them. And said customers WANTING walkers for every color combination - before RTR Maro's blog was full of questions about getting UR, UG, and GW walkers because there weren't any, after it was about UW because there wasn't a living one.
>>46341362
Which is a shame, because Serra is best planeswalker.
>>46342834
>Return to Ravnica rode the hype of being the first RTR set.
>Dragon's Maze was the actual story set of the RTR block.
They needed a filler set for when the hype died down so the Gateless were a thing in Gatecrash.
