How do they compare to modern Scions and Kasrkin?
statwise I don't know, lorewise Scions are better
I really like the diving suit armor.
>>46280721
They are statwise identical to Scions, and lorewise are rough equivalents when it comes to combat prowess, though Scions also posses a strong spiritual and religious indoctrination that makes them much more resistant to Chaos corruption, which the Solar Auxilia had a serious problem with in the HH.
Auxilia also had some more esoteric and potent weapons (like the Volkite pictured) but Scions have better all-around gear.
>>46282039
Stat-wise scions are better shots
>>46282039
So, Scions are better trained and I doctrinated, auxiliaries were better equipped
Makes sense, Horus Heresy etc.
![latest[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/EKeMQct.jpg "latest[1].jpg")
>>46280721
>>46282039
>>46282859
The Solar Auxilia also had an entirely different approach to combat and training than the Scions.
While the Tempestus are elite special forces drawn from across the Imperium and trained/indoctrinated through the Schola Progenum, the Auxilia are a conventional armed force trained en-mass from a single world or sector. They're pretty much the 'gold standard' regulars of the Imperial Army, to be differentiated from the Imperial Militia and Cults who were irregular formations in both senses of the word.
Doctrine-wise, the Scions emphasize surgical strikes and fast-movement. The Auxilia, on the other hand, operates more like the IG eventually would, with a focus on large bodies of infantry supported by dead killy tanks and artillery.
Ditto for deployment. While the books show Auxilia formations being deployed as large, cohesive formations and even being used as garrisons, the Scions are parcelled out in small detachments across the galaxy , to then be used as a *compliment* to an army rather than its bulk.
>>46282978
Man I really like that armor tho
I want a guardsman force like that.
>>46283029
Thinking about using some as allies for my Mechanicum. They make pretty solid meatbags for my bigger units.
>>46283474
Fuck that, can you take their transports?
>>46283744
Yeah, can't put my guys in them though.
>>46283825
What
Different combat doctrines and purposes
Solar Auxilia were used on warzones where the Imperial Army would have a hard time, but still operated almost the same as them.
Regimental Storm Troopers (Kasrkin, Krieg Grenadiers) are exceptional soldiers that get selected for additional training and then act as elite support squads alongside their regiment or sometimes special operations behind enemy lines.
Tempestus Scions are recruited from eveywhere and operate as individual squads loaned to whoever needs them, specializing almost exclusively in special operations behind enemy lines.
>>46280721
I miss the older stormies, to be honest. I feel like the scions would be a lot cooler if they were less Astartes-lite and more the combination of Navy SEAL and Napoleonic Grenadier that the older versions felt like to me.
>>46283029
20 man squad for $70, iirc. About the same price you'd pay for 2 boxes of guardsmen.
>>46285681
I honestly prefer the new one. They feel more fitting for the Imperium with the breastplates especially.
>>46280721
I would buy it, but i just don't like those rund bits around their joints.
Seriously. How do those knee joints flex if there is a bolted joint there.
![26413_sm-2nd%20Edition,%20Artwork,%20Beret,%20Copyright%20Games%20Workshop,%20Imperial%20Guard,%20Retro%20Review,%20Storm%20Troopers[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/Bg3nI7G.jpg "26413_sm-2nd%20Edition,%20Artwork,%20Beret,%20Copyright%20Games%20Workshop,%20Imperial%20Guard,%20Retro%20Review,%20Storm%20Troopers[1].jpg")
>>46285681
Same here.
And as much as I love berets and appreciate the reference to 2nd ed. stormies, it's a type of headgear that don't really mix well with oversized cuirasses IMO.
Bah, the imperium is a big place, there is enough room for everyone.
Their fluff is hilariously bad, though. Only 10.000 scions means one scion for 100 Space marines ; There are as many scions as there are SM captains in the galaxy. Truly, they must change the fate of the Galaxy.
>>46285850
They recruit only people with very long calves ?
>>46281779
Too bad the figures are stupidly expensive. They'd make great navy boarding crews or rogue trader's retinue.
I take it that the Solar Aux had better tech but inferior training.
>>46282039
>cool action pose
>mace in one hand, ready to bash some heads
>medical device in other for... something something revenge?
Kasrkin > Scions
>>46288904
Lets not mix grenadiers and stormies.
>>46286214
China, my friend. China.
>>46286139
... Only 10,000 scions? What the utter fuck? Even a million SMs isn't a lot for a galaxy of quadrillions.
>>46288939
I think anon's confusing a very old fluff piece in which stormies were only a single 10,000 strong regiment. Scions have several regiments all over the galaxy.
>>46285850
HE QUESTIONS THE EMPEROR'S GRAND DESIGN! HERETIC!
>>46288968
Yeah, it's right up there with the what, only 100,000 Sororitas in the galaxy in terms of misunderstood fluff pieces.
>all that ridiculous lore on Storm Trooper training and indoctrination
>they're still inferior to Sisters of Battle and Eldar Guardians fluff-wise
>>46284066
He's saying he can't put Mechanicum units in a an Auxilia transport because they are different factions.
>>46289098
>Eldar Guardians
Eldar Guardians are way too shitty for their own lore. They are several hundred years old at least and most of them probably were part of one or two aspect shrines at one point or the other.
>>46289274
>stats equal to an aspect warrior
>shitty
Aspect warriors must be shitty as fuck then. I'd say they're way too good for a bunch of civilians. Even if you did do some military service at some point doesn't mean you've kept up your skills.
>>46289505
>Some military service
An eldar path is not comparable to doing a few years of military service, and it's not something they just forget, it's something that they add to their other skills.
They're "civilian" in the same sense as a former special forces guy is a civilian, one that doesn't forget, doesn't get out of shape and doesn't get old.
>>46289505
>Even if you did do some military service at some point doesn't mean you've kept up your skills.
anon, it is eldar we're talking about.
>>46289707
>>46289785
I'd be delighted to see the pieces of fluff that go into detail how Eldar guardians are as skilled as any aspect warrior in combat, and how their training becomes hard coded into them and they'll never get rusty at anything ever and don't ever have to keep training or honing their skills to keep up.
Doesn't really jive with them having to train for centuries to get truly good at something. Surely you just need to do it good once and you know forever how to do it good.
>>46282039
Well OP pic they actually had better Armor than Scions what with a 4+ rerellable against blast. Also VOLKALITES AS PRIMARY
>>46280721
>>46281671
>>46282039
>>46282433
What the hell are "scions"? Toyotas?
They're fucking STORMTROOPERS.
>>46289874
>Astra Miliwhatnow?
>>46289098
I wouldn't say they are inferior fluff-wise.
According to their codex they are the best human soldiers in the imperium and one story which was infamous among the Eldar community was the one which stated a small strike force of scions killed wave after wave of guardians.
Rule-wise they are shit though.
>>46280721
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KRFcCNrn4o
>>46290629
Guardians are shit though
Like how Eldar fans blow a gasket when Harlequins get stomped by Lychguards
>>46289098
>inferior to Sisters of Battle
now you're just making stuff up
>and Eldar Guardians
but we have fluff of stormtroopers out-predicting eldar and killing aspect warriors
>>46289874
>>46290070
Nah, you're thinking of Opel.
>>46290709
To be fair, they should be inferior to the almost universally biologically superior Eldar with more advanced technology and more combat experience. I strongly dislike the Eldar but can admit that they're kinda insane in fluff, Aspect Warriors in particular should, by all rights be able to go toe-to-toe with Tactical Marines.
>>46289707
>it's not something they just forget, it's something that they add to their other skills.
War masks explicitly contain those memories and skills so they don't go fucking nut butters thanks to the eldar psyche.
That is LITERALLY the point of the path system. They don't carry their baggage on other paths.
>>46290756
Oh absolutely. But scions have the gear and the training to at least go up against the bigger threats.
I mean, if you can shoot a genestealer, you're good to shoot pretty much any kind of eldar.
>>46290756
>Aspect Warriors in particular should, by all rights be able to go toe-to-toe with Tactical Marines
Considering that Astartes are biologically superior to Eldar and have the benefit of power armor no.
>>46290756
Nothing is objectively better at everything all the time. Sometimes even a hardened vet with all the skills dies to a bullet from an untrained conscript.
>>46290807
>Biologically superior to Eldar
Eldar are faster, more intelligent, have better natural reflexes by a long shot, far more sensitive and capable sensory organs, are utilizing more advanced materials than the Marines in their equipment, are all Psykers who utilize their powers to bolster their combat capabilities and likely have a similar combat experience.
So no.
So faction specific super-elites
Eldar as a whole race have Harlequins
IG have Stormies
Space Marines have Honour Guard and to a lesser extent Deathwatch
Necrons have Lychguard and Preatorians
>>46290829
Are Eldar actually smarter? I know their technology is better but I thought that was linked to them being an older race.
>>46290829
>this is what Eldarboo actually believe
DeathleaperFangirl pls go
>>46290881
Nah, they actually have a far better processing power than Humans and a better memory, so certain aspects of their intelligence quota are on average just much higher. Doesn't equate to too much in combat, mind you, but it helps a bit.
>>46290863
>not mentioning terminators
man, they're the baseline super-elite
>>46290909
>than Humans
good thing marines are post-humans then
>>46280721
I don't know what these guys are, but they look excellent. Comparable to Fire Warriors in terms of 40k visual design.
>>46290921
Marines do have a better memory than Humans could by a long shot, but they don't seem to have that much difference in actual processing power, Eldar are still likely naturally smarter.
>>46290937
>Eldar are still likely naturally smarter.
any actual proof of that?
>>46290967
Admittedly, no, but the actual augmentations of the Adeptus Astartes do very little to their brain structures from what we know, and most of their enhanced mental capabilities are a result of hypno-indoctrination. Meanwhile the Eldar possess a naturally superior brain and also practice mental improvement techniques throughout their entire lives. I know I'm trying to apply science to 40k here, which is silly, but there's no reason to believe they're not smarter.
>>46290937
>but they don't seem to have that much difference in actual processing power
The fact that they can actually use some of the more advanced power armor marks disputes that assumption.
Also I'd like to contest your claim of the inherently superior eldar sensory organs. Psychic abilities aside, there's nothing to really imply eldar are better than marines, who have superior taste, smell and hearing. It's why the eldar have to rely on advanced tech and psychic abilities to ambush them, rather than an innate physical superiority.
>>46290996
If Eldar are so smart, why are they almost dead?
>>46290967
>any actual proof of that?
Nope. Eldar are not super human in intellect.
Marines are.
>>46290996
its more like the eldar use their more attuned senses especially psychic ones better.
>>46291037
Because cuckolding is the intellectual's fetish.
>>46291022
While true that they do often augment their stealth with tech and psychic powers, the Marines do possess strong technological devices to enhance their own detection capabilities. I'd call bullshit if any but the most advanced Eldar assassins, or virtually anyone could sneak up on armoured Astartes with biology alone.
As for superior sensory organs, while I can't remember any direct sources there are lots of references dotted here and there about Eldar hearing, smelling or seeing hostile threats from a great distance away, they're generally portrayed as being incredibly perceptive.
>>46291060
>>46291068
I'd argue that Eldar do possess a superhuman intellect, enough to classify them as low-end geniuses on average by today's standards, merely due to how much information they can process from their senses and almost see things in "slow motion."
>>46291037
Slaanesh and the fact that they're easily turned into emotional wrecks when put under the right kinds of pressure, it's the main weakness Eldar have over Humans.
>>46291103
God dammit, I did not expect that.
>>46291107
>I'd argue that Eldar do possess a superhuman intellect
Nah, they've never been described as such.
They have good reflexes, and that's it.
>>46291107
>there are lots of references dotted here and there about Eldar hearing, smelling or seeing hostile threats from a great distance away
which means little, since we already know marines have those abilities as well (and much better documented, since it's been a part of their basic fluff since rogue trader)
the only things that can really sneak up on marines are tyranids, which is why tyranids are so spooky in the fluff
>>46291125
"An Eldar's mind is incredibly complex. Their senses are extremely sharp, able to perceive incredible levels of detail. Their emotions can be so strong that a human's are merely pale shadows by comparison. They are extremely intelligent; their thought processes are much faster than a human's." - Lexicanum
Yes, I know this quote doesn't exactly prove much on its own, but I'm pretty sure it's a general consensus between the 40k fandom that Eldar are more intelligent than Humans by a stretch. Why wouldn't they be? In the meantime, I'm going to go look for some proper sources.
>>46291107
>I'd argue that Eldar do possess a superhuman intellect, enough to classify them as low-end geniuses on average by today's standards, merely due to how much information they can process from their senses and almost see things in "slow motion."
no it means their reflexes are much MUCH sharper than Johnny Cadian. Its like saying a bloodhound is a genius at sniffing
Necrons are by far the smartest race (at least Lychguard and above) to the point of referring to Eldar as primitive and dirty primates. Yet that proves nothing
>>46290937
>>46290967
>>46290996
>>46291022
y'all motherfuckers need Xenology
https://www.sendspace.com/file/v2fm45
educate yourselves heretics
>>46291295
Not that I think it matters, but Xenology isn't canon.
I'd say that the "baseline" for humans is lower than for other races. Or at least it should be.
To explain what I'm getting at, think of combat equivalencies in tiers.
Johnny Cadia, some IG scrub, is at the very bottom tier, as he is the most basic human warrior.
The next tier compromises the most basic warriors from other races (Guardians, Boyz, Necron Warriors, etc), which outclass unaugmented humans.
The modified post-human elite (space marines) carve out the next tier over those.
But then the elite equivalents for the other races (Aspect Warriors, Nobz, Immortals) in turn outclass Space Marines (or, again, they should).
My point is that humanity has to make twice as much effort just to stay afloat compared to the other races of the galaxy. Or that's what should be represented.
>>46291295
nigga looks toked
>>46291305
Why not? Its black library, has the warhams copyright, even has newcrons. Its an in universe perspective and hence open to being wrong, but is there some letter of notice that says 'hey nerds, this isn't cannon specifically. love GW's 40K cannon department.'?
>>46291342
I still don't get why nobs aren't T5.
They should be +1S+1T over boys. People might actually take them.
>>46291342
>Aspect Warriors
>Better than Marines
Scouts perhaps
>>46285681
I like the aesthetics of the Scions, because I think it fits 40k and the Imperium better than tacticool operators, but I dislike how their lore makes them sound like, "Space Marines, but dull," instead of a bunch of extremely badass normal guys.
The Scions codex makes it sound like they have absolutely no personality, which is boring. They seem to be incapable of holding any kind of conversation, which even Space Marines are capable of doing.
>>46289098
Sisters and Scions both come from the Schola Progenium, so it's not a stretch of the imagination to assume they'd be roughly on-par. The Sisters just get arguably better support because they have the rich-ass Ecclesiarchy at their backs.
>>46291477
Space Marines are so strong willed that they overcome the "cold quite emotionally scarred anti-social super soldier" trope and reforge their personalities.
>>46291477
they, along with the commissars have "heroic imperial soldier" personality, which makes all the regular joes fucking hate them
>>46291472
Once more, my point was that they SHOULD be superior. Even if it's just slightly edging them out.
The inheritors of many thousands of years of warrior tradition, trained to razor sharpness, and armed with alien technology so advanced it seems like magic.
Ought to be able to give your average tactical marine a run for his money.
>>46291549
>Once more, my point was that they SHOULD be superior.
No.
Eldar are by and large effete fops.
Marines are forged into weapons and spend their whole lives fighting or training to fight.
>>46291569
That's a reasonable explanation for marines to be superior to Guardians, but not Aspect Warriors.
The whole point of the Path of the Warrior is that they give themselves over to their training entirely, with no room for distraction whatsoever. Eldar were already genetically engineered to be elite warriors, and I'd imagine that the average Aspect Warrior has spent as much time training in their shrine as the average marine has been alive.
>>46291610
>The whole point of the Path of the Warrior is that they give themselves over to their training entirely
No. To do that is to become an Exarch.
Read Path of the Warrior, it is essentially going to karate class for your day job.
>I'd imagine that the average Aspect Warrior has spent as much time training in their shrine as the average marine has been alive.
Very doubtful.
>>46291216
If the Eldar are so intelligent than how come Necron technology is beyond them? They can only grasp its most basic concepts.
Eldar wankers pls go.
>>46291295
here is literally the only related fluff on eldar sensory abilities in xenology
y'all need to get an actual source to your claims
>>46291647
>Read Path of the Warrior, it is essentially going to karate class for your day job.
Except, mostly due to their mental qualities, Eldar take their day jobs extremely seriously and dedicate themselves to their duties to a drastic level. This is how the Craftworlds continue functioning, with specialists dedicating themselves to their jobs to keep them safe/running over occupying themselves.
>Very doubtful.
Overall? Probably, since Tactical Marines tend to hit the century mark. That being said, Eldar Aspect Warriors still have a pretty ridiculous amount of combat training and experience compared to most other parties in 40k.
I disagree with the other Anon in that Aspect Warriors should be better than Astartes, and would prefer that they only had a similar level of capability. Of course, certain Aspect Warriors by virtue of equipment and fighting styles are going to lose horribly to Marines, while some will rip them open like tin cans.
>>46291569
>Eldar are by and large effete fops.
Said nothing in the official fluff, ever.
Guardians should be better than guardsmen, because they have more experience and Eldar biology.
Aspect Warriors should be better than Guardians and on par with Marines in their specialized field, but weaker otherwise.
Exarchs should be on par with Marines with the option to upgrade them further.
>>46291610
nah, its eldar blokes going to war to suit their murderlust.
Then the faggot whose waifu left him missed out on that sweet striking scorpion pussy by wearing a suit.
>>46291682
Because the Nectrontyr are even more intelligent than Eldar, who are more intelligent than Humans. It's another case of 40k's obsessive "bigger fish," syndrome.
>>46291647
An Exarch has had their soul bound to their path, mostly as a result of the inherent psychic fuckery in Eldar technology.
The point of any Eldar Path is asceticism, to keep them from become distracted by trivial pleasures and focus the inborn Eldar habit of utter obsession on something productive.
>Doubtful
I don't see why. Your average Eldar is old as fuck, especially compared to a grunt marine.
>>46291708
>>46291718
These guys have the idea.
>>46291216
I'd say Eldar might be smarter, or at least use their intelligence in a different way than other races, but you're wrong in >>46290937 Marines are always described to use their posthuman brains, in addition to the helmet feed, to process impossible amounts of information in seconds. Like just glancing through space battle feeds is enough to completely understand and visualize what is happening in the battle, or calculating military information, like trajectories or enemy movement in an instant. Same goes for augmented humans in their specific fields. Like AdMech can process billions of tech information, Navy officers can understand their naval battles, Assassins calculate how to complete their mission down to every small detail, etc.
>>46291755
>An Exarch has had their soul bound to their path, mostly as a result of the inherent psychic fuckery in Eldar technology.
nah its because eldar are autists to the extreme. The MC gets so butthurt about a girl in path of the eldar that he becomes an exarch.
>>46291832
Just gonna get this one out of the way:
>BL
>>46291708
>Except, mostly due to their mental qualities, Eldar take their day jobs extremely seriously and dedicate themselves to their duties to a drastic level.
Not even close to what a Marine does. Marines don't have day jobs, their entire existence is consumed by war. Eldar operate very similar to a modern army, they train, they sometimes actually have to go out and fight, but they still have regular social lives.
>That being said, Eldar Aspect Warriors still have a pretty ridiculous amount of combat training and experience compared to most other parties in 40k.
Maybe, but we're talking about Marines here.
>>46291755
>An Exarch has had their soul bound to their path, mostly as a result of the inherent psychic fuckery in Eldar technology.
And a Marine is just as dedicated. This is even brought up in the Path books. Exarchs and Marines have been totally consumed by war, they have war masks that they cannot set aside any longer. Aspect Warriors do so easily and freely generally.
>I don't see why.
Eldar don't spend long on a warrior path because it is easy to be consumed by it. Exarches are the ones who will spend a bajillion years training, most Aspect Warriors are just regular Eldar at boot camp/karate class.
>>46291832
>Completely different race with very different psychological tendencies
>Comparing their thoughts to Humanity's
It's not autism, anon, it's called not being a Human. They're a bunch of smart, hyper-sensitive, emotional aliens.
>>46291755
It doesn't matter how old you are, or how experienced you think you are. Eldar actions are largely raiding parties done via opening the webway before doing their murderhoboing and running away.
Plus their war mask literally makes them into a different person so that they are in a killing frenzy all the fucking time.
Compare that to a guardsman vet. That nigga is going to pick up loads more experience because he is fighting and surviving all the time.
>>46291842
Still mad that the head of black library actively antagonizes anyone who questions BL canonicity.
>>46291842
what, the book was entertaining. and watching someone turn their inner frog into a murder machine is always fun.
>>46291755
Eldar warriors arguably don't have that much experience, because technically they use their War Masks to supress all experiences they lived through while fighting. But an Exarch should be on par with augmented Marine Captains, where fighting is almost completely intuitional.
>>46289274
But the lore is pretty explict that only the guys who lead them have been through an aspect shrine. The rest just get some rough training or some such.
>>46291037
Their emotions are fucking crazy, and their language is so complex that most other races can't even understand it.
It's like because of a superiority complex and some legitimate 'we don't wanna get nommed again' problems, they decided to be as unefficient as possible.
>>46288885
It's not a medical device. It's a Hotshot laspistol with a chainsaw bayonet.
>>46292014
If they were so smart, why didn't they realize they were fucking everything up beforehand?
>>46292014
Necrons can speak to them.
Eldar are primitive thugs.
>>46292046
A lot of them did. The ancestors of the Dark Eldar are the ones who fucked everything up, while the Craftworlders and Exotides packed and left before the Fall.
>>46292046
Ever done or said some really dumb shit because you really wanted to get laid?
Imagine your whole race feeling like that for thousands of years.
>>46292053
sexy primitive thugs
>>46292053
Says the race that couldn't keep it's shit together and picked a fight with a race of advanced psychic immortals to solve that and lost anyways.
Christ sakes, Necrons couldn't even be loyal to each other as a race until it was literally programmed into them.
>>46291931
Most of them are a couple of hundred years old, so they've probably seen a battle or two or were an Aspect Warrior or Ranger at one point in their life. By that virtue alone they should be better than Guardsmen, who are the best soldiers the PDF has to offer, but don't have the experience or biology. At the very least the Guardians guns shouldn't be so fucking bad.
>>46292046
Superiority complex. They didn't realize what sort of horrible shit they were doing to themselves before it was too late, and they had way too long a lifespan to really notice the small changes, since back in the day they could reincarnate. The main reason the Craftworld Eldar noticed is because they were gone for long stretches of time. A few Eldar in the Empire noticed and become the Exodites, or were sane enough to be saved before the Fall happened, but overall most of them barely noticed before it was too late.
Also, another important thing to realize is that their religion has changed. You can see this in the Dark Muses of the Dark Eldar today - they don't worship most of the Eldar pantheon, not even Khaine (though Incubi are an exception). And these are the same Dark Muses they've been following since before Slaanesh. They'd weakened their own gods with lack of worship.
>>46292108
The Necrontyr are god breakers twice over.
Primitive savages they are not.
>>46292108
>picked a fight with a race of advanced psychic immortals to solve that and lost anyways
Then they came back with metal bits and stomped their shit along with the Eldar and Krork.
>>46292030
I have no idea why people argue this. It is labeled as a medical device ad looks like one.
>>46292030
No, it's the medical device that goes with the medical kit. The pistol is the one that goes on the left hand, seen on the vox-operator. You can clearly see the difference in design. The medic can't even have a pistol, yet he's the only model ever shown holding that thing.
>>46292243
Are you sure it's not a pistol with a bonesaw attached and the injector is some other device?
Because it looks like a hotshot laspistol with a chainsaw attached.
>>46280721
>>46282978
I like their look. Could work for a less flashy version of Scions. Though it is a bit too nautical.
I think I'm going to rank, look-wise, Kasrkin > Scions > Auxilia >>> Inquisition Stormies now.
>>46292085
I never claimed to be the smartest.
>>46291549
>The inheritors of many thousands of years of warrior tradition, trained to razor sharpness, and armed with technology so advanced it seems like magic.
You just described both forces though.
>>46292430
Yes but while the Marines carry that description from our prespective, the Eldar carry that description from the Imperium's perspective.
>>46288904
Well, no one is arguing that.
>>46288918
Eh, Grenadiers are cool, but they mostly run off Krieg coolness and they honestly don't look that heavy or elite. Kasrkin make the generic Cadian look work.
>>46285681
Older stormies looked kind of rag-tag, but that may be because the models were bad. Scions are simply better made (though the kit itself is BULLSHIT; fuck having 16 heads and both regular troop and command squad in a single box that amounts to 5 MEN TOTAL).
Also Guardsmen can go from very utilitarian Elysian look to overly pimpin' Vostroyan. Kind of makes sense for Scions to look a bit of tacticool and flashy at the same time, giving them a unique look. If there's any fault with Kasrkin is that they're always Cadian, while Scions can look like elite heavy troopers in conjunction with any force. I'm imagining the grey-and-gold heavy nobility troopers from Gaunt's Ghosts to look a lot like them.
>>46292317
Yes, I am sure.They are listed together meaning they are a single tool.
If they were separate tools then the text would say "The squad medic carries a medi-pack, a macabre bone saw and an anesthetic injector".
You can also look at the picture to see that there is no other injector.
>>46292517
Tacticool commando look suited stormies more than flashy bling-bling. They weren't Space Marines, they were special forces to do special force stuff. Even SM Scouts look more tacticool than Scions. They should have made the cuirass smaller and techier rather than flashy, with some webbing, and added padding and pouches to the legs. The masks should have been proper rebreathers, not those hockey masks.
And yeah, 5 man box with all the bits was a bit too much. We can't change that now, but they could make it the command squad box and release a 10-man box with just 10 dudes with guns, sergeant bits and the special weapons. Maybe make stormie HW teams a reality again (like they were in 2e) and throw a few options for that in there as well.
>>46292549
And do note that it says "this macabre bone saw and anesthetic injector." Referring specifically to the picture.
>>46292455
No the marines have it from the majority of the Imperiums perspective to.
>>46292658
They should look flashy for fluff reasons. Since their invention guardsmen are suppose to look at stormtroopers with owe and fear.
Though their skills were without question they are commonly known as "big toy soldiers" and "glory boys" among their comrades. Fluff wise they were suppose to be full of themselves or at least leave that impression on those around them. Their new design though not perfect helps show this fluff better.
>>46292658
Oy, the masks are the coolest part! If anything they should have thrown the beret option out. And it's not like they're less of rebreathers than Kasrkin masks.
>>46292801
>Since their invention guardsmen are suppose to look at stormtroopers with owe and fear.
Then why does the fluff says they're resented by regular troops?
They get the nick-names and hate because they're better trained and equipped, get shit done and get praise. Of course the plebs gonna hate. Nowhere have I come across them being boasting assholes. You'd think they beat that attitude out of them and replace it with duty and vigilance.
They don't make stormtroopers to stand around and look pretty, they make them to get shit done.
>>46292816
>not like they're less
Oh yes they are. At least the Cadian rebreathers look like rebreathers. Those Scion ones are just hockey masks. They're not good for nothing but stabbing naked bitches in 80's horror movies.
>>46293002
They look bulkier than Cadian small masks and the round goggles give them a more inhuman look. Looking kind of scary is Imperium's MO. They're very similar to Vostroyan masks.
If you added a bit more to the helmet you'd get pre-movie Star-Lord look.
Also some IG use WW2 era gas masks as their rebreathers.
>still get shat on by Scouts
>>46293129
>They're very similar to Vostroyan masks.
Ok, anon, lay off the pipe for a while, you're talking crazy.
>Looking kind of scary is Imperium's MO.
Scions don't look like that at all. They look like dudes with hockey masks.
>Also some IG use WW2 era gas masks as their rebreathers.
And what does this have to do with Scion masks?
>>46292966
Those who see their skills cannot argue why they have so much praise.They are insulted due to outside of battles they are given high status and treatment (see picture).
A toy soldier is typically decorative so someone described as being nothing more than a "big toy soldier" should be as well.
>>46293318
So most guys hate them because they're glory hogs, but they also walk the walk?
I see no problem with this.
>>46293318
That's what I said. Regular troops (who are not part of super secret special missions) have an ire for stormies for all the praise they get, but they get shit done.
It has nothing to do with their flashy looks or them being assholes about it.
>>46293318
>special treatment
If anything they are treated even shittier than normal guardsmen...
>>46293298
You've specifically chosen a beret head with no tubes coming out of the mask.
Now look at all these. Those are not hockey masks, those are bulky rebreathers. They have the same beady round goggles as Vostroyans and pipes going to the side, but with them less bulky and without the central part. They look more like facial armour than Kasrkin rebreathers (though I still agree that Kasrkin are superior).
Also what's your hangup on hockey masks?
>>46292046
They did, the Craftworlders and Exodites are literally Eldar /pol/. They were running around shitposting about "muh degeneracy" and getting ignored, right up until the birth of She Who Thirsts.
>>46290905
I hate the Eldar, but he's right. I'm pretty sure that the entire point of the Eldar was basically that they were humans, but better in every way on an individual basis.
But even that superiority won't save them because Eldar vs Imperium is like a Swiss watch vs a boulder.
It's grimdark
>>46293548
I've chosen the first image that came up when I googles for scions. Also, yeah, wow, lets add a tube to the mask. Now it's totally not a hockey mask.
>Also what's your hangup on hockey masks?
What's your boner for them? Any kind of actual rebreather apparatus would have looked better on them than those stupid things. There is one of two heads with an actual gasmask type thing, but the rest is just hockey masks with a possible tube. Radical!
>>46293406
You are overlooking the insult itself. Those who have not seen their skills call them "big toy soldiers" which implies they are just their to look good.
The guardsmen who think they are good enough to go on these special missions (as you put it) would think they are just fall of themselves. The thing is scions create this impression everywhere they go. This impression is created by guardsmen looking at these guys and how they act outside the battlefield ( brawl are common according to a WD magazine) not by observing them on the battlefield.
>>46290905
that's canon though. Source: All of the Eldar and DEldar codexes
>>46293638
I like the entire helmet look. Like I've said, they look a bit like comic Star-Lord's helmet. And that's one sexy helmet. I wish the tempestor's head had more gubbins like it instead of the silly spike. Those only look good on pickelhaubes.
>>46293638
Okay, but that's just like your opinion man.
>>46293667
Only they aren't there just to look good. It doesn't matter what a truckload of fags call them, as long as they act professional and get the fucking job done.
>>46293667
Big toy soldiers refers to IG thinking that the Scions are only so great because they get flashy shit to play with, not necessarily because of their skill.
And they think they are arrogant assholes, because Scions are pretty detached from the outside world and the mostly just care about performing their missions with utmost perfection. To an outside observer, who has no knowledge that they are basically just brainwashed child soldiers with little emotion and personality, that would appear as them being assholes who are so arrogant because they think themselves better.
>>46293667
You think real life regular grunts don't look at real life special forces dudes and talk shit about them? The amount of shit that gets passed between soldiers about other units is crazy. If you had a bunch of soldiers, especially outside your own unit, that you've never seen do anything and who get all the best gear, good treatment and all the officers suck their dicks, you'd start calling them names too.
>>46293234
What the hell? Where are the babyfaces?!
>>46293879
>Big toy soldiers refers to IG thinking that the Scions are only so great because they get flashy shit to play with, not necessarily because of their skill.
It would be a bit of both. A soldier can only look flashy if he has good gear but the purpose of a toy soldier is to only look good.
>And they think they are arrogant assholes, because Scions are pretty detached from the outside world and the mostly just care about performing their missions with utmost perfection.
My point was never about deciding if scion were arrogant or not. It was about how they leave that impression everywhere they go.
>>46293906
Big toy soldier is a real insult.Over in England it is an insult for soldiers such as the palace guard, claiming they are just dudes in fancy uniform. Your point is exactly why I think stomrtroopers should have some bling.
>>46293667
Now that's assuming a lot about what the insult means. It could mean that they're just there to look good, true. But it could mean that they're 'toys' of the higher ups, taking orders directly from them and getting special treatment. It could refer to how they drill, more fit for a parade ground than real warfare.
>>46294114
>soldiers such as the palace guard, claiming they are just dudes in fancy uniform
You mean the dudes who are actually hard as fuck? Gee, it's almost like dude who have not seen them in action or don't know shit, would call them out for not doing nothing.
>Your point is exactly why I think stomrtroopers should have some bling.
Stormies are not fucking palace or Swiss guard. They're front line operators. They're not called toy soldiers because they're standing around, guarding some administrator on Terra.
>>46294114
Stormtroopers do the fucking job. They don't give a fuck about looking good or making people like them. They get the best gear because they make the best use of it:
The IG grunts can call them toy soldiers all they want, it won't change the that they're the biggest badasses the IG can come up with.
>>46294239
I wonder who could be behind this post.
>>46294114
Toy soldiers is an insult towards soldiers that look nice, but are complete shit. Big toy soldiers is an insult that implies they are only good because they get all the good shit to play with.
We can argue semantics and what the writers meant with the insult, but you seem to be the only one defending your position "they get shat on because they look flashy"
>>46293906
I don't think the US Army regulars particularly talk shit about Special Forces, they don't really have much in the way of way kool gear. They mostly babysit durkas and try to get them to fight for us, truly a shit job. Most of the shit talking seems to be more between branches.
Its hard to relate to in 40k since 40k is very equipment focused and you live or die a little bit by your skill and a whole lot whether you are kitted out with T-shirt plus a flashlight or like a Christmas Tree, while combat gear isn't likely to be superior or inferior based off your rank in the US military -- special forces are more *specialized forces*. Lets remember that space marines kitted like IG would still not be able to accomplish much.
Of course while old stormtroopers had to have longevity (10k galaxy wide, which I don't mind so long as there are only 1mil space marines -- if you increase one you should increase the other imo), new stormtroopers tend to die about as fast as regular IG, so things don't go too well for them.
>>46294199
>You mean the dudes who are actually hard as fuck? Gee, it's almost like dude who have not seen them in action or don't know shit, would call them out for not doing nothing.
Identical to the stormtroopers fluff. People who insult them have not seen them in action.
>Stormies are not fucking palace or Swiss guard. They're front line operators. They're not called toy soldiers because they're standing around, guarding some administrator on Terra.
It does not have to be palace guard (who have often served in wars) if you don't want it to be. During WW2 British commandos were featured heavily in propaganda making them loathed by other soldiers. These guys were also famous beret wearers. All the statues and posters I have seen of them have them wearing berets. The classic 2nd stormtroopers were clearly inspired by them in my book.
>>46294283
Seeing that the "big toy soldiers" was around before Scions were a thing, when stormies were all tacticool SAS, it hardly referred to them being blinged up.
>>46290829
Why the heck don't eldar have some sort of Brotherhood of Sorcerers thing? It could be totally minor, but it fits with eldar as well as GKs.
Scions is the new name for stormtroopers?
Are they basically Schola Progenum babies who lacked the leadership to be a commissar and the girly parts to be Adeptus Sororitas?
>>46294239
Quick, somebody stop him! He'll make normal humans sound moderately useful!
>>46294390
They are fed a drug that destroys their personality and trained with the skills to survive suicide missions.
>>46294390
At least in theory, a girl could be an Arbites or a Stormtoroper or a Commissar.
Commissars are usually the ones that are the most charismatic or leaderlike, Arbites are the ones that are the most brutal and stolid, and Stormtroopers are usually the ones somewhere between them all. If there was an award for most faith, the Sororitas would have it, but they're all pretty faithful.
>>46290070
>>46294327
It was also used in 2nd edition when stomrtroopers were beret wearing commandos without any special gear. Hell, they had a 6+ armour saves then.
>>46291647
Yeah really. Space marines are not far off from eldar in terms of lifespan to combat experience ratio.
>>46291708
How are aspect warriors inferior to marines in practice, anyway? Aren't normal guardians I4 to I5 (can't remember) and BS 4? What are aspect warriors and exarchs?
Seems to me aspect warriors probably DO beat space marines in initiative and either BS/WS, which is all you could expect.
>>46291549
Your average tactical marine has more combat experience than your average aspect warrior.
>>46294510
Modern Eldar aspect warriors, when taken with the right formations, will absolutely shred any comparative marine squad focused on the same specialty (Tacs vs. Avengers, assaults vs. banshees, etc.) going off the stats and abilities alone
This does vary on the formation, though, since those can boost the WS/BS of your aspect warriors by one or not.
>>46291342
You forget that space marines occupy multiple tiers. Either a scout or a space marine devastator (who is someone that's immediately graduated from being a scout, has his full augments and armor, and is now ready for escorting battle brothers who have the heavy weapons) is the next step above normal humanity.
Tacticals are definitely above aspect warriors in terms of battle experience. Of course, there's absolutely nothing cool about them mechanically.
>>46294510
Well, Space Marines are MEQ. But you have to remember that they can bring a lot of special weapons to the field even in their tactical squads - something Guardians can't do.
>>46294530
Your average marine has more experience in a variety of types of combat than an aspect warrior, because marines need to be versatile more than they need to be specialized, but will not outmatch an aspect warrior at the specific type of combat an aspect warriors specializes in.
>>46294577
That's what I figured. I have no idea what people are complaining about.
>>46294606
By the time he's graduated as a devastator and as an assault marine, he has more experience in each individually than your average aspect warrior does at his.
>>46294251
Somone whose ass was saved from a BBQ by the real life version of those guys. I play my Stormtroopers like an army of Delta force with cooler shit.
>>46292688
Anesthetic injector is just a lasgun. One shot of this in a major artery and the patient won't be feeling much pain for long.
>>46294631
No. That's simply not the case. Even assault marines and devastators are expected to master all forms of combat regardless of their specialty. Even once they've been given these positions, they still focus their training on a wide assortment of things because a space marine's greatest strength is his versatility above all.
>>46294326
You're the one going on and on about how they need bling because they're getting called toy soldiers like palace guard.
>>46291703
You forgot the bit about the ears.
>>46294797
I didn't forget it. Xenology says nothing about the quality of their hearing.
>>46294830
But it did talk about their ears.
>>46294868
the only important bit
The jantinian patricians were purple gold, I thought.
>>46294892
It sure is.Best part is that I always imagine their ears were sensitive, and when I read Xenology I was like "I knew it!"
>>46294918tfw no eldar waifu to snuggle with
>>46294898
did the jantine patricians use hellguns as well?
>>46294973
Dont know anymore, long tim3 since I read the book. Just want to be sure I remember correctly.
>>46280721
Why did Forge World make up some models for a fighting force that didn't exist in the fluff before instead of Imperial army dudes?
>>46295008
Well, the 40k wiki says you're right about their uniforms
>The Jantine Patricians sported purple uniforms with many decorative gold markers to denote rank. They wore heavy metal cuirasses and other ornate armour, to denote their role as heavy shock troopers
>>46294766
I mentioned palace guards once as an example.I gave another to help explain my point.
The new stomrtroopers seem like a hybrid design of the 2nd edition stormtroopers and their newer guard miniatures. Like most miniatures GW releases now they are very over the top but to keep with that old time design and fluff they do need to be decorative .Even if it is just a silly hat or a skull on the chest plate.
I agree with most of the design changes original mentioned but they still need some flash.
>>46294918
>>46294892
Fuck, there was writefaggotry for this back in the day, but I cannot find it. Help a guy with poor google-fu out?I tried suptg but got only quests
>>46295208
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/An_Eldar%27s_Ears
and how to maneuver suptg anyway?
>>46295024
I heard it was one designer's pet project. No wonder they're teh bestest and most liked and all that shit, instead of just being a bunch of dudes from Saturn or where ever the original SA originated from.
>>46295024
Army is called the excertus imperialis now. And the solar auxilia are the best of the excertus.
>>46295201
>newer guard miniatures
The Wyvern/Hydra and Ogryns?
>but they still need some flash
No, they don't. Fuck GW's Warcraft period, we don't need that. I wish they'd just stop being a bunch of retards already. They're not helping anyone with this shit.
>>46295201
>they need some flash
No thanks.
>>46295393
Exertus Imperialis is more the Departmento Munitorum, it contains not just the fighting units, but support, logistic, etc. Both Book 4 and 5 call the fighting portion, the Imperial Army part, the "Imperialis Auxilia."
>>46295421
>The Wyvern/Hydra and Ogryns?
They have released a lot more than that.I am talking about newer relatively.
>No, they don't. Fuck GW's Warcraft period, we don't need that. I wish they'd just stop being a bunch of retards already. They're not helping anyone with this shit.
Considering scions are one of their most successful kits, they are doing themselves some favors with the design.
>>46280721
If you refer from the pic, the Veletaris Storm was generaly at the same quality as scion/stormtrooper rulewise and fluffwise, since they're an elite among's auxilia, and recruited at the same method as Kasrkin. Mostly in battlefield, they serve as hunter-killer squad and flankers, works to disable enemy key point. Also close quarter specialist that work alongside the big force. I even think they're the first stormtrooper.
>>46295573
The Kasrkin models are selling fine too.
I even throw grav chutes on mine and call them Warhawks. GW doesn't need to fuck up their only models that look cool without being over the top just to appeal to your autism.
>>46295635
>The Kasrkin models are selling fine too.
I doubt that.
They had different missions. Modern Stormtroopers are special forces who specialize in raids
Solar Auxilia had super heavy tanks, artillery, combat aircraft, etc.. They were frontline shock troops
>>46295573
>They have released a lot more than that.I am talking about newer relatively.
Maybe it would help if you would just say what you're referring to, because I'm not really seeing this blinged out new IG.
>Considering scions are one of their most successful kits
[citation needed]
>>46295670
>[citation needed]
Check the bestsellers.
>>46295670
>>Considering scions are one of their most successful kits
>[citation needed]
they featured on GW's bestseller list on their webstore since release (including now) and were also in the top 25 kits of 2015
>>46295649
A lot of IG armies I've seen have them. And in growing numbers.
Anyway, how the fuck do you know?
>>46295635
>The Kasrkin models are selling fine too.
Scions are one of GW's best sellers. Scions are more popular than Kasrkins ever were.
I honestly don't like the new design much myself but if you have to be autistic to like them then GW sure does know who their target audience.
>>46294942
>tfw no eldar qt to matyr yourself on for the emperor
Truly the worst of feels
>>46295635
>The Kasrkin models are selling fine too.
I'd like to know how, seeing that they're no longer sold by GW.
>>46295715
>A lot of IG armies I've seen have them. And in growing numbers.
You must realise that you have a very narrow look at the wider hobby.
>Anyway, how the fuck do you know?
GW don't even sell them any more, they cannot be selling fine if they are not even sold.
>>46295744
she primed his grenade alright
>>46295744
Gloria Ut Imperator.
>>46295705
>>46295707
Man, sales must be bad for all the other stuff. I'm reminded of how the Tyranid TL devourer arms were on several of FW's bestseller lists, right alongside HH Marines.
If we're to trust GW on their statement. But lets say we do. Is this because of the new and improved design, or because they're plastic stormies and they got their own codex now, allowing a lot of factions to take them along for the ride?
>>46280721
Training wise probably inferior. Equipment wise superior. To put everything into perspective.
Training
>Velatris are the best of the Solar Auxilia, which while good are still only the best 25% of the Imperial Army. They are more like the best of the meh
>Scions, Storm Troopers, and Kasrkin are trained from extremely young ages to be highly trained and dedicated special forces/shock troopers.
Guard wins
Armour
>Velatris have reinforced void armour, superior in protection to carapace armour while also allowing one to fight in the void unimpeded, where the Velatris and Solar Auxilia in general specialize in.
>Scions and company have regular carapace armour, good but still inferior to reinforced void armour at least on the tabletop as reinforced void armour can reroll armour saves vs blasts and templates.
Weapons
>Velatris are armed with Volkite chargers, short range but powerful weapons, while they lack the penetration of hot-shot lasguns they still wound marines on a 3+ and can cause additional wounds.
>Scions and company have hotshot lasguns which have only one advantage, they ignore 4+ and 3+ armour, which while good doesn't help when you need a 5+ to wound marines anyway.
Put simply like many things in 40k the 40k equivalent is better trained and more experience but has to make due with inferior equipment.
>>46282433
BS 4 vs BS 4
So how are scions better shots? Also due to special rules Velatris can be WS 4 in close combat due to formations or whatever.
>>46295573
The Scions are very nice miniatures. There is absolutely no denying this.
However, personally I think they don't look like good Stormtroopers. They're supposed to be an extension of the Imperial Guard, the crème de la crème of the Imperium's fighting soldiers. The Imperial Guard as a whole have a very practical and utilitarian look about them with lots of muted colours and camouflage. Even the exceptions to this rule (Praetorians, Vostroyans, Mordians) are all very heavily based upon real uniforms that real fighting men wore, so despite being brightly coloured they still appear very practical.
Now, a unit designed to go gallivanting around with an Imperial Guard army needs to fit this aesthetic. The old 'Space SAS' models and Kasrkin understood this, and were appropriately modelled as a sort of 'Guardsman+' which is essentially what Stormtroopers are. The Scions, however, throw this out of the window and subscribe to the Space Marine school of ornamentation: bright, bold colours for the armour plate and a bitchin' trim job for every soldier. This ends up with them occupying some strange limbo zone between the Imperial Guard and the Space Marines; they are too bright and colourful to fit in with the Guard but too Guard-like to fit in with the Space Marines.
The aesthetic is also strange because Stormtroopers are all about missions deep behind enemy lines that likely involve an awful lot of stealth and sneaking around, which obviously doesn't work with such bright colours. Also the Commissars, who are also a product of the Schola Progenum (sp?) and often associated with Stormtroopers, wear very practical clothing despite acting as a highly visible and intimidating presence on the battlefield. It just doesn't make sense.
>>46295298
Muchos g̶r̶a̶c̶i̶a̶s̶ fapias
>>46291342
>Necron Warriors
>Low tier
considering that they're nigh-unkillable death machines with atom flayers, I'd but them a bit higher. When it comes to Crons it's important to remember that all the races of 40k adopt a run away strategy when facing a tomb world. This is solely because even thier basic troops can kill / destroy anyone elses most advanced and skilled units. Generally when the Imperium or Eldar come across a tomb world they destroy it from orbit rather than retake it. Orkz, Nids & Chaos actively avoid them at all costs. And Tau throw parties that end poorly for them
>>46295880
>If we're to trust GW on their statement.
Oh fuck off, GW hasn't just put a random kit on their bestsellers to spite you.
>Is this because of the new and improved design, or because they're plastic stormies and they got their own codex now, allowing a lot of factions to take them along for the ride?
It's probably because they look good, their rules aren't anything to write home about.
>>46295881
>Scions, Storm Troopers, and Kasrkin
Scions and storm troopers is the same thing. You might as well say Space Marines and the Adeptus Astartes. And how long will people keep equating Kasrkin to storm troopers? They're Cadian grenadiers, just like the Krieg grenadiers are for Krieg. Their training might borrow from stormie training, but it's far from the psycho conditioning and orphan schooling that the Progena go through.
>>46286214
http://www.mirandairene.com/products/imperial-guard/solar-auxilia-lasrifle-section-1114.html
$50 for 20 dudes, cheaper than guardsmen.
>replace a cool looking model with a shitty one
>the shitty one sells better
I hate my other players sometimes.
>>46295961
>It's probably because they look good
Of course it is, otherwise your argument wouldn't hold up.
>>46294745
Its got an ampule on the back and is likely a medical version of the needle pistol. It fires a low velocity but thin and sharp needle of crystalized medicine that penetrates right through thin flak armor and into the body and instantly dissolves upon contact into contraseptic, stimulants and other esoteric medical substances rather then the crude poison of the needle rifle.
>>46295989
what do you think is shitty about the scions?
>>46295973
>Scions and storm troopers is the same thing. You might as well say Space Marines and the Adeptus Astartes.
Some autists get angry at using one or the other exclusively. Apparently some autists get angry if you use both.
>And how long will people keep equating Kasrkin to storm troopers?
Because they are. Kasrkin, Krieg Grenadiers, and other local variants of grenadiers are pretty much storm troopers or scions, the best their world can get trained to a higher degree, equipped in a manner similar to scions or storm troopers, and utilized either as the vanguard for a breakthrough or for infiltration missions, much like storm troopers or scions.
>>46296007
Well why do you think it is?
Are they rocking the tournament scene?
Are they fabulous in value?
There's only one reason for them to be selling consistently well, and that's because people like their look.
>>46295066
I feel good about this, thanks.
>>46296035
I gotta agree with that anon, they just look out of place in the Imperial Guard. Cadians, Catachans, Steel Legion, Tallarn, Elysians, and Death Korps all looked like pragmatic forces, they wore relatively unadorned armour, carried weapons that looked mass produced and looked like they were soldiers who simply wanted to do a job rather than earn glory or something asinine like that. Tempestus Scions look like space marines and death korps grenadiers had a baby, they have a similar gun to grenadiers but besides that look like marines with smaller pauldrons and a bigger chest. And now that statement has made me imagine Tempestus Scions as female marines.
Regardless, sure some armies might look good with scions but for the most part I feel like something like Kasrkin or old storm troopers would have been a better idea.
>>46295927
The guard isn't just mostly this or that, there are a lot of different regiments from a lot of different worlds, everything may vary.
And I like the ornamented but utilitarian armor, it's the far future with different schools of thought.
Also stealth is relative.
>>46296044
>Because they are.
I disagree, Scions are the Imperial Elites, Kasrkin, Grenadiers etc. are attempts at the regimental level, results may vary.
>>46296044
>Apparently some autists get angry if you use both.
If you imply they're separate things, some people might feel the need to correct your faulty assertions.
>Because they are.
They're not. They might use storm trooper rules, but they're very different.
>>46296062
Keep believing that.
>>46296044
Kasrkins could not infiltrate or deepstrike when they had rules. In the eye of terror codex they lacked the option and in the guard codex grenadiers were stroomtrooper which could not infiltrate or deepstrike as well.
Fluff wise they are suppose to be similar to stormtroopers but act as guards for fortresses. I always thought they were meant to be more of a vanguard for a breakthrough than infiltrating or deep striking unit.
>>46296221
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Tempestus_Scions
Look at the part that says Kasrkin.
>>46296254
Well, do you have an alternate explanation?
One that actually makes sense?
>>46294763
I'm talking about real battle experience.
>>46296147
Eh, like the grandiose design, I'm all for utilitarianism but at a point it seems to have dull as the goal. This universe has cloth that can stop bullets and las bolts, camoflauge is ineffective at large, and moral is important, so why not kill heretics and look good in the Imperial planet-governors colors?
>>46296165
And pretty much every regiment in that image is either utilitarian, clearly based upon a real-world culture/army, or both. The Scions are neither and instead look like Space Marines, which is an aesthetic that is basically non-existent among existing Guard regiments.
>>46296301
>Kasrkin are the elite of the already highly trained Cadian Shock Troops, dedicated utterly to the preservation and security of Cadia with an ethos of duty and honour both impressive and intimidating. Pronounced "Kas-er-kin", these elite soldiers are picked up while serving as Whiteshields in the Cadian Youth Armies, then sent to a number of military academies modeled on the Schola Progenium. More than a match for Imperial Scions, Kasrkin squads are allocated to Shock Trooper companies to provide a cutting edge in battle as well as conducting special operations.[7] Whereas the standard Scions can be looked down upon in envy by Imperial Guardsmen, the standard Kasrkin is admired, particular in their own regiment, for their cool-headed composure during combat.[8] They are well versed in destroying the enemies of the Imperium (especially the forces of Chaos) and will lead the charge in the defense of Cadia. To be a Kasrkin is to hold a position of honour which is recognised by all Cadians.[Needs Citation] While still Storm Troopers, Kasrkin operate with their own unique pattern of Hellgun and Carapace armour.
Exactly what I said, a similar attempt at the regimental level.
>>46296147
I really liked the Kasrkin models but I agree with them not going that route. They are way too Cadian centric. Personally I would have preferred plastic versions of the Mark Bedford stormies.
>>46296340
Scions aren't a Guard regiment.
They're an Imperium standardised organisation.
>>46296221
>I disagree, Scions are the Imperial Elites, Kasrkin, Grenadiers etc. are attempts at the regimental level, results may vary.
The same concepts apply though. They are well trained and have similar equipment. At the end of the day they are comparable much like say Delta Force and Navy seals are similar. Are they identical? No. Are they special forces of the US military utilizing similar equipment? Yes.
I am sure Scions are better than many grenadiers, but I am also sure that many grenadiers are superior to scions (like Death Korps grenadiers who have WS 4 vs Scions' WS 3). Besides Scions aren't all identical either, the MT codex constantly mentions that different scion regiments have different specialties and different preferred enemies, much like Guard regiments, so if you don't consider Scions comparable to grenadiers you shouldn't consider scions comparable to other scions.
>>46291295
>Crystal Feces
I swear how do the space pixie fairies manage to not have their anuses ripped apart is something I will never get.
>>46296347
>While still Storm Troopers
>>46296376
An Imperium standardised organisation that are essentially the special forces of the Imperial Guard. Who do you think they looked like future-SAS with laser guns for years and years and years?
>>46296304
Why does it have the be one, ultimate explanation?
>>46296340
Or neither, I don't recall any armies with uniforms stolen from a hazardous waste processing plant.
And the criteria for 'existing regiment' is rather easy, be mentioned in a book or even homebrewed are acceptable.
And It makes sense for Scions to emulate marines for morale reasons or propaganda, or just for symbolism, I doubt they're the only ones.
>>46296366
Yeah, that design is so god damn cool.
>>46296418
Semantics.
>>46296435
Well there has to be some reason why they're in the bestsellers pretty consistently and when they're not even a new kit. So go on, if it's not that people like how they look then what is it?
>>46296417
"Crystalline structure" is what it says. Pearls, for one, have a crystalline structure.
>>46296416
True.
As I said, results may vary.
>>46296467
>prove my point that they're still storm troopers
>it doesn't count
Really breh?
>>46296322
I like grandiose too, but the thing is that the majority of regiments that GW sells alongside scions are very drab in appearance and don't look like the kind of regiments to dress in polished silver armour with gold trim.
Now if Cadians were a fancy regiment sure, or if GW had plastic mordians or vostroyans who they pushed as hard as Cadians, sure but seeing how Cadians are the poster boys they should try to attempt to make units match that general theme. It would be like if GW came out with vanguard veterans who had no real distinctive markings, no trim to their armour, no eagles on their chests, no skulls on their knees, no purity seals. Sure they would make sense for a regiment like the Raptors, but they would stand out as weird in an army of Ultramarines or something.
>>46296481
Well that's a good point. Thanks for straightening it anon.
