Is it just me or does Shadows Over Innistrad have a terrible art direction and writing to match, especially when compared to the original Innistrad Block?
There seems to be so many women featured on the majority of cards I swear Innistrad is havind a male population crisis, not to mention Blacula and other out of place ethnicities in a European setting.
Also MtG Art & Writing Discussion General I guess.
>>46262348
So you mean like everything Magic's produced in the last few years?
Who would have thought.
>>46262348
It's just you.
You aren't wrong about the female thing, its much more apparent this time around and you can definitely see the bias in showing women in strong positions while the men are either rabid, mad, or ghosts in most depictions.
You're absolutely wrong on the art direction though, most of it looks fantastic and the odd case like in your picture are few and far in-between.
You're also wrong about ethnicity thing considering they were already there in original innistrad.
>There seems to be so many women featured on the majority of cards I swear Innistrad is havind a male population crisis, not to mention Blacula and other out of place ethnicities in a European setting.
are you really this fucking petty?
>>46262580
Just for reference, what minorities non-Euro ethnicities were in OG Innistrad? I just remember Snap-Caster Mage.
>>46262597
just asians and blacks
>>46262593
You're in a b8 thread m8. Of course he's that petty.
I bet women are only in like 40-50% of the humanoid art, at the very most, and OP interprets that as "so many".
>>46262348
It isn't Europe. It's another dimensional plane which just happens to bear many similarities to 16/17th century Germanic rural villages.
While I don't get the fear of having women and minorities represented in a card game, this set featured more full digital video game box art than older sets had.
They've moved away from having art on cards and moved towards just having pictures
>>46262580
>The men are all mad
>Avacyn is insane and murderous and Bordeline
>Nahiri is a crazy ex girlfriend wrecking Sorin's shit
But sure.
>>46262616
I can never get over how much that guy's haircut makes him look like Frederick Douglass.
Ironically Conspiracy had some excellent art, despite being mostly rejects from other sets.
SOI's flavor direction has been fantastic, it's looking like one of the best sets in years.
>>46262348
Stop getting triggered over dumb shit.
>damn SJWs puttin wymen on my cards. MAGIC IS DEAD
>>46263131
Most flavourful cards thread?
>Insolent Neonate
Full of himself fucker who's going to get strangled to death by his own people.
>Press for Answers
Detain someone for questioning.
>Alms of the Vein
You're much more likely to bite some fucker on the street if you're Mad.
>Confront the Unknown
Gain insight and use it to attack the darkness.
>Avacynian Missionaries
Give the missionaries weapons and they become inquisitors.
>Briarbridge Patrol
Police brutality!
>Ulvanwald Mysteries
Dead bodies mean clues, and then the cops show up
>Daring Sleuth
Mad Insight turns the Lovecraft Investigator into a Bloodborne character
>Uninvited Geist
If you let it into your house once, you can't stop it (would have been great as a Vampire)
>Cult of the Waxing Moon
Werewolves summon the wolves along with them
>Kindly Stranger
If you're delirious, the kind old lady is a creepy ass witch.
>Accursed Witch
She dies and curses you!
>Thing in the Ice
It thaws out into a terrifying monster
>Elusive Tormentor
Oh my God I fucking love this card. The flavour of a vampire that turns into mist and how they handle it is amazing.
>Declaration in Stone
Some fuckery went down, and it's time to investigate
>Ongoing Investigation
Rough up the suspect. Dig up the body to autopsy them.
>>46263248
Insolent Neonates great shit. Really thinking of making my Drana black vampire tribal commander deck into a red/black Oldlivia deck
>>46263248
Elusive Tormenter is on a tier of its own.
>>46262348
Keep /pol/ in /pol/ anon, is on the rules
>>46262348
Explain what your problem with the art direction and the flavour is, outside of too many women and too many people of not-white ethnicity.
>Look mom I posted it again!
>>46262348
Reminder that MtG was always "progressif", and you should stop being triggered by women and black people.
>>46262348
>terrible art direction
Much better than the last two sets, and on par with everything they produced since before the first Innistrad. I don't like some of the artists they use, but in general the art doens't offend me.
>terrible writing
It has always been terrible, the current problem is the focus on uninteresting "lead characters". The strongest part of Magic has always been the worldbuilding, and with The Jacetice League on the forefront and planeswalkers squabbles being the major focus of the new sets we lose a lot of the unique flavor of each plane and their important characters and conflicts.
>women featured on the majority of cards
Women have always been on Magic cards and it shouldn't bother you.
If you're autistic enough to do itas I'm too lazy to do it myselfI would like to see that claim backed up by data: make a list of all the cards on the set, see how many depict female of males, see how many of those depict them in a good/bad/neutral light, and then try to identify the role of the depicted character on the setting (if they're leaders or simply henchmen, for instance). Do that for race as well.
HOWEVER, Wizards itself admits that as a company it has, for the past few years, opened its legs to "diversity", and they are indeed pushing the liberal agenda of inclusion, minority rights and representation. That in itself shouldn't be a problem, but as any corporate entity Wizards does so in a very hamfisted manner which may look crass and annoying for those looking for it.
>>46264493
Indeed.
>>46264703
Next you are going to claim that there was a expansion set on dominaria tropics that closely resembled our africa thus having mostly black people.
>>46262580
>women in strong positions while the men are either rabid, mad, or ghosts in most depictions.
Been noticing it for a while. It reached crescendo for me when they finally revealed a five color legendary for allies and it's some chick who killed an angel.
Yeah, because a man in charge would have been sexist. They're already skirting it with the Gatewatch I suppose. They only got away with Gideon as the leader and Jace Mansplaining because it was Nissa and Chandra who actually did anything during the final battle.
>>46264493
>black Sisay
*smacks lips*
AYO
HOL UP
>>46264804
I've never met anyone who's actually tried to be offended this much.
Wait. What IF innistrad IS having a post WW1 style male population crisis? I know this is giving wizards too much credit, but think about it. Innistrad's militia have been in constant war for years, and furthermore, the crusades they launched all failed when the angels went nuts. It makes a lot of sense for their male population to be dwindling.
>>46262699
>this set featured more full digital video game box art than older sets had.
Remember that time Maro got triggered hard when someone brought this up at GenCon?
>>46264804
>General Tazri is a woman
What the fuck?
I can't imagine why the humans of Innistrad, a society which has been protected by and reveres female angels, would practice gender equality.
>>46262348
>>46264782
>>46264804
>But anons it was not enough for you with the card that depicts the ku klux klan?
>>46264886
Nope, is there a video or something?
I am of the opinion that magic art has kind of been degrading the last two or so blocks, mostly due to it becoming nearly 100% digital, which in and of itself isn't a bad thing, just look at Noah Bradley, but it seems like the digital artists are making too much use of photobashing and similar stuff and the result is (for me) a degradation of quality. The portraits they did for the Wizards website of the pre-planeswalker Gatewatch team just look too clean and their faces are weird.
All of that having been said I think their art direction is getting more clever. Look at all of the subtlety in some of the art. Triskaidekaphobia for example, or the reappearance of the redhead angel in a bunch of different cards, or the reuse of many of the original Innistrad land arts but with cryptoliths/ spooky Emrakul lights. Also racial/gender diversity on card art is fine, why can't you deal with it? It's not the personal attack that some of you make it out to be.
The story had gotten cheaper as of late though, that's undeniable.
>>46264924
I think you're trying to be clever here, but end up sounding like an idiot.
In a society such as that of Innistrad, in which humans are threatened daily with gruesome murder by vampire, werewolf, ghost or zombie violence, women would NEVER be trackers or fighters. They would be protected and cloistered by the male members of their society since guaranteeing the existence of the future generations would be of great importance to them. One man can father a ridiculous amount of sons and daughters, a woman can, at best give birth what, 20 or so times throughout her life.
That said, in that order they would likely be religious, administrative and possibly political figures of importance.
>>46264829
Jamuraa is full or black and brown people.
Get over it.
>>46265090
Do you also bring up that reason to disallow female characters in RPGs that you play?
>>46263248
>Sinister concoction
I love how the rules text of this card is written like some ancient, fantasy potion recipe. Absolutely nailed it.
>>46265121
>OH MY GOD IT'S A FANTASY WORLD, SHUT OFF YOUR BRAIN! IT'S NOT LIKE THINGS HAVE TO BE LOGICALLY CONSISTENT AND IF THE AUTHOR SAYS SO, THEN IT IS!
That's how you sound, you faggot. You're the one bringing the internal consistency of the setting into question by assuming the presence of angels would make gender equality the obvious outcome.
>>46265090
Except that people are not that forward thinking.
If the choice is between having someone around now to help with the harvest/hunt the werewolves/burn down the evil mansion, or have 2 people in 15 years, you are going to have that one person around now.
>>46265090
In a society when they're constantly under threat of being killed, everybody would probably be trained to defend themselves.
>>46265192
What internal consistency?
If there are only 50 people in a village, are you going to prevent any women of child bearing or younger from going outside to prevent them from being harmed?
What happens when you can't feed everyone because werewoves eat all the sheep because you wouldn't let little Suzy play with a wooden sword when she was younger?
What happens when the harvest fails because you wouldn't let the women help because a scarecrow might attack them?
Your reasoning is flawed and shit, and you should feel like shit.
>>46265192
Not the same person. You're also venturing into the realm of hyperbole.
You could use your argument to shun any sort of fantasy media that features female combatants. I'll admit that there's logic behind it but if we take that logic to the extreme that you propose, then women should have absolutely no representation in the entire genre beyond being baby-makers and housewives.
I'm personally willing to bend logic and suspend disbelief if it allows female characters to exist outside of those roles in fantasy. Not to mention there's all of the arguments present in these posts:
>>46265206
>>46265239
>>46265242
Every woman would be expected to be capable of defending the village and would be expected to carry their own weight. Perhaps they wouldn't be the first choice for the most dangerous professions if we follow your logic but that's where we suspend disbelief for equal representation.
What sort of asshole are you, if you really think that female combatants are that much of a deal breaker and verisimilitude destroyer?
>>46264804
Tazri is a woman cursed by mercy killing an angel. If they made her a man you'd complain about her being cursed and weak, and not allowed to lead the charge on Sea Gate.
Did you even read her story? You'd hate her more if she had a dick because she isn't perfect, or even good.
>>46265192
>IT'S NOT LIKE THINGS HAVE TO BE LOGICALLY CONSISTENT
People in stressful situations generally aren't logical.
If the humans could secure their future generations merely by cloistering their women or other "logical" steps, they wouldn't need angels defending them. But they can't, so they do.
>>46265304
Yeah, she's a huge ass who is a good leader and a skilled tactician but isn't a bullshit magic user, so is thus second string to superspecialsuperfriends.
In a setting where they were not facing eldrazi, she would be amazing, because she is a great leader of men. Vs. Eldrazi, she's shit, because unless you have plot protection you die.
>>46265355
So she isn't amazing then. Zendikar never needed someone to lead people, even during Worldwake or OG Zendikar. It was a murder hobo paradise. Her only usefulness was against Eldrazi.
If she were a man, nothing would change, so who gives a shit? She isn't even the best Allies commander in 5 colors.
>>46265206
>>46265239
>>46265242
>>46265309
Why are people so triggered by the mere notion of gender roles in a fantasy setting?
Women would NEVER be encouraged to become soldiers and trackers or anything that put them willingly under direct danger.
>>46265456
You're the one triggered by the absence of gender roles in a fantasy setting in the first place.
If you and another autists weren't, this thread would have never begun. So stop being triggered, man.
>>46265456
what if they wanted to though?
>>46265456
They're triggered because they don't understand basic biology and sexual dimorphism.
To wit: human males are taller and stronger because they've evolved to be hunters and fighters, while women have higher pain tolerance because they have to push out more humans.
>>46265456
Why are people so triggered by the mere notion that gender roles in a fantasy setting don't match traditional gender roles?
>>46265502
Why does this matter in a setting where hiding away your women is proven to not protect them but make them more vulnerable to possession and mental influence, where the angelic once-saviors of humanity are entirely female and where every human needs to be ready to protect themselves from the horrors that be at every opportunity?
Gender roles quickly disintegrate when life boils down to a situation as simple as 'survive.'
>>46265502
If you can't identify with non dimorphic humans, that's your issue, not the game's. If the evidence you see is "women are as present as men", don't go "that's wrong, that shouldn't be because they are dimorphic", just go "huh, fantasy humans must not be dimorphic, that's kinda neat"
Maybe fantasy humans don't evolve from anything. There is no natural selection. They are, have always been, and will always be humans. All worlds are Creationist. You need U/G magic to mutate something, or to alter a species. There is clearly trivial sexual dimorphism of muscles/etc. if women are as present as men in fighting roles. So fantasy humans must have been made equal. Maybe! It's a lot more fun to think about the implications of the evidence you have rather than to end all consideration and just harrumph "not muh humans" "not how I would organize my militia".
>>46265502
And if the option is die today because you shoved you women into a fortress or die next year because they are fighting with you, which do you think you would chose?
>>46265552
Biology doesn't change, though. Just because women should learn how to defend themselves, doesn't mean they should go looking for fights.
For example, throw Rhonda Rousey and any male welterweight in the ring together. What happens? I guarantee the man winds 9 times out of 10.
In this setting, yes, women need to protect themselves. But like I said, they shouldn't go looking for fights, because they are, in fact, the key to the next generation. No matter how illogical or crazy the thinking gets in a setting, basic biology dictates survival of the species, even if it has to be subconscious.
>>46265636
Maaaaaaaaagic.
Bitch.
>>46265552
>possessed girls
>witches
>vampire bait
I don't see anyone complaining about the prevalence of women in these roles. I guess it's fine as long as they fit in their weak positions as victims?
Meanwhile, if even one girl gets a strong "male" position it's nothing but triggers and bait threads.
>>46265616
If there's no dimorphism, why not just make them a monogender race, instead of human? If they're not, in fact, like IRL humans, why even call them humans?
As for "trivial" differences in muscle mass, where do you think strength comes from? More mass generally means more strength.
>>46265655
Just saying "A wizard did it" is the laziest cop-out there is. The guys saying that desperate times call for desperate measures at least have logic to their arguments. You're just being a lazy bitch.
I wonder how many of the people complaining about too many women would have the same problem if the women were sexy and half naked.
>>46265655
Actually, how does magic access work with gender roles?
If there is an equal chance for skill with magic, and magic is a huge force multiplier, then the value of someone who can use magic is no longer on their gender but their abilities.
>>46265710
I'm not saying a wizard did it, I'm saying Wizards did it.
Get it right, bitch.
>>46265636
Not every woman is being pitted against a man of equal or greater physical fitness. Magic, training, techniques that don't exist in real life and other things may allow a woman to overcome these biological weaknesses when combating monsters.
Also, I'll point above. Your argument taken to its logical extreme could be used to disqualify female characters from combat roles in all fantasy ever. Female characters shouldn't be playable in D&D, Pathfinder, Dark Souls, Skyrim, Fallout, World of Warcraft, Mass Effect, etcetera. Female character shouldn't be present in any combat role in any form of fantasy fiction due to the 'diktats of basic biology.' You're disqualifying half of the human population from even being thought of as ever being in a combat role.
Frankly, I find it far easier to suspend my disbelief to imagine women existing in combat roles in a fantasy world than no women ever existing in combat roles in that fantasy world. Even settings like Gor that adhere to your biotruths still feature women in combatant roles.
>>46265033
I can't find the video, it was one of their lore panels at PAX, not GenCon. Something like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tadiOCUl7s
They did Q&A and someone asked why the cards lately all stick to one semi-realistic style, he really appreciated the more abstract or stylistically different card art. The guy answering (think it was Maro) got really pissed about how disrespectful to the artists that was, they're doing the best job they ever have, etc.
>>46265636
What you don't seem to get is that the pool of labor is too small for those restrictions to be practical.
Sure, the average man is certainly better in a fight than the average woman. However, there aren't enough average men to do the job of keeping everyone safe, and an average woman is generally than a weak man.
Additionally, given that humans are already severely outmatched in strength and speed against werewolves and the like, the difference in strength between a man and woman really doesn't matter so much. A man will get torn apart just as easily as a woman. Effectiveness comes down to weight of numbers, planning, surprise, and weapons, all of which act to equalize individual disparities.
On top of that, half of the other things they're fighting aren't strictly physical to begin with, so strength is a non-factor in determining effectiveness against them.
>>46265724
A valid argument, at last! My only point has been that strength, stamina, and reach are not equal accross genders. However, since magic is based on mental prerequisites, I'd assume that the ability to use magic is more or less equal accross genders.
>>46265693
Because we as humans can't consider anything that is not significantly like us in detail. The best we can get is humanoid, which is human with different color skin and pointy ears. So humans it must be.
>>46265679
Yes, because 'weak women, strong men' is the natural order of things. This is why we don't have a Prince in distress, but a Princess is distress, except in your femdom fantasies.
Fighting man, magic woman.
>>46265771
Maro a cunt
>>46265788
Why does the idea of 'strong man, strong woman' trigger you this hard? Are you incapable of the slightest suspension of disbelief?
>>46265775
Then again, magic isn't really magic in Innistrad.
There is alchemy, necromancy (In the form of zombie creation), some kind of pyromancy, but for the most part we don't see any real wizardy wizards doing wizard things.
I mean heck, is Giest Honored Monk a magic user or just someone that ghosts kinda like?
>>46265816
because its actually "strong woman oppressed man" you fucking liberal cuck
>>46265816
It's spelt 'womyn'.
>>46265832
Have you seen the art for Might Beyond Reason?
Dudes ripped to all heck.
If that guys getting oppressed by anyone I'd be hella surprised.
>>46265788
>Fighting man, magic woman.
You said it yourself. Magic woman makes physical ability moot. It's a natural order different from your preconception of a natural order.
>>46265832
So does this mean any depiction of a strong man over a woman = oppression?
>>46265355
If what Kozilek show ed her of the future was true, the gatewatch would have failed if she had joined the Eldrazi.
>>46265832
Wait, where's the oppressed man? Can you please point out where men are being oppressed, because I'm missing it.
It's not like the primary antagonists in this block are all women, right?
>it's another /pol/ vs. tumblr thread
good ol' mtg flavor and lore
It would only make sense that females would know how to hunt/fight/defend themselves because
A.) Humans aren't the apex predator on Innistrad, so they don't have the luxury of using gender roles to optimize their work and self-defense efficiency based on logic.
B.) A good portion of Innistrad's population is hunters and slayers, who train all their children to hunt and defend themselves because it's not unreasonable that most of the family is eating by a big ass frog or some shit at any moment.
C.) Innistrad's human population is literally defended by a bunch of angels with swords. Little girls look up to winged holy soldiers instead of singers or movie stars when they're younger and want to be like them when they grow up.
There's no way a woman would be able to lift something like this, even at the peak of physical fitness.
This triggering material must be removed from MtG immediately.
>>46265936
Maybe it's because she's human...WEREWOLF
>>46265616
>If the evidence you see is "women are as present as men", don't go "that's wrong, that shouldn't be because they are dimorphic", just go "huh, fantasy humans must not be dimorphic, that's kinda neat"
>It's a lot more fun to think about the implications of the evidence you have rather than to end all consideration and just harrumph "not muh humans" "not how I would organize my militia".
There is nothing to indicate that this is the truth at all outside of card prevalence. Women still very clearly look like the women that we know of in our reality. We're supposed to assume humans function pretty much exactly the same as they do in reality. If they weren't human we wouldn't be calling them human in the first place. If these humans were part of some sort of fantasy race you might have an argument to stand on, but you and I both know these are still just cards being printed by a card game company. A company that can be influenced by progressivism just as easily as any other organization. A company that's likely to take the lazy way out of making their content more diverse by just throwing in minorital groups haphazardly, instead of, you know, actually making likable and interesting characters.
>>46265948
>>46265958
Holy shit! Werewolves are real?
Women were never allowed in militias, this is historically inaccurate and she'd be raped long before she'd be allowed to be the leader.
Petition WotC to change the transformed side of this card into this pathetic fucking 'womyn' being shown her place
>>46265636
>>46265908
I agree with most of what you're saying, especially the angels bit. but
>gender roles to optimize their work and self-defense efficiency based on logic.
based on the /pol/ drivel you're replying to, are you implying that homemaking is logically the most optimal role for women?
there are plenty of non-physical jobs out there
>>46265713
No, then I'd be complaining about all the shitty people who play this game just for the tits and not the gameplay or story.
this art is symbolic of the oppression that WotC are forcing on men
demand that WotC changes the art to that of a woman being shown her rightful place, no man should be seen in a position like this, men are too strong to allow themselves to be put into that position by women, this is too TRIGGERING
>>46265832
>>46265788
So, you're in favor of the opposite, strong men, oppressed women? What is even your point?
no woman has any right to have these stats
should be a 0/1, tap to send her back to the fucking kitchen
>>46265693
Other guy that replied is not me.
Strength does come from muscle mass. So if fantasy women are doing as much heavy lifting and monstrosity chopping as fantasy men, they should have, on average, as much bulk as those men. A dramatic simplification, but I agree with you that there should be demonstrable evidence of fitness for both male and female adventurers to maintain an exemplary level of satisfaction. It could even be called verisimilitude. If they were orca and not humans, I'd want to Frontline fighting women to have as much beef as men to satisfy my autism. It's hard to falsify this since in Innis trad there are few rippling muscles. But it's more correct to think, "Wow, Innis trad women must be tough and able to build as much muscle as men" than "Wow, Wizards aren't using the only correct muscle growth rates across the sexes". That wasn't your argument, but I'm paraphrasing from others in the thread.
In this sense...on topic shockingly, I think the art direction reflects that. I don't see too many roided out women or men, but they all seem pretty well equipped, not too many waifs on the front lines. There are a few female lumberjacks and investigators going around. There are also male soldiers and such looking imposing. There are also a few weak women and a bunch if weak-looking vampire men as well.
Don't mind me, just posting links from my Minus Four Strength folder.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_the_Hatchet
http://aidanmoher.com/blog/featured-article/2013/05/we-have-always-fought-challenging-the-women-cattle-and-slaves-narrative-by-kameron-hurley/
http://www.lothene.org/others/women.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_post-classical_warfare
http://www.heraldica.org/topics/orders/wom-kn.htm
http://ejmas.com/jcs/jcsart_murray_0703.htm
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2012/04/120419-female-gladiator-statue-topless-science-ancient-rome/
http://www.theguardian.com/culture/2000/sep/13/artsfeatures
http://www.military-history.org/articles/samurai-wars/female-samurai-warriors.htm
http://darlingmagazine.org/lady-of-legacy-tomoe-gozen/
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/10/141029-amazons-scythians-hunger-games-herodotus-ice-princess-tattoo-cannabis/
http://www.newyorker.com/books/joshua-rothman/real-amazons
http://www.cracked.com/article_22142_5-badass-facts-about-women-that-history-books-leave-out.html
http://www.civilwar.org/education/history/untold-stories/female-soldiers-in-the-civil.html?referrer=https://www.google.com/
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/women-soldiers-fought-bled-and-died-in-the-civil-war-then-were-forgotten/2013/04/26/fa722dba-a1a2-11e2-82bc-511538ae90a4_story.html
I should probably also start collecting links of foreigners and queer folk.
>>46265502
>>46265628
>>46265636
This is a moot point because Innistrad is not a tribalistic culture. While it's a dangerous, horrifying world, it's also a world where major cities still exist and thrive. It's also worth noting that in places outside of civilization, where division of labour is more necessary (the American Frontier, for instance) gender roles were less rigid; women were needed to homestead and farm just as much as men.
>>46265988
I'm implying that generally speaking men tend to be bulkier and taller, therefore more suited for menial labor. If we were still fucking cavemen who didn't have access to modern technology, this would still be relevant.
proof that wotc has been sexist from the very fucking beginning, depicting women as angels while men are demons, fucking exclusive bullshit demonising the superior gender
I'd love to see /pol/ sit in on a design meeting. Nothing would get done unless the room was a sweaty sausagefest
>Okay this next card is a soldier, she-
>Hold on, a WOMAN SOLDIER?
>Yes, her abilities-
>OUTRAGEOUS, CHANGE THIS AT ONCE
>I don't think-
>NO. CHANGE. IT.
>Okay, next card. A woman is hiding from-
>Good, good. One comment? She should look even weaker, positively cowering and quivering in fear. Maybe in the kitchen. Yes. Yeeesss....
>>46266042
Still doesn't mean that women are incapable of doing menial labor.
>>46265958
Obviously that's just a disgusting transsexual. No woman is that strong.
>>46262593
>are you really this fucking petty?
Just for fun, can you imagine a Return to Mirage with mostly white people?
Holy shit but the butthurt would eclipse the stars. Hardly anyone would call it 'petty' though.
>>46265936
>>46265972
>>46266000
>>46266024
>>46266058
>>46266072
stay classy, samefag
>>46266025
>strength does not come from muscle mass
>men and women can build equal amounts of muscle from the same work
These are both factually wrong though.
>>46266101
But this isn't mostly women or even mostly black people.
>>46265858
>hella
>>>/co/
>>46266118
Exposure to magic over time influences mind and body. Explains why mountain barbarians are particularly roided and impulsive. There. Done. Next question.
>>46265965
Token ism is a different issue. I don't fault Wizards for generally taking an easy solution of sprinkling around different skin tones. They want to be able to respect every IRL skin tone in every set but don't want to spend too much time and effort fleshing out all of the different continents or wherever that the skin tones come from. It would detract from having a tight focus to a plane's story. There is no satisfying easy way, so they chose an unsatisfying easy way until that solution becomes the norm and more people accept it. Not the worst thing they could have done, not the best.
As for fantasy humans not being a fantasy race...again, that's your problem, not the writers'. Humans don't cast magic, human corpses can't be stitched together and revived. Humans don't become ghosts when they die, humans don't hybridize with mantis genes, humans don't gain special powers when they go mad. The world and its races are suffused with magic right down to their bones, these are fantasy humans.
>>46266109
That's not how samefags work, retardfag. He didn't try to respond to someone twice, pretending to be two different people. It's blatantly obvious they're just one person being satirical about the group of people who think social politics are ruining Magic.
Thanks /tg/ for falling in the /pol/ bait
Thanks for encouragin shitposting
Thanks for not keeping /pol/ in /pol/
Thanks for make me laugh
>>46266164
Where did that get explained by Wizards? I must have missed the article where they gave some half-assed le magic excuse just to justify their ignorance of high school biology. Larger muscles still equals more strength you retard. We have weight classes for a reason.
>>46264577
>If you're autistic enough to do it as I'm too lazy to do it myself I would like to see that claim backed up by data: make a list of all the cards on the set, see how many depict female of males, see how many of those depict them in a good/bad/neutral light, and then try to identify the role of the depicted character on the setting (if they're leaders or simply henchmen, for instance). Do that for race as well.
I was going to, but I realized that I don't care enough and it's way too much work, and I'm not even sure how I'd format the data
http://pastebin.com/G2asNU9j
>>46266184
It's not tokenism, though. The only reason people might think black people don't belong is due to their preconceived notions of what a setting like this "should" look like. There are enough black--and even Asian--people here that they're passably an existing ethnicity in the world.
>>46266275
>Larger muscles still equals more strength you retard.
Except in a fantasy world where a beetle can be 8/8 or more.
>>46265755
>Also, I'll point above. Your argument taken to its logical extreme could be used to disqualify female characters from combat roles in all fantasy ever. Female characters shouldn't be playable in D&D, Pathfinder, Dark Souls, Skyrim, Fallout, World of Warcraft, Mass Effect, etcetera. Female character shouldn't be present in any combat role in any form of fantasy fiction due to the 'diktats of basic biology.' You're disqualifying half of the human population from even being thought of as ever being in a combat role.
Is this a problem except under 'muh equality' ? Because yes, generally women should be disqualified for combat roles because they're unfit for them.
>>46266032
Wow cool, and for every woman that did one "badass" thing, 20 men did "badass" stuff too. A woman would have to be amazing to even be close to an above-average man in the same role.
>>46266275
Realism is of the utmost importance to the creation of MtG cards.
>>46266365
If you can survive to live that long on Innistrad, you probably have to be tough
>>46266301
That 8/8 beetle, assuming no magic is involved, is still going to be stronger and larger than a 7/7 beetle. I'm not talking about beetles, I'm not talking about magic, I'm not even taking about women. I'm talking about muscles, so show me an instance where small muscles are somehow stronger than large muscles already.
>>46266352
Oh boy, we got a namefag in here.
>>46265823
Even then, all of those arts aren't reliant on physicality and therefore could be equally utilized by both sexes.
>>46265502
Seems like a pointless distinction, as the strength gap between men and women is basically insignificant compared to the strength gap between humans and werewolves, zombies, vampires, demons, and so on. You're always fighting something enormously stronger than you are on Innistrad no matter what your gender is. Humans tend to win through superior firepower, divine assistance, ambushes and traps, or just outnumbering the SHIT out of the things they're fighting, all of which points a lot less to individual strength and a lot more to getting as many humans armed and combat ready as possible.
>>46262348
My only problem is that they removed breastplate.
i want my breastplate back
Power/toughness isn't relative to physical strenght/size
>>46266352
Is "muh equality" too triggering for you?
You don't play the shitty people in Magic (or Skyrim, or Dark Souls, or Fallout). You play the badasses.
>>46266409
Are you saying the beetle has more muscles than a demon?
>>46266365
Mmhmm, yep, that woman is definitely supposed to be as physically strong as a bear, oh silly Wizards. It's not like power equals combat effectiveness or anything. Her being a witch has nothing to do with how she fights, Wizards just messed up on the old #pl8 scale.
>>46266501
It does if it's a big enough beetle.
>>46265636
Everything they fight is way fucking stronger than them. By that logic humans in fantasy should just never win because the enemy is almost always bigger and/or stronger
>>46266619
Strength is not equal to power, and should only be used to compare a fight between different members of the same species in a physical brawl. Maybe the werewolves and vampires are too disorganized in a fight to win against humans.
>>46266747
Except without Avacyn they are winning. And even when she's around, they get victories. AND this isn't even the point. The point he was raising is that the greater strength of dudes compared to women is basically null on Innnistrad, as no man can physically overpower a vampire or a werewolf without the aid of magic, and the other threats like spirits and demons can't even be fucked with physically.
Try again.
Oh yeah, I can just smell the thread already.
>>46262348
>>46265936
>>46266352
Smoking fire, or whatever.
>>46266352
>for every badass thing that an army of women might accomplish, I already did it with 20 good men
Fixed that for you
>>46266814
>Except without Avacyn they are winning. And even when she's around, they get victories.
Yeah, so? I never said they "couldn't" win, we're not getting into power level rock paper scissors garbage.
>The point he was raising is that the greater strength of dudes compared to women is basically null on Innnistrad, as no man can physically overpower a vampire or a werewolf
That's still not a reason to have a significant majority of your society's women go out and freely get themselves killed. In the end this is still all about population regulation. Women have their place in dangerous settings and it is most certainly not on the battlefield.
>>46264804
>It reached crescendo for me
It reached "an increase"? Do you know what "crescendo" means?
I mean, this is just a semantic complaint, but every meaning of the word "crescendo" has to do with an ongoing increase, growth, swelling, heightening of volume, etc. The way you used it here is totally wrong.
>>46264863
That would honestly be pretty neat.
>>46264863
That's not a bad thought - prior to SOI, humans were finally resurgent and dominant after a massive slog through Dark Ascension.
So, expansion, rebuilding, taking back lost territory.
That'd leave a lot of opportunity for women - though I suppose any time of prosperity results in a lot more people starting families.
Almost a shame they don't do tabletop setting books for Magic - they'd probably be attached to a spectacularly shitty system, but we'd get a lot more depth.
>>46269463
Additional caveat: this is escapist fantasy.
So if a woman's escapist fantasy is to stay at home, mind the hearth, and sire children to try and keep a stable population, power to them. There are other fantasies that involve being a bad as fighter, a decadent vampire baroness, an angel, or a mad cultist. It's not fun for women to have a setting where they have one place set aside for them and none other. It wouldn't be fun for men if the shoe was on the other foot. It's understandable that it might take you out of your escapist fantasy when confronted with elements that don't conform to what a majority share of one gender might experience. However, all of the fun stuff to fantasize about is on the fringes, in the diversity of magical bulls hit and conflict running around. Diversity in fantasy protagonists just let's everyone in on the fun as opposed to whoever might be most logical to be in on the fun.
Tl;Dr It's not wrong to get a little butt rustled at diversity in heroic figures, but enjoying escapist fantasy requires strong suspension of disbelief.
>>46265456
>implying anybody is ever fucking safe on Innistrad
>be proud Innistrad man
>marry a qt Innistrad wife
>move to farm, wifey helps work in the field
>zombies eat wife, gg
>marry a new qt Innistrad wife
>have her stay in the house; it's for her own good
>geist of last wife burns the place down, gg
>have Avacynian clerics consecrate second wife's grave this time
>third wife stays inside, never leaves without supervision
>while walking outside together, we're attacked by a pack of werewolves
>wife is mauled, gg
>meanwhile Joe down the road's twins have been stolen by the Kindercatch or some shit because his wife turned out to be a witch
>fuck country life, I'm out of here
>move to one of the boroughs, it smells like shit but at least I won't die
>marry another wifey (gotta make kids like a good faithful couple am I right), keep her under my watch at all times
>she's abducted by vampires of her own free will to live a life of nighttime debauchery free from her demanding overprotective husband
>fuck this plane senpai
>>46263106
Actually feminine women in the background there too, rather than SJW strong wymyn fantasies
>>46266032
>cracked
Ech. If I were you, I'd mine that article for any good sources it uses. Leave that site out of it, it's basically buzzfeed.
>>46270845
They'd probably just use D20 or something. They're not going to invent a new systems when they already own Dungeons and Dragons.
>>46270845
Yeah. There are a ton of planes that have a lot of potential for tabletop settings.
It makes me really sad that most of the homebrew attempts at MTG RPGs have just been about playing teams of Planeswalkers, as though that will run into any challenges whatsoever.
One thing I've noticed recently that seems relevant to this thread is Wizard's seemingly newfound openness to printing beefcake. Is this a new thing? It seems to be.
Pic related is probably the most obvious example, but SoI had a few possible contenders as well. You had your open-shirt vampires, for starters, with Stormkirk Mentor and Insolent Neonate, and Might Beyond Reason has a guy busting his shirt out in a particularly muscular example.
I'm hesitant to include Deathcap Cultivator, but I feel like he at least deserves a mention for being shirtless for no real reason. I guess he's showing off the weird fungal scars, but shit, Innistrad is supposed to be cold. Every other card is people breathing steam and wearing heavy-ass coats. So I think he could count as well. I dunno, what do you guys think? Is this a thing, or am I just insecure enough in my sexuality to notice it more often than other people?
>>46271037
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Magic:_the_Gathering_RPG
This one doesn't look too bad - and the planeswalker aspect isn't too important to it. Haven't had a chance to try it though.
There's also GURPS, but while this pdf (and the other two that go with it) are a good start, the default magic system isn't at all appropriate, so you'd need to crack Thaumatology or RPM to make one that works better.
>>46271199
>>46271223
>>46271136
>They specified bare chested, barbarian style costume, and said the goblins should be mostly oblivious… “…Except for one. One male goblin has turned partially around in honest awe and star-struck admiration of this guy.” For the mood they said: “sometimes there is no recourse but to give in and stare at the sun,” and while this is a humorous concept they wanted it painted in a serious way; not too over-the-top silly.
It may be a part of trying to be more inclusive, which is unarguably a good thing in this case.
>>46270933
>I'd mine that article for any good sources it uses
I did, actually. Also, I honestly don't mind Cracked most of the time. If you think it's "basically Buzzfeed", you've never been to Buzzfeed.
>>46271136
Better artists, better art direction. Plus, they're probably more aware that women and gays play their game and like shirtless dudes. Also, don't mention Deathcap Cultivator. The less that's said about that overpriced Elves of Deep Shadow wannabe the better. A two mana manadork is not worth mentioning.
>>46271327
Who painted it? Also, that's a male goblin? I assumed it was female because it had less Jew nose.
>>46271199
>>46271223
>>46271264
>GURPS
>>46271199
>>46271223
>>46271264
Seems like a workable system for representing Mana. I think generally the magic system might work better by letting people just get a handful of abilities to represent spells pulled from their Mana reserves.
Most mages in MTG are fairly specialized in terms of magical schools.
>>46271380
>I did, actually.
Wait, so did you wind up listing some of those sources twice? That doesn't seem like it makes a lot of sense. Hey, it's your list though.
Why would "better artists" mean more beefcake, though? The rest sounds right.
And buddy, 2-mana mana dorks are all we're gonna get for a while. Although now that I noticed he's a rare, I have to say that is pretty bad. Damn. They could have at least made him a bear. In terms of stats, I mean.
>>46271447
Some of them, probably.
>Why would "better artists" mean more beefcake, though?
Because pic related doesn't turn me on.
>>46271447
I actually kind of like that common 1 drop mana dork that requires you tap something else. Yeah, it's not gonna be as good as others, but it does lead to some interesting things.
I can see him being useful in squeezing out more small creatures by tapping those with summoning sickness.
>>46271380
>GURPS
And?
The entire point of GURPS is its easy adaptability for settings that don't have systems.
>>46271400
Yeah. The Styles document is an okay stab at limiting the general default magic spell list to fit, but otherwise something like Ritual Path Magic or Sorcery with custom paths would likely fit better.
>>46271380
Oh, sorry - I forgot the link:
http://originalmagicart.com/art-in-focus-enthralling-victor-by-winona-nelson/
>>46271632
This article is great.
>>46271447
>And buddy, 2-mana mana dorks are all we're gonna get for a while.
2-drop mana dorks can be good. They just have to be really good.
>>46273393
Yeah, it's fine if they want to make mana Dorks at 2 mana now, but they need to actually make them worth 2 mana instead of printing Llanowar Elves with 1 extra power.
It's like the problem with counterspells or burn spells now as well. They're clearly against printing cheap versions of them, but if they want them to be more expensive, they at least need to make them efficient.
>>46262348
I'm tired of seeing this thread.
