Previous Thread: >>46192683
http://pastebin.com/gsYUFPGD
How have you been presenting the antagonistic half of your splat's population? That means VII/Belial's Brood, the Pure, the Seers/Banishers/Scelesti, Pandorans, Privateers, etc
>inb4 fagness
Chronicles of Fagness.
>>46232757
>An Awakened teen would be a nightmare. The ability to alter reality is scary for an adult, no less an unstable, inexperienced child.
I know, right? Like, I'd play the character as having been discovered and taken under the tutelage of a Pentacle Master pretty much right away, to keep them from getting into too much trouble (and control how much they learn so that they aren't actually released from their apprenticeship until they're close to 18 at least) but they'd still be pretty far from well adjusted - and therefore perfect PC material!
>>46232800
>>46232830
>>46232757
>>46232933
No it's fucking not, in fact in all the chronicles I run the characters MUST be teens and the setting is always highschool.
Fucking old people.
>>46232933
>Awakened Teens
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkElfR_NPBI
>>46232933
I would imagine practically every Path but Obrimos could be effectively catalysed for teenagers.
Mastigos for suffering edgelords and "you don't understand me Dad".
Thyrsus for the gallons and gallons of of hormones.
Acanthus for their mechant for massive changes and challenging of norms.
Moros for their first forays into the subject of Death and existential horror.
>tfw Mummy
>>46232997
You know, I just realized that I've never had a CofD campaign yet that was explicitly around teens in high school. Everyone's been a professional adult or a slacker adult.
>>46233069
Mummy's (Mummies?) are stronk, I'm in a mixed splat game with one and he can do so much shit.
>>46233063
Obrimos for honor student, star quarterback, and prom king who volunteers for his church.
>>46233123
Mummies is the plural. You never add an apostrophe S to make something plural.
>>46233106
>I just realized that I've never had a CofD campaign yet that was explicitly around teens in high school.
Likely because the CofD is a mature personal horror setting, and not some anime fantasy.
>>46233123
The Arisen really have no place in a crossover game. They're either hideously overpowered, slightly stronger than a mortal, or dead.
>>46233063
>>46233130
Obrimos teen tired of dealing with the emo crap of everyone else
>>46233182
In a fight between a newly-awakened mummy and a loud demon, who wins?
>>46233218
The Arisen can literally call down a meteor to strike the Demon with no resistence roll, and can come back from the dead at least ten times.
>>46233182
In an erp between a newly-awakened mummy and a loud demon, who tops?
>>46233163
You could do teens in a CofD game, it'd just be more YA horror than regular horror. I'd be down with that as a diversion from my regular CofD stuff.
>>46233130
Fair enough.
How is that catalysed though?
I sadly still don't get what kind of things might trigger the Mystery Play of an Obrimos-to-be?
>>46233266
>I sadly still don't get what kind of things might trigger the Mystery Play of an Obrimos-to-be?
Any crisis or affirmation of faith.
>>46233249
The Demon is almost invariably younger and so according to yaoi law must bottom.
Bonus points if the Arisen uses Blessed Is The God-King to manifest golden flesh and an animal head.
>>46233266
Remember that the Obrimos' Arcana govern truth and the laws of the universe; anything where they brush up against the unflinching nature of the cosmos or uncover a great deception is likely to spark it, as is anything to do with raw power or unshakeable faith.
>>46233305
Of course, statistically a Mummy is more likely to be Arisen or Shuankhsen than Deceived and the Deceived almost never share their arts, so the chances of coming across that power are very slim.
>>46233371
Well, sure, but I was making a point. Even without using any Utterances, a freshly-awakened Arisen can burn a single Pillar point to add +4 to her Strength until the end of the scene and can easily have Affinities that allow for Lethal damage with Brael attacks. At full Sekhem, Utterances to allow for pillars of flame, summoned Cthonic horrors, and asteroid impacts are all available.
>>46233305
Fuck me, that's insane.
>>46233481
Granted, that's the most powerful ability for the Mummy antagonist splat, and is only usable if the target's true name is known, but still.
I kind of think that the Demon Translation Guide completely botched the Torment-affecting-Lore conversion. They changed it to "the number of successes on your evocation roll has to exceed your Torment score to not use the high-Torment effect," which makes getting it way too likely.
>>46233512
Now if you wanted a game where that kind of power was way more common and everyone got the chance to do True Name stuff, you want Mummy the Resurrection.
>>46233481
For contrast, a much more available power.
>>46233550
I saw that and was wondering about that. Do you think just having it be the other way around would fix it? I wasn't sure if that's how it was intended or if it was a mistake that never got caught.
>>46233754
It wasn't a mistake in making the guide, there was a sidebar talking about it. I think they possibly misread the original Fallen book, though.
The version I'd use instead would be "lowest success number=Torment-(dice modifier)-2." That way, if you have a dice modifier of 0 and a Torment of 6, a success roll of 8 will trigger the effect, which I believe is what was intended in Fallen.
>want to play a double agent in Mage
How do I stop some nosy jackass with Mind magic from ruining my shit?
>>46233885
Shielding of Mind
I'd recommend making it give a Contest of Wills to read your true thoughts, and otherwise letting you choose what your thoughts read as at the time of reading
>>46233885
MIND MUST DEFEAT MIND.
How much essence can an ephemeral being spend per turn?
>>46233885
In 2e, now that Prime is also the Arcana of Truth, you'll need to worry about mages with proficiencies in both Mind and Prime.
It's VERY hard to be a double agent in mage society
>>46233943
Remember that mages are always aware when they engage in a Contest of Wills. Even if they don't win the contest, they know something is up.
>>46234021
As much as they damn well please, pretty much.
>>46234069
Wasn't there a Legacy that kinda specialized in that sorta thing?
Hey guys.
If you were going to stat up the NPCs from Bloodlines, what Generation would you set for the following PCs:
Maximillian Strauss
Jeanette and Therese Voerman
V.V.
Nines Rodriguez
Damsel
>>46234450
7th
10th
12th
10th
11th
>>46231010
The pure only have about a 10% lead on the forsaken, population wise, now. They don't grossly outnumber them anymore.
>>46234959
They really shouldn't have any lead. Otherwise, why not just call the game Werewolf: the Pure and run with that?
>>46234993
Because who gets to be the protagonist of the game isn't determined by who has the highest population demographic. Forsaken 2e's more about hunting, but the Forsaken are still the legacy of the few that made the hard but necessary choice in a world where everyone else wanted the path of least resistance.
>>46235095
I... honestly, I think the Pure have a better story. I'm not saying they're the good guys, but I prefer the story about avenging Father Wolf and fixing the world that was than the story about maintaining the world in its crappy, unbalanced state. The latter is what Seers do.
>>46235227
Presuming they're doing anything like "fixing" the world is a pretty big if.
Returning something to a prior state is not always fixing; and a lot of the time confusing "pristine" for "better" causes more problems than it ever solves.
If there was even one Pure tribe who was like "Yeah the old way sucked, the current way sucks, let's find a new way that doesn't involve everyone sucking so hard" you might have something.
>>46235364
Do any Forsaken tribes say that?
>>46235227
>Fixing the world
>The Pure
I don't think you really know what you're talking about.
>>46235396
literally the Iron Masters' entire ethos.
>>46235489
Ehn. It's not like humans have managed the spirit world well; there's not a hell of a lot to learn from them.
Before you ask, yes, it was tha/tg/uy's fault.
>>46235515
Iron Masters are about experimentation, lateral thinking & revolutionary thinking tempered with caution. They're way beyond "human shit rules."
Red Wolf expects them to be adaptable & willing to embrace new modes of thinking.
>>46235575
cool i used the same word thrice :/
>>46235227
Then you can play the game where The Pure are the protagonists: Werewolf: the Apocalypse.
>>46235227
As far as I can tell, even if it were possible, it would be a nightmare if the pure managed to bring Pangaea back. Without Father Wolf it would pretty much be impossible to guard the Border Marches properly.
>>46236226
Isn't there a Pure lodge somewhere trying to find enough of Father Wolf's bones--i.e. Corpus--to resurrect him with a massive dose of Essence?
>>46233885
Well, I would expect you could bolster your willpower with Mind, and you could probably make a fake 'surface mind' or some shit with three dots.
What does Death cover aside from ghost related stuff and shadows?
>>46234450
Hm, Strauss is a primogen in a pretty major city, but they don't really show you his capabilities, just that he has a bunch of other crazies at his house. And he was only Embraced in the nineteenth century... I'd go for eighth. The Voremans are tenth, VV is eleventh, Nines should be ninth (obvious reasons), and Damsel is probably twelfth or thirteenth.
>>46236605
Corpses
>>46236605
Cold and entropy are big ones.
Between entropy and literal death, a lot of Death perfecting/making spells can function as fraying/unmaking spells of other arcana.
So, what would you all like to see in the new VtM edition? I'd like to see some more on the whole Malkavain/Faerie thing.
>>46236734
>Malkavain/Faerie thing
Baphomet, no.
Please do not bring that eldritch ...THING here.
>>46236829
Come on, aren't you a little curious as to what they've been hinting at? I'm all for leaving some things dead and buried (The Tal'Meh'Ra, for example, never went to the Underworld, that's ridiculous, shut up) but they brought it up in Lore of the Clans. I want resolution! Preferably in the whole pick-from-multiple-scenarios way.
>>46236939
I want the Post-Gehenna thing to still be true
Storytime CofD/WoD gen. This is actually the story of the mortals game I'm in, and have been in for... 3 sessions? I feel like I wanna say 4 but I'm not sure. All of it blends together because it was so good.
I'm playing Lane, a androgynous punk from Detroit that has hopped on a greyhound back home to meet up with a good friend who seemingly disappeared from the face of the earth one year in highschool. Lane quickly meets up with Gwyn, an occultist who as a kid didn't really realize how correct about things they were (or weren't, there is plenty a story of chasing bigfoot or the Ashe Lake Monster), and Jesse, a dork who's had the gall to go about a normal, mundane life till now.
Lane, Gwyn and Jesse all got the same email from the Enigmatic, long lost friend Alyson. Alyson was a sort of grounding figure during out highschool lives, and we all know something about her that only us knew. Something embarrassing as hell, and potentially life ending if it got out. But thats not here nor there, since we've not spilled our beans about it and it might not even tie into the plot properly, just being a bit of trivia.
Lane, Gwyn and Jesse all meet up in the same hotel, the one that was known back home for being a shithole, but cheap. The kind of place that broke highschoolers go to after prom to fuck, or that drug dealers might stay in for a night or two while waiting for a deal. That kinda thing. We all meet up, Lane exchanges choice words with the old bastard behind the counter who still remembers him for the state of his room after prom night, and they all head up to find Alyson's room. When we get there, its partially open.
Coming inside we all had the same thought: something was wrong. Lane pushed on through, looking around and actually finding her, laying partially swollen in a bathtub overflowing with water, and with a ladder of cuts going up and down her arm. Even in his grief though, Lane /knows/ something is wrong. cont
>>46236975
Jesus you three didn't even fucking change names that hard.
Would there be places in Mage Arcadia filled with bodies if water?
>>46236975
We find the first piece of info that confirmed foul play shortly after we called the police, because even as a punk from a city where police are stereotypically the worst, Lane understands there is an order of things to do, having a bit of knowledge in security (due to his criminal past) and the fact that he's needed to do some work the police/first responders should have done before. Lane notices a credit card with scratches on it next to the door, and he found the lockpick. Later on, Lane realizes that Alyson couldn't have slit her wrists like that. The lines were perfectly straight and suicide was more successful down the road instead of across the street.
So Lane, Gwyn and Jesse all file out after giving statements and helping the police do their jobs before they arrive on scene, and they all head off. Lane's poor, so he tries to subtly keep the party together so he won't have to spend the little money he has on a room for a while. In the end, the party decides to go to the house that his parents raised him in, and were now renting out as a vacation home. We get a number of flashbacks there, all of things running around as kids, having fun, and so on.
At this point we're pretty sure OOC that Alyson is trying to communicate with us. Not IC (since Gwyn has been spending the past few years trying to get "mentally healthy" and Jesse and Lane are clueless), but we decide to take things into our own hands to get the characters doing something to facilitate that communication: We get drunk and play with an Ouija board. NOTHING CAN POSSIBLY GO WRONG WITH THIS IDEA, RIGHT?
We start up, and start goofing around, and then shit gets real almost immediately. Alyson responds, but any time we try and get an answer out of her, it starts to move like crazy. Lane finally asks who killed her, with Jesse's help since Gwyn is going into a relapse (using her supernatural/occult merits), we get an answer: Y. O.... *seemingly fighting* U.
Cont
>>46237089
The faerie glade with a stream and pond is a classic.
>>46237052
get the fuck over it nerd, we're having fun
>>46237207
How about oceans?
>>46237217
get over my dick
>>46237201
After that incident, we went to sleep. We all needed it, we all were grieving, and we all were drunk.
The next morning everyone wakes up without problem, and then there is a ring at the door. A police officer. He never gives his name, a fact we didn't think about till afterwords.
Lane lets him in after a bit of his paranoia/mistrust of police officers, a thing that is common in his neighborhood, shown in the form of asking Jesse if he's allowed in. The officer sits down after seeming to try and antagonize Lane as much as possible, but Lane is keeping his cool. We give all our info again, and then the police officer tells us that the investigation is being treated as a suicide, despite BLATANTLY not being a suicide. After he leaves (Jesse kicked him out) we realize "wow, this guy was fishy". Lane realizes in retrospect that the words on his badge were more like scribbles, and that the man had a dry uniform on while it was wet/raining outside. Alongside the fact that he didn't seem to drive a car there. Having no one to beat up, they all confirm that the guy was a fake and head to the real police to share the evidence with them, and then afterwords go and check on Gwyn's "desire to sightsee".
After leaving the police with the evidence and with a bit of newfound paranoia, we start driving to Ashe Lake. And then Lane notices that we're being followed...
And then Jesse decides that he's suddenly a fucking badass at driving his fucking mom-mobile of a van and does a u-turn so hard that the fuckers tailing us crash into a tree and we lose them. Much cheering for this guy, who is turning out to be pretty badass normal, is had, and then we return to Ashe Lake.
The lake leads us to a fire trail, which leads us to a tiny shack that we all seem to have a very, very vivid flashback over.
We've been here before. This was ours.
cont
>>46237052
Don't bring IRC drama in here.
>>46237354
Sure, why not.
So long as it maintains the symbolic aspects of the path Acanthus, you could have it entirely underwater.
The Supernal realms don't really have "locations".
>>46237354
Every environment you can think of probably exists, yes, as long as there's a story centered around it featuring a non-human being(mermaids, in the case of an ocean)
>>46237468
Does f-list count as IRC? But there's no drama you nerd.
>>46237528
>F-List
...ugh
>>46237587
Can't stop degenrates from liking WoD games man, you know that
>>46237423
We get there, and Lane tries to pick the lock to the shack as the others go around looking at... things. For things. They think they remember things, and it turns out they did. It was our stuff they found. A lighter with Lane's initials was what I remember, but there were other things. Lane, in the meantime, fails at lockpicking, and just decides to shoulder the door to knock it down and get in. It works, and with a shitty lighter from a gas station he looks around while the others turn on the old generator.
Inside is basically every mid-teen's fantasy for a hideout/clubhouse. It had everything, furniture, lighting, an elevator to a roof, a second floor with beds, a million bookshelfs, and Alyson's diary.
That was what confirmed it, and triggered an even more vivid flashback of the place in full working order. We found the diary inside the wall, and no sooner did we open it than we found one of the answers we were looking for: Alyson, laying nude on her back with a cloth draped over her stomach. There were two men without masks in the photo, but at least 5 total. The two men we recognized: Reese, a crimeboss from Detroit, and Westlake, the son and now inheritor of a powerful CEO's company. Two men that no doubt were to blame for her death. Various states of denial, anger and panic were cut short though when the three heard a car door.
Now, Lane at this point was a street fighter. He knew how to fight like his life was on the line at all times, and he knew how to use dirty tricks and tactics to win a fight. The GM had previously allowed me to upgrade my Street Fighting 3 to Street Fighting 5, since it wasn't used yet and therefore was in a state of flux. No one really knew just how good he was at kicking ass.
This is important, since the two men that were closing, and fast, were animal masked and bearing weapons with intent to kill if need be. They wanted the diary. Lane wanted to make them beg for their lives.
Cont
>>46237587
our game is perfectly pure and chaste, don't worry
I hope DaveB can give us some examples of 2e Wisdom breaking points
Is it ok that is our games we don't use the term "Mage" but "Awakened"?
>>46237792
>Vampires call themselves Kindred
>Werewolves call themselves Forsaken or Uratha
>Mummies call themselves Arisen or Deathless
Gee anon, you tell me.
>>46237678
Lane props the door up to the shack again so they'll have to move it if they want in, all while hiding just besides the doorway. He waits for the first one to come in, the tiger masked man with a knife, and then pounces. The man didn't know what hit him. He's used as a human shield against his buddy's reaction, ending up with him getting a number of ribs broken with one swing of a tire iron. Lane follows this up by punching the guy in the other side of his ribs, breaking one and knocking him to his knees. Fucker didn't know when to give up though, and ends up trying to stand near Lane, only to have the rest of his ribs broken with a swift kick that was barely even a thought for him. At this point the guy has gone from "I'm gonna knife a bitch" to "OH JESUS FUCK I'M DYING" in 10 seconds flat, and the rooster masked man is having to square off against Lane. He takes a fist to the face before, OUT OF FUCKING NOWHERE, A CAR HITS HIS ASS, BREAKING HIS LEG AND KNOCKING HIM DOWN. Jesse ends the fight!
We get told by the cockfaced man that he was sent by Westlake to get the diary after he's smart enough to beg for his life. Fucker, however, decides shortly after that he'd have a great shot at taking on 3 people while practically crippled, and rolls a 1 on his chance die to deck Jesse, falling on his face and knocking him out. We collect the evidence, stabilize the asshats, load it up in their car, drive it to the main road, fuck up their car keys, and let the cops deal with them. We figure they'll have LOTS of fun behind bars in the hold where Alyson was beloved by everyone working there.
While that is happening, Gwyn decides that "fuck this normal person shit, shit's weird lets not pretend it isn't". So, she does the only thing rational and cuts her hair, dyes it brown, and dresses up like Alyson (to gain the Resonant condition towards her).
Cont
>>46237792
I for one am outraged.
>>46237792
Yeah that's fine, but you should called them 'Red-Pilled' Instead.
>>46237897
Gwyn has channeled Alyson, but something ELSE is there too. Partway through the thing, Gwyn gets possessed by SOMETHING, and starts to either try to Rape or Kill Jesse. Lane kicks into fight mode and tries to hold Gwyn still while they figure out what the fuck to do. This doesn't work, as the creature has buffed Gwyn to a certain point, but she gains control again not too long after Lane starts getting choked by her.
Despite the creature's possession, Gwyn seems gung ho on trying to channel Alyson again. Jesse and Lane both think this is either a terrible idea, or should at least wait till later. Jesse, however, got a moment of clarity out of the chokehold he was in, and Alyson showed him her old house where they went shortly after.
Everyone remembered it just being sold quickly after Alyson left, but we at this point figured that our memories weren't exactly reliable. The thing was partially burned down, but that didn't stop us. Jesse, who was fed up with Gwyn's shit (still trying to channel Alyson) heads to check the barn while we go to the basement (because its always the basement, what do you think this is, not world of darkness?). We find it padlocked, not recent but something neither of us remember. Probably before the fire. Lane makes quick work of it and Gwyn and Lane head down to find Candles, a summoning circle and lots of memories.
There, in the past, we summoned Gabriel, angel of secrets. What this means, or even how a bunch of kids did it, is beyond us, but we'll know eventually. We have to know eventually.
Gwyn finally hits the spot, and Alyson assumes control for a time. We get intimate in a TOTALLY PURE AND CHASTE WAY NOPE THIS IS A CHRISTIAN WOD GAME ONLY VIOLENCE AND MURDER, NO SEXUAL THEMES AT ALL, to help her maintain presence, and then she gives us the answers she actually can.
cont
>>46235227
>>46235364
>>46235467
Yeah, I'm pretty well under the impression that the Pure would be killing everyone and ruining everything if they managed to smash the shadow world into the real world. It's not an achievable goal, and if they did succeeded it would ruin everything.
>>46233247
>>46233305
Shit like "wasn't actually there" and some seriously capable base-reality-fucking can help "Shift Consequences" in favor of the unchain gone loud as well. Demons are extremely dangerous in the field of "NO U", and are doing so with direct manipulation of the univeral .ini
The real winner is whoever got the fuck out of town before instigating the fight between the two, and the losers are whoever got caught in the crossfire when the god machine goes red alert.
>>46237792
Mages call themselves the "Wise".
>>46238170
Exactly, call the red-pilled.
>>46238034
Lane: "Who killed you girl?"
Alyson: "You know that already, its Westlake, Reese and those Circle of Thorns bastards to do god knows what and undo what we did back then"
Lane: "What did we do back then?"
Alyson: "Magic has its rules, I can't tell you that."
Lane: "Do we need to try and summon Gabriel again?"
Alyson: "Secrets won't help us now"
Lane: "We'll stop them"
Alyson: "I know you will. Take care of Jesse and Gwyn for me, and let them take care of you"
And then she left, leaving both Lane and Gwyn bawling for a moment in each other's arms as they realize, once again, that Alyson is dead, is not coming back, and that there was so much more going on. They did something a long time ago to stop something these Circle of Thorns bastards were doing, and it cost them their memories. It nearly cost their friendships. It cost one of their lives.
Jesse, meanwhile, was in the barn, where he found Alyson's old dog who refused to die. It got hit by a car, hit by a wrench, likely shot at least once, but never died. The poor thing was locked in the barn with only a bitching ass car to keep it company, and was hungry as hell. Jesse manages to calm it though, and promises it food. Leaving from there, we all find ourselves in front of a pair of wooden crosses. It was where we buried Alyson's parents. Where Lane originally swore vengeance on the Circle. Her parents died, asphyxiated by hanging while the house burned around them with the symbol carved into their stomachs. We buried them, and then shortly after we did something we forgot.
The game ended tonight on Lane swearing vengeance, Jesse trying to get that car in order again, and Gwyn being emotionally worn out and hungry and hell.
All in all a story I am damn glad to be a part of.
>>46233305
>Mummies can specifically outdo Archmages
>>46238193
Sounds like a game for GIRLS an big dumb nerd faces!
How are two Mages marrying each other viewed by Mage society?
>>46233943
>I'd recommend making it give a Contest of Wills to read your true thoughts, and otherwise letting you choose what your thoughts read as at the time of reading
Reminder that Mages automatically know when they enter a Clash of Wills, so even if they fail they'll know those thoughts they are reading are bullshit.
>>46238350
Oh yeah? Well you're a poopyface!
>>46235227
The Pure want to "fix" the world into a Hunter's Paradise that would be a waking hellscape for every other splat, and especially normal humans.
>>46238455
Well you're a dumb Get of Fenris lover!
>>46238489
... this could be a neat apocalypse-type scenario
I'd play a bunch of plucky nonwoofs in a fight to survive against woof tyranny
>>46238418
"Lucky", in that they don't have to constantly lie to their spouse, at least if you go by what's stated in the Guardians book.
(Unless, of course, one of them is a Guardian and the other isn't)
>>46238418
Mage society as a whole would probably be ambivalent.
It's not like they're going to be at any more risk of sharing occult secrets to one another than they would be before marraige, or if they were merely part of the same cabal.
There would of course be people who had feelings one way or another (I would imagine most Mastigos would feel unhappy with engaging in any form of personal binding or Oath).
>>46238501
Why wouldn't I like best tribe?
>>46238418
Like any other emotionally-founded alliance between two mages?
What are you looking for here? Consilium culture, outside of their magic and Orders in particular, is going to come down to the personal opinions and cultures of the foremost in that particular Consilium.
>>46238539
Because you're not talking about the Bone gnawers, duh!
>>46238555
I'm not talking about second best tribe, I'm talking about best tribe!
>>46238418
>>46238525
>mage spouses
>one of them is a Guardian and the other isn't)
Awkward...
Before long, they'll both need mage divorce attorneys.
I would not want to be the hierarch who has to decide the separation and distribution of magical marital property.
>>46238826
unless the woman isn't a bitch like modern American women. Divorce is unlikely
>>46239277
I see our unfriendly neighborhood autistic social outcast is back.
I've been reading up a lot on the Gargoyles and how the work. I'm extremely confused on their signature discipline, Visceratika, according to the White Wolf Wikia it was developed in the Victorian Age. However in the V20 book it says that this is an integral part of a Gargoyle and has been since their creation. The Dark Ages 20th book makes no mention of this discipline, in fact it even brings up giving the gargoyle one of their original disciplines (ex. Nos+Gangrel gets Obfuscate)
How should one handle this kind of thing?
Side note: As a rough estimate, how many of these original gargoyles are free, also, the Dark Ages book implies that they can sire their own childer, is there any backing to this?
>>46239554
>VtM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V76d6_04LLE
I have no clue which Splat this would best for.
Since mage archmasters no longer have a traditional Path, what perspective do view the Supernal World with Mage Sight? Do they see everything available from all five Paths, or something unique to each archmaster?
Do they automatically use all Arcana they possess with Mage Sight without needing to spend Mana for extra Arcana?
>>46239744
Archmages treat every arcane as ruling so it would be free to use all of them.
Starting a Demon game. Nervous. REALLY nervous actually, it's my first time GMing anything.
Should I be giving the players the Chronicles of Darkness rulebook, or nWoD 1e and the God-Machine Rules Update? Does it make a difference?
Any tips for like...How to run a game they won't hate? Half of them are new to demon, the other half has been in a very successful, but very houseruled game so they have all these expectations and it's freaking me out.
>>46239874
>it's my first time GMing anything.
Well remember above all else Don't Panic.
>>46239889
That didn't answer my main question.
>>46240019
It was just a bit of general advice. Could you tell me what sort of houserules were in place on the game the second group were in?
>>46240172
It's 30 years into the future, there's no masquerade except for Demons, Mummies, and Beasts. There are two God-Machines, a Higher, benevolent one, and the one the players fell from, a malevolent, Lower one (the ST is big into gnosticism), and covers are played fast and loose. Like you don't lose Cover unless you really fuck up and generally the players are showered with XP so they become gods pretty quick.
She's big into rapid escalation, and I'm afraid I can't match that pace.
>>46233305
Urg.
Well, throw that one on the same pile as Excision. Whoever wrote that has no idea how archmages work.
>>46240412
Aww, it's ok. We all know mages are the best at everything, don't let those meany writers tell you otherwise.
>>46240435
Damn right. All crossover chapters should just be "Mage Supremacy!" in heading-1 font.
>>46240412
What's wrong with Excision?
Have you ever killed a vampire... on weed?
Dave give us 2e wisdom breaking points
>>46241056
Torched a whole shitload of Carthians once.
I can only imagine that many of them were stoned.
>>46241087
We'll get those when the book comes out.
>>46241176
So late 2017? Cool.
So I'm trying to understand exactly how Lairs work for physical travel and the Primordial Dream. Please correct me if I'm wrong on any of this.
Lairs have Chambers connected by Burrows, and unless an effort is made at least one Chamber will connect to the larger Hive/Primordial Dream of the 'area'.
Beasts can mentally switch to control their Horror in their Lair when physically in the real world, leaving their bodies mostly defenseless.
When in an area that shares a trait with their Lair, a beast can bring forth another trait and superimpose the Lair over the real world. This merges them with their Horror while it lasts and anyone who leaves the Chamber area during this time has physically entered the Beasts Lair and is stuck there.
Using Primordial Pathways a Beast can enter their Lair from anywhere, but locations that match it are much easier. When using this to leave the Lair the same applies.
By my reading of this a Beast with an underwater Lair has access to every lake and river and sea in the world, via going back and forth from the real world to their Lair?
How would other beings get in/out via Be My Guest?
How would the Horror act around someone the Beast has invited into their Lair, when the Beast isn't communing and in direct control?
>>46232773
So I had this crazy idea /CofD/. I want to use VII in my new VtR chronicle, but I'm not really satisfied with any of the versions presented in their book. But I had a brainstorm based on something someone said in one of these threads a while back.
What if VII were the Tremere? As in, the Mage Legacy - but not JUST them. Rather, VII is a small Covenant that's made up of an alliance between the Tremere Liches and a group of Kindred, likely a special Bloodline that could induct members of any clan (thus the number 7 - there are five clans/paths; as the Suspire says, the 6th is the Blood (the Tremere Bloodline) and the 7th is the Soul (the Tremere Legacy).
Would that sound interesting? I'm not going for a "Mage Supremacy" thing here - this is for a VtR game, after all. In the Covenant the Mage and Kindred members would be equals; while some of the elder Liches would likely be more powerful than the elder Kindred, the Liches would be far outnumbered by the Kindred members of the Covenant so in practice they control most of the Covenant's activity.
Why are they so reclusive? Because all of them are Diablarists. They're Gift (which I'm still working on, and could actually use some advice on) would be something that helps them hide that fact, and potentially give them some extra powers that would work off of it - likely some kind of Ritual Discipline that required Diablerie and allows them to replicate some effects of Supernal Magic.
What is a McDonalds like in the Shadow?
>>46241688
Franchise conformity, it's exactly the same as one in the real world.
>>46241698
So, Franchise Conformity+Meat=???
Are there any examples of human-spirit hybrids in CofD.
>>46241861
Spirit Claimed, core book and Werewolf core
>>46241861
Purified from "Immortals" are pretty much exactly that as well
>>46233063
>I would imagine practically every Path but Obrimos could be effectively catalysed for teenagers.
Actually, a lot of people have a religious awakening in their Teens, when they realize the world is bigger than they thought.
Which is why organised religion is pretty big on the teenage rites.
This awakening, is of course, not necessarily towards something, it can also be against something. Annoying anti-theist teens, spring to mind.
>>46242066
Purified are people, not spirits
>>46239554
Viseratika was developed later on after the Gargoyles started actually embracing. You'll find that the precursor to that discipline can actually be found in Dark Ages V20 in the rituals section. A lot of the powers of viseratika actually were enchanted into gargoyles and over time the gargoyles began to naturally grow those "rituals" innately.
>>46241861
From least-to-most hybrid:
Possessed
Claimed
Purified
Hosts
Werewolves
Do dice rolls for social maneuvering have circumstance penalties and bonuses?
eg. if you're rolling to seduce someone but you haven't showered in a week, does your dice pool take a -2 penalty?
Likewise, if you're rolling to trick them into giving you a password, do fake ID documents give you a +1, or whatever?
The system rules don't mention it, so it reads that you just roll your dice pool and success unlocks a Door
>>46242611
Yes.
Also, how do they not mention it? There are many things that give social penalties and bonuses, and doesn't the core mechanic list situational bonuses or penalties as well?
>>46242659
>Also, how do they not mention it?
Social Maneuvering section just says roll dice pools, mentions nothing of situational modifiers
>>46239874
Demon is one of the hardest games to run well. All your players *should* need is the DtD core book.
As for how you should run it, it depends heavily on your group. Do they prefer fast-paced, action-oriented games or do they like slower ones with focus on intrigue and investigation?
>>46242673
Yeah, but the dice pool is inherently going to be modified. That's just part of the game.
>>46242752
>All your players *should* need is the DtD core book.
Actually, Demon doesn't include the core rules, just the GMC update (which technically requires the nWoD 1e rules). If anyone has ever played WoD, though, you generally won't need to bother.
>>46242797
Cheers
>>46240412
Would an Archmages even HAVE a True Name that a Decieved could even latch on to? I'm pretty sure since Archmages no longer exist in a traditional sense, none of that applies. I always thought that was a very silly part of a very impressive (if super niche) power.
>>46240412
>Well, throw that one on the same pile as Excision. Whoever wrote that has no idea how archmages work.
Huh? The Level 7 Imperial Practice of Excision from Imperial Mysteries? That doesn't make any sense?
>>46239826
>Archmages treat every arcane as ruling so it would be free to use all of them.
Yeah. However, if archmasters no longer have a Path because of their Golden Road, what perspective do they see when they view the Supernal World?
For instance, would a formerly Mastigos archmaster still see Pandemonium with their Mage Sight, just with all their Arcana automatically active, or would their Mage Sight see a world unique to the individual archmaster that incorporates the symbols of all Paths (and more)?
>>46243328
I think he means "That's exactly what Excision does".
Or possibly, "You can use Excision to remove the effect."
>>46243383
Perhaps they see the true supernal.
After all they have been their in body and every arcane its at their beck and call. So I would not be a stretch that they see every path "unique" thing interacting with one another.
>>46243328
>>46243443
I think Dave was referring to a different "Excision" than the Practice from Imperial Mysteries.
Excision also a anti-mage Tactic from Hunter that basically stops a mage from using magic by giving him a lobotomy. Since magic is part of a mage's soul, not brain, the Tactic conflicts with Mage setting and rules.
>>46243524
I hope we'll see a short update at some point in the near future to make Imperial Mysteries 2e compatible. Although I believe it would have been a great addition to Signs of Sorcery, Dave's spoilers do not indicate we'll see this included.
IM was one of the best Mage books which expanded the Mage cosmology and answered so many questions, and it would be a shame if most of it didn't quickly transition to the new edition.
>>46243595
This anon is probably right. The lobotomy-that-will-remove-magic is flagrantly not how Mage works.
>>46243731
You have to imagine an imago to cast spells right? So if the lobotomy removes that ability then you have magic but are effectively unable to use it, right?
>>46243782
Sure, but at that point you're less "cutting out the magic" and more "leaving a drooling fleshbag," and if you're willing to do that you may as well just kill the guy, because you already have.
>>46240412
So what should the ability not work in the first place or would an archmaster die like everyone else.
After all if the Archmage was sloppy enough to let that mummy get his true name he beed to be killed off.
>>46243828
>Sure, but at that point you're less "cutting out the magic" and more "leaving a drooling fleshbag,"
Not necessarily, if they just figured out where to stab to kill their ability to picture a spell but not anything else
>>46243595
>>46243731
Of course, this just leads to the big question: why should a Hunter writer have to be bound by the rules and settings of other lines? When the other lines save for Beast treat crossover as an optional afterthought (and even for Beast it's only slight) why not have lobotomies remove magic? It's not like you have to make magic using enemies in Hunter using only the Awakening core.
>>46243850
Spoilers: The ability to picture a spell is part of the ability to picture anything else. It's literally just making a decision; cut that out and you have a creature that can't make decisions.
>>46243862
The thing about this is when Hunter fans start applying their logic to other games.
And when they complain about how Hunters ought to be immune to Lunacy and The Lie.
>>46243915
They should be immune to the lie. They are not normal humans, they have a step 5 template so are not sleepers because they have inherent inhuman abilities.
>>46243915
BUT THERE PEOPLE, THERE MADE FROM PEOPLE!!!!!
>>46243915
That's a problem with the fandom, then, and not with the book. They're falling into the same trap as assuming that their setting is the same for the other games, like the unironic Mage Cosmology Supremacy people.
It seems like the real problem is treating CofD games like a unified setting as opposed to a set of tabletop legos.
>>46243938
I agree that groups like the Lucifuge, and the Malleus Maleficarum should be immune, since they have powers of their own, and thus qualify as supernatural creatures.
But The Union? Network 0? Aegis Kai Doru?
Nope.
>>46243938
Really what are these "Innate Abilities" All these hunter seem to have. Because all I see are people.
>>46243938
Most Hunters (with some Tier 3 exceptions) are normal mundane humans. However, if they were immune to Lunacy or the Quiescence, they would need to supernatural. They cannot be both.
Within a self-contained Hunter game, you can of course do whatever you want. However, Hunter cannot just disregard or overrule fundamental setting and mechanics of other gamelines in the context of crossover without massive houserules.
>>46243998
Every geoup that give an innate ability are sleepwalkers. Like the ones you mentioned and a few others like Task Force: Vanguard.
But not those spirit possessed hippies.
>>46244001
>>46244043
>Most Hunters (with some Tier 3 exceptions) are normal mundane humans.
>>46244043
They need something supernatural about them but they don't need to be a template to do that. All they need is take a supernatural merit.
>>46244068
You know what would also make someone "more than the average human on the street"? Having 4 dots in a skill. Should everyone with Science 4 be immune to the Lie too?
>>46244068
That's not the same as them being supernatural creatures.
>>46244090
So the book is wrong and you're right?
Average mage fan in a nutshell
>>46244068
You know whats makes them more then the average human on the streets. The fucking willing to hunt an kill monsters, and the training to do so.
Which Splat would work best for someone like Swamp Thing?
>>46244099
No you're just a fucking idiot
If a Hunter wants to be immune to the Lie and Luinacy, they should take the Sleepwalker Merit. They don't get that innately, and unless they join one of the Tier 3 covenants that give a supernatural ability or take a Supernatural Merit, they're 100% mundane Sleepers.
Literally nothing implies a Hunter should be immune to the Lie, RAW. Nothing.
>>46244141
Changeling or Beast
>>46244099
Mostly I'm a Werewolf fan, really.
But do you mean to say that the moment someone decides to take up the Vigil, they become supernatural creatures?
>>46244099
What makes Hunters more than regular people on the street are as follows:
-Their incredible ability to Risk Willpower
-Their deep knowledge of how to use their professional abilities to aid in The Vigil
-The Prayer (if you use C&C) or the various Tier 3 Endowments.
None of those in anyway justifies an immunity to The Lie. I don't understand why people want this, the fun of Hunter is being underpowered and still managing to pull off the impossible because the light must not dim. You don't need to be immune to The Lie to foil a Mage's plans, or gank them in their moment of weakness.
>>46244168
>You don't need to be immune to The Lie to foil a Mage's plans, or gank them in their moment of weakness.
Actually, it makes it harder. Since if you are a Sleeper, you'll seriously fuck with their magic.
>>46244168
In fact, NOT being immune to the Lie helps you fuck over a Mage more than being immune would, because just sitting in the corner of their Sanctum when they cast a spell is going to smack them with paradox risk, and you'll prevent anything they cast with a duration greater than Instant from lasting as long.
>>46244195
You still have breaking points for watching magic, being a sleepwalker does not change that.
But now the mage doesn't have to worry about paradox as much.
>>46244209
>you'll prevent anything they cast with a duration greater than Instant from lasting as long.
Dissonance doesn't begin to take effect until after the scene is over. This provides little benefit if you're dead or worse.
Paradox is also inconvenient, but hardly insurmountable. In fact, in 2e, Paradox will normally represent a mage supercharging their magic, and will be *bad* for their adversaries in a combat scenario, particularly if the mages release, rather than contain, the Paradox.
More importantly in this debate, the "Hunters are special snowflake humans" side often wants both immunity to supernatural conditions AND all the benefits to being human like Paradox. Arguments that Hunters should have their cake and eat it too are not particularly persuasive.
>>46244352
>Nasuverse wankery
>>46244365
>Paradox will normally represent a mage supercharging their magic
No. It will represent the mage losing control of their magic.
Where the hell did you get the idea that it was a super-charge of the spell from?
>>46244287
Both Sleepers and Sleepwalkers can over time get used to seeing most supernatural events and such incidents might not always trigger a breaking point. However, the Quiescence mandates that ALL Sleepers ALWAYS suffer a breaking point when witnessing obvious supernal magic AND their memories will be altered.
>>46244403
Most additional Paradox is generated from mages adding more Reach effects to their spells. Sleeper witnesses always generate a total of 1 additional Paradox die that can be easily eliminated with a dedicated tool, mana expenditure, etc.
Also note that when a mage generates Paradox and choose to release it, the effects are supposed to hurt everyone besides the mage. Paradox can be as lethal to Sleeper adversaries as anyone else.
>>46244158
>Beast
Pls no, there is NOTHING about Swamp Thing that makes him a Beast.
>Changeling
I can dig this, he's prolly got elements of all the Plant related Kiths and the Elemental Seeming.
I suppose he could also be a a Promethean, maybe ab Extrempore, his Wasteland causes plants to rapidly grow and overrun civilized areas, while his Disquiet makes people both lethargic and irritable towards things that would change their routines.
>>46244506
>Sleeper witnesses always generate a total of 1 additional Paradox die that can be easily eliminated with a dedicated tool, mana expenditure, etc.
No, a single Sleeper iirc adds 1 paradox die, a small group gives the entire roll 9-again, a larger group gives 8-again, and a crowd gives the rote quality.
>>46239657
Mages and Daemons?
Hey what arcana and dots do I need to see what moment in a persons life affects him the most currently.
Inspired by first episode 1 of ds9 Sisko tries to explain how linear time/existence to the prophets. Sisko always returns to the moment his wife dies thinking the prophets brought him there. In actuality Sisko himself was the cause of reliving his wifes death because that where he "exists".
>>46245357
Since 2e no longer has a covert / vulgar distinction, and spells need not inherently invoke any Paradox anymore, it's still only one die of Paradox that normally needs to be mitigated.
Simply, the Paradox risks of mages defending themselves against Sleeper Hunters is not particularly acute, can be mitigated without much difficulty, could potentially hurt the Sleepers as much as inconvenience the mages, and well worth it to quickly eradicate adversaries, particularly given the increase in power of the Arcana in 2e.
>>46245463
It would be a simple Mind spell, likely a Level 1 Knowing or Unveiling.
You could also probably achieve the same effect using Fate,
>>46245586
Wouldnt that be time if you searching for a moment in targets timeline
>>46245610
Time would probably also work.
When trying to ascertain information, the distinctions between Time and Fare are sometimes nebulous.
>>46239657
this is literally the OneSong
http://whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/OneSong
Do Mages agree upon what a ghost is or is it still debated?
>>46245786
They know, but they argue anyway because Mages are petty schoolchildren with magical autism
>>46245804
So are they souls of the dead or just echoes of a soul?
>>46245852
Ghosts are not souls.
>>46245852
Echoes of souls
>>46245852
They're explicitly not souls. Any moros can look at a ghost and tell it isn't. Hell, Ghosts suffer from a lot of the problems that come with being soulless.
The only thing in question is weather or not ghosts should be treated as people or as merely supernatural phenomena one can exploit at their whim.
>>46245866
How spooky.
>>46245524
That entirely dependent on the mages gnosis. Paradox is no longer 4-6 die at most, instead it will probably range some where at 1-4 Die PER OVERREACH.
It's not known actually how high the base paradox die is in 2E, Dave has kept that a secret.
>>46246349
There is no base paradox die, because there are no vulgar spells. Paradox is only rolled when you risk it for extra Reach or cast a spell that triggers quiescence in a Sleeper.
>>46246382
>more powerful and even their few meagre drawbacks cut back to essentially nothing
God bless that Dave, he's found a power-obsessed niche and he's running with it
>>46246349
>>46246382
And since the Arcana have generally received a boost in power and purview, it should normally be relatively easy for most mages to kill Sleepers without needing to use extra Reach at all.
>>46246382
It's worth mentioning that "I want to cast this now," and "I want to cast this at range" is going to use up all your Reach if you do it at your max level.
>>46246405
Considering that Hubris and the careless misuse of power are some of the primary themes of Mage, what you consider a problem, is actually a feature of the setting.
Paradox generally presents problems to innocent bystanders (and sometimes reality itself). The issue is whether mages care enough about them to limit themselves while spellcasting.
If you want a game on the lower end of the power scale, Dave indicated that the upcoming Deviant he's developing should fill that niche. There's also Hunter.
>>46246540
>oh no, people I don't care about died, woe is me
>oh wait, I can just rewind time so they never died
>god I fucking love being a mage
>>46246513
Do most mages really need more than instant casting of a spell that has no defense when dealing with Sleepers? Mages can also still cast at range without using a Reach, they just need to "throw" the spell.
You also forget that Rotes are cast with all the Reach available to a master of the Arcanum (and have Rote Mundras and don't cost Mana if non-Ruling). It is fair to assume that most experiences mages have an offensive Rote or two.
Sleepers are not the primary Mage antagonists, and should not be treated as such.
>>46246611
Congratulations. You appear to understand the attitude and perspective of a very low Wisdom mage. Now you know why mages, while basically human, are still considered monsters.
The discussion about "mage supremacy" is just ridiculous. This is mostly because most mages don't have mid or high levels in all or most of the Arcana. Mages, while powerful within their chosen purviews, still have distinct limitations. It's the very reason why they form cabals for mutual protection.
>>46246719
>Now you know why mages, while basically human, are still considered monsters.
Because there's no downside to being one except ST-fiat bullshit "you can't beat it because I say so" monsters?
>>46246754
I think he means the mentality of "eh, I can fix that, who cares."
>>46232773
>XIII
>Back hooded robes
>reanimation
In my headcanon Kingdom Hearts is now a World of Darkness thing.
>>46246796
But they do fix it, so what's the problem? I'd be a millionaire rockstar olympian if I had infinite do-overs, how is that something from a horror game?
>>46246382
I never said anything about vulgar spells. Just that when you use extra reach you get paradox. And the amount of paradox die is determined by your gnosis. Gnosis 1 will have 1 Paradox die per extra reach while Gnosis 6 might have 2 or 3 paradox die per extra reach.
Mage is about the horror of what humans are capable of when given cosmic power. Humans are easily as monstrous as any vampire or werewolf if given the chance.
It's how Awakening is little more than the realization that you exist in the oppressive prison of the Lie and really cannot do much about it. The Exarchs have already won.
Quiescence means you magic potentially hurts everyone around you, injuring their very souls, and they'll never even remember. You're alone and isolated from you old life, and are a risk to all Sleepers.
Your Mage Sight constantly tells you about all the supernatural activity constantly surrounding you just under the surface of normal life. You'll never again know the sweet bliss of ignorance. Paranoia and obsession become the norm.
Also, fail or reach too high with you magic, and you potentially unleash the forces of unreality on an unsuspecting world. Do you even care?
Mage has distinctly different themes than games like Vampire or Demon (and often more powerful adversaries). If you don't like Mage, don't play. However, whining about how mages are "too powerful" or "not monstrous enough" is just infantile.
>>46246938
>game system built around interconnecting gamelines
>make one of them more powerful than all the others put together
>act like other people are unreasonable when they question this
>>46247009
>>game system built around interconnecting gamelines
This has never been the case. "uses the same chassis" is literally the only support crossovers have ever been given aside from token mentions (and one abortion of a book). It's like arguing that a 200-point accountant and a 500-point superhero should be fine in the same game just because they're both built in GURPS.
I do kind of wish we went back to oWoD's style of "These Are Facts" setting-writing if only so, by giving all the gamelines mutually incompatible backstories, retards like you would realize that crossovers aren't and have never been a feature of WoD, let alone something it's built "around."
>>46247099
>(and one abortion of a book)
>"things I don't like don't count"
Good to know.
>>46247009
>>game system built around interconnecting gamelines
It objectively isn't, though?
It's made so, if you want, yeah, you *can* have a crossover game, but that's not the intended method of playing the game; hence why none of the core books(except Beast) give you direct advice on how to run your splat with others
>>make one of them more powerful than all the others put together
I think you missed the discussion last thread about how a Mummy can absolutely wreck a Mage with one of their powers. Demons are also roughly on-par with Mages, if we continue to ignore the balancing factors.
Hell, 2e Mages aren't even as supreme as they were in 1e, since Ritual Casting is now the default and doesn't give you ridiculous dice pools, which was THE ONLY reason people made such a big deal about Mage supremacy
>>46247122
The game existed for literally 20 years and gets TWO crossover-centric books, one of which literally ended its edition. That's not "built around," that's "well maybe we can make some money out of doing this thing the system has never been designed to do and isn't improved by."
>>46247122
No
>Beast is a horrible game that should be re-written entirely to make it possible and interesting to play as the only splat in a Chronicle without being objectively evil, instead of being horribly built around being the guy who watches everyone else have fun
>>46247099
>This has never been the case.
>>46247151
>It objectively isn't, though?
Every single core book has a section about how your type view other supernaturals and how they view you. The lines all do exist in a single game world, the mechanics and fluff in every single line says so.
That your favorite line is the horribly out of place power fantasy in an otherwise horror setting, does not change what is written in the books.
>>46247151
>I think you missed the discussion last thread about how a Mummy can absolutely wreck a Mage with one of their powers.
And then Dave cried because his precious Mages had something that could hurt them and told everyone to pretend it doesn't do that at all.
>>46247213
>Every single core book has a section about how your type view other supernaturals and how they view you.
And, as we can get from looking at those quotes, they're clearly not talking about the same supernaturals that are in those other books.
Beast's quote for Demons specifically makes no sense if it's talking about Descent-Demons, for example.
>The lines all do exist in a single game world, the mechanics and fluff in every single line says so.
The MECHANICS assume that they do not. That's why it's just "Blood Potency" in the resistance mechanics; engineering it to "Supernatural Tolerance in general" is one of many many CHANGES to the mechanics you have to make to make crossover happen.
>>46247253
>Supernatural Tolerance and Potency
>As you venture beyond this book and into the wider world of playable monsters, you’ll find that those monsters have traits that help them perpetrate and resist supernatural effects.
>Supernatural Tolerance is a number added to pools to resist magical powers. Vampires use their Blood Potency, while werewolves use their Primal Urge
Core book says they're all equivalent. That's not a change, that's something the publisher actually wrote in the books. Again, not liking something doesn't mean it stops existing
>>46247253
>Beast's quote for Demons specifically makes no sense if it's talking about Descent-Demons, for example.
Yeah I think it would be "THAT IS A BAD! THAT IS A BAD AND GET IT AWAY FROM ME!" While the Demon in question is checking their arsenal to see which thing they can use to kill the horrible monster in front of them without breaking their Cover.
Don't fuck with the universes killbots folks.
I don't know if its more amusing or sad when people who are either ignorant or willfully blind to the actual setting, themes or mechanics of Mage complain about the game, often for no other reason than it makes their favorite splat *seem* less powerful in comparison.
>>46247324
>of course your splat's theme's are less important than mine, this is mages we're talking about
>>46247231
>And then Dave cried because his precious Mages had something that could hurt them and told everyone to pretend it doesn't do that at all.
You are thinking of the wrong Mummy power. But go on projecting and making an idiot of yourself.
To Wit: Rebuke the Vizier works just fine on Mages and that has been backed up by Dave. Beast Soul Fury will also fuck over any Mind mage incredibly hard.
>>46247303
The CORE book says they're equivalent, which is not Vampire. Vampire does not refer to Tolerance, it refers to Potency. If it was ~crossover friendly~ it would refer to Tolerance.
You have to change the mechanics of Vampire to run it with Werewolf, and vice versa.
>>46247303
Designing game mechanics that are (allegedly) compatible among the different gamelines is not even remotely the same thing as "game balance" or implying the design goals, setting and themes of the various games are necessarily compatible.
No not mistake a convenience for players who want crossover as a WW/OP imperative that crossover is easy, advisable or thematically consistent.
I honestly don't know why we're arguing with this person, he's not going to listen to us, but at least he's better than that one anon who thought all of the people who were replying to him were one person, despite plenty of evidence being provided to the contrary.
>>46239571
Yeah, screw him, he likes to have fun, what a loser.
>>46247354
Mage's setting and themes are not more or less important than any other gameline.
However, Mage doesn't need to change to suit other gamelines because you find its priorities or mechanics inconvenient.
More importantly, most of the arguments about Mage actually demonstrate an abject lack of understanding of the setting or really involve useless "white room" comparisons well outside the role-playing experiences of most people.
>>46247491
>However, Mage doesn't need to change to suit other gamelines because you find its priorities or mechanics inconvenient.
Shouldn't have to change, because they shouldn't be so broken in the first place. The point is the gameline is wonky and doesn't fit with nwod/cofd as a whole and using the new edition to make them even wonkier isn't helpful.
>>46247213
It's built with a setting of all of the gamelines existing in the same universe, yes, but not with crossovers in mind. They present how to handle other splats in case the ST decides he wants to have your Coterie run into a Werewolf, so he doesn't have to scramble around for 5 minutes trying to figure out what to use in place of Blood Potency on the werewolf. They don't include the mechanics for playing a Werewolf, though, because the games are intended to be run separately.
>>46247253
>Beast's quote for Demons specifically makes no sense if it's talking about Descent-Demons, for example.
Uh...have you read the quotes in question? They're pretty distinctly talking about Cover, the paranoia of knowing about the God-Machine, and the Fall. Nothing about fire-and-brimstone, nothing that doesn't fit the Unchained at all, really.
>>46247354
>I can't understand this post so I'm just going to try and perpetuate the argument
>>46247367
>You have to change the mechanics of Vampire to run it with Werewolf, and vice versa.
You are, objectively, incorrect. Literally the only thing you have to change is swapping out Primal Urge/Blood Potency for Supernatural Tolerance.
The games all use the same system, yes. That doesn't mean they're intended to be run together. That'd be like trying to run Dark Heresy and Deathwatch together; sure, they both use the WH40kRPG system, and they're mostly identical in terms of mechanics, but anything that threatens a Deathwatch character in the least is going to OBLITERATE a Dark Heresy character. Same goes for, for example, Mages and Hunters.(Or, hell, Werewolves and Hunters.)
TL;DR, It's a bunch of separate game lines that use the same system and exist in the same universe. That doesn't mean they're all on the same power level, and you're an idiot if you think they should be.
>>46247460
It's not that the Anon "likes to have fun," it's that he's either totally ignorant about the actual design goals, setting and themes of Mage and/or he resents other people having their own fun running the game as intended.
Complaining that mages are "too powerful" or "not really monsters" outside the context and themes of the Mage setting is little more than adolescent entitled whining.
>>46247596
>because they shouldn't be so broken in the first place.
Okay sunshine, what makes Mages broken (I'm a totally different anon to the one you are having an argument with, just a heads up.)
>>46247596
They aren't broken, they fit the toolbox that is the CofD as well as any other tool in that box, and if you think 2e makes them wonkier than you really don't have even the faintest clue about the parts that were most problematic about their mechanics in 1e.
>>46247619
>They don't include the mechanics for playing a Werewolf, though, because the games are intended to be run separately.
So Prestige classes from other books shpould never be used in D&D because they come from separate books based on the same game?
>>46247009
I agree, all of this 'interconnecting' shit is nonsense. We should go back to the cWoD,where it was at least clear that nothing could even dream of standing up to a Mage.
>>46247619
>Uh...have you read the quotes in question?
The point is that taking off a Demon's "mask" is going to get you fucking STOMPED. It's not a threat you make unless you're completely ignorant. It makes no sense for a Beast to say that to a Descent-Demon.
>You are, objectively, incorrect. Literally the only thing you have to change is swapping out Primal Urge/Blood Potency for Supernatural Tolerance.
>You are objectively incorrect. Here's a mechanic you objectively have to change.
I'd rather play Unknown Armies, you know the actually good modern mage game
>>46247660
>cWoD,where it was at least clear that nothing could even dream of standing up to a Mage.
If you actually believe such nonsense, you apparently also failed to follow the entire metaplot of the classic WOD.
>>46247491
As is amply demonstrated by this thread and *many* other discussions, Mage is not "broken" just because you don't like it or its setting doesn't suit your tastes or play preferences.
Your argument is that of an autistic, entitled child. You alone are not the judge of what people should or should not like about or want from any WW gameline.
if Mage doesn't suit you, don't play it, but spare us the sanctimony.
>>46247696
Are you dense? The Technocracy obliterated an Antedelluvian and fucked up the entirety of the Ravnos. Mages are gods, up until the point reality bites back.
>>46247789
>up until the point reality bites back.
And THIS is the thing everyone forgets about Mage when they sperg out about it being a bad because they don't like it.
>What would happen if I tore off your masks? Would anything remain?
No. No it wouldn't. The demon would destroy everything.
>>46247835
Which Beast 'family' has this as their stereotype again?
