Calaban, the Gravewalker (*6pts)
* Bull Snapper (3pts)
* Bull Snapper (3pts)
* Blind Walker (7pts)
Sacral Vault (9pts)
Croak Raiders (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts)
Croak Raiders (Leader and 5 Grunts) (5pts)
Gatormen Posse (Leader and 4 Grunts) (9pts)
Gatormen Posse (Leader and 4 Grunts) (9pts)
Swamp Gobber Bellows Crew (Leader and 1 Grunt) (1pts)
Mist Walker (2pts)
50

Caliban's jank ass assassination actually sort of works now, which is hilarious.

>>46143022
Crocs OP plz nerf

>>46143022
Is Mist Walker out??

>>46134704
Gunna answer this from last thread cuz it seems interesting Going to list non-character & character both. Mostly based on design/fluff.

>Cygnar
Minuteman or Dynamo
>Khador
Grolar or Black Ivan
>PoM
Judicator or Hand of Judgement
>Cryx
Shrike or Cankerwurm
>Mercs
Nomad or Rocinante (since it's the only one)
>RoS
Banshee or Moros
>CoC
Modulator
>Trolls
Swamp Troll or Dozer & Smigg
>Circle
Riphorn Satyr or Brennos
>Skorne
Aradus Soldier or Tiberion
>Legion
Teraph or Zuriel
>Minion
Blckhide Wrastler or Skarath

>>46143962
Not yet but his rules are in the new NQ

Aw crap, forgot to update the errata link.

>>46143289

>on the one hand, we're the plz nerf game now
>on the other hand, fuck cryx

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>>46126646
No, you are not alone. You were supposed to use an Umbral Reaver model as Warwitch Victoria Haley.

What casters work best with satyrs? I want horny goat beasts to wreck face.

Anyone having the warmachine novels in digital form?
Or at least a list of all the novels? They are kinda hard to track down.

>>46147613
https://skullislandx.com/warmachine

>>46147679
Thanks man

Is Warmahordes dying? I just started getting into it but I can't find a game store that plays it in the DC area. Should I pick a different game instead?

>>46149184
Like every system, it totally depends on your local scene. Best bet when getting into gaming is to look around and figure out what people play, so you've got people to play with.

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Has anyone been playing the platoon level stuff? How are you liking it?

>>46146035
Do you have the rest of these cards? I've seen these ones but never saw the images for the rest.

>>46149184
Depends on the area and how far people are willing to go to play.

Some areas only play Warmachine in any real numbers. Other may not like miniatures at all!

Some areas had their fledgling community cannibalized by other games. My area is dealing with the table space Wars with X Wangz and Armada.... And I just saw a huge crowd at the store today for a demo of... You guessed it, Guild Ball.

I'm a bit salty. I've had my disagreements about how the game was being handled at my store but this is the fastest I've seen people leave my main game since our 2011 40k Exodus.

So TLDR is check your area first. Do this with every game. Get a demo and more importantly, learn more about the players. It only takes one dipshit to poison the well.

my meta all switched to xwing or fantasy too.

Haven't been able to get a game in months

Any news on next season's ADR pairings?

>>46149184
I believe so.

It's not being replaced by another skirmish game from what I can tell of it though.

I think the game is reaching the point of unsustainability. I think PP is trying and failing to veer away from WM so they can do other things, but the company is incompetent as hell.

>>46152406
Oh fuck off with your baseless shit.

>Playing 50pt pMakeda (me) versus eGrimm
>Get randomly out-listed by bringing Incendiarii when he has a Krielstone so I LITERALLY have a 9 point useless unit
At this point I really do need to buy another unit. Maybe I should get That piece of shit stone seriously. I should've won too. Forgot that my Soulward could take another shot since it had 3 souls on it, and when Molik Karn went for a 19" assassination run I boosted to hit a sidestep when I only needed a 5, and not having that 1 point of fury let Grimm survive on 5 boxes. Felt bad, but at the same time felt good knowing I could've won despite a 9 point disadvantage.

Think I'll get hold of some Cetrati and their CUA. Sit those dudes on the flank with Mordikaar reviving them.

>>46153438
>Maybe I should get That piece of shit stone seriously
Looks like I meant to type about Cetrati mid sentence then something happened and I forgot. Lel.

>>46153438
You can still CMA with them to take stuff out.

And remember, if he's calling no Cont, he's not calling +1 STR.

Also, trying to parse what you said. Did you boost straight up, or have to use future sight?

>>46153541
Basically I needed to sidestep off two dudes to get in range of Grimm, and both of them were 5 to hit because of 7MAT + Carnage. The first guy I just rolled to hit normally and landed it, but because sidestep only triggers off initials, I decided that I'd boost on the 2nd guy to make sure I rolled the 5, leaving me with only 4 fury to buy attacks on Grimm himself, when I needed to roll a 7 to hit him. To be honest I forgot Karn had future sight so straight up boosted the roll. Guess I'm showing my inexperience with using Karn here. Shame since future sight basically lets me pseudo buy another attack and it's insanely likely to hit.

>>46153606
Yea, Future Sight lets you make those risky rolls without having to worry about it. You pretty much never initially boost with him because of it, since you can always just boost afterwards. It can be quite useful since you might end up just hard rolling that 10 to hit, and you can judge your initial rolls to decide if you should boost or just buy another attack.

No Bulldoze on him for the assassination run?

>>46153676
I had nothing that granted bulldoze. My list was:

Points: 50/50
Archdomina Makeda (*5pts)
* Cyclops Raider (5pts)
* Aradus Sentinel (8pts)
* Molik Karn (11pts)
Cataphract Incindiarii (Leader and 5 Grunts) (9pts)
Nihilators (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts)
Paingiver Beast Handlers (Leader and 3 Grunts) (2pts)
Swamp Gobber Bellows Crew (Leader and 1 Grunt) (1pts)
Tyrant Commander & Standard Bearer (3pts)
Agonizer (2pts)
Bloodrunner Master Tormentor (2pts)
Extoler Soulward (2pts)
Mortitheurge Willbreaker (2pts)

I would've used a 2nd Willbreaker if I had one in place of the Master Tormentor. Though admittedly the Master Tormentor saved an entire unit of Nihilators by free striking the dude trying to assassinate the last one while under pMakeda's feat. Next time I'll just hold one back intentionally and protect it with a smoke cloud or keep Mr Karn in front of it.

>>46151266
A bit.
It's fun and isn't as lopsided as it looks. Play mission, don't try to kill everything.

>>46152406
wow you're sure a genius in business practice and economics...
Oh wait, it sounds more like you're full of shit.

PP to retailers: "Make sure to buy extra of the Mist Walker, because everyone's going to want one!"

Sometimes I think PP just has no fucking clue what their models do.

>>46149184
I think it, and most other tabletop games, got hit really hard by the Recession. Stores closed all over the place and the game more or less died out.
Who knows if it'll make a come back.

>>46154534
Depends how nice the model is I guess. The statline and abilities are kinda shit so I doubt anyone wants one to field. I haven't seen the model yet myself.

>>46155983

He'd be good if Minions worked like Mercs so he could turn up in many list options but Minions are so very factionalized.

>>46153387
Hmm..


>What's Bullshit
>PP being incompetent
Yes
>PP shying away from Warmahordes
Bullshiiiiit.

Unless miniatures market becomes radioactive within the span of a few months, I don't see PP abandoning Warmachine and Hordes.

Maybe scaling back releases, but never abandon outright.

>>46154534
What are they going to say? "Don't buy our stuff"?

I get that the target audience that PP has generated does not match that of the sales reps, but think about how much memorization goes into being competitive. You think a sales person has time for this shit?

>>46156072
I think most stores special order their stuff while the shit models they stocked 2 years ago rot on the shelves.
That's the way it's been in every store I've visited. Shelves are guaranteed to be stocked with trash.

>>46156103
Made worse by discount retailers getting the product in before the game store does. :/

I don't think PP has a solid way of dealing with discount retailers. Two of the stores in my areas have a ton of stock...of stuff no one buys.

>>46156072
> FEATURES: The Mist Speaker will have high demand, as he works for all HORDES factions and brings a great deal of utility to his host army via his spell list. The Mist Speaker will explode in Blindwater armies and most players will probably pick up two of these solos.

I understand that you want to make your stuff sound good, but to claim basically everyone is going to buy two of them is pretty insane.

>>46157531
That sounds like they were referring to Minions players.

But whatevs. They need to ham it up.

>>46157641
Even then, most Minion players are going to want one, and even then he's not a must buy.

And even so, it still starts with "He works for all Hordes factions, and brings a great deal of utility to his host army."

And the solo's major problem is he does nothing in non-minion armies.

>>46154534
I plan to get at least 1 if not 2 Mist Walkers. Great looking model and great for Blindwater.

>>46157531
They claim Blindwater players will want two... which a lot are already saying exactly that. Myself included.

>>46157709
>And the solo's major problem is he does nothing in non-minion armies.
>Is a prowl solo that creates 3" cloud effects on self, thus Stealth
>magic reach weapon low POW but it's still something
>Influence enemies
>Guidance other minions in the army.
Yeah he sure does nothing. He may not be worth 2pts in most non-Minion armies but claiming he does Nothing is just dumb. Given how many armies are fielding minions his Faction only ability is still useful with certain combos.

>>46158171
>which a lot are already saying exactly that. Myself included.

Why though? Your best centerpiece shooting already has Eyeless Sight and Magical Weapon, so never mind that. You can do it for certain casters and the turtle, but that only really needs one in an army. What use do you have for the second one?

And Influence is a terrible spell, and it's even worse at MA6.
And once again, what are you using Guidence on? The best I've heard is the Meat Thresher, and that's 11 points to do something the other factions already do just fine. What else does he Guidance that actually cares?

If you want clouds, you've got Swamp Gobbers, who do it better and cheaper.

>>46158259
>Your best centerpiece shooting already has Eyeless Sight and Magical Weapon
What Minion has that combination?

>What are you using Guidence on?
Honestly? Whatever needs it to deal with Incorporeal/Paladins/Stealth/Concealment/Forests/cloud effects. The obvious targets are of course the Blindwalker, Spitter, and Warlocks. I can see it being useful on Trawlers, Pendrake, Alten, & Orrik as well. Actually Alten Ashley with Eyeless Sight could be very useful now that I think about it.

>If you want clouds, you've got Swamp Gobbers, who do it better and cheaper.
Why not both? 11" of cloud cover is better than 5"

>>46158387
Sacral Vault. What, I should note, handily deals with all the things you just talked about.

And Ashley is generally not worth 2 points already, why make him cost 4?

And I was talking about in non-Blindwater armies. What are you using Guidence on in a Troll/Circle/Legion list?

Because then you're spending points you could be spending on in faction stuff that does better things for you. If the gobber cloud can't cover you, then the Vortex isn't going to help much.

>>46158441
I've still yet to get a Vault for myself. Lack the $ for a battle engine currently. Didn't know it had Eyeless Sight.

>you're spending points you could be spending on in faction stuff that does better things for you.
You're conveniently ignoring part of my previous post.
>He may not be worth 2pts in most non-Minion armies but claiming he does Nothing is just dumb.
I flat-out stated he's not worth using over better faction stuff outside Blindwater. Skorne are the most likely to use him outside Blindwater simply because they already use Minions frequently.

>>46158517
>but claiming he does Nothing is just dumb.

And I proceeded to tell you exactly why he does nothing.

I didn't say he does literately nothing, because sure, he has actions he can take. But nothing he does for non-minion armies is worth his cost in any way.

And we come back to the fact that PP suggested that everyone would be buying this dude, so much that they told retailers to stock extra. Which is a bold faced lie, or a huge misunderstand of their own product.

>>46158577
It's neither a lie or a misunderstanding. It's corporate jargon likely written by a salesman and not the ones who designed the model. That's nothing new or special to PP or this model. Capitalism these days isn't about whether the product is actually quality, it's about making people think it's worth their money with catchy ads or turns of phrase to sell it.

Mist Speaker is worth the $10 or less it will cost imo. It brings utility to Blindwater cuz not every list includes a Vault and it's a really cool looking miniature. I'll get one of them and play with it a while before I decide on a second or not.

>>46149184

There isn't really any concrete evidence, more just heresay and reports from various people.

It does depend on the local scene, my store used to have about 10 to 12 people on Wednesdays and Saturdays, but the game has all but disappeared for other things, mainly xwing.

I have a take it with a grain of salt and know a guy who knows a guy, but a fairly large distributor has been moving less and less WMH product over the last 6 months or so. Again, take that as you will, as it's just as reliable as the rabid fan boy defense of PP starting everything is just fine.

There are still podcasts and tournaments at conventions that have more attendance than a lot of other games currently.

It all depends on how PP is going to handle the game as the "vocal minority"
Has become pretty loud lately and overall negative, not that negativity is anything new.

>>46149184
Northern Virginia has a huge warmahordes scene. Do you have a car? Fairfax area has lots of stores with warmahordes nights.

>>46153438
Soulward is still on ROF 1, and even though the Trolls were immune to continuous effects they weren't immune to the POW 12 guns or the POW 6 blasts.
It limits their usefulness significantly, but the Incindiarii could still do some stuff.

I am lately looking to the cephalyx cause hey not-illithids are cool.
Is it possible to run at least semi monstrosity heavy?like 3 of them?
or is this completely dudespam?

>>46161888
There's a pretty good list that takes like 6-7 of the guys.

>>46161888
Cognifex Cyphon (*6pts)
* Wrecker (7pts)
* Wrecker (7pts)
* Wrecker (7pts)
* Wrecker (7pts)
* Wrecker (7pts)
Cephalyx Mind Bender & 9 Drudges (6pts)
Cephalyx Mind Bender & 9 Drudges (6pts)
Cephalyx Mind Slaver & 6 Drudges (0pts)
Cephalyx Agitator (2pts)
Cephalyx Agitator (2pts)
Cephalyx Agitator (2pts)
Pistol Wraith (3pts)

Cyphon T4, something like this.

You end up with a shitload of insanely hard hitting Wreckers getting up the field super fast.

>>46162168
Also, I'm an idiot. Drop the two Benders to min units and drop the Wraith and add another Wrecker.

Ok, working on my pThags/BB/warspears list.

Originally had plans for a 50 point list, but after spending some quality time with the 35 point variant, I've got different ideas for the 50 point version.

So, at 35:

pThags +5 AoA Tier 2
- Blightbringer 18
- Shredder 2
Warmonger War Chief 0 (tier benefit)
max Blighted Ogrun Warspears + ua (10)
max Blighted Ogrun Warspears + ua (10)

Very happy with this, just need more practice. For bumping up to 50, I had originally planned on swapping the Shredder for a Carnivean (mainly to put Spiny Growth on the BB), but after playing with it at 35, I realized that a) 22 ARM on a 52-box model that comes back is still pretty good, and b) Tenacity applied to the Warspears is nice, and at 1 fury per cast, I can hit several of them if Thags doesn't need to do work, so I'm considering some other options.

Option 1:

Ravagore 10
The Forsaken 2
max Spawning Vessel 3

Adds enough Fury management to run both the 'Gore and Blighty hot (the Forsaken can promptly buy attacks into the Blightbringer after removing its fury to spend the fury to use it again; expected damage into an ARM 22 model is... tiny), and the Ravagore adds another big, long Eyeless Sight shot *and* gives the BB a 5" aoe with continuous fire. The pot just jams in front of the warspears and offers up another ankle biter.

Option 2: (out of tier, so rebuying the War Chief)

Sacral Vault 9
Warmonger War Chief 3
max Spawning Vessel 3

Biggest problem with the original list is light infantry spam, so why not deny half the board to it?

Option 3:

Angelius 9
max Spawning Vessel 3
max Spawning Vessel 3

Adds scenario presence (another, although milder, weakness), and lots of jamming.

Comments?

>>46162046
>>46162168

Thanks for the replies.
Sounds like fun though 26 infantry is more than I would like,
I will proxy some games and see how it goes!

>>46162481
For reference, the original 50 point lists I was considering were:

pThags +5 AoA Tier 2
- Blightbringer 18
- Carnivean 11
Warmonger War Chief 0 (tier benefit)
max Blighted Ogrun Warspears + ua (10)
max Blighted Ogrun Warspears + ua (10)
max Spawning Vessel 3
max Spawning Vessel 3

and

pThags +5
- Blightbringer 18
- Carnivean 11
- Succubus 2
Warmonger War Chief 3
max Blighted Ogrun Warspears + ua (10)
max Blighted Ogrun Warspears + ua (10)
Feralgeist 1


I'm currently especially down on the second list because a) it lacks the jamming the top list (and the other new ideas have), and I'm largely now turned off on the difference between Tenacity and Spiny Growth, and if I use Tenacity as the universal defensive buff, the Succubus is worth a lot less (and effectively costs 5 points because she forces the list out of tier).

Hmm, maybe Zuriel could be fun here too, as the list tends to leave tightly packed infantry after they kill the BB, only for Thags to feat it back, and two fully-hit-boosted sprays into them could be fun.

>>46159330
I think the negativity is intensifying because the podcasters and tourney players are feeling the burn.

A lot of stuff has become predictable and optimized to the point where the list building feels solved. It doesn't help that PP has consistently released the most desired models in the books late compared during the last year and the half.

>>46159330
Our meta is big and keeps growing. *shrug*

Honestly, though, there's more competition now than there has been, as FFG is a serious tabletop player with XWing now.

I'm kinda suspecting that when MkIII comes out, PP will rename the game "Warmachine and Hordes" to group all sales for the system under one category, so they go back up in the rankings (which they look worse now than they actually are due to their sales split between Warmachine and Hordes sold as separate games).

>>46163164
It's better to sell it as a separate ip. Double the core rule sale and milk more hype through the year since wm books are released at first half while hordes is second half.

>>46162986
One of the other problems is that with the move to L&L, things are becoming stale as they stay in play a lot more than usual.

June promises to have a whole lot of shit change all at once for Warmahordes.

>>46163528
>Double the core rule sale

They give the rules for free online now.

>wm books are released at first half while hordes is second half.

Wouldn't be any reason to stop that.

>>46163989
You still sell the rulebook.

If you are going to sell it seperately, why even lump it?

>>46144009
Banshee all fucking day

>>46165118
>Banshee all fucking day
Damn straight

>>46162481
I personally want to see legionaries + croc doc with the bb, but I won't give you any guarantees

>>46142960
What's the best place to start for a newbie?

>>46167655
seconded

>>46167655
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxirCgRSzhA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=En7dqerjSJM

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From BOLS.
I was expecting something more for the new book I guess.
Still the part about once upon a time in Khadoran occupied Lael seems interesting

>>46159956
I do have a car. It's just rough getting down there from Rockville after rush hour. Do you have any store suggestions?

>>46168415
Wow! It's fucking nothing!

>>46163678
What's happening in June?

>>46168415
I'm really excited to see the Campaign rules.

>>46168822
New Steamroller, new Errata, their big keynote, assumed all the new Colossals will be there for pre-release.

I want a gargantuan, but I don't want a Mammoth that overhangs its base to an absolutely shameful degree.

>>46169467
Get the Hydra when it comes out.

Does anyone have thoughts on the new Hordes faction? I heard it could possibly be Zu. Does anyone know much about these guys? I heard they were bug/dinosaur/plant monsters? Is this true?

>>46171064
Baseless rumors.

But I'll eat my hat if they're anything but another dragon faction.

>>46171064
I heard it was going to be blighted bogrun

>>46162639
>>46162481
I can personally tell you that as a Convergence player the Ravagore variant is likely the most annoying, because it supplies you with a gun to remove jamming models.

But beyond that, I've seen a full strider + solo variant on the table, which actually was pretty interesting: giving those weaponmaster Cav +4 damage makes them hit far, far harder than you expect, and their shooting is great for thinning out support. It also forces your opponent to watch his flanks, since they can so easily end up in their back line.

On the other end, I've seen, though not played against, a double Deathstalker variant that I also liked, mostly because it shut down my primary tactic against the list. You suffer from a low volume of attacks and especially have issues with clearing charge lanes for your Warspears, so having Deathstalkers to reliably do so seems like it might be really good.

As far as your stuff goes, Ravagore variant might be the best, it lets you shoot pretty handily, you can put it's animus on the BB for spam lists, and gives you a second respectable heavy to trade with if you have to feat the BB back onto the table.

So I haven't played in a year or two, and I'm going to enter a 35pt spell draft soon. I have Legion and Khador, and looking at the format I think my evayl would be my best bet. Now I just need to figure out a list.

Any tips or what to look out for in spell draft?

I've got:
1 ravagore
1 scytheon
2 carns
1 angelius
1 raek
Bunch of shredders
1 Naga
2 or 3 shepherds
1 forsaken
5 raptors and anyssa
5 warpsears and UA

>>46171273
Cool, thanks.

I've considered Deathstalkers for extra unjamming, but end up not liking where I get pointswise after adding them. Also seen the Raptors variant, but not sold on it yet, as they get fewer shots per point than the Warspears, and lack the Stealth some of the other forward-playing stuff Legion has.

Suddenly, I wonder if this setup can make Grots playable -- with Draconic Blessing + Dragon's Breath + Gang they can get up to a respectable PS 16, and can follow behind the BB and then charge *through* it when they attack.

Hmm, more stuff to think through and try...

>>46172338
There's two ways to go about it:

1. Bring a fucking shitload of beasts and hope you draft synergy.

2. Build as balanced a list as possible and try and grab spells that can support it.

>>46172338
Which warlocks do you have?

eVayl and draft the highest pow spell in each pack that you can.

Park a shredder by their caster, turn it into an arc node, feat, and then there's a dead caster.

>>46174027
I have:
Vayl 1 and 2
Thag1
Lyth1
Abby1
and that infantry warlock dude I don't use since I have no incubi/troops

Does anyone use legionnaires anymore? I only see warpsears these days, but I love the look of legionnaires.

>>46174974
I use them and Farilor.

The next Legion warlock that got previewed is a Legionaire who got an anthanc so I'm really hoping for Elite Cadre: Legionaires. Or at least some strong synergy.