Previous Thread: >>46099175
http://pastebin.com/gsYUFPGD
Chronicles of Fagness
>>46115811
>>46115818
The joke hs officially worn out. Stop it now
>>46115844
nah, nice dubs tho.
>>46115844
Come on man, you know it hasn't, it never will.
One thing that has me confused is if Chronicles works of God-Machine Rules or is it just a re-skinned nWoD with a different name. It feels like it wants to be both and neither at the same time.
>>46115751
>and then afterwards we became the scooby doo gang
That's no joke man
>>46115898
Chronicles is the GMC update applied to nWoD rules, dude.
If it feels like it "wants to be both," that's because GMC was a rules update to nWoD.
>>46115907
Ok but seriously, is a scooby-esqe game the only way to run a proper mortal game?
>>46115907
I almost forgot about that scene but it actually makes even more sense from our game. The Daeva had Malkavia and the GM houseruled that the madness was contagious through constant ingestion of her blood. We had an NPC who was killed in a similar fashion when the principal's ghouls cornered her and beat her to death with their golf clubs. She was the Queen Bee who joined us because her boyfriend dumped her and started hanging out with the Principal after class. At first she was annoying but once she realized we could take the principal down she became Ms. Moneybags and got us equipment and insider knowledge. We had to run before they chased us but it played out very similar.
>>46116082
Or maybe this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VDvgL58h_Y
>>46116082
Just run a mortal game.
Hunters are people who encounter the supernatural and have hostility towards it (either violent or by means of exposing it).
Mortals don't have life commitments against the supernatural they might just run into it often.
>>46116082
You could always play True Detective(season 1)
Or Fargo(season 2)
Or The Mist/any Stephen King book/movie
Is it true there's an upcoming OPP game that lets me be a Kamen Rider?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTzdpMbGHww
>>46116106
That was amazing
>>46116252
Sort of.
Deviant is basically Changeling but your captors were human and the tone is more combative; which is the archetypal Kamen Rider story.
>>46116269
Such is the life of someone being hunted by a Spirit with Influence (Spoons).
>>46116311
I'll be fine just as long as I can be a cyborg bug-man beating up werewolves and vampires, friend.
>>46116346
>beating up werewolves and vampires
Lowest power splat besides Hunter. That's not happening
>>46116351
They say this, but they also cited shit like Akira and Devilman as inspirations, so I wouldn't hold my breath on the power level being consistent.
>>46116252
You're aware Hunters whole point is that they fight Vampires and Werewolves right?also lol "power levels" in world of darkness
>>46116351
>Lowest power splat besides Hunter
H-hunters can take on vampires...
Man, I'm sad to hear this. There was a thread on /tg/ a couple years back about a vampire encountering a Kamen Rider and the whole idea seemed fun to me.
>>46116351
>>46116365
It ALLOWS FOR the lowest-power stuff besides Hunter. The power level also scales up, with the cost being that the evil conspiracy you're fighting against is that much stronger, more omnipresent, and hard to take down.
As Dave put it: "You can play the Hulk, but then your enemy organization is 'The United States Military'."
>>46116378
>>46116395
There's a huge differene between "being a cyborg bug-man beating up werewolves and vampires" and the way that Hunters kill things.
Hunters kill shit in a way that would have the party screaming "ROCKS FALL ROCKS FALL CHOO CHOOOO" if the roles were reversed. Stand-up brawls aren't the Hunter way, because stand-up brawls are how you get turned into a werewolf's toothpick.
>>46116416
Good. Good...
This might be the thing that finally gets me into WoD.
So are we seriously using a Chronicle of Fagness as the continuation? Cause if so I wanna know if there are any merits/minor templates that give mortals a essence pool or do they always have to cast from willpower/health?
>>46116395
Please tell me this thread is archived somewhere. I want to be the karate bugman.
>>46116473
Does it have to be specifically essence?
Skinchangers can have 3/6 essence, and Purified get essence; though they're not really mortals.
>>46116505
Well I'm trying to make a spirit cultist for a mortal game with werewolf flavouring and I don't think I wanna have them be rogue wolf-blooded.
>>46116493
Holy shit I actually managed to find it:
http://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/30432252/
>>46116565
Can mortals have familiars because that's 10 essence?
What are some good VtM modules? I already read all the VtR ones (or at least all the SAS ones, if there are more i'd love to know about them).
>>46116589
if you want to get a bit out there, Inferno Demons can give people Numina and Ban of Power lets you increase your essence maximum (presumably including a theoretical increase from zero).
>>46116580
Thank you, my nigga who shines in darkness!
>>46116252
>>46116346
Why not just play Changeling?
I mean, isn't the primary trope of Kamen Rider that their powers are always gained from the enemy that they're fighting, somehow? That's Changeling as fuck
>>46116199
I always like to say that Hunters go looking for the supernatural while Mortals have the supernatural happen to them.
>>46116395
A hunter properly equipped and with some planning can take on an entire vampire group.
I don't think people take advantage of that in their stories enough. One crazy dedicated guy with a rifle and access to gasoline is every bit as dangerous as a rampaging werewolf.
>>46116788
sounds about right
>>46116589
Well I know a familair is one of the wolf-blooded tells, though it's more of a 'damage sponge' than anything else.
>>46116781
The thing is, Changelings are ultimately helpless against the True Fae, and instead their goal is to cope with what happened to them and prevent it from ever happening again.
Kamen Riders invariably destroy the conspiracy that made them what they are in the first place.
>>46116781
Deviant: the Lost is an accusation that can be pretty fairly leveled against it, but the major difference is one of tone and (if the writers actually pull off what Dave said) power level.
Changeling's tone is one of evasion; you can't actually hurt the person who hurt you, so revenge is off the table. You just have to deal with what's happened to you, and deal with the new life you've got.
Deviant wants you to turn right around and start punching your creator in the face. And while it's not any more effective (5 terrorists are not going to undo a megacorp, let alone the greed and occult-industrial complex that led to Dark Science Inc existing in the first place), it's a very different tone.
>>46116843
A changeling can defeat a True Fae is the story is good enough.
Fae are invariably and utterly bound to their nature, and if their nature requires them to be defeated then they will be.
>>46116861
Something that will happen to one in ten million changelings is not part of the game's tone or intended play style.
>>46116860
plus word of god says Changeling is all about dealing with post traumatic stress disorder
while deviant is more owod "fight the power"
>>46116860
Fair enough
>>46116877
That's the thing. Changeling is ultimately partly about being the victim. More specifically it's quite clearly allegorical to victims of sexual assault. To say that there is a wrong way to play that is problematic in itself.
It's true that the Fae are in a league of their own to emphasize the feeling of powerlessness some people feel, but ultimately the story of victimization and "redemption" from that state doesn't have to have one particular end.
Especially of course, when the game has rules for fighting the true Fae.
>>46116999
Let me rephrase that.
It's quite clearly allegorical to victimization, but the allegory is most clear with sexual assault.
>>46116252
Pretty much yeah. Deviant is the next CofD game.
>>46116999
Call of Cthulhu has rules for fighting Cthulhu and there where rules for fighting caine. Just because they're are rules for it doesn't mean it's a good idea to use them.
Besides, changeling should never have a, "I have killed my Keeper moment" with out the Changelings becoming monsters in their own right.
>>46117067
>but the allegory is most clear with sexual assault.
>perverts forcing their agenda
it really isn't
>>46117094
Then why does it usually involve rape on a physical, mental an spiritual level 9/10 times?
>>46117108
Because you see rape everywhere?
it doesn't. your body changes because you're in a storybook, your mind changes because everything isn't real, and your spirit changes only after itsbeen raked over the thorns and replaced by wyrd (something you do yourself)
I can't wait until we get some actual Deviant info. Like the subtitle. GenCon, maybe? Surely before Mage 2e...
>>46117086
Changelings becoming monsters, victims becoming victimizers, is a rather big part of the game if you haven't noticed.
The stronger you are, the less human you are, and at the point where you CAN beat the true fae you are by all accounts all but a true fae yourself.
It's how the rules work, it's quite clever that way.
>>46117159
My point, you're supposed to stay human an clear of reality, not embrace the monstorus nature of the abusers that alredy turned you as inhuman as you are. To go farther down that hole is to fail.
>>46117094
What do you mean pervert?
The doubt about your own identity, the blaming of yourself, the sexual connotations of at least one of the changeling groups, the whole notion of being a plaything, all are fairly classic for victims of sexual assault.
I'm not saying that it is the only type of victimization, I'm saying it's the one where the allegory is most clear. It's barely hidden with the rape metaphors, while the allegories to child abuse and the like are less clear or in your face.
>>46115811
Athens Georgia Art School Gothic.
And then half the crew literally died in a plane crash.
>>46117197
no
the point is to play a role
most people WANT to stay human, but that has no bearingbeyond that player
>>46117207
>The doubt about your own identity, the blaming of yourself, the sexual connotations of at least one of the changeling groups, the whole notion of being a plaything, all are fairly classic for victims of sexual assault.
Also of survivors guilt. They're the repercussions of any major trauma. You just want tag rape onto it for some reason.
>>46117268
Almost like they wants to do that because it's a theme of the game.
>>46117197
The problem with what you say here is that hole you refer to here is gaining the magical powers the changelings are famous for. There is inherent temptation in the system to turn into what is less human, and therefore closer to your victimizer. In fact several of the titles you can acquire are explicitly about dealing with trauma through assimilating victimizer traits.
It's clever.
>>46117268
I think the problem here is that you are only reading half the posts.
>>46117155
I'm still kind of in the "Deviant shouldn't have a subtitle at all, thus being a deviant in its own game series", but trademarking just the word probably isn't going to fly.
>>46117268
How is sexualizing your new identity classic for people with survivors guilt?
I know it is for sexual assault, but I haven't heard it about people with survivors guilt.
>>46117326
Oh nah I'm not saying it isn't clever, or that it's the 'wrong' way to play the game. I love the fucking game, but you know, gotta grasp to that clarity.
>>46116781
I don't want to play Changeling.
>>46117389
>How is sexualizing your new identity classic for people with survivors guilt?
Changelings don't universally sexualize their new identity and its not even required of the Spring Court. see, this is something you're putting on the game that isn't there.
>>46117429
I was talking about the fairest here. Not all changelings are part of a court after all.
True, you don't HAVE to sexualize yourself as a fairest though, but it's quite clear that its a big part of what they are.
Spring, Winter, Autumn and Summer are all ways people deal with trauma.
Depression, anxiety, anger, and hedonism.
That's separate from, or at least only one small part of, how you self identify.
I think you're objecting a bit much to what is quite clearly in the books.
Are you saying there's no link to sexual victimization in changeling?
r8 and h8, also thread theme
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKNdS7Soo0w
How do nightmares of a sub shop cause you to not be able to get a job?
>>46117570
Nah, son. We talking justice in the World of Darkness right now.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OT7Oi2fyFow
>>46117155
>GenCon will be before Mage 2e
Please no.
>Be Promethean.
>Finally become human.
>Suddenly step in a snare of thorny vines and get pulled into a bush.
>This bush is much deeper than it looks
>Become Changeling.
>Finally escape and track down the the...thing that has been enjoying MY humanity.
>Kill it.
>Celebrate becoming human...again.
>Get run over after leaving the pub.
>End up approached by a strange spooky thing who asks for a contract
>Come back from being dead, now have to eat ghosts.
>Fuck. My. Life
>>46117829
whining about it isn't going to make it come any faster
>>46117836
>choosing to become mortal
You're begging the World of Darkness to fuck you over again
>>46117859
The joke there is that in this you get to be mortal exactly twice (There...isn't much you can do to come back from being a Sin-Eater.)
>>46117859
>implying becoming mortal isn't just re-speccing
>>46117859
>Redeemed Prometheans are immediately killed or transformed into another type of supernatural
I wish this meme would die.
>>46117859
Well it's better than the New Dawn of Zeka.
>"Yay I'm human!"
>Suddenly radiation.
>"Nooo, my orga-erk!" *dead*
>>46117962
There are no happy endings
>>46117965
Also there's the option of the Zeka in question exploding during their New Dawn.
can the zeka be saved by 2e? Or will they remain shit like the unfleshed probably will.
>>46118103
At least the Unfleshed can become human and actually live afterwards.
>>46108024
>When was that?
Around 2004.
>>46118184
So nWoD.
>>46118199
Pro-tip: nWoD began in 2004
>>46118235
Nailed it.
>>46116896
Yeah - this one. Deviant was conceived as "a new classic World of Darkness game". Now, the two settings are called something different, but the idea's the same. It's supposed to merge the Punk "pcs against The Man" mood of WoD games with the CofD's grimy moral realism and slightly more realistic world.
In Changeling, the protagonists spend most of their time avoiding confrontation with the Gentry, and building new lives for themselves away from Arcadia.
In Deviant, your creators are right here, in the world with you, they're actively seeking you, and you can shoot them in the face.
>>46118664
Hey Dave: you've said that you won't update your rpg.net games while you're writing a book, work coming first and all. With Signs of Sorcery on the table now, and more Mage books and Deviant on the horizon, could you give any possible scenario that involves The Man Comes Around being updated within the next year (that, obviously, doesn't involve you abruptly losing your job)?
>>46118251
>mfw newfriends don't realize how big VtM was and the splash it made
>They probably think WoD was always a dilapidated abandoned ghetto
>>46118931
So what you're saying, anon, is that WoD and CoD are the Detroit of TTRPG?
>>46117491
Being the fairest is about being the protagonist now. Not a pretty lady.
>>46119202
>not being the pretty protagonist of a teen fiction novel
>>46119202
You say that like any of the seemings in 2e are good besides for Wizened.
>>46118664
Hey Dave, if a wolfblooded that has werewolf regeneration and awakens. Does the regeneration count as natural or supernatural healing for the purpose of resistance damage?
>>46119312
My point is your more heroic then sexy. Not saying you can't be both.
>>46119322
Honestly I like all the Seemings.
>>46119322
No, they said that because it's true, no matter how much you whine about it.
>>46119330
Jesus Christ, vampires don't heal without spending Vitae to do it.
>>46119367
You say that like I can't whine forever, it worked on the Mysteriums shit 2e merits.
>>46119202
I mean, that's not true to any extent that doesn't apply to any other character.
So I haven't played nWoD (CofD?) in a long time, but I'd love to get back into it. Are Vampire and Werewolf the only games 100% compatible with the new Chronicles rules right now? Are all the nWoD game lines eventually going to get second editions like them?
>>46119367
First my main concern is mages healing damage from paradox every turn.
Also vampires can be healed through magical means.
>>46120323
Demon & Beast were CofD compatible from the ground up.
Most of them, yeah
>>46120335
Damage from Paradox is Resistant and cannot be healed with magic.
Vampires can probably be healed with magic, although it would probably require Death rather than Life or a combined use of both Arcana.
>>46120323
Vampire, Werewolf, Demon, and Beast are.
Changeling has a pretty full set of 2e playtest rules, also.
Mage isn't out yet but is in the end stages of production.
>>46120323
Vampire and Werewolf are the only 'orignal' games from nWoD to be fully transfered to 2e, Mage is Soon(TM) and Changeling appears to be very roughly playable since the guy making it gave us a bunch of spoiler things.
>>46120437
This I understand, my question is werewolf regeneration count as natural or supernatural healing. Because the text about could imply either one.
>>46120501
Why would it matter if werewolf healing was considered mundane or supernatural?
>>46120560
Because they want a ordo dracul to graft on a piece of wolf blood so they can gain a bit of werewolf regeneration
>>46120560
Because a wolfblooded can get that regeneration. Further more when a wolfblooded becomes another kind of Supernatural creatures they keep their Tell. So a mage can have that regeneration and if it natural healing he can then heal resistance bashing damage by the turn. Those allowing a mage to risk paradox more often
>>46120626
I would rule that werewolf healing is supernatural. However, don't forget that instant healing of lethal damage requires Essence.
>>46120351
>>46120457
>>46120471
Cool, thanks guys. Glad to hear both Mage and Changeling 2e are coming out soon, too, since I never really got a chance to play around with either of the originals.
>>46120737
>Mage
>coming out soon
>>46120713
I would only allow Resistant damage to be healed at the normal human rate no matter the circumstance. Characterizing it as "mundane" or "supernatural" would be immaterial.
Since Resistant damage is a uniquely Mage construct, I wouldn't let PC's cheat supernal law.
>>46120737
If by soon you mean in 2018 (with luck)
Then yeah, soon
>>46120437
Resistant Damage in 2e (Mage and - I *think* Changeling use it so far) - can't be healed *or have its healing time accelerated by* magic or powers, so werewolf or wolfblooded regeneration would not work on it.
>>46120841
Thank you for answering my question.
>>46120816
I don't care how long it takes as long as the layout is actually good. It's a bitch to find shit in Werewolf 2e core, and CofD core is a mess. Missing rules, references to rules that don't exist...
>>46120841
Can mages heal vampires, and if so, what Arcaana would be required in 2e? Thanks.
Alright, so we're currently helping the Prince eradicate the region's Lupine population. How can we find those loser kine that haven't turned fuzzy but could become fuzzy in the future? Is there aura distinct from the usual Joe Kine fare?
>>46120953
*their aura, natch
>>46120764
>>46120816
O-oh.
>>46120953
I'm assuming WoD since you're dropping Lupine, and while there isn't any aura anomalies as far as I know, there might be some genetic ones. Depending on how powerful your coterie is, you could make some friends at Developmental Neogenetics Amalgamated, should your ST use Apocalypse canon. If not, you're going to have to hit the geneology books.
>>46121154
Welcome to the Mage 2e Pit of Suffering, where we sit wailing and gnashing our teeth, in the hopes that Dracula and Rich Thomas drop the damn thing on DriveThru soon.
What's everyone going to complain about once Mage is finally published?
I don't like the delays any more than anyone else, including Dave who's waiting to get paid, but the incessant "jokes" reek of adolescent entitlement.
It's no wonder there are so many inane arguments about "mage supremacy" and similarly foolish topics. Apparently, and quite sadly, many vocal Mage fans are tweens or just act like them.
>>46121278
Honestly the only thing I think in going to hate is exceptional success for magic.
>>46121278
>What's everyone going to complain about once Mage is finally published?
-Mages are too powerful
-Mages take up too much of the settting
-Mage isn't a horror game
-Beast exists
-I found a scenario where I can break Mage forever on 237 Experience build, why is Mage so awful
-Beast exists
-Mage really isn't a horror game, I read a book on the history of horror and Mage isn't in it, QED
-[Insert Arcana Here] is too powerful, nerf it
-[Insert Arcana Here] is too weak, buff it
-Mage is too anime
-CofD is too anime
-WoD is too anime
-Beast exists
>>46121278
how deep is that stick lodged in your ass
do you need surgery
>>46121278
Maybe we'll go back to bitching about Beast again, or Changeling or Prommie
This is how I Obrimos.
This is how I wolf-blooded.
>>46121417
Beast existing is a legitimate issue.
>>46121514
Major: Death / Forces
Inferior: Life
best path
https://i.4cdn.org/wsg/1458428501264.webm
>>46121417
You forgot..
>ATLANTAS
-Shitty science, with genetic engineering bacterium and viruses being easier then changing someone's hair color.
-Forces is written by someone that failed 8th grade physics.
>>46121514
This is how I Obrimos.
>>46121589
Forces is not dependent on our understanding of physics, Matter is not dependent on chemistry, Life not dependent on biology, etc. It's magic, not science.
If you're limiting or constraining Forces by your knowledge of physics, that's just unfortunate and simply wrong. Maybe you should play a technocrat in Ascension...
>>46121589
I genuinely never understood the whole beef with Atlantis. Theosophy/New Age-y stuff is mostly untouched in gaming, save for Kenneth Hite/Robin Laws joints and your more Satyros Phil Brucato-y type games.
Is someone subject to a viniculum considered a Sleepwalker to a mage similar to a ghoul?
>>46121684
>If you're limiting or constraining Forces by your knowledge of physics
Thing is, Science is an exceptionally applicable Rote skill for Forces, and through understanding the laws of Physics, you can better fuck with the world by subverting them.
It's even more fun when you play a historical setting with a lesser understanding of physics.
I'm loving that I'll be able to say "causing directed eddies in the luminiferous aether".
>>46121871
Nope, it grants no Supernatural powers, so they're not Sleepwalkers.
>>46120945
In 1e you could affect Vampires with Life magic if you had an equal amount of Death magic. I don't see why you can't use the same rule in 2e.
>>46121896
Forces can certainly subvert or exploit Fallen physics, but the supernal is definitely not limited or constrained by our understanding of science.
>>46121995
Life and Death have been significantly revised in 2e, although I could certainly see a rationale to maintain the 1e rules with respect to vampires.
>>46121684
No, that's wrong but you've got the right basic idea. The limitations and effects of magic should be based on magical thinking, not on the writer's badly remebered failed attempt to learn basic science in school.
Look at page 163-166. Anything, really, it's all wrong.
>If you're limiting or constraining Forces by your knowledge of physics, that's just unfortunate and simply wrong.
Yeah, in that case bacterium and viruses shouldn't exist in the magical worldview and hair should be effected by life.
Prime is pretty much Magic magic, right? Is it still gud if you're dealing with things that aren't Mages?
>>46122025
The Free Council might disagree with that assertion.
However generally you're correct, by most fluff the Supernal is a realm of pure imagination and symbolism.
It looks like Matt is asking people what they would like to see in the Beast Players Guide on the Onyx Path Beast forums.
>>46122098
It lets you create phantasms and see the Truth.
>>46122136
Oh neat, I love Illusions but I thought that was a Forces thing.
Also what's the Truth?
>>46122098
Prime has purview over supernal truth, mana, and the concept of Magic.
Its usefulness outside of Mage interaction is dependent on if your opponents use some form of Magic.
I've used the Universal Counterspell and Dispellation on Fey Contract Magic before. Worked a treat.
Should probably work on a lot of other stuff too.
>>46122108
MORE PURPOSE.
LESS PURPLE PROSE.
>>46122089
>Look at page 163-166. Anything, really, it's all wrong.
All the example spells in nMage were lazily copypasted from oMage, meaning their rules don't line up with the new practices. Shocker.
>Yeah, in that case bacterium and viruses shouldn't exist in the magical worldview and hair should be effected by life.
Bacteria and viruses are powerful symbols in Life and Death, so no, they're fine.
"the magical worldview" is not "exactly what medieval scholars thought down to the letter," it's "what is a symbol for what."
>>46122168
Light, sound and heat illusions are a Forces thing.
Physical objects (a la Green Lantern) are a Prime thing.
Truth is Truth.
You can use Prime to ascertain Truth.
Someone's telling you a half truth? Prime can detect that.
Someone's in denial about something? Prime can detect the lack of truth, even if they superficially believe what they're saying.
>>46122219
Speaking of which, a Green Lantern ring would probably work extremely well as a physical yantra for a Phantasm spell.
>>46122186
If they are symbols of life and death creating smallpox is a Life 5 ritual that takes a huge number of successes. If they are real things, you can make smallpox with life 2.
Beyond that, the example spell list all being shit and the powers by level for Arcanium being shit are kind of a problem.
>>46122288
Death cannot create Life, and Life can only create Life with the practice of Making.
Alternatively, you could turn some other shitty rhinovirus into a Smallpox level ailment with probably... Perfecting?
>>46122288
>If they are symbols of life and death creating smallpox is a Life 5 ritual that takes a huge number of successes.
"creating" ANYTHING with Life requires 5 dots, yes. No matter what. If you want to point at empty space and say "there's a tiger there," it takes 5 dots (Making). If you want point at a dog and say "you're a tiger now," it takes 4 dots (Patterning). If you want to point at a lion and say "you're a tiger now," it takes 3 dots (Weaving).
You can do the same with bacteria; creating a toxic sludge of smallbox? Life 5. Turning a person into an equivalent mass of smallpox sludge? Life 4. Turning one bacteria into another bacteria? Life 3.
> If they are real things, you can make smallpox with life 2.
Life 2 absolutely wouldn't help you in either case, whether they're "symbols" or "real things," because none of the 2 dot practices transform things. You can't use Ruling to make a virus evolve into another virus, anymore than you can use Ruling to make a dog evolve into a tiger.
How's that blood magic working out for you, vampy? Still can't alter reality with it?
THEN WHY DO YOU CALL IT MAGIC, LOL
>>46122345
Death can unmake Death and those making live by doing so.
>>46122528
That's not creating life, that's unmaking Death.
In the absence of Death, life remains.
You're not creating life, you're restoring it.
>>46122492
c-can I be a blood mage if I have Matter magic? I want to embrace the edge.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iau6a9CqkEI
>>46122581
I would imagine that Blood is still the purview of Life.
>>46122657
Or Death, depending
>>46122657
Blood is Matter the same way orange juice is. He'd be fine.
Some more things from Claire Redfield.
http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/werewolf-the-forsaken/848028-mystery-cult-pentech-worldwide-leaders-in-natural-technology
http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/werewolf-the-forsaken/809400-umaraha-e-the-children-of-the-worm
Welcome the Apocalypse within a your Forsaken Views.
>>46122184
Well, you know where to say it! I hope Beast Player's Guide turns out good. I don't ever plan on playing Beast, but I think those that do should get a nice book out of it.
>>46122738
"Matter is an Arcanum concerned with lifeless material, the building blocks of the world. Through use of this magic, a mage gains control over raw elements and complex alloys alike. The Matter Arcanum encompasses everything from a simple puddle of water, to a chunk of uranium, to a plank of wood, to the most intricately structure polymer."
Orange Juice and Milk are under the purview of Matter as organic derivatives.
Blood is just as much a part of a living being as any organ.
>>46122844
I fucking love Pentex, I'm use this if it's even a little good. Fucking Apocalypse is so good.
>>46122863
So would cooked,sliced beef liver be Life then?
>>46122863
I'd go by vampire rules. Once it's "inert"/"dead" blood by vitae purposes it's Matter. Before that it's Life.
>>46123052
Life can manipulate dead biological materials, but not undead beings.
Matter can manipulate non-living matter.
I think they could both cast on that liver.
>>46123180
Huh, interesting. What about blood pudding or bludwurst? (My grandma used to make a mean bludwurst.)
>>46123247
If you're going to follow the rules I postulated before, then the situation would be the same, problem is we have almost no concrete information about purviews of Life, Death and Matter in 2e.
And in 1e, they're horrendously inconsistent with speed bumps, pointless conjunctional arcanum requirements and simple oversight.
For example, no Life spell makes any reference to casting on dead biological material, other than to state they can't cast on the undead (explicitly including Ghosts, shocker).
However Death can manipulate Dead bodies to make their death seem different, but how does that change the matter itself (if for example they were atomised, but you change it to a heart attack?)
Basically it's headache worthy, and I just can't fucking wait for 2e to come out, so we can start these arguments all over again.
You know, if I ever run a game of changeling I'm going to have end the adventure with a climatic battle between the motely and a group of goblins. It'll look something like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLCWCPyxByg
>>46123490
... I'm glad you're not my GM.
That sounds horrible.
>>46123490
Sounds awful, but I guess some weaboo JRPG fags like that kind of stuff
>>46123490
I had my werewolves fight a giant fish as their final boss and even I think that's lame :/
>>46123680
he just likes posting youtube links
>>46123490
Man, I really like that game a lot but the last game it should have any kind of influence on is a Changeling campaign.
Wow, I really need to start making these threads again so that we don't have to keep dealing with "chronicles of fagness" shit in the OP.
>>46123743
Well where else am I going to have a fucking mech fight?
>>46123861
Mage?
Hunter?Genius?
>>46123861
in demon
a true fae can be a mecha
werewolves fight mecha all the time
and hunters
>>46123901
>>46123922
Nah fuck that, Changeling 2e is about taking the fight back to the gentry, so my players are gonna take it back to their keeper in a god damn mech fight.
>>46123988
>Changeling 2e is about taking the fight back to the gentry
What? No it isn't.
>>46123988
then they should be fighting the true fae, goblins aren't true fae
but that's not what changeling is about, 1e or 2e
>>46123861
By using a True Fae that gets impatient and just invades the material realm to take back one of the Changelings?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S09mEDCqSx4
>>46123988
>Changeling 2e is about taking the fight back to the gentry
How fucking wrong can you be?
DaveH's stated that Changeling 2e is about coming to terms with what happened to you, and trying to make lemonade out of those Goblin Fruit.
>>46123988
>Changeling 2e is about taking the fight back to the gentry
plz no.
They can't miss the point that badly.
I mean I know they weren't exactly on point with some books, but this is just missing too much of the point.
>>46124062
DavidH doesn't know what the fuck he's doing, look at beast, he's gonna turn Changeling into some progressive piece of shit game. Where's the beautiful madness dammit!
>>46124053
You know, I liked the part of 1e which stated that True Fey are significantly weaker when they entered the material world.
It felt fairer.
And also meant that you didn't just have to run and hide when the Fey came calling.
>>46124100
DavidH had nothing to do with Beast (except the tokyo locale)
>>46124100
There are many objections I have to Changeling 2e, including the significantly higher power level, and the focus on huntsmen, but really Changeling shouldn't be a game about playing out your revenge fantasy, and Hill has at least tried to get people to stop playing angsty, suffering-riddled, tortured souls.
>>46124142
Oh god...
Shout out to Hatsune Prommiku! Fucking christ...
>>46124100
>>46124142
Not only was he not responsible for Beast, but he already released a bunch of Changeling shit for open testing and most people seem to think it's good.
>>46124062
Would lemonade made out of goblin fruits make you high?
>>46124175
>including the significantly higher power level
Nowhere near the level of Mage of course, obviously
>>46124217
Oh, you're right, I keep confusing him with that McFarland cuck. I apologize for the mistake.
Also 2e seemings are shit. All of them.
>>46124217
Apart from Embracing the Wyrd, how harvesting Glamour has now become an invasive procedure rather than just basking in someone else's emotion, the loss of contract groups, the focus on Huntsmen, and the much higher power level, I like it.
Thank god it's only in testing.
>>46124100
>Where's the beautiful madness dammit!
All over the place?
Also, taking the fight to the Gentry is dumb.
>>46124115
Except that they were still stupidly powerful and immortal, so even if you didn't run and somehow defeated them, they'd come back with a grudge. It minimized the feel of the True Fae. that's why I prefer Huntsman. They're not the True Fae, so it doesn't feel like Queen Mab herself is chasing you down and then getting smacked on the nose and coming back next week after sulking a bit.
>>46124212
The Vocaloid Promethean is like the most interesting part of Beast. And it's typical of the rest of Beast in that it's something interesting that's completely useless and there's nothing to it beyond "here's a neat thing".
>>46124268
The Fairest, with a 2-dot contract, can turn your clock back to when you were a baby.
Then shake you to death.
>>46124175
>Huntsmen
What is this nonsense?
How good is an Ogre Kith at physical combat? Are they able to keep toe to toe with werewolves or combat vampires? 1e btw
>>46124317
True Fey were limited to a maximum of 6 in attributes and skills, and when they died, they lost that aspect of themselves permanently.
I don't know what rules you read.
>>46124317
>stupidly powerful and immortal
>complaining about some of the most powerful things in the game being too powerful
How are sub shop nightmares keeping you from getting a job?
>>46124345
They're agents sent by the Fae to hunt Changelings down.
Y'know, like they've been doing since 1e thus all the fucking paranoia Changelings are supposed to live with, but since 1e put 0% focus on it, Changelings looked like they were afraid for no reason.
>>46124345
True Fey no longer leave Arcadia, they get lesser Fey called Huntsmen to go and fetch them their slaves.
Then when they want you back, after your escape, the send the Huntsmen after you.
It completely abandons the personal touch, or the possibility that you walked into the Fey with your master willingly, only to realise the utter folly of your choice.
>>46124317
>Also, taking the fight to the Gentry is dumb.
Then why did 1e Changeling have an entire sourcebook about it?
>>46124317
>Hatsune Promiku is the most intresting part
The fuck is wrong with you.
>>46124317
>they'd come back with a grudge
Having them hold a grudge is missing the point.
The Fae are their own stories.
They're both the vorpal blade and the jabberwocky.
>>46124406
the sourcebook was about high ranking changelings and giving depth to the true fae, it wasn't all about going and beating them
>>46124406
What, you mean the "endgame" sourcebook which also provided the rules for creating your own contracts, courts, and eventually turning into one of the Fey when you reached Wyrd 10?
The Fey equivalent of Imperial Mysteries? Except that the Fey don't have some ultimate goal that comes hand in hand with their powers?
>>46124402
>>46124384
So isn't that just privateers from the original changeling?
>>46124474
Original changeling: The lost, I should say.
>>46124402
>It completely abandons the personal touch,
Fae don't have a personal touch. They're not people.
>or the possibility that you walked into the Fey with your master willingly, only to realise the utter folly of your choice.
What?
That's absolutely still a choice for a changeling backstory. If you mean as an in-play event then, I don't know why you're mourning the loss of an avenue of suicide; you can kill yourself a million different ways without rules for it.
>>46124474
Privateers are Changelings themselves. They're pretty much "evil" Changelings, like the Forsaken have the Pure, and the Pentacle have the Seers.
Huntsmen are pretty much the Fey saying, "I want them back, but I can't be fucked to do it myself".
>>46124100
>Using "progressive" like it's a bad thing
You... do know you're talking about Onyx Path's games, right? The guys who have repeatedly and explicitly talked about their commitment to inclusiveness and their support for social justice?
If you think "progressive" is a bad word please go play FATAL or something, CofD is not and never was for you.
>>46124470
Yes.
Taking the fight back to the Fae, in Arcadia, is the intended endgame of Changeling.
If this guy wants his version of that to be a mecha fight, why not.
>>46124474
>>46124506
Sort of.
Privateers were traitor-Changelings, which Huntsmen CAUSE (because you can help a Huntsman pursue his quarry to earn a mark that'll spare *you* when your own comes a-knocking), but aren't in of themselves.
>>46124517
The original abduction of most humans who were changed into Changelings was a personal interaction between them and their Keeper. It provided some deep insight into the Keeper and the Changeling themselves, who they used to be, as the Contract of Abuduction required the human to agree to risk being taken to some degree.
Now it's "oh, the Headless Horseman grabbed me on a road and dragged me off into the brambles".
>>46124531
Hey man I can hate parts of the game an like the other parts. The inclusiveness is still retarded but I'm not going to let that stop me from enjoying the good parts of CoD
>>46124531
>You can't criticize a direction a company is taking if they said they're taking it.
How did you even read the post when you're this retarded?
>>46124540
>Is the intended endgame of Changeling
I can't remember that being said anywhere.
Many Changelings may want that, but many more may not.
Plus, it hardly works for a group dynamic as a whole.
What, are you going to team up to fight the combined forces of all your Keepers in one big rock em' sock em' robot fight?
>>46124584
I think you are deeply confused. Huntsmen don't go after mortals. That's not their purpose. There are a million and one ways to become a changeling, and "got seduced into Arcadia by a Fae" is still one of them.
Huntsmen hunt Changelings. Period. They have no relation to how you BECOME a Changeling, because they don't care about you until you are one.
>>46124584
>The original abduction of most humans who were changed into Changelings was a personal interaction between them and their Keeper.
No.
Other changelings would offer mortals up to their own True Fae so they didn't have to go.
Sometimes people just wandered into the Hedge/Arcadia.
Sometimes True Fae just grabbed you for no reason.
>>46124357
pls respond
>>46124345
http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/changeling-the-lost/805704-meet-the-huntsmen
>>46124358
>I don't know what rules you read.
The ones in the corebook--where they're basically Changelings with Dread Powers/Numina--because frankly anything in Equinox Road matters less. I don't actually remember anything like that, and I know in some of the other supplements (that I don't own hardcopies of so I'm not going to download and pour through) they're given similar character sheets as the Arcadian Huntsman.
>>46124362
You can stalkerishly mock me about my mental illnesses, but can you actually read the things that I type?
That's not what I complained about. If anything I complained that they're too weak.
The game treats them as if they're sound and fury equivalent to Rank 6+ Spirits. Giving them crappy stats doesn't make it better, it makes it worse. You shouldn't be able to bop them on the nose and send them home until next Saturday morning.
>>46124406
See >>46124443 and >>46124470. Equinox Road is fine as a sourcebook for high level end game play. Not the default assumption of the setting, which should be putting the pieces back together and dealing with the world of occultism and faerie bullshit you've been pulled into.
>>46124540
>Taking the fight back to the Fae, in Arcadia, is the intended endgame of Changeling.
No, it isn't.
>>46124523
>>46124551
So then what are they?
More powerful fae creatures that aren't true fae?
Okay can someone fucking explain this sub shop nightmare thing? I keep seeing it and it's getting annoying.
>>46124656
What does Rick & Morty have to do with Changeling lmao fucking faggot
>>46124693
They're spirits of Arcadia's rocks and trees and wind (in a generic sense, not in the Spirits Of Spirit Arcanum sense), infused with the breath of life from a Fae's breast.
>>46124645
With enough investment in contracts they can stand toe to toe with a werewolf easy peasy in a physical contest.
Without much investment they still beat them in physical contests that aren't fights.
>>46124611
Did you? He's saying "that's a direction they've had since 1991".
>>46124584
That's not really true. It could happen, sure, but just as likely some other Changeling or a Hedgebeast or something would grab you up and kidnap you, or maybe just some other minion of the True Fae. The real personal interaction is the Durance.
>>46124589
If you have a problem with "people who aren't me get represented", then you really need to reevaluate your priorities, especially as "inclusiveness" stops being used as some pejorative buzzword.
>>46124540
No one is complaining about him wanting to do that. We're dogpiling the guy who said Changeling 2e is about taking the fight to your Keeper, which is literally the opposite.
>>46124717
Because Huntsmen are Mr Meeseeks.
>>46124717
Huntsmen are like Meeseeks.
They are created and exist for a singular purpose, and will go to any lengths to fulfil that purpose.
>>46124708
#JustStalkerThings
>>46124782
They also hate existing.
>>46124656
>but can you actually read the things that I type?
Yes, but since you claim you meant something else whenever someone points out how stupid you are it doesn't really matter.
Why didn't you just ask anon? Were nice guys, maybe everyone here can help you be less terrible.
g0fundme.com/3cqqbsda
Even I'd rather throw you some change than have your brother have to shell out cash to support your ERP hobby.
>>46124770
>Did you? He's saying "that's a direction they've had since 1991".
No he didn't. In fact a lot of what Onyx Path has been doing is rewriting White Wolf era stuff to be more progressive.
Even then, that doesn't the point.
I'm forced to conclude you can't read.
>>46124832
White Wolf was proud that people complained about the way they used female pronouns in their books. In 1991.
>>46124815
Wow, you really are a stalker.
Witchtooth best kith
>>46124770
Why would I want to be represented? I just want them to calm it down, who the fuck needs to be told, "Hey man you can play things that aren't cis white males!"?
>>46124912
>White Wolf was proud that people complained about the way they used female pronouns in their books. In 1991.
THAT STILL DOESN'T ADDRESS THE POINT.
>>46124948
>Why would I want to be represented?
It's not all about you.
Rolled 15 (1d19)
Test
>>46124918
That's not how you spell Soldier.
>>46124948
But they're not saying that. They're just putting people who aren't cis white males into the game.
>>46124912
YES IT DOES. The point that >>46124531 was clearly making was that if you are the kind of person who is turned off by ~progressive~ things, this company and it's games are not for you.
>>46124978
He literally asked why he would want to be represented, not why it wouldn't be about him. and >>46124770
said "People who aren't me get represented."
>>46124978
No, but it is about a bunch of white hipsters telling other people how to feel.
I am not a fan of the racist direction World of Darkness has been on since its inception, and it has not gotten better while they've started bitching about people not being inclusive.
Fuck that hypocrisy.
>>46124815
Oh my god this is hilarious, how can this dude still be alive
>>46125000
No.
It doesn't.
The point was made that you can criticize someone for doing something they profess to be proud of.
You said they've done it since 1991.
That doesn't mean shit.
That's not even relevant.
>>46125021
Uh... no one's bitching about people not being included. People are bitching that other people ARE being included.
No one is saying "rabble rabble the game needs more transpeople!"
People are bitching "rabble rabble the game has too many trannies!"
But WHY would you put people that aren't white males in the game unless they're hilariously racist cliches or sexualized vixens?
Those people don't even play our games, they're too busy being niggers and girls
>>46125119
Too many trannies spoil the broth.
I like more diversity in my games.
>>46125127
>Those people don't even play our games, they're too busy being niggers and girls
Duh, that's why you need to market to them.
>>46125145
It needs a more balanced level of tranny, shemale/futa, traps and whatever weird bullshit people can think of to jack off to.
>>46125119
No they aren't, that's not a thing people. We've gone over this like a billion times and you still have yet to produce a single such complaint, because they aren't real.
What people object to is the stupid fucking way it's done, not that it's done.
The stupid fucking genderqueer character in Changeling was dumb, not because they were transgender, but because their rebellion against gender was literally their only character trait.
The character in the hunter book was annoying because of the sidebar.
Etc.
The game has had people transcend gender since its inception, in fact the very notion of gender doesn't make sense when you have the Tzimiche, and people aren't bitching that those guys look a bit androgynous.
>>46125157
That's the point, blacks don't care about RPGs they're too busy shooting at each other
>>46125202
I know right? I want to be more inclusive for all racial, gender and sexual fetishists.
>>46125239
I demand more tranny black disabled people, that's the only way I can get off anymore! Thanks 4chan!
