Are you a Lawfag or a Chaostard?If you sit on the fence, you effectively agree to serve whoever has the bigger gun, which combines the worst aspects of both sides.
>>46083706
Jesus OP. You really hurt my head with that one.
>>46083706
But I don't 'sit on a fence'. I'm on my side. And the rest of humanity's.
>>46083706
> not making a stand on individual issues as you deem appropriate
> letting ideology trump reason
You are what's wrong with the world
>>46083706
Balance in all things you asswipe. That's what the middle is for.
>>46083706
Who pays more?
>>46083706
I suppose ultimately I'm a "Chaostard" as that leaves me to make my own decision without adhering to whatever bullshit some higher-up says is a rule.
>>46083706
JUSTICE
>>46083832
Fuck yourself
>>46083706
But anon,It is I who has the biggest gun
>>46083706
>If you sit on the fence, you effectively agree to serve whoever has the bigger gun, which combines the worst aspects of both sides.
If Law were to win then everything would become sterile and stasic. If Chaos were to win then everything would become incoherent and meaningless.
Serving the Lords of Balance is the most noble cause, always striving to maintain parity between the two extremes. The Balance supports whichever side is weakest until they are again equal. This is the only rational position for the survival and prosperity of sapient beings, because it brings the best out of both Law and Chaos: the constancy of Law mediating the spontaneous mutability of Chaos.
Quite contrary to your claims, those who serve the Balance always fight AGAINST whoever has the biggest gun because neither side can be allowed to dominate.
>>46084151
>If Law were to win then everything would become sterile and stasic. If Chaos were to win then everything would become incoherent and meaningless.
I actually feel that no matter what option is chosen the world would naturally work its way back to balance.
A Lawful world would start to have anarchy, people fed up with the system.
A Chaotic world would have people start to band together to survive forming a new hierarchy.
I don't think Law or Chaos is any more 'permanent' than Neutral is.
>>46083706
Make an ideology broad enough and it starts to lose its meaning, which is funny because I don't know what either of those ideologies are.
Preference for Chaos as it is closest thing to independence and free will, which is my guilty pleasure for rping.
>>46083706
How is neutrality the worst of both?
>>46085118
Because OP has autism and doesn't understand balance or compromise.
>Not being neutral master race
>Not fighting both heaven and hell so that man may determine its own destiny
>Not pounding that sweet Isabeau pussy the moment the dome comes down
>Being this much of a faggot
How does demon cock taste?
>>46085337
>>46083845
I love this picture way too fucking much.
So, can someone explain to me how that wholereincarnation and punishmentthing works in SMT?
I see a lot of neutrals in this thread.
I don't dislike you, but you're helping no one but yourself, and in so doing, limiting society's ability to help you.LG every day, pic related is not really my pov
>Both sides are the same! The answer must lie in the middle!
>Humanity must control its own destiny!
You never learn, do you? Don't you know what Hero got for his trouble?
Struggle all you like in the world that God made, and eventually you'll be ground up in His schemes.
Choosing the path of neutrality doesn't save anyone, it just kicks the can further down the road.
If you are to have any part in dismantling the Great Will's abominable order, you need to be willing to end this cycle.
>>46086166
>If you are to have any part in dismantling the Great Will's abominable order, you need to be willing to end this cycle.
Okay. Done.
>>46086166
And what else are you supposed to do when the only ones with the tools to destroy the cycle are a bunch of fuckers with their own agendas?
By choosing neutral you're not saving anyone, you're just forcing everyone in the game to re-shuffle their cards in game and draw a new hand.
All your opponents have much better decks than you, they can beat you whenever they want, yet when you give humanity another chance, you can draw a new hand and you never know.
Maybe at some point your opponents will get a non-viable hand, and maybe, you'll get a good hand for once...
>>46083706
SHOW ME WHAT YOU GOT
>>46086166
Excuses, unjustified resentment, self-justification, a rash desire to negate oneself...
I don't see any reason to join their cause, do you?
>>46083798
This. If we were trying to observe trends, I think there would be a tendency towards law. But no, you have to treat each situation accordingly.
That said Moorcock IS awesome and I am a 40kfag so I do appreciate law v. chaos in my fantasy literature.
>>46083706
>If you sit on the fence, you effectively agree to serve whoever has the bigger gun, which combines the worst aspects of both sides.
But neutral is not that, you turboshitsmudge overtwat of Fagonia.
Neutral is looking at both angels and demons and saying "yeah, nah, you both can go. And then you make them go, with liberal application of punching to every single horned/haloed ugly mug.
>>46083706
I uproot the fence at use it as a club to challenge specifically whoever has the biggest guns.
There is an order higher that I abide, and it is more wild and free than purest chaos.
>>46083706
I'd prefer to fight the thing corrupting Law. The force misleading Chaos. The glitch in the universe, the thing that's truly leading humanity to ruin.
I choose not neutrality, I choose the path that can save all of them best as possible, without falling for the trap of futilely trying to destroy one or the other. That never works. Law will return every time humanity craves order. Chaos will return every time humanity craves freedom.
The universe is fundamentally broken.
One must walk the long, tortured path to fix it some day.
>>46083706
Law and Chaos deserve to GET IN THE FUCKING BAG.
TAP-DANCING CHRIST ON A BICYCLE MADE OF FUCK HOW DO YOU ASSHOLES KEEP GETTING OUT?
It depends on thegame
Law in IMAGINE, Chaos in Strange Journey, Neutral in Nocturne,Whitein IV.
>>46087705
>Chaos in Strange Journey, Neutral in Nocturne,
You got those mixed up. Like really badly.
>>46087423
>tfw haters always trying to block your getter shine
>>46087709
To clarify, when I said Neutral, I meant the Neutral that involved telling all parties to go fuck themselves. I think the proper name is Demon end?
And Jimenez is a bro and Zelenin is an awful hypocritical harpy so I'm okay with chaos route.
>>46087740
True Demon Ending for Nocturne. And since you are siding with Lucifer to go fight God, its pretty Chaos.
As for Strange Journey, I agree Jimenez is a bro but SJ has the best Neutral route.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmJDhpZltbs
>>46083706
what side am I on if I believe in moderation of all things, including moderation?
And that the best lawful systems begin to resemble self-solving chaos?
>>46087774
You'd be some form of neutral.
SMT alignments are fundamentally broken, the games aren't shy about stating that Law and Chaos are both assholes.
The universe is fucked, because there's an inherent flaw in it.
Fix it best you can. You probably can't. But you can try.
>>46087761
Yeah, I play through all the endings and then declare one to be canon because autism. It just happened that I got the most satisfaction out of broing up with Jimenez and everything else was pretty much secondary.
Law > White > Neutral > ChaosReally: Neutral > White > Law > Chaos
Musubi > Shijima > True Demon > Reset > Demon > Yosuga
>>46087774
Neutral, probably.
>>46087808
Pro tip to expand on this anon's point about alignments being fucked:It tends to be humanity's fault because that's how we view things, apparently
>>46083706
>If you sit on the fence, you effectively agree to serve whoever has the bigger gun, which combines the worst aspects of both sides.
That's not how it works.
I'll sit on the fence and if someone comes to push me off I'll fuck their shit up or die trying
>>46087831
Basically yeah. Humanity's partially to blame for this shit too. There's a bit more to it than that but really everything is fucked and unless people start trying to fix it it won't get better.
>>46087896
Which is why Neutral reset ends suck and decisive Neutral ends where this progress being made is the best, even if its mostly riding on optimism since we don't actually see the aftermath in the games.
neutral route in SMT4 is objectively the worst ending. fight me
>>46083706
So this is obviously SMT
the fuck is going on? Why are there so many never ever YHVHS?
>>46087997
Worse than the Chaos ending?
>>46088029
the game's not out in the west yet so we don't know
thread theme: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSxaj3VGJ2A
>>46088029
Spoilershttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7FduDXerD4
>>46087808
>>46087831
>some form of neutral
yeah sure, okay.
Then I guess I'm neutral.
I just... think that things running well is more important than them running in a specific way.
>>46088032
yes, because it allows demons to pen humans in tokyo when they have the rest of the earth to themselves. chaos at least allows demons and humans to 'team up' temporarily and let the strong humans rise.
>>46088038
So YHVH is actually back? And there's a galaxy of YHVH's?
Rad as fuck
>>46083706
How about you suck my dick?
I'm on the side where you suck my dick.
>>46085118
Shin Megami Tensei convention, at least as far as the main series goes. Most major characters are either some degree of dick or tragically flawed, with neutrality and its representatives generally being in the latter group, and every ending is the bad ending.
Welcome to SMT, enjoy your stay and don't forget to kill your best friend for being a filthy Messian.
>>46088062
YHVH exists in every SMT game, it's just this is the first time he's showed up since 2. YHVH is the christian god and shares all his powers: omniscience, omnipotence, etc. He has no true physical form and he can create, destroy, and manipulate matter as he sees fit. The last time he showed up I believe he only fights you as a joke, since you literally can't win the fight.
>>46088047I just wanted to post that image
>>46088100
Back in the sense of he's actually in the game. You don't need to sperg out on splitting hairs bruh.
>>46088062
YHVH is notthe benevolent creator of the universe, The Supreme Will or something like that, but rather just the one who hijacked the last creation cycle.this is the axis on which the rest of the plot pivots.
i sure am hoping for a western releasecan we redeem this thread to be /tg/? i really want to play a SMT tabletop
>>46088110
thank u anon-sama
>>46088112
So he's literally the Gnostic Demiurge.
>>46088112
Are there even any good systems taht'd work for SMT? Or would you have to homebrew it?
Would we go the SMT4 route where humans can obviously bemore powerful or should it be like SJ where you're glorified vending machines?
>>46088133
Just use the pokemon system and write up custom pokemons.
Or mutants and masterminds I guess.
>>46088133
You know, in my last campaign, our DM let us have dragon companions that basically worked like Pokemon. With a little balance and tweaking, it wouldn't be that hard to work a Demon Summoning Program into some existing modern/sci fi systems.
As for your second question, I think it depends on the setting and the characters. Some characters, like the Demifiend and FMT4 FINAL's protag, are gifted with ridiculous powers. Other characters are just spessmehreens with some dope armor. This could be a class decision, maybe?
>>46088169
Is SMT IV FINAL even out yet?
>>46088177
In japan.
>>46088169
I think it would be a campaign decision. I mean, you can't balance Demi fiend and space marine in the same category. One can freikeugel your face, the other offers you a life stone.
>>46088190
>>46088214
>Flynn? Stop smiling
>>46088249
>>46083706
The problem with following laws is that they're ultimately just plain bad in both competence (you limit some actions from yourself which need to be taken) and sometimes "being good" and should be considered guidelines.
Being chaotic doesn't necessarily mean going agaisn't laws for their own sake, but instead ignoring them completely when considering what is the correct course of action (Of course acknowledging that not following them can get you into trouble) is the best option.
>TL;DR
Read this post.
>>46083798
>>46083847
>Justice is always a good thing
No, it isn't. Sometimes letting a bad person get away with it and simultaneously converting him to good (Which is kind of his punishment or his chance to "right his wrongs") will ultimately save more people. You have to be pragmatic. Following rules that will only lead to your own end is just a way for the enemy to know exactly what strings to pull to get rid of you. Ultimately you are here to preserve the happiness and the safety of the majority, and while you sometimes have to risk it for just a few lives or to show that we care about people, doing this too often means you are risking the lives of the many just for a chance to save the few, which is pretty much as good as killing those people whose lives you're risking yourself.
This means you have to be as good as you can be. Sometimes the game you play isn't fair. Cops can lie if they want to because the people they fight lie too. Sometimes you have to hurt people to help others because the choice of "hurt no-one and help everyone" doesn't exist, and not making that choice means even more get hurt or die.
>>46083845
Someone needs to update this picture to include the FINAL protagonist. Then it will truly be perfect.
HAIL ERIS!!!
>>46088100
>YHVH is the christian god and shares all his powers: omniscience, omnipotence, etc.
If that were true the games wouldn't exist.
>>46088100
That's not how I remember 2. You wreck his aspects and then he shows up and you wreck him. Besides the typical threat to reform later that all JRPG bosses gives he goes down like a bitch.
>>46088130
Which is weird because you fight the demiurge in strange journey and he's not YHWH.
But yeah, YHWH has always been more or less the gnostic demiurge. SMT is gnostic as fuck, and Amaterasu sometimes doubles as a sort-of kind-of Sophia.
It's a shame they don't go full gnostic with it. I'd much rather prefer the big guy in charge to be Bythos or Abraxas or something more flavorful than a vanilla "supreme will".
>>46083706
Allways Lawfull all the time!
>>46088366
>>Justice is always a good thing
>No, it isn't. Sometimes letting a bad person get away with it and simultaneously converting him to good (Which is kind of his punishment or his chance to "right his wrongs") will ultimately save more people.
Isn't the action of redeeming the guy preventing him from getting away and by having him 'right his wrongs' justice? Its like you didn't read all of the guy's post.
>>46088957
Adding to this, I think the only time they've ever actually mentioned the big J in any form was in Persona 3, with Messiah. Yeah Aleph was a messianic character and all, but he wasn't actually good ol' Yeshua directly. Very in line with most Gnostic beliefs still declaring Ichthys humanity's savior (save the ironically still surviving Mandaeans).
Fuck, delving deeper into Gnosticism would be pretty interesting now that you've got me thinking about it. It'd be more interesting than the shit the Xeno series tried with it.
>>46089233
>Persona 3
Mister J was present in the original Devil Summoner, which was never released in North America.
http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/Agony
Gnosticism is fascinating stuff, but I need to get through everything to do with the Kabbalah first, but it's such a slog.
Shoulda just stuck with Buddhism and Chariot Mysticism.
>>46089031
>Its like you didn't read all of the guy's post.
Admittedly, no I didn't. I had read it before but I forgot what he said after that.
>>46089031
>Isn't the action of redeeming the guy preventing him from getting away and by having him 'right his wrongs' justice?
Not exactly, you are letting him get away assuming he joins your party and becomes a good guy or at least stops doing this shit. That's not justice, that's mercy. I'm thinking ofAvatar the Last Airbenderhere, whenZuko, even though he burned down villages and put people in danger all the time, was made the heir of the Fire Nation anyways when he joined the team.
A lawful good guy would just put him in prison as soon as he surrendered instead of what happened. If you disagree, you are probably talking of a far more 'lax lawful good type than I am, I'm talking about the lawful stupid kind.
>>46089233
>More gnosticism
>You must form a syzygy to reclaim your godhead and ascend up the tree of life/Jacob's ladder to race YHWH to the pleorama and stop him from doing BAD THINGS
>In other words, to save all of creation you must waifu a girl and have sex with her
>7 different choices all corresponding to the 7 sacred metals of alchemy
>SMT:Waifu Wars
>Quest When?
>>46089286
Things get even more fun when you start to delve into more modern stuff like Thelema/Rosicrucian/Theosophy.But then you start to hate yourself because you read stuff that's been absorbed by New Age and wonder if you aren't becoming a crystal faggot
There's a lot of cross over between Sephirots and Aeons, even down to them forming male/female pairs. Its really interesting stuff and I encourage you to keep reading.
>>46083706
>picking sides
>trying to unite under a single ideological banner
Faggot.
Humanity is great precisely because it sits on the fence, and because each and every individual is different in his point of view.
Adhering strictly to Law or Chaos paradigm makes us lose what makes us human.
>>46089313
...Am I the only one that isn't seeing the big deal about factions? When has it ever been anything but a black and white game with two black choices? Merkabah wanted to kill Isabeu for reading manga. Albeit, it was some Rose of Versailles shit, so he was justified, but STILL. And Lucifer wants demons to gang bang humanity.
What SMT game actually has moral grey?
>>46083798
This
Even more in today's world were most of all information is free flowing. To not educate yourself and let yourself to be led because of authoritative power,(power that you grant to said authorities) is a disservice to humanity.
>>46083706
I like to think of myself as more chaotic.
When I take that online alignment personality test, I always come out as neutral good, but with a tendency towards chaotic.
I also think it's more about intentions than what I actually do. If you just record what people do and decide their alignment that way, 90% would just come out as true neutral anyway.
>>46089394
sorry anon, my personal calculations have resulted in a need for law to succeed in order for long term survival of the race to happen.
hail illuminati and all that.
>>46089286
>Devil Summoner
Huh, so he was, kinda! Never played them before, so thanks for pointing that out.
Thing about Gnosticism is that it's such a wide topic that has a lot of things thrown under a blanket heresy title. So there's a backlog like you wouldn't believe out there. Mandaeism like I mentioned is probably one of the most interesting to me because of just how much "more" heretical it is, and yet it's still alive today, even if it's in very small numbers by now. JC was a villainous false prophet, John the Baptist is the true Messiah, Jerusalem is the City of Evil, that kind of thing.
>>46089345
>Quest
You mean plotline to Persona 6.
>>46089345
>Alchemy
>Thelema
Now that's some good shit.
>yfw you realise Dante's Lucifer had faces corresponding to every stage of creating a Magnum Opus except for albedo, which was about washing away impurities
It's the little things.
>Quest When?That's part of why I'm doing all this reading.
But I'll probably never do it.
>>46089375
Nocturne is a little more sensible about it.
Of course, Hikawa isn't everyone's cup of tea and Chiaki is still shit because she's a Chaosfag, but Musubi and Reset are reasonable Neutral ends and True Demon is alright within the context of the greater SMT universe.
>>46089418
>JC was a villainous false prophet, John the Baptist is the true Messiah, Jerusalem is the City of Evil
Hahaha, what the fuck.
So where does this all fit in?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwCaZaSon9A
Law or Chaos?
>>46089448
Persona 2.
>>46089375
>What SMT game actually has moral grey?
What is Devil Survivor 1, Alex?
What is Silent Revolution ending in particular?
>>46089441
Moses and Abraham are rejected too. Also celibacy is discouraged and family and procreation are considered good things.
>>46089460
That fits far better than it should.
>>46086219
Which anime/manga/VN?
>>46089448
Basic New Age. A touchy feely combo of Theosophy and Edgar Cayce and Rupert Sheldrake.
More Law than Chaos, way more
The schema supports order over experimentation and error, spirit over body. It's right hand over left hand, receptive Venus feminine over assertive masculine Mars, Blavatsky over Crowley.
Totally Law.I would love to see something like this as the Law faction of a new SMT game. It would be something nice and fresh.
Also, the JLA representing higher dimensions totally reminded me of Grant Morrison. Flex Mentallo in particular.
>>46088133
I have run a game that was pretty heavily inspired by SMT using Savage Worlds. It has easy rules for extras (eg. your demons in this case), so that part was covered. A challenging part is the demon recruiting, as you can't really throw as many random encounters (preferrably none to be honest) in a tabletop game. Also, if there are many players and everyone decides to use demons in combat, the battles will have to be pretty big and time-consuming.
>>46087328
Bah, he only tells half the story. Time's MasterTrilogy by Louise Cooper tells the other side of that story, and Law is not the good guy.
>>46089448
>That monotheistic dick riding at the end with Akenhaten
>Liking the guy that trashed the cool Egyptian cosmology for boring sun god
>Humans are stupid creatures that need the help of divine beings to do anything other than shit and die
Maximum lawfag, not even a question.
>>46083899
evilfag pls go
>>46083706
The highest law
I'm definitely on the chaotic side.
At work I've always done things my way, usually it works and if it doesn't I lie my way out of trouble.
I'm actually kind of jealous of people to who(me? english is not my first language) lying doesn't come naturally.
>>46089780
I didn't think Moorcock ever made Law the good guys or wrote in such a way that the reader wasn't supposed to intuit that Law wasn't just as bad in its own way.
Society needs law in order to thrive and do great things, but absolute law is the antithesis of individuality, freedom, and critical thought.
That said, absolute anarchy is even worse so I'm probably closer to lawfag than chaosfag. Plus I end up lawfag in most SMT games simply because of the fact that "law" in pretty much all of the games equates to "don't be dick for most of the game".
>>46083706
Anarcho-Lawful-Good
Translation when?
>>46083798
>thinking every issue can be taken separately and aren't inter-related
No my friend YOU are what's wrong with the world.
>>46092652
Our GM just said fuck it and homebrewed a system using Pokemon Tabletop United as a base of all things.
He further said fuck it and made a Pokemon x SMT campaign.
Our GM is absolutely nuts, but shit's fun as hell.
>>46092856
I wish I had your GM.
Assuming we're going with Moorcock/Anderson/OD&D rules (Lawful is 99% likely to be Good, Chaotic is 99% likely to be bad) probably Lawful.
9 axis alignment shits everything up
>>46083706
they're both retarded and boring and of course everyone picks neutral because it's the only sane option even when it fucks you over
i liked DeSu2's commie vs capitalist approach better, at least there was a choice
>>46093176
2 didn't really feel anything like a SMT game though.
At least DeSu still had most of the thematic elements intact.
>>46083847
When you first see Star Wars, you want to be Luke Skywalker.
Then you get older and realize Han Solo is so much cooler, and you want to be him instead. What were you thinking, wanting to be Luke? He's lame.
Then you get a little older and realize that yes, you did want to be Luke all along.
>>46083844
Nope, you get to try and survive in a world of strength. Good luck with that.
>>46083706
The end result of either path is the same. Law and chaos are two sides of the same coin, and eventually reach an equilibrium. It is in this equilibrium that we are finally free of ethical constraints. It is in this equilibrium that we become as gods.
I do not sit upon the fence, for I am the fence, and thus do I destroy myself.
>>46089375
SMTIV FINALgoes back to a Nocturne sensibility of ending choices.Everything is roughly neutralexcept for the ending where you fight YHVH and stop the cycle of rebirth.
Even then, though, there are two ways you can go about it.Murder everyone or kill as few people as you can,or so I've read. Shows the extremes of even neutrality, which is an interesting choice for the series.
>>46083706
Neutral > Chaos >>> Law
I'm usully a Lawfulfag in roleplaying games, but in SMT Law can go fuck itself.
>>46083706
I couldn't possibly care less. I couldn't even care less what either side does to me anymore, or what happens when I die.
In the end, I'm just /done/. Every time I make a choice, any choice, somebody gets screwed over and hates me forever. So I'm done.Please just end it.
>>46083706
If it's SMT levels of Chaos and Law, I may as well kill myself now
But I prefer Katherine to Catherine so I guess Law.
>>46093964
white pls go
HEEEY GUYS WHAT DO YOU THINK OF ME?
>>46094024
>>46093964
reminded me to post this
>>46093209
Chaos ending was blatantly superior to everything else in DeSu, especially with the benevolent overlord route in Overclocked.
>you guys sort your shit out in peace, Imma go wreck YHVH, see ya
>>46083706
They can all fuck off, I do not subscribe to arbitrary ethical constraints.
I'm edge master. the razor rided by the snail. both chaos and law bend to my will! *cue smt IV boss battle theme music*
>>46094234
>Edgy
>>46094248
edge, fence, frontier, it's the same, im beyond the simple duality of chaos or law, bitch.
>>46094120
At least Law had Amane. I know she helps in the good version of the Chaos route, but the 8th days all felt like they cheapened the original endings.
The Neutral ends were pretty good too.
>Don't takes sides, be a pussy and run away
>Kick all the demons out through some really hard/annoying requirements and fighting the boss without demons
>Team up with your best friend that stays with you in all the routes to control demons completely
>>46094120
Aw, nuts. If only every ending shit on you, then it'd be a proper SMT.
>>46094248
demifiend is cute
>>46094311
Yeah Atsuro was a real bro. His neutral route is definitely among the better endings as well.
I really liked how Naoya turned out to be pretty bro as well. With you beingthe reincarnation of Abeland him beingthe reincarnation of CainI was really expecting some backstabbing dickery, but at least on his own route he was a cool guy after all.
Maybe include demons (at least the more humanoid forms of them. Demonoids in the II and IV sense) as PC options in an RPG?
>>46086164
>you're helping no one but yourself
> in so doing, limiting society's ability to help you.
What?
>that pic
>implying there're such things as good or evil
>choosing when you can just take,lie and flee
top kek
>>46086166
>The answer
>the road.
>implying there was some kind of question
>implying there's some kind of journey or final
>>46083706
Law now and forever!
>>46083706
>If you sit on the fence, you effectively agree to serve whoever has the bigger gun
>he's never actually gotten a Neutral ending in any SMT game
>>46083706
>tfw Steven was only relevant in SMT IV in the last two decades
Man, fuck Atlus. The guy deserves better treatment.
>>46095531
They've been limiting things from the first two games until now it seems. Maybe because Cozy left after Nocturne.
Final seems to go back and be the ultimate SMT fanservice game.
>>46095531
>The guy deserves better treatment.
And he got it.Being the boss in the coolest fight ever.
>>46085118
>>46092752 >>46083798
Seriously.
This postmodern, cafeteria-style approach to ethics needs to die a violent and public death.
>>46095712
>>46094332
Cute!
>>46095813
um, thinking that issues are interrelated is relatively postmodern. blindly adhering to an ideology which claims to be able to address the entire interconnected web of an issue is just dumb.
>>46095670
Is there a video?I'm sad spess isn't involved...
>>46096127
Nice try, Foucault!
>>46094248
First Pixie is best waifu.
>>46096175
He is.
>>46096268
Raidou High Pixie is pretty good.
>>46096175
No video, but see >>46088214 pic
>>46096272
Which game is this, anyway?
>>46096452
SMT 4 FINAL
Its unreleased DLC.
>>46083706
Law.
>>46096667
Huhhhhhhh. They really are going all out with the fanservice.
>>46096801
>>46096272
AWWW SHIT
kinda makes sense that he's supporting...
>>46083706
You are correct. Apathy is death.
>>46084151
Perfidious Albion!
>>46083706
>whoever has the bigger gun
only one gun in SMT, tho
>>46083706
I fight for Good, because Good always wins in the end.
>>46089448
>Energy mumbojumbo for 7 minutes
>The Hebrews are an alien race
>being male means you will die
>gender is a characteristic of the universe
I give up, I can't go on.
True Stupid
>>46084286
which is exactly what he said
Abstractions, that do not exist outside of the enforcement of such relative concepts by other people.
All is tyranny, all is vanity, so I'm going to sit on my fucking fence and drink beer and masturbate, but you go ahead and shoot me off my fence if it makes you feel like you're achieving something, anything even.
If the worst you can do is kill me, you've got no leverage and a bag full of hubris.
>>46098236
Can't do any worse to you than what you have done to yourself.
>>46098265
That's the spirit.
>>46098236
>implying you aren't worse than dead
>because at least the dead feed the wild beasts
>>46093589
The two are mutually inclusive.
Chaostards fo life fool.
>>46093589
>Nope, you get to try and survive in a world of strength. Good luck with that.
>implying alliances are impossible in a Chaos world
I shiggy diggy doo you guys don't seriously believe this.
>>46097239
>Strange Journey treated as if it were apart of the numbered installments
I quite like this.
>>46100009
Because Strange Journey was a) good, b) first-person dungeon crawler reminiscent of SNES SMT games with a proper SMT atmosphere, and c) really good.
Demonicas were a great addition to the franchise in general.
>>46100009
Strange Journey has pretty much everything you need to be a main series game... except no Tokyo. You need to be in Tokyo to be a numbered SMT game apparently.
>>46083706
>>46083706
Justice and Liberty OP
Liberty has a small measure of chaos in it, so I think your premise is retarded, but unless the law is unjust I will side with the Law 9/10.
Friendly reminder that if you DIDN'T side with Gotou then you are objectively a bad person
>>46093589
Honestly what I would go for in real life is different for me then what I would go for in SMT on average.
If you are like the demi-fiend or some shit then chaos is much more appealing. Because you are already top dog. If you are like some peasant somewhere then law will tend to be much more appealing because you'll always be safe.
Neutral is likely the smartest choice but SMT wise will always fall to one or another of the chaos/law extremes in time.
>>46083706
Order > Law
>>46092355
Except for SMT1.You literally allow the entire Japanese archipelago to be nearly wiped off the map.
Whereas the first big Chaos choice is totell Thurman/Thor "Hey, you know that big master plan that you had involving causing nuclear armageddon and nearly kick-starting the total destruction of Earth? Yeah, that's bad.
>>46105443
Funny enough thinking on it the white is likely the most objectively right side with the best overall solution for the endless spiral. Problem being of course it also involves you dying.
>>46097983
I dunno, it's got a structure to it. It's too coherent for True Stupid, I'd say it's just a very heavily leaning Lawful Stupid.
>>46083706
If we're talking life in general, chaos, chaos is self evident
If you're refering to your mundane accusations on politics and opinions...the one you don't pick
>>46083798
>>46084151
>>46085337
>>46087705
>>46087840
you guys seems to think that only the more extreme version of each alignment exist, but that's to be expected because if that's not true you Neutrals lose any justification and prove that op is right
>>46087345
>IMAGINE
are you playing on the japanese server?
>>46088130
no that another guy
>>46089345
>>SMT:Waifu Wars
>> Quest When?
I would definitely follow this quest
>>46094120
True but as >>46094311
LAW has the best girl of that game
>>46109352
> you guys seems to think that only the more extreme version of each alignment exist
If it's not extreme, then it's more Neutral than Law or Chaos, dummy. Only once you cross a certain radical threshold in your ideology that Neutral-aligned individual becomes Law- or Chaos-aligned respectively.
>>46109471
Law has some good girls.
>>46083798
well, this sums up my reasoning.
>situation
>use thought, based on own set of right/wrong
>make decision
>>46083706
What are Cromulons? Law because they institute organized competition enforced by rigid rules of life and death, or Chaos because they just seem to pick random planets for their music show?
>>46109490
so for you the DeSu Chaos ending os not Chaos? or the DevilSummoner: Raido vs King Abadom?
> Only once you cross a certain radical threshold in your ideology that Neutral-aligned individual becomes Law- or Chaos-aligned respectively.
not true, actually in many SMT including the first staying neutral is the hard thing because if you tend a little to one side you are already consider that side
>>46109592
I like how Strange Journey had Neutral 'Humanity' options so you don't have to be all wishy washy balancing Chaos and Law options.
>>46109352
What's the point of arguing for Law's sake if you're actually just arguing for a less-extreme Law that incorporates Chaos into its system? Same goes for Chaos but inversed.
If it's an argument for one opposite or another, extremes are assumed otherwise what's the point? Saying neutral is invalid just because neutral refuses the extremes of either side kind of misses the point of the argument topic.
>>46109898
see my post here >>46109592
also
>Saying neutral is invalid just because neutral refuses the extremes of either side kind of misses the point of the argument topic
I'm saying that neutral is invalid because it refuses to make a choice when there are options and because of that jus agree with the one that have the bigger guns
>>46109951
what if neutral has the bigger guns?
>>46109951
>it refuses to make a choice
But it doesn't? Where on earth did you get the idea that neutral (in the SMT context) is 'I'll side with whoever wins'?
>>46088366
>No, it isn't. Sometimes letting a bad person get away with it and simultaneously converting him to good (Which is kind of his punishment or his chance to "right his wrongs") will ultimately save more people.
Is there a more anime post on /tg/? This makes sense when you're talking about fucking Vegeta or any other villain who joins the good guy team, but it makes no sense at all when you're talking about real life killers in the real world.
>Sure he murdered his wife, but if we can convert him to fight for justice, he'll kill other murderers for us
>>46110013
>lol that makes no sense
Tell that to the war criminals who got off scott free because they delivered timely information or technological advancements.
Especially the japanese ones.
>>46109996
actually I was only using OP's words
>If you sit on the fence, you effectively agree to serve whoever has the bigger gun, which combines the worst aspects of both sides.
but even on SMT I dislike that people treat Neutral as the Golden ending because it negates ideologies and those are not always bad
>>46110070
I didn't know that there were real people who actually thought that it was a good choice to do that, the pardonings of enemy war criminals after WW2 were a black spot on American history done out of fear of USSR military power
>>46110111
pardoning people who did bad shit has been a necessity for all sorts of reasons like that since the dawn of human history.
>>46083706
Is it really order vs chaos though, or just word vs void?
Say, in a setting with 7 initial character that is going to handle a SMT treatment of world ending, what other neutral themed goal I could give to them? I mean
>Two will be Hero and his sidekick
>One will choose Law
>One will choose Chaos
>Three will choose neither
Its not really tabletop related, its more for a story I've been working on. What other goals you can pursue when the world is ending?
>>46111798
You could always have them go full White and try to destroy literally everything.
>>46111798
Besides >>46112418, two other neutral-themed goals you can use are "get everyone to peacefully coexist" and "set up a stalemate between everybody else".
>>46111798
> Say, in a setting with 7 initial character that is going to handle a SMT treatment of world ending
What is literally Devil Survivor endings?
>>46112418
Thanks. This had been one of my plan from beginning, just doesnt really know how to get this down with the characters
>>46112445
This will do as well.
>>46112676
This is nice. I've never played that one. Heck, the only SMT i've finished so far were both DDS and Personas *smirks*. I dont have that much console and generally dont really have time to play anyway, but the themes on SMT games always intrigues me.
>>46109951
>>46110071
>I'm saying that neutral is invalid because it refuses to make a choice when there are options
But you DO make a choice, you turbofaggot. Neutrality IS an option, you cuntbadger.
>>46112982
>both DDS and Personas
>Persona
>both
>>46083706
does Chaostards have grand churches in remote locations?
>>46113507
Fortresses instead.
>>46113478
L-let's positive thinking!
>>46113092
yes the choice to simply turn things back and change noting
Face it neutral is not really a option on most games
>>46113716
>What is Devil Survivor, Strange Journey, SMT 4, SMT 4 Final, SMT 2
You haven't actually played the games have you? They aren't all reset buttons, progress towards preventing the same catastrophe can be made. We just don't see it cause the game ends.
>>46083706
Reminder that chaos and order are spooks.
Reminder that the bigger gun will and should always win.
Reminder that you should have the bigger gun.
>>46113805
Isn't 'bigger gun should always win' the entire point of Chaos?
>>46113749
>Strange Journey
it just postpone thing in the neutral path as the games sais that there’s a possibility of that happening again
>They aren't all reset buttons
just most of them
and yes I played DeSu, Strange Journey, SMT3 DDS and 2 Personas (3&4)
>>46113875
The Red Sprite crew debriefed the world. Can the world change to prevent another incident? Yes. Will it? I don't know, but I'm hopeful.
Listen if we are going to go into the argument that Neutral is temporary due to human nature than Law and Chaos are just as temporary.
Humans will eventually get fed up with a Lawful society and desire change and they'll band together and seek stability in a Chaotic one.
The only garbage Neutral ending is Nocturne where it's a pure reset where everyone is mind wiped and no one learns anything.
>>46083706
behold this fuckers 2nd form and see how shi he is.
>>46113978
Bitching boss theme though.
>>46113875
The Demonicas in Strange Journey were at least advanced enough to let humans struggle through the Schwarzwelt with the DSP.
The neutral ending put a hold on the whole "everyone getting fucked" thing.
That means the next time it happens (if indeed it does) there's better shit on the human side, and potentially multiple planets with people on them.
>>46113824
Honestly, the whole system is completely borked to the point that I don't know. This is the fourth version of this comment, and the fourth answer I came up with.
>>46113824
Nah, chaos is all "knife the guy with the bigger gun in the back while he isn't looking."
Tell my wife I said
Hello
>>46113824
This >>46113805 is what Chaosfags during the 'game' want the world to be and are working towards it.
This >>46114027 is what will happen to those Chaosfags in the world they made.
>>46114027
Nah, that's just called having the bigger gun.
>>46114064
>This >>46113805 is what Chaosfags during the 'game' want the world to be and are working towards it.
Well then what the fuck is neutral?
>>46114092
Neutral is wanting the free will to choose (so strays away from Law), but doesn't want to go to the extreme of Chaos where you get millions of people killed cause they are 'weak'.
Its about humanity banding together, and making decisions away from the influence of devils, angels, and any other demon.
Its an optimistic faction.
>>46114092
In general it's just "you're all shitty options, go fuck yourselves" and throwing everyone else out to get as close to the normal world as possible, with liberal applications of extreme violence.
>>46114128
>but doesn't want to go to the extreme of Chaos where you get millions of people killed cause they are 'weak'.
Then explain chaotic good.
There are gods of neutrality.
>>46114137
How does that differ from >>46113805?
>>46114159
>Then explain chaotic good.
Sorry we weren't talking about D&D alignments but Shin Megami Tensei ones.
>>46114174
Oh, I was assuming we were on /tg/.
>>46114185
Afraid not. Sorry for the confusion. You can go back to your quests.
>>46114159
Neutral isn't "I'm right because I have the biggest gun".
The fact you eventually have the biggest gun is ancillary to any moral justifications you have, rather than being the moral justification.
>>46114159
>Then explain chaotic good.
Light-Chaos, as its called in SMT, would probably also go Neutral if the Chaos option is too extremist OR try to change that option to one that closer to their morals and ideals.
They'd probably have to beat Lucifer down though.
>>46089448
Dear god, this is absolutely hilarious. Somebdy make me stop laughing, I can't breathe.
>>46115583
It'd make for a good setting.
