>See those guys charging? A minute from now our marksmen will kill their tribe chief - the guy at the front who keeps the band together by intimidation. Right after that our spears will drop - line after line of optimally armored spearmen. Just as the contact will start, our armored cavalry will flank them. If needed, our officers will take action without consulting the superiors. It's how we trained these men. It's how discipline works. It's why beast will always fall to discipline and order. Its why Chaotic Evil is just a puppet, a stuffed doll, scary to the weak, but a laughable image to anyone with a pinch of organization and cooperation.
>>45698002
Oi wots dis a oomie dat tinks da boyz iz soft?
>>45698002
But sir, the Ork Horde outnumbers us 10 to 1! I'm not sure how long the men will endure this brutal charge and onslaught to come...even now their faces tremble with horror. Surely it's better to retr...erm, regroup and face them behind the walls of our City and kill them off through attrition firstm before facing them in open battle?
>>45698078
In truth, this is all CE has. Numbers. It's like Gauls being put down by Roman swords.
>>45698002
Infantry doesn't always have time to form lines or squares to recieve a cavalry charge. Cavalry can break infantry formations under the right conditions such as masking terrain, inclement weather, in ambush, etc.
History is rife with battles where tribal societies that have fought and won against technological superior, disciplined forces. But you didn't come to have a tactical discussion based on facts did you?
>>45698097
Chaotic Evil doesn't mean stupid.
>>45698146
Kek. Read up, pleb.
>A chaotic evil character does whatever his greed, hatred, and lust for destruction drive him to do. He is hot-tempered, vicious, arbitrarily violent, and unpredictable. If he is simply out for whatever he can get, he is ruthless and brutal. If he is committed to the spread of evil and chaos, he is even worse. Thankfully, his plans are haphazard, and any groups he joins or forms are poorly organized. Typically, chaotic evil people can be made to work together only by force, and their leader lasts only as long as he can thwart attempts to topple or assassinate him.
>>45698002
"It was then I decided this would be the best comedic timing for my Fireball."
>>45698134
CE. Stictly talking about CE D&D opponents.
>>45698002
Dear retard romanfag, an army without discipline is too chaotic to predict, and fights without fear of losing the ally next to them, thus ruining all their training.
>>45698172
That's nice. They are chopped apart in chunks then. CE army = Arabs of today. Bickering fools with poor tech, no training and fanaticism as only tool of any value.
>>45698160
But we all know DnD alignments are bullshit. I don't get how a let say 18 Int CE villain would want to make haphazard plans and is a poor organizer. Just doesn't add up.
>>45698188
Good point and I agree on second thoughts regarding this. How do CE and 18 INT go together?
>>45698170
Dont use Warhammer art for D&D alignment discussions.
>>45698134
This, if the cavalry are charging and there's more than a minute between them and contact with the enemy then they are just awful cavalry, I can't even really see Orcs being this bad. Whatever steed you're on you don't want to exhaust them with a prolonged charge, you want to maneuver your unit into a good position to hit them at top speed.
OPs description bears no resemblance to any army I've ever heard of, and also appears to be very reliant on marksmen killing the chief. What if they just wound him, or miss entirely? Could be walking your 'optimally armored spearmen' into a slaughter.
Rain plays havoc with bowstrings and blackpowder. OPs stratgey is 100% reliant on missile fire to win and that is folly.
>>45698002
>ZEE DOZ GITZ 'OLDIN DA LINE? A MINIT FROM NAO OUR DOOM DIVA' WILL STOMP DA GUY WIZ DA FANCY HELMET, DER BOZZ, THE GIT WHO MAKEZ DA OTHER GITZ FOIGHT BETTA' ROIGHT AFTER DAT, OUR HOGZ WILL STOMP DEIR PUNNY STICKGUYZ, MOB AFTER MOB OF ANGRY HOG RIDDAZ. DA GITZ GONNA ATTAK WIZ DA GILDED GITZ ON DA HORSES. DATZ WHEN WE CRUSH DEM WITH OUR FANATIC GUBBINZ. IF I GOT KILLED, DA NEXT BIG BOY BECOMEZ DA BOZZ, BUT I WON'T BE KILLED COZ I'M DEAD KILLER. DATZ 'OW DA WAAAGGH WORKS. IT 'OW DA ORC WORK. IT'Z WHY PUNNY UMIEZ WILL FALL TO SHEER VIOLENCE AND CUNNIN'. 'N NOW I WON'T MUCK 'ROUND FIGS ANYMOAR. KILL'EM ALL.
>>45698188
I see it less as a matter of intelligence, more that they just don't think in a logical manner.
>>45698097
Orcs are Lawful Evil.
>>45698002
That's a great plan chief! Now let's hope the men hold up. Bear in mind they've been feeling that charge deep in their gut for a while now, long before they heard it. And hopefully, those beasts don't collapse the line as they die, leaving a giant gaping wound in our spear line that the rest can pour through. Moreover, they're Orcs, so getting that guy that easy ain't a sure thing. Or maybe even a likely thing, if he's lasted long enough to be their chief.
Sometimes, hell more often than not, all the discipline and strategy in the world ain't enough to stand against raw fury and the storm.
Not that it matters. The whole thing got decided weeks ago by people who have full caster progressions and thus actually matter, and now everyone's just mopping up or putting together last stands.
>>45698097
Gauls overwhelmed Rome as order broke down
>>45698188
The 18 int CE villain is brilliant, but impulsive. His plans are in constant flux, and he can keep track of dozens of plots at once.
This is a weakness in establishing long-term power bases, but an advantage in being highly adaptable, and hard to predict.
The best smart CE villains are Bards.
>>45698307
>Sometimes, hell more often than not, all the discipline and strategy in the world ain't enough to stand against raw fury and the storm.
2500 years of history of human warfare disagree on that.
>>45698188
>>45698219
I honestly blame the fact that CE is just often used as an excuse for "worse evil" or "dumb animal, but it drops loot so the party will fight it".
Alignment is stupid anyway, but thats the feeling I get.
I feel like 18 Int chaotic evil would be good at making personal plans, small group tactics, and snap decisions. They can run a team or manage a group of zombies/robots/golems, but they just aren't cut out for running things long term or running big organizations(Which involves all of the mental stats).
>>45698289
Those two are pretty strongly related.
>>45698283
Poetry I love it.
To finish the picture of how military history usually goes both plans should work to an extent, both commanders should be killed and the whole thing should an indecisive bloody mess. This forces a subordinate on one side to take charge and engage an a campaign of brilliant maneuvere and be inches form crushing the remnants of the other side in battle just as the political body back home call them off because they've just hammered out peace terms.
>>45698289
But not thinking in a logical sense would be counter to that intelligence. Higher intelligence would employ better pattern finding and problem solving skills which would in turn provide for more efficiency. And that is implying better organization of whatever that you're trying to do. If what we consider is an "evil" villain is in fact just a sociopath with high intelligence than that would make him even more dangerous to opponents hampered by morals or "codes of conduct/honor", because from their perspective he would "think outside the box", employing and exploiting strategies and tactics that would never cross their mind. A high intelligence amoral sociopath persona is a predator of the highest order and it would be all but foolish to think that he wouldn't think his plans through. Being evil for the sake of evil or whatever does not imply intelligence, rather only stupid and base people would think in such manner.
>>45698325
>
And rome fell to barbarians
There's cases of both happening
>>45698327
That's a good point, being impulsive and unable to retain self-control would severely hamper any long term planning. Although, a high enough INT character would probably try at one point to maintain better focus and circumvent his nature as to not fuck himself over by himself. Would make for good character/villain development.
>>45698398
Did rome fall to barbarians or to internal weaknesses? Did barbarians amass so much "fury" they managed to crack Rome?
They were let in by Rome itself. This is no case for your "competitive berserker" meme.
The sand of the desert is sodden red, --
Red with the wreck of a square that broke; --
The Gatling's jammed and the Colonel dead,
And the regiment blind with dust and smoke.
The river of death has brimmed his banks,
And England's far, and Honour a name
>>45698414
And there you see the downfall of smart commanders, plotting, scheming and backstabbing.
A commander that leads by strength will be proceeded by one that is even stronger or just smart enough not to make the same mistakes
>>45698283
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGHHHHH!!!!!!
>ftfy
>>45698430
You have no clue about anything, my friend. reread what I wrote.
>>45698447
Internal weakness...
#Civilwar
>>45698411
Honestly, I think a better question is what a 18 Wisdom CE evil character would act like?
>>45698460
>>45698419
So ’ere ’s to you, Fuzzy-Wuzzy, at your ’ome in the Soudan;
You ’re a pore benighted ’eathen but a first-class fightin’ man;
>>45698419
>>45698477
Sir Henry Newbolt and Kipling on the Sudan Campaign, my word! I am pleased to see there are still gentlemanly armchair Generals and historians in our ranks. Too often I fear this place overrun by uneducated children with their Japanese cartoons and fantasy, dare I call them wargames.
>>45698002
>There is no such thing as a perfect plan.
>No battle plan ever survives contact with the enemy.
>If your attack is going really well, it's an ambush.
>Conversely if your defense is going well you have been outflanked.
>The enemy diversion you have been ignoring is actually the main attack.
>The enemy only attacks on two occasions. When they're ready, or when you aren't.
>Never fight a field battle when your opponent out numbers you, even if they're armed with sticks and rocks.
If they want to fight they'll come to you. Therefore park your ass in a fortification, not in the field. You don't have a fortification to hold? You're not as organized as you think.
My grognard
>>45698002
>Hey look a giant!
>>45698172
Actually an army without discipline is easy to predict. As in history in boiled to it fighting till it breaks. Victorious or not an undisciplined army always breaks.
>>45698430
>>45698398
Even when they were on their last breath. The Romans kicked the ever loving shit out of barbarians in open battle. Even when their ranks were filled with those very same barbarians.
>>45698002
Wait are we talking about Warhammer Orcs or are we talking about D&D? In Warhammer fluff the Orcs rely on huge numbers to win.
