How would you create a magic setting where:
>White and Green are evil.
>Blue is neutral
>Black and Red are good.
>>45556271
Wizards already did
>>45556271
a dictatorship run by racist elves that forces people into worshiping nature and generally hugging trees.
mind mages that mindfuck people into generally just leaving them alone.
the anarchy movement that fights the power on a semi-regular basis when they can be fucked.
or, kamigawa.
>>45556271
New Phyrexia, Kamigawa?
>>45556271
Have a race of people/monsters who live off Red and Black magic. White and Green magic are naturally harmful to them. "Good" is therefore what helps them survive and thrive (Black and Red) while "Evil" is what hurts or kills them (White and Green).
>>45556358
>>45556389
Now I feel stupid. I did not know the setting.
>>45556441
That other anon is wrong, Kamigawa isn't like that. Tarkir is like that now though
>White and Green are evil.
Imagine a more militant Selesyna. One that demands you conform for a conceptual and rarely elaborated on equality and peace. Even the most saintly of people must be overwhelmed if they don't conform with their ideology 100%'
>Blue is neutral.
Your average plane that doesn't mistake blue for black lite. Perhaps in this case, they are hermetic wizards who want nothing to with the raging war between G/W and everyone else.
>Black and Red are good.
Red becomes kindhearted rebels against the G/W hippie hivemind armies of doom. Black however, monoblack especially can never be good. They can side with the good guys, (perhaps they're fighting against the G/W faction because if that faction wins, they won't be able to exploit others then), but only being out for yourself is never good.
White green: a horrifying all encompassing world government where survival of the fittest is the only thing that matters. The weak are born into their role of servitude to the system
Blue: the ones who exist within the system but is not beholden by its rules. Merely observing it rather than interacting with it
Black red: the individualistic freedom fighters. Fighting to make their own way in the world and to forge their own empires by nobodys hand but their own
Some magical apocalypse or another resulted in the collapse of civilisation and the world turning into a deadly jungle full of megafauna or hungry bug people or whatever. So there's your Green threat.
Some of humanity managed to survive in magically fortified cities. They've been living under stifling martial law for centuries, ostensibly for their own good but actually to shore up a regime obsessed with control for its own sake. Behold, White bad guys.
The good guys then are your standard rebel alliance composed of Red firebrands and anarchists who want to overthrow the government and reinstate a world where things might possibly change, and a Black necromancer cult who look for the means to do it by scavenging magitech from the dead and buried cities of the ancients (they can do this with impunity because their death magic is one of the few really effective weapons against hostile wilderness).
The Blue guys are... IDK, the evil government's research wing who are genuinely looking for solutions and sympathise with the rebels but don't condone their methods.
>>45556271
White and Green are dirty Commies
Blue are ignorant fucks to regime
Black and Red are out casts who believe in a democratic ideal
>>45556271
Cancerverse. Life is exploding out at an unacceptable and uncontrolled rate, and its up to some bad ass barbarians and hooligans to stop the rampant growth which threatens to consume everything.
Selesnya is pretty brainwashy and dickish, not to mention that they got a shit ton of troops/members.
>>45556699
>>Black and Red are out casts who believe in a democratic ideal
>Black aka "Me first-The color" believing in democracy and the rule of the majority.
>Red believing in structured government and rules that apply to everyone.
Nah.
>>45556271
Green/White faction is an oppressive caste system in which you accept your place in society or die.
The Black/Red faction are rebels and freedom fighters who reject the enforced social order, and desire the freedom to live as they chose, to be the masters of their own fate, etc.
Blue are wildcards. Some blue-leaning folks work with the G/W faction, some sympathize with and assist the rebels, some just fuck off to their wizard tower analogues and don't give a shit either way.
>>45556467
>Black however, monoblack especially can never be good.
Confirmed for not knowing shit about the color pie
>>45556496
>White Green
>Survival of the fittest is the only thing that matters
Uhh... What? Survival of the fittest is a Green/Black thing.
>>45556467
>Black however, monoblack especially can never be good.
I don't think this is quite right. Yes, a lot of what we see Black as is usually evil, but when contrasted against, say, a Green-White collectivist nightmare, Black's inherent traits can appear very heroic. Black would be fighting for similar reasons to red: being able to be free to do as they please.
It may turn evil after its initial goal is met, but while it's fighting, it can very easily be considered good.
>>45556454
I wouldn't say that green is evil in Kamigawa, but Konda is white along with most of his family, and he's responsible for fucking everything up.
Lorwyn/Shadowmoor did this in parts as well.
Green was evil in Lorwyn. Elves as a society were obsessed with beauty as a concept to the point condemning those they found ugly to death. Meanwhile black goblins were just more prankstery than malicious, and red flamekin were perfectly normal people who were made of fire.
Come Shadowmoor everyone became dicks. The white kithkin became super xenophobic due to their constant mental connection to each other.
>>45556838
Survival of the fittest is mono green.
>>45557102
The card is. The concept is one of the areas where green and black overlap.
>>45556271
>Black and Red are good
>We want the Kill La Kill audience
>>45557143
Amen.
>>45557141
I do not see where it's black.
A stagnant empire versus a freedom fighting group locked in eternal gridlock
GW:
A giant three that keeps people into an illusion world, trapping them into cocoons (just like matrix) forcing them to live their idea of perfect world. Looking similar to karametra, the sleeping giant three is feeded by the energy of the people trapped inside and it is protected by white powerful clerics that also sleep near the tree raising a wall of spiritual energy.
Suddenly a blue mage (that just like any other blue creature lives on the clouds in a skyworld) decides to enter the illusion, bringing in the idea of other mana colors (rather than G and W) that was unknow to people trapped, just to have fun and to see what happens.
Blue-magex becomes a martyr, because the whites couldn't but kill such a free thinker. People who discovered Red and Black mana are now rebels inside the illusion:
Red people, ignited by the passion of red mana, aims to destroy the perfect routine of this world, claiming that anyone has the right to follow his instinct instead of obeying to the system.
Black people are now aware of what good and bad are, and they believe that a life without this balance is not worth to live, there's no true good in the world without his dark side.
The system ruled by whites and green soldiers is now in danger but still no one is aware of the world outside the three (except them).
The true war begins with the celestials coming down to avenge Bluemagex, the guardian of the great library, the archive of knowledge that cloud people always kept for themselves, living like an elite in the sky. The plan is to kill the three and let people in the cocoons die with it.
Is there a setting where everything except Blue is good?
I know Ravnica kind of did that in the sense of every single guild with blue in it was evil to some capacity, but I'm talking everyone dogpiles the controlfags: the setting.
>>45557000
Shadowmoor made the elves good, though. They're probably still good as a result of Eventide, too.
>>45556467
>black can never be good.
"I will not live as a slave. If you would be free, then fight alongside me" Drana, Liberator of Malakir.
GW comes to a land full of different B/R tribes to spread their lord's word and conquer this territory.
Blue People are just merchants or marauders.
>>45556271
Post apocalypse a-la poison ivy's assumed master plan. The Order of The Everblooming Lotus is a religious order of sapient plants and mushroom men who work towards endless growth and the extermination of all the unclean animal trash. The rag-tag survivors live underground, waging a secret war of rebellion against the plantoid overlords. Meanwhile, the hormarids/merfolk live safe beneath the waves, waiting to see what happens: they agree that the surface dwellers cause more destruction than they are worth, and it is probably for the greater good if they are destroyed, but they are unsure if the Order of The Lotus will turn on them when this war is over.
>>45556467
>Black however, monoblack especially can never be good
Sorin Markov?
He just wants to be a hedonist on his own time.
>>45556271
NotTsaristRussia, ruled by NotOrthodoxChurch, where the NotTsar has a divine connection to the land itself, and the kingswoods fight for him. Fighting against them is the NotBolshevikRevolution, secretly aided by NotRasputin. Blue is neutral... well that's easy, they usually are, there are loads of ways to fit that into it.
>Green is evil
BLOODTHIRSTY ENTS
... it's not Black because it's just natural that they feed on blood.
>>45559967
Sorin is black white now. He started caring about other planes, and his own beyond vampires ruling it.
He's better in orzhovs colors though. A better character for it.
What does R/W actually represent, and how come it's always soldiers?
I thought soldiers were all about discipline, which is exclusively white's territory.
I mean, I'm not complaining, (apart from the fact that R/W hasn't ever been good to actually play), but wouldn't red make it more for a proud warrior culture and not a disciplined solider culture?
What is the worst thing blue does aside from making smart people/mind mages?
I don't think I've seen the color blue portrayed negatively.
>>45564740
Patriotic fervor.
>>45564934
That's because the people who play blue would get violently upset if their favourite colour was portrayed as negatively as the others.
>>45564953
I'd buy that as a reason for it, but I just don't see red/white being the inherent combination of patriotism. You could do it with basically any colour.
>>45564740
Red gives them a passionate drive and implies righteousness to their actions.
>>45564974
Then how would it be portrayed negatively?
>>45565234
>>45564974
>>45564953
Cephalids were pretty negatively portrayed, if for no reason other than the riptide project being the worst idea ever with the potential to ruin everything.
>>45565387
Project Riptide?
>>45556467
Who is Crovaz, pre-cursed?
>>45565460
The blue faction in one of the blocks tried to genetically engineer slivers for science and profit. They were extinct at the time, but the Cephalids figured "eh, what the hell, why not?" It turned out exactly as well as you'd expect. Pic Related
>>45564934
Blue is deceptive and illusionary. It's dispassionate and manipulative. It doesn't treat people as people, but pawns and fools. It's the colour of ivory tower assholes who are too good for the plebs. That's how you portray blue as bad - it knows what's best for you and is going to inflict that on you, whether you like it or not. That's evil blue/white.
How about an ugly, murky, yet stable plane dominated by B/R magic being invaded by G/W zealots while a mono Blue entity chronicles the events with spies and pulls most of the strings behind the scenes?
>>45566171
Eh couldn't work.
B/R as a faction is the worst color combination possible.
![latest[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/2RM9Sh1.png "latest[1].png")
>>45556271
Done.
>>45567275
>a nation of wannabe Kaminas
It would last a day, either from self destruction through trying to out badass each other or they would ascend to a physical state beyond the rules of other factions.
I still don't understand Ravnica and the Guilds.
>>45562509
That was explained as soon as it came up. Sorin is only Black/White when he's thinking about the good of Innistrad; the white represents the responsibility he feels for his home plane.
It's a burden he's not always shouldering. Once Innistrad is safe and sound, it's back to blood parties and crack.
>>45567435
>guilds form
>guilds go world war on the plane's ass
>guilds take a step back and call for a time out
>make a magical contract to still hold power but no all-out war
>>45567537
Ah; I don't understand some of the guilds, and the Planeswalker Guides are no longer around.
I don't understand the Dimir.
I play a lot of L5R, so I understand the appeal of a sneaky underhanded guild and what they can do when used right. But unlike the Scorpion Clan, the Dimir don't really have a good reason to have been accepted as a Guild. They do what publically, archive junk?
Other guilds do that, and better!
Izzet are supposedly powerful mages and yet all named (and I'm assuming important) members are only Blue/Red. Am I to believe that one mage hasn't ever been like, imagine what would happen if I combined necromancy with X magical thing? Or the Rune magic to their dangerous machines?
They just seems like they don't live up to their potential.
And somehow the Orzhov and Selesnya manage to have mind magic without the necessary Blue to pull it off.
>>45567815
Formerly, the Dimir publicly didn't exist. At all. They were in the guildpact as the Outside Force, basically there to keep everyone else on their toes and keep them from getting complacent, because back when the Guildpact was originally formed Ravnica was just the name of a big city, which did NOT encompass the entire plane.
Post-Dissension, they've become the librarians, the news, the tabloids - any kind of information-based service is their deal publicly, while they're still doing their usual privately.
>>45567979
But they shouldn't have been considered at all during the New Guildpact.
>>45556467
Who is Senator Armstrong?
>>45564934
These guys were a-ok to you?
Just add blue to the bad guys and make wug want instrumentality and fuck free will and ambition.
>>45568659
No worse than any other faction on New Phyrexia.
>>45567445
He was white when on Tarkir, and when on Innistrad.
He even commands white magic in Lord of Innistrad's artwork, albeit a small amount. He wasn't thinking about Innistrad while on Tarkir. He was looking for Ugin. He was thinking about the good of the multiverse, not just Innistrad. He pissed off after Ugin smacked him in the face with an insult.
>>45564934
Blue will tear people apart to learn what makes them tick. Knowledge above everything else means they will profane and defile to just learn more.
Blue will also do complex tasks just to see if the complex tasks can be done, whether that's creating a doomsday device or starting a zombie apocalypse.
And that's not assuming "mind mages" aren't portrayed negatively to start. You know, what with the entire concept of negating free will at the snap of your fingers and enslaving everyone around you.
>>45568757
'No worse than any other phyrexians' is not a vote of confidence.
Anyway, if you read the early scars lore about e.g. vedalken you realise they were virtually complicit in the phyrexian invasion by being so naive about the glistening oil (and general threat phyrexia represented). Blue mirrordin xemplifies a lot of the negative aspects of blue mana: so consumed in their own backstabbing and scheming and lust for knowledge that they fail to actually act upon the threat they see until it is far, far too late.
>>45569267
>He was white when on Tarkir, and when on Innistrad.
>He even commands white magic in Lord of Innistrad's artwork, albeit a small amount. He wasn't thinking about Innistrad while on Tarkir. He was looking for Ugin. He was thinking about the good of the multiverse, not just Innistrad
You're making a bit of a leap, there.
Sorin doesn't care about the greater multiverse, but the multiverse is where Innistrad is situated. He is thinking about Innistrad and only Innistrad in his operations against the Eldrazi. He recognized that if they were loose, it's only a matter of time before they land on Innistrad and eat it.
It's been done.
>>45564934
Blue's negative traits are:
- Dispassionate cruelty in the name of 'understanding' (see: innistrad)
- Naive curiosity to the point of self destruction (see: scars of mirrodin)
- Secrecy and obfuscation; making things unnecessarily complex (see: ravinca)
- Over-deliberation and inaction (see: many examples including the original tolaria, mirrodin, alara etc etc).
>>45567275
Red I'll buy, but I don't know about black. I would be more inclined to say that they were red for the GAR, white for the MUH FRIENDS, and green for the BIGHUEG.
>>45556467
Monoblack can be good. You just have to bend things a bit more
Black is inherently selfish, there's no denying that, but that selfishness can be EASILY channeled to noble causes if you have half a brain
These are MY friends, this is MY home, this is MY country, and you fucks are NOT welcome
>>45564934
What are you talking about? Blue REGULARLY is home to the literal most evil thing in magic
So far, the most convincing idea for the OP topic is the G post-apocalypse "overgrowth" one. I'd imagine the RB factions would be a mixture of anti-W gubmint freedom fighters and monster-hunting, jungle-torching survivalists. B could just be people who are researching the strange phenomena around the disaster.
>>45569606
The whole "Muh friends" thing is pretty red as well, and it would not be that far of a stretch to have it show up in black too since they're YOUR friends
>>45569606
The idea that FUCK YOU, FUCK YOUR RULES, FUCK YOUR CONSEQUENCES, ALL I CARE ABOUT IS ME AND MY FRIENDS is very red and very black.
Black is very much allowed to care about others - they care about others in relation to themselves. THEIR friends. This is especially true of red/black.
Meanwhile, the entire Brigade is heavily antiwhite and antigreen - FUCK ORDER, FUCK TRADITION, FUCK THE STATUS QUO, FUCK 'SUPPOSED TO BE', I'LL DEFINE THAT MYSELF FUCK YOOOOU is how they work. It's how spiral energy works.
>>45556467
>monoblack is never good
Have you met Toshiro Umezawa? The protagonist of Kamigawa block? The monoblack guy? Ring any bells?
>>45569763
You make a valid point.
Something I'm noticing as I think about it is that the Spiral characters seem to have aspects of most colors, just expressed in different ways than the Anti-Spirals. You could make a decent case for any color being expressed by given members of the Gurren-dan.
>>45569841
I wouldn't say that they're necessarily antiwhite or green -- they want to make their OWN tradition and define themselves. Wouldn't that just be Black or Red as their primary color, mixed with whatever else?
>>45569861
friendly reminder that kamigawa was over a decade ago. wizards would prefer it if you forgot everything they wrote before alara ever existed.
>>45569967
Except the end of time spiral
>>45570051
no they'd prefer if you all just forgot that too. no one needs to know about that.
>>45570082
But the mending is needed to explain why planeswalkers are so shit now, and they need to explain that cause they have to explain phyrexia's history.
Also ravnica was pre-alara
>>45569861
Umezawa was for sure the protagonist, and he was working to set things right in the plane. But in the forst book his entire goals had nothing to do with helping others or doing the right thing. And most of his work to correct what Konda fucked up was mostly done at the behest of Night's Reach at the start. He was a likable character and did some good things, but I'd think of him as more neutral aligned.
>>45560145
Not Russia Set when comrade?
>>45569967
Wiz would also like you to forget that MaRo is the reason that none of the shit people want back will ever come back and we won't see much creativity come back or ever visit dominara or kamigawa again and only visit planes that are post mirrodin besides kamigawa.
That is until management changes. MaRo is getting old.
>>45567275
Kamina isn't super black. Guys who would die for their bros and sacrifice for the dream of humanity...well, that's not black.
>>45567815
>And somehow the Orzhov and Selesnya manage to have mind magic without the necessary Blue to pull it off.
White has always had a bit of mind magic, it's just different from blue's. See Pacifism for example.
>>45569394
I think he changed a bit between Sorin Markov and Sorin, Lord of Innistrad. He said to Ugin "things were easier when I only had my own plane to worry about" which implies he's not just worried about his own. His primary goal if of course to protect Innistrad, but he's the second oldest planeswalker. Surely he'd seen things before which could put his plane at risk, but didn't stop them because they weren't on Innistrad yet.
I don't know, I just think he's seen there's more to the multiverse than just Innistrad, and is more fitting of Black/White now. I suppose seeing how his arc continues with SoI will she'd some light on the whole thing for me.
>>45571783
To add to your point:
It seems like white mind magic affects how the subject interacts with other beings.
Blue mind magic affects the subjects perception or experience of the world/the laws of physics.
Accurate-ish?
>>45569419
Pretty sure protag is R/W and Kahn is Monoblack
Crazy nuns are Blue /White
Swamp people Monogreen
>>45556271
>White: dystopian dictatorship.
>Green: magical uberforest encroaching to devour civilization with it's monsters; inhabited by druids worshipping and helping it
>Blue: wizards that just want to nerd it up
>Black and Red: living in a hellish shithole, people have extremely strong culture of camaraderie with each other; strong guest customs and the like, they'll band together to help without a second thought; they use anything they can find to survive, be it undead or chaos magic or etc
White and Green both want to subsume each other into their way of life
>>45572059
I suppose so.
So you've got a giant, lethal Pandora-style wilderness. GW here are like a mix of Gaia's Stepdaughters and the Human Hive (minus the technology, of course), thematically taking after both ants and cordyceps. They roam the world in nomadic colonies, enslaving and brainwashing anyone that crosses their path, and stamp out any higher technology they can find.
BR are those stuck on the ground, fighting a guerilla war to defend themselves. They use fire and chemical warfare, not because they particularly want to burn the whole world down, but when you're up against shit like mind-controlling spores you lay down the fire first and ponder the long-term consequences later. Some are also looking into undeath to both protect their minds and to create incorruptible troops.
Blue, meanwhile, just uses their affinity for stealth and flight to stay out of it all. They're no fans of GW, but they are confident in their ability to stay hidden and therefore see no reason to get involved.
>>45556788
>Black aka "me first: the color" wanting to level the playing field while they're losing, and then trying to climb from there
What is "common god-damn sense."
Taking inspiration from Fallen Empires which basically had "good" and "bad" versions of each faction. White as religious zealots and green as uncontrollable thallids that devour anything in their path. Blue is merfolk/sea creatures, they don't really care what is happening on the surface. Black is thrulls that revolted against their creators, mainly just want to survive. And red is dwarves.
>>45570838
Is there even anything fun to do on Dominara again? I think it's been destroyed so many times by various things that it has sort of a perpetual END OF DAYS theme going on.
>>45556271
A water world where the people require the world oceans for life extra dimensional agriculture mage are trying to Terraform it, so the world's explosion and blight mage fight back. Explosions and blight = good guys, agriculture = bad guys, and blue is the world itself, thus being neutral. Boom.it's shit, I know
>good and evil
Swap the card colors to fit and there you go.
