Once again I bend my mind to how to 'fix' space marine terminators and vets as a whole and with your consideration:
Veteran space marines : WS4 BS4 S4 T4 I4 A2 LD9 Sv3+ Squads 5 men 100pts
(standard marine with +1A +1LD )
You may add up to 5 more Veteran space marines at 20 pts per model.
The Squad may take Terminator armour at +30 pts per model.
Terminator armour gives 2+/5+Sv +1S +1T, relentless, bulky, may not make Sweeping advance
If Terminator armour is not taken, the squad may take Space Marine Bikes at +7pts per model.
Or take Jump packs at +3 pts per model.
The Squad may be upgraded to Vanguard Veterans for +5 pts per model.
They gain +1Ws and Heroic Intervention
The Squad may be upgraded to Sternguard Veterans for +5 pts per model.
They gain +1Bs and Special Issue ammunition
(0 - 1) If the Squad is 5 men or less, and the Army has one Captain (or equivalent) the Squad may be upgraded to Veterans of the chapter for 5pts per model. If the chapter master (or equivalent) is in the army this becomes (0-3).
They gain +1W and Fearless
This is kinda the base of my idea. A general all rounder Vet, shooty Vet, and close combat Vet, with option of terminator armour. Wargear option would open up with different upgrades.
Nothing is set in stone, and I am just spit balling an idea here.
An additional 30 pts for terminator armor is too high. Necron lychguard with sword and board only cost 30 each. And a squad of them would still shit on terminators even with your buffs
>>44602964
veterans need WS/BS/I 5
terminator armor and storm bolters need to not suck
>>44603251
Terminator armor gives 2+/4++ and additional wound. Storm bolters are Salvo 2/4
>>44603251
The starting Vet was ment to be just that, a starting point, and for pts you can get your WS/BS 5. But why I5? Lib's and Chaplains don't even have I5.
>>44603285
I would make Storm Bloters 24" S4 Ap5 RapidFire 2
>>44602964
I know how to fix Terminators.
WS5 BS5 S5 T5 I4 A2 LD9 Sv2+/5+
Termie Armour adds +1 to S and T along with the Inv Sv, Relentless, and not being capable to pull off a Sweeping Advance (Tartaros however can sweeping advance).
Up to two models per five in a squad can replace their Storm Bolters with any Terminator-issue Special Weapons and add Cyclone Missile Launchers.
Storm Bolters are as they are, but have Shred. All models can replace their Storm Bolters with Combi Weapons.
And other Termie stuff that should be left (like all models replacing their Power Fists with Chain Fists).
>>44603639
>Terminator-issue Special Weapons and add Cyclone Missile Launchers
you mean or?
>>44604116
As in for example: two Terminators with Assault Cannons and Cyclone Missile Launchers per five models.
Four in a 10-man Squad.
>>44602964
Here's how you fix them:
Increase the points cost of every weapon with AP 2 by 10 points.
How can we fix chaos Terminators?
>>44604769
Differentiate between Terminators (traitors/renegades in terminator armour), and Legion Terminators (10000 year old demi-gods).
Nurgle T5
Slaanesh WS6
Khorne +1A
Tzeentch +1 invulnerable
Also make a buff for undivided legion terminators. Black Legion, and Iron Warrior Terminators that are 10000 years old should be scary as fuck.
I'm thinking for undivided buff maybe +1 wound? or is that overboard?
>>44605362
WS6? no no no, try I6
>>44604150
thats a bit stonk dude. 2 heavy weapons per 5 men? sure, like how its was 4thed, 4 per 10, again fine. 8 per 10? no, thats to much.
>>44604769
do the same, give then S5T5 2+/5++ as above and then give god upgrades e.g. +1T, +1A, +1I what ever
It'd be better to just overhaul space marines stats to be fluffy. Ridiculously powerful, but small model count army.
But of course that will never happen because GW would make less moniez.
>>44605362
>Atremenatar when
