So what happened to Warmachine/Hordes generals on /tg/? Months ago, there was always one up, and now they're dead.

Lack of new book/model/errata releases lately?

>>44443062
The threads turned to shit. We're better off without them.

>>44443062
Lack of models, players and vassal is shit

>>44443062

I think people are getting tired of book releases to upkeep their interest in the game. Especially when so many of the model rules we see can be potentially years away. PP has also made some bone headed moves this year that's put some strain on the relationship with a lot of the community.

I personally believe they need to shake things up with either a big balancing errata or fun new steamroller changes. Something that doesn't require the community to wait long or spend money.

>>44443062

What this anon said

>>44444456


also the holidays usually kill the fuck out of this game for some reason. Once we are well past new years the threads should start popping up again. People drop their hobbies when there is other fun shit to do.

>>44443062
Recent moves by the company are financially transparent, basically no one is getting what they wanted, not bad things necessarily, just not what people wanted.

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>>44443062
Salt overdose. At least in my area.

Also winter be cold and dangerous to drive in.

>>44444456
My biggest issue is that there is always an obvious choice on what to play. The end result is very predictable lists which translates to less of an interest to play the game.

Towards the beginning of Mkii there was a lot of experimentation and variation going on in the game. Now that the game has matured, the experimentation has gotten extremely low.

What this generally leads to is books that offered no releases that are actually considered usable and the releases that are seen as usable are completely ridiculous in comparison to other releases in the same book.

What we need to reinvigorate the game is either in use steamroller document that changes things up or a MKiii. I think PP is going for the former option, since the latter is getting progressively harder to do as the game expands.

I for one hope that the game ends up picking steam again on a global level instead of just pockets here and there. The rise of X Wing is particularly concerning in my area since nearly all of our players decided to abandon Warmachine in favor of X Wing and Armada.

>>44444456
New to the game. What has PP done this year aside from errata?

>>44445334
Choice of models made. Production of certain beast and jack kit delay that the factions needed. No support to the underplayed stuff. Even more light warbeast spams inbound.
Errata that pushed for colossals harder with zero incentive for jacks.
Shaky ADR for the future seasons in terms of balance and champions format.
competative season being pushed to lock and load as the start.

Lot of the current dullness is a culmination of those things.

>>44445223
>My biggest issue is that there is always an obvious choice on what to play.

yup

>he releases that are seen as usable are completely ridiculous in comparison to other releases in the same book.

I really wish they would stop releasing character units, they are almost always fucking absurd and become the only real option.

Ruin, Beast 09, Spriggan, Conquest, Behemoth, and the Devestator are really the only options for Jacks in Khador unless you've got this niche like putting watcher on a Grolar or Drago with Vlad.

I own every jack in khador, its ridiculous how little play time my marauder/destroyer/kodiak/berserker (which have existed a decade or more) have seen compared to something like Ruin which came out just this year.

>>44445661
I absolutely hate ruin for invalidating everything in the juggernaut chassis.

So I'm guessing it's not a good time to try and start interest in Warmahordes in my area?

I live in a rural, mostly blue-collar area with one LGS. We had an anemic 40K community that died off due to the initial investment, and Warmahordes seems more in line with what folks' wallets can handle.

The LGS owner isn't interested in running a Journeyman league, but I figured I could get folks interested with battle boxes, and maybe pushing for the German style 36 point lists?

Anyone got experience with similar? Do the 36 point lists fall into the same "You gotta take this to git gud" problem the anon above mentioned?

>>44445984
If you don't mind that the factions all have something like that, yeah it's a great game to play.

It only becomes an issue when you have played long enough to just get bored with the status quo. The path to get there is insanely fun.

If everyone plays casual its a great budget game, it's only when accidental tryhards get into the mix that it starts to drain, since the good stuff strongly pushes the hand of the opponent to play certain ways/models.

The one thing to keep in mind is that in Warmachine, most of the time there is an outlet to win. Doesn't always mean it's the best option but there is an outlet.

A SlowGrow is a perfect way to learn the game. I strongly suggest that path.

>>44446068
Is Hordes in the same sort of situation ATM?

Last I payed any attention to it, the Orboros was having the time of their life sniping warcasters/warlocks with multiple teleports.

>>44445984
The game itself is fine. You have to remember that we've been at this game from the start and looked at a large collection of competitive data and witnessed the meta changes first hand.
All of us are basically bitching about the frosting on the cake without acknowledging the cake

>>44446254
Multiple teleport is dead. Models can only be teleported once now

>>44446326
That's nice to hear but how is the game's balance?

>>44446343
Still good. Mercs, minions convergence suffer in selection but the game is largely balanced.

I think big problem is that no tabletop company could keep up with the pace of tournament play in this age at the scale of Warmachine. Maybe GW could but they'd have to actually care. A few years ago someone would win a con with a list and if you were lucky you could find the exact list online, now someone wins a regional event you never heard of and it's on Discount Games, Facebook, and being discussed on a dozen different podcasts. Within a week that list has gotten played more globally then any single model ever sees in playtesting and with PP designing two years in advance there's no way for them to realistically predict what a faction might be lacking in the future meta.

The issue is that it's become like baseball with a million different "big name" commentators whose opinions a lot of people subscribe to except unlike baseball you too can built the Winning List™ and be just like the pros! Without being able to constantly push releases like Magic (cards are quicker to print than models) or do monthly patches and old content reworks like LoL or DotA I'm not really sure what they can do about it. They could do more frequent errata, sure, but unless they can justify hiring more designers just for that it would further slow down new releases.

>>44446343

Pretty Solid with the following caveats:

1. It is very hard to "Snowflake" in this game. There are options (within faction!!!) that are simply the best/easiest to use if you are aiming for full competition. That coolest casters are more likely than not, to be hard to use or not have enough tools to be effective.

2. You will see a lot of repetition. I mean a lot. Think MTG, where you don't see X Archetype build outside of Elves. In Hordes, you won't see X Archetype outside of Trollbloods.

Expect to have to buy into an entirely different army/faction if you want to change your playstyle or interactions AND are competitively minded.

All this only matters if you want to get into the deep deep well of competitive play, and most learning material out there has competitive play as it's main focus. The game would not have that much material if it were not balanced on at least some level.

>>44446411
>>44446500
Thanks, anons.

>>44446649
The game is a ton of fun to get in to and learn, but like any game after a few years you'll start seeing the cracks and maybe forget why you started. You're never going to find a game that old timers don't have complaints about, and Warmachine is better than most baring the hyper-competition scene.

Hell, I played tournaments hard for two years before I got burned out and started just playing stuff I enjoyed again and it's like a whole new game.

Rural anon here.

Now for the important question: How do I trollblood moshpit, assuming I start with the battlebox?

>>44447159
Acquire krielstone with elder, janissa stone tide.

After this acquire these models in any order you choose. Earthborn dire troll, mulg the ancient, warders, champions with skaldi, champ hero, mauler/pyre/slag troll, runebearer, fell caller

>>44446452
I believe no game in this information age can avoid this death spiral.

Eventually all games advance to the point that only formerly outlier stuff will get used.

>>44447359
Maybe, MAYBE if you launched game and all the rules were digital and you made it clear that erratas will happen for the simple sake of change it could work. But then you'd have such a bitch of a time marketing a tabletop that also requires a few hundred dollars of electronics that you likely wouldn't be around long enough for it to matter. I think trying to convert an existing game to that would lose too many players to be worth it, though maybe a smaller one like Malifoux or Dropzone could pull it off.

>>44447945
You probably shouldn't be spending hundreds of dollars on a miniature game if you can't also afford a simple computer and internet connection

>>44447945

Golem Arcana is sorta kinda like this. The digital updates are nice and the game itself is fun, but it's sort of just stuttering along at the moment.

>>44445984
>The LGS owner isn't interested in running a Journeyman league

Terrible business decision

>German style 36 point lists

after a few months you and your group will figure out that its a big game of rock paper scissors and you will move on to 50pt games.

>>44448093
Just because they can doesn't mean they want to, lots of people would rather spend that money on models, snacks, hobby supplies, etc then a tablet they'll only use for one tabletop game.

>>44447945
You run into the same problem as video games.
Those are never properly balanced despite having all the resources in the world and a fixed unit set.

Your entire lifehood depends on adding new stuff into the system.
It is a doomed endeavor from the get go.

>>44449450
Well that's why no company in their right minds makes only one game.

>>44449450

It's the same problem for every game though. You have to keep on adding models to change the game or else things stagnate.

It's not much different aside from one is instant and the other requires a purchase of another unit. Both will invalidate your original purchase but one takes a lot longer to actually release.

Meh. I guess it boils down to the crowd you have around your game.

>>44449497
PP is terrible at game design though. They tried, but it's painfully obvious that their think tanks are limited in scope and the company is notorious for treating any talent like shit.

>>44445223
X-wing is a tough one to beat. Unlike warmachine, if something sucks to hard, an aces kit can just be released to patch it, and with smaller releases they have less play testing time. Add to the fact that it encourages competitive builds and is star wars brand and its a tough one.

>>44449816
It feels like they have just gotten a lot lazier in the general design department.

>>44449970
That's what hubris and poor management does to ya

>>44449816
Level 7: Omega Protocol and Invasion was pretty good.

I'd like to see PP try their hand at a SciFi setting for a miniatures game ALA Space Mordheim or similar.

Monsterpocalypse was also my preferred game before the game just up and died due to the legal game of limbo it got caught up in.

PP has had plenty of talent the last few years. Emphasis on "had". They really do treat their workforce like shit... Granted from all the stories I hear directly from former workers.

Still. I love me some Warmasheen and Huuuurds.

>>44449970
I feel like they have a lot of potential development though. I'd love to see more cephalyx/convergence, and to see each faction break out of their pidegonhole. Give khador a recon jack, surely they'd have something medium size to scout through all this impenetrable forest they go on about. Maybe give cygnar something gunpowder related instead of constantly lightning.

Well, I'm really happy the Blindwalker is coming out before the Inflictor.

>>44449970
I wish they had the balls to go through with the time skip that was rumored a while back. It would be cool to see a jump that puts the current stock of journeymen in center stage and opens up some tech development. Create an era system ala Flames of War and now Cygnar is split between Letos loyalists and the Vinters heir, the Protectorate has splintered into subfactions with the death of Sevarious, and Khador and Umbrey are in a state of cold war

>>44450350
>Stuff actually happening
>Stuff actually changing

I would be fucking ecstatic!! I may even play Cygnar!!

>>44450496
Whoa slow down there southerner/heretic/meat fuel/lying/betrayer/civilized scum, lets not go crazy

>>44450053

I agree, the biggest issue is that both those factions feel really good as is, but they are fated to go away from relevance as long as other games keep on going.

>>44444456

I'll also add on that the game meta has been stale as fuck for way too long.

Start of Mk2 high Def was the boogie man to beat. Then PP added colossals and shook up the meta again, and we had a year or two where generalists were king and most of the factions could talk pretty much whatever they want as long as they had a list to deal with Cryx.

Ever since the highARM/highboxes meta came in though it's been complete torture trying to come up with balanced lists to compete with skews. Getting rid of three lists in Masters was the final nail in that coffin. PP has really done nothing to shake this up. You HAVE to build against certain skew lists, and if you're on the wrong side of the faction power curve then you suffer heavily for it.

>>44453305
I think they could do it if they made SR2016 with fewer centralized objectives. Bring back some of the more spread out scenarios now that the Denny2 and Haley2 boogymen are gone and you deal a blow to the brick lists. Back when I started no one played trolls cause you had to spread too much, no reason you can't make scenarios that make that a concern again.

>>44445758
the juggernaut chassis was already invalid. the whole thing. fucking garbage.

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>>44445758
>>44454191
>Not playing the amazing 7 point Juggernaut

Get the fuck out of this thread you scrubs

Trollblood salt is going to increase soon.
As will Menoth salt but their salt will calm a bit shortly thereafter.

>>44442599
Cyriss reporting in. Just bought a whole 35 pnt Snytherion army. Synergy mode engaged.

>>44455946
>As will Menoth salt but their salt will calm a bit shortly thereafter.
I-Is the indictor ugly as fugg? or even worse
they scrapped it entirely and replaced it with an alt purifier sculpt

>>44456864
You're getting something you'd never expect you're getting soon. A few things are seeing adjustments. But one of your staples is taking a significant hit.

Which is better?
15 def 14 arm
or
14 def 18 arm

>>44457039
>>44457039
Depends. Def 15 is often gonna require 8s to hit, but at Arm 14, its still vulnerable to blasts. Def 14 but Arm 18 is gonna take 7s to hit but will be able to shrug off Pow 10s more commonly. Its also further complicated by wound amount. A Def 14/Arm 18 is gonna be really strong if its a multi-wounder with access to arm buffs.

I want to Karchev, teeg. Specifically, I want to theme list him because 4 point Mad Dogs seems fucking sweet and I don't care if I lose.

One problem: PP's shit-ass-dick-ass release schedule. Do we have even sort of an idea about Mad Dogs getting a model? Maybe a plastic set for the berserker chassis now that there are some variants?

My FLGS is doing a Journyman starting in January, and I want to play Khador. Any advice? Starting options are. . .

Sorscha1 + Destroyer + Juggernaut
Butcher 1 + Decimator + Kodiak
Strakhov + Marauder + Spriggan

I feel like Sorscha and Butcher are both workable, and Strakhov + Spriggan is a really good combo (but the Marauder is just a paperweight point sink I'll be stuck with for 5 out of 6 weeks). I don't know which way to go~

>>44456967
I know you're trolling probably due to boredom, but I'm bored too. Indulge us.

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>>44455946
>>44456967

>>44457335

Played all three.

Sorscha is workable onlu because of her ridiculously long threat range and feat. You will struggle against the warnouns who can take a punch. I felt every game was me looking to finegle a win rather than play an honest game.

Strakov looks good on paper, heaven piercing spear just doesnt happen in small games. Stay away from this box.

Butcher is the most competitive, he can reliably solo two heavy warjacks by himself. Your first week the win condition is kill all enemy jacks/beasts or caster kill. You can walk butcher up full camp and your two heavies, take the alpha cause khador tough, then have butcher pop feat and kill what desperately tried to kill you last turn.

Some interesting interactions in the bg: kodiak has pf which butcher cant hand out. Kodiak can create clouds for butcher. Kodiak can knock shit down with hits combo attack, the decimator can finish it off with its canon. The decimator hits ridiculously hard with its gun on feat turn.

At 15 points you can add andy and a wardog. Andy can take control of the decimator and put it to work and if necessary sac pawn onto butcher who should be around armor 23 or 24. At tgis point everything in your list can become a serious problem, everything is a threat. A wardog with fury on feat turn can seriously fuck up a warcaster. Its silly, but it happens. Journeyman leagues are great for that sort of shit.

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I dont know if anyone here plays tabletop sim but i use it to play 40k primarily and i stumbled upon a warmachine video and it looked interesting, except that they had some kind of lamenated card with a huge spiral that they marked with marker, my question is how important that card/spiral is. Can you comfortably play warhahordes digitally?

>>44455946

I don't even know what that means? Does that mean that Trollbloods and Menites are getting nerfs/changes to make everyone else salty

-or-

Does it mean that Trollbloods and Menites are going to BE salty because they are getting changes to their usual auto includes?

>>44458630
The second.

>>44458015
Yes, you can play it comfortably digitally. There is a phone/ tablet app called War Room that servers the purpose of the cards.

The card with a spiral you saw was a warbeasts damage grid. Players laminate them or use card gloves to protect their cards for re-use. By marking damage taken onto the damage grid, players get to see just how badly wounded the warbeast is, and exactly what it'll be able to do next round after having it's ribs kicked in and it's spirit broken.

>>44458713
Neat!! I look forward to the changes to the Book and Choir for Menoth.

I'll also look forward to the changes to that god damn Krielstone.

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potato quality pics of my lastest model

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>>44460163

>>44444456
I haven't been paying a huge amount of attention to the game for a while, what happened?

>>44447945
>also requires a few hundred dollars of electronics
It's quite possible to make a living rulebook that runs on anything with a screen produced this millennium. Warroom is far from it though.

>>44457039
>trade 1 DEF for 4 ARM
Not really a question.

>>44460169
Nice, anon, I like it. Is the stone as dark as it seems to be?

>>44458836
>I'll also look forward to the changes to that god damn Krielstone.
>Implying they'll ever change a unit that the entire faction relies on
>Implying there's even a problem

Cryx player here.

Sure, butch about high arm all you want but there isn't a change that they could masks that wouldn't fuck the entire faction. They'd have to rebalance a ton of stuff

>>44442599
this chart is truly terrible.

>>44462707
It's accurate

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i am trying to figure out what models to get for my Legion of Everblight but don't know where to start. Normally i would just read a codex and say that is cool but I don't know what the equivalent of those re for this game.

>>44463390
Forces of Hordes: Legion of Everblight is a good start for most everything in the faction, after that it's the Domination, Gargantuan, Exigence, and Devastation expansions. Battlecollege also has good overviews of models and the WarRoom app on iOS or Android will give you the rules for the whole faction's rules for 7 bucks.

I'm going to be running my group's first Iron Kingdom game this Saturday.

I don't think I have any 32mm base minis, are there any common alternatives we could use?

>>44463932
Use whatever you want, it's not a huge huge deal in the RPG IMO. Anything somewhat close is just as good.

>>44462707
I agree, under cryx it makes no mention of their position as the heroes of the setting!

>>44462376
You are probably right, but I'm going off of the Circle nerf. All their heavies were costed according to those shifting stones right? They still got nerfed.


I don't think they'll make a nerf to the stone, but I wouldn't put it past PP right now.

>>44464066
Circle heavies weren't really balanced around the double teleport. That's why the stones got nerfed. The Stalker and Ghetorix were just a little too OP

>>44464172
Well PP didn't want to nerf the actual problem and decided to nerf the support is what I'm getting at.

We all know Warders are dumb, but rather than nerf Warders they will probably nerf the stone. I'm just not fully confident in PP anymore.

The most likely thing that will make Troll players mega salty would be nerfs/changes to themes.

>>44464244
I never saw Warders as being particularly dumb. They're slow and only have have one attack. Just hit them with weapon masters and they disappear without a problem. If you're trying to shoot them to death you're doing it wrong

>>44464172

You're seriously overselling people's perception of the power of trolls and menoth if you thonk a krielstone or choir nerd is incomming.

>>44464293

Not everyone has reliable weaponmasters. The investment to take them out is nearly always higher than what they cost for nearly everyone except Cryx.

Meh.

>>44464378
I'm curious who doesn't have the ability to deal with them. Everyone has an answer except maybe Minions

>>44464362
The only way I can see a Choir nerf is if Warjacks get a universal baffu.

>>44464396

How bout you list the factions aside from Cryx and Skorne that can deal with them without breaking a sweat?

You most likely won't kill them all, so you will get a retaliatory strike nearly every time. Whatever you throw at them will either die afterwards or suffer crippling damage. Which has been my experience nearly 100 percent of the time.

>>44464362
Everybody hates trolls. People have hated the faction for ages because they can't handle tough. This only got worse once the faction started to finally win events.

>>44464481
Sure, off the top of my head while board at work

Cygnar has weapon masters or high pow melee infantry or alternatively can control them to insignificance

Khador has cheap infantry and weapon masters

Menoth has weapon masters and high powered, durable jacks

Cryx doesn't give a fuck about trolls

Mercs have weapon masters and damage buffs

CoC floods the board with a billion dudes or plays Lucant

Ret has weapons masters but probably has a hard time

Trolls have Madrak2 and whatever they feel like running with him

Legion is Legion and has amazing beasts. The Blight Bringer and Thagrosh can make Ogrun murder Warders

Skorne have weapon masters and Karn

Circle has weapon masters and high powered beasts with high defense

Minions has Rask and Carver

Only faction I can think of that doesn't have an easy answer is Ret. Oh well, Ret sucks. What else is new?

>>44464599
This guy wins. Warders are fun to play against and are completely normal. They are point and clicked removed by every faction trivially with common units that are relevant and usually taken. Their armor is not too high and their abilities on their cards are perfectly balanced with their tradeoff of speed.

Every time I placed Warders on the field they have been removed from the table one hundred percent of the time without doing anything or forcing my opponent to react negatively to their presence. Granted... Their dice had to spike a bit,
but that's the game. :^)

>>44464840
Of you weren't trying to be a shitlord this is mostly accurate. You need to take stuff to counter other stuff. That's how the game and metas evolve.

Stuff like Doom Reavers and Hammerdorfs kill Warders. Why people don't play good stuff baffles me

>>44461623

yup I was going for an obsidian look. I might do a brush on gloss but I'm not sure

>>44465036
Because they die to the Cryx bogeyman.

I'm only half shitlording. I do think they are slightly busted, because they had to pray to the dice gods to kill them but I want PP to give other factions better tools to deal with it aside from hit harder instead of nerfing my Warders.

Had their dice come up a teeny bit short I would usually have 2 or 3 Warders left to beat face with.

Against Legion/Cygnar/Minions it usually means I eat their heavy. Against Menoth it usually means I cripple a heavy or do decent damage to their Bastions. Khador just lols as I can't hit them...but instead I just bomb them.

Cryx usually kills them 100% of the time with recursion as a backup.
Circle has that stupid recursion mechanic or crazy arm/control to deal with them.
CoC also has recursion.
Never played mercs aside from Ossrum Earthbreaker, but I usually die to assassination there anyways.


Skorne has gone fifty/fifty, and I'm not familiar with the point costs of the army to say if they win out on the trade.

No other factions are played in my store, but the majority of the time it seems I win out in the trade. It really depends on if the faction cares about losing out on the trade.

My biggest worry is that after leaving my Cryx army because of all the nerfs and whining, that my Trollbloods are going to suffer the same fate.

Alright /tg/ I want to get into Retribution. Specifically a gunline. I'm thinking of working towards the following list

35pts
>Ravyn
>Discordia
>Mage Hunter Strike Force +UA
>Stormfall Archers
>Stormfall Archers
>Mage Hunter Assassin
>Mage Hunter Assassin
>Aiyana and Holt

But most of my friends are just now getting to the 25pt level. Is there a good 25 point list that I can use as a stepping stone to the Ravyn gunline? I also like Thyron, Ossyan, and Rahn.

I play mostly against pGrim trolls and Butcher1 Winterguard/Ironfang spam.

>>44465787
oh yeah and toss eEiryss into that list too.

>>44465787
Rahn will make people rage. You can turn non- colossal heavy hitters around to deny counter attack and make stormfalls accurate. He's also fucking fun in general and you might not go back to ravyn if you play Rahn

Gonna pick up the Khador battlegroup to start, LGS owner suggested magnetizing my heavy. Should I magnetize the shoulder pieces where they join the body, or glue those on, and magnetize the arms where they socket into the shoulders? I've seen both styles when looking up tutorials, and don't know which would be better in the long run.

>>44466175

I like magnetizing the arms where they join the shoulders because it's easier to pose the arms when the magnets face downward than when they're sideways

As someone looking to start playing with Convergence, how good is Syntherion in theme in low point games?

>>44466355
He has Synergy. He gets better with game size, with him being balanced at ~50 points. He's acceptable below that.

>>44466355
>>44466385

his spells trade off effectiveness. at low points, magnetic hold is insane and synergy takes a back seat. you can get him up to tier 4 at 25 points. get a corollary as soon as you can!

>>44465367
>My biggest worry is that after leaving my Cryx army because of all the nerfs and whining, that my Trollbloods are going to suffer the same fate.

Fuck Trolls. I hope they get nerfed into oblivion

>>44467775
>The same fate as Cryx
>The faction that has never had true nerfs

>>44467775
Mmmh snacking on those salt.

>>44465036

Only play doom reavers see is in mad dogs, they cost too much for how easy they are to remove. Its better just to play pikeman and buff their damage.

>>44466175

I dont like magnetizing. In 40k where something like a land raider costs damn near $100 USD, yeah magnetize the fuck out of that thing, but in warmahordes I find it easier to just buy a second model than spend the time magnetizing it. Time is money.

>>44467865
>What is Gaspy2, Skarre2 and Body and Soul?

>>44468203
>What is the true core that makes Cryx bullshit

>>44468626
Skarre1, Denny, Banes, OP solos, and other various units?

>>44468799
That's a Bingo!

>>44468882
And none of that stuff will ever get nerfed

>>44442599
So where are the good guys?

>>44469086
>ThatsTheJoke.jpg

>>44445984
Warmachine is still pretty much the best game if you want something that has more depth than which player gets to roll more dice.

>>44455946
>>44456967
I'd be fine with the Reckoner being nerfed. It might give me a reason to not run three of them in my Durst list.

>>44456864
Like anyone cares about what the Indictor ends up looking like. Nobody is going to use it anyway, because SPD 4 no Reach. Thanks PP!

Sorry, my Protectorate angst is showing. Seriously though, I want it to look great. I will never put it on the table, but more cool looking robots is always a good thing.

Best faction for new players?

>>44458836
>Neat!! I look forward to the changes to the Book and Choir for Menoth.
Implying the Choir and the Covenant are the things that need a change.
Litterally remove a rule of choice from the Reckoner and add a point and it will be balanced. Then remove a point from the Sanctifier and make the Castigator able to Combust on the charge and everything will be fine.

>>44470444
Skorne can be fairly simple (Apply Bronzeback the trouble area)
Cryx can also be (Apply infantry and Banes to the trouble area)
Decide which faction's aesthetic you prefer the most and go from there.

>>44470444

Anything but legion

>>44456967
>You're getting something you'd never expect you're getting soon.
The Revelator released before the one-year mark?

>>44467962

In my experience, magnetizing the legion heavy kit, and the 2 CoC kits, it takes like 20 minutes and since I don''t value my time at $100 an hour, it's a better deal to magnetize

>>44466175
Magnatize the arm joints to the shoulder joint with the double-depth technique for stability.

>>44470899

what jacks in khador are you going to be constantly swapping out arms for?

There is almost no reason to play a marauder, the destroyer fucking sucks, the decimator is only viable under andy, and the juggernaut sees some play.

If you are going to magnatize all those arms and heads its going to take more than 20 minutes. If it takes two hours to complete that task you might as well spend a little extra and just buy an extra kit.

also magnetizing CoC, if you plan on making that faction your main your wasting your time. Syntherion basically demands you own atleast one of every kit. Dont even bother if you are in it for the long haul.

>>44471329
Or you could just not magnatize the heads. Waste of time unless the 'jack has a head weapon.

>>44471369

If were taking the lazy route and cutting corners we could just proxy everything.

>>44471329

I'm not sure how're you magnetizing things... are you adding in the time it take to assemble the model without magnetizing? are you including the time it takes to wash the release agent off?

>>44471450
That's a bit of a fucking leap.

The heads are so similar and small enough that there is no discernible difference at a few feet away.

>>44470444
The game is built on synergy and combos. Honestly, there is no starter army. They can all be pretty deep or shallow depending on what kind of list you make.

Pick the faction you are most attracted to for whatever reason and learn to play it.

>>44472440

as long as you don't pick CoC

>>44472572
>>44470444
Yeah, something to be aware of is that Convergence is a specialty faction which is not guarunteed regular releases like the other factions are. What you get in the Forces: Convergence book is pretty much all they have and will have for a while.

Also, be careful about picking up Mercenaries or Minions as a first faction. They are both very limited.

>>44464599
>Skorne have weapon masters and Karn

Skorne doesn't have weapon masters, they have a non-pillowfisted brick option. Not the same thing.

>>44473580
Cataprachts are literally weaponmasters, for the most part anyway

>>44473649
Incindiarii aren't
They're also 6/9 for Incindiarii/Arcuarii and 8/11 for Cetrati comparatively to Warder's 5/8

>>44474241
you realize that cataphracts have an extra man in each of the units, right?

>>44474353
Yep. Issue comes up to list composition though. Higher initial cost tends to dissuade comp more when typically a beast heavy faction.

>>44471238

Double depth? Is that drilling deep enough to inset 2 magnets stacked?

here's my lists for the upcoming season

Thagrosh 1
* Shredder (2pts)
* Carnivean (11pts)
* Blighbringer (18pts)
Blighted Ogrun Warspears (Leader and 4 Grunts) (8pts)
* Warspear Chieftan (2pts)
Blighted Ogrun Warspears (Leader and 4 Grunts) (8pts)
* Warspear Chieftan (2pts)
Blighted Nyss Shepherd (1pts)
Feralgeist (1pts)
Succubus (2pts)

Saeryn
* Raek (4pts)
* Shredder (2pts)
* Angelius (9pts)
* Scythean (9pts)
* Zuriel (10pts)
Sacral Vault (9pts)
Spawning Vessel (Leader and 5 Grunts) (3pts)
Swamp Gobbers Bellows Crew (1pts)
Strider Deathstalker (2pts)
Strider Deathstalker (2pts)
The Forsaken (2pts)
The Forsaken (2pts)

Pthags is armor/armor breaking
saeryn is infantry clear and scenario

any comments or corrections?

>>44471329

Are you including cleaning and painting?

Because having to clean, magnetize, paint, and transport a single body and a dozen arms is less of a hassle than assembling, cleaning, painting, and transporting half a dozen entire models.

>>44476239
>>44476239

Maybe I'm the weird one, but I don't try and rush through my hobby as fast as a I fucking can and I don't treat it like a giant hassle UGH I GOTTA CARRY THIS SHIT AROUND.

If you can't handle transporting two 50pt lists from point A to point B... I don't know man, maybe you should stick to playing games on the kitchen table.

I take my time when I do shit, because I spent a lot of money and I want to be done right, I want to be proud of my work. For the people that say it takes no time to magnetize a kit don't realize how much time they spend on this hobby. Next time you start a project, one you aim to do the right way, keep an eye on the clock. Just giving my pikeman brass pikes took an evening, all I had to do was work a brill bit and insert some brass rods, easier said than done. I probably could of half assed it, they would play the exact same on the table, but at the end of the day those are my models I'm stuck with.

>>44470543
Why not

>>44475410
Carni looks awkward in this list.

>>44477318

So when I play my khador or menoth terrain is a huge deal for me. I specifically put units in my list to help me deal with being able to move though it and combat units inside of it. Through hundreds of games I've learned how to really abuse terrain, I know that sounds ridiculous, but you would be surprised just how much a small chunk of rough terrain can completely fuck an opponent if you play it right.

There is stealth, tough, high armor, high def, and other shit that you would normally have to specifically have meta pieces to stop or have the personal skill to mitigate.

This stuff isn't a head ache for legion, they don't build around this stuff, its not apart of their meta. They have been playing the exact same lists for years in a environment that is constantly evolving and changing and yet they consistently do well at major tournaments.

As a new player who chose legion, you aren't learning to play warmachine like the rest of us you are learning to play legion. When you walk away from a game you just lost you are going to be asking yourself how can I alpha him faster and harder. Eventually you will figure out that spamming nothing but heavy warbeasts and a few solos is the way to roll, in a competitive sense this sort of unique to legion. At the moment I cant think of any hordes faction that can take basically nothing but heavy war beasts in both/all its list pairings and be rock solid.

I think legion is a good second army once you figure the game out from literally any other perspective. Ive seen to many people start out on legion, get bored with it, move onto something else, and have practically no clue how to play the game. Frustrated as fuck they go back to legion, get bored, and eventually quit.

I have some complaints about circle as a starting faction, but I think you get a very good grasp how how the game works if you stick with them.

>every other faction
>assembling infantry takes 10 minutes, 2-5 pieces per model, can easily tell which parts go where by quickly looking at the back of the box

>Convergence
>each model is made out of 12 individual pieces
>first have to sort out which parts are arms and legs from everything else in the clusterfuck of a pile of plastic that they pack
>weapons are bent, have to boil water to get them to bend easily
>accidentally break one weapon, can't pin because it's a small little stick made of plastic, have to glue, hold tight, and pray
>every single part has flash on it, spend half an hour cleaning that shit
>spend another half an hour figuring out where the part that fits into slot W is hiding
>takes two hours to assemble one 5-man unit
It's like a really annoying jigsaw puzzle, only with more super glue and the risk of having a loose piece of plastic flying into your eye or accidentally cutting yourself.

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Played around a bit with Gorton and his gun bunnies way back in...shit, Prime I think. Anything I should know as I jump back in? Anything changed drastically? All I know is the Dwarven Colossal gives me the strangest murderboner, and I want one.

>>44456967
Errants are now 12/15?

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>>44464599
>Oh well, Ret sucks. What else is new?

>>44478720
If something does get nerfed I do hope its errants or harby, simply because it would probably open up a lot more list building options.

Nerfing choir, vassals or the book seems unnecissary and honestly menoth doesn't need a nerf that big at all.

>>44478794
Errants are literally the only thing I have a problem with. Either nerf their def/arm values, or errata the stupid tough/self sac bullshit to be one or the other, not both.

That, and stop harby from just martyring everything back to life. Make it cost a focus to martyr something. Martyring is supposed to be a big risky play, but instead my main opponent just martyrs his fucking bastions/errants/gravus for days if he fails his tough, and spends 10 focus next turn to heal back to full with the heirophant.

>>44478870
not trying to say
>git gud
but if your opponent is spending his whole stack to heal and is still staying in martyrdom range then you really need to capitalize on this opening more

>>44478936
list comp was

>Harby
>devout
>heiro
>book
>2x Bastions
>bastion senny
>errants + UA max
>rhupert
>gravus
>min vengers
maybe wracks as well idk

It's a hard list for any faction to crack through, a lot of wounds, decent speed with harby's spells, hard to get to her with a shield guard and 3 large bases blocking her.

My best luck was with Siege where I used his feat + Ground Pounder to delete one unit of bastions, murder ponies chewed up the other unit, and had my B13th destroy the errants down to 4 men + officer, and even then the errants, vengers and gravus with harby did enough damage to where I had to jam a jack into harby's face to keep her occupied while I whittled the rest away.

I do need to git gud, I know this. I'm still pretty good though (second and third places regularly in town tournies) I need to work on placement and distances, but it's a fucking strong list.

>>44470456
I was trying to find the saltiest change for Menites.

The Reckoner getting a nerf would be expected and not salt inducing.

I've just been waiting since the inception of MKII for it. Like that voice in the back of your head that says its a matter of time.

>>44479006
>saltiest change for menites
Vanquisher loses AOE4 on it's cannon

>>44478997
I would run just about any of my khador lists into that and not be scared.

I know I'm going to get crucified for saying this, but I don't think bastions are that hard to kill, not compared to something like defenders warded errants with rupert. Christ... I fucking hate it so much.

>>44479006
Well you were right. Though I do see other things mentioned which are being affected too.

>>44479081

yes please

>>44479337
Hell no it's the only reason to take it over the reckoner. We want more reason to take non reckoner jacks, not less.

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>>44479322
Yeah, I've been rocking denny3 lately, csme up against menoth thinking mortality will deffinatly get rid of their tough sac bs. Nope! Forgot they were immune to magic. Like everything else in the freaking list.

In my defense, theres like no menoth in my meta

>>44480551
Just kill the standard bearer :^)
I don't remember if this works, but you might be able to miss one of your own guys in melee with an errant

>>44480572
Still has to be a legal target. If you miss your guy, you randomize between targets, when you find your target, you follow standard magic attack rules. As you can't target that model, you continue to randomize until you find a legal target, or the spell fizzles as it just misses completely.

>>44476605
>If you can't handle transporting two 50pt lists from point A to point B... I don't know man, maybe you should stick to playing games on the kitchen table.

My nearest gamestore is an hour away.

I don't just transport two 50 point lists. I transport my whole collection so that when I arrive, I have the option to make pretty much any list right there.

I can do this in large part due to the fact that I don't have to carry around a dozen heavy warjack chassis alone.

>>For the people that say it takes no time to magnetize a kit don't realize how much time they spend on this hobby

Compared to actually assembling and painting a full model? It doesn't.

>>I take my time when I do shit, because I spent a lot of money and I want to be done right,

Well yeah, you spend a lot of money. You buy twice as many or three times as much on your models.

And Warmachine, as much as I enjoy it, is hardly the only hobby or activity occupying my money or attention. That extra time/money I'm spending on additional models when I could just magnetize them is time/money not going to my other activities.

>>44477464
he's there for the brick and he's most likely the target for the feat since the BB will be held back shooting. I could bring a scythean?

>>44480939
Are errants immune to magic or can they not be targeted by spells? If the banner is alive

>>44482539

They can't be targeted by spells while the banner is alive.

>>44482704
Enemy spells. They could have wrote Sacred Ward but didn't.

>>44483101

I think Sacred Ward only works on a single model. It states "THIS MODEL cannot be targeted by enemy spells".

Since the Errants ability read, "While this model is in formation, models in its unit cannot be targeted by enemy spells," it's technically a different ability, and as such, has a different name.

It's also different from the Zealots' ability that makes them untargetable by spells for a round.

A subtle difference, but it's there. And Warmachine tends to be more precise than many other games with its wording.

>>44481743
>My nearest gamestore is an hour away.

okay

>I don't just transport two 50 point lists. I transport my whole collection so that when I arrive, I have the option to make pretty much any list right there.

y tho

Are you one of those people who only play the most optimal shit against each and every opponent?

>I can do this in large part due to the fact that I don't have to carry around a dozen heavy warjack chassis alone.

If I bring two 50pt lists chances are there will only be between 2-4 jacks in the case unless I am playing jack spam and then I'm going to have half a dozen regardless of being able to swap their arms in and out. Having one or two less models in my bag isn't a big connivence or weight off my shoulders (literally).

>Compared to actually assembling and painting a full model? It doesn't.

The time I have to spend on my hobby is the time I have to spend on it, what project I'm working on doesnt change that.

>Well yeah, you spend a lot of money. You buy twice as many or three times as much on your models.

The price of an individual kit doesn't change based on the quantity you buy.

>is hardly the only hobby or activity occupying my money or attention.

>That extra time/money I'm spending on additional models when I could just magnetize them is time/money not going to my other activities.

>Im a broke ass college student with entirely too much time on my hands.

Opinions on this Thag1 list?

Points: 35/35
Thagrosh, Prophet of Everblight (*5pts)
* Naga Nightlurker (5pts)
* Angelius (9pts)
* Carnivean (11pts)
* Typhon (12pts)
Blighted Nyss Shepherd (1pts)
The Forsaken (2pts)

>>44485918
>>y tho. Are you one of those people who only play the most optimal shit against each and every opponent?

Quite the opposite. I don't even know what caster I'm going to play until I get there. A lot of times, I let my opponent decide what I'll play. I also often tinker with a single list between games.

>>If I bring two 50pt lists chances are there will only be between 2-4 jacks in the case unless I am playing jack spam and then I'm going to have half a dozen regardless of being able to swap their arms in and out. Having one or two less models in my bag isn't a big connivence or weight off my shoulders (literally).

One heavy jack slot in my bag takes up enough space for several other models. By carrying 2+ fewer heavy jacks, I can greatly increase space for other options.

Not to mention it makes it easier to maneuver them in some games and means I never have to worry about arms breaking off in the rare event they fall.

>>The price of an individual kit doesn't change based on the quantity you buy.

But the total cost increases with each model you buy. A single magnetized heavy kit gives me 3 jack options for the price of one. Without magnetizing, I have to buy 3 heavy kits to get those 3 jack options.

>>The time I have to spend on my hobby is the time I have to spend on it, what project I'm working on doesnt change that.

Doesn't work that way with me. I'd prefer to have to buy and magnetize one model and have 3 jack options ready by the end of the week rather than buy 3 jack kits and have only 1 done by the end of the week.

>>>Im a broke ass college student with entirely too much time on my hands.

The people I play with and I are not in this situation.

>>44486713

What's up with the Naga Nightlurker in that list? Just curious.

>>44482704
So I could hit my own guy w/ scourge and kill them in the aoe?

>>44487552

Yes. In fact, shooting your own guys in the back is a common way of dealing with stuff immune to being target by spells.

>>44460163
>>44460169
The stone looks wet and mossy, and I love it

>>44487054
Blessed is nice and I couldn't really think about anything else to throw in for 5 points

Anyone have any fun games lately?

>>44489507
>Blessed is nice and I couldn't really think about anything else to throw in for 5 points

Well what else do you have in your collection?

A Shredder is always useful for Thagrosh, since it can use its animus to make him even tougher.

Another Forsaken to replace the Shepard would be nice too, since you wouldn't have to worry about the Forsaken having to make fear checks against the other Forsaken.

Dropping the Forsaken, the Nightlurker, and adding a second Shepard would also leave you with 6 points, which is enough for some Legionnaires to act as a tarpit for you.

>>44492158
Fun? Not really.

Only Tournaments. The true suffering of the casual player :\

I'm going to try and make it to the PUG day at my store... if it hasn't finally died.

>>44492270
I've got some Ogrin Warspears, 2 Strider Deathstalkers, a Ravagore, a Succubus, and a Nephilim Bolt Thrower is what I have in reserves. I'm thinking about throwing out the Forsaken and throwing in a shredder instead.

>>44442599
What's the difference between Douchebag, Psychopath and Asshole?

>>44492620

With 4 warbeasts, you definitely don't want to get rid of your fury management (the Forsaken and Shepard).

I say ditch the Nightlurker and replace it with something else. Or is Choir of Menoth really that prevalent and shooting stuff really that critical to your game plan?

>>44492692
Nightlurker is good for that magical typeless shooting though, I'd be hesitant to drop it in a take all comers list.

>>44492692
I go up against a lot of Striker and Butcher players. (speaking of which, what is a good way to counter Butcher1 and 2?)

>>44492856
Any speed debuffs to keep him from charging, and your standard armor crackers

>>44492856

If that's the case, I'd drop the Angelius and replace it with Warspears. A Scythen would be awesome in there too.

>>44492950
I like the Angelius because of it's great armor cracking abilities. And a lot of the time, the guys at my shop tend to zero in on the biggest beast at the table, which would be my Typhon. In my opinion, warspears just don't do enough against high armor enemies like Cygnar and Khador. I have also thought about a Scythean for a while, but I just don't know what to replace for it because Carnivian + Typhon + Thag1 = Pain in the ass to kill, which is what I'm going for in this list while still being able to crack the ridiculously high armor of Khador jacks.

>>44493058
Give the warspears the UA, and the benefit of the BB and they're a tough brick to crack.

>>44493600
Dude.. For the longest time I had though that the UA is FA 1.

It was awesome when I found FA is 2.

>>44494008

I love running double Warspears with Thagrosh and Lylyth.

Better keep those Heavies in the back.

>>44494008
2 units warspears with UA's, BB and Kallus, with beast to taste is a hella fun list.

Happy new year! What are your WMH goals for the year?

>>44497854
I wait for the new salty errata with many cups, to catch the tears of the WAAC faggots.

>>44498455
>implying
Competitive players benefit just as much from errata as casual ones.

>>44497854
Finish painting my small Convergence force, paint more of my Legion, paint the Blightbringer when I get that sexy motherfucker.

Maybe git gud enough to go to a major con and not get my ass thoroughly kicked by everyone there.

>>44497854

Diversify my casters. I played Kreoss1 exclusively for almost a year before getting Severius. Then I had him months before getting Harbinger and Feora2.

Since then, I've only gotten the other Kreosses. And I still play mostly Kreoss1, 2, Feora, and Severius.

It's been a little over 3 years now.

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Just say, in a theoretical model, I wanted to give Warmachine a shot. What would be the best way to start? Just grab a Battlegroup box for the faction I like the look of?

Also, what the heck is a Press Ganger?

>>44501412
>Just grab a Battlegroup box for the faction I like the look of?
Pretty much.

>Also, what the heck is a Press Ganger?
Volunteer community organizers that get official support from the company.

>>44501426
>Volunteer community organizers that get official support from the company
They run demos and organize tournaments, right?

>>44501481
Those are their main duties, yes.

>>44497854
Get off my lazy ass and get Charge of the Horselord tier painted.

>>44497854
Finally finish painting my Menoth army, and hopefully add enough vectors to my convergence force to make it into a 50 point syntherion list.

>>44497854
Get good at circle, and finish painting the infantry

>>44497854

I dunno. Probably just hobby the hell out of the game. I'm tired of playing against Grey tides and I don't care for competitive anymore, so its going to be refreshing to just take a break and paint.

I also have this huge box of Convergence I've been putting off painting.

>>44489440

thanks! what do you think of maybe doing a brush on gloss to part of the stone?

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What do you guys think of my pKreoss I just finished?

help me decide between pthag builds?

Thagrosh, Prophet of Everblight (*5pts)
* Shredder (2pts)
* Carnivean (11pts)
* Blightbringer (18pts)
Blighted Ogrun Warspears (Leader and 4 Grunts) (8pts)
* Warspear Chieftan (2pts)
Blighted Ogrun Warspears (Leader and 4 Grunts) (8pts)
* Warspear Chieftan (2pts)
Blighted Nyss Shepherd (1pts)
Feralgeist (1pts)
Succubus (2pts)

Thagrosh, Prophet of Everblight (*5pts) tier 4
* Blightbringer (18pts)
* Scythean (9pts)
* Seraph (8pts)
Blighted Ogrun Warspears (Leader and 2 Grunts) (5pts)
* Warspear Chieftan (2pts)
Blighted Ogrun Warspears (Leader and 2 Grunts) (5pts)
* Warspear Chieftan (2pts)
Spawning Vessel (Leader and 5 Grunts) (3pts)
Spawning Vessel (Leader and 5 Grunts) (3pts)
Warmonger War Chief (0pts)

or

Thagrosh, Prophet of Everblight (*5pts)
* Shredder (2pts)
* Carnivean (11pts)
* Blightbringer (18pts)
Blighted Nyss Legionnaires (Leader and 9 Grunts) (6pts)
* Captain Farilor & Standard (3pts)
Blighted Ogrun Warspears (Leader and 4 Grunts) (8pts)
* Warspear Chieftan (2pts)
Spawning Vessel (Leader and 5 Grunts) (3pts)
Succubus (2pts)

>>44505991
I like the second one, but I'd probably swap the seraph and one Spawning vessel for an angellius and shredder.

>>44506055
I could see that the biggest issue with that is furry management though... what if I added a forsaken instead of a shredder?

>>44505922
bretty good.

>>44497854
>Stop listening to all Pod Casts
>Stop worrying about whether or not list can handle the levels of stupid the game can pump itself to
>Play what I want to play and accept the outcome,no matter how swingy
>Undo the GitGud cancer that has tainted my views of the game.

>>44506533
Oh and Addendum.

>Remind myself why I bought into this game. The setting, the factions, and crazy plays that can be manufactured.

I've lost my way playing this game trying to compete with the big dick meta guys. I had to do a lot of thinking about whether or not to sell my armies and move on.

2016 will be the year I learn to stop worrying and learn to love the shit I actually like to play

>>44506644
Anything in particular your trying to incorporate?

>>44505922
Very nice. This pleases Menoth.

>>44507741
Assassination. I'm done trying to outlast my opponent in the attrition state. I'm done trying to create a rube Goldberg machine when the opponent can make one better.

I'm done faction hopping. I'm sticking to my Legion and Menites and I'm going to play the things I love the most. Robutts and monstahs

>>44510343

You sound like me. Fortunately, everyone else in my meta has noticed that I'm not the most competitive player and have given me free reign to abuse all the power casters/lists like Harbinger and Saeryn that I've been curious about but have generally been avoiding in an effort not to be "that guy".

>>44510445
I only avoid the Denny's as a rule, but I've been considering reviving body and soul in my meta

>>44510833
Why

>>44510846
I heard eDenny was getting a resculpt, and the list would preform well here

>>44510846
And! I wanted to do a more attrition style list with the sepplicur

>>44510846
>>44510936

with the nerf eDenny isnt total horse shit to play against.

>>44455740
>no obligatory ironclad is superior post

>>44511053
Honestly it's not.

Juggnernaut gets the weird honor of being not good, but good enough to kill every good things in the game. Ironclad doesn't have that going for it.

Ironclad is just plain inferior when you got other vanilla jacks like centurion around.

>>44464599
CoC uses Flare + the TEP.

The TEP's shooting is simo, so the Warders don't get their armor buff until it's done murdering them.

anti dude spam list

Points: 50/50
Saeryn, Omen of Everblight (*5pts)
* Raek (4pts)
* Shredder (2pts)
* Angelius (9pts)
* Scythean (9pts)
* Zuriel (10pts)
Sacral Vault (9pts)
Spawning Vessel (Leader and 5 Grunts) (3pts)
Feralgeist (1pts)
Strider Deathstalker (2pts)
Strider Deathstalker (2pts)
The Forsaken (2pts)
The Forsaken (2pts)

to go with my armorcracking brick pthags list

>>44511123

juggernaut is slow as fuck in a faction that basically cant speed shit up unless you spend focus. Its only Mat 6 so its entirely possible to miss things you really shouldn't, to fix that problem you basically need to spend focus unless you finagle some way to hit consistently.

Once you've spent the focus to get it where you need it and you've managed to insure youre going to hit the target you've still got to put several focus on this thing to make sure youre going to drop the enemy target like a sack of potatoes.

In a faction full of 6 and 7 focus casters who constantly cast 3 and 4 cost spells, which also have upkeeps that need maintained, its easy to see why its over looked and why khador only tends to play one warjack at a time.

If you really like the juggernaut, figure out a way to put Beast 09 in your list.

>>44513181
Basically everything you said was applicable to every jack in Khador.

Juggernaut is simply the 3rd cheapest and can threaten every model in the game.

>>44510979
Did you even try to spell that correctly?

>>44513230
Not every jack. Most of the character jacks either have more reach, ways of being faster, or better melee scores.

>>44511123
I'd love the Juggernaught in CoC.

God, what Lucant could do with that jack.

>>44514166
My phone doesn't always cooperate

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>>44514179
>people die when they are killed
>fun things are fun
this is just pedantic stupidity at this point.

whatever.

>>44513230

>Basically everything you said was applicable to every jack in Khador.

No it fucking doesnt. There are jacks that are faster with out constant use of a warcasters focus ann there are jacks with reach, there jacks that can wipe of swaths of infantry or practically one round a heavy with its initials.

the juggernaut costs way more than just 7 points in a faction that has almost zero jack support.

>>44514197
>I'd love the Juggernaught in CoC.

No shit you would, just about every jack in khador works in CoC. Same for the protectorate.

>>44514909
>pendantic
>you know to much for me to argue with you
>what ever, I dont have time for fact

>>44515338
Menoth jacks honestly wouldn't work well in CoC.

Menoth gets the gimpy stats due to choir and vassal and without them number of focus alone isn't going to make things any better.

Then again, you seem very angry about nothing so whatever.

>>44515562
CoC has damage and accuracy buffs too, you know.

>>44515562
You do realize that the stats of all the Menoth jacks is the best statline CoC gets, right?

>>44515677
only the accuracy buff is universal. Everything is from the caster itself. the hitbuff is also an offensive aoe so the target selection gets dictated more than a flat choir buff.

>>44515562

Nah I'm saying khador jacks would work well in Menoth. They would still be slow as fuck, but they would hit stupid hard. Something like the victor or the conquest with the choir buffing its gun shots with a vassal letting it shoot its main gun multiple times.... my boner.

>>44515776
Honestly Enliven is more of what I would want.

The entire point of Khador jacks at the start was that they could take a hit and hit back, something that never came to be. Enliven would be so helpful for it.

I honestly would want a vassal for Khador that does enliven and ancillary attack but special attacks instead of normal. I think it's very piss poor that 2 or khador jack's bests stats don't get used at all because of no armor buff and power attacks sucking balls.

>>44515767
Ok, and? Every caster but Aurora has a damage buff anyways. About the only point you could make is that Mother is the only universal +2 damage buff, but that doesn't mean that the jacks wouldn't be great in CoC. Hell, I'd argue that Synth could run either of the Menoth Colossals better than anyone in Menoth themselves, given his support spells.

>>44515863
I think the design and the focus swing kinda of jacked that up.

The current design space means unless a jack has reach, it usually is a hard sell both in games and in stores.

>>44515863

>power attacks sucking balls.


Though you are right, If every turn you ask yourself "can I use a power attack here?" and "would it be useful?" eventually you will surprise yourself. Ive won more than a few games due to conquest slamming or throwing something into the enemy caster or eSorscha's feat turn. arm locking jacks with only one melee weapon with conquest is fun.

Power attacks aren't necessarily bad, its just the option to do more direct damage is almost always better. But then again there are jacks in khador that are all about power attacks (something that might be unique to khador) and they all fucking suck. Marauder slams, mad dog tramples, kodiak throws and head butts. Whats next a jack that arm locks?

>>44516008

reach should of been some sort of rare special rule that wasn't on damn near every character jack.

>>44516546
This is why I want a vassal type of dude that does ancillary special attacks. Yes that means Beast would go insanely good with thresher, but we have ruin who do comparable things, I think it's ok for Beast to do that.

Mat 6 is barely adequate to initiate a power attack on another heavy anyway. Warpwolf Stalkers are still a problem, but I would so take a solo that gave me a free special attack.

>>44516008
A long time ago one of the guys in my store suggested that all jacks get 2" reach, infantry with reach gets 1", and everything else is 0.5". Not sure if it's a good suggestion or not but I think he was salty about warriors having just as long of a weapon as the 13 foot tall robutt standing next to them.

>>44517033
While I don't think model type based melee ranged is all that great as an idea, but jacks getting a melee range buff wouldn't bother me because HOLY SHIT THE OVERHANGS.

if there's ever a Mkiii I really want b2b to be completely removed so I can actually fucking shieldwall or repair in piece. PP has a horrible size creep issue on their models

I feel like this game is losing steam kind of hard. I've been trying to sell legion and circle armies for ever and even at 40% retail with cases included they aren't moving.

>>44517076
This pisses me off to no end. Playing Farrow, my war hogs, who reach an inch and a half over their base, have less reach than random fucking elves with swords.

>>44517264
Yeah, I feel it too. Here's hoping it picks up again once the errata hits.

>>44517076
Yeah made worse by the inconsistent model creep across the range. Some get super ripped others get slightly ripped.

>>44517033
That's not an uncommon complaint. I made my peace with it years ago, but I'll gladly accept that change.

>>44514179
That anon said threaten, not out-threaten.

>>44515868
>Synth could run either of the Menoth Colossals
>Hot Shot on the Jew Dictator
That sounds horrifying.

>>44516546
>arm locking jacks with only one melee weapon with conquest is fun
But the Conquest can just kill every jack in the game.

>>44517264
Where are you and what do they look like?

>>44517076
I've had to tell my playgroup about 100 fucking times that no, my galvinizer does not have reach despite the sawblade being swung around on an arm fully twice the height of a man.

It's nucking futs,

In fact having reach would make that a really OK jack,

>>44518950
Not if it's DEF 14+
Plus, you might want to keep it where it is for whatever reason (it's blocking a scarier 'jack from charging, for example) since it can't move while locked.