>Rules databases
https://mega.co.nz/#F!pFgm0RKR!J06C1gVYcjzNGsF8YNLsjQ
https://kat.cr/warhammer-40k-pdf-library-t9575373.html
>FAQs
http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Rules-Errata
>40k 7th edition quick reference sheet(s)
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4104995/Games/7edRef_V6.pdf
>Forgeworld Book index
http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Forge_World_and_Apocalypse_Rules_Index
To fight monsters we created monstrous creatures edition
Are Purifiers any good, I really want Crowe to travel with his homeboys buy I heard that anything other than Dreadknights, Draigo and 2W termies is sub-par
>>44411912
This thread belongs to the Emperor.
>>44411992
I have heard good things about them. Apparently do very well when combat squaded.
>>44411992
Paladins are pretty shit as well really. Power armour GK spam can actually be quite effective as long as it's back up with some fire support.
>Just finished reading "The Guns of Tanith"
Bragg, no :(
>>44411912
>forgotten library
>not The awesome library of rho-mu 31
isn't that the old mega?
>>44411992
Speaking from a slightly more casual point of view, they're pretty terrifying when you have a Guard gunline or something similar. Cleansing Flame ain't no joke.
The hard part is getting them places, though a Rhino can do okay. Keep them cheap and hope your opponent shoots at your other stuff.
>>44412039
It doesn't get any better...
Is the leadership bubble on the Dunecrawler enough of a reason to do a battle maniple over a standard one for Skitarii?
I like the stormsurge model because, instead of it sitting back with its braces on and shooting, I like to imagine it stalking around on the front lines like an AT-ST.
The cockpit bothers me but it looks pretty easily convertable, and I like how it has more in common with hammerheads than battlesuits.
Is a Daemon Prince with Prophet of the Voices decent? What if I don't give it wings? Does the Beast result even work on a Monstrous Creature?
>>44412092
>It doesn't get any better...
N-no
>>44412112
I wish it was a super-heavy tank instead.
500 pt army, no flyers, no vehicles over 34 total Armor unless it's a Dedicated Transport.
499/500
Warboss (PK,BP,CB,AS,'EA,DFK)
11 sluggas + trukk (RR)
11 sluggas + nob (PK, BP) + trukk (RR)
12 Gretchin
1 Deffkopta (TWRL)
3 Mek Guns (Lobba) (3 AR, 6 Extra Crew)
I'm up against:
Tau
Necrons
'Nids
Khornekin
Black Templar
Eldar
Grey Knights
I figure I can't outshoot most of these armies.
>>44412112
Yeah, it'd be much cooler if it wasn't for the anchoring, or if the rules severely downplayed the importance of anchoring.
Conversely, the anchoring gimmick could work way better on a hovertank capable of rapid redeployment at the cost of not being able to fire it's huge turret gun.
Wait... Has the 2nd book of the The Beast series come out yet? I read "I Am Slaughter" and it implied all IF died, but I read in this general that one survived, I know one had the teleport wand, with the final words about him going like "Bring it on" to 6 huge Orks.
So, has the 2nd book come out and what is it called? Or is it only available to buy on BL?
>>44412159
It doesn't make sense to have a system where you are anchoring a vehicle to the ground that it pushes away in order to move. A tread based or wheel based vehicle would make more sense, but the Tau despise such vehicles, so a suit is what you end up with.
>>44412157
sluggas are basically never worth taking over shootas
Those gretchin are going to die. I don't know the points cost of a deffkipta, but I'd suggest trying to get a second one in there, even if it means cutting some wargear off your boss.
>>44411992
They are one of the best units in the codex. Crowe isn't.
Allied pod is the best way to get them to places, but rhino or stormraven is fine too.
>>44412239
It's called landing luv.
>>44412239
>Land skimmer
>Plant stabilizers
>Fire the big gun
>Titans drop
Seems straightforward to me.
>>44412306
The gretchin are there to sit on objectives and do their level best to remain out of sight due to their short stature concealing them behind full cover.
If I'm basically driving the Trukks into the enemy to pile out and say hello up close and personal, you think it's still better to give them shootas?
>>44411992
Paladins are considered to be too expensive due to Instant Death being available on shit like Stormsurge and Eldar and shit. 2W means nothing when you're T4.
Dreadknights are great. Purifiers are great en masse.
Crowe is fucking terrible.
>>44412039
Oh you poor soul.
>>44411912
>mfw despite not having played 40k in several years, I often reply to people asking for list advice in 40k generals
>>44412332
>>44412337
Then you have to take off again
Besides the stormsurge has mantas to ferry it around like the broadside has orcas
>>44412306
There's no point in taking shootas on trukk boyz, there's not enough of them to get a decent amount of hits. No shit grots will die if they get shot at, but that's a big if and they're clearly going to be for holding a point in the back/midfield.
>>44412365
Why do challenge HQs always seem to suck?
Better question: why do General beatstick HQs seem to do their jobs better?
>>44412382
Wow you are terrible.
>>44412392
>Besides the stormsurge has mantas to ferry it around like the broadside has orcas
I know, that was one of the worst things about it.
They spell out that they had to modify Manta's that would otherwise be able to deploy entire cadres to get this abortion to and from the battlefield.
>>44412417
D-Don't bully, plz
What happens when the Tyranids eat an Eternal?
>>44412463
It sees forever.
>>44412345
Considering your play environment, there are a lot of armies that you won't be able to get too close to in Trukks (Tau, necrons), or that you won't be able to out-fight reliably enough with boyz (Khornekin, 'Nids), but with Shootas you can get something that they won't: Assault weapons.
You can do what a lot of other armies on that list can't, shoot and then assault without losing effectiveness, and you're really only missing out on one attack per model. Its my opinion that having them be Shootas to get that extra round of dice in is a good idea, even with low BS.
>>44412345
> you think it's still better to give them shootas?
yes
With the general problems getting to combat, overwatch and ork's poor initiative, that one extra attack per guy is not all that worthwhile. Shooting is consequence free (even with BS2), and since shootas are assault weapons, you can still charge in afterwards.
>>44412420
I think they'd just have to modify the bottom loading bay, the Manta is hilariously big.
>>44412370
I don't want to keep going, if I have to keep reading all the good people dying unceremoniously.
>>44412463
Endless Vore.
>>44412406
Because... a challenge HQ is a beatstick who hasn't been fed enough points to murder more than one guy at a time?
I like to run a duel character unit and pull what I call a "gorka morka", I have one really tough lad take the challenge and get all bruised up in the fight and then a second dead killy lad to hit the guy he's fighting in the back when he's not lookin'.
>>44412159
>>44412239
No good Tau player anchors their Stormsurges.
>>44412463
What happens when the Kroot eats a Tyranid that has eaten an Eternal?
>>44412486
>Bottom loading bay
You mean the one that can carry several tanks and crisis suits?
>>44412417
Why am I terrible?
I just want to know if the other books are out, I thought I saw covers... I agree with >>44412433
>>44412406
Because GW can't into rules. Lysander is stupidly expensive, but he's insanely good. Draigo is also good. Pretty much every dedicated challenger is crap, even at their job. The blade he uses is utterly pointless, why does he have it? I know why, but why is it considered a 'magic weapon/relic' when it doesn't give him anything. I mean, it's still a Daemonblade, why isn't it better than regular CCW just because it's made out of something unnatural. It can be +1S + Shred, or Master-Crafted. Or something. He doesn't have to use the power.
>>44412463
>Eternal
Perpetual.
>>44412508
By Gork and Mork, how Kunninly brutal and brutally Kunnin.
>>44412483
>Shooting is consequence free
>+1ppm when he has 500 to work with
>using open topped vehicles only to ferry boys towards CQC
All you're doing is spending a point to make an attack with 5s to hits rather than 4s.
>>44412390
And idiots wonder why there are so many bad players giving bad advice and causing arguments.
>>44412490
That's the Gaunt's Ghosts series for you in a nutshell. Wew, there's a heartbreaking one later on. Some people might think the final scene was cheesy but I cried mantears during it...
>>44412463
What are Eternals? You mean Eternal Warriors? Or Ethereals? Or Perpetuals?
>>44412509
Not even when behind LoS blocking stuff? What if it's poking it's gun through a window slot but is otherwise obstructed by buildings? Why wouldn't you want the extra shot? I mean, why is it bad? I'm not a Tau player. As for it being a bad thing, isn't that a good thing for you?
>>44412463
Infinite Energy.
>>44412515
>I just want to know if the other books are out
If only gamesworkshop had a separate website dedicated to their book releases you could check. Then the thread wouldn't have as many shit posts!
>>44412542
So either drop the trukks and have all the shootas get outshot while they trudge up on foot, or keep the trukks but get out-meleed when fighting certain armies.
There's gotta be something.
>>44412509
Assplain.
Doubling your pieplate and orkishly randomised number of pulse rifle shots seems to be the main gimmick of the thing.
>>44412577
I've been doing about 1 a week, mostly just reading on my lunch break. I like them, but goddamn does it drive home that no one is safe.
>>44412542
>All you're doing is spending a point to make an attack with 5s to hits rather than 4s.
an attack with 18" range that doesn't have to take a hit from a marine first
>+1ppm
Cut the fat, then. Those extra gun crew would pay for that immediately.
>>44412546
Excuse you, I've read enough forums and blogs to know what kind of advice to parrot to new comers.
>>44412584
Because anchoring takes forever, removes your Stomp attacks, and removes your ability to move anywhere. By the time you reach the next shooting phase, you may not even be in the right position or have some faggot in your face trying to cut you down with D weapons or locking you in melee while you can't Stomp or shoot.
>>44412538
YeahI don't even play Orks, I play inquisition. The irony is that without a character with a beefy invulnerable to tank big monsters Orks can't even pull this off.
I wish they expanded inquisitor henchmen to allow alien mercs so I could get an Ork servant to get punched in the face for me.
>>44412630
The extra gun crew are there so the grots working the gun don't freak the fuck out after losing one dude because lawl 25% losses
>>44412638
You're not as well read as you think if you're posting frog images. 99% of forum advice is also trash unless the poster is the random GT top player who posts there, or you're visiting one of the little known competitive forums.
>>44412542
>11 man squad
>I2
Shame you won't live long enough to benefit from that extra melee attack.
>>44412619
If you want double shots just take two Stormsurges. You've also got double wounds and double flexibility and double LoS angles and you didn't waste a bunch of turns anchoring.
If you've ever anchored a Stormsurge and never had to un-anchor, your opponent is shit and was going to lose to the Stormsurge regardless.
>>44411912
Can I summon one of the new Bloodthirsters with possession in malefic daemonology?
Chaos Daemons player btw.
Anchored Stormsurge automatically dies to a Rhino nudging it.
>>44412690
It's 11 mans because I was planning to attach the WB to it.
>>44412616
>keep the trukks but get out-meleed when fighting certain armies.
You still have more bodies on your side than other dedicated melee armies. When it comes to nids just focus synapse, there's not much you can bring in 500 points anyway.
>>44412630
What time will he have to shoot though? Going flat out and getting into cqc turn 2 is superior to a burst of lead.
>>44412708
>implying a rhino will survive death or glory
>>44412691
Hmm, conversely though: Don't you have nothing to lose if you're already in a good firing position? You can unanchor before shooting if you're caught out.
>>44412690
Every ork that dies before striking makes those extra melee attacks the rest have more beneficial.
>>44412711
That's fine. The point was that an extra Cc attack is worth a hell of a lot less than an extra shot
>>44412708
Any effect that would auto-kill or remove a GC from the table instead inflicts d3 wounds.
>>44412708
Do tell how?
>>44412708
1d3 wounds. Immune to removes from play.
Does leave an issue of where the vehicle goes afterwards, but that's because the rules team didn't think of it.
If I am running the Talon Strike Force, and choose to bring the Shadowstrike Kill Team, I can assault on the first turn right?
Brand new to 40k, so please forgive me. Bunch of friends and I picked up Tabletop Simulator, along with the various 40k armies people have ported from Dawn of War. I know this is probably well out of this thread's field, but my main challenge right now is the limited unit list. I'm gonna end up rolling up either Tau or IG, but... where the hell do I start?
I can probably convince people to let us proxy one model for another, and maybe way down the line I'll be able to make custom ones, so I guess unit restrictions aren't a huge deal, but... yeah. Point still stands, where the hell do I start with Tau or IG? Either one?
>>44412764
He means by Tank Shock.
>>44412613
Yes dear, but my point is, why is there only one book available on GW, but more on BL?
I was asking why they're not on GW specific, yet I Am Slaughter is.
>shit posts
I've not shitposted anything. Saying I have doesn't make it so.
>>44412702
There's no definitive answer.
In the rule book it simply says it summons a bloodthirster "the rules for it can be found in codex:chaos daemons" but never specifies if you can use other bloodthirsters or not.
I would say yes you could but it's an issue you may want to quickly pass with your opponent.
>>44412759
Can you whip up an alternate 500pt list to mine sos I can see your rationale a bit better?
>>44412773
I assume it would stop as if it tank shocked another vehicle but was unable to remove it but I don't think there are rules for it(?).
>>44412809
I was thinking that. Cheers.
I will wait to see what other people say but I see no reason why I couldn't. No huge loss if I can't anyway, the regular Bloodthirster is Killy as all hell anyway.
>>44412786
Just start with small games to learn the system. Download the codex and rulebook from the Mega, and plan out a 500 point list. Focus on getting the basics since you don't have to worry about buying models.
>>44412741
There's no reason not to anchor if it's the best play, anchoring just shouldn't be your main priority.
>>44412763
And it will keep taking D3 wounds until it's dead, because two models can't be in the same spot.
>>44412613
>>44412802
Wait, I went to check, it only has subscriptions to the other books...
Yet I've seen covers of the others, so went checking and found a picture with release dates of some sort.
Never mind, thanks.
Anyone who owns a Ghostkeel and Pathfinders, do you get a lot of extra shit with the kits? Some boxes barely give you anything to work with but some others just give you a plethora of extra stuff.
>>44412094
Anyone?
>>44412848
All right, 500 points it is. I don't imagine I'll be able to field much armor (if IG) or much in the way of battlesuits (if Tau) on a 500-point budget, but that's fine.
>>44412897
Is that Stallone on Book 3?
>>44412913
Pathfinders come with a ton of stuff thanks to the drones and special weapons.
The Ghostkeel is a complex kit, but the only thing you'll have left over is the weapons you didn't use and some wargear options.
>>44412880
It seems there's no official ruling for it but I can see GW saying the tank shock stops 1" away just to prevent their shiny moneymakers from being regarded as having weaknesses which might impact sales.
>>44412656
it's 500 points, that's going to happen with or without. And ideally at 500 points, your lobbas will never be shot at before the game is over, because they're barrage and don't need to expose themselves ever.
While I'm at it, there's too many gubbins on the boss. 500 is where the adage "boyz before toyz" really rings true. A barebones 'eavy armor/pole boss with a klaw is going to wreck the shit of most things he comes across at 500, and has a unit of flunkies there merely to take shots for him. You want less upgrades on him, less points spent on rams and gretchin and instead spend them on more koptas, or more units of boyz.
>>44412964
I see, thank you. If I were to use all of one type of special weapon and the drones, will I have some stuff?
In fact, what's are the best kits if you wanted to assemble the advertised unit but also have a "bitz box" for Tau?
>>44412157
Can you even play Grey Knights at 500 points?
Haven't played since 5th with orks on their 4th edition codex. Is it worth jumping back in now and investing the money, time, and tears?
>>44413056
> but I can see GW saying the tank shock stops 1" away just to prevent their shiny moneymakers from being regarded as having weaknesses which might impact sales.
Or that the guys writing these rules are incompetent hacks that leave holes all over the fucking place.
Anyway, Isn't it generally a rule that if a model can't be placed it is destroyed? The rhino does d3 wounds then is removed from play if it's tank shock can't clear the stormsurges base.
>>44412956
>I gotta go fight them
>I gotta fight the Orks
>BUT THEY'LL RIP YOU IN HALF ROCKY!
>Yeah? That just means less of me to hit
>>44413140
So you're telling me a simple Rhino can take out a GC if he can just get close enough? How can you get anyone to agree to such things that their stupid OP centerpiece got crunches under a 35 pointer's treads?
>>44412515
Spoilers, man.Anything that might spoil the end of the book should be posted as such.Snape Kills Dumbledore, etc.
>>44411912
Micro 3D printers on sale
Tempted to get one to see if I could make warhammer stuff
>>44413111
I don't really care for the dude playing GK, so I didn't really question it. It'll probably be a small squad or two.
>>44413246
Yep. if you can't move out of the way or can't be placed, the model is destroyed.
>>44413246
>35 pointer's treads
Or maybe a 35 point one use weapon?
It makes sense in that a huge metal vehicle ramming in to an immobile monsters leg would do a ton damage considering how much kinetic energy something that heavy traveling at that speed would have.
Either the leg would break or the vehicle would.
>>44412157
Should probably go with kannons over lobbas for versatility.
>>44413322
>>44413246
Oops, just to make it clear I'm arguing.
>The rhino does d3 wounds as it slams in to the stormsurge
>if it's tank shock can't clear the stormsurges base it is removed from play as it can't be placed (Just imagine it's been wrecked slamming in to the monster)
Fair compromise or no?
>>44413246
DON'T FUCKING ANCHOR YOUR SHIT IF YOU WANT TO BE ABLE TO MOVE
THAT FUCKING SIMPLE
>>44413247
Sorry. I didn't explain how it happened.
I went into the book knowing they all died cause it was spoiled on here. It made me buy it. Mainly for the other threads.
Sorry.
>>44413383
But as you have to move out of the way when tank shocked and an anchored stormsurge cannot, surely it is the one that is destroyed?
>>44413248
It would take days to make. A plastic whistle takes like 4 hours on $5k machines.
But, good luck anon. I think they're not good enough at all compared to industry stuff. If you want cheap recasts, use some of the various recasters who's information I lost.
>>44413383
Are you saying that playing as Tau you are unable to beat a 35 point AV 11 metal bawks? Because if so you deserve to lose that Stormsurge
>>44413383
>>44413322
>>44413307
Well shit, no I don't think so. if the tank is still within 1" from the enemy model, it is placed within 1" in the direction it was going since you cannot be within 1" of enemy models and nothing says you must remove the tank.
You keep your rhino and can tank shock the next turn if you ain't blown up. Does this make tank/transportspam a good counter to GCs?
>>44413374
That's a strong second option, but Lobba's have Barrage and as such can stay out of LOS with pretty much everything else on the board provided there's a big enough setpiece to place them behind. Also Lobbas 48" range vs Kannon 36"
>>44413401
>but I still wont use the fucking spoiler.
>>44413478
The rhino is fine, only the stormsurge gets destroyed if the rhino tank shocks it with the anchors down.
The way i read it was that the rhino's final position for the tankshock just has to be on top of the stormsurge. Since the stormsurge cannot move so that it is 1" away, it is destroyed and the rhino sits at its final position unharmed.
>>44413415
It goes like this
>Rhino tank shocks the stormsurge so it would be on top of the model which is allowed
>Storm Surge is unable to move and is "removed from play"
>But as a Gargantuan Creature it has the unstoppable rule which means it takes d3 wounds instead (assume it survives this for the purpose of argument)
>The rhino and the stormsurge are now on top of each other which is disallowed by the rules
There are no rules (as far as I know) that describe how to deal with this, so what do we do?
>>44413478
only to stormsurges with players stupid enough to anchor them within rhino range
>>44413561
You're right but the Unstoppable rule negates "Remove from Play".
What I'm thinking is that Tank Shock inflicts its damage and THEN attempts to remove from play, Unstoppable prevents it and then takes an extra d3 wounds.
>>44413581
Move it 1" away seems to be the most reasonable and makes the most sense.
>>44413592
What other GCs? Will tank shocking work against them?
>>44412646
This is why I only play friendly. One of my OC's is an Ordo Malleus Inquisitor that has an Ork Freeboota fleet in his back pocket. Simple logic, if he sends an army of Orks to destroy a Daemon Fortress, then whatever the outcome, lots of the Imperiums enemies are going to die. However, against all odds, the Kaptin keeps on surviving, regardless of how many suicide missions he sends him on. At this point, he is only keeping the Ork around to see what will actually finish him off. A friend of mine lets me proxy him as a Warboss with Mega Armour and run him with counting as Inquisition faction. He's not very good, but he is a lot of fun and looks pretty cool next to a few other OC henchmen I made.
>>44413542
That's true, just seems like your lacking high strength at range right now.
>>44413631
That's friggin awesome.
>>44413619
Other GCs will move out of the way normally (but in general are so large this can be problematic for them so it is kind of a hidden weakness for them.)
>>44413596
oh, ok. My group doesn't use GC or superheavies, so I don't know any of their specific rules.
>>44413619
Not in the same way, since they can be moved.
>>44413653
That's alright, I never faced them either, but I want to learn any possible counters in case. I probably would refuse to play against them on principle anyway.
>>44413648
Don't GCs autopass leadership tests so any GCs you try to tank shock will shoot at you first? Rhinos might get fucked hardcore against shit like the piledriver cannon.
>>44413643
Yeah that's the gap in the FC I'm worried about.
>>44413548
I will now, how is anything I said in that post spoiling anything that I hadn't already said?
It's not like I said that Roger Klint is Keyser Söze.
>hope to bring rhinos close enough for tank shock
>hope any vehicle will live more than one turn without cover
>against tau
>>44413688
>fucked hardcore
I believe anon is saying 'if it survives then' for the sake of the rules discussion.
Will mass artillery compliment my mechanized IG army? I want to take 3 Basilisks, 2 Wyverns and a Deathstrike for a 1500 point list.
>>44412509
No good player refuses to adapt to the situation
>>44413740
Have fun getting the same LoS with your markers and Stormsurge when one of those can't move.
>>44413390
ok but wut if u do tho?
>>44413750
Why would you want artillery for a mechanized list? Artillery spam is (imo) best when combined with a semi static gunline, as it essentially forces the enemy to come to you so it can take the artillery out.
>>44413611
No, it isn't reasonable. The tank is following all the proper rules and procedures, and would never be forced to move 1" away from a tank shock he initiated.
The Stormsurge is the one breaking all the rules. If after taking d3 wounds, it's still under the fucking tank, keep taking your d3 wounds, faggot.
>>44413750
>not 3 Deathstikes in 1000 pointer
>not 6 Manticore Emplacements in 1000
>>44413688
Honestly I never run in to these situations on the table top so I'm so frantically flicking through the rules parroting what it says.
Yes, GCs all have the fearless rule as standard... If it passes it leadership test (which it does automatically) it is allowed one attack from a melee or ranged weapon that automatically hits, if it fails to destroy, stun or immobilise the vehicle gets Crunch!'d.
So in other words a stormsurge would get one perfectly accurate shot to destroy it or take d3 wounds.
>>44413592
And that's why you don't go around anchoring your Stormsurges willy nilly. Hence the original discussion.
When people are bringing 12+ Rhinos you're gonna be in range of SOMETHING.
>>44413819
>same LoS with your markers and Stormsurge
Wat?
>>44413790
No good player gives Tau an opportunity to anchor.
If adaptability were so big people wouldn't be playing braindead monolists like Tau and Eldar.
>>44413750
Not likely, Basilisks are shit unless you are on a huge board and I mean, 72 inches minimum. They are just too easy to kill otherwise. Deathstrikes are always worth it. Because, the first turn, your opponent will shit his pants and spend his entire shooting phase aiming at it. And at 165 points (I think) It is either going to tie up your opponent (An invaluable ability) or it's going to rape them with that S10 AP 1 Apocalyptic Blast, Ignores Cover nuke. Unless your opponent is playing something Super-mobile, it is GOING to make back its points.
>>44413462
>35 point AV 11 metal bawks
>35 point
Lol.
>>44413880
Fuck you.
>>44413838
>Fucking grav rules argument logic again
There is no rule for the scenario dumbass.
>>44413790
There aren't any situations against competent opponents where anchoring is either unnecessary or overkill.
It's like Solar Beam and Hyper Beam in Pokemon.
>>44413838
>following all the proper rules and procedures
>keep taking your d3 wounds, faggot.
What page in the rule book says you get to keep doing d3 wounds?
>>44413930
That's because Stormsurge decided to come out with a retarded "can't move" rule. There isn't a rule that allows you to force enemy tanks to move back from their tank shock, yet idiots are trying to give Stormsurge even more breaks, DUMBASS. There's equally no fucking rule allowing you to just push tanks back with your immobile Stormsurge, go fucking comment on that, you piece of shit.
Has anyone here actually used a stormsurge? How has it played?
>>44413964
The same rule that makes you take d3 in the first place. There's no rule that lets you just move the Rhino back, but there is a rule that tells you what happens when you're under a Rhino. Simple logic.
>>44413984
Useless shit. Only 4 d missiles and filthy 3+ save. Wraithknight still better.
>>44413984
I've seen MWG Matt play it.
It rapes face more than even expected.
>>44414019
>Wraithknight is still better
Nigger, Wraithknight will ALWAYS be better than EVERYTHING. I hope to god there is never a situation where you WOULDN'T be able to say WK is still better.
Even by sheer points value, the WK is better than Warlord Titans and Revenant Titans, simply because you can take a buttfuck amount more of them.
>>44414019
>>44414022
I am thoroughly convinced.
>>44414019
Tau don't focus on 1v1. The Stormsurge gives the Tau the edge over Eldar Wraith Knights.
>>44413970
>There's equally no fucking rule allowing you to just push tanks back with your immobile Stormsurge, go fucking comment on that
If you could stop throwing ad-hominem around one second there is ONE rule.
>"The most important rule then is that the rules aren't all that important! So long as both players agree, you can treat them as sacrosanct or mere guidelines - the choice is entirely yours."Wait a minute where is it in the rule book? Don't tell me they removed it.
>>44413970
>I am so fucking triggered, look at me and give me (you) s.
>>44414069
>Tau don't focus on 1v1
That's why you take a squad of 2 Stormsurges and wreck face.
>>44414016
Yes it takes d3 wounds and the tank shock ends, you're not allowed to tank shock it multiple times and so would only suffer one "removed from play" result.
>>44414074
The ad-hominem is well deserved. You're a faggot if you respond to one side with "there are no rules for this situation" but indirectly defend the other side and refuse to apply the same response to them. Then you make a cop out response like "the rules don't matter" or "I just play casually".
If that's your penultimate response, why are you even responding? This discussion is entirely pointless according to you since the rules don't matter, so how about you fuck off?
>>44413946
No one in competitive pokemon uses Hyper beam, and Solar beam is only useful on sunny day/ chlorophyll teams.
Always wanted to get into Warhammer 40k. Could anyone of you point me to where I could read up lore and shit?
Taking two stormsurges is pointless, you might as well take 5 hammerheads
>>44414117
Tank shock doesn't end because the Rhino is still on top of it. You don't get to just move the Rhino back, and you don't get to just have two models on top of each other. Stormsurge's codex rule of "it cannot move, ever" does not override the universal game state of not being able to stack two models like the world's biggest Battleship cheater.
>>44414129
Gen I hyperbeam was great but never again
>>44414104
You meant 2 stormsurges and ghostkeel?
>>44414129
That's the point. No one in competitive 40k anchors their Stormsurge unless they're curbstomping scrubs at the bottom tables.
>>44414130
You already made a fucking thread for this question. Try Google you moron.
>>44414141
Yes, this is exactly what we are arguing about.
>>44414138
Yeah, then you can tank shock enemy stormsurges, good thinking.
>>44414164
Well in pokemon, If someone wants to curbstomp scrubs, they don't use hyperbeam to do so. They just don't use it period.
>>44414164
>You already made a fucking thread for this question. Try Google you moron.
No, I didn't? Don't let your shitty day go out over me.
>>44414125
>The ad-hominem is well deserved.
Is verbal abuse every REALLY deserved? You could clearly explain why someone is wrong without calling them names.
In fact, doing so often just derails a discussion.
ITT: proof that if you're a terrible enough player to anchor your stormsurge, you don't know what to do with it anyways if shit like tank shock happens
If you play Tau, AND take a Stormsurge, AND feel the need to anchor it, you are just indescribably terrible at this game. Unless you lost all your markerlights or didn't take any to begin with, in which case that still reflects pretty badly on you.
>>44414130
Codices in the OP.
>>44414016
>simple leaps in logic
"any models that cannot manage this are crushed and removed from play as casualties with no saves allowed. Crunch!"
"replace removes from play with D3 wounds"
No the rules do not say repeat the crunch or repeat the D3. The rules do not specify any action. The rules also say that the models must be 1" apart, and the stormsurge cannot move, ergo the vehicle, which can move would be the only model capable of acting on the rule. OR there is no solution and you comp it like adults, or roll for it like man-children.
trying to think of an eldar craftworld name, any generators/tips?
>>44414104
>>44414155
That's what MWG did too beat a 2 Wraith Knight Scatter Bike Eldar army.
Raped their face off the board. Minimal Tau casualties
>but he brought non shooting WK
Yeah ok, out shoot the Stormsurge with your super mobile GC. That's a great idea.
>>44414194
Days are ruined daily because of faggots like you shitting up the board. Use the catalog or lurk more FAGGOT ass NEWFAG
>>44411072
>>44414202
If you can't deal with it don't come to 4chan, faglord.
>Is verbal abuse ever REALLY deserved?
Uh, yes? I bet you think everyone deserves to live, too.
>>44414212
Guess I'll look around there. Thanks.
>>44414231
Stay mad, shitter.
>>44414224
Hit one to four non-vowel letters, add two vowels, then one to three non vowel letters. When done pick one vowel and put it in a random non-first non-last position and there is your name.
>>44414244
>>44414231
Good god calm down you edgy emo lords. This isn't /b/ you monkeys.
>>44414141
>does not override the universal game state of not being able to stack two models
which is the rules conundrum, multiple crunch results do not resolve when this occurs, because the rules never state this.
>You don't get to just move the Rhino back
That would be from the 'you can't be within an inch of enemy models' rule and the fact that the stromsurge cannot act on that issue.
>>44414224
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheel_of_the_Year
Pick one that's not in use then make it look a bit Japanese.
I want stormsurges variant with jetpack :c
does anyone have a scan of the new doom of myamera? or at least scans of the new corsairs?
So can we all just take a second to report the /b/ assholes and clean up the board? Thanks anons.
>>44414300
Holy shit, spot on
>Samhain
>Beltane
>>44414288
>stromsurge cannot act on that issue.
Wait, that makes me think. What does it's rules on anchoring say again?
Can it really UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES move or just not voluntarily move?
CSM and daemon update when
>>44414334
Yes.
>>44414382
Eventually.
>>44414364
>UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES
precisely so, this is a real rules exception.
FAQ when?
>>44414386
Post it?
Okay so: Have you considered that rules resolving into two models occupying the same spot with a gap in the rule writing that gives you nothing else to do...
Is simply a really silly case of wobbly model syndrome?
>>44414382
Never Ever
>>44413596
Except it can't move, as it doesn't have permission to do so, so it takes another d3, and another until it dies.
>>44414413
lol why?
>>44414230
The melee WK is the only way to reliably kill a Stormsurge anyway. Too bad it'll never get into melee. Shooty WK will just get blown back, because actual games aren't just 1v1 or equal points vs. equal points shooting.
>>44414436
>so it takes another d3
Where in the rules does it say that? The tank shock ends for the stormsurge after the first d3, you're not allowed to keep tank shocking it on the same turn.
>>44414436
>so it takes another d3
Why? There is nothing in the rules to indicate that it would suffer multiple results.
>>44414288
Then the Stormsurge is removed from play. Pretty simple. The onus is on the Stormsurge to get away.
I'm playing Blood Angels. Is this too much to spend on a DS plasma squad designed to take a beating? Thanks in advance.
Chaplain (130pts)
Plasma Pistol
The Angel's Wing
Librarian (115pts)
Combi-plasma
Jump Pack
Psyker (Mastery Level 2)
Command Squad (170pts)
Company Champion
Jump Pack
Sanguinary Novitiate
Jump Pack
3x Veteran
3x Jump Pack
3x Plasma Gun
>>44414495
The storm surge is immune to "removed from play" results.
>>44414436
Nah the tank shock can only ever deal d3, if that doesn't kill it the game locks up and you need to restart your pc. It's a serious bug that can cause the loss of your save files so it's definitely worth backing up those models and army lists in case you ever find yourself in that situation.
>>44414487
Already posted, quit spamming >>44414117
Where in the rules does it say you can stay under the Rhino? The fact that the rules aren't working right now isn't a defense for you to further rape the rules. The fault lies entirely with the Stormsurge in this situation, for every single aspect, whether it be being under the Rhino, or it being unable to move. You don't just get to make up a rule and move the Rhino back.
>>44414495
By this logic the stormsurge takes either one or two D3 wounds, and the rules are still fucked. So what then.
>>44414511
Then it takes d3 until it dies. The d3 crunch comes from being under the tank. Is it still under the tank? Crunch. Is it still under the tank? Crunch. Is it still under the tank? Crunch.
You could have not anchored. You could have not been near a vehicle. You could have not failed to kill the vehicle. You chose to anchor with a Fearless target in range of a tank. You die.
>all this butthurt about stormsurges
>>44414520
>don't just get to make up a rule and move the Rhino back.
or make up a rule about multiple crunch results?
>>44414532
>either one or two
How do you figure? If it can take two D3 it can take infinite D3 till it's no longer under the tank. The rules are already fucked, there is no "so what then". Where the fuck do you morons get off making up rules about moving enemy models away from you when tank shock explicitly says it gets to roll over you.
>>44414497
It's pretty pricey, I think leave the chaplain out of it, he doesn't have enough to contribute dakka-wise.
>>44414520
Already posted, quit spamming >>44414213
Where in the rules does it say you can stay under the Stormsruge? The fact that the rules aren't working right now isn't a defense for you to further rape the rules. The fault lies entirely with the Rhino in this situation. You don't just get to make up a rule and keep tank shocking the stormsurge.
>>44414551
It's not a rule about multiple crunch effects. It's applying an existing rule repeatedly due to a loop YOU caused. Whereas you're just straight up making shit up by moving the enemy tank back.
Are there rules for crunch? Yes.
Are there rules for moving the tank? No.
Even if you try to say "are there rules for multiple crunches", you're still at best 50/50, whereas tank shock rules are clear and 100% you cannot move the tank back.
At best, the pro-Stormsurge side has "well the rules aren't working" as an argument. You have no fucking legs to stand on for any of your arguments.
>>44414538
>The d3 crunch comes from being under the tank. Is it still under the tank? Crunch. Is it still under the tank? Crunch. Is it still under the tank? Crunch.
This is pretty much how it should go until a FAQ comes out that sheds some light on the matter
>>44414495
>>44414511
And with this issue there is a simple way to resolve this.
Under no circumstances is it reasonable for a tank to simply run over a Stormsurge and remove it from play or to wound it.
>>44414538
This is an unreasonable solution that does nothing but add cancer to the game. Unless GW specifically states otherwise we, the community, should not be the source of cancer.
>>44414563
Noted. He does contributes Zealot, though, making an otherwise small squad pseudo fearless.
>>44414565
That post makes zero sense. In fact, it just proves how your side has zero argument because when you try to juxtapose it, it just sounds like gibberish. Try again.
>>44414538
Crunch! is a result of not being able to be moved, at least 1" away, nothing indicated multiple resolutions of this rule as it would have already resolved.
>>44414544
Are you not entertained? Is this not why you are here?
>>44414596
Tank shocking even MCs isn't reasonable to begin with. The entire concept of the Stormsurge and its strength is unreasonable.
You can't use "that's not reasonable" for the most logical, valid rules interpretation. What's unreasonable is bad tau players letting this happen to begin with then trying to not take responsibility for it.
>>44414598
If they're deepstriking they're probably going to die no matter what you do, and depending on what you're playing against falling back might save their lives.
>>44414609
>Crunch! is a result of not being able to be moved, at least 1" away
Exactly, you just proved yourself wrong. It doesn't matter if it doesn't say anything about multiple resolutions, the fact is you can't move 1" away and you take wounds. Period. So keep taking your wounds, bitch. You don't get to move the enemy tank back and you don't get to stay under it like Jenga.
>>44414583
>existing rule repeatedly due to a loop YOU caused.
There is no loop, it happens once, then the rules have no further instruction.
>>44414608
Do you speak English?
>Where in the rules does it say you can stay under the Rhino?
The rhino is trying to move under the stormsurge, not the other way around, your argument is defunct. The rhino is breaking the rules by staying under the stormsurge.
>>44414334
This is asked every thread. Most people are bored with people begging for scans in 40k threads. If it isn't in the Mega, it hasn't been done.
Maybe that Germanfag who told GW to fuck off when they sent him a C&D has them on his site. Dude makes like a million euroes a year by scanning everything GW does and applying his watermark cause "lol German law says I can :))))"
>>44414649
>So keep taking your wounds, bitch
It applies once because it cannot move, then the shock resolves. Then you have two models that are breaking the rules and no solution presented for the problem.
>>44414414
Yeah, I think this guy has it.
>>44414626
>>>44414596 (You)
>Tank shocking even MCs isn't reasonable to begin with. The entire concept of the Stormsurge and its strength is unreasonable.
But that onus lies on GW for making bat shit insane rules.
>You can't use "that's not reasonable" for the most logical, valid rules interpretation.
Yes you can and you should if you want to improve the state of this game. That's something we can do to try and mitigate their bullshit. Adding to their bullshit is not something we should do under any circumstances.
Go with the most reasonable logical explanation on a rule that needs an FAQ until the FAQ come out.
>>44414684
The shock hasn't resolved because you're still under the tank. You know what would be the actual resolution if the target weren't a GC? Being removed from play.
>>44414699
Its like some people don't want to use RAI when RAW has no solution, and prefer to shitpost for hours.
>>44414633
That's fair. I could just put him with the Death Company, but just that seems like overkill.
>>44414673
Yes because Stormsurges get crunched by tankshocks by tanks burrowing under them.
Do you even not retard?
>>44414414
You literally can't put the Stormsurge on top of the Rhino. You're just not allowed to. Even though the rules themselves caused this problem by making the Stormsurge immune to being removed from the table, which is the normal way to solve these issues.
>>44414720
>The shock hasn't resolved because you're still under the tank.
funny thing, the rules don't state that the tank shock goes unresolved, they say it takes a Crunch! and that is it. You are either mis-remembering, or pulling shit out of your ass.
>>44414744
>Yes because Stormsurges get crunched by tankshocks by tanks burrowing under them.
How does ones rhino "burrow"?
>>44414773
And the crunch removes models from play. So remove the Stormsurge. The crunch rule is specifically there to prevent this exact situation by removing any shit from trying to stay under the tank.
>>44414787
consult the death corps of kreig for more information.
>>44414768
The tank shock rules give a specific beats general permission to be on top of other models.
Models stuck under it are removed from play.
This model is immune to remove from play.
Ergo, the resolution taking no further attempt to make sense of the situation is that both models are in the same place.
>I'm going to tank shock your Stormsurge with my Rhino
>Sure...not sure how that would work though
>me either...
>rule book doesn't really answer our question
>eh forget it let's keep playing.
I remember a few Generals ago, we were arguing about House Rules and one guy got major shit for saying "I play Eldar and I have a "No Strength D on non-SH/GC" policy in friendly games" with people saying stuff like "Tailoring rules to suit yourself, you're the worst kind of guy."
It struck me as odd at the time, but I had to go out and the thread got archived before I could return, but it's been bugging me for a while. Isn't that guy only hindering himself? I mean, are there any races, apart from Eldar, that have S-D on non Super-heavy/Gargantuan creature?
>>44414805
If video games have taught me anything, it's that the Stormsurge will vibrate rapidly and violently until it dies.
And then its ragdoll corpse will possibly fly into the atmosphere.
>>44414822
>STORMSURGE SURFERS ROLLOUT!
>HAHA, FOOL, YOU CANNOT TARGET MY STORMSURGE FOR HE HAS A MIGHTY RHINO HELMET
>YOUR BLAST TEMPLATE MERELY DESTROYS YOUR OWN TANK, FOOLISH GUE'LA
>FOUL XENOS TRICKERY
>>44414801
So the stormsurge takes a 'removed from play' result, which it converts into d3 wounds, and we still have a stormsurge within 1" of a rhino and we move on with our fucking game?
>>44414830
Nah, videogame logic it'd be the Rhino that's clipping.
It'd vibrate awkwardly halfway lodged into the Stormsurge until it clips through the stage floor and falls forever.
>>44414829
I do the same thing with necrons. No tomb blades, ghost arcs, or wraiths to limit myself.
>>44414854
Where does the D3 come into play RAW wise.
>>44414822
>friendly games
>against modern Tau players
>who take Stormsurges
>and anchor them
I don't think so, Tim.
Wait, the Stormsurge has an open top. Shouldn't the two pilots be removed as well?
>>44414856
RHINO-KUN NOOOOOOOOOOOO
>Rhino respawns in mid-air and crushes your own marines
>>44414863
>No tomb blades
Why? My 8 man Neb/Beamer squad is the shit.
>>44414873
People can have fun games using OP models. The key is just not caring what happens except for seeing cool models in action.
Kitting out a land speeder for anti tank. Should I run twin multi meltas or one melts and assault cannon and flank slower vehicles.
>>44414889
Shouldn't a single frag grenade complete disable the thing?
