So Deadzone has released it Beta second edition rules.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3qDDz5MX5ApTW9Kenl4dnN3VzQ/view
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WwAvNjSehXZoB6RtMfkk8gP0J17LfdypYIg9aVp_kYw/edit?ts=566846d2#gid=0
Anyone had a chance to play them.
>>44372646
Pretty sure I have shot a whole bunch of these guys in Mass Effect.
>>44372646
> True line of sight.
>>44373239
Why does this asinine piece of shit rule keep spreading? Who is responsible for this? Alessio?
>>44373594
Seriously. They even got rid of it in Kings of War, but they kept it here? I'm not sure if it's a deal breaker for me, but I just don't get why some game companies keep using it. Nobody would be sad to see it go and keeping it just disappoints people like me.
>>44373239
Yes! It's still in! There's no better way to represent terrain than with tlos. I can't fucking wait until my ks stuff arrives. Got a couple guys looking forward to playing.
>>44372646
>Deadzone
Literally who?
>>44373923
I'd be sad to see it go. I love tlos. It's part of the game's immersion for me. I know it breaks down for competitive gaming, but for a casual gamer like me, I enjoy trying to see things from the perspective of my dudes. To me it's a shame a lot of games are shying away from it in favor of non-tlos, not sure what you call it, simulated los?
>>44373923
I once read that TLOS being in games is mostly due to Alessio Cavatore being obsessed with it, so any game he is involved with get's it shoved down its throat. KoW and Bolt Action being the prime examples here. He thinks it makes a game "immersive" and feel "hollywoodesque".
>>44373999
Fuck off.
>>44374043
Abstract TLOS. And I hate it with a fiery passion, not because I'm a competetive gamer. Never played at a tournament, not even once.
I'm mostly a modeller and hobbyist. And that's exactly the reason I despise it: It completely fucks up moddeling of BOTH miniatures AND terrain. It needs to die and the sooner it dies, the better.
>>44374094
Classic "I do not like thing therefore it is terrible for all" the post. How come I only ever hear whining about tlos on the internet? How come it doesn't seem to be an issue when I play?
I'm a modeler too and tlos is great because how I build things is represented on the table as they are built. Not treating what I made as a generic blob like everything else.
>>44374147
>>44374094
>>44374056
>>44374043
>>44373999
>>44373923
>>44373594
>>44373239
True line of sight is awful. Remember that guy that you had to place half an inch more to the right so he wouldn't fall over because that terrain piece he's next to wasn't very model friendly? Well sucks to be you, someone has line of sight to him and he's dead.
Remember your favourite model that you modeled standing up on a rock and pointing his men forward? Sucks because he can't hide behind shit, because somehow it's more realistic to autists to pretend that he's standing on that fucking rock 100% of the time.
Remember that terrain piece you made to be practical to game with? Well it doesn't really help hide anything because the games uses TLOS and you made the terrain piece to be practical for gaming.
TLOS fucks over modelers who just want their shit to look neat and promotes shady as hell stuff like converting your guys to crouch.
TLOS makes terrainbuilding a fucking chore because you can't just worry about looks cool any more you have to think about actually solidly blocking LOS because it would just kill the immersion to pretend that people are actually crouching behind cover, right?
There is seriously nothing good about it and the "immersion of getting your miniature's view of the battlefield" that is probably the only reason I can think of why you'd like it other than being REALLY into laser pointers, is completely negated by how TLOS assumes the characters stay in the position they're modeled in 100% of the time every time.ยจ
Abstractions like area terrain lead to way less arguments, less hassle positioning individual minis, and lets you model them however the fuck you want, it's the clear winner for me.
IMO Deadzone did TLoS right. There is advantage of making model physically bigger (easier to prevent clear shot) and also for making model smaller (easier to not be seen at all).
Not sure yet about how removing abstract cover will affect this.
>>44374147
>>44374147
>I'm a modeler too and tlos is great because how I build things is represented on the table as they are built
That's fucking retarded because it assumes that your minis stick to the exact same pose for the entirety of the game. It takes the LOS at face value, while abstracting the movement of the minis, which is fucking asinine. Not to mention the problems with modelling for advantage by making crawling miniatures, or minis with long weapons, wings or bug bases getting FUCKED.
>B-b-but wings, antennas, weapons and ornaments are ignored!
So TLOS is slightly less shit when you make it Not-TLOS? That obviously shows how great it is. Why the shit can I be shot at when the ass-end of my Tombstalker sticks out behind the wall, but when that Carnifex waves his giant cock-gun around he's completely safe?
>Not treating what I made as a generic blob like everything else.
Abstractions exist to ensure that a game is fair, you fucking faggot, not to make "everything a generic blob". That's what different terrain rules are there for: Taking in account WHAT kind of terrain it is, for fuck's sake. TLOS actually makes it impossible to properly model certain terrain types. Good luck with making a playable forest in TLOS. Smoke, Dust and Fog that fly around ruins and craters are simply nonexistant in TLOS, unless you actually plonk down cotton balls or painted foam, but again, good luck with actually moving your miniatures IN THERE.
>>44374212
>>44374274
Maybe like you someday I can be as passionately angry about something trivial in a game. But then again I'm not an autist who gets worked up so hard over one small aspect and bitches about how I don't like something on the internet and how angry it makes me that others do.
>>44374318
Not that guy, but attacking the fact that someone likes something is dickish.
I choose to spend my time and money on this hobby, so it is perfectly fine to get passionate about something I willingly invest myself in.
And givjng an opinion and reasoning even here on a taiwanese glyth board makes sense as this might convice people that Tlos is asine, maybe further down the road preventing a game adopting it.
>>44374367
I'm not attacking someone because he likes something, I'm attacking someone because he dislikes it and insults it.
>>44374390
He is right though. Nothing about TLOS makes any sense. Beside the problems wirh the models it makes playing the game tedious for no reason. It's simply bad gamedesign.
>>44374318
Different anon but it's not "one small aspect" when it fundamentally changes how the game plays.
>>44374318
>No counter argument whatsoever.
>Well, haha, have fun being angry, angry guy.
Wow, you totally sold me on TLOS. If the best argument you can come up with is that people who care about rules should get a life why the fuck are you in /tg/ in an argument about rules?
>>44374266
>There is advantage of making model physically bigger (easier to prevent clear shot)
>and also for making model smaller (easier to not be seen at all)
But clearly not being seen at all is objectively better?
I mean, it's not really a contest is it? Not being shot at vs being shot at.
>>44374390
Listing a bunch of arguments for why something is bad is "insulting" now?
>>44374795
Maybe, but after I have moved my model so that it can draw LoS, smaller target is more likely to be clear shot(ted?)
Bigger and more complex model will more likely still remain partially obscured.
>>44374807
Being a dick about it is insulting, not providing arguments.
![[Thoughtful expression].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/5IpHh0O.jpg "[Thoughtful expression].jpg")
Who the hell plays Deadzone? This is literally the first time I've heard of it.
>>44375399
/tg/ oriented human beings I think.
>>44375443
Where? It must have like, 5 players tops.
>>44375384
Lists arguments against TLOS
>wwah, stop being such a dick nerd about rules in a GAME.
But TLOS is seriously the worst, what are the arguments in favour of it?
>Waaah, stop being a dick, dick.
Seriously, you just sound like a bitch. Oh no, someone wasn't expressing himself super diplomatically about one of the worst wargame mechanics, how about actually joining the argument instead of focusing on being offended?
>>44375460
Well
>>44374318
>>44374390
>>44375384
This guy is apparently the president of the fanclub or one of the creators, ask him if the player base has broken 3 digits yet.
>>44375584
>ask him if the player base has broken 2 digits yet
FTFY
>>44375558
>Oh no, someone wasn't expressing himself super diplomaticall
Well, if you had used less retard calling this thread could actually still be in topic. Not saying that other anon acted any better, but I think he already got called for it.
>blaze away still gone
Everything else seems equally good or better than the original, though. Hopefully the fiddly shit works out.
>>44373999
>someone else who likes tlos
Faith in humanity restored.
>>44377887
I like it. The flaws listed above are all true though some are really not that much of a worry when you don't play dickheads. I know it's flawed and I love it still. I'd be prepared for a compromise but I find area terrain annoying as fuck I was glad to see it go in 40k.
>>44379231
Exactly. I know it's limitations too, but the overused term of cinematic really is fitting for it. Hatters gonna hat.
I don't care what you have to say, I'm not working for Cerberus.
It seems bizarre that they used true line of sight... Yet introduced the 'whole zone' mechanic which massively streamlines area of effect to cubes.
>>44383186
Deadzone 1st ed. TLOS rules were ok, because they were based around the idea that obscured view was the norm, instead of a penalty.
>>44383580
>>44383186
>>44372646
so wait is the new one TLOS or not
Because half of Mantic's schtick is proxy models, which is important with TLOS
>>44383665
The final version of Deadzone 2.0 uses TLoS.
>>44373134
kek
Okay, I'm going to use this as a place to ask since we haven't had a KoW thread in a while:
I plan to start Ogres, and I want to get the Ogre army deal. It lists that it comes with 12 Warriors and "command components." Are these components entire models, or are they just the metal upgrade parts? I want to run two 6 model units in my 1,000 point list as well as a Captain(who comes in the box) and a Standard Bearer. Is that possible? I can't find any sort of unboxing for the set fucking ANYWHERE.
So am I good with just the starter, or do I need to pick up another Warrior box as well?
