And the best evil character prize goes to...
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Really guys, why are you not basing a evil character on him?
At the start he looks like dart vader, evil, hateful, strange, probably mortally wounded by another jedi.
And you think "what a shitty character, they copied vader"
Then you found out
>the other general does not fear him, he hates him
>strong force user as expected by his family
>he cares about how he looks
>he is a weak fighter
>he failed to dodge a blaster hit coming from a point inside his arc of view.
>he has the mask of vader in his bedroom, not get confused about what he has to do
>he dress like vader for no reason
>he can't use the force to jump
He is not copied from vader, is just a beta male poser who wanted to be a war hero as everyone in his family
10/10 best new character, best evil character of the last 5 years , I really didn't thought to find such good one
>>44356350
Even though this is bait, I still agree with you. Kylo Ren was the only good thing about that movie.
>>44356350
The writers understood something very important. They needed something like vader but they knew that if they tried to make something even badder and grand it would fail miserably and pale in comparaison to the original. So they did the next best thing, they made a volountary pale comparaison of vader, they made someone who aspire to be vader but never will.
>>44356350
Can't wait to see it still. My pick for villain of 2015 so far had been Indominus. Best serial killer I've seen in a while.
Looking forward to seeing Kylo in the movie.
>>44356350
No, you retard.
The theme of this movie is repetition of the past: things repeat one generation after the other.
The Heroes are all young assholes succeeding the old cast, and SO ARE THE VILLAINS.
Kylo passes the movie being just as young and inexperienced as his counterparts; and like them he has a moment in wich he understands what he is to do in the future.
He's just still LV1.
>>44356532
I noticed some interesting subversions of Episode IV characters; Finn is Rey's Han (the probably normal guy to get gifted hero), but unlike Han is a more immediately decent person while being much less experienced and calm then Han's cocky badass attitude like he's seen everything there is to see. In fact Finn is pretty much useless outside of anything he wasn't trained for, which is quite a bit.
Kylo Ren is clearly their Vader, but rather then be an aged man with a long history of violence and war experience who is in complete control of the endless font of anger and self-loathing that drives him, Ren is wracked by personal doubts, obviously highly inexperienced compared to Vader, and is unsure if he REALLY wants to be a bad guy at heart and struggles not with being a bad guy who's good at heart but being a decent person who desperately would rather be evil, only making that final step in this film.
So instead of starting out as the badass immediate threat, Ren is going to grow in skill and experience along with the heroes I think.
>>44356500
Its so cool hating on TFA
>>44356557
Agreed, it's repetition
But still, as a trained jedi he fail to insta kill inexperienced not trained enemies.
Sound like an inept to me
>>44356350
See, I didn't really like him because he was a poseur. I like Evil to be grand, frightening and perversely alluring. Like Nazis marching in jackboots, you can sense that these people are serious. Sure, they're evil bastards, but you can understand why people would be drawn to them.
It's like what happens in a lot of LNs, when the hero's starting rival turns out to be cringing coward and a bully when the chips are down. Now, this is wrong: Usually, bullies are very physically brave. It just comes down to a hitting match in the end. They don't crumble or fold unless they get physically beaten and even then it's an ugly, slugging match.
Worthy heroes need equally worth villains. I like to be make villains who are particularly gleeful in their evil, who love, love what they're doing. That gives them immense self-confidence, because they feel like they have the biggest penis ever. (Also, girls want bad-boys.)
If a villain is a joke, you're not going to have a satisfying battle. Frankly, Ren should have wrecked both Finn and the stronk womyn in the fight. He already got punked in their first-ever confrontation: How is the audience supposed to see him as a threat?
I mean, if I was directing - the moment the girl went"You're afraid you'll never be as strong as Vader."I'd have had Ren immediately crack her across the face, as hard as he could, to re-establish physical dominance. Or the part wherePoe was captured, Ren should have immediately said:
> "Break his hands. Let's see how good a pilot he is then."Poe was meant to die in the first movie, and his unexplained escape is a big plot hole. They should have killed him to show that Ren was not to be fucked with.
>>44356598
If you talking about the final combat sequence, he was wounded by a weapon that had been shown to throw people across the room when he was zoned out after crossing the moral event horizon, fought some one who was actually some what train in combat while so wounded receiving more wounds but eventually winning and then finally only taken down after a protracted fight while slowly bleeding out.
>>44356615
The "womyn" bait aside, I actually agree with 100%. Even if Ren was a fucking desperate little poseur, he could have at least went off the deep end and done some serious shit... if only to convince himself that he was worthy of what he's striving to be.
>>44356639
I mean, this is especially important when you realize Ren has a lot to live up to.He isn't a member of the Knights of Ren, he's their leader. Also, he killed all of Luke Skywalker's students. This means he's an incredible bad-ass.
>>44356636
I agree with you, but I still feel torn about the final fight. Kylo Ren was inexperienced, hurt and tired, but it still seemed to easy to beat him. For all of that, it was literally the first time Rey used a lightsaber in a duel with a trained force user. I'm a little worried that JJ is going to drop the ball with this.
>>44356647
Do we have sources regarding the Knights of ren, except for what the movie has stated?
>>44356660
Not really. But it's definitely stated in the movie that he's their leader. You see that short clip with Ren standing with the rest of them in the Force vision.
>>44356350
Semi-related, but Snoke is a fucking shitty name. Why 'Snoke'?
>>44356655
True but it was shown earlier in the film Rey was a mean scrapper with the pole of hers. She did grow up on a lawless hell hole of a planet.
>>44356675
>Star Wars
>Having anything but shitty names
Haven't you just come to accept that it's part of the settings charm?
>>44356675
People have shitty names.
I know a person by the name or Darla Rates.
people hwo name things are dumb
>>44356693
What? No, not really. 'Palpatine' is a pretty intimidating name, until we found out it was really 'Sheev'. 'Darth Vader' just sounds ominous as fuck.
Fuck, man. Even Hitler changed his name! It was Adolf Schleckgrubber or something like that at first.
>>44356675
My name is Karmen. That is a stupid name, but it was what my parents chose for me. My sister is Charlyne.
Palpatine's first name is Sheev.
>>44356704
idk, Sheev kind of reminds me of shiv. And he certainly was a vicious backstabber.
>>44356553
Bellissimo.
>>44356704
You forgot Greedo, Grievous, Annie and Jar Jar.
For every kind of cool name there are two that are just awful.
>>44356726
Grievous isn't bad. Greedo sounds perfect for a low-rent thug, which Greedo was. And I think we've universally agreed that Jar Jar is fucking bullshit.
>>44356689
She's still completely untrained and inexperienced versus someone who is supposed to be one of the best force users in the galaxy.
Better question, why haven't you based your BBEG off Dark Helmet?
>>44356689
Yeah, but I'll point out: In the OT, Luke was trained by a real Jedi Master. What happened when he fought Vader?
Vader fucked his shit up, with comparatively little effort. Meanwhile, Ren was doing kung fu spins and blade-twirls as he went for them. The only fight that went as I expected was Finn versus Ren, and even then Finn somehow got a hit in. This is a man who got his shit shoved in by a guy with a baton, too.
>>44356738
Because I could never hope to be as funny as Mel Brooks and Rick Moranis. Next question.
I think they dropped the ball when they let Reye resist/win the mind rape battle.
I can suspend disbelief and think that she's not going to cut herself into pieces with her own lightsaber, even that she can beat him because he's wounded. But shit, she has literally NO FORCE TRAINING AT ALL. Yet she acts almost as if she was already a jedi.
>>44356735
Well he's only one of the best by the merit of being half trained and alive with the vast majority of trained force users being dead.
>>44356751
Rey's power level seemed to go up by leaps and bounds for no apparent reason. Learning the force is a long, slow process that requires years of training and introspection/hate. Unless JJ needs a hero ASAP.
That more than anything else is what is making me nervous about how her character development is going to go from here on out. If she keeps growing at her current rate she'll have Palpatine levels of power by the end of the second movie, assuming no time skips.
>>44356350
Ren was nothing more than a whiny little bitch clearly written to be a tumblr fangirl pandering woobie instead of an interesting character. They didn't even try to hide the fact his only purpose is to pander to the David Tennant worshiping crowd.
>>44356689
>Best
>One of the only
Fixed that for you. Because it's Luke, Ren, Supreme Leader, the Knights of Ren, whatever the fuck those are, and now Rey. That's it. Those are the ONLY remaining trained force users in the galaxy as far as we know.
>>44356776
Dude, you can't have women brutally beaten or harmed in a movie. Like, when women are hurt in shows, it's never an injury that uglies her up. It's like a panty fighter, where the girls only get injuries that cause them to lose their clothes.
I mean, there are shows like Freezing when really ugly bone-crunching injuries happen, but that's wince-inducing to watch. If Ren had beaten her to a pulp/fried her brain, the audience would come away with a bad taste in their mouth.
You've probably notice that she's not significantly injured in any way in the movie. She's not even HIT in the lightsabre battle, while Finn gets stabbed in the shoulder and slashed across the back.
I'm willing to bet money on her never ever sustaining any major injuries. (Even Padme dies in a nice and clean way. She's not visibly damaged by the Force Choking.)
>>44356735
She's Luke's daughter and had the training of a youngling before begin dropped off on Tatooine 2.0.
>>44356785
I think part of this stems from the force being hinted as being semi-sentient and giving her a boost to try and fix the current disarray it's in.
>>44356808
I hope they don't do this. I really, really hope beyond reason it doesn't go this way.
>>44356735
>>44356795
Meant to respond to that post. My bad.
>>44356817
The Luke's daughter part is iffy. But the rest is already established in her flashbacks.
I think you guys are missing something here. Ren is comparatively easy on Rey because they are setting up for a redemption plot.
She is the prof that the power of the light is comparable to the dark side and gives him pause. She challenges his beliefs.
Ren will be brought back to the light. Mark my words.
As long as we're talking about the movie, I have a question: what planets got blown up by the Death Star III? I can't recall if we were ever actually told their names.
>>44356850
Probably right before/as he sacrifices himself for the greater good/some one he cares about deep down.
>>44356854
Basically, all of the New Republic.
>>44356854
Pretty sure Coruscant was one of them.
>>44356854
The Hosnian System. For the life of me I can't remember any mention of them before this movie. I think JJ made them up just to kill them off.
>>44356854
They named the system like once, otherwise they're completely nameless and it's unbelievable we were actually expected to care.
>>44356854
Not courascant, no matter how much the planet looked like a recycled prequel coruascant set.
Some new lore about the new republic convening on different member planets other than coruascant to distance themselves from the empire
the system that was Starkilled wasn't named in movie so you'd have to look it up on wookiepedia.
he's up there with jar jar
>>44356874
The other anon was right, they say it maybe one time in the movie. I don't blame anyone for missing it. The more I think back on that whole scene, the worse it gets. It's the ol' stuffed in the fridge trope applied to a whole star system.Not to mention, the visuals for the star system blowing up were shit. I remember thinking that we were getting some sort of god's eye view watching the lasers closing in on the planets, but nope. They really are that close to each other. And close enough to a completely different star system to be able to visibly see each planet getting blown up. God dammit that whole thing was shit.
>>44356887
Even Alderaan got more on-screen development than those planets did.
>>44356715
>Implying Sheev is a bad name
>Implying so hard right now
The Sheev cannot be cleaved.
>>44356918
literally did not know that was his name. I-I thought it was just a meme
>>44356922
The more you know, the more you drink
Was i the only one who felt that Luke had left his lightsaber with some kind of Force Mojo which caused Rey to become competent? Like, a time-delay jedi knowledge injection that would get mindfucked into the first person who touched it who the Force judged worthy? Its the only way i can think of other than lol she's just that good for why she suddenly started using serious force mojo soon afterwards. Still doesnt explain her 1337 piloting skills, but i think thats just the inevitableSkywalker bloodcoming out.>>44356887
That whole scene was awful, rushed and difficult to watch. While the movie had its good bits, it still had more than enough holes to detract from my enjoyment. A Gods Eye View of three solar systems being destroyed from above over fifteen seconds would have been much better, as well as some exposition on those planets
>>44356931
Sounds like your mind just trying to save poor film making/storytelling. JJ is the expensive fanfiction man. He fucked Star trek now Star wars.
>>44356949
JJ was always more suited to make a Star Wars movie than he was to make a Star Trek movie. Star Wars has always been a character Drama with laser swords and space Nazis, and I'm fine with that.
For the most part, the movie was enjoyable. I even liked the ham fisted symbolism at the end of the movie. Hell, that was probably one of my favorite parts.
It's just that JJ needs to show a little more reverence for the source material to keep that feeling of verisimilitude. That and sense of scale, Jesus Christ do all writers that aren't Asimov fail at that?
>>44356949
On a bare minimum level it can't be worse than episode 1-3. I mean in episode one Young Annie goes from great race car driver to ace fighter pilot because "lol teh force".
>>44356931
The lightsaber she found was the one that dropped out of the bottom of the cloud city, the one that should have just been lost forever.
At least the EU had an actual goddamn reason to asspull it being found again.
>>44356969
Oh? I wasn't aware it was actually found again in the EU.
>>44356931
I'm so sorry your autism and nostalgia goggles make it impossible for you to enjoy things.
Go back and watch the original trilogy. It's not actually all that great. And I am saying this as someone who just got done jerking off to Star Wars porn fanfiction.
>>44356969
Are we sure it was that one and not just a new one he made between the 6th and 7th film? I mean if I recall correctly jedi often refine and replace their lightsabers over time.
>>44356967
You think such and irreverent fuck would, you know take the movie somewhere different, or rehash the old themes better. Instead of trying to do both. I dunno man.
>>44356968
I felt like this movie made me realise star wars is shit. I didn't want that feel.
>>44356969
No reason Luke can't have tracked it down in the Disney universe pre-ren, Mojo'd it just before exiling himself like a pussy little bastard
>>44356949
Oh, i know, but i honestly enjoyed the better bits, and since other than piloting reel gud despite no experiencethe usual skywalker trait, all of them are guilty of thisshe only became competent post-lightsaber-flashback scene. Between the Force calling for her, the complete mindfuck and the sudden competency afterwards, its something i could accept. Plus it means that we dont have to have multi-year timeskips between episodes
>>44356969
Why should it have been lost forever? It's a piece of metal with a power signature on a world that has mining droids everywhere.
>>44357007
Did you quote the wrong person anon? He's actually trying to justify things in the movie.
>>44357007
>autism and nostalgia goggles
wow, never did i say anything about the originals-they have their flaws. I'm just saying that the death-planet firing scene was awful and could have been immensely improved.
>>44356967
Abrams doesn't seem to have much sense of anything. I'd be embarrassed if I were him at how hard his lack of creativity really showed with that movie. I'm excited though to see how these actors fare under someone else.
The one thing that keeps bugging me is the fucking "Resistance" thing. Grand Moff Ginger states in his speech that the Republic is funding the Resistance... but it appears to be just the fucking Republic Army. And why the hell wouldn't the Republic be in open war with a fucking Sith Cult? What senator is going to blush over that?
>>44357019
> it still had more than enough holes to detract from my enjoyment.
No, I'm just calling him a fag because he thinks the plot holes here hurt the movie enough to bitch about it, but seems to casually ignore the fact that the original trilogy was just as bad.
>>44356994
Yeah, it was kind of bullshit, apparently it got caught in an air shaft on the city and a maintenance droid found it and Luke's hand, then it just happened to be picked up later by Vader and stored in some vault by the Emperor who later used the hand to make a clone of Luke and armed it with the saber, then Luke gave it to some bitch he fucked.
The EU is shit, and I'm fucking happy it's not canon, but at least it showing up again was fucking explained.
>>44357011
It was very specifically explained to be the same lightsaber used by Anakin and Luke.
>>44357026
I figured the New Republic was just exhausted after 30-odd years of civil war and didn't have the money or will to finish off the First Order. So they settle for funding the Resistance.
>>44357026
Shit, that's another thing that bugged me. Why the fuck is there a resistance if there is no empire? The hell are they resisting in the interim after the empire falls and the New Order shows up? Why didn't the resistance army get rolled up into the newly created republic army? Who says no to an army of veterans with their logistics all set up?
God damn, that whole section just raised way more questions than it answered.
>>44357035
....That's....kinda plausible.
>>44356969
Really, the objects in this movie were the worst part.
>Millenium Falcon JUST HAPPENS to be on Tatoo- er, I mean, Jakku.
>Happens to be in the EXACT FUCKING PLACE the characters need it to be to escape with it.
>They then go to the place where Luke's Lightsabre HAPPENS to be kept in the basement - and you can't argue "lolmuhforce" because HAN is the one who chooses where they go.
God but the plot was cringeworthy. It was insane and disjointed when it wasn't being a New Hope fanfic.
Still, least everything else was priddy good.
>>44357026
Proxy war with plausible deniability anon, there is no way the new republic would declare war on a rival power....thats something the empire and the republic is TOTALLY better than them
>>44357026
Supposedly, there's some BS in a new book that explains that the people of the core systems voted against assembling against the imperial remnants in control of some some rm planets in a "fuck it we're tired of war" bitch out.
>>44357043
And I know the only goddamn reason its called that is so that its closer to "The Rebellion." Fucking Abrams. I honestly think space terrorists can be just as cool as evil space empire
>>44357052
Best part is watching the dumbass fanboys bending over backwards to try to explain away the inconsistencies, bad writing, and massive plotholes.
I haven't laughed this hard since finding out the EU has fucking massive amount of text written about "Darth Vader's personal lightsaber form he invented" just to explain away that it was hard for the actor to move in the costume.
>>44357052
FU I can still "lolmuhforce" by saying the lightsaber knew Han would chose to go there so it went there first and waited. HA!
>>44357052
Actually Lol Muhforce workes.
Han's luck and bad feelings is the force working through him, and don't forget that Chewie was personal friends with Yoda 60 years ago.
>>44357053
Why the fuck do you need plausible deniability to go to war with a very clearly open Sith/Imperial Cult? With stormtroopers and star destroyers and everything? And what other space nation is the Republic trying to impress with their "neutrality" then? Any senator who suggested that the fucking dark side cult with massive star ships doesn't need to be fought would be laughed out of office.
>Really guys, why are you not basing a evil character on him?
Because he's a joke character. I like my villains to be actually competent and intimidating.
>>44356871
just like Alderaan
>>44357073
doesn't matter, watched star wars
>>44357084
Because most of the galaxy doesn't believe the Jedi/Sith are anything more than fairytales.
>>44357073
Eh, you can find plotholes in anything really if you look hard enough. Though I'll admit this had some glaring ones, I'll let those slide because rule of cool and decent presentation.
>>44357093
or at least, theyre seen as nothing more than a schisming religion of some description. Does america start hunting down Shiites because a Sunni is agitating for them to be shot before they cause the apocalypse?
>>44357088
At least Leia was there so we could vicariously feel sad.
>>44357078
There is a big difference between "I have a bad feeling about this" and "Luke's lightsaber is in the basement of the place I decide to visit the one time I visit this place with the one person who this would be at all relevant to."
There's so many easy ways to fix this too or make it more plausible, except they really wanted to whip out that lightsaber as soon as possible. Honestly, R2 should have had it, or Leia or someone like that.
>>44357093
I still find it kind of silly that the Emperor was so good at suppressing the history of the Jedi to turn them from an ancient order of warrior-monks who served as military advisers and guardians of the republic for thousands of years into a crazy fairly tale that almost no one who isn't a wizard even believes existed in the span of one generation.
>>44357088
Alderaan still got more on-screen development than those planets did.
>>44357094
No, stop. When you do that, the Abrams of the world win. Yeah, all Star Wars movies have had little plot holes before, but this entire plot was a gaping black hole of logical leaps. You can demand better.
>>44357104
Not to mention that there's a good chance that a more than significant number of races in the Galaxy were fucking alive during the Clone Wars and probably fucking MET Jedi first hand.
>>44357093
Yeah, but they know the fucking Empire wasn't a fairytale.
>>44357084
Because the republics legitamacy is born from being a democratic and open society that goes for diplomatic solutions rather than a quasi feudal police state that's legitamacy is born by force of arms
>>44357104
to be fair the Jedi seem extremely fucking insular to a fault
but I do sort of agree to you, and there should be better record keeping also, records that would be extremely fucking difficult to purge.
they lead a fucking GIGANTIC, like, something you could scarcely conceptualize, Army across the galaxy against a force that was extremely well-funded and armed in open battle, getting plenty of chances to show off their more flashy and obvious "I am a Space Wizard" abilities to all kinds of people.
>>44357106
Also, Alderaan had a reason to be destroyed - it was part of the Empire at that point, and got blammed to teach all those other planets a lesson. In this movie its just "mumblemumbleORDERmumblemumbleSPACEGUN."
>>44356350
The only difference between hated evil and feared evil is that you'll have more support killing hated evil. Which means hated evil is usually just a step on the way to the actual boss.
>>44357104
Personally I put it down to the holonet being largelyexclusively run by system administration and not third parties like the real world
>>44357125
With Rebels being canon and reintroducing Ahsoka and her thick dick sucking lips (I am so gonna draw some porn of her), clearly even the 20 years between 3 and 4 showed that the Jedi were not really gone.
>>44357120
Ok, so who the fuck would vote AGAINST a motion to do something about the crazy cultists with STAR DESTROYERS. And if it's really all "not our problem", why fund the Resistance at all? There is no good reason the Resistance shouldn't have been the Republic Army.
>>44356647
>killed all of Luke Skywalker's students. This means he's an incredible bad-ass.
Ah yes, because Anakin was also a bad-ass killing the younglings.
>>44356704
>palpatine is pretty intimidating
>tfe in your language "palpatine" means "fondlings"
The "'Jedi are nothing more than a myth' not making any fucking sense" problem is more a fault of the prequels being fucking shit and making the Jedi WAY too prominent in the events that unfolded than anything.
>>44357150
see
>>44357058
The voting public overwhelmingly said "we don't want another war", an the senators voted as they were told but still helped fight them anyway because the needed to do something to get Leia off the meth.
>>44357156
Admit it, he gave off Father McFeely vibes.
>>44357150
Why haven't the world's governments united and gone to war against ISIS? Why hasn't the US just spearheaded a massive eradication campaign in the Middle East?
That's why.
On the point of "why didn't Kylo Ren just fuck up/kill Poe or Rey" I thought that fit it perfectly with his character. He's not Vader who had no qualms about killing off the captain of the Tantive IV and even his own officers. Rather than being like Anakin was, a lightside character at risk of the temptation of the dark side, he's a dark side user at risk of reverting back to the light. It shows that even though he's a tryhard wannabe for Vader, he isn't and will never be as ruthless.
>>44357163
>an the senators voted as they were told
Probably THE most unrealistic fucking fantasy bullshit right there.
>>44357168
Except the US goverment is bombing them, Russia is bombing themsometimes, France wants to bomb them, Syria is bombing them, Iraq would bomb them if they weren't incompetent.
>>44357176
Star Wars has always had a rather simplistic view on government. It let JarJar Binks become a senator.
>>44357180
>It let JarJar Binks become a senator.
You say that like that's not completely realistic.
I know we're talking Lore right now, but for a group of newfags who've only ever played two campaigns of Pathfinder before should I run Star Wars Saga Edition or the new one from the people who made the Warhammer 40k RPGs?
>>44357180
>TFW you realize that JarJar is smarter than some members of the US House and Senate
>>44357150
Because the Republic was probably war weary from subjugating the majority of the remnants of the empire that weren't absorbed into the first order in the time between the old trilogy and Episode VII
>>44357189
Disregard both, play WEG's D6 Star Wars.
>>44357193
As mentioned before in the thread, that is the canon explanation.
>>44357197
Not to sound like a cunt, but why? What's so special about it?
>>44357127
Not-Coruscant had a reason to be destroyed too: it was the seat of the fucking New Republic government. It was the space equivalent of dropping a nuke on DC to declare war on the US.
>>44357207
Saga is d20 shit, FFG's EotE requires bullshit expensive special snoflake dice that you will only use for THAT game, D6 just requires a bunch of D6's and has the simplest rules of the 3.
Kylo Ren is a brute, unlike Vader or palpatine he lacks any sort in the finesse when it comes to using the force or fighting, sure he can stop a blaster bolt full stop but the exertion is almost certainly unnecessary
>>44357156
>fondlings
can't get peeved by Sheev
>>44357219
My group and I only really know d20 Shit. I played like two sessions of D&D 4, and as a group we've only played Pathfinder.
But definitely give WEG's game a look tho.
>>44357219
in fairness to those bullshit dice, if you can convince a retarded friend to buy them, the game is fun as hell.
I wouldn't pay money for them, but hot damn if the game isn't some good old fashioned space fun.
>>44357219
>>44357249
Are they really so special snowflake that you can't just use a bunch of regular RPG dice?
>>44357244
>My group and I only really know d20 Shit.
Never, EVER, let that keep you from trying other games. Most games are far easier to learn and play than d20 was.
>But definitely give WEG's game a look tho.
You'll pick up how the mechanics work in an afternoon tops, it's dead simple.
>>44357249
I don't doubt it, but I'll be damned if I'm going to let FFG think I approve of that bullshit by giving them my money.
>>44357270
There's conversion charts for the dice. If referencing charts EVERY SINGLE TIME YOU ROLL just to figure out what the dice are supposed to say before even figuring out your roll's result is your idea of a good time, don't let me stop you.
>>44357270
you'd have to tape shit to the outside or some shit so yeah
>>44357285
If the dice are that expensive (for dice, anyway) and the system is solid enough despite that, I wouldn't say I'd find that extra step fun but I wouldn't really mind it. I mean, you can always just print out copies of the table and get them laminated or something.
>>44357244
http://d6holocron.com/downloads/wegcore.html
Here, have pretty much all the books and a ton of fan material.
>>44356850
Yeah and Rey will fall, we know.
You can get a free dice app for the ffg rpg
>>44357189
Saga4ever
>>44356639
Not who you replied to, but what bait? She's the stupidest fucking character. She's absurdly powerful for no reason, literally nobody dislikes her at all at any point, she doesn't actually have any flaws at all, and she just pulls random powers out of her ass when she needs them.
>>44357535
There's a word for what she is, I won't say it because thanks to /tg/ using it for "characters I don't like" it's lost almost all meaning and just gets people riled up when you use it, but in this case she is a legit that. Like almost textbook definition.
>>44357535
Luke didn't really have any flaws in ANH either, unless you count getting more emotional about Obi-Wan's death than the deaths of his aunt and uncle.
And don't say his flaw is naivete, because that's an issue maybe once in the movie, in the cantina scene.
>>44357052
>you can't argue "lolmuhforce"
What? Of course you can, one in a million coincidences is most of how the force works.
>>44357332
Oh god that would be so glorious, action girl protag becomes the villain
>>44357560
Luke at least actually trained a great deal and still wasn't good enough to properly face Vader. I agree there's some comparison, but imagine how fucking stupid it would have been if Han Solo had, a few days after meeting Luke, said 'could you take over from my lifelong friend because you're so darn swell?'
Rey is sort of like Luke in the flawless way, but to some extent that's the farmboy archetype. However, with her, she has the most amazingly generic backstory, and she never doubts herself for long enough for it to have an effect, and she just has whatever powers are needed to save the day and even sometimes ones that aren't needed but just make her look cool.
>>44357579
You have a point, but Ren isn't fully trained either. Then again, that just brings up the issue that the main villain is a better-developed character than the protagonist.
>>44357560
Are you kidding? Luke is a little bitch. He's not remotely powerful, and he accomplishes nothing besides being courageous. His one big moment is learning how to channel the Force, and making the million-to-one shot with his X-Wing.
Even then, he needs help from Obi-wan's Force Ghost, and Han Solo. In the second film, when he finally fights Vader, Vader beats him down like a red-headed stepchild.
Rey, however, can do EVERYTHING. She speaks every language, is a great fighter, is a Jedi *and* the successor to Han Solo, is a great shot, is an excellent technician...The list goes on. Finn, in contrast, is the more Luke Skywalker-esque character in that he's basically a pawn in the hands of fate. Notice how Finn loses EVERY physical confrontation he gets into?
>>44357598
But at least Ren WAS trained. Rey had NONE what-so-ever.
>>44357563
No, its lost all meaning as a mystical energy field that flows through those who have trained to use it, and has become a literally galaxy controlling force to patch up any ploy holes the writers make
>>44357629
>anon just realized the force spans the galaxy
Welcome to the 70s
>>44357598
The main villain killed his father and slaughtered a pile of actually trained jedi, before going off to train in the dark side. Then, up against the guy who struggled against a clone with a big stick, already being wounded puts them on an even level.
Then he faces Rey. Somehow, she's managed to learn the force (which Luke couldn't do without a lot of training from some of the greatest jedi ever) and is stronger than someone who has actual training. She gets the saber and despite only being trained in a polearm, she's able to fight off Ren, who inexplicably decides to try to redeem her and make her join him. If he weren't doing that he could have easily pivoted his saber many times and burned her face off. She proved as strong and as skilled as him, until she closed her eyes for a few seconds and completely annihilated him, leaving an amazingly cool villain to be saved by the asspull of the land splitting in half.
>>44356738
Kylo Ren taking off his helmet reminded me of this.
Damn his face is just awful. I mean, i get what they tried to do but... It just didn't go well
>>44356752
good answer.
Literally everything to do with ren would be fine if he had some sort of force 'moment', or SOMETHING to reflect his force potential, SOMETHING to show he was merely a bitch nigga in training, rather than just a full out bitch nigga.
>>44356553
I really want to watch this now.
I'm almost sure there is more to Reys' force ability than is being presented at the moment. Hell, in the book Ren says "It is you" when she takes up the lightsaber implying he knows her from somewhere before.
>>44357615
Languages never seemed to be a huge deal in the Star Wars universe. The only time I ever remember a language barrier being relevant in the movies was with the Ewoks. And maybe just a little bit with R2D2.
Succeeding Han as the owner of the Falcon isn't THAT big of a deal. It's just a ship. An iconic ship, sure, but it's really something that's inevitable, especially if Finn's in a coma.
Everyone who isn't a stormtrooper shooting at a protagonist is a great shot. And don't forget how Luke used to bulls-eye womp rats in his T-16 back home.
>>44357642
>f he weren't doing that he could have easily pivoted his saber many times and burned her face off.
Pivoting your lightsaber in a duel is something that's never, ever happened in a Star Wars movie.
Fucking hell people, it's like you forget the original trilogy were just a bunch of really awesome to watch summer blockbusters before summer blockbusters were a huge thing.
>>44357676
Might be to do with the fact that he's just been mentally cockblocked by her force powers, and he knows she's force sensitive.
>>44357642
Frankly, I think Ren wanted to fuck her. But he wasn't doing so good in that.
>>44356801
>muh lack of brutal violence
>in star wars
come on man. Finn doesn't collapse in a pile of blood and broken bones, it's a slash and he's out. Ren gets shot in the gut and cut twice, the only thing we really see is a bad ass unbleeding wound that will turn into a scar.
star wars just isn't big on the whole bloody violence, bar limb removal (that doesn't even bleed"
if you need to watch a woman get beat out to get your jollies, watch hateful 8, it's pre good.
>>44357701
I'm pretty sure most wounds from a lightsaber would be instantly cauterized. (at least a little, at any rate.)
I like to think Kylo Ren doesn't know the full story of Darth Vader, about how he essentially sacrificed himself to save his son
Maybe that's why Luke feels guilty aboutBen turning Dark Side, if he told him about about his father Anakin Skywalker instead of the infamous Darth Vader maybe Ben wouldn't have been so fascinated with him
>>44357127
did you not watch the movie?
and operate off of a strict diet of /tv/ posters?
>>44357720
woah lad what now
Wookiepedia link pl0x
>>44357719
Yeah, and blaster shot would cauterize too, wouldn't they?
>>44357720
>about how he essentially sacrificed himself to save his son
That's practically a given. If he knew that Vader turned to the Light Side in his dying moments, Ben never would have turned to the Dark Side in the first place.
>>44357719
honestly i think i'd be more happy if they both walked away with cuts and scars, but what we got isn't bad by any stretch.
>>44357735
Are you seriously trying to provice a counter argument with an example of a fucing 'blaster'?
There are at least like...what? 8934275094238759023475239-04875234780952903487590823475-2938407523409875092384750923847509238475923847590238745098723405878023875098234759-23485098234857820379458720-94385230897570982347509823475928530457902348759823475098234750982374589723045289304
Different kinds of blaster in the star wars setting? try harder please.
>>44356350
Plot is literally ANH 2.0
Sucks
>>44357759
Christ man, calm your autism. I meant it seriously. I was expanding on how bloodless violence is largely justified in-setting, but I'm not totally confident in my familiarity with the shit beyond the movies.
>>44357796
You're in a fucking star wars thread.
Autism should have been your first concern.
I'm the guy you replied to, I often wonder if I'm autistic so you're probably not far off desu senpai baka.
>>44357535
>She's absurdly powerful for no reason, literally nobody dislikes her at all at any point, she doesn't actually have any flaws at all, and she just pulls random powers out of her ass when she needs them.
Change a few pronouns and you're describing Finn as well. Chewbacca and R2-D2 too.
>thread talking about how to make Ren a good villain in a TTRPG
>turns into /tv/ tier shitposting
never change /tg/ i would hate to see a good thread.
Say what you will about Ren but he has hell of a lot stronger will than Vader or most other force users, having taken far worse wounds and kept going. And he's still a relative newb.
>>44356598
No force user that's taken that level of damage has been shown to do better in the movies. Vidya protagonists do better because... well, for whatever reason, getting shot 40 times per level is perfectly normal.
Not to mention he seems to have his own cadre of dark siders.
>>44357821
but you don't understand
SHES A GIIRRRLLLLL the le feminist agenda strikes again!
>>44357668
His time stop thing sure seems to qualify, not to mention his ripping memories from people.
>>44357807
Not the guy you're assblasted about, but please. For all of us. Kill yourself
>>44357840
This is true, but really, would a SINGLE like, 5 seconds of screen time to show that this cunt is SRUS BSNSS hurt? I get what you mean, but a physical representation in a lightsaber duel would have been cool.
Mayb I'm a casul tho.
>>44357855
y tho
>>44356350
>>44356532
True, just saw the film and this is one of my favourite things about it. Very solid move. I'd assume he'll grow into a bigger villain, but that can work too.
Also his character references Anakin's general angstiness but without making me want to murder him to death, which compared with the prequels is quite an achievement.
Having said that, it baffles me how they make that good call and then do exactly the opposite with theStarkiller. "Let's make an even bigger, even scarier Death Star that actually blows up even more easily!"
I haven't watched the movie but I like what Disney's done with the franchise (i.e. declared the entire EU non-canon). Sad that that means KotOR is now officially non-canon, too, but considering how shit the EU as a whole was, I'd say it's justifiable collateral damage.
>>44357759
And of those 934275094238759023475239-04875234780952903487590823475-2938407523409875092384750923847509238475923847590238745098723405878023875098234759-23485098234857820379458720-94385230897570982347509823475928530457902348759823475098234750982374589723045289304 different kinds of blaster, all of them work the exact same way, dipshit.
>>44357893
Prove it.
>>44357891
There's a decent chance that Revan will be made canon again, at least as a Sith. All it takes is one reference.
>>44357821
>>44357833
Finn doubts himself. Until of course she motivates him to be brave. He can't hold his own in a fight. He's widely hated by the stormtroopers and by Ren.
>>44357680
>And don't forget how Luke used to bulls-eye womp rats in his T-16 back home.
Which is the reason he could fly an X-wing in the first place.
>>44357905
Finn doesn't doubt himself. His arguments for leaving are based entirely on his knowledge of what the First Order is capable of and a desire to avoid fighting. Being hated by stormtroopers isn't a flaw.
>>44357868
>5 seconds of screen time to show that this cunt is SRUS BSNSS hurt
Eh, he did as much as Vader in ANH. I was cringing when he was burning poor Finn's shoulder and otherwise brutalizing him, and he almost won two lightsaber fights in a row while taking a wound that should, by all means, kill him, and that hurt enough to have him screaming in pain. Not to mention his concentration was further disrupted by having to kill Dad, and, oh yeah, failing to protect his master's ultimate weapon.
He should probably be lightsabering up people left and right next movie, though.
>>44357904
I hope so. If they could just make the KotOR games canon, I'd be pretty much set.
>>44357923
>he almost won two lightsaber fights in a row
He pretty solidly won the first lightsaber fight. Hell, he was nearly showboating his way through the fight with Finn.
>>44356850
I know I'm slowpoking this, but I really hope Ren dies like a bitch. Just realizes he's a fucking piece of shit failure and dies like the waste of oxygen he is. Yes I'm salty, that nigger ruined the best tag team in the galaxy.
>>44357654
I just wondered how a guy with a face like that could be Han and Leia's son.
Did he really just end up with the perfect ugly recessive genes?
>>44357676
That flashback thing of her being abandoned makes me think there's potential for her to have had training in the past - and I think >>44356931 may have something with touching the lightsaber having an effect too, be it giving her knowledge or breaking memory lock thing (or both)
Really, any combination of
- training and memories that have been memory-locked in some way
- being a Skywalker
- skills via the force from the lightsaber
- Ren being injured
- Ren wanting to fuck her and bring her to the dark side
Any of these would make some degree of sense, as long as they follow them up.
Honestly a short Godfather II-style mid movie flashback or two of Luke training and then abandoning his daughter and/or padawan when he runs away from the ashes of his attempt to rebuild the Jedi to be a hermit would make a lot of sense
>>44357923
Yea, and while I still hold on to those things I'm complain about, I do know it's going to be a trilogy, so it doesn't really bother me much.
>>44357680
>pivoting lightsaber
The point of that is Ren has those things sticking out the side and with only a twist he couldve done what he did to Fin to Rey. But he didnt.
Also, what really bugged me was how he didnt use the force in either fight except to knock Rey away temporarily. He easily couldve immediately choked the shit out of Fin and then coup de graced Rey but no.
>>44356350
I just loved that there was finally a villain who DIDN'T SHOOT THE MESSENGER!
He really wanted to kill someone a few times, and I can certainly understand how he felt when her started trashing the computers but at no point did he kill one of his own men.
That alone made him so fucking original in SW it's not even fucking funny.
>>44357991
When has anyone used the force like that in a lightsaber fight though?
The closest I can think of would be the throwing shit it the prequels, but even then it wasn't very effective
>>44357991
I wouldn't be surprised that catastrophic levels of pain and injury make concentrating on cool powers difficult. They were as subtle as a sledgehammer that they had to massively damage, demoralize, and stun him before he could be fought by the protagonists, and even then it was close as fuck.
>>44357579
Luke fought Vader, trained jedi turned sith. Master of the force with years of experience.
Ray fought basically an edgy teenager.
See the difference?
I can't wait for lightsaber polearm for Ray.
>>44358041
That edgy teenager was demonstrated to be very skilled with the force and master of an order of his own. Oh, and he had destroyed the new Jedi.
>>44356553
Be honest: is it good?
>>44358068
>and master of an order of his own
To be fair, we know absolutely nothing about the Knights of Ren. They could just be a group of useless sycophants Snoke put Kylo in charge of just to big his ego up.
>>44356350
>Teen Vader fanboy Snape-nosed
still better than evil guys from episodes I,II & III
>>44357904
Wasn't Revan in the animated series on Disney Channel?
>>44358068
I was sure that snoke killed the new order.
Knights of Ren might be as retarded as him.
Although I see potential in his character for future movies.
>>44358083
Well yes, its possible that Kylo was the one who wiped out the new Jedi order and chased Luke into hiding while the other Knights of Ren stood around and posed menacingly but did nothing, if you take the most retarded and contrarian interpretation possible.
>>44357904
>>44357944
The visual guide to Episode VII said Ren modeled his attire and lightsaber design after a Force User from the Great Scourge of Malachor.
So yeah, at least some of KOTOR will be making it into the new canon.
>>44357884
The Starkiller base was when I lost all hope for the new movies being original. Specifically when they showed it next to the Death Star and I was surprised no one referred to it as "Death Star II: Electric Boogaloo".
What I don't understand is how anyone in-universe could justify building another Death Star-like weapon when the previous Death Stars had such a poor track record. Both took a mind-boggling amount of time and money to build to the point that it bankrupted entire systems, and yet the kill count of the Death Stars throughout the entire OT was 1: Alderaan. Given that this type of planetkiller weapon was such a huge waste of resources, represents a giant target of strategic value, and the minute you fire it once the rest of the galaxy will be up your ass faster than bees in a beehive, what point is there in making them?
I realize that the two Death Stars were primarily crippled by external circumstances (the infamous vent in IV and not being finished in VI), but how in the world do you go to your boss and say "Hey, you know those really expensive weapons that never worked? Lets build another one, but bigger."
>>44358326
For starters, this one obliterated the whole fucking Republic in one go. Without even being in the same solar system.
>Both took a mind-boggling amount of time and money to build to the point that it bankrupted entire systems,
If it wasn't for Phasma being a dumb traitor bitch it would have been invincible.
This movie is notable in that the bad guys win about 1/2 way through the movie and only are stopped from destroying the last pitiful dregs at the eleventh hour, but the Resistance fleet is also obliterated in the process.
For reference, imagine if Russia or whoever obliterated all NATO countries in the world immediately, and was stopped only from destroying one aircraft carrier, and almost all its aircraft in question were destroyed in the process.
Speaking of the Starkiller Base, there's something that's been bugging me about the movie that nobody mentioned. I might just be an idiot and reading into it wrong, though - someone tell me if I am.
The basic gist of Grand Moff Tarkin 2.0's Nazi-ish speech was "The Republic is corrupt because they secretly help The Resistance! We must kill The Republic!"
Shouldn't it be the other way around? Isn't the First Order's main goal to overturn The Republic, and that's why The Resistance is trying to stop them - not the other way around? Their priorities seem a little unsorted.
It felt like Sylvester saying that he had to catch Tweety in order to kill Spike the Guarddog.
>>44356350
Because he stops being a proper bbeg the moment he takes his helmet off. From that point onwards, he stops being a menacing apprentice of the dark side. His struggles makes him more humane but there is no conviction in his actions. The more you know about him, the more you lose any sense of fear and admiration for him, as It is replaced by pity.
If all you think about you bbeg is pity, then he is a shitty bbeg. You don't fear him becuase you know he's just
>a beta male poser who wanted to be a war hero as everyone in his family
Especially when he gets shot by a shot coming from his range of vision, gets hit by a guy who got beaten by a stormtrooper and forgets how to do the most basic combat shit in a series of spectacular failures.
A can make an annoying anti-hero with this, not a proper evil character. I can make a PC based on him but he will come off as trope subversion and a comic relief.
tl;dr
He's a midboss tier character.
>>44358370
It didn't destroy the entire republic. It destroyed the capital, the fleet, the senate, and most of the rest of that system. However, the capital was moved anyways so lots of cool planets like Coruscant are fine.
I think a much better comparison would be to say it was pearl harbor and nuking DC at the same time.
>>44356500
Finn and Poe are the best OTP ever made though.
>>44358378
>"The Republic is corrupt because they secretly help The Resistance! We must kill The Republic!"
Seems logical to me, by viciously pragmatic space nazi standards.
"Some guys dare to fund an insurgency within our borders? Okay, lets retaliate by killing absolutely every last man, woman, and child on their planets and turning their worlds into charred rubble. That'll teach them not to mess with us."
>>44358370
>imagine if Russia or whoever obliterated all NATO countries in the world immediately, and was stopped only from destroying one aircraft carrier, and almost all its aircraft in question were destroyed in the process.
I never realized I wanted Top Gun 2 until now.
>>44356350
Simple. He never will be like Darth Vader, its absolutely impossible to replace it.
>>44358404
>It didn't destroy the entire republic.
He said it was the last day of the Republic, and we really don't know where the fuck the other six lazors were going.
We never got much of a movie-canon explanation of how big the Galactic Empire was, but we did get a movie-canon explanation of how the New Republic gave up practically all its military power, not to mention that the First Order is just one Imperial Remnant faction of many, and that the New Republic had to make peace with the Imperial Remnants.
There will probably be worlds still loyal to the general idea of the New Republic but the faction itself is probably gone in any meaningful sense.
>>44358420
That would be totally logical if the First Order existed as a distinct political entity that was fine with co-existing with the Republic.
But they aren't. The only reason the First Order was made in the first place was because everyone in there hated the Republic for some reason or another and wanted them out. They were formed with the explicit goal of destroying the Republic.
This isn't like Space Nazis dealing with Space Britain. This is like Space Nazis dealing with the Space Weimar Republic, and destroying the Space Weimar Republic because Space Paul von Hindenburg was trying to stop them from destorying it.
>>44358457
I'd assumed the other shots took out the other planets in the system, since they say the Hosnian system was destroyed.
>>44357748
i've always really hated that they keep trying to incorporate the same stupid teams in every stage of the starwards time line.
>>44358500
>That would be totally logical if the First Order existed as a distinct political entity that was fine with co-existing with the Republic.
I thought the point is that they don't give a shit. They give fewer fucks than the Galactic Empire, which at least had to vaguely pretend it was the legitimate government and to do government stuff that isn't just terrorizing people, presumably. They don't claim to be the Empire, or in charge, they just fucking wipe out the enemy's planets.
>They were formed with the explicit goal of destroying the Republic.
And so they did. Why wouldn't they? What's the problem? They lost Starkiller Base, but the Supreme Leader didn't seem too bothered.
Now all that's left to ensure total victory is to stamp out the final gasp of the Resistance and to exterminate the last two Jedi in the galaxy.
>>44358516
>>44357748
Although the acting was wooden as fuck on behalf of the Old Republic, the CIS scum were conceptually one of the most intriguing Star Wars factions around in my opinion, a sort of proto rebel alliance with dark siders. Too bad they were made to fail.
>>44358552
Yeah, I mean, it's good for them and it's totally logical that they nuked The Republic. The flow of events works out well, and from a plot perspective, it makes sense. It's just the dialogue.
The speech beforehand should have been something like "They're weak and spineless and can't manage a galaxy, let's kill them", not "They help the Resistance, let's kill them"
They way Tarkin Jr. phrases it, he makes it sound like killing The Resistance is the main goal of the First Order. Going off the analogy that someone else made, it would be like Russia saying "The people on this NATO aircraft carrier are trying to destroy us. Let's blow up NATO. When that's over, we can focus on what really matters - stopping that aircraft carrier!"
>>44358604
>, not "They help the Resistance, let's kill them"
Oh, I got confused and thought your perspective was the opposite.
I figured the First Order was a somewhat normal Imperial Remnant until they realized the Resistance that was stressing them out was a New Republic proxy, and so they went totally nuts and decided to ally with the Knights of Ren and work with planet killing tech and so forth. Their original goal may have been to destroy the New Republic, but my interpretation was that, yeah, they destroyed the Republic to prevent them from helping a group they surely view as Al Qaida.
>>44358604
>Let's blow up NATO. When that's over, we can focus on what really matters - stopping that aircraft carrier!"
Also this sounds like a decent premise for a piece of fiction
>>44358662
Ah, K. So it mostly just sums up to interpretation of their earlier goals and how peaceful they were with the Republic beforehand.
In that case, I can accept that my perspective might be a bit off from what the writers intended.
>>44357973
I swear he looks like someone from Comicon that won a prize to be in a Star Wars movie or was stung by a lot of bees before filming and they didn't have enough time to let him heal up.
That or they wanted the guy who played John Snow but he bailed at least second and had to make do with a stunt actor.
>>44358796
I assumed they wanted a Snapey looking dude.
>>44358806
>>44358796
If they had let him have facial hair he'd have been 509% better. Cause Adam Driver with facial hair is far more intimidating looking than without, it balances his face away from that hawk nose.
>>44358843
Could be cool if they give him evil facial hair in the next one, to signify how he's come of age.
>>44356500
Kylo Ren was easily the worst part of that movie though
>>44358796
Frankly, I think they should have made him cruelly handsome, like a young SS commander. He looked, well, awful.
>>44358860
If it's because he was basically a punk ass little bitch... that's kind of the whole point. Not Vader 2.0
I don't have anything against Adam Driver, but he doesn't look the part. Kylo was badly mishandled. When you do the big reveal of the villain and people laugh, you fucked up bad.
>tfw you literally r8 the movie an 8 and aren't even memeing
>>44358915
>The whole point was to have a shitty villain.
I can accept that as a fact, but not as a good idea.
>>44358796
>>44358843
It's the fucking "haircut" that does it for me. I see that same hair everywhere at conventions I regularly attend, and my local gaming store. I agree: Either facial hair would have helped, or a damn haircut with no facial hair.
That said: Somebody mentioned that Kylo Ren's look was probably intentionally that way to make a statement about certain Star Wars fanboys...
>Really guys, why are you not basing a evil character on him?
My players are still traumatized by the fact he killed Han Solo through deception, and I don't want a miscast joke villain, who's a fanboy of a better villain, when I can have the real thing.
>>44356500
>not based Finn
>>44358987
>through deception
That was the most obvious play ever, though. Han didn't see it because he didn't want to, but nobody in the audience should have been shocked.
>>44359005
He didn't even need deception to kill an old fart when he's unarmed and not a Force-sensitive.
Worst way to see your childhood hero go.
>>44359039
He needed to do it like that because of what it meant, though. Ren wasn't ready to move on, but things were escalating, and he had to put his past aside.
>>44359005
I thought he was genuinely conflicted, and wasn't sure what he was about to do. Like, it's set up to be all symbolic and shit. It's no coincidence that the darkening of the sky is when he stabs Han.
I think the set-up to the scene was great, but there's some really awful dialogue in that one. Like when Ren says "I'm conflicted, torn between light and darkness." Shit, man - People don't say that kind of thing! Really, they should've done it more as a "Come *home*, son. We still love you." thing,
While Ren is indeed a shitty villain, he's still leagues above Phasma.
Why did they made so much promo material for someone who barely shows up in the movie, has a handful of lines, and then jobs so hard she fucks over an entire planet? Why did they try to paint her as a strong female character outside the movie and then make her a useless piece of shit? Why wasn't she tonfa stormtrooper, since that motherfucker had more energy and personality than she ever had?
>>44359083
Actually, you know, she should have been the tonfa trooper. Like, if they want to play her up as a strong womyn, let her do something. We all know stronk womyn are very good at beating up men, right? Give her a unique weapon and let her beat the piss out of Finn.
>>44359079
Yeah, Ren's dialogue was pretty bad. If it was up to me, I would have played up important philosophical distinctions between the Light and Dark side instead of just making it a Good and Evil thing, though. Something about how they both have their downsides and that picking one over the other doesn't make you a bad person. Then you could get an ironically mirrored redemption arc. Everything he said buried my dreams further in the ground.
>>44359083
>Why did they made so much promo material for someone who barely shows up in the movie, has a handful of lines, and then jobs so hard she fucks over an entire planet?
More SJW brownie points.
>>44358997
>liking Finn Bergdahl
no
>>44359130
Racist.
>>44358851
>>44358843
Definitely. If he gets a Riker beard, he'll be much more intimidating, and it's both a good way to show a much more "evil" character AND the passage of time. Rey gets trained, Ren grows a beard.
OP, half of my characters are chip on their shoulder/something to prove types or "gotta live up to the hype" types.
>>44359112
That... actually would have been better. AND it would have let the shiny anti-blaster (I assume) armor play into it. AND would have made the "TRAITOR" line have more weight.
>>44359079
>people don't say that
But Ren does, because he's a total edgemaster. That's the point! I loved his cheesy lines, because he's the Distant Spacepast version of the kid whose favorite character is Sephiroth.
>>44359079
>awful dialogue
It's a staple of the series, not unlike horrible parenting.
Cue mandatory Harrison Ford quote:
>George, you can type this shit, but you can't say it!
>>44356350
Movie is just a rehash of the originals.
Shit tier.
Ren is an edgy teen.
>>44359213
>GUARDS! GUAAARDS!!!
*guards quietly GTFO*
>>44359264
That was a hilarious scene.
>>44358391
Agreed with 100%. Kylo Ren is an angsty teen who made some bad decisions and fell in with some bad folks. He's like one of those Wild West goons who thinks that having a gun makes him a badass, so he runs off and joins a gang of outlaws to prove how crazy and dangerous he is. Except even he can't take himself seriously, deep down he's just a scared little shit that wants to go home, so he psyches himself up and shoots his dad just to burn that bridge because he's too weak to go on otherwise.
Kylo literally had to cut off all his options, permanently, because he was too much of a pussy to actually commit to being a Sith. He's shit with a lightsaber and too stupid to use the Force when he gets cornered in a serious fight. Seriously, what kind of an idiot doesn't just force choke the shit out of Finn the instant his opponent turns on his lightsaber?
>>44357642
I mean they said she's more powerful than she realizes. Maybe she's the reincarnation of Obi-Wan or something?
>>44356598
>A inexperienced, wounded force user wasn't a walking god among mortals during a fight.
I'm okay with that.
>>44359500
He wasn't anything but shit.
He should have beat them based on his physical build alone, let alone his force powers and training.
Kylo is basically Young Anakin done well, so I guess that's why he works
Do we have any official statement regarding what is canon and what is not? Everything on the comics is just no longer real?
>>44359549
>Kylo is basically Young Anakin done well
Not at all.
>>44359556
All movies, Clone Wars cartoon, and anything new made post-Disney buyout is canon.
>>44359521
Agreed, but I don't agree that he should have one-shotted them with miniscule effort.
Ren likely didn't use his Force-powers out of arrogance, which is common trait with dark side users. Not using powers. Stupidity-level arrogance is so common among dark side users that its noticeable when one of them isn't
The Rev vs Finn fight went as I think a force user and skilled non-force user should be. You can get lucky and wound him, but overall its a losing battle unless you play extra dirty or get lucky. Finn has some melee fighting under his belt as a Stormtrooper, but he states that prefers blasters.
My issue with Rei is that she goes from "what's the Force?" to being better at it than a trained user.
VII is a pretty meh movie in my opinion. Could have been fine, but the fact that Finn and Rey uses a lightsaber without the training and somehow doesn't kill themselves with it just ruins it for me.
>>44359627
Anyone wondering if their old favourite is still canon may want to start looking into the Star Wars games disney's licensed - X-Wing, Armada, and Imperial Assault. They've had a lot of EU characters in them, and as long as they're in those officially licensed games, they're still canon.
>>44356598
Isn't he still not finished his basic training? I coulda sworn Smoak heavily implied as such, as did the shitty nature of his saber
>>44359627
That's simplified, but mostly correct with the addition that if something post Disney buyout mentions or talks about pre Disney EU that stuff is good too. Cause a bunch of the post Disney writers have things in the EU they like, so they reaffirm it and boom, it's now new canon: czerka, Malachor (and most likely other Old Republic stuff) and the TIE/d among other stuff.
Disney wiped canon clean so the good stuff could be saved by reaffirmation.
>>44359687
Yeah, Snoke outright said 'bring him to me to finish his training'. Ren decided to build a saber because he wanted a saber, probably killed the other trainees because he didn't want competition, and then realized Luke didn't want to train him anymore so left the training grounds. When people started asking him how it went, how it feels to be a force user, he probably copied Finn's "Totally A Resistance Soldier" schtick, and Snoke is the only one who knows better.
>>44357219
Anon, there's a conversion chart within the rule book for autists like you who hate new and interesting things. Maybe do even a little research before sperging out?
>>44356655
I actually really liked that fight. As fun as some of the crazy prequel fights looked the first time, I caught myself noticing how simple it was. Just two angry guys having a brawl in the woods. No fancy flips or maneuvers. Nothing but all the characters just fighting out of pain and hate. It was solid.
>>44356350
As frustrated as I am that the new Vader was a little bitch, that the new Luke is either someone important's kid OR her powers come from nowhere in no time flat, and the fact that the new Han is the only character with believable development, there are two things that bug me above all else.
First: how did Gwendoline Christie survive to have a role in Episode VIII? Second: where the hell is Ahsoka and why is she not a major character?
>>44356350
I had a terrifying realization watching episode VII the second time.
Ren is the force powered version of a school shooter.
>>44359763
>First: how did Gwendoline Christie survive to have a role in Episode VIII?
They decided to throw her in the trash before killing her for some reason.
>Second: where the hell is Ahsoka and why is she not a major character?
Probably dead.
>>44359794
He does look remarkably like the tall one of the Columbine shitheads.
>>44359711
Thought so. Im guessing he hadn't really done a satisfactory ''sacrifice'' until then.
Gotta say, I liked how he used his pain to feed his connection to the darkside. Was it emo? Yes. Is it smart considering the established rules for the Darkside? Very much so.
I reckon the kid has potential, even if hes an utter twat as of yet
>>44359794
>watching episode VII the second time.
>>44359822
Hey never turn down a free trip to the movies.
>>44356647
We don't actually know this. We just know he betrayed the order and then they died. Inviting the first order an spoke in and stabbing someone in the back is a thing.
>>44359822
Dont you know you need to watch it 3 times to really understand it?
Once to get your initial reaction. Once to spot references, cameos and so forth. Once to read the Rhythm and determine which prior episode its most like
>>44356595
He's not hating it. The movie wasn't that great since it was just a soft reboot of a new hope. It has some good character moments, some good action scenes. But overall it's a 7/10 at most.
>>44356735
Who says he's strong in the force? He's half trained, not strong. Snoke even confirms he only partially trained at the end- which is a Sith thing, to not teach everything. An he was still an equivalent of a padawan when he betrayed Luke, afaik. An who has he been fighting? Non force users for the most part.
>>44359840
that's what cam rips are for.
The low quality lets you focus on the things like story and characterization.
I felt all the character stuff was far too rushed. The scene where Poe and Finn have their character building moment in the tie fighter should have been the whole scene, with getting shot down at the end. It didn't need to be an action scene, we just had one less than 5 minutes before that.
>>44359811
I figured "trash compactor" sounded a lot like "refrigerator". And I hope Ahsoka's not dead for the rest of this trilogy. I need my snark if I'm gonna slog through the next two films. I need my snips.
>>44359859
>Who says he's strong in the force?
He has more abilities than luke displayed in Return of the Jedi?
Rey is stronger than anakin ever was though. She must be half force or all force or something.
>>44359859
He can rip thoughts out of someone's head and stop a blaster bolt in midair.
He's not at Starkiller tier, but he's no slouch.
>>44359866
Tbh, Im inclined to agree but it feels like they were going for a very much ''Action Movie'' approach.
At the end of the day, it could have been waaaay worse.
Seriously though, whats up with Solo waiting that fucking long to try out the fucking Bowcaster?
>>44359881
I thought it was pretty stupid that he only used it once to stop a blaster bolt and that the bolt hung there until he left instead of just fizzing out.
>>44359881
Hes got raw power but little talent Id say. Rey is sorta the opposite. Not much raw power but ass-tons of talent.
In boxing terms, hes the beefy but imprecise guy, shes the sniper with weak arms.
>>44359895
Im guessing the main purpose of that was intimidation. After all, that was the only person attacking him at that point, why not use the chance to affirm his power and scariness?
>Kylo Ren
Hastily characterized numbnuts whose filial relationships were both unnecessary and forced.
>Finn
The only good character in the entire film. He has a complete character arc and the strongest, most consistent characterization. Clearly meant to be the protagonist of the film, before...
>Rey
The Specialist Snowflake in the galaxy tries to convince the audience that she's not a damsel in distress by lecturing Han Solo about his own fucking ship and learning the Force in about three minutes. Then she ends up being captured anyway, prompting a completely useless rescue attempt by Finn and Solo because she's such a STRONG FEMALE CHARACTER she escapes without help from any silly boys. Easily the worst character in the whole film, shit practical effects notwithstanding.
Seriously, fuck JJ. The scene where a hastily-constructed vulture doll slams its plastic beak against a dead droid was an insult to whatever canon purity Disney was trying to conserve.
Easily the worst film of 2015.
>>44359894
>Tbh, Im inclined to agree but it feels like they were going for a very much ''Action Movie'' approach.
Well yeah that's what general audiences want. They'd never have the attention span to watch a movie with the pacing of Ran or Sanjuro.
>Seriously though, whats up with Solo waiting that fucking long to try out the fucking Bowcaster?
They tried their best to hold the audiences hand in showing how strong it was and telling us how strong it was so we'd know why it gimped Kylo BEN! in the last fight. Apparently they didn't try hard enough because a lot of people were confused by his chest thumping and losing.
What bothered me about the Bowcaster is that i distinctly remember them always having a green blast, not a red one.
>>44359907
>Im guessing the main purpose of that was intimidation. After all, that was the only person attacking him at that point, why not use the chance to affirm his power and scariness?
They took the piss out of the intimidation when poe dameron acted like peter quill with that groan inducing line of his. "do i talk first or do you talk first i should be more scared right now but we gotta keep this light hearted for the kiddies"
>>44356500
Tell me I am not the only one severly bothered by how she just magically realized she was a jedi and somehow taught herself the tricks in a mater of an hour at most
Like the power might be there, but you don't know how to tap it without training
>>44357152
Well Anakin assumedly killed quite a few Jedi who were more than likely protecting the younglings.
>>44359936
I still thought it was cool. We've seen Jedi slapping bolts out of the air and even grinding them with their hands (Vader), but I think this is the first time anyone's just frozen shit like that.
>>44359895
Force Power Creep again rears its ugly head. Why bother with lightsabers if you can stop blaster bolts with the Force? It was a cheap visual thrill that again undermines Star Wars' already perilous grasp on consistency.
>>44359929
What bothers me is that Han apparently not once in all the years he worked with Chewie tried it out. I mean, seriously? Not even out of curiosity?
And aren't the Bowcasters that a Wookie uses (that is, the ones not made for non-wookies) meant to be like too heavy to lift and aim.
>>44359936
I was talking more about from Rens point of view. For us, it was just meant to be visually appealing. Pretty lights and all that.
>>44359949
I actually had that discussion with a friend afterwards. Thing is, without EU we dont really know just how tough what she did is. I mean, EU is what established it as high level shit. For all we know, Disney might have a bullshit explanation.
Something about prior indoctrination making you more susceptible. I could see them pulling that.
>>44356532
I think it's less that he could never be like Vader and more that he isn't. But he will ruin himself even more than he already has to do it.
And he's already a terrible person.
Although, he is different because he'll be clawing his way up to be at the level Anakin descended to.
Think about that: what he aspires to is the way a formerly great man was after he fell.
He's probably BENEATH that.
>>44359972
Not really. He managed to stop 1 bolt. 1. If he was hit with a volley, he probably couldn't have done that or the focus needed would have been tough as balls.
>>44359957
It just doesn't make any sense.
It would have been cool if he used it just once to freeze a person and the bolt, turn the bolt around, and then unfreeze it.
Of all the stuff the force can do, pausing momentum is one the most nonsensical.
>>44359927
Don't forget Po, who you think is an important character until he straight up vanishes for half the movie and then suddenly comes back to shoot stuff in an X-Wing.
The movie has so many bizarre choices like this that I wonder if a lot had to be cut to make it a certain length or if there was a different original director and Abrams came in half way.The first half is so different from the second that something had to happen.
>>44359995
>or if there was a different original director and Abrams came in half way
I'm pretty sure that's what happened, actually.
>>44359995
Poe was supposed to die, but they brought him back because he was really cool. Yeah, it's bullshit.
>>44359974
Thats still retarded
It takes a deeper understanding of the force, inner control and a lot of practice to wield it the way she did.
She could have had the power, but its nothing without control
>>44359949
I think her instant skills probably have something to do with the flashback and/or the visions when she touched the lightsaber
Whether that's imprinted knowledge, memories that have been blocked, some force guidance, or any other thing, I don't think she just knew jedi skills right then and there on her own
>>44360013
Oh its retarded, dont get me wrong. But there was always gonna be fuckery once they decided to wipe EU.
Its just now we dont know how bad it was. Was it a bit above her level? Did she somehow pull of a Jedi Master lvel technique? We can't fucking say
>>44359949
When she's trying to mind trick the guard in her cell, and he finally straightens up and repeats after her, I genuinely thought he would hold it for a second and then drop back into his slouch and laugh at her before going back to the door. I was so dissapointed when it actually worked. Luke couldn't pull that shot off until his reappearance in Return, and it was a sign of his growth as a jedi that he even tried, never mind it not working on Jabba.
>>44359957
>We've seen Jedi slapping bolts out of the air and even grinding them with their hands (Vader), but I think this is the first time anyone's just frozen shit like that.
>>44359995
I have to give credit to whoever wrote the opening scenes. You couldn't ask for better characterization. Seriously, I was so excited for this movie in the first hour.
We see Finn's struggle, his fear and self-loathing, and that wonderful moment when his comrade leaves a bloody handprint on his helmet.
Then we see Rey, who puts on a starfighter helmet and gazes wistfully at a ship leaving the planet, all after an equally wonderful moment when she sees an old woman sitting across from her and sees herself.
The setup was brilliant and it went nowhere. That's the tragedy.
>>44360102
The pacing was much too fast. I would have changed a lot of it. But people probably would have considered it too boring.
I don't know, do audiences just have ADHD? Would they be able to watch a movie like Ran in this day and age?
>>44359995
I felt like we missed an intro scene with him - as it was I thought "the resistance's best pilot" was just killed off to emphasise the seriousness of the situation and how fucked Finn was.
I thought that was an okay move, a bit lame, but it'd do the job, and then he turns out to be alive.
If he'd had more build up I'd have expected that, but he comes back to round out the trio basically out of nowhere - I guess that was kind of the point, that you wouldn't suspect it, but before that he wasn't really developed enough for me to care, it was more "oh, he's still alive I guess, huh"
>>44360120
The Third Death Star was clearly introduced later in production. The story was set up in such a way as to preclude gigantic death machines, what with the search for Luke and the introduction of a new Imperial order that actually cares about its underlings. And no, audiences do not have ADHD, studios are convinced audiences have ADHD. Disney is not looking for a story, they're looking for a profitable marketing machine. It's why we're getting an X-Wing show, which will likely end up being better written than the films due to the glut of writing talent in Hollywood. It's all transferring to television and digital media because of lower production costs and much quicker turnaround as far as profit goes.
It's also much easier to write a self-contained thirty to forty-five minute television show than it is a two hour film. In the end, laziness and greed will always win out. Star Wars will become safe and marketable, with any originality or story potential completely driven out of it. There were a lot of voices praising the decision to excise the EU, which, regardless of your opinion, was a font of original story ideas and fan content. Now we'll have to contend with lukewarm, safety-padded Star Wars forever.
>>44360197
>And no, audiences do not have ADHD, studios are convinced audiences have ADHD.
We can blame studios til the cows come home but audience approval is what broke records.
>>44360197
Oh, and we of course just HAD to have a scene where we compare the original Death Star to the Starkiller Base. As if something being bigger makes it more interesting.
Ask yourself one question: what was more shocking? The destruction of Alderaan in A New Hope or the destruction of an entire star system in The Force Awakens? The original Death Star only blew up one planet, but the scene was constructed around Leia's reaction to it.
In the new movie everyone just kind of stands there and accepts it. There's no shock or anger or even fear. Han Solo looks at the sky like he's trying to remember if he left something in the Millennium Falcon. Then we see the Starkiller Base sucking up an entire star to power itself, and we think, "Hey, sucking up a whole star is way more interesting than blowing up a planet."
But because we're tied to the original trilogy by fanboys and a studio that thinks audiences are babies, we have to have a Death Star that's much bigger and better than the one before.
>>44360268
Yep that's star wars for you.
We could have better if audiences demanded more.
The world is exactly as people want it to be.
>>44360238
I thought it was box office returns? Not the same thing.
>>44360286
Care to explain your reasoning?
>>44360333
Box office returns isn't equivalent to audience approval. If you buy a ticket, that money goes to the studio whether you like the film or not. It's why horrible summer blockbusters like Transformers 3 can still turn a profit while being universally panned. For decades now movies have been little more than box office hype machines, with trailers teasing more and more of the story and more of the focus being audience reaction and fanboy appeasement rather than storytelling. The goal of most movies these days is to pay for the film in one or two weekends before the hype runs out. It's just the way things are.
>>44360268
I thought it was stupid that they compared the size of the machines, but it makes sense in context, because that's your first train of thought if you're a Resistance member.
>It's another Death Star.
But they got lasers right this time, at least until they fucking split.
It would have been a much more powerful scene had that not happened in A New Hope, because nobody would have seen a weapon of that scale coming. The tsarget planets' reactions as the whole sky turns red would have been moving.
But as you said, a rehash always suffers from 'it's been done' syndrome.
>>44360372
What prevents an audience member from getting a refund if they don't like it half way through?
What statistic are you comparing it with?
Because it sounds like you're desperate to believe that people aren't stupid.
>>44360380
It's the third time we've seen the trench run in movies. It's a rehash(TFA) of a rehash(ROTJ) of a rehash(A New Hope) of an original concept(The Dambusters).
>>44357991
I may be mistaken, but I could have sworn that Snoke instructed Ren to bring Rey back alive. So even if he could go all out, why would he? It would risk disappointing his precious new master.
>>44360333
Not him but Box Office returns is ''how many people went to see it'' not ''how many of those people liked it''
>>44360395
The fact that a lot of places dont offer refunds? Or if they do its in the first quarter of the movie? Or that people dont know their rights as consumers by and large? Or that a lot of fans probably sat there throughout the whole movie hoping it'd pull up and it didn't so they were left unsatisfied?
I have no statistics for either but what the dude is presenting is pretty logical. Or at least realistic
>>44360428
>The fact that a lot of places dont offer refunds?
Where? I've never been to one that doesn't. Most will even let you get a refund if you saw the whole movie.
>Not him but Box Office returns is ''how many people went to see it'' not ''how many of those people liked it''
And what evidence do we have otherwise? Our worthless opinions?
>Or that people dont know their rights as consumers by and large?
Oh come off it.
>I have no statistics for either but what the dude is presenting is pretty logical. Or at least realistic
It's very easy to agree with people you agree with. But we need facts to be certain.
>>44360380
It doesn't make sense in context. What reason would the Resistance have to compare a completely different weapon with the Death Star? It isn't as though they were similar in terms of scale or power. It was only there to impress on the audience that "This is totally different from the Death Star!"
>>44360417
Don't forget Tatooine, Hoth, and Yavin IV.
>>44360476
>Don't forget Tatooine, Hoth, and Yavin IV.
The point i was making was that the trench run has always been a rehash in star wars since it's just a shot-for-shot remake of the end scenes of The Dambusters.
>>44360470
Ok. Where are your "facts" most audiences are stupid? All I'm saying is the focus of big Hollywood studios has transferred from film to other mediums. The film is largely seen as a throwaway, because fanboys and dedicated hype marketing will almost ensure a return in the first couple of weekends. I'm still confused with what you're saying. Am I "stupid" for hoping a film will be good?
>>44360519
I know. The point I was making was the settings in the new film were direct rehashes of Tatooine, Hoth, and Yavin IV.
>>44360476
>It doesn't make sense in context. What reason would the Resistance have to compare a completely different weapon with the Death Star? It isn't as though they were similar in terms of scale or power. It was only there to impress on the audience that "This is totally different from the Death Star!"
Very little of the movie makes sense when you think about it.
I became bothered by the very first scenes in the movie where we see a bunch of stormtroopers in armor that has clearly never been used in combat before, considering how iPod shiny and fresh they looked. Finn was literally the only one with a single mark on him.
>>44360470
We do need facts to be certain but you really seem to over estimate most people. Most people don't know their rights as consumers. A lot of people think they do but they know the rights of the American consumer from too much American TV.
And... dude, its in the name. ''Box Office Returns'' is the term for the monetary returns that the movie gets at Box Office
And honestly, lack of refunds is common in a lot of places. In Ireland, they'll basically tell ya ''we could've sold that seat to someone else. Now we can't. You got what you paid for. If you dont like it, tough shit.''
>>44360470
>Where? I've never been to one that doesn't. Most will even let you get a refund if you saw the whole movie.
I have never seen a theater allow refunds outside of technical problems with the projector.
>>44360524
>Ok. Where are your "facts" most audiences are stupid?
Ticket Pre-sale figures would be one metric. What kind of idiot buys a commercial product sight unseen? The rise in popularity in style over substance movies as measured by popular opinion trackers like rotten tomatoes and imdb.
>Am I "stupid" for hoping a film will be good?
Stupid? No. Naive? Possibly. What possible reason would they have for putting effort into a script when by all metrics it won't increase sales? Jurassic World made how much money? Guardians of the Galaxy made how much money? Interstellar made how much money? These are just opinions, however.
>>44360542
Obviously. It goes without saying.
>>44360548
At least that had a storytelling impact. The point wasn't that the stormtroopers looked clean, it was that they all looked the same. Then we get this genuinely shocking moment when a stormtrooper gets humanized, struggles for life, and leaves a bloody handprint on his comrade's face. That was the first time in Star Wars cinematic history we saw a stormtrooper as more than a disposable villain. It worked.
Maybe now that the old EU is officially trashed, the new Disney EU they can actually have some actual fucking moral ambiguity or decent worldbuilding, now that George Lucas can't jew them to death for trying anything new/good
>>44360605
So now we're back to opinions when you just asked me for facts. I'll ask again: where is your evidence most audiences are stupid?
>>44358405
Stop being gay. Friendship exist.
>>44360626
I doubt we'll be seeing new stuff.
Other than tonfa trooper and Ren's lightsaber style I don't think this movie introduced anything Star Wars hasn't seen before.
>>44360626
>George Lucas can't jew them to death for trying anything new/good
He won't have to because they won't try anything new.
>>44360564
>Most people don't know their rights as consumers.
Can you back that up with something more than your personal experience?
>And... dude, its in the name. ''Box Office Returns'' is the term for the monetary returns that the movie gets at Box Office
Which is an indication of how many people wanted to see the movie.
>And honestly, lack of refunds is common in a lot of places. In Ireland, they'll basically tell ya ''we could've sold that seat to someone else. Now we can't. You got what you paid for. If you dont like it, tough shit.''
So then all we can possibly go on are public review sites like rotten tomatoes.
A fucking Mad Max movie got the highest reviews, and it's just a glorified car chase movie.
91% liked TFA. 93% liked the martian. 93% liked mission impossible. 90% liked inside out (adults, btw) 79% liked Jurassic World.
I don't think it's hollywood's fault that people like simplistic movies with banal plots. I think that's just humanity.
>>44360636
The bell curve alone will tell you that, statistically, most people are pretty average.
How do you define stupid?
>>44360668
I aint arguing people aint stupid. But Box Office Returns are seperate from consumer satisfaction. The amount of people that went in wanting to see the movie does not necessarily mirror the amount that were happy with the movie they saw.
>>44360691
Uh, how do YOU define stupid? You're the one claiming most audiences are stupid, you don't get to put the burden of proof on someone else.
>>44360706
Don't pull a reddit fallacy on me. Just answer the question so i can make my answer palatable to you.
>>44360704
Does the rotten tomatoes userscore reflect a portion of the public and can we infer the rest from it?
>>44359112
DID YOU SAY
TONFA TROOPER?!?!
>>44360759
The fuck are you even on about? You claimed most audiences are stupid. Then you asked me to define what stupid means. The burden of proof lies on the person making the claim.
Jesus, is Plato reddit now? Or is this just an elaborate troll?
>>44360791
>The burden of proof lies on the person making the claim.
If you don't want to act like a human being and instead just want to refuge in your vacuous philosophical statements, then we cannot have a conversation. This isn't debate club.
>>44360766
In my opinion, no. Rotten Tomatoes and other reviewers and such often miss the mark greatly.
I mean, a lot of early reviewers said the Beatles would never get big. Now, you can argue if they were good or not but they got big. You can't really deny that
>>44360791
That's not how burden of proof works. Those are two separate claims. Don't be difficult.
>>44360806
>In my opinion, no. Rotten Tomatoes and other reviewers and such often miss the mark greatly.
I am talking about User Score. Not Reviewer Score.
If not even that. then what do you accept? Anything?
>>44360800
You're the one making the argument! You introduced the claim that audiences are stupid. You're responsible for supporting it. This isn't at all advanced or even overtly philosophical. This is basic argument. If you truly believe most audiences are stupid, you could at least explain why.
>>44360808
I guarantee you it is, and no it isn't.
>>44360843
Then no conversation can be had.
>If you truly believe most audiences are stupid, you could at least explain why.
Not when we don't have a commonly agreed upon definition of the word. I'd just be spinning my wheels.
You win. I cede all further contentions to you and pass my remaining time to the moderator of this public debate.
>>44360880
If you don't want to have a conversation, just say it. Don't pin your frustration on me for asking you to clarify your position.
How can we agree on a definition of a word if you won't provide your own definition? That's all I asked for and now you're taking your ball and going home. It's fine to not want to discuss something but blaming your audience for asking you to justify your claims is just childish. See you around, I guess.
>>44360908
>How can we agree on a definition of a word if you won't provide your own definition? That's all I asked for and now you're taking your ball and going home. It's fine to not want to discuss something but blaming your audience for asking you to justify your claims is just childish. See you around, I guess.
As you said, Don't pin your frustration on me for asking you to clarify your position.
I simply don't want to be caught up in a meaningless diatribe about semantics, yet here we are.
>>44360908
>>44360880
Both of ye are being dipshits. Neither of ye was willing to discuss it freely by the end, ye got too defensive. GG lads. GG.
>>44360947
I can't possibly defend the claim that audiences are stupid if he won't agree on a definition of stupid. Until he does, no matter what i say he can use semantics to worm out of it. That's the purpose of philosophy.
>>44359972
People have been able to do that since the original trilogy, just differently.
Vader blocked several blaster shots with the force when han tried to shoot him on cloud city.
>>44360974
Yeah but the issue here is neither of ye were willing to take the plunge and define it.
Its like a pair of kids at the edge of a pool going ''you go in first'' ''no you go in first'' until they get sick of it and go home. Someone needs to make the initial plunge in order for the discussion to progress.
>>44357735
>Yeah, and blaster shot would cauterize too, wouldn't they?
Wookie bowcasters are slug guns which envelop the slug in plasma. He was bleeding from a bullet wound, not a burn. They're actually a lot scarier than plain blasters.
>>44358132
You might be thinking of Darth Bane's appearance in the Cartoon Network animated series. The newer Cartoon Network one.
And that series is still canon.
>>44356595
Calling shit shit isn't hating, retard.
>>44360548
>>44360609
If I may add to this, Finn said he was from the Sanitation division. My headcanon is that the First Order saw a lightly defended desert planet and decided to bring out the F Team to give them some combat experience.
>>44359627
Dammit Disney!
Still pissed about that Grey Jedi bullshit.
