'RMS 'N 'RMOR THREAD, THIS TIME WE'RE GOING TILL ALL THE FOLDERS ARE EMPTIED!
>>44338918
>>44338948
POST DEM BEAKIE BOYS
>>44338992
>>44339023
>>44339216
>>44339216
"goin' in all sneaky beaky like"
>>44338918
>>44339285
>>44339781
>>44339937
C'mon guys.
Since things are getting pretty Norman in here, this is my sword.
Also Norman war mask, best mask.
>>44340238
Oh good, that wasn't a picture of my cock. Darned phone had me concerned for a sec.
It's about 110cm long. The sword that is.
>>44340238
It can get more Norman.
Question for how 'rms'n 'rmor used to be made:
I'm assuming that in the past, people measured out proportions for alloys by weight, probably using scales and such. I'm also guessing that powdering everything for precision would be impractical. How did they measure out the right amounts to chop off from red hot larger pieces, and how did they measure any additional non-metal stuff like carbon to add?
>>44339781
#yesthismakesyoulookfat
>>44338918
>HIS TIME WE'RE GOING TILL ALL THE FOLDERS ARE EMPTIED!
highly unlikely. We will go until image limit is reached. if we would go until the folders are emptied that would mean I alone would fill more than 300 threads...
>>44340444
I'm not sure they did any of those at all. At least in later times I'm pretty sure the blacksmiths bought the metal from others and worked with it. can't recall for alloy usage in medieval times (then again the classical era was different)
Most of the stuff they did by ear, or to be more precise, by eye, looking at the color of the metal when it was heated and such
>>44340535
Now you understand Hun. This train does not stop until the folders are dry.
>>44340552
>>44340576
>>44339004
I was always wondering, with a getup like this, would one typically wear some kind of plate armor under the coat?
he obviously has the money, but the shape of the torse doesn't suggest that he is wearing anything more then maybe a coat of plates.
why armor all your limbs in plate, and then opt for a cheaper alternative for your torso, that has the highest chance of getting pierced by missiles statistically?
>>44340624
Anon, full breastplates were a late middle ages thing. They didn't have the tech to cast a full breastplate out of a single piece of metal till the late 14th Century, and that only covered the upper torso. Full plate was a 15th Century thing.
>>44340576
Whats he gonna do with that little mace, crack open my boiled egg?
>>44340563
MUH FREE STATE
GLORIOUS LEBERKÄSE
>>44340444
The only common alloys used in the past were bronze and that was "measured" just by smelting ten parts green rocks to one part shiny rocks, the other was pewter and was made by melting solid (and therefore easily weighable) tin lead and silver.
The process of adding carbon to iron is nowhere near as easy as just adding elemental carbon. High quality steel didn't really exist in large amounts until the 1800's and the invention of the blast furnace which is why techniques such as pattern welding and core laminating existed. Iron was made into steel by heating it with coke in a furnace. How this worked was not truly understood, blacksmiths just knew that it worked.
>>44340624
The crusades were completely plate free. Plate armor only came about in the late middle ages, crusades were 12th to 14th century and firmly mid middle ages.
>>44340652
More like crack your head open. Early maces were incredibly tiny, and even the later ones were still pretty small.
>>44340552
what I'm trying to see that even there are the holidays and everything I have time only until January 5. And that's not enough to dump all of my pics
>>44340652
it's a metal weight on the end of a stick. Even a stick can crack your head open, a stick with a metal end will do the job way more easily. No need to be bigger.
A shitton of people think weapons MUST BE HUGE otherwise your dick is tiny or I don't know. In reality, why would I use an unwieldy large or heavy weapon when I can just as well kill someone with a normal one? I mean I do want to kill a lot of people that mean my weapon better not tire me out before I'm finished
>>44340701
>>44340750
>>44340764
>>44340776
>>44340782
>>44340793
>>44340812
I fucking love Henry II's plate. It's simply gorgeous. The definition of perfection.
>>44340857
>>44340871
>you will never fight in the crusades
>>44340989
is that one of those jousting armors where you can't see anything
>>44340671
>The crusades were completely plate free.
The Hussite crusades certainly were not.
>>44341012
the back of it, yes
>>44340899
You should feel blessed since all but the First Crusade were mere faffing about.
>>44341022muh chainmail
Henry had some bitching armour
>>44341012
That's the back side of a part of a jousting set, yes. The helmet is a frogmouth, yes.
>>44341016
Everyone knows that the 3rd Crusade was the only crusade anon. Not that anyone gets that one right either.
>>44340899
That guy probably wouldn't either, seeing his equipment is a mashup of early 12th-late 13th century styles.
Don't tell me that this isn't one of the most terrifying things you have ever seen.
>>44341354
alright, I won't tell you.
>>44340750
Is that guy wearing hardened leather over his mail?
>>44341022
Have to give the Fourth Crusade credit, everyone involved was excommunicated.
>>44341553
>UNVERSUCHT IST UNERFAHREN
>next to Jesus on the cross
This is 100% gang tats.
>>44341073
Does anyone know what this type of helmet is called?
>>44342184
kettle hat. Not the mainstream one but still a kettle hat.
Depending on who you ask people will say it's either a burgundian kettle hat or a chapel de fer or a very early cabbaset.
Which are all kettle hat variants.
And in turn the kettle isthe helmet master race
>>44342295
Thanks. I always thought that type looked sexy, but I didn't know if it was some type of morion or cabasset or something
>>44342347
nah, it's not a morion, morions have a... crest... thingy
>>44342447
Morions are just kettle hats with severe inbreeding.
>>44340726
It's largely due to fantasy art, which often depicts weapons as unreasonably sizeable, which I suspect stems from miniature wargaming, where weapons are often oversized to be more immediately distinguishable.
Personally, while I can appreciate the practical functionality, I think many realistic weapon proportions just make for uninteresting visuals, which is my primarily concern when it comes to fantasy artwork.
>>44344242
What would you call this kind of helmet?
t. someone who doesn't know anything about armour.
>>44344440
Its literally in the picture right next to the helmet. In english. In bold.
>>44340624
It's not an issue of wealth, it's an issue of technology. Simply put the armour pieces that needed the largest single sheet of metal were the last ones to be developed.
The knight in the pic is from the 14th century, which I believe is when plate breastplates first started appearing in significant numbers, so it would have been very common to see mail, brigandines and similar still in use.
>>44344342
>>44340726
World of Warcraft and D&D has taught people that serious weapons needs to be xbawkshuge to make a dent.
Most people don't really get that even a "I use this to murderfuck other knights" type two-handed weapon like a pollaxe or halberd was usually below 7lbs including the haft.
>>44344468
It's in french for helmet, don't be a dick to someone who literally says "halp, I know nothing"
The English term for that type of helmet is "Enclosed Helmet" (not to be confused with Close Helmet) and it's a type of early Great Helm common around the late 1100s to the early 1200s.
>>44338918
My other lance.
>>44344756
Or you could just say Enclosed Helmet, which is what normal people call an early great heaume with face-plate.
I bet you spell mail maille too, you frog-lover.
>>44344701
By late 1100s we are talking really late, as in the 1190s. They really only come into significant use in the 1st decade of the 1200s, eventually being superseeded by more developed great helm styles by the middle of the century.
>>44344756
Enclosed helm is indeed the appropriate english terminology. Moreover the anon literally describes it as an early form of the greathelm.
Not to mention one of the defining features of any great helm is the faceplate, so it is rather pedantic and redundant to nitpick that detail.
>>44344756
>>44344802
If you're gonna get us closer to the image limit at least do so with nice pics, don't clog it up with notebook scribbles just because you want to have an autism competition.
>>44344856
Infact, who wants a quick roundup of 12th century helms, the changing styles with special mention to those who experimented with faceplates prior to the enclosed helm showing up at the tail end of the century?
>>44344856
You sir, are a scholar and a gentleman.
>>44344928
>Akshually, the correct term isshh...
>Ehm, I use it to get better google results, dork.
Come on man, just quit. Also, I dare you to google "early great heaume with face-plate" and compare it to searching for "enclosed helmet".
I guarentee you that yours is just going to give you a bunch of greathelm pics.
>>44344905
>who wants a quick roundup of 12th century helms
me, me, me!
>>44344965
Well how about posting some of his amazing armour instead of his notebook scribbles then? I mean, I'm sure he's amazing but I don't think anyone here is getting much of a kick out of some pics that show that yes, helmets are hollow and worn on the head, and being able to see out of the eye holes is probably smart. We already figured that out.
>>44344905
Sounds good.
He probably wanted to axe you a question.
We will be covering the 12th century, with a little bleedover on either side and concentrating mainly Western Europe. Most of the pictures will be stonework or illustrations from manuscripts but I will add photos from extant artefacts where they exist.
We start off with the conical nasal helm AKA the "Norman Helmet".
This has been in use since the 10th century and continued to be used into the 12th century across Europe.
Although it is ubiquitous in the artwork, only a handful have survived. The one in the picture is often called the Olmutz Helm and is thought to be from what is now the Czech Republic. It probably dates to the 11th century.
The major features are its conical shape which helps deflect blows and the nose guard which gives it the name of a nasal helm. The holes along the bottom is probably where padding was anchored either by rivets or stictching.
By the 12th century most helms (including this one) would be raised out of a single sheet of metal, but the earlier "Spangen" construction continued to be used though it was now much less common.
This was the dominant helm at the start of the 12th century, but as we shall see other styles will soon overtake it. However it seems that the Italians held onto it for longer than most, even till the end of the century.
>>44345376
Possibly as early as the 1120s we see the appearance of a variation on the conical nasal helm.
In this version the peak on the helmet leans forward, reminiscent of a phrygian cap from antiquity. You may know it as the hat worn by Smurfs. For this reason we call them Phrygian Nasal Helms, not to be confused with the greek helmet of the same name (also know as a Thracian Helm) from the Hellenistic Period.
They are pretty much functionaly identical to the preceeding conical nasal helms, it is mainly a change in fashion that sees these helmets adopted.
By the 1140s they had eclipsed the conical nasal as the most popular helmet in England and France. They would continue to be the most dominant helmet until the 1180s.
The picture is from a late 12th century copy of Pope Gregory I's text "Moralia in Job" which is now held in Belgium.
On this picture you can see that a band around the brim of the helmet and the nasal bar are picked out in gold. This method of decorating nasal helms of all styles in the 12th century is quite common and probably represents brass, though gilding is also a possiblity as golden helmets are mentioned in Chrieten de Troyes Arthurian Romances.
>>44345687
During the second half of the 12th century we see a third variation of the nasal helm. The Domed Nasal Helm, which has no peak at all and is instead rounded in form, becomes probably appears in the 1170s, by the 1180s it has displaced the Phrygian Nasal as the most commonly depticted helmet.
The Phrygian Nasal Helm would continue to be worn (especially by the Germans it seems) into the dawn of the 13th century but becomes increasingly uncommon.
The Domed Nasal would continue in use into the middle of the 13th century, where it is depticted in the Macieowski Bible though its use by the Phillistines and other assorted "bad guys" of biblical scenes possibly reflect that it was seen as somewhat antiquated by 1250.
This image is taken from the Winchester Bible, and this scene like many others shows the Domed and Phrygian Nasals coexisting in the 1180s before the Domed style becomes truly dominant.
Ok, those are the major styles of Nasal helm, next we are looking at variants with expanded nasal protection and faceplates.
>>44345882
Expanded Nasals.
This is pretty much much what it says on the tin. Take a Nasal Helm, and instead of simply have a straight nasal bar protecting the face it forms an inverted "T" shape with the arms roughly at mouth level.
These helmets are not especially common, but reflect a trend of the second of half of the 12th century across europe where armourers experimented with modifying nasal helms to give increased facial protection.
This image is taken from a German manuscript from the late 12th century and features two relatively unobtrusive expanded nasal guards.
>>44346146
This is another image from the same manuscript that features a much larger version of an expanded nasal guard.
This type will further develop as we shall see next.
>>44346178
In some cases the nasal guard would further expand and join with the helm to form a visor.
However, these are relatively open compared to "proper" faceplates and you can clearly see much of the face is clearly visible around the eyes.
These would help support the expanded nasal guard and offer increased facial protection without being a constricting as later faceplate styles such as great helms.
This image is a carving from a church is Sanguesa, Spain, possibly dating to about the 1170s but I do not have any solid information other than the figure as a whole stylisticaly dates from the second half of the 12th century.
>>44346324
>>44346178
>>44346146
>>44345882
>>44345687
>All this delicious knowledge.
>>44346324
I will take a quick moment to talk about the helmet in a painting from a church in Spoleto, Italy.
This helm is usually typecast as an "Italo-Norman" helm. However as we have seen the Phrygian style of helm was common across western Europe. The date of 1170 should be taken as a Terminus Post Quem as the scene is of the murder of the English Archbishop Thomas Becket who was killed on the 29th of December 1170. It probably actually dates to the late 1170s/1180s based on the overall style of equipment used.
Further most reconstructions and modern drawings such as >>44339937 have the visor completely conceal the face except for rather small eye holes.
We can see that on the orignal painting, similar to the carving I posted last time, that the helmet is relatively open with wide eye holes. Therefore I would argue that the Spoleto Helm is actually a developed form of the Expanded Nasal helm and pretty much all commercial replicas are wrong.
anyone got any 13th century scots?
>>44346500
Is this accurate?
>>44346500
For an actual example of a late 12th century helmet with a relatively face concealing visor we turn to the Garden of Delights (Hortus Deliciarurm), a German manuscript produced in an Alsace Convent dating to arround 1185.
In the figure on the left we can see a helmet with fluting and a rather bulbous head, quite distinct from other domed nasal forms. This is a 19th copy of the drawing as the original has been lost but a colour version (which is for Ants otherwise I would post it) show that the brim band and visor are picked out in gold. This is similar to the Spoleto helm where the band and visor are also in gold, which would indicate brass construction.
While heavy, solid brass affords great protection and looks rather good. If you are reading this Mark, I'm still waiting for mine so give me a call sometime.
This helmet can be firmly said to belong to the category of helmets that experimented with placing a visor onto an existing nasal helm design, as many other figures in the manuscript are illustrated in nasal versions with the same bulbous and fluted dome.
>>44346777
Here is a colour figure from the same manuscript that shows a nasal version of this helm, again with nose bar and band picked out in gold.
>>44346503
>pig disgusting welding
Haha, I'm looking through my pdfs again, and I realize I got some pretty good Chinese and Japanese books in it. "The Complete Works of Chinese traditional crafts. Armor recovery" stands out as it's apparently a collection of restaurator's reports on reconstructed lamellar armour found in tombs and temples. It's remarkable because it has to-scale drawings of the lames of the individual bits of body armour and helmets and quite often includes lacing instructions as well.
>>44346608
Overall not too bad actually. The helmet has fairly wide eye holed compared to most versions that you see people drawing.
The figure is quite good, I like that it reproduces theat only one hand has a maille mitten as in the original.
I'd nitpick that the shield would be edged in sewn leather rather than metal, a chape on the scabbard is very unusual and the design is suspect for the late 12th century and the sword pommel with the inset cross is I think patterned off a 13th century example.
However overrall it is pretty good, I especially appreciate that the maille leggings are front-faced only and not complete tubes and that the sword belt is low-slung and tied with a thong. It should probably be white leather but you can't have everything.
7/10, solid effort with some nice details.
>>44346853
also technically it's already Christmas here so I can post this
>>44346885
How about this? Got this from a drawthread, story behind it is an Italian Knight from the late southern invasions by the Normans who looted some Byzantine armor.
>>44347076
I remember that guy. He made some good stuff.
>>44347166
He also did a Knight bearing my family's heraldry. :3
Cookie to anybody who knows the heraldry or why it has scallops.
>>44346806
Well, we are nearing the end so I'll wrap this up quickly.
Enclosed Helms.
Nasal helms with a flat top crop up in the late 12th century. While they do not deflect blows like the earlier nasal helms I posted, the sharp angles mean that any strike is stopped away from your actual head inside the helmet. Essentially they (along with copious padding) act as shock absorbers to keep you safe rather than as a deflection surface.
It is out these helmets that the Enclosed Helmet evolves. Unlike the earlier experiments with expanded facial protection which were in a tiny minority compared to plain old nasal helms the Enclosed Helm sticks and becomes very popular.
It shows up in the 1190s, probably. The earliest evidence I am aware of that is reliably dated is Richard I second Great Seal (1197). This places just after the 3rd Crusade so it is possible that it was devolped too late for that conflict. They begin to really get popular in the first and second decade of the 1200s.
Compared to later Great Helms, these have fairly minimal coverage around the base of the skull as can be seen on this picture from a French manuscript. The Massacre of the Innocents is a very popular scene to be illustrated in medieval Bibles and allows me to analyze armour styles and baby murder techniques through the ages. This design feature that leaves the base of the skull uncovered makes sense when you consider they evolved from Nasal helms, though expanding this coverage is one of the first major changes to great helms that occurs in the early-mid 13th century.
As with later Great Helms, the Enclosed Helm was probably often worn over a metal skullcap which we cover next.
After that it's just a quick word on Kettle Hats, any questions and then we are done.
>>44347196
A wild guess on my part would be that it has roots in the Holy Roman Empire, sometime between the 13th and 16th centuries. The scallop has links to Santiago de Compostela, specifically those who have gone there on pilgrimage.
>>44347196
Can't say I know the precise heraldry, but the scallop connection is surely St. James and the Santiago de Compostela pilgrimage.
This formed the Holy Trinity so to speak, along with Rome and Canterbury (for Thomas Becket, murdered earleir in the thread) as medieval pilgrimage hotspots.
>>44347196
>or why it has scallops.
Depending on if its Mediterranean, Gemanic or northern French, the symbol of st James of Compostella and Cologne, with its associated pilgrimage to spain, or, for the French and to a lesser extent, the English, of St Michael in France.
If dated after about 1460, potentially it could also be a marking signifying membership of the Ordre de Saint-Michel, for French nobility.
>>44347296
No actually, my family on my father's side has strong Anglo-Norman roots and probably formed as a mutation of the name William taken as a surname during the 13th Century.
I certainly love the colors. If I am a true male (I intend to contact the College of Arms in London to see if it can be researched), my knightly ancestors had good tastes in color.
>>44347230
I would just add a couple of points about Enclosed Helms.
The first is that as you can I see on the image I posted, the eye slits are relatively long, to make sure vision is not comprosed too much.
The second, that unlike the faceplates we saw earlier, these are "proper" visors that conceal the face completely.
Also the foremost figure in this picture >>44340701 is wearing a style of helmet that pairs a visor with a domed helm of spangen construction. I won't nitpick the myriad of flaws in the picture but I will say I am investigating claims that this style of helmet is based off a french painting.
There is a similar helmet from a statue on a french(?) cathedral but I am afraid I cannot find right now. So it may or may not be another experiment in faceplates from the late 12th century and if real would be notable for its use of a "complete" visor.
>>44347464
*true male heir, not a fitz.
>>44347554
I've got a shitload of Enclosed Helm art as I love the 12th and 13th centuries.
>>44347639
>>44347681
>>44347557
Fitz as a sign of bastardy is a Renaissance thing, started by Henry VIII though popularised by the prolific Charles II.
In the Norman and Anglo-Norman period it just meant "son of" and was a common form of surname among "new men" who came into power and suddenly had need of a surname. Interestingly unlike most patronymics it was usually adopted as a surname immediately.
That is to say that Roger becomes Roger Fitzwilliam. However his son is Hugh FitzWilliam as that is now his surname rather than being Hugh Fitz Roger and his son Tancred FitzHugh.
Exceptions of course apply.
>>44347712
>>44347731
>>44347760
>>44347794
LIONHEART!
LIONHEART!
LIONHEART!
>>44347839
>>44347230
Skullcaps, or "secrets" (because the helmet is hidden, geddit?) were worn underneath a maille coif. These are sometimes called cervellieres, though this probably actually refers to a piece of helmet strapping rather than a metal skullcap.
Probably.
We know for certain that metal skullcaps under maille were used in the 13th century. However the Macieowski Bible (c.1255) is the first time we have solid proof for their use. This image shows a knight with his coif pulled back with the skullcap clearly visible.
However it becomes common for knights to be depicted wearing only their maille coif (which in this period was integral to the hauberk rather than a seperate garment) as head protection in the second half of the 12th century.
Further, in many of these illustrations there is distinctive "bulge" around the head. This might just be the natural look of a fitted coif, but in some cases at least it certainly appears that a knight is wearing a rounded metal skullcap underneath.
A "cap of iron" is also mentioned in the Assize of Arms 1181, as the expected headgear of freemen who do not meet the wealth bracket for more expensive armour. This might indicate the use of skullcaps as stand-alone armour for the less wealthy though it might also refer to a kettlehat.
However, it does appear likely that knights of the later 12th century wore skullcaps underneath thier maille as an alternative to a helmet and this was seen as a "complete" and viable form of head protection, or perhaps just maille on its own. This can be said with much more certainity to be the case by the early 13th century.
It also seems likely that as in later centuries such skullcaps underneath a maille coif were used alongside Enclosed Helms and more developed great helms as they appeared.
This is conjecture but plausible given the artistic evidence.
>>44347908
Kettlehats or Chapels de Fer (Hat of Iron).
We know these, and some of use (looking at you Hungarian) love them to bits.
Opinion is that these kinds of helmets were probably in use in the 12th century. Compared to later examples they probably had fairly narrow brims and were more like a "rounded oblong" rather than circular in form.
However I must confess to not knowing a great deal about kettlehats of the 12th century. Most of the illustrations or early examples are 13th century rather than 12th.
I'll get around to looking at them in greater detail hopefully in the coming year. I'd appreciate if anyone had any solid leads they could throw my way.
The image is again taken from the Macieowski Bible for lack of solid 12th century art. You can also see the use of a skullcap by an umailled man sitting on the wagon.
And that is about it for helmets of the 12th century. Hope that was informative and I'll stick around a little while for questions or covering anything people would like a little more detail on.
>>44347908
They were also worn under great helms, and were extremely useful as you CAN cut through a great helm (more like crush) with bloody great big axes. The skullcap however will end up saving your life, if albeit leaving you concussed.
>>44348143
I think I did mention that, but yes you are right.
One advantage of a skullcap in combination with the Enclosed Helm is unlike larger helms you can wear them both together.
Later Great Helms allowed you wear a full 14th century bascinet underneath, but none of the helmet styles of the 12th and early 13th centuries would fit under an early Enclosed Helm.
You also have advantage that should you decide to ditch the Enclosed Helm that a skullcap and maille is more than adequate to see you through a melee without having to change helms mid battle.
>>44347196
I would also guess that your family may have some connection to the order of Santiago?
Please, share more. I want to know now!
>>44348263
You can also chain it to your person and simply flip it off when not needed.
>>44348328
No, at some point a member of the English family decided to take a pilgrimage to Spain and added the scallops to the heraldry after its conclusion.
Another hint, one of them saved Charles II's life from Cromwell.
>>44348349
This was of course a feature of later Great Helms, but I am not aware of any evidence for it during the 12th or first half of the 13 century.
However, a couple of conical nasal helms do have hooks at the end of the nose guard. This one here is the Augsburger helm from Germany.
Several other surving nasal helms also supposedly had hooks though many have been since lost or seperated from the helmet.
Some theories have them as a place to anchor your ventail flap on the coif, though this seems rather unwieldy and an experiment done by a friend was not a success.
It seems more likely they allowed the helmet to be carried more easily, perhaps hooking onto attachment point on a saddle with rope or a chain.
>>44347554
However, I'd say it's reasonable to assume, especially in a medieval-fantasy setting, that an enclosed or face-plated spangenhelm could exist
>>44338948
Is that Knyght Errant, as in the guy from the youtube channel? Looks similar to his armor. He's a pretty based dude.
>>44341600
According to the osprey that came from, yes. Not sure about the source though, haven't found any historical reference to leather chest pieces.
>>44348612
It is not impossible certainly, though what was possible and what actually was done are two rather seperate things.
A domed helmet with a visor makes sense beacuse as I have shown there was a trend of experimenting with adding faceplates to existing helmet types. And a complete visor is more plausible for that type as domed helmets become popular again only a decade or two prior to proper enclosed helms appearing.
However it remains to be proven if a complete visor was used on the example in question or whether the original is more like the Spoleto helm and much more open than modern imitations.
The spangen issue is another matter. Spangen construction does appear to still be in use in the 12th century. However it was rather uncommon compared to the more advanced single piece construction.
Why would a knight (for the wearer of a faceplate helm is a fully armoured man-at-arms invariably) want a spangen construction when single peice domed helmets are exceedingly common?
It might be that the original (if it exists) was actually single piece but Osprey/modern reproduction designers jazzed it up as spangen construction looks quite funky to the modern eye. As we have seen with the Spoleto helm changes are often made to the design to sell better.
Without looking at the source it's impossible to tell.
So yes, it could well exist. It might even have done so. But it is slightly odd for a number of reasons.
Now a fantasy culture might come up with such as thing, especially if they had not perfected single-piece helmets and only used spangen types. However fantasy is fantasy and there is enough trouble in trying to understand what was done on our planet.
Incidentally this is what a spangen helm should actually look like. 99% of modern versions are taken after a single illustration from a 1920s "reconstruction".
>>44349057
This is the offending article.
>>44339937
What are these from?
>>44349237
Osprey, though don't take anything you find in them as gospel. They like to include all sorts of tenous supposition and present it as fact. Or just plain old making stuff up.
Treating them as anything beyond a gateway drug into history is a mistake.
12th and 13th centuries, best centuries.
Everything comes down to cool hats.
>>44338918
> GOING TILL ALL THE FOLDERS ARE EMPTIED!
....Yeah, not gonna happen.
In other news, my buddy recently got that engraved breastplate and spaulders from Armstreet, and they are GORGEOUS.
>>44340238
>>44340249
....Are you our larpfag Strayan?
>>44340444
Short answer: Practice and eyeballing measurements, like most smiths today still do. Industrial application is a whole nother ball of wax.
>>44340624
I promise you, there is a brig or breastplate under the surcote in this pic.
>>44340647
> full breastplates were a late middle ages thing
> cast a full breastplate out of a single piece of metal
Nigga, you what? You don't cast steel (and they cast bronze plates in the bronze age), and you start seeing breastplats in the late 1200's
>>44340652
Dent your helmet on to your head, and probably concuss/kill you. Mass x Acceleration / surface area = dead
>>44340960
Unf. that detail shot.
>>44340671
It did not have full plate like you see later, but yes, they had the beginnings of plate. Ablative plates, including polyens, bracers, rearebraces, greaves and even discoid breastplates were seen pointed to maille. Its expensive, but it did exist as early as the first crusade.
Also, the crusades covers hundreds of years. WHICH crusade?
>>44341073
Unf. Burgundy had some sexy stuff. Shame about their whole country being absorbed.
>>44341354
Why would that be terrifying? I see that two to three times a week.
>>44341521
>Thou should decline on seconds, for thou shalt need armour for a multitude of chins!
>>44341600
>>44348774
That, or leather covered plates. The Osprey book mentions that we've found proof of both.
>>44342184
Burgundian fluted Chappel Du Fer.
>>44342295
Kettlehats are for peasants and heretics. Sallet master race.
>>44342347
>>44342447
>>44344026
A morion is just a crested chappel du fer. Pic related.
>>44344440
>>44344468
>>44344701
Type 4 topfhelm
>>44346539
13thC Scots looked much like 12thC English. I am not being a dick either.
>>44349695
>Kettlehats are for peasants and heretics. Sallet master race.
spoken like a true plebs
>>44346608
Pretty accurate, and i'd argue with >>44346885
As the Italians and Phyringians loved them some tinned brass shield edging, and the sword is fairly generic and plausible.
>>44346897
I counter!
>>44347076
>>44347166
>>44347196
The proportions, anatomy and understanding of armour mechanics is wonky as fuck. Especially >>44347166. This one is plain weird and the armour makes no sense.
>>44349809
Fuck. Pic got ate
>>44349796
Whatever, prole.
>>44349869
>>44349929
>>44349991
>>44349057
>>44349186
You make some good points, m8, and I wanna hear more of your armour knowledge
>>44349869
I don't know why...but he looks like he's super short....like a gnome or Dorf....
>>44350573
Is this a bad thing?
>>44350659
>>44350659
I heard that short people are closer to hell
>>44341040
Which One? VII? VIII?
Any of you larpfags know where I can get pic related size hauberk for cheap? Not for reenactment, just looking cool at a medieval fair.
>>44349695
Yes i am strayan larpfag, though currently only hemafag..
My boss (i work in a gym) gives me so much shit for larping because i do hema but the dark secret is i actually want to larp too..
Also, do battle with me thou stunted shite, there is nothing wrong with kettle hats.
>>44351051
ebay/amazon basically a lot of cheap chainmail comes from India where they make it piss cheap and sell it on the mentioned sites. They aren't the best thing ever but good for larping, showing off a little.
>>44351051
Seconding, I came here to be Norman and where mail, but I'm all out of mail.
Well technically I have mail as I'm making my own but..
>>44351149
What about actual online shops instead of general internet stores like amazon? I know Allbeststuff makes fantastic reproductions of 13th Century helmets seen in the Morgan Bible.
>>44351353
it will be more expensive. If all you use it for renfairs and/or larps then the ones from India is the most cost effective, well with the exception if you can get a second hand one. Then again it's obviously will be butted mail so there is that.
>>44338918
>>44351651
HNNNGH
I need that spoleto helm.
>>44347557
Anon. As time goes on and families expand, the chances of being the direct heir go down. Exponentially. I wouldn't get your hopes up. I was going to get in touch with the college, but decided it probably wasn't even worth the trouble. My history muddies some time during the an Gorta Mór, more commonly known as the Irish Potato Famine, at least, according to my research, which places my roots south of Lough Neagh. I could apply with the Genealogical Office of Ireland and get myself a coat of arms, since I can prove that I'm Irish (almost as Irish as an American can get!), but that would cost over 4800 dollars. Come to think of it, I could just start putting away. Bah. I'm rambling. Good luck, man!
>>44350750
How do you think he met Krampus?
>>44351051
Define "cheap"
>>44351079
Just checking. Its adorable thinking of you as a barbarian, bro
>>44341090
Aw man, that's pretty fucking sick.
>>44351746
Assuming that you refer to the one on the left- those helmets are really hard to find, but they are fantastic to wear. The faceplate curves away from the face allowing for easy breathing and some low peripheral vision, and some types have the plate come low enough to protect the neck too like a Corinthian. The high peak is awesome too, deflects blows really nicely
>>44351823
Well as it wouldn't be for actual sparring (I'd want a shitload of disposable income before I could get into that), something like $300 or less. Not even steel as it would be just to show off, aluminum might work for that.
Blued steel armour is the sexiest goddamn thing ever
>>44351746
>Spoleto
>>44351746
>>44352023
Ive heard so many types of name for that helm
Duckface, Norman Transitional, Italian Transitional, Byzantine, Phyrigian halfhelm
>>44352023
>Not liking nasal faceplates
>>44351929
On close out. Butted, but flat ring so it looks better. http://kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=SNC247ZP&name=Chainmail+Hauberk+-+Flat+Butted+Mild+Steel+-+Close+Out
>>44352302
Hot damn man, not to mention it's from a site I can trust. I've heard good things about Cult of Athena, and Allbeststuff too, but Allbeststuff I've heard can fuckup sometimes.
Grazie.
Prego!
>>44352478
Fukken nice.
>>44352478
Now I just have to decide whether or not I want a near complete replica of 12th Century armor or a new hand-made gaming rig. Decisions decisions. ;_;
>>44352562
Gaming rigs become obsolete and don't let you have adventures.
Get armoured, peasant!
>>44352562
> 12th Century
> Peaked greathelm
> Coat of plates
> Bascinet
Thats 13th century dude, after 1250 at the very earliest as that is the time when coats of plate start to appear
>>44352752
Pic \even says its early 14th in the corner.
>>44352752
>Not paying attention to the discussion.
Reading comprehension, 3/10.
>>44352868
He's talking about the photo's filename, which say's 12th.
>>44355230
>>44355248
>>44338918
got hq historical armor from /hr/, do someone want it?
>>44355531
got any more?
>>44352562
Its rather easy to make a 14th century kit which is was you has posted.
Visby coat of plates..I could post some images of some of the armor I have made.
>>44355619
lots, problem is that i'm working right now but i can drop with somewhat consistence
>>44356582
>>44355619
also everything is historical, i wish i'd have something german with a more fantasy looking
>>44356593
>>44356620
i don't know why but i can't upload horse or elephant armor
>>44356770
>>44356855
>>44347908
Thank you for the history lesson. It's always a pleasure to read posts like yours, sir.
>>44356957
>>44357110
what is this? leather?
>>44357141
>>44357147
>what is this? leather?
or linthorax.
I DO love the design.
>>44357164
My language doesn't even have a word for "linothorax"
>>44357147
>>44357393
It has words for linen and breastplate right?
>>44357570
>>44357110
This is the best shit ever
>small cape
>high collar
>looks like an adaption of the back screens that were in use all across Siberia
>>44357862
we do have for linen and cuirass but not really for breastplate, we call it like "plate cuirass" or "breast armor"
>>44358924
I assume its not as simple as say German where you can just smash words together to get Der Leinenkürass.
And damn, image limit.
>>44359016
i speak portuguese, we can't do that, but we can give characteristics to things using "de", that in this context means something like "made of", so i can say "peça de peito de aço"(piece for the chest made of steel) or "Couraça de linho"(cuirass made of linen). We can say what we want to but its not a good language to talk about armor and weapons, mostly we(rpg players) use english terms like "chainmail" and "plate armor" to talk about armor because we have shitty names,
>>44359016
New Thread? i can keep dumping >>44358924
>>44340899
What's the purpose of the cloth turban?
>>44360051
Swag.
>>44340899
Why wear a turban on your helm?
>>44360051
>>44360185
Less direct sunlight on your metal bits maybe?
Googling isn't at all helpful.
>>44359912
Sure, got plenty more here.
>>44360185
>>44360051
first of all sun doesn't shine on the metal directly this way it doens't heat it that much, which is a good thing if you go on a crusade in bumfuckistan next to the desert.
Secondly you can drench it in water which also cools you by evaporation.
Thirdly, it's stylish as fuck (this is the most important thing here)
>>44359912
>>44360324
well it if noone started one yet I can do it, it's christmas eve an not like I have anything better to do
>>44360185
same reason hospitalers used to wear black cloth over their armor, protect then from the sun, armor heats and transfer heat much better than cloth
>>44360344
waiting for it
>>44360344
scatch that, someone already started a new one but forgot to mention it here
>>44359177
